Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[iamkeith]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 10:19:36 AM UTC-7 M Talley wrote:

> Just thinking out loud here . . .
> Since these new 42mm tire-width-non-canti bikes are in the works, wouldn't 
> it be nice if a better long reach brake were also in development? 



I'm probably wrong, but my first suspicion was that they're doing this 
specifically to create a market for the tektro 559.  Both that brake and 
the paul racer WERE developed specifically for Rivendell, so perhaps they 
feel obligated.  Grant has often said "buy something if you appreciate it, 
or it might not be around when you want it " or something to that effect.  
I get that.

I  have one of each (tektro and paul).  I don't have as strong negative 
feelings against them as others do, but I always thought the chief 
complaint was poor leverage and stopping power - more than lack of quality 
or ease of wheel removal.  

For me, it's kind of the whole package:  Cantis are stronger, better 
looking (subjective), accommodate fenders better, are friendlier for fat or 
knobby tires, and are easier to fine tune adjustment (maybe subjective 
again).  I know that not everybody has the same needs as me though.

The other thought I had was that the somewhat awkward cable routing - 
necessitated by the curved/dropped top tube - might have had something to 
do with the decision to ditch cantis in the case of the charlie. But, as 
others have pointed out, there are tidy ways to solve that. And linear pull 
brakes.

 

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[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[Jeffrey Arita]

Well, I gotta say, this topic (the humble bearing) can be one heckuva 
rabbit hole!  John, this is likely why your Chris King's are probably still 
going strong - go here , scroll 
down to "Our Bearings" and watch CK's video.

CK manufacture their own sealed angular contact bearings.  Amazing since CK 
can then control each and every aspect of all of their components.  Makes 
complete sense.

It appears that WI has partnered with Enduro Bearings.

It would be an interesting exercise to convert from radial to angular 
contact bearings - yet another project!  I have to say, I'm hesitant to try 
since I'd likely have to buy or borrow more drifts and tools.

I recently serviced my rear hub for my Rambouillet (Shimano Ultegra 
FH-6500).  I think that hub was introduced around 2002-2003 or so.  I 
bought the Ram from a fellow RBW person on this forum and it was ridden 
well.  After disassembling the hub it was in very good condition.  I 
cleaned out the cup and cones and used Shimano's "Premium" grease and it 
buttoned up nicely.  Amazing longevity.   Those cup and cone angular 
contact bearings last a long time. 

Best regards, 

Jeff
Claremont, CA  






On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 5:03:46 PM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote:

> I agree- a very interesting discussion. Regarding my hub, it spins 
> beautifully and so I'll live with the quirky radial bearing play. Out of 
> curiosity, the bearings are ABEC 6902. Does this mean if I wanted one day 
> to replace them with angular bearings I would go with 7902s? Seems logical, 
> but until yesterday I had no idea bearings came in other flavors. 
>
> On a side note, I have some 25-year-old Chris King hubs that run 
> beautifully with no play. Would these contain angular bearings or just 
> really good radial bearings like the Phils?
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 7:38:22 AM UTC+9 Nick Payne wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, 27 January 2022 at 6:36:02 am UTC+11 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I remember in the very early years of Riv that Grant mentioned Bullseye 
>>> hubs do this and to basically ignore it. Until I've done a 
>>> *lot *more riding..ignore it I shall. 
>>>
>>
>> I have some Bullseye hubs that are now almost 40 years old, and they have 
>> exhibited this play since new, and still exhibit it to much the same 
>> degree. I replace the 6001 bearings in them every few years. There is much 
>> the same play in the Bullseye roller bearing bottom brackets, of which I 
>> still have a couple in use. If you grab the crankarms and waggle them, some 
>> small amount of play can be detected, and could be detected even when the 
>> BBs were brand new.
>>
>> Of the cartridge bearing hubs that I have, only the White Industries and 
>> Onyx hubs have adjusting collars that would allow for correct preload to be 
>> set if the deep groove radial bearings were replaced with angular contact 
>> bearings.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Interesting front (or rear) rack from Tumbleweed Bikes

[rltilley]

The hardware is pretty good and can be moved around to be able to fit most 
mounts. Here’s my T-Rack mounted to the front barrel braze-ons on my fork. Note 
that the fork here is 135 mm spaced so wider than most.

https://roberttilley.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Tumbleweed-Prospector/i-pFbrBgK/A

Here’s a photo showing the rear of the bike with a mini pannier rack mounted 
using the longer stays:

https://roberttilley.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Tumbleweed-Prospector/i-C2HdVRP/A

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 8:43 AM, Minh  wrote:
> 
> is top of fork crown the only mounting option?  is that common enough on 
> forks that this rack would be compatible with enough bikes?  i like the 
> modularity with the different mounting points, even if it looks a little too 
> cobbled together (IMO)
> 
>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 9:02:27 AM UTC-5 philipr...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>> +1 on the T-Rack on my Kona ULTD bikepacking rig. Very nice piece of kit.
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:55:38 AM UTC-6 pbsm...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I've got a T Rack on my bike packing bike for a anything Cage and Ortlieb 
>>> fork pack. Also strap a dry bag to the top. Can't believe there are not 
>>> more racks with 3 packs on them available in the market. 
>>> 
>>> Pat DC
>>> 
 On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:33:02 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
 Very interesting that Riv connection. I was very tempted to get the Mini 
 Pannier also but had a store credit with Riv so ordered the Shiny rear. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 1:26 AM, rlti...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
> I run their T-Rack on the front and Mini Pannier Rack on the rear of my 
> bikepacking bike. Very functional racks since they have the anything cage 
> mounts as well as braze-on’s for mounting lights.
 
