Re: [RBW] Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks; so just long-term and successful experience.

Aside: If you were to share ride photos from Portugal, I doubt people would
complain.

On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 12:48 AM Steven Sweedler  wrote:

> Patrick, when I sold a Raleigh International frame more than a decade ago,
> I committed to cantis only. The centerpulls on the Int. were not confidence
> inspiring on some of my local steep descents. I used Tektro 720’s, Paul Neo
> Retros and Shimano BR MC 70s. I haveused the MC 70s on at least 10 bikes
> for myself and friends and am very satidfied. The large KS pads last a few
> years and I get quiet strong braking. For the past few weeks I have been
> riding  some very steep dirt tracks  here in SW Portugal and had no issues.
> I bought a decent supply before prices crept up and have little interest in
> trying something else. An all too common attitude I adopt. I did switch to
> the shorter KS pads so the front brake opens all the way without hitting
> the fork blades.
>
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:57 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Steven: I'm curious about your reasons. I'm not contradicting, just
>> asking because I'd like to know any secrets for setting up cantilevers
>> properly. In fact, among the best brakes all around that I ever used --
>> mixing power and modulation and "feel" -- were IRD long-arms set up with
>> salmons on my 2010 Sam Hill, but then the Riv staff installed and adjusted
>> those. Drop bar levers. Me, I've never been able to get more than
>> "acceptable" braking with cantis of any sort and drop bar levers.
>>
>> I had my 2020 Matthews built for cantilevers in order to clear 42 mm
>> tires with fenders, but I sometimes wonder if I would not have done better
>> to have had pivots added for centerpulls which, IME, are much easier to set
>> up and which (again, IME), stop more "powerfully."
>>
>> At first I used Tektro CR 720s; I got rid of the violent squeal and
>> shudder by radical pad toe-in, and after that they were "acceptable." I
>> replaced those with Pauls which allowed a more normal toe-in without squeal
>> or shudder and which were perhaps a wee bit stronger. Most recently I
>> swapped out the steel Shimano headset mount housing stop in the front for a
>> much more expensive RH one, and that did improve front braking "strength."
>> Now the brakes are "quite adequate" but not as good as good single pivots
>> or the backing-plate centerpulls I've used -- Mafacs, Weinmanns, Tourneys,
>> Dura Ace.* And among the worst brakes I ever had were the Mafac cantilevers
>> (even tried the longer-arm tandem model on the front) on an old Herse --
>> despite salmon pads and a lot of time fiddling with cable angles.
>>
>> So, please explain the reason for your preference, and let us know of any
>> secrets for setting up cantilvers for optimum performance. Perhaps you have
>> in mind cantilevers with "flat bar" levers?
>>
>> Again: Not arguing! Seeking knowledge!
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> * I was told -- Olof Stroh, were did you go? -- that Shimano made Dura
>> Ace centerpulls for about 6 months in 1976, and I owned a pair. Someone had
>> hand polished them to a Rene Herse-like gleam, but they didn't work any
>> better than the Tourneys; both worked "well" but not "exceptionally well."
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 1:08 PM Steven Sweedler 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My vote is for cantilevers
>>>
>>> Steven Sweedler
>>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:05 PM Kyle Cotchett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey all,

 Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a
 local frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am
 looking to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having
 cantilever or centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who
 have ridden both?

 Kyle

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>>> 

Re: [RBW] Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Steven Sweedler]

Patrick, when I sold a Raleigh International frame more than a decade ago,
I committed to cantis only. The centerpulls on the Int. were not confidence
inspiring on some of my local steep descents. I used Tektro 720’s, Paul Neo
Retros and Shimano BR MC 70s. I haveused the MC 70s on at least 10 bikes
for myself and friends and am very satidfied. The large KS pads last a few
years and I get quiet strong braking. For the past few weeks I have been
riding  some very steep dirt tracks  here in SW Portugal and had no issues.
I bought a decent supply before prices crept up and have little interest in
trying something else. An all too common attitude I adopt. I did switch to
the shorter KS pads so the front brake opens all the way without hitting
the fork blades.

