Re: [RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Patrick Moore]

OTOH: I recall a practically new Schwinn Collegiate bought at Goodwill that
had a 5 speed square-tooth wide range freewheel shifted by a second-gen
Alvit rear derailleur pulled by a massive, chromed steel lever clamped to
the stem quill; possibly Suntour ratcheting? I don't recall.

At any rate, I was struck at how well it shifted, if you moved the lever
confidently and with authority. The chain would move promptly to the next
cog with a loud "thump" without any rattling afterward and the need to trim
the derailleur. Again, the system seemed to be in new condition.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 11:15 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> FWIW, I read a few years ago that using a chain 1 generation more advanced
> than one's cassette improved shifting because the later and narrower chain
> avoids rubbing on adjacent cogs a wee but noticeable bit better than the
> earlier chain. I've been using 11 sp chains on my 10 sp cassettes, and
> while the difference isn't striking, I think it does keep the chain quieter
> while not in any way compromising shifting precision or speed.
>
> In any event, the best friction shifting I've enjoyed is 10 cogs with
> cassettes built using not only 10 sp spacers but real 10 sp cogs, with both
> 10 sp and 11 sp chains. The 9 and 8 sp cassettes I used had proper spacers
> but cogs of all ages and generations including 7s and Uniglides, but even
> those shifted fine -- I never complained, even tho' my 10s shift better.
>
> I said yesterday and someone else also pointed out that a great deal of
> friction shifting precision results from a happy match of shifter with
> derailleur. The 9 speed drivetrain that shifted in friction almost as well
> as the "proper" 10 sp systems was a bastard cassette shifted by a
> Microshift rd pulled by a first-gen Silver BES. Lovely, tho' due to the
> mismatch of the cogs, not quite as lovely as the current Barcon + 7402 + 10
> sp cassette build from proper 10 sp cogs carrying 11 sp chain.
>
> Patrick Moore, who also found that small-barrel Retrofriction dt shifters
> shifted 10 sp Am Classic close ratio cassettes very, very well, back circa
> 2003-2005.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:08 AM Hoch in ut  wrote:
>
>> I’ve tried 8,9,10 speeds with friction shifting. 10 speed, nope. 9 was ok
>> But settled on 8-speed for pretty much all friction shift bikes.
>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, I read a few years ago that using a chain 1 generation more advanced
than one's cassette improved shifting because the later and narrower chain
avoids rubbing on adjacent cogs a wee but noticeable bit better than the
earlier chain. I've been using 11 sp chains on my 10 sp cassettes, and
while the difference isn't striking, I think it does keep the chain quieter
while not in any way compromising shifting precision or speed.

In any event, the best friction shifting I've enjoyed is 10 cogs with
cassettes built using not only 10 sp spacers but real 10 sp cogs, with both
10 sp and 11 sp chains. The 9 and 8 sp cassettes I used had proper spacers
but cogs of all ages and generations including 7s and Uniglides, but even
those shifted fine -- I never complained, even tho' my 10s shift better.

I said yesterday and someone else also pointed out that a great deal of
friction shifting precision results from a happy match of shifter with
derailleur. The 9 speed drivetrain that shifted in friction almost as well
as the "proper" 10 sp systems was a bastard cassette shifted by a
Microshift rd pulled by a first-gen Silver BES. Lovely, tho' due to the
mismatch of the cogs, not quite as lovely as the current Barcon + 7402 + 10
sp cassette build from proper 10 sp cogs carrying 11 sp chain.

Patrick Moore, who also found that small-barrel Retrofriction dt shifters
shifted 10 sp Am Classic close ratio cassettes very, very well, back circa
2003-2005.



On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:08 AM Hoch in ut  wrote:

> I’ve tried 8,9,10 speeds with friction shifting. 10 speed, nope. 9 was ok
> But settled on 8-speed for pretty much all friction shift bikes.
>

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[RBW] Re: Long shot: Seeking information about a Sturmey Archer AR-8 hub: IGH + drum brake

[Patrick Moore]

I'm amazed at what arcana comes up from a request for obscure information.
I cannot be 100% certain without disassembling the hub in question, but
various inputs from several lists indicate that this "AR-8" hub is not an
ultra-close ratio racing 3 speed hub from 1938 ("AR-8") inexplicably
attached to a drum brake but a A*B*-8, an AW (133/100/75) wide ratio hub
very expectedly attached to a drum brake made in 1938 for very reasonable
use on an upright roadsters. Someone thought that the stamping read
"AB-*3"* but
I see an 8 when I look closely.

I Googled some more and found a couple of old FS ads for old roadsters with
AB-8 hubs as well as these SA links for the AB and the AB3, which both are
also on Sheldon's SA IGH crib chart:

AB: 1930s wide ratio with drum brake:
http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/index.php?page=history-detail=54

*And* the AB3: a modern (at least per Sheldon in 2010) iteration:
https://web.archive.org/web/20121029092003/http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/3/id/18/specs/1

But I think that the stamping reads "8" and not "3" -- again, AB hub, wide
ratio, plus drum brake, 1938.

So, over and out.

On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 3:03 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Someone wants to trade for one of my AMs and I want to know what ratios it
> has.
>
> I realize that this is a long shot (and yes, I first asked on the IGH
> list) but does anyone know what the ratios are?
>
> >>> Is this in fact an ultra-close ratio AR hub* (made for time trialers)
> mated for some reason to a drum brake? Perhaps for tandem time trialers? <<<
>
> I'd love to have an AR with or without drum, but I don't want to end up
> with another AW-type epicyclic.
>
>
> * Direct, 107.24% overdrive, 93.24% underdrive; say 75/70/66 gi.
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


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Re: [RBW] Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for the old Suntours.

OTOH, I got wonderful friction shifting with gen-1 Silvers, a Microshift
road rear derailleur, and a home-brew 9-speed cogset (used 9 sp spacers but
cogs were probably mix of 9, 8, 7, and possibly Uniglde). So a great deal
depends on the match between shifter and derailleur. In fact, I think that
this shifter/derailleur combination may have been an ideal pairing given
the cog mismatches, tho' the Barcon + DA 7402 combo today (shifting 10) is
as good if not even better, but now using proper 10 sp cogs and an 11 sp
chain, and I do prefer the action, the absence of slipping, and the
durability (broke 2 Silvers when bike fell over) of the Barcons.

OTOH again, I recall back about 2000 doing some mountain bike day tours
around Aspen and using the current mid-level Shimano indexed trigger
shifting of the time, both front and rear. I remember being very glad at
how well it all worked -- shove, snick, new gear -- when oxygen deprived
climbing a steep hill at 13K feet. And certainly the 7 speed indexed dt
rear shifting on my Sante equipped Falcon was absolutely flawless.



On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 11:59 PM exliontamer  wrote:

> ... When pedaling hard, I've had ghost shifting on every Riv/Dia Compe
> Shifter I've had unless they're tightened to the point of negating the
> feel. Very much prefer the older Suntour ratcheting which just feel more
> solid/sure and the Shimanos that are switchable.

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Re: [RBW] Snapped Clem seat binder bolt

[Patrick Moore]

 13, 2024 at 7:22:14 PM UTC-7 Danny wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve had that happen on a new Riv before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is from a Riv newsletter last year:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Also, make sure to grease the binder bolts before you tighten
>>>>>>>>>>>> them down. They ship to us dry and they have a tendency to gall 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and not
>>>>>>>>>>>> tighten down enough unless they're greased up.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Danny
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 13, 2024 at 9:07 PM i  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was installing the seatpost on my wife’s new Clem, and could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not get the seatpost to stop turning. Eventually I broke the bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I remember I had this occur on an old Clem I had as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAL988QstY_0yqs-07nqZMTDKBoTvmqT6RUPGC8zkGWnW_GJhkg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAL988QstY_0yqs-07nqZMTDKBoTvmqT6RUPGC8zkGWnW_GJhkg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Hard Miles

[Patrick Moore]

That might be worth watching; thanks for the link. (Yes, I too find most
movies too slow and only watch them with my daughter, a film major;
otherwise I fast-forward a lot.)*

I can't help but thinking that if there were riding Rivendells they might
have been more comfortable.

Lastly, when I read the header, "Hard Miles," I saw "Hard Men."
https://www.velominati.com/racing/flahute-the-hardest-of-the-hardmen/
You're welcome.

*Actually, discovered some old BBC or Brit TV movies that I actually like;
one is the 2-part condensation of E Waugh's already condensed Sword of
Honor, starring (of all people) Daniel Craig. I dislike Craig, but he does
a wonderful job in this early 2000s movie. Four thumbs up.

Oh: Another wonderful one: Run, Boy, Run -- a 9 year old Jewish boy from
the shtetl runs away into the woods as Nazis round up his family and shoot
his father; the movie describes his survival. Based on true story.


On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:37 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There’s a new movie premiering next week called Hard Miles, and I think it
> will delight us. It’s based on a true story about some youth in the justice
> system riding their bikes from CO to the Grand Canyon, a 750+ mile venture.
> There are some big names in the movie, notably Sean Astin, who played
> Samwise Gamgee in LOTR, AND THERE’S YOUR RIVENDELL CONNECTION YOU’RE
> WELCOME.
>
> I never see movies anymore (I can’t sit still that long) but I plan to see
> this one.
> Here’s the trailer:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxwcSaXXAZE
>
> Leah
>
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[RBW] Spacer / shifting performance: Correction [AliExpress].

[Patrick Moore]

Re: 1.6 mm Shimano cogs spaced with 2.04 mm Miche 10 sp spacers instead of
stock Shimano 2.35 mm 10 sp spacers (Miche's 10 sp cogs have a 1.8 mm body
-- but not teeth, which are also 1.6 mm -- and thus take the narrower
spacers):

Slight change to judgment: while the 11 sp chain does shift and track
wonderfully with the skinnier Shimano cogs spaced with the skinnier Miche
spacers on 8 of the 10 gears (the 14 t outer cog has a built in
Shimano-9-sp spec spacer), it rattles very, very slightly on the remaining
cog, requiring finicky trimming to eliminate all sound; and alas this cog
is the 18 t, #5 from outermost, which is tje most-used 70" flatland
cruising gear.

So, once the Ali Express spacers order arrives I'll bump at least that cog
out with 2.35s or perhaps 2.18s.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 1:45 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> For the new 14-25 knobby cassette I bought 3 14-25 9 speeds from Peter
> White ($28 each, not bad) and disassembled them to replace the spacers and
> swap the 21 for a 20 and the 23 for a 22 and add a 28 after the 25. So the
> 14 outer is a proper Shimano outer with its own spacer (I guess that this
> spacer is 2.5 mm? I used Miche 2 mm spacers for the rest of the cassette;
> it all shifts perfectly ...
>

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Re: [RBW] The excellent old GP Sheldon/bikesite/mudsluts interview

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for posting this link; old times. I do miss the Reader; I expect
Rivendell could turn that into a modest new revenue stream, but Grant did
talk about the wear and tear writing it imposed on his psyche. But it was
always fun and quirky and sometimes silly, but genially -- and *interestingly!
--* so and to me one of the best-ever bike reads. The Blahg is a good
second best and there otta be a law that Grant write a new one every 2
weeks.

Also, Grant was the one person who brought Brooks saddles (or leather
suspension saddles generally) and transverse saddlebags back to the US
market.

Patrick Moore, who sourced a NOS Campy Valentino FD from Rivendell for his
first custom 26" wheel Riv road bike in 1995 -- and who still has 3/4 of
that lump of beeswax that he bought from Rivendell not much later; fun
fact: beeswax kept for 30 years hardens into a solid bulk that no fire will
melt. Or so it seems.

[And who just now got back from a very pleasant early Spring, sunny, breezy
ride on his 1999 Joe Starck Riv Road Custom gofast 76" fixed gear -- the
truly best bicycle I've owned out of scores and the ultimate keeper.]



*bikesite: And finallyIf Eddy Mercyx and Miguel Indurain were able to
race each other in their prime, if they were to ride technologically
identical bikes, if they each had the exact same amount of rest, each had
abstained from sex for a full week before the race and each had their
friends, family and countrymen there to cheer them on, who would get the
most flats?Grant Petersen: Indurain, but they'd be pinch flats.*



On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 8:12 AM  wrote:

> I’m sure this has been revived and discussed many times in the past thirty
> odd years, but I’m reading the Mudsluts (Sheldon Brown/bikesite?) interview
> with Grant Petersen and well if you haven’t read it you should. It’s mostly
> Grant trying not to make the whole interview about the internet and its
> future as a tool for bicycle businesses and customers.
> I got here unironically via Google search so I can’t tell you when it’s
> from but early in the Rivendell days, maybe 1994 or 1995.
> Someone more saavy can tell. Hopefully this link will work:
> Https://sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/mudslutsinterview.html
>
> Liz in Sacramento
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: 58cm Appaloosa Double Top Tube Disc Brake

[Patrick Moore]

Nice. I find disc-brake retro-equipped Rivendells rather interesting; I
know another person retrofitted them to a very nice Atlantis.

Who else has done this, and why?

Me, I like discs for dirt riding tho' they don't add anything for my
pavement riding.

On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 4:56 PM eric swain  wrote:

> And here is a full list of parts.
>
> Frame & fork: 58cm Joe Appaloosa with double top tubes AND disc brake tabs
> added by Walt Works.
> Headset: Tange Levin CDS
> Stem:  Crust/Nitto, 31.8mm, 75mm, silver
> Handlebars: Tumbleweed Persuader, steel, cut to 760mm
> Grips: DMR Deathgrip
> Brake levers: Shimano BL-M600
> Brakes: Paul Klampers, long pull, Paul brake adapters. Avid Clean Sweep G2
> 160mm Rotors
> Shifters: Shimano XT SL-M750
> Rear Derailleur: Shimano Deore RD-M591
> Front Derailleur: Shimano Deore XT Triple
> Cassette: Sram PG-950 9 speed, 11-34
> Chain: Sram PC-951
> Cranks: Shimano Deore FC-MT60, 175mm, 110/74 bcd, Shimano chain rings
> 46t/30t(46 mounted in the middle position, 30 in the small ring position)
> Bottom Bracket: Shimano UN55 68 x 118mm
> Pedals: No pedals, I'm keeping the Speedplay platforms currently
> installed.
> Hubs: Profile Racing Elite 6 bolt disc, 32h, black, QR, HG 11 speed road
> freehub body, Shimano XT skewers. I'll also include the end caps and
> hardware to convert hubs to bolt on.
> Rims: Sun Ringle Rhyno Lites, 32h, black with machined sidewalls
> Spokes/nipples, DT Swiss Competition, black, DT Swiss silver brass nipples
> Tires: Schwalbe Marathon 700 x 50, regular inner tubes
> Seat Post: Thomson Elite, silver. I'll include the Nitto post as well.
> Saddle: Brooks Cambium C17
> Front rack: Nitto Mark's Rack, silver with Wald 137 Basket
> Fenders: Planet Bike Cascadia 29 x 65mm, Black
>
> On Monday, April 8, 2024 at 3:55:05 PM UTC-7 eric swain wrote:
>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> Some of you may remember I tried selling my Appaloosa back in 2020. Well
>> at that time I decided to keep it, change a few parts, and have really
>> enjoyed it since then. Fun bike to ride, great set up for commuting,
>> running errands, dawdling around the neighborhood, and general bicycle
>> shenanigans. Fast forward to present times: my quiver has grown to a
>> ridiculous amount of bikes, my personal riding focus has shifted, I have a
>> new bike on the way, and I may be moving soon. I do not have room for every
>> bike and with a potential move I need scale back on large items, like
>> bikes. So this one is back up for sale!
>>
>> I am asking $2000 as pictured(minus pedals). Including the Outershell
>> Wald 137 basket bag, Makeshifter Snackhole stem bag, Zefal frame pump, Paul
>> Gino light mount, and King cages. Bike is located in Portland OR. Test
>> rides are welcome. Boxing and shipping is no problem. Here is a link to
>> more pics and the geo.
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/119mQzJCLMtSAMxge007HSiDUI9lv76W4?usp=sharing
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eric
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: AliExpress

[Patrick Moore]

For the 13-25 (Soma slick wheelset) I bought about 3 cassettes' worth of
 Miche cogs with extras for the high-use gears, and the outer/small is a
dedicated outer/small with its own spacer.

For the new 14-25 knobby cassette I bought 3 14-25 9 speeds from Peter
White ($28 each, not bad) and disassembled them to replace the spacers and
swap the 21 for a 20 and the 23 for a 22 and add a 28 after the 25. So the
14 outer is a proper Shimano outer with its own spacer (I guess that this
spacer is 2.5 mm? I used Miche 2 mm spacers for the rest of the cassette;
it all shifts perfectly [and the 7402 short cage climbs onto the 28 with no
fuss at all, with capacity to spare].

For a some-time-ago Ram I built a 15-25 9 speed cassette out of Miche
cogs*, and Miche made 15 and 14 t outers for Shimano with built-in spacers;
I think these are used among other places for junior racing.

But I've used all sorts of cogs for the outer position, sometimes just
cramming a regular inner-position cog into first place and just squeezing
it tightly in place with a lot of torque on the lockring. I've never had
one of these skip, but then I rarely use the outer and certainly not under
high torque.

*I got a lovely DA 7410 crank and wanted to use it in place of the TA 46/28
13-something, so I swapped out the 53/39 for a very compact 52/38 and built
the 15-25 to give me very similar gears with the much bigger rings.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 11:57 AM Garth  wrote:

> I ordered some things on Mar. 27th Patrick and they arrived April 3rd. The
> USPS label had a NJ address, but it said "not for returns". Then I noticed
> that label was placed over another label, so I peeled it back as best I
> could and sure enough, I saw an all Chinese printed label, the only English
> I saw was my name. So they must send these via air from China to NJ and
> relabel them with a USPS label. You being in NM they'll likely come from a
> West coast location upon arrival from China. I didn't pay anything extra
> for shipping either.
>
> When you make your own cassettes Patrick, what do you use for the small
> cog next to the lockring ? I see only the 11t and 12t serrated cogs are
> sold, but I know Miche and Shimano sell cassettes with 13,14 and 15t
> smallest cogs. Do you just tighten up against a regular cog without the
> serrations ?
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks again, Garth. I just ordered 10X 2.0, 2.18, and 2.35 mm Shimano
>> spacers for total of $30.20 with shipping and tax. AE did well with my
>> clumsily-placed orders of Shimano 10 sp cogs (instead of thinking ahead and
>> making 1 order for 3 different sizes I frenziedly hit "buy" 3 times and
>> paid extra for shipping); far easier than trying to get a LBS to find and
>> order 3 each of 3 cogs, and far cheaper than ordering from Europe, where
>> shipping costs seem to have tripled since COVID.
>>
>> Curious about AliExpress: search for a 22 t Shimano 10 sp cog and you get
>> 2 dozen offerings many of which give you a price of $0.83 and when you
>> click "yes please" they don't let you buy more than 1, or else the price
>> skyrockets to $2.72 -- still very cheap, of course.
>>
>> I received my shipments in a bit over a week with shipping for small
>> packages of 3 or 4 cogs under $7,  which leads me to wonder if they don't
>> have warehouses scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?
>>
>> At any rate, with spacers of 3 different widths I figure I'm well sorted
>> for any cassette build; as Garth very helpfully pointed out, Miche 10-sp
>> Shimano substitute cogs are 0.2 mm wider in the body (1.8 mm versus 1.6 mm
>> for Shimano cogs) tho' their teeth are 1.6 mm; which means that they take 2
>> mm instead of 2.35 mm spacers -- the total width is about 36 mm in either
>> case.
>>
>> But the cassette I built on Saturday with 10 1.6 mm cogs and 9 2 mm
>> spacers shifts just as well and identically to the other 10 sp cassetted
>> made from 10 Miche cogs and 9 2 mm spacers, without any derailleur
>> adjustment; so who knows. I did order 2.18 mm ones to split the difference.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>&g

[RBW] AliExpress

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks again, Garth. I just ordered 10X 2.0, 2.18, and 2.35 mm Shimano
spacers for total of $30.20 with shipping and tax. AE did well with my
clumsily-placed orders of Shimano 10 sp cogs (instead of thinking ahead and
making 1 order for 3 different sizes I frenziedly hit "buy" 3 times and
paid extra for shipping); far easier than trying to get a LBS to find and
order 3 each of 3 cogs, and far cheaper than ordering from Europe, where
shipping costs seem to have tripled since COVID.