> 
> Daniel from Tumbleweed worked for Riv at one time and that had some 
> influence on the bikes he offers now.
> 
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:33 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>>> 
>> This one is not a svelte Nitto or other shiny rack. But it is a bit 
>> unique in that the vertical legs have the three threaded boss mounts to 
>> accept anything / manything cages or these OvejaNegra Bootlegger direct 
>> mount bags. It can also take some mini panniers. It is very easy to 
>> mount and is very well made. I plan to mount a Wald 137 basket and 
>> utilize a Tanglefoot Cycles Fifth Season Squall basket bag. Pics to 
>> follow...
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[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[John Rinker]

I agree- a very interesting discussion. Regarding my hub, it spins 
beautifully and so I'll live with the quirky radial bearing play. Out of 
curiosity, the bearings are ABEC 6902. Does this mean if I wanted one day 
to replace them with angular bearings I would go with 7902s? Seems logical, 
but until yesterday I had no idea bearings came in other flavors. 

On a side note, I have some 25-year-old Chris King hubs that run 
beautifully with no play. Would these contain angular bearings or just 
really good radial bearings like the Phils?

Cheers,
John

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 7:38:22 AM UTC+9 Nick Payne wrote:

> On Thursday, 27 January 2022 at 6:36:02 am UTC+11 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I remember in the very early years of Riv that Grant mentioned Bullseye 
>> hubs do this and to basically ignore it. Until I've done a 
>> *lot *more riding..ignore it I shall. 
>>
>
> I have some Bullseye hubs that are now almost 40 years old, and they have 
> exhibited this play since new, and still exhibit it to much the same 
> degree. I replace the 6001 bearings in them every few years. There is much 
> the same play in the Bullseye roller bearing bottom brackets, of which I 
> still have a couple in use. If you grab the crankarms and waggle them, some 
> small amount of play can be detected, and could be detected even when the 
> BBs were brand new.
>
> Of the cartridge bearing hubs that I have, only the White Industries and 
> Onyx hubs have adjusting collars that would allow for correct preload to be 
> set if the deep groove radial bearings were replaced with angular contact 
> bearings.
>
> Nick
>

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[RBW] Re: Onyx hubs from Rivendell in 135 rim brake flavor

[Nick Payne]

>From looking at the Riv website, they show the newer model Onyx Vesper 
hubs, which are lighter and have smaller narrower sprags than their 
original models. However, I have seen a few messages on various MTB forums 
from users who have had problems with these newer hubs. I've had a pair of 
the older model hubs for several years, and no problems with them.

I believe that Onyz do still sell the original model hub as well as the new 
one.

Nick

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[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[Nick Payne]

On Thursday, 27 January 2022 at 6:36:02 am UTC+11 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I remember in the very early years of Riv that Grant mentioned Bullseye 
> hubs do this and to basically ignore it. Until I've done a 
> *lot *more riding..ignore it I shall. 
>

I have some Bullseye hubs that are now almost 40 years old, and they have 
exhibited this play since new, and still exhibit it to much the same 
degree. I replace the 6001 bearings in them every few years. There is much 
the same play in the Bullseye roller bearing bottom brackets, of which I 
still have a couple in use. If you grab the crankarms and waggle them, some 
small amount of play can be detected, and could be detected even when the 
BBs were brand new.

Of the cartridge bearing hubs that I have, only the White Industries and 
Onyx hubs have adjusting collars that would allow for correct preload to be 
set if the deep groove radial bearings were replaced with angular contact 
bearings.

Nick

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[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[brendonoid]

I have recently purchased an MI5 hub that I haven't laced yet and now im 
feeling like I shouldn't have spent the money? My 10 year old Phil Wood 
tourings don't have any play at all. The axle set up on the Phils 'pre 
loads' the bearings though you'd think that would loosen after thousands of 
kms. I normally steer clear of cartridge bearings but old shimano hubs have 
gotten so expensive lately that I thought I'd give the White's a go...
This is an interesting thread.

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Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, John. As a matter of fact, having just read that Kucharik is
selling off stock and will close down after it's all gone, I ordered one of
their LS wool full zip jerseys, $136 including shipping and $6 tip for
staff. It's green, the only color, while I'd prefer dark red or blue, but
for that price I'm not complaining.

Y'all might want to head over to the site.

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 11:49 AM JohnS  wrote:

> About #2, found this nice Merino wool outer layer with rear pockets at
> Search & State (by way of Radavist). Not cheap at $215, but what wool
> garment is???
>
> https://searchandstate.com/products/long-sleeve-merino-ranger/#
>
> Good luck,
> JohnS
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[Joe Bernard]

Huh, I've learned a new thing. The MI5 on my custom is a year old and not 
ridden hard, I grabbed the tire and wiggled and there's at least a mm or 
two of play in mine, too. I remember in the very early years of Riv that 
Grant mentioned Bullseye hubs do this and to basically ignore it. Until 
I've done a 
*lot *more riding..ignore it I shall. 
On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 3:07:46 AM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote:

