Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-09-16 Thread 'Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch
John, please do post some pictures when your Greenspot arrives.

Eamon

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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-09-16 Thread John Bokman
Well, I opted for the 2x Ventile Greenspot jacket, even though I was really 
interested in a smock. It won't be here for 6-8 weeks, so won't be able to 
report for a while yet.
I wanted the jacket because it will be primarily used as a 
commuting/general purpose jacket, and a zipper is more convenient for me  
in those situations. If I were buying a specific use garment I'd rather go 
with the smock.

And based on the interesting notes from Andy about color impregnation, I 
opted for dull, drab Olive green, because, for my use, it's more versatile. 
If I want to be seen - I do - I'll employ a vest of some sort over the 
jacket when it's truly dark. 

Thanks to you guys who chimed in with thoughts, impressions, and opinions.

BTW, Dave over at Hilltrek is very helpful, and prompt with his responses 
to my many questions over the internet.

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 2:05:14 AM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote:
>
> John, you're right and I've lost my mind! Ghosts of previous shells that 
> needed pit zips any more have addled me. Only dropping the front zip has 
> been necessary to get all the venting needed (duh, that was the primary 
> attraction of Ventile to me).
>
> Sorry for the confusion. It clearly has been warm enough that I've been 
> without my Braemar's use for some months. 
>
> Side note: Farmer's Almanac says it's going to be very cold and snowy 
> here. I'll be in it daily for long stretches soon.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> Andy, I didn’t realize the Braemar had pit zips? I don’t see this detail 
>> on their specifications page. Pit zips would certainly help in airflow no 
>> matter what the fabric.
>>
>> You have the DV or the Hybrid?
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:02 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
>>
>> I didn't option my Braemar with side zips, I get how they could be 
>> helpful when getting out of the smock/anorak. Available on the 
>> customization options for 50 BSP. As airflow is concerned, with my neck zip 
>> down and the pit zips opened up, ventilation is not an issue. Certainly not 
>> for the complication and $65 of the option. I vote with entropy; avoid 
>> unnecessary complexities to assure prolonged baseline function.
>>
>> I am very pleased with my garment and simply ecstatic to have found 
>> something that is not synthetic, crunchy, stiff, and noisy. My experiences 
>> with technical shells has been highlighted by inferior water repelling 
>> performance, poor vapor ventilation, and lack of sustained function or 
>> durability under regular use. I think my 2-3 year cycle of disappointment 
>> with shell jackets is over now.
>>
>> I picked red as Patrick did for the visibility practicality. I have both 
>> a reflective mesh Nathan safety vest and reflective Tuvizo belt/shoulder 
>> strap rig to wear on top if my visibility concerns are greater than that. 
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:57:06 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Patrick and Andy for your assistance. Very interesting about the 
>>> coloration of cottons. I had no idea.
>>>
>>> I’m not one who would wear “neon” green or yellow, but I’m partial to a 
>>> “warm” color like orange or red to be seen on the road.
>>>
>>> Guys: Do you have size zips for your smock? I would suspect they’d not 
>>> only help with removal but with allowing more airflow?
>>>
>>> I assume with the weight of the smock being over 2#, I would only need a 
>>> thin layer underneath and I’d be plenty warm. Most of my rain season (8 
>>> months a year)  riding is done at (wet) temperatures between 35-60 degrees. 
>>>
>>> Any additional comments on your products and use are welcome as I try to 
>>> make choices. I’m sick and tired of burning through plastics, no matter how 
>>> “advanced” or “improved”.
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 4:46 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
>>>
>>> John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 
>>>
>>> Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV 
>>> degradation of the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The 
>>> base fabric dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a 
>>> coloring dye, cotton is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
>>> https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF
>>>
>>> Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") 
>>> colors ruled ski gear, we had a one day in the window policy for displays. 
>>> They were rotated to even the exposure and the merchandisers had worksheets 
>>> that were kept by the displays near the UV blocking windows because we 
>>> observed fade from brief display in direct sunlight despite the glass 
>>> choice, even non-fluorescent colors. 
>>>
>>> In that same era Grant wrote in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about 
>>> color: 
>>> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm
>>>
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-31 Thread ascpgh
John, you're right and I've lost my mind! Ghosts of previous shells that 
needed pit zips any more have addled me. Only dropping the front zip has 
been necessary to get all the venting needed (duh, that was the primary 
attraction of Ventile to me).