Curious about AliExpress: search for a 22 t Shimano 10 sp cog and you get 2
dozen offerings many of which give you a price of $0.83 and when you click
"yes please" they don't let you buy more than 1, or else the price
skyrockets to $2.72 -- still very cheap, of course.

I received my shipments in a bit over a week with shipping for small
packages of 3 or 4 cogs under $7,  which leads me to wonder if they don't
have warehouses scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?

At any rate, with spacers of 3 different widths I figure I'm well sorted
for any cassette build; as Garth very helpfully pointed out, Miche 10-sp
Shimano substitute cogs are 0.2 mm wider in the body (1.8 mm versus 1.6 mm
for Shimano cogs) tho' their teeth are 1.6 mm; which means that they take 2
mm instead of 2.35 mm spacers -- the total width is about 36 mm in either
case.

But the cassette I built on Saturday with 10 1.6 mm cogs and 9 2 mm spacers
shifts just as well and identically to the other 10 sp cassetted made from
10 Miche cogs and 9 2 mm spacers, without any derailleur adjustment; so who
knows. I did order 2.18 mm ones to split the difference.

-- 

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[RBW] Rivendell style

[Patrick Moore]

For those of you too refined to read Bike Snob regularly, you might want to
make an exception for today's (Thursday's) post for Rivendell build canons
and style rules. Video included of new Riv owner anxious about acceptance
in the Rivendell World. [35-year-old narrator needs training in public
speaking.] [Recall when a schtick about Calvin's ~35-year-old father was
his mid-30s decrepitude and the absurdity of a middle-aged man riding a
bicycle in the wind, rain, and snow. "Time just gets away from us."]

This was fun:

And finally, your Rivendell bicycle should feature a highly improvisational
handlebar treatment:

Basically it’s like the Velominati on acid.

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[RBW] ISO Carradice Zip Roll or similar in size and quality, black, red, green

[Patrick Moore]

The black and green are $59+ change at Carradice but now it costs over $21
for shipping such a small item.

Looking for a good quality Zip Roll, *not tweed!!!* -- for sale or trade.
Any color but no damned tweed.

Open to similar design and similar size bags by other makers.

Please reply offlist.

Thanks, Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long Chainstays - What Problem/Deficiency Do They Solve?

[Patrick Moore]

Here's one benefit of very long chainstays:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXRjXv_4v0

You couldn't do that on any of my road Rivs or my Sam.

Patrick Moore, who used to use his right foot to brake the 24" front wheel
in 28"-wheel fork on his very first build when riding the fw bike without
other brakes in heavy traffic and down steep, winding hills on traffic
arteries.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing Choices

[Patrick Moore]

Piaw: It's easy and, thanks to AliExpress, relatively cheap to build your
own cassettes from loose parts -- at least, perhaps not for really huge
cogs. But a half step + granny could give me, anyway, nice close cruising
gears in the 75" to 60" range plus a downhill gear or two and some low
bailout gears.

I did this long ago for a commuter with 48/45 or 47/44 rings and a 7 speed
cassette, something like 13-32, half-stepping (more or less) the middle 5
cogs with cruising gears in the middle, and using the small for a downhill
gear and the big for a bailout gear:

25" wheel:
48 45
12 100
13 92 87
15 80 75
17 71 66
20 60 56
24 50 47
32 35

BTW, this shifted very nicely from hoods, ramps, and hooks with Kelley
Take-Offs, on pavement; would not want KTOs on bumpy dirt.


Generally speaking, though, with 9 cogs or more I prefer crossover, and
 I'll trade top high and bottom low for close middle ratios; with a 10
speed cassette giving many more possibilities and the new knobby 50 mm
Oracle Ridges requiring slightly lower sandy dirt gearing,  my Matthews
"road bike for (sandy) dirt" has a sub-compact plus granny:

28 1/2" wheel:
44 28
14 90
15 84
16 78
17 74
18 70
19 66
20 63 40
22 57 36
25 50 32
28 45 29




On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 10:54 AM Piaw Na  wrote:

> I'm a big fan of half-step + granny for 7-speed rear cassettes and
> freewheels. I think I even wrote an article about it for the Rivendell
> Reader at one point (good luck digging it up!). What killed it for me was
> once cassettes got to the point where constructing your cassette was no
> longer supported or too much work, it was no longer practical

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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

[Patrick Moore]

As a matter of fact, I've never used my Miche 10 sp cassettes with a 10 sp
chain but I suppose those must also work. (Since I built those Miche 10 sp
cassettes, I've used a chain "1 generation later" than the cassette because
web scuttlebutt says that this promotes crisper shifting. At least, I have
found no evidence to the contrary -- shifting is wonderful, as it is with
the same chain and the cassette made from 1.6 mm Shimano cogs and the same
2 mm spacers.)

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:58 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ...  At any rate, an 11 speed chain works fine on those 10 sp Miche cogs.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Ted. I reviewed Sheldon's chart and saw these measurements for 7
thru 10; where did you find the 11 sp measurements?

I'll be interested in you related post.

The 10 sp Miche cogs are odd. The Shimano 10 speeds measure 1.6 mm wide
across the cog, the Miche ones measure 1.6 mm at the teeth but ~1.8 mm or
so below tooth level; thus the 2 mm spacers, I guess. At any rate, an 11
speed chain works fine on those 10 sp Miche cogs.

Yes, someone please assemble a complete chart for at least Shimano
cassettes, freehub bodies, cogs, spaces, and chains.

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:05 AM Ted Durant  wrote:

> FWIW, the center-center spacing for Shimano cogs is:
>
> 7sp 5.00
> 8sp 4.80
> 9sp 4.35
> 10sp 3.95
> 11sp Road 3.69
> 11sp MTB 3.90
>
> Sorry, I don’t have 12 and 13.
>
> Cog + spacer widths need to add to those numbers. Theoretically you can
> use thinner cogs than spec with wider spacers, but you would run into
> trouble with chain fit using thicker cogs with thinner spacers. If somebody
> finds or assembles a complete table of cog and spacer thickness spec’s,
> that would be a significant contribution to humankind.
>
> I’ll be posting on a related topic, soon.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Eroica California

[Patrick Moore]

I certainly won't be riding Eroica, but I am very interested in hearing
more from RBW-listers who will be, and to hearing about and seeing pictures
of the bikes they plan to ride in the event, doubtless Rivendell KOF bikes.

I'm certainly not a vintage enthusiast as exhibited on the CR list, but I
guess my bikes, all customs at this point, are KOFs, more or less, and
feature old and even ancient componentry, tho' not so much (a *little,* but
not *principally*) for the historical schtick as for the type of riding I
like, which in many respects can't be achieved with modern components --
multispeed, commuter and errand fixed gear road bikes, fat-tire sandy
but pavement-worthy road bikes, light, fixed-gear gofast road bikes;
eventually, beater, nice-light-531-frame fixed gear errand bikes.

I do think that a Rambouillet, Heron, Roadeo, RoadUno, Quickbeam, Roadini,
Redwood, etc etc, not to mention Riv Road customs, can fit right into the
Eroica mold and I'd love to see Eroica-approved Rivendell builds.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 2:59 PM Jkarlin  wrote:

> I'm also curious about this. I tried sending an email to the contact on
> the webpage (*i...@eroicacalifornia.com)*, but I got a message back
> saying the address couldn't be found or was unable to receive mail.
>
> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 9:41:21 AM UTC-7 chefd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Curious if anyone on this forum is also a Vintage enthusiast and has
>> interest in the Eroica event that is run on the Central Coast of
>> California. I've ridden it a few times on my PX-10... its a great ride,
>> although the organization that runs the event has had its ups and downs
>> over the years. Currently, the website lists September 22, 2024 as the run
>> date, but the registration button leads to last year's sign-updoes
>> anyone have any better intel?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Garth; I get that impression. I'll probably order lots of both 2.0
and 2.35. Thanks again for the link.

Patrick Moore, who would find life much easier if he really knew what he
was doing (but then again, that's what lists are for).



On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 12:22 PM Garth  wrote:

> I don't think it has to be exact down to the .00's Patrick, even if
> indexing, certainly not for friction shifting. Use the 2mm ones you have. I
> don't think the plastic spacers compress in a cassette. You might be able
> to gouge one with a sharp instrument, but to compress the entire circle in
> a relatively low torque setting ? I think not.
> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 2:06:57 PM UTC-4 travis...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Patrick:
>>
>> As Roseanne Rosanadanna said many times and many years ago: "You sure
>> gotta lotta questions."
>>
>>  Which are the same question.
>>
>> Go to a bike shop and hand over a $tenner for a collection of used / worn
>> cassettes, explaining that spider-less ones are of special interest because
>> you want spacers, not cogs.
>>
>> Why you want only Shimano and not SRAM or any aftermarket cassettes
>> spacers is something you can keep secret. Me? I get infinite miles out of
>> cassette spacers. And they are in my DEI program and practice
>>
>>
>> --
>> Harry P Travis
>> Portland Oregon USA
>> 17.4.1
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2024, at 10:54 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I forgot to add that Sheldon says 2.35 mm for 10 sp; but mine (assume 10
>> sp because so ordered) are 2.04, again consistently with Park digital
>> caliper. Is 2.04 (or 2 mm -- willing to consider 4/100 mm user or
>> instrument error, or mfr error) for 11 speed? At any rate, my various 10 sp
>> home brew cassettes have been shifting wonderfully with the 2.04 mm ones.
>>
>> And someone on the RBW list pointed me to the right page on AliExpress
>> where I can find 2.35, 2.18, and 2.0 as well as 2.5 mm. Just want
>> clarification on the 2.0/2.04 and confirmation for the 2.35.
>>
>> It's all so confusing.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:43 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> *ISO* at least 7 and better 9, 10-speed spacers. Happy to salvage from
>>> worn out cassette. Please? $, trade, or charity.
>>>
>>> *Question: *Where can I find a reliable chart showing manufacturer's
>>> (Shimano; not interested in other mfrs) width specs for spacers and cogs
>>> for 9, 10, and 11 speed drivetrains? If chains included, so much the
>>> better. Sheldon has a chart that includes 9 and 10 but does not include 11
>>> but I'd like to compare 11 and confirm 9 and 10.
>>>
>>> The 2 spare 10-sp cassette spacers I have (red plastic, ordered for
>>> Shimano 10 sp from Cycle Clinic)  measure 2.04 mm, but I stumbled across 6
>>> alum spacers that measure 2mm. Are these alum spacers for 11 sp?
>>>
>>> At any rate, I would like to find at least 7, better 9 2.04 mm spacers
>>> for the Shimano spline pattern.
>>>
>>> I can find them new online for $6 per + shipping; can't find them on
>>> AliExpress; if youse plural have online sources reasonably priced, I'd be
>>> grateful to hear of them.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 2:34 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Welp, the otherwise very competent LBS that built my new Oracle Ridge
>>>> wheelset flubbed my special order of a dozen 10-sp Shimano spacers. I stole
>>>> the spacers from the older, Soma slick wheelset, but I'd like to find at
>>>> least 9 and up to a dozen 10 sp spacers. A second LBS I checked with just
>>>> now doesn't carry loose spacers, at least, unless you can find them in an
>>>>  ods-and-ends bin.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
>> --
>> To post to this group, send email to intern...@googlegro

[RBW] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps -- guessing -- the 2.0 spacer is for 11 sp cassettes, and the
(consistently measured) 2.04 mm plastic ones are so made to accommodate a
bit of compression which the 2.0 (consistent) aluminum ones don't suffer?

So: 2.0 = 11 speed?

2.35: 10 speed?

2.54: 9 speed?

Cogs:

11 speed: ?

10 speed: 1.6 mm per Sheldon and my caliper

9 speed: ~1.8 mm per Sheldon (1.78) and my caliper.

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[RBW] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot to add that Sheldon says 2.35 mm for 10 sp; but mine (assume 10 sp
because so ordered) are 2.04, again consistently with Park digital caliper.
Is 2.04 (or 2 mm -- willing to consider 4/100 mm user or instrument error,
or mfr error) for 11 speed? At any rate, my various 10 sp home brew
cassettes have been shifting wonderfully with the 2.04 mm ones.

And someone on the RBW list pointed me to the right page on AliExpress
where I can find 2.35, 2.18, and 2.0 as well as 2.5 mm. Just want
clarification on the 2.0/2.04 and confirmation for the 2.35.

It's all so confusing.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:43 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> *ISO* at least 7 and better 9, 10-speed spacers. Happy to salvage from
> worn out cassette. Please? $, trade, or charity.
>
> *Question: *Where can I find a reliable chart showing manufacturer's
> (Shimano; not interested in other mfrs) width specs for spacers and cogs
> for 9, 10, and 11 speed drivetrains? If chains included, so much the
> better. Sheldon has a chart that includes 9 and 10 but does not include 11
> but I'd like to compare 11 and confirm 9 and 10.
>
> The 2 spare 10-sp cassette spacers I have (red plastic, ordered for
> Shimano 10 sp from Cycle Clinic)  measure 2.04 mm, but I stumbled across 6
> alum spacers that measure 2mm. Are these alum spacers for 11 sp?
>
> At any rate, I would like to find at least 7, better 9 2.04 mm spacers for
> the Shimano spline pattern.
>
> I can find them new online for $6 per + shipping; can't find them on
> AliExpress; if youse plural have online sources reasonably priced, I'd be
> grateful to hear of them.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 2:34 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Welp, the otherwise very competent LBS that built my new Oracle Ridge
>> wheelset flubbed my special order of a dozen 10-sp Shimano spacers. I stole
>> the spacers from the older, Soma slick wheelset, but I'd like to find at
>> least 9 and up to a dozen 10 sp spacers. A second LBS I checked with just
>> now doesn't carry loose spacers, at least, unless you can find them in an
>>  ods-and-ends bin.
>>
>

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[RBW] 10 speed spacers: source found, but now confusion and question.

[Patrick Moore]

Re-threading this:

Thanks, Garth; you're fingers are obviously more deft than mine.

But a question, because now I'm confused (per other thread): how wide are
Shimano 10 sp spacers?

You say 2.35, Sheldon says 2.35mm, mine measure consistent 2.04 mm -- the
red plastic ones I ordered from Cycle Clinic (expressly for 10 sp
cassettes) in 2020. *And * I found a half-dozen alum spacers in my bin that
measure a consistent 2.0 mm.

So: is 2.04 -- 2.0 the 11 speed spacer?

The 14-28 10 sp cassette, as well as the 13-25, both use the red 2.04 mm
spacers with an 11 sp chain and it all shifts wonderfully.

*SO:* please tell me what I want!

Thanks!

On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:28 AM Garth  wrote:

> I case you come up empty here Patrick, there's aliexpress wholesale
> website. I've ordered from the website from various companies without any
> issues.
> https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-10-speed-cassette-spacers-2.35mm.html.
> You can also get spare cogs there.
> https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-10-speed-cassette-cogs.html
>
> If anyone made an 7-speed freehub, and it didn't make noise, I'd buy some
> and make my own cassettes.
>

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[RBW] Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

[Patrick Moore]

*ISO* at least 7 and better 9, 10-speed spacers. Happy to salvage from worn
out cassette. Please? $, trade, or charity.

*Question: *Where can I find a reliable chart showing manufacturer's
(Shimano; not interested in other mfrs) width specs for spacers and cogs
for 9, 10, and 11 speed drivetrains? If chains included, so much the
better. Sheldon has a chart that includes 9 and 10 but does not include 11
but I'd like to compare 11 and confirm 9 and 10.

The 2 spare 10-sp cassette spacers I have (red plastic, ordered for Shimano
10 sp from Cycle Clinic)  measure 2.04 mm, but I stumbled across 6 alum
spacers that measure 2mm. Are these alum spacers for 11 sp?

At any rate, I would like to find at least 7, better 9 2.04 mm spacers for
the Shimano spline pattern.

I can find them new online for $6 per + shipping; can't find them on
AliExpress; if youse plural have online sources reasonably priced, I'd be
grateful to hear of them.

Thanks.



On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 2:34 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Welp, the otherwise very competent LBS that built my new Oracle Ridge
> wheelset flubbed my special order of a dozen 10-sp Shimano spacers. I stole
> the spacers from the older, Soma slick wheelset, but I'd like to find at
> least 9 and up to a dozen 10 sp spacers. A second LBS I checked with just
> now doesn't carry loose spacers, at least, unless you can find them in an
>  ods-and-ends bin.
>

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Re: [RBW] FFS: one year's worth of Bicycle Quarterly

[Patrick Moore]

Paul: I'll take them!

Patrick Moore

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:58 PM Paul Richardson 
wrote:

> i have up for grabs the three most recent issues of BQ--nos. 83, 84, and
> 85.  yours for $9, paypal f+f or cash.
>
> thanks
> paul
> takoma park, md.
>
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Re: [RBW] Long Chainstays - What Problem/Deficiency Do They Solve?

[Patrick Moore]

Grant extended the chainstays on my road customs from an XO-1-length 42 cm
on the 1995 to 45 cm (to end of horizontal dropouts; Chauncey extended them
by another cm or so with even longer dropouts) on the later 2, and I don't
know if this is a problem and a solution, but the later 2 customs handled
noticeably better than the first (which was noticeably better with similar
wheels, tires, and build than the 1992 XO-1). The latter 2 have become my
handling benchmark by exhibiting even more than the first-gen Sam and
second-gen Ram the perfect combination of cornering nimbleness with
unerring stability. The first was not quite stable enough (the XO-1 neither
as stable nor as perfect in turn-in), the Ram very balanced but for my
taste a bit staid, and the Sam tracked too strongly -- didn't want to
change a line -- in fast corners and exhibited front-end wag on slow,
seated climbs.

Chauncey built my 2 Matthews with similar geometry and they exhibit similar
handling.

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 11:50 AM 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW
Owners Bunch  wrote:

> Enjoyed reading the thread "Anyone else not a fan of long chainstays?",
> especially Bill L's explanation of the RBW bike design philosophy.   Seems
> the prevailing thought is long stays are better for
> upright riding
> single track type trails (vs a Rails to Trails type trail)
>
> I'll just note 2 'facts'
> 1  The vast majority of RBW models (except the Roadeo type frame) use
> slack STA and HTA which may contribute to the ride effect when coupled with
> long stays.
> 2.  In the beginning RBW addressed getting the bars higher and adopting a
> non-racer riding style (back at 45° with hands on hoods), which IMHO were
> solutions to actual problems.
>
> *So What problem or current deficiency in bike design is Grant solving by
> using long chain stays*
> Just to bring bikes to market that no one else is building??
> Or do they solve a real problem???
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> FWIW 2 of 3 of my frames have 44 to 45cm chain stays, and 1 has a 43cm
> chain stay.It's hard to notice a ride difference.
>
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[RBW] ISO: 10-speed spacers

[Patrick Moore]

Welp, the otherwise very competent LBS that built my new Oracle Ridge
wheelset flubbed my special order of a dozen 10-sp Shimano spacers. I stole
the spacers from the older, Soma slick wheelset, but I'd like to find at
least 9 and up to a dozen 10 sp spacers. A second LBS I checked with just
now doesn't carry loose spacers, at least, unless you can find them in an
 ods-and-ends bin.

Does anyone have spares, or perhaps a worn out or otherwise unwanted 10 sp
cassette? They measure IIRC about 1.6 mm.

Thanks. Happy to buy, trade, or accept charity.

Patrick "14-15-16-17-18-19-20-22-25-28" Moore, in ABQ, NM

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[RBW] Anecdatum: Single datapoint "pro" for dynamo lighting.

[Patrick Moore]

I think there has been a recent thread or 2, or perhaps just thread
tangents, about dynamo lighting versus battery lighting. Here's my $0.05.