> Thank you, Garth! What an education this is, and I really appreciate the 
> time and effort you've put into helping me understand this. 
>
> As for how much play, if I had to guess I'd say that when I grab my wheel 
> at the tire a move it laterally to test for play there's maybe a 1-2mm 
> shift. Maybe? I don't notice it when I'm riding. Then again, I'm not even 
> sure what I would be noticing if the wheel were flopping around as I ride. 
>
> However, I have noticed of late that sometimes when I'm braking in a 
> corner there's a little bit of a shriek from the rear rim. This is, in 
> fact, what got me thinking about the play again after coming to terms with 
> it for some time. Could be just an improperly adjusted brake pad, but I did 
> just change them (salmon thinlines), set them up properly, and still a 
> little noise while cornering. Somehow I'm imagining the angle of contact 
> between the brake pad and the rim changes slightly while in a corner due to 
> the play in the hub, and this is what's causing the noise. But, I'm 
> certainly not knowledgeable enough for this to be anything but an 
> hypothesis. 
>
> I'm looking forward to investigating the RC vs AC bearings. In the 
> meantime, my take-away from your note is that as long as I have radial 
> bearings I should expect some play in the hub when off the bike.
>
> Thanks again!
> John
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 6:22:54 PM UTC+9 Garth wrote:
>
>> John, I know it's impossible to put into words how much play you are 
>> experiencing, but if it helps at all many cartridge bearing hub with radial 
>> type bearings exhibit a small amount of lateral play. It's not enough to 
>> notice when riding or braking, only when you're off the bike and wiggle the 
>> rim. Radial type cartridges are preloaded and nonadjustable. While I see WI 
>> shows the end being adjustable, other that to snug up the end I don't see 
>> any other benefit to it. If the bearings were angular contact type then yes 
>> it could be adjusted. As I was writing this I was curious, and sure, that 
>> someone has replaced their outermost radial bearings with AC type, and sure 
>> enough I found this thread :  
>> https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1074471-swap-radial-cartridge-angular-contact-bearings.html
>>
>> The relevant reply after many "whys and no you can'ts" from people who 
>> have not done it, is #15 ... and watch the video contained in reply #19 for 
>> a brief on the differences between radial and AC cartridge bearings. 
>>
>>
>> *Thanks*
>>
>> *I posed this question to my wheel builder, Jude at Sugar, and here is 
>> what she said about using AC bearings with my White T11 hub:*
>>
>> *Yes, it would be ideal to have angular contact bearings as the outermost 
>> bearings in the hub. White Industries doesn't do this as a stock option 
>> because it's a lot of bearings for them to manage in inventory. But, as we 
>> replace bearings here, we use angular contact bearings which will require 
>> an adjustment.*
>>
>> *Then I asked about the preload issue and her response was:*
>>
>> *The locking collar on the non-drive side is actually an adjusting 
>> collar.*
>>
>> * So you'll lock down the collar just until the play disappears which is 
>> much like doing the bearing adjustment but you will have to be aware of any 
>> play in your wheel.So I guess its possible but not clear why its ideal on 
>> the outermost bearings.*
>>   
>> 
>>
>> The answer to "why" would be longevity of the bearings and the ability to 
>> remove any play. You just have to be aware of your preload, like on loose 
>> ball hubs. 
>>
>> Yay ! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 1:28:17 AM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote:
>>
>>> Garth and Jeffrey,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for your kind replies. Yes, this was my first course 
>>> of action when the problem first arose, and while WI contacts at the time 
>>> were attentive and wished to help, I recall we didn't really come to a 
>>> solution. I do have a conversation in the wings with another knowledgeable 
>>> fellow, so I'll see where this one takes me. I contact WI again if 
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> S.Greco, I'll keep you informed should my issue be resolved. 
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:47:39 PM UTC+9 S. Greco wrote:
>>>
 I have this same issue with one of my M15 hubs. Please post if you get 
 a solid answer. 
 My LBS recommended new bearings which I bought and installed, but it 
 did not fix the issue.

Re: [RBW] Best grocery pannier? Nice lightweight wool cycling "jacket" or full-zip mid-weight jersey?

[JohnS]

About #2, found this nice Merino wool outer layer with rear pockets at 
Search & State (by way of Radavist). Not cheap at $215, but what wool 
garment is???

https://searchandstate.com/products/long-sleeve-merino-ranger/#

Good luck,
JohnS

On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 4:32:09 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Joyce and Turnip: Thank you. Joyce, I see that the Seattle CL offer is 
> red, at least, as far as I can judge from my monitor and with my 
> color-vision-deprived eyes. If I were closer I might well grasp. Too bad 
> I', 1,500 miles away.
>
> In fact. I'm not in the market just now, but I may well be in the market 
> in a few months, and this Ortlieb shopping-specific design is the best I've 
> looked at; and apparently it comes in red, which I favor for the 
> Rivendel-esque* Sage Green frame it would be used on. 
>
> *The bike is the Matthews 2:1, but it's a Riv clone+ which also copies 
> pretty closely with its powdercoat the wonderful Sage Green (with 
> lovely Cream Accents) Joe Bell paint of the 2003 exemplar. The Sage Green 
> color is (*I* think) very well set off by red accents in bar tape and 
> panniers.
>
> + Copied angles and lengths, and the powdercoat is very similar tho' 
> without the cream accents; but saved from plagiarism and (one hopes) 
> obloquy because standard gauge / thinnish-wall 531, and narrow 118 mm OL to 
> accommodate both 114  and 120 OL hubs -- SA hub gear and fixed gear drive 
> wheels -- plus various odd housing stops for the SA shifter bits, and 
> oddball internal dyno-wire routing, weird custom rack attachments, etc etc.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 1:09 PM JAS  wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>> Here's an Ortlieb shopper I spotted this morning on the Seattle 
>> Craigslist:
>>
>> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bop/d/bellevue-ortlieb-waterproof-bike-basket/7436299979.html
>>
>> --Joyce
>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Pat; this is the one. REI is out and I don't see it on other 
>>> sites, but I'll keep looking.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 6:33 AM Pat Smith  wrote:
>>>
 Love my ortlieb bike shopper. Much better than a back roller for 
 groceries. It used to come in red. I've got one in red

 https://www.rei.com/product/885305/ortlieb-bike-shopper-pannier-single

 Pat in DC

 On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:03:39 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Eric; and those come in red, too!
>
> I want something with a flap and something that can be adapted to an 
> Ortlieb or Arkle-type "clamp" mounting system and be offset to the rear 
> by 
> about 3". I've owned at least 2 different grocery panniers of this 
> design, 
> and they work well on smooth unobstructed routes, but I've lost one such 
> similar pannier when riding on a dirt road; either fell off on a bump, or 
> perhaps was scraped off when I went through some path entry barriers. 
> (Fortunately I had nothing particularly valuable in the pannier at the 
> time.)
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> Forgive me if these don't check all of your boxes, I don't have that 
>> much processing power. But check 'em out! 
>>
>> https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP
>>
> -- 

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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[lconley]

Rene Herse sells the brakes with the Mafac backing plate already, I think 
it adds $25 per brake.
I have the Rene Herse braze-on center-pull brakes on my Rivendell Custom - 
massive clearance around the 650B x 48 Switchback Hill tires.
One thing though, I had to replace the brake shoes because the Rene Herse 
shoes were way too wide for the Velocity Quill rim braking surface.