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire


On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:57 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Steven: I'm curious about your reasons. I'm not contradicting, just asking
> because I'd like to know any secrets for setting up cantilevers properly.
> In fact, among the best brakes all around that I ever used -- mixing power
> and modulation and "feel" -- were IRD long-arms set up with salmons on my
> 2010 Sam Hill, but then the Riv staff installed and adjusted those. Drop
> bar levers. Me, I've never been able to get more than "acceptable" braking
> with cantis of any sort and drop bar levers.
>
> I had my 2020 Matthews built for cantilevers in order to clear 42 mm tires
> with fenders, but I sometimes wonder if I would not have done better to
> have had pivots added for centerpulls which, IME, are much easier to set up
> and which (again, IME), stop more "powerfully."
>
> At first I used Tektro CR 720s; I got rid of the violent squeal and
> shudder by radical pad toe-in, and after that they were "acceptable." I
> replaced those with Pauls which allowed a more normal toe-in without squeal
> or shudder and which were perhaps a wee bit stronger. Most recently I
> swapped out the steel Shimano headset mount housing stop in the front for a
> much more expensive RH one, and that did improve front braking "strength."
> Now the brakes are "quite adequate" but not as good as good single pivots
> or the backing-plate centerpulls I've used -- Mafacs, Weinmanns, Tourneys,
> Dura Ace.* And among the worst brakes I ever had were the Mafac cantilevers
> (even tried the longer-arm tandem model on the front) on an old Herse --
> despite salmon pads and a lot of time fiddling with cable angles.
>
> So, please explain the reason for your preference, and let us know of any
> secrets for setting up cantilvers for optimum performance. Perhaps you have
> in mind cantilevers with "flat bar" levers?
>
> Again: Not arguing! Seeking knowledge!
>
> Thanks.
>
> * I was told -- Olof Stroh, were did you go? -- that Shimano made Dura Ace
> centerpulls for about 6 months in 1976, and I owned a pair. Someone had
> hand polished them to a Rene Herse-like gleam, but they didn't work any
> better than the Tourneys; both worked "well" but not "exceptionally well."
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 1:08 PM Steven Sweedler 
> wrote:
>
>> My vote is for cantilevers
>>
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:05 PM Kyle Cotchett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a local
>>> frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am looking
>>> to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having cantilever or
>>> centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who have ridden
>>> both?
>>>
>>> Kyle
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b827722c-44e6-4f80-8b2a-0c777da6c266n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALimyfJo8ZxA6e-B_mJ_aCgTi41Am2mhCB9dUEP%3D3XxHzKeGrQ%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, 

Re: [RBW] Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[vernon brooks]

I just had some similar modifications done on my wife’s Rambouillet that
I’ll be building for her later this year. All of the bikes that I’ve owned
in my adult life have been cantilever so it may be that I’m simply a
creature of habit. I will say it is nice not having to work around the
front brake if you’re intending to use a rack that mounts to the center
hole on fork crown. In the end it all comes down to preference and
intention. A brake is a brake and if you play around with it enough you’ll
likely get the same result.