I  rushed off to Presanctified liturgy (Orthodox Lent is a month behind
Catholic Lent for reasons I don't understand) this evening at 5 pm after a
pretty full work day, riding the 2020 Matthews IGH road bike. I am usually
pretty good at getting all my riding kit together the night before, or at
least the morning before, but as I passed the outbound 3 mile or so mark I
realized that I'd forgotten all my reflective gear. I usually wear a bright
reflective Sam Browne or big Rivendell triangle as well as bright and wide
ankle reflectors on both legs.

But I was safe; the IGH Matthews has a SON 20R powering a 1st-gen Edeluxe
as well as a Secula seatstay-mount tail light and that big B rack-mount
one with a ring of LEDs around a central reflector. I had remembered to
attach my B Ixion IQ Premium AA battery light to augment the feeble
Edeluxe standlight.

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Re: [RBW] WTB: chainring guard for 38 tooth chainring

[Patrick Moore]

Roberta: If you can't find a Rivendell guard you might consider BBG
Bashguard: many designs, most bcds, most look good and are inexpensive.

https://bbgbashguard.com

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 12:40 AM Roberta  wrote:

> I’m looking for the Riv one
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/silver-chainring-guard?variant=31122825019503
> or the New Albion  one or something similar. The Rivendell one is my
> preference. Both are sold out.
>
> I'm attaching pics of blue Homer with the Riv one, mermaid Platypus with
> the New Albion one, and Betty Foy in need of one.
>
> Shipping to Philadelphia 19106. Please PM me off list.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Roberta
>
>
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Re: [RBW] FS: Alpacka Packraft Setup + Aquabound Paddle

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Collin; insights into a new -- to me -- pastime. If I were younger
I might have tried it on the Rio Grande.

Folbots: I remember those being advertised at the way back of National
Geographics in the 1960s.

On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 2:19 PM Collin A  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> I've posted my "Joe-Rafter" here before and I think John Rinkler picked
> one up in the winter?
>
> But yes, this raft was designed with having a heavy bike loaded on the
> front of the raft, no mini/foldable/small wheeled bike required. I
> essentially used it to bike up river, strap my bike to it, paddle down
> river, hop back on the bike, then pedal home. It saves having to stage a
> car as your friends and most others with a kayak do it. Its not as fast as
> a kayak (although, that's partly due to the engine as the argument goes),
> but also exceedingly light and packable. So the idea is you never have to
> worry about locking/staging anything and just bring everything with you on
> all legs of the trip!
>
> I added another photo and video of what its like with the bike on the
> front of the raft.
>
> Collin
>
> On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 1:03:10 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I'm not in the market, sorry, but I find that little inflatable very
>> interesting. Is the boat designed specifically for packing on a bike, then
>> floating the bike down river, then back to bike packing? I didn't know that
>> this combination was a thing.
>>
>> And isn't the Appaloosa a long wheelbase model? Do they make
>> kayak-specific bikes? (Recall a long-ago Boblist member planning a custom
>> small-wheel backpacking bike for wilderness trips.)
>>
>> The reason I'm interested is that my next door neighbor (ex Serotta
>> brazer back when Serotta built in steel and former roadie, but as a mail
>> carrier nearing 60 he now finds that his daily load carrying uses up his
>> energy) and his wife like to pack inflatable kayaks to the Rio Grande (the
>> river is about 1/2 mile East of my front door, but they pack the kayak/s
>> north to a Corrales entry point), float downriver about 6-8 miles, then
>> take the other car back to pick up the first car. I think *he* once or
>> twice packed the kayak north on his bike, locked bike, floated down, then
>> drove back to pick up bike.
>>
>> If you or anyone else cares to post photos of kayak/boat excursions, I'd
>> be delighted to see them.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 1:16 PM Collin A  wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> It is with a heavy feeling in my gut that I am posting my packraft setup
>>> for sale. I haven't used it since I moved away from Sacramento and I don't
>>> forsee it being something I continue with.
>>>
>>> Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wANwCsEVy5zK242K9
>>> Asking for $1000 shipped (plus 3% to cover G fees) for everything.
>>>
>>> You'll get:
>>>
>>>- Alpacka Carribou Bikerafting Raft - just the basic one (no bailer
>>>or internal storage) that comes in at about 5 lbs in blue. Comes with the
>>>seat, inflation bag, storage sack, and a mini-repair setup. No tears,
>>>abrasions, repairs, etc. Only used in freshwater, and cleaned/air dried
>>>after every use.
>>>   - https://www.alpackaraft.com/products/caribou
>>>   - Aquabound Whisky 4-piece fiberglass paddle in *sunwave*. This
>>>is *light* and packs down small for easy carrying on the bike. It
>>>was bought as a cosmetic second so its got some inconsistencies in the
>>>epoxy, but is structurally sound. There is one itty bitty chip in one of
>>>the paddles in the outermost layer, but otherwise pretty good condition.
>>>200cm length
>>>   - Whiskey Fiberglass 4-Piece Straight Shaft Kayak Paddle | Aqua
>>>   Bound
>>>   
>>> <https://aquabound.com/collections/packrafting-paddles/products/whiskey-fiberglass-4-piece-straight-shaft?variant=39485546692657>
>>>   - Not pictured, but a little waterproof holder to hang onto your
>>>phone, wallet, etc. very useful in keeping the important stuff dry.
>>>   - https://www.alpackaraft.com/products/lap-bag
>>>
>>> Backstory:
>>> I picked up the raft and paddle in mid-COVID (Spring 2021) and used it
>>> extensively with my appaloosa during my time in Sacramento - pedaling up
>>> the American River Trail to the Nimbus fish hatchery and then paddling down
>>> the river back to paradise beach in Sacramento (about 3-4 hours of
>>> leisurely floating). I also used it once

Re: [RBW] FS: Alpacka Packraft Setup + Aquabound Paddle

[Patrick Moore]

"They" is the unspecified general predicate, not "Rivendell."

On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 2:02 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... Do they make kayak-specific bikes?
>

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Re: [RBW] FS: Alpacka Packraft Setup + Aquabound Paddle

[Patrick Moore]

I'm not in the market, sorry, but I find that little inflatable very
interesting. Is the boat designed specifically for packing on a bike, then
floating the bike down river, then back to bike packing? I didn't know that
this combination was a thing.

And isn't the Appaloosa a long wheelbase model? Do they make kayak-specific
bikes? (Recall a long-ago Boblist member planning a custom small-wheel
backpacking bike for wilderness trips.)

The reason I'm interested is that my next door neighbor (ex Serotta brazer
back when Serotta built in steel and former roadie, but as a mail carrier
nearing 60 he now finds that his daily load carrying uses up his energy)
and his wife like to pack inflatable kayaks to the Rio Grande (the river is
about 1/2 mile East of my front door, but they pack the kayak/s north to a
Corrales entry point), float downriver about 6-8 miles, then take the other
car back to pick up the first car. I think *he* once or twice packed the
kayak north on his bike, locked bike, floated down, then drove back to pick
up bike.

If you or anyone else cares to post photos of kayak/boat excursions, I'd be
delighted to see them.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 1:16 PM Collin A  wrote:

> Folks,
>
> It is with a heavy feeling in my gut that I am posting my packraft setup
> for sale. I haven't used it since I moved away from Sacramento and I don't
> forsee it being something I continue with.
>
> Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wANwCsEVy5zK242K9
> Asking for $1000 shipped (plus 3% to cover G fees) for everything.
>
> You'll get:
>
>- Alpacka Carribou Bikerafting Raft - just the basic one (no bailer or
>internal storage) that comes in at about 5 lbs in blue. Comes with the
>seat, inflation bag, storage sack, and a mini-repair setup. No tears,
>abrasions, repairs, etc. Only used in freshwater, and cleaned/air dried
>after every use.
>   - https://www.alpackaraft.com/products/caribou
>   - Aquabound Whisky 4-piece fiberglass paddle in *sunwave*. This is
>*light* and packs down small for easy carrying on the bike. It was
>bought as a cosmetic second so its got some inconsistencies in the epoxy,
>but is structurally sound. There is one itty bitty chip in one of the
>paddles in the outermost layer, but otherwise pretty good condition. 200cm
>length
>   - Whiskey Fiberglass 4-Piece Straight Shaft Kayak Paddle | Aqua
>   Bound
>   
> <https://aquabound.com/collections/packrafting-paddles/products/whiskey-fiberglass-4-piece-straight-shaft?variant=39485546692657>
>   - Not pictured, but a little waterproof holder to hang onto your
>phone, wallet, etc. very useful in keeping the important stuff dry.
>   - https://www.alpackaraft.com/products/lap-bag
>
> Backstory:
> I picked up the raft and paddle in mid-COVID (Spring 2021) and used it
> extensively with my appaloosa during my time in Sacramento - pedaling up
> the American River Trail to the Nimbus fish hatchery and then paddling down
> the river back to paradise beach in Sacramento (about 3-4 hours of
> leisurely floating). I also used it once for camping up at Folsom lake
> Peninsula Campground, which was a hoot and mildly scary.
>
> It served as a great extension to my normal bike rides during the hot
> summer months and the weird time of COVID, and really opened up my eyes to
> what you can accomplish via bike. If you have a river near you, I'd
> strongly recommend giving it a shot.
>
> Collin in Riverless Berkeley
>
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Re: [RBW] It's New Bike What?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Corwin. I'm a pedal snob and love lightweight SPD-type pedals, and
there's a (earlier version?) pair of Micros on eBay for $25, but I just
read reviews of the Micros and apparently their cleats and SPD cleats
aren't compatible; too bad, since I have SPDs on all my bikes now.

Bike Radar weighed the Micro version they reviewed at 208 grams, lighter
even than the old Xpedo titanium spindle pedals with 180 lb weight limit in
my pedal stash, and a good 5 oz lighter than my go-to Dura Ace spds.

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 12:30 PM Corwin Zechar  wrote:

> Hi Patrick -
>
> Love the Richey Micros. They are one-sided and weighted to be in the
> optimal position when you want to clip in.
>
> I've had lots of Schwalbe tires. I get flats on almost every ride with
> G-Ones. But the Hurricanes have never flatted. I have them on three bikes
> now: Hubbuhubbuh, Custom and Quickbeam. I really like the cushy ride of
> supple tires. But a tire that flats nearly every time I ride is of no use
> to me. Reliability is very important to me.
>
> Regards,
>
> CZ
>
> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 11:03:40 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Lovely and intriguing! Certainly an eclectic build -- that's a positive.
>> How do you like the Hurricanes and the Ritchey Micros?
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 10:42 AM John Bokman  wrote:
>>
>>> That ride looks like so much fun! Love the color pop of the Red brakes
>>> on Purple frameset. Reminds me of days on my 1994 Maroon mustached XO-3.
>>> Also my 1990 MB2 (because it was also purple). Thanks for posting Corwin.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 3:30:25 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looks great, and I love the color, and the fat tires with
>>>> the Albastache combo.
>>>>
>>>> I think you win the Riv with the lowest bars award!
>>>>
>>>> Eric
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 2:03 AM Corwin Zechar  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's definitely not new bike day. That was back in the first week of
>>>>> February. Not even New Bike Month. So it's New Bike Quarter?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I picked up my much anticipated and long-awaited custom
>>>>> Rivendell last month. Some interesting aspects include:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) SRAM drop bar levers mounted on opposite sides (with respect to
>>>>> normal drop bar mounting) on Nitto Albastache bars - as suggested by Bill
>>>>> Lindsay.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) A Fizik Aliante Gamma saddle recovered by Mick Peel in Australia
>>>>> and sporting the Rivendell logo.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) A Rich Lesnik built wheelset with Onyx hubs and Velocity Quill rims.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) SRAM rear derailer and SRAM bar-end shifters.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5) Shimano Ultegra 6650 compact double crankset with TA Specialities
>>>>> chainrings
>>>>>
>>>>> 6) Chris King bottom bracket with outboard bearings.
>>>>>
>>>>> 7) DT Swiss skewers.
>>>>>
>>>>> 8) Custom lug carving by Mark Nobilette.
>>>>>
>>>>> 9) Ritchey Micro Road pedals.
>>>>>
>>>>> 10) Tektro CX 8.4 short-pull V-brakes.
>>>>>
>>>>> The main difference between my new custom and the old custom are the
>>>>> cantilever posts and lug carving.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can report that my new custom feels just like my old custom -
>>>>> wherever it is. I rode the bike in the Redlands Strada Rossa last Saturday
>>>>> and it performed flawlessly - despite my lack of experience on dirt roads
>>>>> and singletrack.
>>>>>
>>>>> A few photos illustrating the most salient aspects follow...
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Corwin
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: drivetrain.jpg][image: carvedLugs.jpg]
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-

Re: [RBW] It's New Bike What?

[Patrick Moore]

Lovely and intriguing! Certainly an eclectic build -- that's a positive.
How do you like the Hurricanes and the Ritchey Micros?

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 10:42 AM John Bokman  wrote:

> That ride looks like so much fun! Love the color pop of the Red brakes on
> Purple frameset. Reminds me of days on my 1994 Maroon mustached XO-3. Also
> my 1990 MB2 (because it was also purple). Thanks for posting Corwin.
>
> John
>
> On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 3:30:25 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> Looks great, and I love the color, and the fat tires with the Albastache
>> combo.
>>
>> I think you win the Riv with the lowest bars award!
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 2:03 AM Corwin Zechar  wrote:
>>
>>> It's definitely not new bike day. That was back in the first week of
>>> February. Not even New Bike Month. So it's New Bike Quarter?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I picked up my much anticipated and long-awaited custom
>>> Rivendell last month. Some interesting aspects include:
>>>
>>> 1) SRAM drop bar levers mounted on opposite sides (with respect to
>>> normal drop bar mounting) on Nitto Albastache bars - as suggested by Bill
>>> Lindsay.
>>>
>>> 2) A Fizik Aliante Gamma saddle recovered by Mick Peel in Australia and
>>> sporting the Rivendell logo.
>>>
>>> 3) A Rich Lesnik built wheelset with Onyx hubs and Velocity Quill rims.
>>>
>>> 4) SRAM rear derailer and SRAM bar-end shifters.
>>>
>>> 5) Shimano Ultegra 6650 compact double crankset with TA Specialities
>>> chainrings
>>>
>>> 6) Chris King bottom bracket with outboard bearings.
>>>
>>> 7) DT Swiss skewers.
>>>
>>> 8) Custom lug carving by Mark Nobilette.
>>>
>>> 9) Ritchey Micro Road pedals.
>>>
>>> 10) Tektro CX 8.4 short-pull V-brakes.
>>>
>>> The main difference between my new custom and the old custom are the
>>> cantilever posts and lug carving.
>>>
>>> I can report that my new custom feels just like my old custom - wherever
>>> it is. I rode the bike in the Redlands Strada Rossa last Saturday and it
>>> performed flawlessly - despite my lack of experience on dirt roads and
>>> singletrack.
>>>
>>> A few photos illustrating the most salient aspects follow...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Corwin
>>>
>>> [image: drivetrain.jpg][image: carvedLugs.jpg]
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a06f5b7c-d302-4630-975a-bd925b26cedan%40googlegroups.com
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>>> .
>>>
>> --
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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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Re: [RBW] Re: I have questions

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Jason, I'm particularly heartened by "noise doesn't translate into
slowness." I can live with pavement buzz.

On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 9:17 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> Patrick: I've run the Umtanum (650x55) in endurance casing, and have pals
> I ride with regularly on the full range basically - 650x42, 650x48, and
> 700x38 but all on the endurance casing. I plan to try the Extralight
> version next, but honestly the Endurance doesn't feel stiff nor heavy.
> Every one of my riding pals who've taken the plunge have been singing their
> praises loud and far, and seemingly everyone I ride with is going to them
> now as a result.
>
> I will agree that they are not particularly quiet on the road, even the
> claimed noise-cancelling models. They're not nearly as quiet as a Gravel
> King SK. I will say though that they have a pleasant enough tone, and that
> noise doesn't translate to slowness at all - coming to realize this is
> critical to enjoying them fully. Much like we're sort of pre-programmed to
> believe that the feedback of skinny tires translates to speed, even though
> we know better now, the same is true of the buzz from knobby tires. Thanks
> to Strava I can confidently say that I'm not appreciably slower on the RH
> knobbies, though if I don't need them I'd prefer the silence of the slicks.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 7:46 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Jason: Which RH knobbies, pray? I just scored a near-new, Normal Casing
>> pair of 622X48 (will be at least 50 on my rims) Oracle Ridges for $100
>> shipped, and Fat Tire Cycles will set them up tubeless on the new Velocity
>> Blunt SS wheelset for a dirt-biased wheelset for the dirt road Matthews.
>> The Soma Supple Vitesse SLs will remain on the original wheelset, for
>> pavement-biased riding but capable of shallower sand. But if Oracle Ridges
>> roll as well as RH claims for their knobbies, I may not have needed a
>> second wheelset ...
>>
>> Since my Kelpie fenders (a) were sized and sited for 60s, and so have at
>> least an inch of clearance over 50s, and (b) are, sheet metal and stays, at
>> least 50% thicker than your puny Honjos and Berthouds and VOs, I am going
>> to risk Oracles and fenders.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, who sped home from church just now on the very fast and
>> lively Nachess Pass EL wheelset on the other Matthews.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 6:32 PM Jason Fuller 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I am going to sow the seed now that the gravel & travel platy should
>>> run RH knobbies if no fenders - they are remarkably quick on pavement and a
>>> lifesaver on gravel and dirt. I run them on my Wombat which I ride on some
>>> challenging terrain and I've never felt the tires were a limiting factor
>>> yet!
>>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: I have questions

[Patrick Moore]

Jason: Which RH knobbies, pray? I just scored a near-new, Normal Casing
pair of 622X48 (will be at least 50 on my rims) Oracle Ridges for $100
shipped, and Fat Tire Cycles will set them up tubeless on the new Velocity
Blunt SS wheelset for a dirt-biased wheelset for the dirt road Matthews.
The Soma Supple Vitesse SLs will remain on the original wheelset, for
pavement-biased riding but capable of shallower sand. But if Oracle Ridges
roll as well as RH claims for their knobbies, I may not have needed a
second wheelset ...

Since my Kelpie fenders (a) were sized and sited for 60s, and so have at
least an inch of clearance over 50s, and (b) are, sheet metal and stays, at
least 50% thicker than your puny Honjos and Berthouds and VOs, I am going
to risk Oracles and fenders.

Patrick Moore, who sped home from church just now on the very fast and
lively Nachess Pass EL wheelset on the other Matthews.

On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 6:32 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> ... I am going to sow the seed now that the gravel & travel platy should
> run RH knobbies if no fenders - they are remarkably quick on pavement and a
> lifesaver on gravel and dirt. I run them on my Wombat which I ride on some
> challenging terrain and I've never felt the tires were a limiting factor
> yet!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: I have questions

[Patrick Moore]

I have both dynamo lights and good battery lights and each have their
advantages. But IME, with quite a few hub, bottle, and bb dynamos, good hub
dynamos -- mid-level Shimano upward -- don't cause noticeable drag; at
least, I don't notice it, and one of my systems is a hi-po K-Lite system
which I always run on High. Bb dynamos are a wee bit noticeable but not
horrible; and even cheap Sanyo bottles aren't *that* bad -- like riding
into a modest headwind or up a very slight grade. They're *not* like Bart
Simpson's dynamo.

And wires can be neatly tucked away; not really a problem if arranged
properly.

I do always back up my dynamos with a good battery headlight, if only to
use as a flashlight in the event of roadside repairs. (Tho' the capacitor
of the Edeluxe I is pretty poor -- about 30 seconds bright, then another
minute of dim light -- another reason for a good auxiliary battery lamp,
for long intersections. The capacitor on the K-Lite -- in a separate box
the size of a box of Marlboros -- will still be glowing dimly 150 minutes
after you get home.)

Patrick Moore, who just rode home from church [first week in Lent] noticing
no drag a-tall from his SON 20R and first-gen Edeluxe with 2 wired-in tail
lights.

On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 6:13 PM Johnny Alien 
wrote:

> I actually forgot all about that. I had read a large and very nerdy
> article on this recently. The reason why this hasn't taken off is because
> its not really practical or efficient to charge a phone with the dynamo.
> Most phones have software that throttle low level charges like what you
> would get from a dynamo. I have been becoming a big fan of battery lights
> as well. They have so many lighting options and stay charged for a really
> long time. And battery packs are really easy to keep with you if you go
> longer. Easier than all of the wires and drag that a dynamo brings. BUT
> there is something to be said to always 100% having a light read to go if
> you need it.