You know, its funny that I never hit anything or went off the road back in 
the 70's, 80's, 90's, etc. because the Weinmann center pull brakes on my 
P-15 Touring Paramount didn't work well enough. I did upgrade to the finned 
Matthauser pads (ooh-aah) at one point though. You could adjust the brake 
toe-in by twisting the brake arms with a crescent wrench. I think that 
people have incredibly high expectations for brakes these days.

Laing
Delray Beach FL

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 12:19:36 PM UTC-5 M Talley wrote:

> Just thinking out loud here . . .
> Since these new 42mm tire-width-non-canti bikes are in the works, wouldn't 
> it be nice if a better long reach brake were also in development? Before 
> the Paul Component Racer ended production I watched a few auctions that 
> gave me reason to pause. One stated the reason for selling Paul's was the 
> inability to get any tire larger than 38mm "released" without letting out 
> air. I also saw a modified Paul Racer sell. The lobe-shape section at the 
> arm end where the brake pads attach was filed flat. The stated reason was 
> it "interfered" with spacing the pads for a wider-section rim. 
>
> Before going all-in on disc brake bikes it looks like Velo Orange had 
> prototyped a possible solution - attached image. It looks like a higher 
> quality maybe Gran Cru level brake. It clearly has lots of reach and a 
> simple cable release for potentially opening wider.
>
> There is room for a pricier product. The 40-50 year old design of Dia 
> Compe center pulls aren't a worthwhile up-spec. Is Rene Herse is 'THE' 
> solution to up-market long reach brakes (oh, and one would need to find a 
> set of Mafac Raid back plates)?  I'd sign a petition - Paul, please re-tool 
> the Racer for 42mm tires or Rivendell and Merry Sales-Soma-IRD, please make 
> a more-robust-than-Tektro-559 bolt-on long reach brake.
> Mark
> [image: RAD_7365-prototype vo brake.jpg]
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 12:09:08 PM UTC-5 Chris Halasz wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering if the new Roadini extended its chainstays to accommodate 
>> for the larger tire size. 
>>
>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 6:49:26 AM UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Honestly with the less swoopy top tube and sidepulls there isn't as much 
>>> different than the current Roadini beyond a longer wheelbase.  And if the 
>>> point is to have albastache or drops then I would think the Roadini would 
>>> be a touch better. I am sure the new Gallop will be good and people will 
>>> buy it but I agree with @iamkeith that the previous design was the perfect 
>>> Riv styled road bike.  Hopefully someone here got one of them. They did 
>>> sell fast.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:08:19 AM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:30:32 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Missed it! Probably wouldn't have jumped anyway - I'm getting a strong 
> itch for a Platy - but it's cool!
>
> Joe Bernard
>
>
 It must have lasted all of 3 minutes.  I clicked on the link the moment 
 I saw the email update, but it was already gone.  Probably for the best 
 because it would have looked awfully silly sitting next to my orange 
 susie.  Congratulations to whoever got it.

 Without wanting to "pile on,"  i do feel compelled to point out that 
 this bike had become an instant holy grail, the moment they decided to 
 switch to caliper brakes.  I'm sure the production Charlie will be a good 
 bike and that they'll sell whatever they make.  But, for people like me 
 who 
 already own caliper-equipped, roadish bikes that are otherwise perfectly 
 adequate, a charlie with canti brakes had just enough "extra" going for it 
 to interest me.  With caliper brakes, I'll probably just double down on 
 the 
 Saluki and Ram, and deny myself the joys of the longer bike yet again.  
 First world problem if there ever was one.


  

> On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 1:52:05 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Joe, you need that Stainless Steel Clem!
>> Doug
>>
>> On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:04:44 PM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> The prototype is for sale on the Riv site. $2k complete, 57cm. If it 
>>> were a 60cm I would have bought it.
>>>
>>> I did some powerpoint measurements and estimate the seat height in 
>>> the photo to be 30.6", FWIW.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 10:38 AM Pancake  wrote:
>>>
 I was excited for a Charles H Gallop too, but no 

[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[Jeffrey Arita]

FWIW: I bought a *very *well-used DTSwiss wheelset (240S hubs) a bit ago.  
The guy I bought the wheelset from is a bikepacker and he really rode those 
wheels (good for him).

I re-laced the rear hub to my rim of choice and built it up into a complete 
wheel.after I installed it there was definitely lateral play: with the 
wheel/tire on the bike, bike on the ground, grab the tire between the thumb 
and index finger and move side to side.  Definitely a perceptible bit of 
play both ways.

Apparently this issue is fairly well known with DTSwiss 240S hubs (I found 
out after buying the wheelset of course).  The inner driveside bearing 
takes the most beating and should be checked and replaced.  So, it 
looks like I will be taking that rear hub apart.

As an aside, I also have an old-ish Shimano FH-3500 hub (Sora).  It has 
regular cup & cone bearings and it is like a Timex: it takes a beating and 
keeps on ticking.