Sorry for the confusion. It clearly has been warm enough that I've been 
without my Braemar's use for some months. 

Side note: Farmer's Almanac says it's going to be very cold and snowy here. 
I'll be in it daily for long stretches soon.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>
> Andy, I didn’t realize the Braemar had pit zips? I don’t see this detail 
> on their specifications page. Pit zips would certainly help in airflow no 
> matter what the fabric.
>
> You have the DV or the Hybrid?
>
> On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:02 AM, ascpgh > 
> wrote:
>
> I didn't option my Braemar with side zips, I get how they could be helpful 
> when getting out of the smock/anorak. Available on the customization 
> options for 50 BSP. As airflow is concerned, with my neck zip down and the 
> pit zips opened up, ventilation is not an issue. Certainly not for the 
> complication and $65 of the option. I vote with entropy; avoid unnecessary 
> complexities to assure prolonged baseline function.
>
> I am very pleased with my garment and simply ecstatic to have found 
> something that is not synthetic, crunchy, stiff, and noisy. My experiences 
> with technical shells has been highlighted by inferior water repelling 
> performance, poor vapor ventilation, and lack of sustained function or 
> durability under regular use. I think my 2-3 year cycle of disappointment 
> with shell jackets is over now.
>
> I picked red as Patrick did for the visibility practicality. I have both a 
> reflective mesh Nathan safety vest and reflective Tuvizo belt/shoulder 
> strap rig to wear on top if my visibility concerns are greater than that. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:57:06 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Patrick and Andy for your assistance. Very interesting about the 
>> coloration of cottons. I had no idea.
>>
>> I’m not one who would wear “neon” green or yellow, but I’m partial to a 
>> “warm” color like orange or red to be seen on the road.
>>
>> Guys: Do you have size zips for your smock? I would suspect they’d not 
>> only help with removal but with allowing more airflow?
>>
>> I assume with the weight of the smock being over 2#, I would only need a 
>> thin layer underneath and I’d be plenty warm. Most of my rain season (8 
>> months a year)  riding is done at (wet) temperatures between 35-60 degrees. 
>>
>> Any additional comments on your products and use are welcome as I try to 
>> make choices. I’m sick and tired of burning through plastics, no matter how 
>> “advanced” or “improved”.
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 4:46 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
>>
>> John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 
>>
>> Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV 
>> degradation of the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The 
>> base fabric dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a 
>> coloring dye, cotton is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
>> https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF
>>
>> Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") 
>> colors ruled ski gear, we had a one day in the window policy for displays. 
>> They were rotated to even the exposure and the merchandisers had worksheets 
>> that were kept by the displays near the UV blocking windows because we 
>> observed fade from brief display in direct sunlight despite the glass 
>> choice, even non-fluorescent colors. 
>>
>> In that same era Grant wrote in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about color: 
>> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Patrick! 
>>> Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d 
>>> rather buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to 
>>> do otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps 
>>> slightly more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real 
>>> bonus for me. (I’d upset to the side zips, as well.) 
>>> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: 
>>> > 
>>> > John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
>>> described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on 
>>> a bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
>>> prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
>>> bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier), I’d email them. 
>>> > 
>>> > 

Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-30 Thread john Bokman
Andy, I didn’t realize the Braemar had pit zips? I don’t see this detail on 
their specifications page. Pit zips would certainly help in airflow no matter 
what the fabric.

You have the DV or the Hybrid?