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[RBW] ISO/WTB/WTT: Tange (or other) good quality 127 mm square taper bb with ~2 mm right offset.

[Patrick Moore]

The headline says it: does anyone have anything like this, Tange or
otherwise?

This sort of bb is the most efficient for my Matthews Road Bike For Dirt,
giving good chainline with no excess crankarm clearance.

I have a 130 mm Phil with ~200 mile bearings and a NIP 125 mm Suntour
Greaseguard bb to negotiate with in trade.

Thanks, Patrick

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Re: [RBW] How do I know when a saddle fits?

[Patrick Moore]

I'm sorry to hear that, but I am confident that you can find a solution.
IME, saddle comfort depends as much on saddle setup -- height, setback,
tilt -- and on body position when your ride -- thus bar shape and position
-- as it does on saddle shape.

My own test is, "did I think about the saddle during my ride?" If I don't
think about it on a ride of typical length, then I judge the saddle a
success. Of course, what "disappears" for 20 or 30 miles may come back with
a vengeance after 50 or 100 miles, so one has to take into account all of
one's riding.

Perhaps you might consider getting a professional bike fit? Really, if I
were in your situation, I'd consider this money well spent.

Good luck, and let us know what happens.

Patrick "Original Flites and only original Flites" Moore

On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 2:00 PM Emily Guise  wrote:

> Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a saddle
> that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always ended
> up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really limited
> my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the C
> canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a
> saddle that won't hurt.
>
> I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic,
> cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of
> the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a
> central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for
> around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured.
>
> It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly comfortable
> long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I figured I'd ask
> the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it "disappear"? Was it
> love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot before finding the
> ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you ride before it
> becomes uncomfortable?
>
> I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look for
> in the next saddle I try out. Thanks!
>
>
> --
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] I have questions

[Patrick Moore]

To take into account George's experience: I do use widish rims for the
48s/50s: 27 mm IW Velocity Blunt SS's. But at 20 the Soma SV SLs handle
wonderfully on pavement. I agree that as the tires get fatter and the
pressures lower, small pressure differences make a big difference in
handling.

On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 5:03 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Agree, tho' IME a 48 mm tire will require considerably less pressure than
> a 42. I'm 170-175 and put ~35 psi in 42s but only 20 in 48s (that measure
> 50 on my rims); this for pavement riding, very supple tires. A lighter
> rider can use less.
>
> Jan has shown (and my Big Ones also show) that width does not necessarily
> affect rolling resistance. What width does do, IME, is reduce the
> "nimbleness" of handling.
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 1:15 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
>> The actual speed difference between a similar quality 48mm and a 42mm
>> will be extremely small - I wouldn't sweat it at all! Probably like 0.1 mph
>> difference. Most of the perceived difference is all in our heads, based on
>> the squish-factor and the buzz they make on pavement, neither of which
>> necessarily relate to speed. I would simply air them up to the same
>> pressure you run on your 42mm tires for the speedy rides. The Gravel King
>> is a reasonably quick tire, no concerns there to me.
>>
>
>

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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Re: [RBW] I have questions

[Patrick Moore]

Agree, tho' IME a 48 mm tire will require considerably less pressure than a
42. I'm 170-175 and put ~35 psi in 42s but only 20 in 48s (that measure 50
on my rims); this for pavement riding, very supple tires. A lighter rider
can use less.

Jan has shown (and my Big Ones also show) that width does not necessarily
affect rolling resistance. What width does do, IME, is reduce the
"nimbleness" of handling.

On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 1:15 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> The actual speed difference between a similar quality 48mm and a 42mm will
> be extremely small - I wouldn't sweat it at all! Probably like 0.1 mph
> difference. Most of the perceived difference is all in our heads, based on
> the squish-factor and the buzz they make on pavement, neither of which
> necessarily relate to speed. I would simply air them up to the same
> pressure you run on your 42mm tires for the speedy rides. The Gravel King
> is a reasonably quick tire, no concerns there to me.
>

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Re: [RBW] I have questions

[Patrick Moore]

The 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones that used to be on my dirt road Matthews were
among the very fastest-rolling tires I've used, including various "racing"
tires and 2 extralight RH models. I'd say that the right 48 mm tire will
roll plenty fast.

I've not used any Gravel Kings.

Patrick "it's not my tires that make me slow" Moore

On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:10 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace? I have 42 on all my
> other bikes. Would 48s be slow? The ride is a 2 day event, 100 miles total.
> I’d like to keep the tires if I could, because they’re new and they are fat
> enough to also double as gravel tires, should I decide to do a gravel ride
> again. But I do more road rides than anything else, and if those 48s will
> cripple me, I’ll go back to 42s. What’s the consensus?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Patrick Moore]

ch way the cage is oriented,
> with no additional takeup. Berto's belief is/was that Simplex had made a
> nice livelihood for themselves making single-pulley derailleurs, and didn't
> want to alienate their racing customers by making derailleurs that worked
> wildly differently. So they made single-pulley derailleurs with two pulleys.
>
> Unfortunately for the hobbyist, Berto's contempt for the design means that
> he doesn't speak at all about making them work. 60+ years after they
> vanished from the marketplace, it's almost impossible to find any
> documentation on configuration, other than the original instructions
> included in the packages written in midcentury flowery French or English
> that's hard for most people (well, for me at least) to translate to
> instructions I can use. Most of the technicians who learned how to do it
> the official way BITD are now dead. Those of us who get them sorta-working
> mostly do so through dumb luck; my addition of a couple of extra links
> beyond the Shimano big-big +1 parallelogram measurement suddenly gained me
> the ability to reach 7 out of 10 gears, where I had only been able to do a
> single speed beforehand. A datapoint for the the tricks file.
>
> Peter "wall of text!" Adler
> Berkeley, California/USA
>
> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 8:25:00 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> BTW, Grant is wrong in the March 2022 blog about the second lever for the
> Simplex pullchain rd. It is indeed meant to take up or relax chain tension,
> but not because the derailleur didn't do that. The Simplex, like the
> Benelux, has a coil spring under that spiral ribbon spring -- both springs
> encircle a shaft over which the derailleur cage is pulled -- and the coil
> spring provides both in and out tension and cage tension (to put tension on
> the chain): you have to wind up the cage clockwise by not quite 360* when
> installing the chain, which is a real pain.
>
> The chain tension lever allowed you to fine tune this chain tension; in
> fact, to minimize it while still keeping enough so that the chain stayed on
> the chosen cog; this because, back then, at least some people thought that
> a tensioned chain caused a great deal of friction in the drivetrain.
>
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid rise derailleur suggestion

[Patrick Moore]

Interesting information about derailleur design history. But I read the
"normal" in "low-normal" or "high-normal" as simply "relaxed spring" and
not as "the way it ought to work."

My 2010 (purchased IIRC in 2011 or so) Sam Hill came with a "low-normal" LX
rd, and it was one of the best shifting rds I've used (first-gen Silver bar
end shifters) -- but that was simply because it was a mature-design
Shimano. I fully expect that I'd have gotten used to the reversed spring
action, but I didn't feel like doing so and sold it, and replaced it with
an equally good-shifting Micoshift road rd. (All modern rds are among the
best-shifting rds I've ever used.)

I did somehow manage to find a NOS "low-normal" Cyclo Benelux rd on a bike
shop in Nairobi in 1970 and used it on a makeshift 2-speed SA AW block
(after shimming out the cage to accommodate a 1/8" chain). That too worked
fine, over 2 cogs but then I had removed the outer chainring (50 t IIRC;
that left the 40 t inner) and front shifter so I had only 1 derailleur
movement to keep track of.

Frank Berto's early 2000's book, "The Dancing Chain" was a wonderful,
thorough but very readable historical overview of derailleur systems from
the turn of the 19th century up to at least the 8 speed era.

Patrick Moore, who likes the term "shifting pope."

On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 4:32 AM Peter Adler  wrote:

> To be nitpicky, "high normal"/"low normal" is terminology that's
> meaningful primarily for parallelogram derailleurs. We operate as if those
> are the only derailleurs that exist because parallelogram derailleurs
> (mostly developed as extrapolations and knockoffs of Campagnolo's 1951 Gran
> Sport, with important upper pivot developments by Simplex and then
> extensive advancement by Shimano and Suntour) have essentially eliminated
> the phantasmigorical range of derailleur designs that existed before 1960.
>
> Consider the Cyclo, a 1930s design employed widely by French framebuilders
> for both touring and townie bikes. The derailleur mounts under the
> driveside chainstay, and has no spring action at all - a single looping
> cable caused a helical shaft to pull the derailleur's pulley cage in one
> direction or the other, and the cage goes however far you pull it. In the
> case of the Cyclo, or other derailleurs in the category Jan Heine refers to
> as "desmodromic" such as the Nivex Rene Herse is duplicating at (I'm sure)
> great expense, there is no "normal"; there is no position to which the
> derailleur cage returns when cable tension is released because cable
> tension is equal throughout the derailleur's range. There is no spring to
> return the cage to a point of stasis.
>
> https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/french_patent_582247_-_cyclo.html
>
> Our understanding that a "normal" derailleur state is conditioned by the
> derailleurs which which we each have personal experience is easy to forget.
> A couple years ago, Grant published a blahg item commenting on a 1950s
> French racer brought in by our mutual acquaintance Ted Trambley of
> Martinez, whom I know from CR primarily as a hobbyist restorer like myself.
> He had brought in an early 1950s Alcyon (a marque which won a fair number
> of Tours de France in the 1920s-30s) equipped with a Huret suicide front
> derailleur (a mutual interest of Grant's and mine; I got Grant's
> reassembled after an attempted cloner had sent it back from Australia in
> pieces) and a Huret Louison Bobet rear derailleur. That rear derailleur
> fits into a category I call "pullchain", because I haven't seen another
> generic name for the type; the shift cable pulls a chain which goes through
> the derailleur body to the pulley cage, and increasing tension on the
> shifter+cable+chain draws the pulley cage outwards towards the body of the
> derailleur projecting outward from the frame, with counteracting pressure
> from a sort of flat clock-type spring.
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/late-march-3
>
> Grant's post gets excited about the fact that this means that relaxing
> cable tension means the pulley cage goes inwards towards the large cog -
> i.e., a "low normal"/"rapid-rise" derailleur. What he doesn't comment on is
> the fact that in the 40s-50s there were dozens of derailleur models from
> multiple companies in multiple countries (including Japan; the first
> Shimano and Suntour derailleurs were knockoffs of Simplex pullchain
> derailleurs) that did exactly the same thing, because that's just how the
> design works. Pullchain rears were the most common format of racing
> derailleur in the era, until enough teams bought Campagnolo's parallelogram
> derailleurs to displace t

Re: [RBW] Ride Reports - Where You Defied the Weather

[Patrick Moore]

h the snow at its strongest point.  I pulled up my neck
> gaiter to cover my cheeks from the sharp pellets.  I rang my bell a few
> times and laughed out loud; a very clear moment I'll recall for some time.
>
> At the halfway point I turned right into town and caught some tailwind,
> and a bit of sun.  I filled my water bottle and bought a Snickers at a gas
> station.  Still snowing but not as bad.  The wind also died down a bit; of
> course, I'm now riding home, down hill and down wind.  Last 20km home were
> on soaked roads, riding through puddles at times, but as it was still
> early, very little traffic and the sun ahead of me, peaking through the
> clouds here and there.
>
> When I got home the chain was dripping in black gunk.  A quick wipe with a
> shop rag and I brought the Fargo down to the basement for cleaning.  I've
> never had a bike so easy to clean: huge clearances mean wiping down the
> frame is a breeze.  One chain ring is easier to clean than two.   I look
> over to Leo, happy again that she stayed home.
>
> I'm thankful I have the Fargo as it's not just my trail bike (I don't
> like/own flat bar mountain bikes, so this bike's main role is no
> non-technical trails in town), but is also my all-weather bike (to a
> certain point, but studded tires and fenders may be installed next
> winter).  If I didn't have the Fargo I probably would have still went for
> the ride on Leo, but when the weather turned I would have been thinking too
> much (rim brakes, cornering on slick-ish tires, and the clean up
> afterwards, of this beautiful bike), and may have turned around early.  I'm
> fortunate to own a few bikes.
>
> That's it!  I realize this was far from epic, but I got a lot out of the
> ride (mentally) and wanted to share.  I look forward to reading your tales,
> epic or otherwise ;-)
>
>
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> .
>


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[RBW] SOLD [Brooks "Brick Lane" panniers, VG, black, $115 + shipping]

[Patrick Moore]

On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 2:47 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> 30 liters capacity, black, heavy, very sturdy cotton canvas, lined, very
> little used, only signs of use some dust and the 1/4-height coroplast
> stiffeners I riveted in. They hold a surprising amount for their nominal
> size.
>
> The panniers are joined and drape over the rack to which they attach via
> leather straps on the underside of the joining fabric. Leather straps close
> the flaps and there are interior compartment straps to help hold loads
> together.
>
> These work better with some racks instead of others. With my somewhat
> minimalist rack, the trailing bottom edges would brush the spokes when the
> bags were heavily loaded so I riveted in 1/4-height coroplast stiffeners. 
> *Note
> that the stiffeners prevent the bags from being rolled up; see photo.* That
> didn't bother me but you should be aware of this.
>
> My loss is your gain. I traded a nice Rivendell Sackville Medium saddlebag
> for these, and they're very nice, but with my rack the heels of my size 10s
> occasionally flick the forward edges as I pedal when the bags are loaded.
>
> $115 plus actual shipping cost, *net to me, please.*
>
> Please reply offlist.
>
> Thanks, Patrick Moore
>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Patrick Moore]

Nice Roadini, lovely build, and I'm glad it has turned out so well for you.
The Roadini certainly gets high praise from high-mileage riders.

Roadini:Fargo:Cross Check: interesting observations. One might thing that
with fat, low pressure tires the frame and fork won't materially affect
ride smoothness, but I had a somewhat similar experience when I replaced my
(2010??) steel Fargo with the current 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt."
Both take 60s with fenders, both had the same ultra-extra-light-and-supple
450-gram 60 mm Big Ones on the same Velocity Blunt SS rims, but I
immediately noticed that with these wheels, the Matthews smoothed out
stutter bumps and felt definitely smoother than the same wheels/tires on
the Fargo. The Fargo is overbuilt of course, and the fork is *hugely*
overbuilt,
while the Matthews is built of OS but thinwall tubing with a fork that has
slender, nicely "French curve" legs (discs; nope, no problems).

Meandering on re: Fargo: I had a second wheelset with ~33 mm Kojaks; the
Fargo handled -- well, not like a Rivendell, but decently; the 1.35 Kojaks
made it quicker in turns but didn't harm stability, at least, I didn't
notice it. But really, the Big Ones rolled much better on pavement than the
Kojaks, decent tho' the Kojaks are.

Back to the Roadini: I've been told by several people, talking about the
Roadeo, when I was thinking of getting one, that it had tubing too stout
and stiff for good road bike feel. And doesn't the Roadini have stouter
tubing yet? So to hear such praise for the Roadini tells me, I think, that
the difference between stout, stiff tubing and thinwall, normal diameter
tubing is by no means the main factor in smoothness and "liveliness." Again
and again, experienced riders praise the low-budget Clem for its liveliness
and smoothness. And yet, that 2003 Rivendell Curt custom Road *was* too
stiff, compared to the thinner wall, normal gauge Matthews clone that
replaced it -- my quads proved it. Upshot: I don't understand all this.



Long ago on the thread, Jay  wrote:
*The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of
things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross
Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love
it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much
lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit
issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth,
maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up
to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the
cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little
suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an
option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime
the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly
streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails
where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter
the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated
way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I
recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.
Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went
where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line
predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift
with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was
very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two
gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable
using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and
the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my
road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch
below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs
discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does
not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim
brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape
with gel pad under was perfect for my hands.  I like cush, and this set up
is really good (for me).  The mechanic dialled in the wrap and gel
placement with these hoods.  The 30F/32R gearing is perfect for the
steepest hills where this bike will be ridden.  I've went on long enough so
I'll stop there.  Word of the day - "smooth" :-)*


Patrick Moore, grimly bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM.

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[RBW] Re: Brooks "Brick Lane" panniers, VG, black, $115 + shipping

[Patrick Moore]

I should add this: 13.8 wide X 4.7 "thick" X 14.2 high in American Freedom
Units or 360 mm wide X 120 mm "thick" X 360 mm.

https://www.brooksengland.com/en_us/brick-lane-pannier.html

On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 2:47 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> 30 liters capacity, black, heavy, very sturdy cotton canvas, lined, very
> little used, only signs of use some dust and the 1/4-height coroplast
> stiffeners I riveted in. They hold a surprising amount for their nominal
> size.
>
> The panniers are joined and drape over the rack to which they attach via
> leather straps on the underside of the joining fabric. Leather straps close
> the flaps and there are interior compartment straps to help hold loads
> together.
>
> These work better with some racks instead of others. With my somewhat
> minimalist rack, the trailing bottom edges would brush the spokes when the
> bags were heavily loaded so I riveted in 1/4-height coroplast stiffeners. 
> *Note
> that the stiffeners prevent the bags from being rolled up; see photo.* That
> didn't bother me but you should be aware of this.
>
> My loss is your gain. I traded a nice Rivendell Sackville Medium saddlebag
> for these, and they're very nice, but with my rack the heels of my size 10s
> occasionally flick the forward edges as I pedal when the bags are loaded.
>
> $115 plus actual shipping cost, *net to me, please.*
>
> Please reply offlist.
>
> Thanks, Patrick Moore
>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2024

[Patrick Moore]

Obviously the Chris King Headset Composite Index has gone through the roof.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 6:37 PM Josh C  wrote:

> wow
>
> On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 3:33:10 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> $7000  In a word, HA!  At least they are taking offers...
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 12:28:26 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:
>>
>>> Heron Touring
>>> 55cm
>>> $7000
>>> Walled Lake, Michigan
>>> Rare rare rare parts like Titanium Chris King headset, Nitto racks, and
>>> full Campagnolo...
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/176156925449?itmmeta=01HRQFP37XW2ZW9W57MX91XV8H=item2903c55e09:g:1-QAAOSwlT9le1Vr=enc%3AAQAI4A7jbJYmJLb0qhGidg8sdvoie5vcUpIvYrS%2BSMvrLJLvPiSDvKpjMsaHlJTCd1soc%2BS7lyI3DhBCJIMPjYbsw%2Bz2jx3FF1A8HaYOsrSGCGDojnJMNqrJC9m0GJvRkaVV7ejS4wIjNmkGPkl5PLpOEQlbXY8ub8%2FhPJelndP333HN%2B5YXfIBsGZBcK%2BedK1MLmQWY7kHqX4c4AzxDVzG%2B1rJVrllsTotNUBw2pKEhm%2BQDzzEV4sTfCquOQ0jScQhSElZQaXk3KjAGccNhRMGhT54kCgPjyFiebEPpJtvqbTfN%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4C02O_FYw
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 5:36:38 PM UTC-5 Matthew Williams wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roadini
>>>> 57cm
>>>> 2000
>>>> Emeryville, CA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/emeryville-rivendell-leo-roadini/7720529232.html
>>>>
>>> --
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> .
>


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Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho... stem question

[Patrick Moore]

+1 for the Ritchey Force stems; IME they clamp bars more immovably than
single-bolt Nitto stems possibly because of their wider clamps.

And +1 for using 25.4 mm steel stems with 26.0 bars. I used to regularly
install 26.4 ("point 4") mm Cinelli Giro d'Italias into Salsa and Tioga
mountain bike stems with 25.4 clamps in order to get them high enough on
low-stack mountain bikes and XO-1. I never had problems getting the bar's
curves around the wide, square clamps, or afterward while riding the
combination. I do think that, as I did later, Nitto Dirt Drop stems or
customs -- I had a couple made by Salsa -- are better.