Jeff


On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:28:17 PM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote:

> Garth and Jeffrey,
>
> Thank you very much for your kind replies. Yes, this was my first course 
> of action when the problem first arose, and while WI contacts at the time 
> were attentive and wished to help, I recall we didn't really come to a 
> solution. I do have a conversation in the wings with another knowledgeable 
> fellow, so I'll see where this one takes me. I contact WI again if 
> necessary.
>
> S.Greco, I'll keep you informed should my issue be resolved. 
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:47:39 PM UTC+9 S. Greco wrote:
>
>> I have this same issue with one of my M15 hubs. Please post if you get a 
>> solid answer. 
>> My LBS recommended new bearings which I bought and installed, but it did 
>> not fix the issue.
>>
>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 9:33:29 PM UTC-5 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> As Garth advises, I too would reach out to White Industries.  I had a 
>>> question regarding a rear hub awhile ago and they were very helpful.  
>>> Speaking on the phone in a two-way is, IMHO, always better.  They might 
>>> need to eventually inspect the hub, so that might happen.  Either way, WI 
>>> has been outstanding, at least for me.  Good luck.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>> Claremont, CA
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 3:07:46 PM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote:
>>>
 Please pardon if this is not the forum for this and kindly redirect me 
 if possible. 

 The rear wheel of my Hunq finds a White M15 that is about 4 or so years 
 old at its center. Several years ago it developed a bit of play and I 
 haven't been able to solve the issue. I have adjusted it meticulously 
 according to White's specifications, but the play resurfaces after a few 
 kilometers of riding.

 I. have a. new set of bearings for the hub, but before I replace them I 
 thought I'd reach out to see if anyone might offer a simpler fix. 

 CHeers,
 John

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Interesting front (or rear) rack from Tumbleweed Bikes

[Minh]

is top of fork crown the only mounting option?  is that common enough on 
forks that this rack would be compatible with enough bikes?  i like the 
modularity with the different mounting points, even if it looks a little 
too cobbled together (IMO)

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 9:02:27 AM UTC-5 philipr...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> +1 on the T-Rack on my Kona ULTD bikepacking rig. Very nice piece of kit.
>
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:55:38 AM UTC-6 pbsm...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I've got a T Rack on my bike packing bike for a anything Cage and Ortlieb 
>> fork pack. Also strap a dry bag to the top. Can't believe there are not 
>> more racks with 3 packs on them available in the market. 
>>
>> Pat DC
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:33:02 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Very interesting that Riv connection. I was very tempted to get the Mini 
>>> Pannier also but had a store credit with Riv so ordered the Shiny rear. 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 1:26 AM, rlti...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I run their T-Rack on the front and Mini Pannier Rack on the rear of my 
>>> bikepacking bike. Very functional racks since they have the anything cage 
>>> mounts as well as braze-on’s for mounting lights.
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel from Tumbleweed worked for Riv at one time and that had some 
>>> influence on the bikes he offers now.
>>>
>>> Robert Tilley
>>> San Diego, CA
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:33 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>>>
>>> This one is not a svelte Nitto or other shiny rack. But it is a bit 
>>> unique in that the vertical legs have the three threaded boss mounts to 
>>> accept anything / manything cages or these OvejaNegra Bootlegger direct 
>>> mount bags. It can also take some mini panniers. It is very easy to mount 
>>> and is very well made. I plan to mount a Wald 137 basket and utilize a 
>>> Tanglefoot Cycles Fifth Season Squall basket bag. Pics to follow... 
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6c0860b7-6e05-4b56-93de-626b3e0eb8b1n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
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[RBW] Re: If Rivendell made a snowboard...

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Garth!  Start on the low part of the hill and work your way up

I'm a novice snowboarder (probably haven't been out in 10 or 15 years) and 
it was a pretty small learning curve.  

Enjoy!

Alex

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 4:58:51 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

>
>
> Wow that does look like FUN ! I have hills for dayze within feet of my 
> home that I hike up and down and all around all winter so I'm really 
> tempted to try one even though I've never ridden any snowboard in my 
> life hah hah . yet I "remember" that the past is but a 
> instantaneous story that is told in the presence-sense that gives it all 
> the impression of "ordinary" life.  Hah hah  It is anything but that !  
> It's more like an "at-ease-ment" ... yeah ... that's it . 
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 10:45:04 AM UTC-5 Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow 
> Haus Bicycles wrote:
>
>> Yes! I was eyeing the DIY version as well because, despite having a 
>> couple other kids boards, everyone wants the one Dad bought 
>>
>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 7:49:13 AM UTC-5 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>>
>>> Or maybe this one, ha!
>>>
>>> https://www.burton.com/us/en/p/mens-burton-diy-throwback-snowboard/W22-1985610130.html
>>>
>>> These do look really fun.  I've never been a skier or snowboarder(no 
>>> particular reason, really) but do recall a friend having something like 
>>> this as a kid and when we'd end up pushing the limits... like how it was 
>>> fun on unplowed steep roads until learning the hard way how unforgiving the 
>>> pavement underneath was with wipeouts.
>>>
>>> A year or two ago my wife impulsively had bought an inflatable 'rocket' 
>>> sled for our son before the winter season, wanting to have something for 
>>> whenever the first snow arrived.   I'd been snow tubing once or twice many 
>>> years ago but only at a snow park with steep hills so it never really 
>>> occurred to me how fun a big inflatable sled would be even on local small 
>>> hills, whether fresh powder or packed/icy conditions.  It was big enough 
>>> for two so we started out taking turns riding with our son.  Now he's 4+ 
>>> going solo and wiping out intentionally.  And it packs down nice and small 
>>> in the offseason.
>>>
>>> Worked out much better than when we bought snowshoes after a couple 
>>> really snowy winters a few years back and before our son was born.  Of 
>>> course the next winter after we finally bought some shoes it was the 
>>> mildest and possibly the least snowy of recent memory.  Oh well.
>>>
>>> Definitely going to need to consider one of these for winters to come.  
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Brian Cole
>>> Lawrence NJ
>>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 1:53:26 PM UTC-5 Alex Wirth- Owner, 
>>> Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote:
>>>
 Man I had been eyeing this snowboard for a couple months and finally 
 pulled the trigger after a demo at out our local "Winterfest"