On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 9:57 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Steven: I'm curious about your reasons. I'm not contradicting, just asking
> because I'd like to know any secrets for setting up cantilevers properly.
> In fact, among the best brakes all around that I ever used -- mixing power
> and modulation and "feel" -- were IRD long-arms set up with salmons on my
> 2010 Sam Hill, but then the Riv staff installed and adjusted those. Drop
> bar levers. Me, I've never been able to get more than "acceptable" braking
> with cantis of any sort and drop bar levers.
>
> I had my 2020 Matthews built for cantilevers in order to clear 42 mm tires
> with fenders, but I sometimes wonder if I would not have done better to
> have had pivots added for centerpulls which, IME, are much easier to set up
> and which (again, IME), stop more "powerfully."
>
> At first I used Tektro CR 720s; I got rid of the violent squeal and
> shudder by radical pad toe-in, and after that they were "acceptable." I
> replaced those with Pauls which allowed a more normal toe-in without squeal
> or shudder and which were perhaps a wee bit stronger. Most recently I
> swapped out the steel Shimano headset mount housing stop in the front for a
> much more expensive RH one, and that did improve front braking "strength."
> Now the brakes are "quite adequate" but not as good as good single pivots
> or the backing-plate centerpulls I've used -- Mafacs, Weinmanns, Tourneys,
> Dura Ace.* And among the worst brakes I ever had were the Mafac cantilevers
> (even tried the longer-arm tandem model on the front) on an old Herse --
> despite salmon pads and a lot of time fiddling with cable angles.
>
> So, please explain the reason for your preference, and let us know of any
> secrets for setting up cantilvers for optimum performance. Perhaps you have
> in mind cantilevers with "flat bar" levers?
>
> Again: Not arguing! Seeking knowledge!
>
> Thanks.
>
> * I was told -- Olof Stroh, were did you go? -- that Shimano made Dura Ace
> centerpulls for about 6 months in 1976, and I owned a pair. Someone had
> hand polished them to a Rene Herse-like gleam, but they didn't work any
> better than the Tourneys; both worked "well" but not "exceptionally well."
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 1:08 PM Steven Sweedler 
> wrote:
>
>> My vote is for cantilevers
>>
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:05 PM Kyle Cotchett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a local
>>> frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am looking
>>> to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having cantilever or
>>> centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who have ridden
>>> both?
>>>
>>> Kyle
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b827722c-44e6-4f80-8b2a-0c777da6c266n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALimyfJo8ZxA6e-B_mJ_aCgTi41Am2mhCB9dUEP%3D3XxHzKeGrQ%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I 

Re: [RBW] Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Patrick Moore]

Steven: I'm curious about your reasons. I'm not contradicting, just asking
because I'd like to know any secrets for setting up cantilevers properly.
In fact, among the best brakes all around that I ever used -- mixing power
and modulation and "feel" -- were IRD long-arms set up with salmons on my
2010 Sam Hill, but then the Riv staff installed and adjusted those. Drop
bar levers. Me, I've never been able to get more than "acceptable" braking
with cantis of any sort and drop bar levers.

I had my 2020 Matthews built for cantilevers in order to clear 42 mm tires
with fenders, but I sometimes wonder if I would not have done better to
have had pivots added for centerpulls which, IME, are much easier to set up
and which (again, IME), stop more "powerfully."

At first I used Tektro CR 720s; I got rid of the violent squeal and shudder
by radical pad toe-in, and after that they were "acceptable." I replaced
those with Pauls which allowed a more normal toe-in without squeal or
shudder and which were perhaps a wee bit stronger. Most recently I swapped
out the steel Shimano headset mount housing stop in the front for a much
more expensive RH one, and that did improve front braking "strength." Now
the brakes are "quite adequate" but not as good as good single pivots or
the backing-plate centerpulls I've used -- Mafacs, Weinmanns, Tourneys,
Dura Ace.* And among the worst brakes I ever had were the Mafac cantilevers
(even tried the longer-arm tandem model on the front) on an old Herse --
despite salmon pads and a lot of time fiddling with cable angles.

So, please explain the reason for your preference, and let us know of any
secrets for setting up cantilvers for optimum performance. Perhaps you have
in mind cantilevers with "flat bar" levers?

Again: Not arguing! Seeking knowledge!

Thanks.

* I was told -- Olof Stroh, were did you go? -- that Shimano made Dura Ace
centerpulls for about 6 months in 1976, and I owned a pair. Someone had
hand polished them to a Rene Herse-like gleam, but they didn't work any
better than the Tourneys; both worked "well" but not "exceptionally well."

On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 1:08 PM Steven Sweedler  wrote:

> My vote is for cantilevers
>
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:05 PM Kyle Cotchett 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a local
>> frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am looking
>> to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having cantilever or
>> centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who have ridden
>> both?
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b827722c-44e6-4f80-8b2a-0c777da6c266n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Steven Sweedler]

My vote is for cantilevers

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire


On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 8:05 PM Kyle Cotchett 
wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a local
> frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am looking
> to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having cantilever or
> centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who have ridden
> both?
>
> Kyle
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b827722c-44e6-4f80-8b2a-0c777da6c266n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Kyle Cotchett]

Hey all,

Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a local 
frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am looking 
to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having cantilever or 
centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who have ridden 
both?

Kyle

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