And +1 for not prying wider a forged aluminum stem.


On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 10:11 PM iamkeith  wrote:

> FWIW, from many years of doing so, I'll second the suggestion (not a
> promise or recommendation - disclaimer and all that) that 25.4 stems CAN
> work ok with 26.0 bars.  But the only ones Ive had scuccess with are
> high-end steel stems with a single bolt clamp.  They tend to have thinner
> steel that can bend and conform to the larger diameter bars.  Especially
> the Salsa ones, but also the Ritchey Force ones being discussed here.  I
> don't want to discourage you from trying - and it's a relatively cheap
> experiment - but I'm less certain it'll work with a removable faceplate
> construction.  Less of the material around the clamp circumference is
> un-restrained and free to flex.  It might work BETTER - I just don’t know.
> Tighten slowly and methodically, and watch to make sure that it's the steel
> stem that gets deformed, and not the aluminum handlebar.  I know it's not
> your current plan, but don't pry open a forged aluminum stem to fit a
> bigger bar.  Lastly,  the safe option is still a 31.8 faceplater stem with
> a 26.0 shim.  I get it if you want to try a 26.0 stem first though.  Just
> please let us know how it works out.

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Re: [RBW] Anyone else not a fan of the very long chainstays?

[Patrick Moore]

The point of long chainstay "grousers" may be that so many of the
shorter-stayed Rivendells were such wonderfully handling bikes. I for one
am very, very glad that I learned what "perfect" road bike handling can be
with 4 ~44.5 cm-stayed Rivendell road bikes and a first-gen Sam Hillborne.

I've not ridden a current-gen long-stayed Rivendell; the Clems get very
good reviews from many surprising quarters (Patrick O'Grady) and it's one I
keep near the top of the mental "you might think of getting this" list. I
expect long stays add many benefits to ride and "feel." But I'd hesitate to
add another 5 cm to the 45 cm stays (to end of dropout) of my benchmark
remaining Riv Road custom -- because it's perfect as-is.

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Re: [RBW] Trip Report: Death Valley February 2024

[Patrick Moore]

e bliss.
>
> I love the sound of rain on a tent fly, and we would get some nice
> sprinkles throughout the night. Mike and I were riding by 7am. Today it
> rained off and on all day which kept the temperatures nice and cool. Mike
> and I would need to push our bicycles through the sandiest of all washes
> encountered on the trip. We would actually pass by running water, but it’s
> not something I would count on. It might have only been flowing in response
> to the rain.
>
> Mike and I would climb about 1800 feet through really pretty canyons and
> make it up to Secret Pass by about 9:30am. Then we would finally “bomb”
> down the hill. However, from all the rain, the road had turned slick and
> muddy. I’m sure if it wasn’t for the rain we would have been riding 30-35
> mph *easily.* As it was, I was hitting my brakes so much to make sure I
> didn’t get too much speed and wipe out. We are *cold *when we get to the
> bottom from not pedaling for 5 miles (dropping 1400 feet) and getting
> rained on. I’m not sure if the rain picked up or it was just our speed that
> made more rain hit us?
>
> While we were pushing and riding through Tarantula Canyon, Ran rode back
> from Beatty to Spicer Ranch to get the car saving Mike and I 8 miles of
> riding. Ran met us in Beatty and we were able to shower at his motel room
> before driving back to Reno. I spent a good 10 minutes under the hairdryer
> warming myself back up. Pure bliss.
>
> If I were to do this trip again I would change the following:
> 1) Tubeless and wider tires (50-55mm).
> 2) Stashing water at Echo Canyon (or bringing 7-8 L of water)
> 3) Leaving the car in Beatty rather than Spicer Ranch for the start of Day
> 2.
>
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] Best Rivendell for pavement riding

[Patrick Moore]

The other way to discover what you really want to ride is to buy a lot of
bikes that sort of look like what you want (you are not sure what you
want), upgrade them all, repeat several times as you try to perfect
previously unrealized imperfections, then sell them at a loss. Do this for
a couple of decades, then buy customs. This method costs a bit more than
the other one.

But yes, ride lots of Rivendells. All those I've owned (I bought 5
including a 2nd-gen Ram and kept one that will turn 25 in April) all had a
certain common handling and "feel" in common. And I do think that a Ram, if
you don't want to spring for a Roadeo, might well be what you are looking
for.


On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 7:39 PM Corwin Zechar  wrote:

> ... Ride lots of bikes - Rivendells if possible. Think carefully about
> what you want. Don't be afraid to try different things. Meditate on the
> differences. And most of all, practice patience if you are looking for a
> Ram.
>

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Re: [RBW] Best Rivendell for pavement riding

[Patrick Moore]

The Ram is indeed a worthy contender, but I was thinking of current models
(I think those I listed are current ...?)

On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 3:49 PM Corwin Zechar  wrote:

> Patrick -
>
> You forgot the Ram!
>
> Regards,
>
> Corwni
> On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 2:23:07 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Roadeo, Roadini, Sam, Homer, and the Nitto Noodle?
>>
>> FWIW, after having used any number of drop bars, my favorite is the Maes
>> Parallel, available from Rene Herse but not from Rivendell. (Rivendell
>> ought to offer it!)
>>
>> Patrick Moore, present and former owner of 5 Rivendell drop bar
>> road/roady-ish bikes
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 11:56 AM Chuck Blessing  wrote:
>>
>>> I really like the Rivendell approach to bikes and bike technology with
>>> the idea of a more upright posture and a long wheelbase for long rides at a
>>> comfortable pace, but it seems like the models all lean heavily to what
>>> they call "country bikes."  I like to ride from my house, and that means
>>> riding almost exclusively on smooth (mostly) pavement. Can anyone suggest
>>> which models are better suited for road riding? Reading and comparing the
>>> descriptions, it seems that the Homer might be a good choice, or possibly
>>> the Appaloosa or Atlantis? Or the new Charlie Gallop, though I haven't
>>> heard much about how it is supposed to ride? I tried a Roadini (which I
>>> recently listed here and sold), but I think it was too big for me. I never
>>> felt comfortable on it. Maybe I just needed it in the right size.
>>>
>>> I would like the bike to work well with drop bars because of the
>>> multiple hand positions and they're just what I'm used to. I tried a bike
>>> with swept bars recently, but found I wasn't comfortable on longer rides.
>>> And when riding on streets with minimal shoulder width, I felt like I was
>>> going to catch the end of them on mailboxes or other obstacles. Maybe
>>> there's a handlebar in Rivendell's catalog that works well for road riding?
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate any comments, especially if someone does this type of
>>> riding and has tried several of these models. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
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Re: [RBW] Best Rivendell for pavement riding

[Patrick Moore]

Roadeo, Roadini, Sam, Homer, and the Nitto Noodle?

FWIW, after having used any number of drop bars, my favorite is the Maes
Parallel, available from Rene Herse but not from Rivendell. (Rivendell
ought to offer it!)

Patrick Moore, present and former owner of 5 Rivendell drop bar
road/roady-ish bikes

On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 11:56 AM Chuck Blessing  wrote:

> I really like the Rivendell approach to bikes and bike technology with the
> idea of a more upright posture and a long wheelbase for long rides at a
> comfortable pace, but it seems like the models all lean heavily to what
> they call "country bikes."  I like to ride from my house, and that means
> riding almost exclusively on smooth (mostly) pavement. Can anyone suggest
> which models are better suited for road riding? Reading and comparing the
> descriptions, it seems that the Homer might be a good choice, or possibly
> the Appaloosa or Atlantis? Or the new Charlie Gallop, though I haven't
> heard much about how it is supposed to ride? I tried a Roadini (which I
> recently listed here and sold), but I think it was too big for me. I never
> felt comfortable on it. Maybe I just needed it in the right size.
>
> I would like the bike to work well with drop bars because of the multiple
> hand positions and they're just what I'm used to. I tried a bike with swept
> bars recently, but found I wasn't comfortable on longer rides. And when
> riding on streets with minimal shoulder width, I felt like I was going to
> catch the end of them on mailboxes or other obstacles. Maybe there's a
> handlebar in Rivendell's catalog that works well for road riding?
>
> I'd appreciate any comments, especially if someone does this type of
> riding and has tried several of these models. Thanks.
>
> Chuck
>
> --
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> .
>


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[RBW] ISO Rene Herse Oracle Ridge or Fleecer Ridge tires, VG condition, EL or Regular models

[Patrick Moore]

I'm still undecided what tire to use -- ~50 ~60 mm knobbies or 60 mm slicks
-- on the new second wheelset for the "road bike for dirt" Matthews, and
I'll let the market decide: I'm looking for either the extralight or the
regular flavor models in vg used condition. Not interested in Endurance or
Endurance Plus.

Have things to trade as well as cash.

Until someone makes an offer, I'll use the Big Ones I've still got stored
away.

Oh: Can anyone with a pair of mounted Fleecer Ridge tires tell me how tall
they are? For comparison, the 60 mm Big Ones are 29 1/2" tall. (Width: 61
mm actual tubeless after much use on 27 mm IW rims at sub 20 psi.) I'm
interested in clearance under the fender and the fork crown.

Thanks.

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Re: [RBW] Going really large on Clems

[Patrick Moore]

You might find this site helpful for comparing stems:
http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

Back in the pre-internet days I used to create little cardboard template
stems to gauge the differences I'd need, and this method worked well, but I
always used the same model of drop bar. But  a degree in philosophy didn't
stop me.


On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 11:59 AM Paul Donald  wrote:

> ... I've been trying to figure out a formula for calculating stem/bar
> combos using my commuter bike set up in order to apply it to a bike with a
> very long ETT. Sadly I realized I have a masters in fine arts degree
> instead. After years of drops and flat bars I seem to be settling into
> swept back bars slightly above saddle height. My commuter bike (New Albion
> Privateer) uses Soma Oxford bars and the hand position is one that I keep
> returning to. The Oxfords are very close to the Riv Albatross. What I don't
> like about the Privateer is horizontal dropouts, toe overlap, and absence
> of kickstand plate (or even a space to easily fit a stand near the BB).
>
> At 6', I'm long torso, average arms and legs, and not frightened of high
> standover but I resisted looking at the two very nice 59 Clem H's that are
> being sold because I am wanting that looong wheel base, step-over life.
>
> It might be best for me to stick to a 59, even though 64's are more
> readily found as frame sets, which is what I want in order to soak up the
> excess parts I have... I've been reading posts here regarding Clem vs
> Platypus since that might be worth considering. I like the utilitarian look
> of the Clems with the flourish of curve in the TT. The Platy's look
> fabulous, but push my budget too high.
>

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Re: [RBW] WTB 650B Dynamo Wheel & Question About Alex Rims

[Patrick Moore]

I think my erstwhile Monocog 29er came with DM 24 rims; perfectly fine
rims; they gave me no problems.

On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 11:59 AM Dennis Wong  wrote:

> Thanks all for the info. I believe this is actually an Alex DM24, not a
> DM18.
>
> I am going to try to find a local wheel builder that can take this wheel
> apart and rebuild it with a Shimano dynamo - that way I don't have another
> set of wheels (or a spart front wheel) lying around as Josh mentions.  I
> cleaned up the wheel and there is some discoloration/oxidation around some
> of the spoke holes - doesn't look like a real crack.
>
> Anybody know of a wheel builder in Southern California (LA/OC)?  Golden
> Saddle closed.
>
> Thank you.
>
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 8:22 AM tio ryan  wrote:
>
>> I appreciate that info, Josh! I'm in a similar situation with my Platypus
>> — I'd like to add a dynamo, but I don't necessarily want to have mismatched
>> rims, nor do I want my original front wheel just hanging on the wall. I had
>> no idea what it'd cost to have the hub swapped on the existing wheel.
>>
>> On Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 1:14:37 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe just have someone lace a dyno hub into that existing wheel. I just
>>> did this for my wife's platy and, other than buying a dyno hub, the work
>>> only cost me $50. Beats buying another wheel just to have the original
>>> hanging in my garage.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 12:15:12 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> Congrats on the new Clem. That's the model that I've most thought about
>>>> recently. Perhaps one day ...
>>>>
>>>> I've ridden Alex rims on 2 Redline Monocog 29ers and based on those I'd
>>>> say that Redline makes good, workmanlike modestly priced rims that are
>>>> really all that most of us need. 584 (millimeters) is the "bead seat
>>>> diameter," the diameter of the rim where the tire bead sits, thus a measure
>>>> of the inner tire bead diameter, and thus further a quick-reference for
>>>> tire height (which of course varies almost infinetly according to tire
>>>> width); the 650B designation is an ancient French and nowadays confusing
>>>> name for precisely that bead seat diameter, so that 650B = 584 mm bsd.
>>>> 650B/584 bsd tires and rims are sortof kindof halfway between "road
>>>> wheels/tires" or 700c/622 bsd and "twenty six inch wheels", of which there
>>>> are too many varieties to enumerate here but which commonly refers to the
>>>> most common mountain bike wheel 20 and 30 years ago with a 559 mm bsd.
>>>>
>>>> DM 18? I don't know but I'd guess that 18 mm is the inner width of the
>>>> rim. Others can correct as necessary.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 9:51 AM Dennis Wong 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Purchased my first Riv, a mustard colored Clem Jr H!
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the bike has the original 650B wheels marked Alex Rims.  The
>>>>> are about 31mm wide.  I'd was thinking of having someone build a new,
>>>>> matching front wheel with a dynamo.  I looked at the Velocity and Alex Rim
>>>>> sites.  Other than the Rivendell Site
>>>>> <https://www.rivbike.com/products/zz1133klz-fghn-a-n8> (650B/27.5/584
>>>>> x DM18 x Shimano hubs) I don't see much on the web about these rims.  
>>>>> (What
>>>>> does the 584 and DM18 mean?)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>> --
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: REI "Microlite" insulated stainless steel water bottles with full cover over spout

[Patrick Moore]

<$5 = good deal!

Note to all: These are a wee bit bigger in diameter than your standard
plastic waterbottle, but my Iris and side-mount Specialized plastic cages
handle them just fine.

On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 8:38 PM Roberta  wrote:

> Thanks, Patrick! That looks like a really nice water bottle and it’s
> bigger than most. I couldn’t resist the red Dahlia color to match all the
> red hearts on my Betty Foy. I didn’t realize I had REI points so this cost
> me less than five dollars Roberta.
>
> On Friday, February 23, 2024 at 11:04:38 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> It's hard to find water bottles with lids that cover the entire drinking
>> area but this is one and it's a particularly nice on. And it's on sale.
>>
>> The only defect is that the locking mech is all plastic, but mine have
>> held up well for 5+ years. It does keep beverages hot for a few hours in
>> cold temps, at least in the ~30 to 40 degree range.
>>
>>
>> https://www.rei.com/product/232074/gsi-outdoors-microlite-720-flip-vacuum-water-bottle-24-fl-oz
>>
>> BTW, if anyone knows where to find regular uninsulated plastic
>> waterbottles with the full-cover flip-up lid, please let me know. They used
>> to be quite common but I've not been able to find any recently and I'm down
>> to my last one. I use these in warmer weather.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: REI "Microlite" insulated stainless steel water bottles with full cover over spout

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Benz; I have a couple of the Elite ones and yes, they're very thin
but they have that all-important full-cover lid. I wish I could find some
of the old ones, typical waterbottle style except for the hinged full-cover
lids.

On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 9:00 AM Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA <
benzouy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, February 23, 2024 at 8:04:38 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>
> BTW, if anyone knows where to find regular uninsulated plastic
> waterbottles with the full-cover flip-up lid, please let me know. They used
> to be quite common but I've not been able to find any recently and I'm down
> to my last one. I use these in warmer weather.
>
>
> Elite makes these in 950mL, 750mL and 550mL variants:
> https://www.lafobikes.com/products/elite-fly-mtb-black-water-bottle-options
>
> These bottles have super thin walls that feel a little like disposable
> water bottles and not at all like normal water bottles one can get from
> bike shops. I have them but not long enough to assess overall durability.
>
> Elite also offers an insulated version, but I don't have any experience
> with that:
> https://www.lafobikes.com/products/elite-ice-fly-water-bottle-500ml-various-colors
>
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[RBW] White plastic water bottles with screw-on top

[Patrick Moore]

Segue from the bottle cage thread.

I fumble with the nomenclature, but I used to have a few very well made
white plastic water bottles, probably not bike-specific, made from thick
and stiff white plastic and with a screw-*on* top that covered the
aperture, as opposed to screw-*in* tops that fit inside the apertures.

I have no idea what these are called or who made them or what they are made
from, but I recall that mine --given me by someone -- were "high end"
products; and the weight of the plastic and the accuracy of the threading
makes me believe that this is true. These were *not* squeezable, but nor
were they "brittle" plastic.

They looked something, but not exactly like this; they had longer necks and
the plastic "looked" better.

They also, at least in certain sizes, fit well into standard bottle cages.

Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

[image: image.png]

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Re: [RBW] Stainless bottle/ cage recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

;>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/SA1PR17MB54911DBFC552D6C666AC6B07CD5A2%40SA1PR17MB5491.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/SA1PR17MB54911DBFC552D6C666AC6B07CD5A2%40SA1PR17MB5491.namprd17.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c0f1c64a-174f-4e7d-ac3a-ab2aca5e25a5n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c0f1c64a-174f-4e7d-ac3a-ab2aca5e25a5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Stainless bottle/ cage recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

ab2aca5e25a5n%40googlegroups.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c0f1c64a-174f-4e7d-ac3a-ab2aca5e25a5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>> --
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9ba91b81-cd33-42ac-9d89-096dbd1e7128n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] New bike decision (help!)

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Jones said he'd email me that OW of the chainstays at the
end-of-cranks position but never did. But research indicates that current
models won't give me the required 160 mm or lower Q and, in fact, after
much measurement and calculation the arithmetical evidence convinced me
that my quadruple goals -- 700C with true 3" width, 160 mm max Q, stays of
non-absured length, and sufficient air between outside knobs and inside
chainstays -- would be possible only with very carefully massaged plate
yoke between bb and chainstays. In the event, for now, I decided that I
don't need the hassle of another custom, and I chose instead to get a
fatter (compared to current 50 mm Soma SV) sandy path wheelset for the
Matthews #1.

As to the Gus, I'm sure it won't take a 622X76 tire, but I still wonder (a)
how fat a tire will it take and, (b) what the *minimum *Q is.

On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 7:30 AM Garth  wrote:

>
> Patrick,
>
> The Jones frame is made with a Boost 148 rear spacing which calls for a
> 51-53mm chainline. What this does is move the cassette 3mm further away
> from center. This is done for better tire and FD clearance. When I was
> looking at Jones frames, I read all this and while on the surface it seems
> one would be limited to using boost specific cranks, the obvious question
> arises . what's the difference between a boost crank and it's 51-53mm
> chainline and running a triple crank with either just the outer ring as a
> 1x, as long as you're in the 51-53mm chainline range ? Or, use the triple
> as a 2x with the chainline measured between the rings, given the proper
> length spindle ?  As far as the function, given the same chainlines, there
> is no difference, a 52mm chainline is a 52mm chainline. I see the potential
> issue though would be in using a road crank, to get the chainline out that
> far enough and the arms clearing the stays. This would require an
> appropriate length spindle, and if you're saying say, straight arm cranks,
> you may need a long-er spindle, which of course increases the tread width
> of the crank.
>
> So the first thing to know is the width of the stays where the crank arms
> go.
>
> All that said, Shimano does make a 52mm chainline XTR crank with a 162mm
> tread width, but doesn't list an inside arm width.  Otherwise there are
> lots of boost compatible cranks that are 168mm wide.
> https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/xtr-m9100/FC-M9100-1.html
> .
>
> I'm not sure how wide the Jones crank or how much clearance there is.
> Someone with a LWB would have to measure theirs.
>
> Also the White Industries Road.VBC crank w/121mm bb = 158mm tread width,
> 51.5mm chainline as a 1X, 47.5mm as a 2X. This might be too narrow to clear
> the stays though, see the specs, plus the measurement of the given frame.
> https://www.whiteind.com/product/square-taper-road-cranks/
>
> https://www.whiteind.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Squaretapercrankdimensionsimage.jpg
>
> All in all that's the first hurdle to clear, the chainstay width for the
> cranks. Then go from there.
>
>
> As for a new frame for Gregger, I can't say what would work for you as my
> perspective is inherently biased from my own sensibilities.
> On Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 11:29:27 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> This is very interesting; I thought all Riv models except the various
>> road models were "country bikes" but to hear the Gus compared to a Jones
>> would seem to be high praise, from what I read about the Jones (it's one of
>> Bike Snob's keepers in his current bike purge).
>>
>> I just gave away my sole mountain bike -- the much modified Monocog 29er
>> -- in favor of a fatter-tire second wheelset for my Matthews "road bike for
>> dirt,"  but I'll have to consider a Gus if I ever decide to get another
>> mtb. Question: Can you get a =/< 160 mm Q with a Gus? What kept me from
>> getting a Jones was the >160 mm Q.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, also closing in very rapidly on 69, in ABQ, NM.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 1:57 PM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve not ridden a Platypus but I’ve yet to hear it described as a trail
>>> bike. Love, love, love my Clem on & off road but if things get dicey it’s a
>>> bit overwhelmed with the lower bottom bracket - compared to my Gus. The Gus
>>> or the new Susie (get one! Run do not walk!) are singletrack machines. Yes
>>> they are good for other duties as well but are conceived & built to be
>>> mountain bikes. I am blown away by it on rough, rooty & slightly rocky
>>> singletrack. It is every bit the mountain bike that a Jones is (I had one)
>>> which is of course highly regarded in that categor

Re: [RBW] Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks; so just long-term and successful experience.