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:02 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
> 
> I didn't option my Braemar with side zips, I get how they could be helpful 
> when getting out of the smock/anorak. Available on the customization options 
> for 50 BSP. As airflow is concerned, with my neck zip down and the pit zips 
> opened up, ventilation is not an issue. Certainly not for the complication 
> and $65 of the option. I vote with entropy; avoid unnecessary complexities to 
> assure prolonged baseline function.
> 
> I am very pleased with my garment and simply ecstatic to have found something 
> that is not synthetic, crunchy, stiff, and noisy. My experiences with 
> technical shells has been highlighted by inferior water repelling 
> performance, poor vapor ventilation, and lack of sustained function or 
> durability under regular use. I think my 2-3 year cycle of disappointment 
> with shell jackets is over now.
> 
> I picked red as Patrick did for the visibility practicality. I have both a 
> reflective mesh Nathan safety vest and reflective Tuvizo belt/shoulder strap 
> rig to wear on top if my visibility concerns are greater than that. 
> 
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:57:06 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
> Thanks Patrick and Andy for your assistance. Very interesting about the 
> coloration of cottons. I had no idea.
> 
> I’m not one who would wear “neon” green or yellow, but I’m partial to a 
> “warm” color like orange or red to be seen on the road.
> 
> Guys: Do you have size zips for your smock? I would suspect they’d not only 
> help with removal but with allowing more airflow?
> 
> I assume with the weight of the smock being over 2#, I would only need a thin 
> layer underneath and I’d be plenty warm. Most of my rain season (8 months a 
> year)  riding is done at (wet) temperatures between 35-60 degrees. 
> 
> Any additional comments on your products and use are welcome as I try to make 
> choices. I’m sick and tired of burning through plastics, no matter how 
> “advanced” or “improved”.
>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 4:46 AM, ascpgh gmail.com 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 
>> 
>> Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV degradation 
>> of the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The base fabric 
>> dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a coloring dye, 
>> cotton is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
>> https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") colors 
>> ruled ski gear, we had a one day in the window policy for displays. They 
>> were rotated to even the exposure and the merchandisers had worksheets that 
>> were kept by the displays near the UV blocking windows because we observed 
>> fade from brief display in direct sunlight despite the glass choice, even 
>> non-fluorescent colors. 
>> 
>> In that same era Grant wrote in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about color: 
>> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm 
>> 
>> 
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>> 
>> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>> Thanks Patrick! 
>> Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d 
>> rather buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to 
>> do otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps 
>> slightly more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real 
>> bonus for me. (I’d upset to the side zips, as well.) 
>> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>> > > wrote: 
>> > 
>> > John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
>> > described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on 
>> > a bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
>> > prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
>> > bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier), I’d email them. 
>> > 
>> > With abandon, 
>> > Patrick 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
>> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Ajcfuk3Bwjs/unsubscribe 
>> > .
>> >  
>> > To unsubscribe from this 

Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-30 Thread ascpgh
I didn't option my Braemar with side zips, I get how they could be helpful 
when getting out of the smock/anorak. Available on the customization 
options for 50 BSP. As airflow is concerned, with my neck zip down and the 
pit zips opened up, ventilation is not an issue. Certainly not for the 
complication and $65 of the option. I vote with entropy; avoid unnecessary 
complexities to assure prolonged baseline function.

I am very pleased with my garment and simply ecstatic to have found 
something that is not synthetic, crunchy, stiff, and noisy. My experiences 
with technical shells has been highlighted by inferior water repelling 
performance, poor vapor ventilation, and lack of sustained function or 
durability under regular use. I think my 2-3 year cycle of disappointment 
with shell jackets is over now.