 https://www.burton.com/us/en/p/burton-the-throwback-snowboard/W22-159771.html

 It was an absolute blast riding this with the kids in the backyard.  
 One of my first realizations was the similarity it has with the Rivendell 
 ethos.  No bindings, fancy tech, car rides or lift ticketsyou just 
 wear 
 whatever you'd wear in the winter and rip around neighborhood hills.  A 
 nice no-fuss approach to fun in the snow.  Functionally it's pretty darn 
 good for a shaped piece of plywood with a laminated snowboard bottom on 
 it.  

 It's so fun! Maybe the best purchase I've made in the past year plus...

 Thought I'd turn the group on to them as I often flail on outdoor 
 things in the winter that are as enjoyable as riding my bike in the 
 summer.  Can't wait to explore some hills around the neighborhood.

 Cheers!  (for the more skeptical folks, I have zero financial or other 
 motivation to share this other than passing along some winter fun)

 Alex in Rochester, NY


 [image: burton.jpg]

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Interesting front (or rear) rack from Tumbleweed Bikes

[Philip Barrett]

+1 on the T-Rack on my Kona ULTD bikepacking rig. Very nice piece of kit.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:55:38 AM UTC-6 pbsm...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've got a T Rack on my bike packing bike for a anything Cage and Ortlieb 
> fork pack. Also strap a dry bag to the top. Can't believe there are not 
> more racks with 3 packs on them available in the market. 
>
> Pat DC
>
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:33:02 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Very interesting that Riv connection. I was very tempted to get the Mini 
>> Pannier also but had a store credit with Riv so ordered the Shiny rear. 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 1:26 AM, rlti...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I run their T-Rack on the front and Mini Pannier Rack on the rear of my 
>> bikepacking bike. Very functional racks since they have the anything cage 
>> mounts as well as braze-on’s for mounting lights.
>>
>>
>> Daniel from Tumbleweed worked for Riv at one time and that had some 
>> influence on the bikes he offers now.
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:33 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>>
>> This one is not a svelte Nitto or other shiny rack. But it is a bit 
>> unique in that the vertical legs have the three threaded boss mounts to 
>> accept anything / manything cages or these OvejaNegra Bootlegger direct 
>> mount bags. It can also take some mini panniers. It is very easy to mount 
>> and is very well made. I plan to mount a Wald 137 basket and utilize a 
>> Tanglefoot Cycles Fifth Season Squall basket bag. Pics to follow... 
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Interesting front (or rear) rack from Tumbleweed Bikes

[Pat Smith]

I've got a T Rack on my bike packing bike for a anything Cage and Ortlieb 
fork pack. Also strap a dry bag to the top. Can't believe there are not 
more racks with 3 packs on them available in the market. 

Pat DC

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:33:02 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Very interesting that Riv connection. I was very tempted to get the Mini 
> Pannier also but had a store credit with Riv so ordered the Shiny rear. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 1:26 AM, rlti...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I run their T-Rack on the front and Mini Pannier Rack on the rear of my 
> bikepacking bike. Very functional racks since they have the anything cage 
> mounts as well as braze-on’s for mounting lights.
>
>
> Daniel from Tumbleweed worked for Riv at one time and that had some 
> influence on the bikes he offers now.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:33 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>
> This one is not a svelte Nitto or other shiny rack. But it is a bit 
> unique in that the vertical legs have the three threaded boss mounts to 
> accept anything / manything cages or these OvejaNegra Bootlegger direct 
> mount bags. It can also take some mini panniers. It is very easy to mount 
> and is very well made. I plan to mount a Wald 137 basket and utilize a 
> Tanglefoot Cycles Fifth Season Squall basket bag. Pics to follow... 
>
> -- 
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> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[Garth]

Great John !  FWIW, I have 2 sets of Specialized cartridge bearing 
hubs(radial type bearings) from the early 80's that have that same kind of 
lateral play. I've been riding them all this time and I just consider it a 
harmless quirk. They're interesting in that they use a threaded axle and a 
flat, non-angled cone and washers and nuts. They look just like loose ball 
hubs from the outside, and if I replaced the radial bearings with AC ones I 
would be able to preload them just like loose ball hubs. I tried to remove 
the play long ago but realized the play is inherent in the bearings. The 
radial bearings still roll fine so if something isn't broke I'm not going 
to touch them. I can't tell you how many times I've "tried" to fix what 
isn't broke and ended up breaking what was never broken in the first place.

I also have a couple sets of Phil Wood hubs that also use radial bearings 
but they don't have any play, so the bearings they use are possibly of 
higher tolerances, or maybe there's more drag from the sealing that keeps 
any play at bay. That's just speculation. They roll fine so once again I'm 
not touching them !  