Aside: If you were to share ride photos from Portugal, I doubt people would
complain.

On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 12:48 AM Steven Sweedler  wrote:

> Patrick, when I sold a Raleigh International frame more than a decade ago,
> I committed to cantis only. The centerpulls on the Int. were not confidence
> inspiring on some of my local steep descents. I used Tektro 720’s, Paul Neo
> Retros and Shimano BR MC 70s. I haveused the MC 70s on at least 10 bikes
> for myself and friends and am very satidfied. The large KS pads last a few
> years and I get quiet strong braking. For the past few weeks I have been
> riding  some very steep dirt tracks  here in SW Portugal and had no issues.
> I bought a decent supply before prices crept up and have little interest in
> trying something else. An all too common attitude I adopt. I did switch to
> the shorter KS pads so the front brake opens all the way without hitting
> the fork blades.
>
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:57 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Steven: I'm curious about your reasons. I'm not contradicting, just
>> asking because I'd like to know any secrets for setting up cantilevers
>> properly. In fact, among the best brakes all around that I ever used --
>> mixing power and modulation and "feel" -- were IRD long-arms set up with
>> salmons on my 2010 Sam Hill, but then the Riv staff installed and adjusted
>> those. Drop bar levers. Me, I've never been able to get more than
>> "acceptable" braking with cantis of any sort and drop bar levers.
>>
>> I had my 2020 Matthews built for cantilevers in order to clear 42 mm
>> tires with fenders, but I sometimes wonder if I would not have done better
>> to have had pivots added for centerpulls which, IME, are much easier to set
>> up and which (again, IME), stop more "powerfully."
>>
>> At first I used Tektro CR 720s; I got rid of the violent squeal and
>> shudder by radical pad toe-in, and after that they were "acceptable." I
>> replaced those with Pauls which allowed a more normal toe-in without squeal
>> or shudder and which were perhaps a wee bit stronger. Most recently I
>> swapped out the steel Shimano headset mount housing stop in the front for a
>> much more expensive RH one, and that did improve front braking "strength."
>> Now the brakes are "quite adequate" but not as good as good single pivots
>> or the backing-plate centerpulls I've used -- Mafacs, Weinmanns, Tourneys,
>> Dura Ace.* And among the worst brakes I ever had were the Mafac cantilevers
>> (even tried the longer-arm tandem model on the front) on an old Herse --
>> despite salmon pads and a lot of time fiddling with cable angles.
>>
>> So, please explain the reason for your preference, and let us know of any
>> secrets for setting up cantilvers for optimum performance. Perhaps you have
>> in mind cantilevers with "flat bar" levers?
>>
>> Again: Not arguing! Seeking knowledge!
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> * I was told -- Olof Stroh, were did you go? -- that Shimano made Dura
>> Ace centerpulls for about 6 months in 1976, and I owned a pair. Someone had
>> hand polished them to a Rene Herse-like gleam, but they didn't work any
>> better than the Tourneys; both worked "well" but not "exceptionally well."
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 1:08 PM Steven Sweedler 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My vote is for cantilevers
>>>
>>> Steven Sweedler
>>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:05 PM Kyle Cotchett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey all,
>>>>
>>>> Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a
>>>> local frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am
>>>> looking to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having
>>>> cantilever or centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who
>>>> have ridden both?
>>>>
>>>> Kyle
>>>>
>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Yet another tired question...

[Patrick Moore]

That's the Naches Pass. Excellent tire; I use the EL version with tubes and
Orange Seal.

On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 7:10 AM Jingy  wrote:

> I would suggest the Rene Herse 26 x1.8" tire ( I can't remember the
> name-not the Rat Trap Pass, the other one).
> So far that's been my favorite tire on my 26" wheeled All Rounder.
>
> Jim in Mpls
>
> On Sunday, February 25, 2024 at 8:59:35 PM UTC-6 ber...@bernardduhon.com
> wrote:
>
>> One more thing. Your continentals are the most uncomfortable tire I ever
>> rode.  I know cause I got 5000 mile before 1st flat.
>>
>> Paselas & Elk Pass are good for Erie canal.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On
>> Behalf Of *Stephen Durfee
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 25, 2024 5:50 PM
>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>> *Subject:* [RBW] Yet another tired question...
>>
>>
>>
>> My son and I are planning an adventure along the Erie Canal route for
>> this summer, with a few detours along the way to visit friends and explore
>> the Finger Lakes. I’m planning to ride my All Rounder (26” wheels) and
>> carry clothes and some gear for camping, but trying to keep the packing
>> light. It will be mostly a paved road trip, but we might get the chance to
>> get onto some gravel. With that as the back story, I’m curious about tire
>> recommendations. The bike came to me with Continental Contacts and  I’ve
>> experimented with Paselas and RH Elk Pass. I'm ready to try something new
>> and would welcome the suggestions,
>>
>> --
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f8919775-b338-4e1e-8cb3-09a70bb5d77en%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f8919775-b338-4e1e-8cb3-09a70bb5d77en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
> --
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> .
>


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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
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*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

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Re: [RBW] Yet another tired question...

[Patrick Moore]

The Elk Passes are the most wonderful road tires I've used, but at least on
my rims (13 mm IW) a bit narrow (27-28 mm) for anything except the firmest
and smoothest dirt surfaces. What about the Rene Herse Naches Pass, 559 X
42? They come in an extralight model at ~300 grams IIRC; I've been using
these, with tubes + Orange Seal, for several years and, while they don't
"seem" to roll as effortlessly as the 175 gram Elk Passes they roll very
well indeed and expand the scope of dirt surfaces that the bike can handle
-- I ride mine in shallow sand to take convenient dirt detours between
pavement sections, in order to avoid heavy pavement auto traffic.

On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 7:59 PM Bernard Duhon 
wrote:

> One more thing. Your continentals are the most uncomfortable tire I ever
> rode.  I know cause I got 5000 mile before 1st flat.
>
> Paselas & Elk Pass are good for Erie canal.
>
>
>
> *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *Stephen Durfee
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 25, 2024 5:50 PM
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
> *Subject:* [RBW] Yet another tired question...
>
>
>
> My son and I are planning an adventure along the Erie Canal route for this
> summer, with a few detours along the way to visit friends and explore the
> Finger Lakes. I’m planning to ride my All Rounder (26” wheels) and carry
> clothes and some gear for camping, but trying to keep the packing light. It
> will be mostly a paved road trip, but we might get the chance to get onto
> some gravel. With that as the back story, I’m curious about tire
> recommendations. The bike came to me with Continental Contacts and  I’ve
> experimented with Paselas and RH Elk Pass. I'm ready to try something new
> and would welcome the suggestions,
>
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Re: [RBW] Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Patrick Moore]

Steven: I'm curious about your reasons. I'm not contradicting, just asking
because I'd like to know any secrets for setting up cantilevers properly.
In fact, among the best brakes all around that I ever used -- mixing power
and modulation and "feel" -- were IRD long-arms set up with salmons on my
2010 Sam Hill, but then the Riv staff installed and adjusted those. Drop
bar levers. Me, I've never been able to get more than "acceptable" braking
with cantis of any sort and drop bar levers.

I had my 2020 Matthews built for cantilevers in order to clear 42 mm tires
with fenders, but I sometimes wonder if I would not have done better to
have had pivots added for centerpulls which, IME, are much easier to set up
and which (again, IME), stop more "powerfully."

At first I used Tektro CR 720s; I got rid of the violent squeal and shudder
by radical pad toe-in, and after that they were "acceptable." I replaced
those with Pauls which allowed a more normal toe-in without squeal or
shudder and which were perhaps a wee bit stronger. Most recently I swapped
out the steel Shimano headset mount housing stop in the front for a much
more expensive RH one, and that did improve front braking "strength." Now
the brakes are "quite adequate" but not as good as good single pivots or
the backing-plate centerpulls I've used -- Mafacs, Weinmanns, Tourneys,
Dura Ace.* And among the worst brakes I ever had were the Mafac cantilevers
(even tried the longer-arm tandem model on the front) on an old Herse --
despite salmon pads and a lot of time fiddling with cable angles.

So, please explain the reason for your preference, and let us know of any
secrets for setting up cantilvers for optimum performance. Perhaps you have
in mind cantilevers with "flat bar" levers?

Again: Not arguing! Seeking knowledge!

Thanks.

* I was told -- Olof Stroh, were did you go? -- that Shimano made Dura Ace
centerpulls for about 6 months in 1976, and I owned a pair. Someone had
hand polished them to a Rene Herse-like gleam, but they didn't work any
better than the Tourneys; both worked "well" but not "exceptionally well."

On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 1:08 PM Steven Sweedler  wrote:

> My vote is for cantilevers
>
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:05 PM Kyle Cotchett 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a local
>> frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am looking
>> to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having cantilever or
>> centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who have ridden
>> both?
>>
>> Kyle
>>
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Re: [RBW] New bike decision (help!)

[Patrick Moore]

This is very interesting; I thought all Riv models except the various road
models were "country bikes" but to hear the Gus compared to a Jones would
seem to be high praise, from what I read about the Jones (it's one of Bike
Snob's keepers in his current bike purge).

I just gave away my sole mountain bike -- the much modified Monocog 29er --
in favor of a fatter-tire second wheelset for my Matthews "road bike for
dirt,"  but I'll have to consider a Gus if I ever decide to get another
mtb. Question: Can you get a =/< 160 mm Q with a Gus? What kept me from
getting a Jones was the >160 mm Q.

Patrick Moore, also closing in very rapidly on 69, in ABQ, NM.


On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 1:57 PM Richard Rose  wrote:

> I’ve not ridden a Platypus but I’ve yet to hear it described as a trail
> bike. Love, love, love my Clem on & off road but if things get dicey it’s a
> bit overwhelmed with the lower bottom bracket - compared to my Gus. The Gus
> or the new Susie (get one! Run do not walk!) are singletrack machines. Yes
> they are good for other duties as well but are conceived & built to be
> mountain bikes. I am blown away by it on rough, rooty & slightly rocky
> singletrack. It is every bit the mountain bike that a Jones is (I had one)
> which is of course highly regarded in that category. I’ve yet to experience
> a pedal strike on the Gus. I’ve had quite a few on the Clem. And I am
> pretty decent at avoiding them if I do say so. So, IMHO if what you are
> looking for is a singletrack bike get the new Susie or try to find a
> leftover one/Gus.
> FWIW, I am closing on 69 years old & have ditched my full suspension bike
> in favor of the Gus. As you allude to, I am a bit less aggressive on the
> Gus vs. the Ibis. I think that’s is smarter at my age. No less fun though.:)
> Sent from my iPhone
>

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Re: [RBW] Going really large on Clems

[Patrick Moore]

Isn't Grant's intention with these very long reaches to the bar, to allow
bars with long sweepback on a stem of reasonable length and with a lot of
rise?

In my own case, with short arms and long torso and a drop bar level with or
below saddle, I need a very undersquare frame (60 X 56 c-c is perfect) for
a level top tube; of courses, if I were to use a non-drop bar with a lot of
sweepback, things could be different.

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 11:23 AM Josh C  wrote:

> I could fit on anything between 59-64cm with the low top tube but I'd pick
> the 59 just to keep the overall length down. These bikes are already crazy
> long, I don't want to make it longer unnecessarily, a 64 clem is like
> riding an 80s Lincoln Towncar. I don't understand the draw of sizing up.

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Re: [RBW] WTB 650B Dynamo Wheel & Question About Alex Rims

[Patrick Moore]

Congrats on the new Clem. That's the model that I've most thought about
recently. Perhaps one day ...

I've ridden Alex rims on 2 Redline Monocog 29ers and based on those I'd say
that Redline makes good, workmanlike modestly priced rims that are really
all that most of us need. 584 (millimeters) is the "bead seat diameter,"
the diameter of the rim where the tire bead sits, thus a measure of the
inner tire bead diameter, and thus further a quick-reference for tire
height (which of course varies almost infinetly according to tire width);
the 650B designation is an ancient French and nowadays confusing name for
precisely that bead seat diameter, so that 650B = 584 mm bsd. 650B/584 bsd
tires and rims are sortof kindof halfway between "road wheels/tires" or
700c/622 bsd and "twenty six inch wheels", of which there are too many
varieties to enumerate here but which commonly refers to the most common
mountain bike wheel 20 and 30 years ago with a 559 mm bsd.

DM 18? I don't know but I'd guess that 18 mm is the inner width of the rim.
Others can correct as necessary.



On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 9:51 AM Dennis Wong  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Purchased my first Riv, a mustard colored Clem Jr H!
>
> I think the bike has the original 650B wheels marked Alex Rims.  The are
> about 31mm wide.  I'd was thinking of having someone build a new, matching
> front wheel with a dynamo.  I looked at the Velocity and Alex Rim sites.
> Other than the Rivendell Site
>  (650B/27.5/584 x
> DM18 x Shimano hubs) I don't see much on the web about these rims.  (What
> does the 584 and DM18 mean?)
>
> Thank you.
>

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Re: [RBW] Going really large on Clems

[Patrick Moore]

I've no advice on Riv sizing except that I personally prefer to downsize
wrt their recommendations, but I do want to remind you that list rules
require you to post photos of your bikes if they are at all interesting,
and yours sound interesting indeed.

[For the terminally earnest: No, there is no such list rule, but posting
photos of interesting bikes is what old fashioned Catholic moral doctrine
called a temporal work of mercy, like caring for the sick and visiting the
imprisoned. That's a joke too.]

So, please do!

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 9:49 AM Paul Donald  wrote:

> Hi, I'm new here, all my Rivendell ownership is currently confined to
> their components all over my Riv-esque bikes, Soma Saga, New Albion
> Privateer, Schwinn High Sierra (that one is destined to be replaced with a
> proper Riv) Omnium Cargo. It would be nice to have the main course and not
> just be fiddling with the condiments.
>
> I've been reading what folks have written about Riv sizing, both here and
> on Rivs website, and was particularly interested in Grant's experiment with
> a 64 Clem for his 85mm PBH. I have a PBH of 85.5 so in theory I could do
> similar. Oddly, according to their spec sheets, a 64 has 1mm less reach
> than a 59.
>
> Anyone cheerfully riding against the grain size-wise?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Gus /Susie bottom bracket -which one?

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, and yes, very genial transaction between Peter and his order assistant
whose name I forget.

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 9:48 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> It's good to know that these SL bbs are recommended by a knowledgeable
> professional -- well, since Peter carries them, that is probably
> recommendation in itself. I ordered one myself yesterday, a 127 mm to try
> to skim off a few mm of the Q on my Matthews "road bike for dirt" -- with
> the current 130 mm Phil there are about 3 mm of unused airspace between the
> inside of the left arm and the outside of the stay. Must also try that NOS
> 125 mm SunTour Greaseguard bb, but I fear that even with right arm skimming
> the stay on its side -- as it is with proper chainline -- the left arm will
> still rub.
>
> May soon have a NOS/NIB ST GG bb bearing assembly for sale 
>
> Alas, the 127s are available only with plastic cups, but iboblist
> scuttlebutt says that they hold up fine, and Peter said he could not recall
> ever having problems with them. Still, I'd have preferred metal for
> aesthetic, philosophical, and moral reasons.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 7:48 AM Richard Rose  wrote:
>
>> Good Morning! Attached here is a pic from Peter White website. BTW, I
>> called, Peter answered & after a nice conversation I ordered over the
>> phone. It arrived in two days. Nice transaction for sure. Also, these
>> bottom brackets came highly recommended by Analog Cycles - good enough for
>> me.:)
>> The Shimano bb that I replaced was a 118, this Stronglight is 119. I
>> ordered the more expensive one with the aluminum vs. plastic cups. Still
>> just $50.00! And you are correct, I did not change anything else.
>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Gus /Susie bottom bracket -which one?

[Patrick Moore]

It's good to know that these SL bbs are recommended by a knowledgeable
professional -- well, since Peter carries them, that is probably
recommendation in itself. I ordered one myself yesterday, a 127 mm to try
to skim off a few mm of the Q on my Matthews "road bike for dirt" -- with
the current 130 mm Phil there are about 3 mm of unused airspace between the
inside of the left arm and the outside of the stay. Must also try that NOS
125 mm SunTour Greaseguard bb, but I fear that even with right arm skimming
the stay on its side -- as it is with proper chainline -- the left arm will
still rub.

May soon have a NOS/NIB ST GG bb bearing assembly for sale 

Alas, the 127s are available only with plastic cups, but iboblist
scuttlebutt says that they hold up fine, and Peter said he could not recall
ever having problems with them. Still, I'd have preferred metal for
aesthetic, philosophical, and moral reasons.



On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 7:48 AM Richard Rose  wrote:

> Good Morning! Attached here is a pic from Peter White website. BTW, I
> called, Peter answered & after a nice conversation I ordered over the
> phone. It arrived in two days. Nice transaction for sure. Also, these
> bottom brackets came highly recommended by Analog Cycles - good enough for
> me.:)
> The Shimano bb that I replaced was a 118, this Stronglight is 119. I
> ordered the more expensive one with the aluminum vs. plastic cups. Still
> just $50.00! And you are correct, I did not change anything else.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Also ISO/WTT/WTB Shimano type 10 sp cassette with 14 small cog and 25, 26, 27, 28 big cog

[Patrick Moore]

I just ordered 3 of the Tiagras at $32.99; Peter has 3 left so here's you
chance! Note: he also has 9 (and10?) sp Ultegra and 10 sp (??) DA 14-25s
but for a lot more money.

Apparently the advantage of the Tiagras is that Shimano doesn't bother with
a spider so yes, you can drill them out and replace the spacers with 10
speed ones.

I'll order the spacers and a Miche 28 from the LBS who are building the
wheel; also have XT hub from Universal and a SP from a private source
on-way.

Thanks all.