I picked red as Patrick did for the visibility practicality. I have both a 
reflective mesh Nathan safety vest and reflective Tuvizo belt/shoulder 
strap rig to wear on top if my visibility concerns are greater than that. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh



On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:57:06 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>
> Thanks Patrick and Andy for your assistance. Very interesting about the 
> coloration of cottons. I had no idea.
>
> I’m not one who would wear “neon” green or yellow, but I’m partial to a 
> “warm” color like orange or red to be seen on the road.
>
> Guys: Do you have size zips for your smock? I would suspect they’d not 
> only help with removal but with allowing more airflow?
>
> I assume with the weight of the smock being over 2#, I would only need a 
> thin layer underneath and I’d be plenty warm. Most of my rain season (8 
> months a year)  riding is done at (wet) temperatures between 35-60 degrees. 
>
> Any additional comments on your products and use are welcome as I try to 
> make choices. I’m sick and tired of burning through plastics, no matter how 
> “advanced” or “improved”.
>
> On Aug 30, 2018, at 4:46 AM, ascpgh > 
> wrote:
>
> John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 
>
> Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV degradation 
> of the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The base fabric 
> dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a coloring dye, 
> cotton is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
> https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF
>
> Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") colors 
> ruled ski gear, we had a one day in the window policy for displays. They 
> were rotated to even the exposure and the merchandisers had worksheets that 
> were kept by the displays near the UV blocking windows because we observed 
> fade from brief display in direct sunlight despite the glass choice, even 
> non-fluorescent colors. 
>
> In that same era Grant wrote in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about color: 
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Patrick! 
>> Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d 
>> rather buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to 
>> do otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps 
>> slightly more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real 
>> bonus for me. (I’d upset to the side zips, as well.) 
>> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
>> described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on 
>> a bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
>> prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
>> bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier), I’d email them. 
>> > 
>> > With abandon, 
>> > Patrick 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
>> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Ajcfuk3Bwjs/unsubscribe. 
>>
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>>
>>
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-30 Thread 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch
John, I found the zips to be of minimal use and annoying on the bike, having to 
tuck the front flap under to prevent flapping with each pedal stroke. The 
standard smock easily bunches up a bit at the waist in front, still being 
longer to cover my rear. My newer red smock does not have them and I prefer 
their absence. Ventilation via neck and wrist openings works well.

I of course still sweat when riding, so repenting on temp, under layers get 
damp (similar to a cotton long sleeve shirt on a hot day), and dry out quickly. 
At temps below 40, a fishnet baselayer goes a long way to aiding this moisture 
management.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-30 Thread john Bokman
Thanks Patrick and Andy for your assistance. Very interesting about the 
coloration of cottons. I had no idea.

I’m not one who would wear “neon” green or yellow, but I’m partial to a “warm” 
color like orange or red to be seen on the road.

Guys: Do you have size zips for your smock? I would suspect they’d not only 
help with removal but with allowing more airflow?

I assume with the weight of the smock being over 2#, I would only need a thin 
layer underneath and I’d be plenty warm. Most of my rain season (8 months a 
year)  riding is done at (wet) temperatures between 35-60 degrees. 

Any additional comments on your products and use are welcome as I try to make 
choices. I’m sick and tired of burning through plastics, no matter how 
“advanced” or “improved”.
> On Aug 30, 2018, at 4:46 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
> 
> John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 
> 
> Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV degradation of 
> the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The base fabric 
> dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a coloring dye, cotton 
> is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
> https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF
>  
> 
> 
> Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") colors 
> ruled ski gear, we had a one day in the window policy for displays. They were 
> rotated to even the exposure and the merchandisers had worksheets that were 
> kept by the displays near the UV blocking windows because we observed fade 
> from brief display in direct sunlight despite the glass choice, even 
> non-fluorescent colors. 
> 
> In that same era Grant wrote in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about color: 
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm 
> 
> 
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> 
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
> Thanks Patrick! 
> Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d 
> rather buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to do 
> otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps slightly 
> more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real bonus for me. 
> (I’d upset to the side zips, as well.) 
> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
> > > wrote: 
> > 
> > John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
> > described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on 
> > a bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
> > prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
> > bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier), I’d email them. 
> > 
> > With abandon, 
> > Patrick 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
> > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
> > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Ajcfuk3Bwjs/unsubscribe 
> > .
> >  
> > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
> > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> > . 
> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch 
> > . 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> > . 
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-30 Thread ascpgh
John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 

Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV degradation 
of the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The base fabric 
dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a coloring dye, 
cotton is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF

Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") colors 
ruled ski gear, we had a one day in the window policy for displays. They 
were rotated to even the exposure and the merchandisers had worksheets that 
were kept by the displays near the UV blocking windows because we observed 
fade from brief display in direct sunlight despite the glass choice, even 
non-fluorescent colors. 

In that same era Grant wrote in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about color: 
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>
> Thanks Patrick! 
> Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d 
> rather buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to 
> do otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps 
> slightly more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real 
> bonus for me. (I’d upset to the side zips, as well.) 
> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote: 
> > 
> > John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
> described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on 
> a bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
> prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
> bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier), I’d email them. 
> > 
> > With abandon, 
> > Patrick 
> > 
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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-30 Thread 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch
John, the “clear reason” for me to go with cotton analogy is it removes 
moisture via capilary action. Otherwise, I agree, all cotton would be 
preferable.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-29 Thread john Bokman
Thanks Patrick!
Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d rather 
buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to do 
otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps slightly 
more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real bonus for me. 
(I’d upset to the side zips, as well.)
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
> described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on a 
> bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
> prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
> bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier), I’d email them.
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick 
> 
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[RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-28 Thread 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch
I wear their Foinaven Smock. 
https://hilltrek.co.uk/clothing/smocks/foinaven-smock/
I got it in red after my brain healed to the point I was riding trafficed roads 
and needed to be seen. Before that, I had a blue Liathach Smock, but found I 
didn’t need the extra features (my wife wears it now ... she is too smart to 
ride when it’s wet or frozen out!).

If I was getting a jacket only for cycling, I’d size down to a medium smock 
(they don’t offer their greenspot cycling jacket in cotton analogy), but since 
I also want to layer under, I am happy with the large. Yes, they size jackets 
up accordingly. Mine is a large, and that is what I generally wear in a shirt 
(either M long or L long, my monkey arms make it tricky). I do fine with even a 
boiled wool sweater underneith, though just.

I’ve talked the ventile and Cotton Analogy up before, but I’ll repeat a few 
things for anyone new:

The “analogy” part is a liner that actively pushes moisture out (both humidity 
and liquid) and essentially makes the jacket suitable as an insulative layer, 
so while the jacket is bulkier than plastic/nylon/goretex jackets, it replaces 
a wool shirt layer. Be aware of this, as if you want the jacket for warm/wet 
(which I don’t wear a jacket for) you will swelter. The jacket is perfect for 
Scotland/Colorado wet, where temps are 60’s or far lower when it rains or snows.

Expectations when wearing: Once the outter “fake” waterproofing wears off, the 
jacket feels better and I think functions better, but it functions by swelling 
the outer layer’s cotton fibers to make them water proof. Moisture from 
exhurtion is then pushed out by the liner. So, the jacket gets wet and stiff 
from the water absorption, but the liner keeps this from soaking through to you 
as well as getting rid of sweat. 

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-28 Thread WETH
I have been eyeing those.  Thanks for heads up on the discount.  Might still be 
a bit too pricey for my budget, but I have a few days to ponder.  Do you have 
the smock?  Did you size up to allow layering underneath or does the garment 
fit loose in your recommended size (going by chest measurement)?
Thanks again

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[RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

2018-08-28 Thread 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch
Best rain jacket I’ve ever had, going on over five years now. No affiliation, 
just a very satisfied customer. 20% off cotton analogy through August. 
https://hilltrek.co.uk/shop-by-material/cotton-analogy/

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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