So if your bearings are running smooth you may as well keep riding them. If 
they ever need replacing then you could get a pair of AC ones(or some Phil 
Wood radials) , but remember it's only the outside bearings(if it uses 2 
pairs per side) that can be AC as there is no way to load the inner ones. I 
think WI uses Enduro bearings, which are of middle-of-the-road quality. 
Phil bearings are considered premium, at least for bicycle applications 
that is. 
On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 6:07:46 AM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote:

> Thank you, Garth! What an education this is, and I really appreciate the 
> time and effort you've put into helping me understand this. 
>
> As for how much play, if I had to guess I'd say that when I grab my wheel 
> at the tire a move it laterally to test for play there's maybe a 1-2mm 
> shift. Maybe? I don't notice it when I'm riding. Then again, I'm not even 
> sure what I would be noticing if the wheel were flopping around as I ride. 
>
> However, I have noticed of late that sometimes when I'm braking in a 
> corner there's a little bit of a shriek from the rear rim. This is, in 
> fact, what got me thinking about the play again after coming to terms with 
> it for some time. Could be just an improperly adjusted brake pad, but I did 
> just change them (salmon thinlines), set them up properly, and still a 
> little noise while cornering. Somehow I'm imagining the angle of contact 
> between the brake pad and the rim changes slightly while in a corner due to 
> the play in the hub, and this is what's causing the noise. But, I'm 
> certainly not knowledgeable enough for this to be anything but an 
> hypothesis. 
>
> I'm looking forward to investigating the RC vs AC bearings. In the 
> meantime, my take-away from your note is that as long as I have radial 
> bearings I should expect some play in the hub when off the bike.
>
> Thanks again!
> John
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 6:22:54 PM UTC+9 Garth wrote:
>
>> John, I know it's impossible to put into words how much play you are 
>> experiencing, but if it helps at all many cartridge bearing hub with radial 
>> type bearings exhibit a small amount of lateral play. It's not enough to 
>> notice when riding or braking, only when you're off the bike and wiggle the 
>> rim. Radial type cartridges are preloaded and nonadjustable. While I see WI 
>> shows the end being adjustable, other that to snug up the end I don't see 
>> any other benefit to it. If the bearings were angular contact type then yes 
>> it could be adjusted. As I was writing this I was curious, and sure, that 
>> someone has replaced their outermost radial bearings with AC type, and sure 
>> enough I found this thread :  
>> https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1074471-swap-radial-cartridge-angular-contact-bearings.html
>>
>> The relevant reply after many "whys and no you can'ts" from people who 
>> have not done it, is #15 ... and watch the video contained in reply #19 for 
>> a brief on the differences between radial and AC cartridge bearings. 
>>
>>
>> *Thanks*
>>
>> *I posed this question to my wheel builder, Jude at Sugar, and here is 
>> what she said about using AC bearings with my White T11 hub:*
>>
>> *Yes, it would be ideal to have angular contact bearings as the outermost 
>> bearings in the hub. White Industries doesn't do this as a stock option 
>> because it's a lot of bearings for them to manage in inventory. But, as we 
>> replace bearings here, we use angular contact bearings which will require 
>> an adjustment.*
>>
>> *Then I asked about the preload issue and her response was:*
>>
>> *The locking collar on the non-drive side is actually an adjusting 
>> collar.*
>>
>> * So you'll lock down the collar just until the play disappears which is 
>> much like doing the bearing adjustment but you will have to be 

Re: [RBW] Interesting front (or rear) rack from Tumbleweed Bikes

[Richard Rose]

Very interesting that Riv connection. I was very tempted to get the Mini 
Pannier also but had a store credit with Riv so ordered the Shiny rear. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 1:26 AM, rltil...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I run their T-Rack on the front and Mini Pannier Rack on the rear of my 
> bikepacking bike. Very functional racks since they have the anything cage 
> mounts as well as braze-on’s for mounting lights.
> 
> Daniel from Tumbleweed worked for Riv at one time and that had some influence 
> on the bikes he offers now.
> 
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:33 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>>> 
>> This one is not a svelte Nitto or other shiny rack. But it is a bit unique 
>> in that the vertical legs have the three threaded boss mounts to accept 
>> anything / manything cages or these OvejaNegra Bootlegger direct mount bags. 
>> It can also take some mini panniers. It is very easy to mount and is very 
>> well made. I plan to mount a Wald 137 basket and utilize a Tanglefoot Cycles 
>> Fifth Season Squall basket bag. Pics to follow...
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[John Rinker]

Thank you, Garth! What an education this is, and I really appreciate the 
time and effort you've put into helping me understand this. 

As for how much play, if I had to guess I'd say that when I grab my wheel 
at the tire a move it laterally to test for play there's maybe a 1-2mm 
shift. Maybe? I don't notice it when I'm riding. Then again, I'm not even 
sure what I would be noticing if the wheel were flopping around as I ride. 

However, I have noticed of late that sometimes when I'm braking in a corner 
there's a little bit of a shriek from the rear rim. This is, in fact, what 
got me thinking about the play again after coming to terms with it for some 
time. Could be just an improperly adjusted brake pad, but I did just change 
them (salmon thinlines), set them up properly, and still a little noise 
while cornering. Somehow I'm imagining the angle of contact between the 
brake pad and the rim changes slightly while in a corner due to the play in 
the hub, and this is what's causing the noise. But, I'm certainly not 
knowledgeable enough for this to be anything but an hypothesis. 

I'm looking forward to investigating the RC vs AC bearings. In the 
meantime, my take-away from your note is that as long as I have radial 
bearings I should expect some play in the hub when off the bike.

Thanks again!
John



On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 6:22:54 PM UTC+9 Garth wrote:

> John, I know it's impossible to put into words how much play you are 
> experiencing, but if it helps at all many cartridge bearing hub with radial 
> type bearings exhibit a small amount of lateral play. It's not enough to 
> notice when riding or braking, only when you're off the bike and wiggle the 
> rim. Radial type cartridges are preloaded and nonadjustable. While I see WI 
> shows the end being adjustable, other that to snug up the end I don't see 
> any other benefit to it. If the bearings were angular contact type then yes 
> it could be adjusted. As I was writing this I was curious, and sure, that 
> someone has replaced their outermost radial bearings with AC type, and sure 
> enough I found this thread :  
> https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1074471-swap-radial-cartridge-angular-contact-bearings.html
>
> The relevant reply after many "whys and no you can'ts" from people who 
> have not done it, is #15 ... and watch the video contained in reply #19 for 
> a brief on the differences between radial and AC cartridge bearings. 
>
>
> *Thanks*
>
> *I posed this question to my wheel builder, Jude at Sugar, and here is 
> what she said about using AC bearings with my White T11 hub:*
>
> *Yes, it would be ideal to have angular contact bearings as the outermost 
> bearings in the hub. White Industries doesn't do this as a stock option 
> because it's a lot of bearings for them to manage in inventory. But, as we 
> replace bearings here, we use angular contact bearings which will require 
> an adjustment.*
>
> *Then I asked about the preload issue and her response was:*
>
> *The locking collar on the non-drive side is actually an adjusting collar.*
>
> * So you'll lock down the collar just until the play disappears which is 
> much like doing the bearing adjustment but you will have to be aware of any 
> play in your wheel.So I guess its possible but not clear why its ideal on 
> the outermost bearings.*
>   
> 
>
> The answer to "why" would be longevity of the bearings and the ability to 
> remove any play. You just have to be aware of your preload, like on loose 
> ball hubs. 
>
> Yay ! 
>
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 1:28:17 AM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Garth and Jeffrey,
>>
>> Thank you very much for your kind replies. Yes, this was my first course 
>> of action when the problem first arose, and while WI contacts at the time 
>> were attentive and wished to help, I recall we didn't really come to a 
>> solution. I do have a conversation in the wings with another knowledgeable 
>> fellow, so I'll see where this one takes me. I contact WI again if 
>> necessary.
>>
>> S.Greco, I'll keep you informed should my issue be resolved. 
>>
>> Cheers,
>> John
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:47:39 PM UTC+9 S. Greco wrote:
>>
>>> I have this same issue with one of my M15 hubs. Please post if you get a 
>>> solid answer. 
>>> My LBS recommended new bearings which I bought and installed, but it did 
>>> not fix the issue.
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 9:33:29 PM UTC-5 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>>
 John,

 As Garth advises, I too would reach out to White Industries.  I had a 
 question regarding a rear hub awhile ago and they were very helpful.  
 Speaking on the phone in a two-way is, IMHO, always better.  They might 
 need to eventually inspect the hub, so that might happen.  Either way, WI 
 has been outstanding, at least for me.  Good luck.

 Best regards,

 Jeff
 Claremont, CA

 On Sunday, 

[RBW] Re: Hub Play

[Garth]

John, I know it's impossible to put into words how much play you are 
experiencing, but if it helps at all many cartridge bearing hub with radial 
type bearings exhibit a small amount of lateral play. It's not enough to 
notice when riding or braking, only when you're off the bike and wiggle the 
rim. Radial type cartridges are preloaded and nonadjustable. While I see WI 
shows the end being adjustable, other that to snug up the end I don't see 
any other benefit to it. If the bearings were angular contact type then yes 
it could be adjusted. As I was writing this I was curious, and sure, that 
someone has replaced their outermost radial bearings with AC type, and sure 
enough I found this thread 
:  
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1074471-swap-radial-cartridge-angular-contact-bearings.html

The relevant reply after many "whys and no you can'ts" from people who have 
not done it, is #15 ... and watch the video contained in reply #19 for a 
brief on the differences between radial and AC cartridge bearings. 


*Thanks*

*I posed this question to my wheel builder, Jude at Sugar, and here is what 
she said about using AC bearings with my White T11 hub:*

*Yes, it would be ideal to have angular contact bearings as the outermost 
bearings in the hub. White Industries doesn't do this as a stock option 
because it's a lot of bearings for them to manage in inventory. But, as we 
replace bearings here, we use angular contact bearings which will require 
an adjustment.*

*Then I asked about the preload issue and her response was:*

*The locking collar on the non-drive side is actually an adjusting collar.*

* So you'll lock down the collar just until the play disappears which is 
much like doing the bearing adjustment but you will have to be aware of any 
play in your wheel.So I guess its possible but not clear why its ideal on 
the outermost bearings.*
  


The answer to "why" would be longevity of the bearings and the ability to 
remove any play. You just have to be aware of your preload, like on loose 
ball hubs. 

Yay ! 

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 1:28:17 AM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote:

> Garth and Jeffrey,
>
> Thank you very much for your kind replies. Yes, this was my first course 
> of action when the problem first arose, and while WI contacts at the time 
> were attentive and wished to help, I recall we didn't really come to a 
> solution. I do have a conversation in the wings with another knowledgeable 
> fellow, so I'll see where this one takes me. I contact WI again if 
> necessary.
>
> S.Greco, I'll keep you informed should my issue be resolved. 
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:47:39 PM UTC+9 S. Greco wrote:
>
>> I have this same issue with one of my M15 hubs. Please post if you get a 
>> solid answer. 
>> My LBS recommended new bearings which I bought and installed, but it did 
>> not fix the issue.
>>
>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 9:33:29 PM UTC-5 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> As Garth advises, I too would reach out to White Industries.  I had a 
>>> question regarding a rear hub awhile ago and they were very helpful.  
>>> Speaking on the phone in a two-way is, IMHO, always better.  They might 
>>> need to eventually inspect the hub, so that might happen.  Either way, WI 
>>> has been outstanding, at least for me.  Good luck.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>> Claremont, CA
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 3:07:46 PM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote:
>>>
 Please pardon if this is not the forum for this and kindly redirect me 
 if possible. 

 The rear wheel of my Hunq finds a White M15 that is about 4 or so years 
 old at its center. Several years ago it developed a bit of play and I 
 haven't been able to solve the issue. I have adjusted it meticulously 
 according to White's specifications, but the play resurfaces after a few 
 kilometers of riding.

 I. have a. new set of bearings for the hub, but before I replace them I 
 thought I'd reach out to see if anyone might offer a simpler fix. 

 CHeers,
 John

>>>

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