On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 8:55 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I see that PJ White has Ultegra14-25 10 speed cassettes but they're $120.
> For that price I'll try getting Miche cogs to order plus spacers. He also
> sells a 9 speed Tiagra for $32 [14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25].
>
> That might work with the addition of a 28. Am I right in assuming that
> with such close-ratio cassettes all the cogs are hub-mounted instead of
> spider-mounted?
>
> Can anyone say how well Tiagra cogs wear compared to higher-end ones?
>
> PJW sells the same 9 sp cassette [14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25] in the
> Ultegra flavor, but it's $100: what do you get for the additional $68? More
> mileage?
>
> Thanks.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Also ISO/WTT/WTB Shimano type 10 sp cassette with 14 small cog and 25, 26, 27, 28 big cog

[Patrick Moore]

Here's one for $11.48:

100% Hits Volume 14 in Volume.25 Case CASSETTE TAPE
Opens in a new window or tab
<https://www.ebay.ca/itm/321899857229?itmmeta=01HQBBTKBA6CY0Z3M5ENGNMTA8=item4af2ba054d:g:gbYAAOSwWnFV-UB4=enc%3AAQAI0Pyp8wDS9OC%2FNxXEzw3fIjkqWqdu59U3OTrk1tHJaSGUHgwSj6UIj7ytrJ9OMHzrFyz1%2BTImYlc1kg9kq7sBsdb5yAl%2FJy5LiKm%2F3HGCRDY5LL3iKCVtlLy2Tc2NFgna7qbiYFqwZHutFb%2FCidE49QSzZuje1zr%2Fno2PpbEL1NiIx9crL5m3%2Beibn8PLom2NGG%2BuLQjxk5nJD3ZhO91QppBJrbWByGgSz6r7z0aM2D%2FJOWrT3Xkbj%2BMppB2c9%2FKOyYjgj07k5cOdfbi5UPON31M%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-q16uu6Yw>
Pre-Owned
C $11.48
Top Rated SellerTop Rated Seller
Buy It Now
handheldfun2009 (18,055) 99.7%
+C $26.51 shipping
from Australia

On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 9:15 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Ebay. Why yes, I've shopped there before. Will look; thanks.
>
> [A few minutes later.] Scolled through several dozen but all either priced
> higher than PJW's Tiagras or "pre-owned."
>
> Do you (all) know what makes the Ultegra better than the Tiagra?
>
> Patrick Moore, who hates scrolling through too many choices.
>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 9:06 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> I run an Ultegra 14-25 on Bambi and have one spare also Ultegra, in the
>> box.  I bought a spare because I perceived them as having gone out of
>> production.  Because of your post I went to eBay to find a nice used one.
>> I found one listed for $29 or best offer.  I offered $25 and it was
>> accepted.  So now I'll have a new 14-25, a new spare as well as a used
>> spare.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, February 23, 2024 at 7:55:48 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I see that PJ White has Ultegra14-25 10 speed cassettes but they're
>>> $120. For that price I'll try getting Miche cogs to order plus spacers. He
>>> also sells a 9 speed Tiagra for $32 [14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25].
>>>
>>> That might work with the addition of a 28. Am I right in assuming that
>>> with such close-ratio cassettes all the cogs are hub-mounted instead of
>>> spider-mounted?
>>>
>>> Can anyone say how well Tiagra cogs wear compared to higher-end ones?
>>>
>>> PJW sells the same 9 sp cassette [14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25] in the
>>> Ultegra flavor, but it's $100: what do you get for the additional $68? More
>>> mileage?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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Re: [RBW] Re: Also ISO/WTT/WTB Shimano type 10 sp cassette with 14 small cog and 25, 26, 27, 28 big cog

[Patrick Moore]

Ebay. Why yes, I've shopped there before. Will look; thanks.

[A few minutes later.] Scolled through several dozen but all either priced
higher than PJW's Tiagras or "pre-owned."

Do you (all) know what makes the Ultegra better than the Tiagra?

Patrick Moore, who hates scrolling through too many choices.

On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 9:06 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I run an Ultegra 14-25 on Bambi and have one spare also Ultegra, in the
> box.  I bought a spare because I perceived them as having gone out of
> production.  Because of your post I went to eBay to find a nice used one.
> I found one listed for $29 or best offer.  I offered $25 and it was
> accepted.  So now I'll have a new 14-25, a new spare as well as a used
> spare.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 23, 2024 at 7:55:48 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I see that PJ White has Ultegra14-25 10 speed cassettes but they're $120.
>> For that price I'll try getting Miche cogs to order plus spacers. He also
>> sells a 9 speed Tiagra for $32 [14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25].
>>
>> That might work with the addition of a 28. Am I right in assuming that
>> with such close-ratio cassettes all the cogs are hub-mounted instead of
>> spider-mounted?
>>
>> Can anyone say how well Tiagra cogs wear compared to higher-end ones?
>>
>> PJW sells the same 9 sp cassette [14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25] in the
>> Ultegra flavor, but it's $100: what do you get for the additional $68? More
>> mileage?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
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>


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[RBW] Re: PSA: REI "Microlite" insulated stainless steel water bottles with full cover over spout

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot to add: It's a wee bit wider than your standard plastic waterbottle
but it does fit in King Iris cages and in Profile and Specialized
side-mount plastic cages. [I've got some even nicer ss insulated bottles
with better-made full-cover lids but alas those are too *narrow* and rattle
in Irises even with many wrappings of electrician's tape. But those do work
in the Profile and Specialized cages. Sorry, don't recall the brand but I
think I got them on Am*z*n.]

On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 9:04 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> It's hard to find water bottles with lids that cover the entire drinking
> area but this is one and it's a particularly nice on. And it's on sale.
>
> The only defect is that the locking mech is all plastic, but mine have
> held up well for 5+ years. It does keep beverages hot for a few hours in
> cold temps, at least in the ~30 to 40 degree range.
>
>
> https://www.rei.com/product/232074/gsi-outdoors-microlite-720-flip-vacuum-water-bottle-24-fl-oz
>
> BTW, if anyone knows where to find regular uninsulated plastic
> waterbottles with the full-cover flip-up lid, please let me know. They used
> to be quite common but I've not been able to find any recently and I'm down
> to my last one. I use these in warmer weather.
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

-- 
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[RBW] PSA: REI "Microlite" insulated stainless steel water bottles with full cover over spout

[Patrick Moore]

It's hard to find water bottles with lids that cover the entire drinking
area but this is one and it's a particularly nice on. And it's on sale.

The only defect is that the locking mech is all plastic, but mine have held
up well for 5+ years. It does keep beverages hot for a few hours in cold
temps, at least in the ~30 to 40 degree range.

https://www.rei.com/product/232074/gsi-outdoors-microlite-720-flip-vacuum-water-bottle-24-fl-oz

BTW, if anyone knows where to find regular uninsulated plastic waterbottles
with the full-cover flip-up lid, please let me know. They used to be quite
common but I've not been able to find any recently and I'm down to my last
one. I use these in warmer weather.

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Also ISO/WTT/WTB Shimano type 10 sp cassette with 14 small cog and 25, 26, 27, 28 big cog

[Patrick Moore]

I see that PJ White has Ultegra14-25 10 speed cassettes but they're $120.
For that price I'll try getting Miche cogs to order plus spacers. He also
sells a 9 speed Tiagra for $32 [14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25].

That might work with the addition of a 28. Am I right in assuming that with
such close-ratio cassettes all the cogs are hub-mounted instead of
spider-mounted?

Can anyone say how well Tiagra cogs wear compared to higher-end ones?

PJW sells the same 9 sp cassette [14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25] in the
Ultegra flavor, but it's $100: what do you get for the additional $68? More
mileage?

Thanks.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Also ISO/WTT/WTB Shimano type 10 sp cassette with 14 small cog and 25, 26, 27, 28 big cog

[Patrick Moore]

This is what I have in mind. I can't find a 14-25 or so ready-made cassette
online, but I've seen them listed somewhere before; can anyone point me to
"Junior racing" cassettes?

Thanks.

60 MM 29.5"
  44 28
14 93
15 87
16 81
17 76 49
18 72 46
19 68 43
21 62 39
23 56 36
25 52 33
28 46 30

On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 8:32 AM Russell Duncan  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> Like you, I’m also a fan of Miche cassettes because of the ability to
> customize their gear ratios with all 10 cogs being loose. They make a good
> product, and I also look for a high gear of no less than 14 teeth.
>
> Russell Duncan
> Leverett, MA
>
> On Friday, February 23, 2024 at 12:12:23 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Reginald, but I'm looking for a 10 sp cassette with a 14-tooth
>> small cog and close ratios and a big cog under 30 teeth. I'm pretty sure
>> Shimano makes these -- for junior racing? -- including a close ratio
>> 14-something [and even a close ratio 15-something] but I'd have to modify
>> it in any event so I'd need one with separate "big" cogs, ie not attached
>> to a spider.
>>
>> I'll probably just order from a Miche cog smorgasbord so that I can
>> choose those that I need.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 10:07 PM R. Alexis  wrote:
>>
>>> PM sent.
>>>
>>> I have two SRAM PG 1070 10 speed cassettes. One 12-25 and one 12-27.
>>>
>>> 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 27
>>>
>>> 12, 13, 14, 15, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25
>>>
>>> Last 3 cogs on each are attached to a spider.
>>>
>>> Let me know if you are interested. I may have some individual cogs I can
>>> dig through.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Reginald Alexis
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 2:06:11 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know that Shimano makes 14-20-something 10 speed cassettes; I want
>>>> something I can modify to, say (need not be exactly so)
>>>> 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-22-24-27 or ... 21-23-27 or ... 28. Will use no cog
>>>> larger than a 28.
>>>>
>>>> Please reply offlist.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Also ISO/WTT/WTB Shimano type 10 sp cassette with 14 small cog and 25, 26, 27, 28 big cog

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Reginald, but I'm looking for a 10 sp cassette with a 14-tooth
small cog and close ratios and a big cog under 30 teeth. I'm pretty sure
Shimano makes these -- for junior racing? -- including a close ratio
14-something [and even a close ratio 15-something] but I'd have to modify
it in any event so I'd need one with separate "big" cogs, ie not attached
to a spider.

I'll probably just order from a Miche cog smorgasbord so that I can choose
those that I need.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 10:07 PM R. Alexis  wrote:

> PM sent.
>
> I have two SRAM PG 1070 10 speed cassettes. One 12-25 and one 12-27.
>
> 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 27
>
> 12, 13, 14, 15, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25
>
> Last 3 cogs on each are attached to a spider.
>
> Let me know if you are interested. I may have some individual cogs I can
> dig through.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Reginald Alexis
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 2:06:11 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I know that Shimano makes 14-20-something 10 speed cassettes; I want
>> something I can modify to, say (need not be exactly so)
>> 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-22-24-27 or ... 21-23-27 or ... 28. Will use no cog
>> larger than a 28.
>>
>> Please reply offlist.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
> --
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> .
>


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---

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[RBW] Re: ISO 11 speed XT hub, 32 hole, QR, 6-bolt, black

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all, I found what I need at a price I'm willing to pay.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 10:56 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> 11 speed, XT, black, 32 hole, 6-bolt disc, QR.
>
> New or VG used. Trade or $$.
>
> LBS seems to be out until April.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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---

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Re: [RBW] Re: Handling (pavement cornering) of Schwalbe G One Speed 622X60 vs RH Antelope Hill (el) vs Schwalbe Big One (el)

[Patrick Moore]

The Big Ones have been out of production for a while; the 700C X 60
extralight G One is the replacement (it's not as light as the Big One).

I know the Big Ones but not the G Ones or the Antelope Hill; would be
interesting to hear others' reports of these last 2.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 5:54 PM Will Boericke  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> As far as I can tell, you are the world expert on the Big One.  I've never
> heard of anyone else riding them, and before you talked about them, I
> didn't know they existed.  I'd be interested to see who else is in the Big
> One support group.
>
> Wil near Boston, with only Small Ones
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 3:43:17 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Asking here as well as on boblist.
>>
>> I may resolve the fender/knobs/sand float dilemma by eliminating the knob
>> variable and get max sand float under fenders at the expense of cornering
>> security with 60 mm slicks.
>>
>> The Big Ones are notorious for "wallow" in turns; this seems to be an
>> inseparable quality rather than the result of improper pressure. They're
>> delightful tires otherwise (and the "wallow" is not horrible, just
>> noticeable).
>>
>> Query to those who have ridden 1 or some or all: How do the AH and the GO
>> corner on pavement in comparison to the BO?
>>
>> I'm almost tempted by the Big Apple but it's twice the weight of some of
>> these others. (OTOH I wouldn't need sealant!)
>>
>> In other news, ordered up a pair of 62 2X "Silver" Velocity Blunt SS's
>> for the second, sand-tire wheelset for the Matthews "road bike for dirt."
>> $176 each! But they're wonderful rims: very, very light and apparently very
>> strong, and at 27 mm IW perfect for 60s as well as the 50 mm Somas on the
>> existing wheelset.
>>
>> Query: ISO/WTT/WTB: 11 sp XT rear 6-bolt hub, 32 hole, black, QR axle;
>> 14-25 or close to this 10 sp Shimano-type cassette.
>>
>> Also might want a *used* black SP PD 8 6-bolt, QR axle hub, but would
>> have to be both in good condition and significantly discounted over new,
>> otherwise would want warranty protection.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
> --
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>


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---

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---

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Re: [RBW] Re: Handling (pavement cornering) of Schwalbe G One Speed 622X60 vs RH Antelope Hill (el) vs Schwalbe Big One (el)

[Patrick Moore]

Good to know about the stability of the GOs. The "Race-something" model has
a good rating for speed/rolling resistance; might consider the 622X60s
instead of the Antelope Pass.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 7:35 PM Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
kaiviers...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I bought four Big Ones at $19 a piece, Patrick bought the rest. They’re
> very thin. The new tubeless ready G ones are way more stable at lower
> pressures, and still relatively inexpensive . No bigger than 55 for me
> lately.
> -Kai
>
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 7:54:01 PM UTC-5 Will Boericke wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> As far as I can tell, you are the world expert on the Big One.  I've
>> never heard of anyone else riding them, and before you talked about them, I
>> didn't know they existed.  I'd be interested to see who else is in the Big
>> One support group.
>>
>> Wil near Boston, with only Small Ones
>>
>> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 3:43:17 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Asking here as well as on boblist.
>>>
>>> I may resolve the fender/knobs/sand float dilemma by eliminating the
>>> knob variable and get max sand float under fenders at the expense of
>>> cornering security with 60 mm slicks.
>>>
>>> The Big Ones are notorious for "wallow" in turns; this seems to be an
>>> inseparable quality rather than the result of improper pressure. They're
>>> delightful tires otherwise (and the "wallow" is not horrible, just
>>> noticeable).
>>>
>>> Query to those who have ridden 1 or some or all: How do the AH and the
>>> GO corner on pavement in comparison to the BO?
>>>
>>> I'm almost tempted by the Big Apple but it's twice the weight of some of
>>> these others. (OTOH I wouldn't need sealant!)
>>>
>>> In other news, ordered up a pair of 62 2X "Silver" Velocity Blunt SS's
>>> for the second, sand-tire wheelset for the Matthews "road bike for dirt."
>>> $176 each! But they're wonderful rims: very, very light and apparently very
>>> strong, and at 27 mm IW perfect for 60s as well as the 50 mm Somas on the
>>> existing wheelset.
>>>
>>> Query: ISO/WTT/WTB: 11 sp XT rear 6-bolt hub, 32 hole, black, QR axle;
>>> 14-25 or close to this 10 sp Shimano-type cassette.
>>>
>>> Also might want a *used* black SP PD 8 6-bolt, QR axle hub, but would
>>> have to be both in good condition and significantly discounted over new,
>>> otherwise would want warranty protection.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>>> services
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>>
>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>>
>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>>
>> --
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>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Handling (pavement cornering) of Schwalbe G One Speed 622X60 vs RH Antelope Hill (el) vs Schwalbe Big One (el)

[Patrick Moore]

Asking here as well as on boblist.

I may resolve the fender/knobs/sand float dilemma by eliminating the knob
variable and get max sand float under fenders at the expense of cornering
security with 60 mm slicks.

The Big Ones are notorious for "wallow" in turns; this seems to be an
inseparable quality rather than the result of improper pressure. They're
delightful tires otherwise (and the "wallow" is not horrible, just
noticeable).

Query to those who have ridden 1 or some or all: How do the AH and the GO
corner on pavement in comparison to the BO?

I'm almost tempted by the Big Apple but it's twice the weight of some of
these others. (OTOH I wouldn't need sealant!)

In other news, ordered up a pair of 62 2X "Silver" Velocity Blunt SS's for
the second, sand-tire wheelset for the Matthews "road bike for dirt." $176
each! But they're wonderful rims: very, very light and apparently very
strong, and at 27 mm IW perfect for 60s as well as the 50 mm Somas on the
existing wheelset.

Query: ISO/WTT/WTB: 11 sp XT rear 6-bolt hub, 32 hole, black, QR axle;
14-25 or close to this 10 sp Shimano-type cassette.

Also might want a *used* black SP PD 8 6-bolt, QR axle hub, but would have
to be both in good condition and significantly discounted over new,
otherwise would want warranty protection.

Thanks.

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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[RBW] Also ISO/WTT/WTB Shimano type 10 sp cassette with 14 small cog and 25, 26, 27, 28 big cog

[Patrick Moore]

I know that Shimano makes 14-20-something 10 speed cassettes; I want
something I can modify to, say (need not be exactly so)
14-15-16-17-18-19-20-22-24-27 or ... 21-23-27 or ... 28. Will use no cog
larger than a 28.

Please reply offlist.

Thanks.

-- 

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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---

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[RBW] REAR!! [ISO 11 speed XT hub, 32 hole, QR, 6-bolt, black] REAR!

[Patrick Moore]

Duh! REAR hub!

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 10:56 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> 11 speed, XT, black, 32 hole, 6-bolt disc, QR.
>
> New or VG used. Trade or $$.
>
> LBS seems to be out until April.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] ISO 11 speed XT hub, 32 hole, QR, 6-bolt, black

[Patrick Moore]

11 speed, XT, black, 32 hole, 6-bolt disc, QR.

New or VG used. Trade or $$.

LBS seems to be out until April.

Thanks.

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: 1983 Trek 720 FS, not by me, $299, NYC

[Patrick Moore]

I hope you get some bites.

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 5:13 AM alan lavine  wrote:

> Thanks, Patrick. I wasn't sure it would "qualify".
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 12:11:40 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Posted on iBob; seller said it's alright to post here; I figure that my
>> long-time presence on the list and the nature of the bike (long stays, I
>> think!) make it acceptable and I think listers will be interested.
>>
>> *Not mine:* please contact the owner directly: alan lavine <
>> ciga...@gmail.com>
>>
>> On 2/14/24 03:53, alan lavine wrote:
>> $299 anybody??
>> Alan NYC
>>
>> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 7:47:17 AM UTC-5 alan lavine wrote:
>> Reduced to $325.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 5:38:26 PM UTC-5 alan lavine wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> Up for sale is this classic touring frame, thought to be one of the best
>> ever. The frame itself is fine, but the paint sucks from previous touch up
>> attempts. It rides fine as is, though aesthetically poor.
>> The headset is stronglight but may need repacking. ST 60 cm, TT 57 cm,
>> both c-c.
>> I’m sure the members of this group know what this is but here is the CL
>> anyway:
>> newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/d/new-york-fs-vintage-touring-trek-720/7715824985.html
>>
>> Prefer local for now, but we’ll see how it goes.
>> Thanks,
>> Alan NYC
>>
> --
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> .
>


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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] 1983 Trek 720 FS, not by me, $299, NYC

[Patrick Moore]

Posted on iBob; seller said it's alright to post here; I figure that my
long-time presence on the list and the nature of the bike (long stays, I
think!) make it acceptable and I think listers will be interested.

*Not mine:* please contact the owner directly: alan lavine <
cigar...@gmail.com>

On 2/14/24 03:53, alan lavine wrote:
$299 anybody??
Alan NYC

On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 7:47:17 AM UTC-5 alan lavine wrote:
Reduced to $325.

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 5:38:26 PM UTC-5 alan lavine wrote:
Hi All,
Up for sale is this classic touring frame, thought to be one of the best
ever. The frame itself is fine, but the paint sucks from previous touch up
attempts. It rides fine as is, though aesthetically poor.
The headset is stronglight but may need repacking. ST 60 cm, TT 57 cm, both
c-c.
I’m sure the members of this group know what this is but here is the CL
anyway:
newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/d/new-york-fs-vintage-touring-trek-720/7715824985.html

Prefer local for now, but we’ll see how it goes.
Thanks,
Alan NYC

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Re: [RBW] Re: Why baskets and front bags instead of rear panniers or perfect Rivendell saddlebags?

[Patrick Moore]

I've told this anecdote many times before, but don't let that stop me. I
once carried 50 lb on a Tubus Fly attached to a lightweight -- noticeably
lighter than my Riv Roads -- 531 1973 Motobecane Grand Record (brake bridge
mounting and the frame had fender eyelets IIRC). It handled such loads
better than my Sam, my Ram, my 2003 Curt, my 2020 Matthews Curt clone, etc
etc etc. Sure, there was initial tail wag upon a transition to standing --
I grunted it up a 4/10 mile long very steep hill at 4 mph on my computer --
20 rpm in the 67" gear IIRC -- but it went away in a second after the
transition. Usual rear loads were in the 25 to 40 lb range.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 1:28 PM Chester  wrote:

> ... I'd sometimes go grocery shopping and load everything into one or two
> of the Ortliebs. Probably mostly just 15-25 pounds. Wasn't going far, so
> affect on handling didn't really matter, even though this was on a bike
> with race geo. Didn't have mounting eyelets on front fork so I was limited
> to a rear rack.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: trying to find an obscure former riv product

[Patrick Moore]

Well, "to err is human." My sole aim, goal, purpose, and motivation in life
is to have the bottoms of the hooks perfectly parallel to the ground. I
may* have failed and, for that, I am profoundly embarrassed.

*The bar angle may be distorted by my always semi-incompetent photography.
Or perhaps not, and perhaps just a wee bit of downward angle is what I
really like. Who knows what one really likes?

At any rate, that bar is supremely comfortable, and I've been thinking that
hooks on the very same bar on the geometrically cloned 2020 Matthews needs
to be rotated down a wee bit.

Patrick Moore, surprised and at once somewhat flattered and alarmed that
Bill notices these things, in ABQ, mud 'n' snow NM.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 3:25 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I approve of this photo...because the hooks are correctly parallel to the
> top tube, rather than the misguided standard of having them parallel to the
> ground.  The hooks are to be parallel to the ground ONLY incidentally, when
> the top tube is level.  Aesthetic truth and correctness demands this.
> APPROVE.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 11:15:13 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I've made left-hand hoods/grips for single-caliper, right-hand-only-lever
>> fixed gears simply be removing the lever proper from the brake lever body.
>> I've even filed/Dremeled down the lever, proper attachment projection but
>> often I've just removed the lever, proper, and left the attachment point.
>> Since used caliper brake levers are easy to find and cheap to buy, this
>> might be a solution.
>>
>> You can see the leftside leverless lever in this bad photo from 2015 with
>> matching Banzer bag and Keos.
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 8:42 AM Bill Schairer  wrote:
>>
>>> I have these if you are interested.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_1907.JPG]
>>>
>>> Bill S
>>> San Diego
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 10:04:48 AM UTC-8 Davey Two Shoes wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes those on somas site! THanks!!!
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 11:58:08 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://aroundthecycle.com/products/new-cane-creek-ergo-tandem-stoker-dummy-lever-black-sold-as-a-pair
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 11:55:20 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Like in these illustrations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://web.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 11:54:06 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I remember correctly those aren't correct. Are you talking about
>>>>>>> the road brake levers but without the levers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 11:32:17 AM UTC-5 mrg...@gmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/dia-compe-dc138-hand-rest-2746#attr=4939
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 10:20:13 AM UTC-6 Davey Two Shoes
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Does anyone remember those "false" hoods Riv used to sell? I think
>>>>>>>>> it was Riv at least. Anyway I'm looking for a similar solution but 
>>>>>>>>> cant
>>>>>>>>> find anything. Solutions??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> THanks!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>&g

Re: [RBW] FS Items Brakes, Seatposts, Saddles, Derailleurs

[Patrick Moore]

Short *housing* lengths ...

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 2:46 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ...  IME, good quality single pivots with decent levers,* short cable
> lengths*, and salmon pads stop very well indeed.]
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 12:31 AM Mike Godwin 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks
>>
>> Some bits from parting out the Monstercross, other items that just seem
>> to pile up. Some of the parts you may recognize, boomerang!  PDF
>> compilation of parts photos.  Ask for the source photos if needed.  Combine
>> parts to economize on shipping. If you feel the asking price is too high,
>> please make an offer.  Price includes shipping.
>>
>>  Campy GS crank, 170 length, 144 BCD, w/ 45 t ring. Threads in good
>> condition. $40
>>
>> Pacenti Forza Classico rims, silver, asymmetric/symmetric pair, 32 hole,
>> NIB $220
>>
>> Brooks Swallow, black, steel rails, like new condition.  $120
>>
>> B17s, brown with copper rivets. $65 each, or $100 for both.
>>
>> Suntour Superbe Pro 170 crank, 130 BCD, 53-39 rings. $40
>>
>> Cannondale faux carbon al seatpost. 27.2, uncut.  $20
>>
>> Promax ISO seatpost. 26.4, uncut.  $20
>>
>> SR Custom seatpost, 27.2 uncut.  $15
>>
>> Nitto Crystal Fellow seatpost. 27.2, uncut. $40
>>
>> Suntour XC Pro FD, 28.6. Chrome good condition. $25
>>
>> Shimano 105 long cage RD, RD-5501. $25
>>
>> Also have a short cage Tiagra. $15
>>
>> Paul Components skewers, black with orange, one bike’s worth 100/135. $90
>>
>>
>> Dia Compe Royal Gran Compe brakes 47-57 mm reach, no pads. Recessed, all
>> hardware.  $40
>>
>> Paul Components brakes, 1 bike’s worth. Touring Canti and Neo Retro,
>> silver, dual compound Koolstop pads. straddle cables, red hangers.  $165
>>
>> Dia Compe 750 Centerpull brakes, NIB, 62-78 mm reach, no pads. Nutted,
>> all hardware.  $45
>>
>> Avid Shorty cantis 1 bike’s worth. Koolstop/Tektro pads. Missing one
>> barrel for QR end, no straddle cables. $20
>>
>> Shimano 1 speed FW 3/32 pitch 18 t, SF-MX30  $15
>>
>> Campagnolo Silca Pump metal head  $25
>>
>> Sanyo chainstay generator. NIB, includes wires, brackets, front/rear
>> lights, manual  $25
>>
>> Ephemera, instruction/sales page for Christrophe toe clips. Raleigh tire
>> pressure gauge, bag of zinc coated steel cables, good for making flexible
>> straddle cables.
>>
>> Mike SLO CA
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/03b66202-a649-4ced-ba15-9d6a66422702n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

-- 
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Re: [RBW] FS Items Brakes, Seatposts, Saddles, Derailleurs

[Patrick Moore]

Mike: I'll take the Shimano 15 t fw if still available. To confirm: 3/32"
and not 1/8"?

Paypal to this address?

[Among the other things, some good prices for things I fortunately don't
need. I'd love a Superb Pro crankset, only I've got too many TA 50.4s and
an extra DA GS 200 or 300; still tempted but not now. Ditto for SP fd.
Excellent price for a pair of Paul cantis, too. The prices for the Campy
head and the excellent RG Compe calipers also very good -- IME, good
quality single pivots with decent levers, short cable lengths, and salmon
pads stop very well indeed.]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 12:31 AM Mike Godwin  wrote:

> Hi Folks
>
> Some bits from parting out the Monstercross, other items that just seem to
> pile up. Some of the parts you may recognize, boomerang!  PDF compilation
> of parts photos.  Ask for the source photos if needed.  Combine parts to
> economize on shipping. If you feel the asking price is too high, please
> make an offer.  Price includes shipping.
>
>  Campy GS crank, 170 length, 144 BCD, w/ 45 t ring. Threads in good
> condition. $40
>
> Pacenti Forza Classico rims, silver, asymmetric/symmetric pair, 32 hole,
> NIB $220
>
> Brooks Swallow, black, steel rails, like new condition.  $120
>
> B17s, brown with copper rivets. $65 each, or $100 for both.
>
> Suntour Superbe Pro 170 crank, 130 BCD, 53-39 rings. $40
>
> Cannondale faux carbon al seatpost. 27.2, uncut.  $20
>
> Promax ISO seatpost. 26.4, uncut.  $20
>
> SR Custom seatpost, 27.2 uncut.  $15
>
> Nitto Crystal Fellow seatpost. 27.2, uncut. $40
>
> Suntour XC Pro FD, 28.6. Chrome good condition. $25
>
> Shimano 105 long cage RD, RD-5501. $25
>
> Also have a short cage Tiagra. $15
>
> Paul Components skewers, black with orange, one bike’s worth 100/135. $90
>
> Dia Compe Royal Gran Compe brakes 47-57 mm reach, no pads. Recessed, all
> hardware.  $40
>
> Paul Components brakes, 1 bike’s worth. Touring Canti and Neo Retro,
> silver, dual compound Koolstop pads. straddle cables, red hangers.  $165
>
> Dia Compe 750 Centerpull brakes, NIB, 62-78 mm reach, no pads. Nutted, all
> hardware.  $45
>
> Avid Shorty cantis 1 bike’s worth. Koolstop/Tektro pads. Missing one
> barrel for QR end, no straddle cables. $20
>
> Shimano 1 speed FW 3/32 pitch 18 t, SF-MX30  $15
>
> Campagnolo Silca Pump metal head  $25
>
> Sanyo chainstay generator. NIB, includes wires, brackets, front/rear
> lights, manual  $25
>
> Ephemera, instruction/sales page for Christrophe toe clips. Raleigh tire
> pressure gauge, bag of zinc coated steel cables, good for making flexible
> straddle cables.
>
> Mike SLO CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] 1) Best source for SP PD 8 hubs. (2) WTB/WTT/WTG Fleecer Ridge tires

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, but the point of the exercise is to match hubs between the 2
wheelsets exactly so that the calipers and rotors require little
adjustment. When I tried an adaptor on an earlier second wheelset I had to
mess around a great deal with shims, which was a pain.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 2:24 PM R. Alexis  wrote:

> Could get a Centerlock to 6 bolt adapter.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Reginald Alexis
>
> On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 8:20:41 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Many thanks, Chris but I'm looking for a 6-bolt model.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 10:13 PM Chris Cullum 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a black QR 32h SP 8 dynohub. Light use, no issues. It's centre
>>> lock however. Let me know if you are interested.
>>>
>>> Chris Cullum
>>> Vancouver, BC
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 13:00 Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>> 1. What's the best source for SP PD 8 hubs? Alas, PJW does not sell them,
>>>> AFAICT.
>>>>
>>>> 1.bis) Note: I want the nicest SP 26"/28" 32-hole, QR-axle, BLACK,
>>>> 6-bolt rotor SP hub and from their pretty but ill-constructed website it's
>>>> hard to tell if this is the PD 8 or if there is some fugitive better
>>>> version lurking about somewhere on another page. So, question 1(bis): is
>>>> the PD 8 their best 6-bolt disc hub for 700C wheels?
>>>>
>>>> For that matter, does anyone have a BLACK, 32-hole, 6-bolt QR axle SP
>>>> dynohub for sale or trade?
>>>>
>>>> 2. Does anyone have some good-condition Fleecer Ridge tires for sale or
>>>> trade? If trade, whatcha lookin' for?
>>>>
>>>> Patrick Moore, who wishes he'd kept his small stash of (360 grams!! For
>>>> 50 mm!!) Furious Freds instead of selling them.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Patrick Moore
>>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>>>> services
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>>>
>>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>>>
>>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>>>
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>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/internet-bob/CALuTfgt-SsqY5L5FvyTLzE9vAzvaG_Rwa4dGDcPOJjBnhhRsNQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> -------
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
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[RBW] Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2023-2024 Ride Photos

[Patrick Moore]

I should have added that each cm of width (with corresponding drop in
pressure) adds very greatly to float over sand. 50s are the narrowest that
I care to ride in sand, at 18 to 20 all round pressure; 60s are noticeably
better at 17 or 18 all round; and the WTB Rangers at a non-full-expansion
72 mm at 13 psi were sit and push a 65" gear thru 3" sand that would have
50s skating and require deep downshifting, and require standing on the
60s.. I could grunt the Rangers thru 4" sand standing in a 65" single gear.

So, 60 vs 50 gives up a lot of float.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 2:13 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... Aside, related, question: what would *you* choose for mostly sandy
> off road riding: 60 mm* Fleecer Ridges sans fender protection to keep the
> sand and, occasionally, the mud and water off you and your bike or, 50 mm*
> Oracle Ridges that you can probably use safely under the Kelpie fenders?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Patrick Moore]

Ethan: Two suggestions:

1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle where it
should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle height and
setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is where I start my
setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your bar should be,
and choose stem and bar to suit.

2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar (narrowness
too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar:
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001

It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so short and
it has a very shallow drop *with* a 15 mm rise at the stem clamp. I used
one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it to a friend) to
get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by my road
standard) an immensely too long top tube (59.6 cm versus my preferred 56 or
57 cm). I tried it with several stems (expensive even with generic MVS or
whatever they were stems), going from 17* 9 cm to 30 or 35* 7 cm. Still a
wee bit far but much, much better. I went thru this bar and stem contortion
because even a Hover bar (mine was 44 cm) a cm or 2 too far away was better
than any non-drop bar I could find.


On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
...  I already have the seat forward on the rails, btw. I will swap the
stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next  would be  handlebars, going
shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like I shouldn't be afraid of
going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm Noodle, which feels wide
in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the Breezer, I went with
shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of those changes helped a
lot.

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Re: [RBW] What drop bar do you use on your Riv?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks re the Matthews. I'm glad Chauncey built me a couple of frames
before he quit the business. I hope to get a second wheelset for RH Fleecer
Ridge tires, ~60 mm on similar 27 mm IW rims.

Just had a very nice road ride on another bike with Maes Parallels and as
always they felt good in the hooks, on the ramps, on the hoods.

Does VO still make a Maes Parallel clone? They used to; I don't know how
wide they made them, though.

On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 9:42 AM Josh Lubben  wrote:

> Tim, the Nitto x Crust Shaka bar was one that had caught my attention.
> Wide but not overly wide. Not too much flare. Glad to hear you like it.
>
> Patrick, that is a lovely Matthews above. The Maes Parallels looks
> interesting, I wish it were offered in a slightly wider size than the 46cm.
>
> The last drop bar I used consistently for a few years (on a Surly Cross
> Check) was a 50 cm Curve Walmer bar. This was after many roadie years on 44
> cm bars. I quite like the wider Walmer bar, but thought the flare of the
> drops was too much. I'm thinking toward something around 48-50 cm width
> would be nice.
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 9:33:43 PM UTC-5 ber...@bernardduhon.com
> wrote:
>
>> Tried several including Rene Hearse Randonner & found the bends in the
>> bar left little room for the hands.
>>
>> Have Settled on the Nitto “noodle” that Riv sells Nitto number is 177.  I
>> find the bends & drop just right and the Tops & ramps roomy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On
>> Behalf Of *Josh Lubben
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 7, 2024 12:29 PM
>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>> *Subject:* [RBW] What drop bar do you use on your Riv?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All!
>>
>> I currently have an Albatross bar on my Homer, which I love. I also love
>> doing bar swaps from time to time on my bikes as it can make the bike feel
>> like a completely different bike.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm curious to hear what drop bars folks are running on whatever
>> Rivendell you happen to own? I've considered the Crust Towel Rack bar for
>> my Homer, so if you happen to be using one of those I'd love to hear your
>> thoughts on that bar/see any pictures you might have. But as the post title
>> suggests, I'd love to hear about any other drop bars y'all like to use.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, if you've switched from a swept back bar to a drop bar on your Riv,
>> what adjustments to stem length did you need to make? I know this can be
>> impacted by the bar of choice, but just wanting to get a sense of how much
>> of change you experience in stem length.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> --
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> .
>>
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>


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Re: [RBW] What drop bar do you use on your Riv?

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, after the Maes Parallel, the Noodle and the Nitto B135 rando bars were
next in comfort.

I used to use Nitto 185s 3" below saddle. I switched to longer reach bars
-- Noodle, B 135, Maes Parallel and VO clone -- 3 *centimeters* below
saddle. I kept the same 8 cm stems; the reach is about the same and the
comfort is much greater with the latter arrangement.

With Moustache bars I tried closer in and high but (on my road bikes) found
it "tippy" and awkward, so always used M-bars with the same 8 cm stem more
or less the same 3 cm below saddle. But even this hurt my palms as did all
other non-drop bars. The best non-drop bar was the shorter model of the
MAP/Ahearne with 4" cut off each end and cut-down Ergon grips. But even
with this on the Monocog 29er I switched to a drop bar.

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 4:00 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I've tried several varieties of Moustache bar, ever so many wide and
> flared drop bars starting with the original WTB bar, any number of
> "tourist" bars, straightish and sweepback, all sorts of straight mtb bars
> with and without bar ends, and various anatomical road bars (uck, agh,
> yuck, ptooey, gag, hack, pffft, sptuey), and I always, always, always go
> back to a 38 cm to 42 cm old-fashioned round-bend, long-ish reach, med to
> shallow-drop drop bar -- Nitto 185s to Noodles to, now, Maes Parallels. For
> drop bars, it's wide and anatomical that hurt my hands and annoy my
> shoulders more than flare.
>
> I've just cut my bikes to 3, and all of them have the Maes Parallel. The
> MPs on the 2 road bikes (that 1999 Joe Starck Riv Road custom and the 2020
> Matthews clone of the 2003 Curt Goodrich Riv Road custom) have 38 cm bars
> (at hoods) while my fat tire Matthews road bike has a wide 42 cm Maes
> Parallel. Note that I don't ride small frames: I was professionally fitted
> long ago for a 60 c-c.
>
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 2:23 PM Josh Lubben  wrote:
>
>> Hi All!
>> I currently have an Albatross bar on my Homer, which I love. I also love
>> doing bar swaps from time to time on my bikes as it can make the bike feel
>> like a completely different bike.
>>
>> I'm curious to hear what drop bars folks are running on whatever
>> Rivendell you happen to own? I've considered the Crust Towel Rack bar for
>> my Homer, so if you happen to be using one of those I'd love to hear your
>> thoughts on that bar/see any pictures you might have. But as the post title
>> suggests, I'd love to hear about any other drop bars y'all like to use.
>>
>> Also, if you've switched from a swept back bar to a drop bar on your Riv,
>> what adjustments to stem length did you need to make? I know this can be
>> impacted by the bar of choice, but just wanting to get a sense of how much
>> of change you experience in stem length.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Josh
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
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>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] What drop bar do you use on your Riv?

[Patrick Moore]

I've tried several varieties of Moustache bar, ever so many wide and flared
drop bars starting with the original WTB bar, any number of "tourist" bars,
straightish and sweepback, all sorts of straight mtb bars with and without
bar ends, and various anatomical road bars (uck, agh, yuck, ptooey, gag,
hack, pffft, sptuey), and I always, always, always go back to a 38 cm to 42
cm old-fashioned round-bend, long-ish reach, med to shallow-drop drop bar
-- Nitto 185s to Noodles to, now, Maes Parallels. For drop bars, it's wide
and anatomical that hurt my hands and annoy my shoulders more than flare.

I've just cut my bikes to 3, and all of them have the Maes Parallel. The
MPs on the 2 road bikes (that 1999 Joe Starck Riv Road custom and the 2020
Matthews clone of the 2003 Curt Goodrich Riv Road custom) have 38 cm bars
(at hoods) while my fat tire Matthews road bike has a wide 42 cm Maes
Parallel. Note that I don't ride small frames: I was professionally fitted
long ago for a 60 c-c.

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 2:23 PM Josh Lubben  wrote:

> Hi All!
> I currently have an Albatross bar on my Homer, which I love. I also love
> doing bar swaps from time to time on my bikes as it can make the bike feel
> like a completely different bike.
>
> I'm curious to hear what drop bars folks are running on whatever Rivendell
> you happen to own? I've considered the Crust Towel Rack bar for my Homer,
> so if you happen to be using one of those I'd love to hear your thoughts on
> that bar/see any pictures you might have. But as the post title suggests,
> I'd love to hear about any other drop bars y'all like to use.
>
> Also, if you've switched from a swept back bar to a drop bar on your Riv,
> what adjustments to stem length did you need to make? I know this can be
> impacted by the bar of choice, but just wanting to get a sense of how much
> of change you experience in stem length.
>
> Thanks!
> Josh
>
> --
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> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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