[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Thanks again to everyone for your replies. Doug: I'm getting it mostly on the granny ring, sometimes on the middle, with the rear derailer on the smaller cogs. Almost exclusively on dirty, so probably fairly bumpy. Cyclofiend: Hmm... its hard to say. I will have to get some opinions from Gernot and Kip when I see them. Michael: The XD2 is totally stock. Thomas: Yes, I emailed Keven about the different spindle sizes and he replied to say the site was out of date with regards to that little fact. Thanks for sharing your configuration info. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Doug: I'm getting it mostly on the granny ring, sometimes on the middle, with the rear derailer on the smaller cogs. Almost exclusively on dirty, so probably fairly bumpy. Granny on the smaller cogs means not much tension on the chain. Shift to the granny big cog, and note where the RD cage is and feel the chain tension. Then shift out to a small cog you'll see the cage swing way back to take up the slack. Feel the chain tension. It will be a lot less. Then try the same observation in the middle big rings. On the big you may want to forgo using the largest 2 cogs as the chain tension gets high and the angle kinda extreme. IME the combinations of the granny the 3 or 4 largest cogs is fairly reliable. By the time you're out to the middle of cluster, it's time to shift to the middle. In the middle ring you should be able to use all the cogs reliably. What I've found (the hard way, of course) is I'd climb a steep hill on the granny big cog, go over the top, shift up a few cogs for the downhill, bounce around a bit the chain would either fall off to the inside or get sucked up against the stay. A more experienced rider suggested shifting to the middle ring once over the top so as to put some tension on the chain for the bouncy downhill. dougP On Feb 17, 6:25 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks again to everyone for your replies. Doug: I'm getting it mostly on the granny ring, sometimes on the middle, with the rear derailer on the smaller cogs. Almost exclusively on dirty, so probably fairly bumpy. Cyclofiend: Hmm... its hard to say. I will have to get some opinions from Gernot and Kip when I see them. Michael: The XD2 is totally stock. Thomas: Yes, I emailed Keven about the different spindle sizes and he replied to say the site was out of date with regards to that little fact. Thanks for sharing your configuration info. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
I have had problems with chain suck on many bikes. IME easily fixed with Deda fang: http://www.amazon.com/Deda-Fang-Bicycle-Chain-Keeper/dp/B001SIEXQK currently in use on several Rivendells, a Richard Sachs, and others housed in my garage. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
James: Thanks for that info! Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis that uses 107 mm. Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter? On Feb 16, 1:30 pm, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: I have the same size Hillborne (but earlier Taiwan version) with the same crank (Sugino XD-2), same chain (SRAM 9 speed), older generation but NOS low normal XT derailer (but different front derailer, though I can't see how that would matter), and have no issues with chain suck (okay, 2 or 3 instances in 1.5 yrs, probably with dirty chain). I also run a 9 sp Shimano cassette on a 9 sp Shimano hub, versus Paul's 7 sp Shimano freewheel on Phil hub, but can't see how that would matter. How about BB spindle length? It's a long shot, but if the spindle is too long, I could see that contributing. Gernot On Feb 16, 7:19 am, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Paul: Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC 9 speed is narrower. I always buy ones marked 6/7/8 speed for my 8 speed. I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 get several. Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a chain. It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry, the whole place is paved over). You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd. Maybe climbing in the granny middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension? Hit a bump or something? Just a thought. If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here next time. That doesn't do you any good today but for future. If Kip Gernot have no problems you're the only 9 speed user, that could be a clue. dougP On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
You will need a caliper. Pull the pedals off and measure the length of the spindle. It only matters if you are unhappy with the chain line. You can check out Sheldon's web site for a good discussion of this. Of course, the other possibility here is that the first law mechanics has been violated. Never try fix anything on a bad hair day. I have violated this law many times and have always been caught and punished for it. michael, Westford Vt, where despite the promise of warmer weather it is -10 this morning. On Feb 16, 5:35 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: James: Thanks for that info! Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis that uses 107 mm. Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter? On Feb 16, 1:30 pm, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: I have the same size Hillborne (but earlier Taiwan version) with the same crank (Sugino XD-2), same chain (SRAM 9 speed), older generation but NOS low normal XT derailer (but different front derailer, though I can't see how that would matter), and have no issues with chain suck (okay, 2 or 3 instances in 1.5 yrs, probably with dirty chain). I also run a 9 sp Shimano cassette on a 9 sp Shimano hub, versus Paul's 7 sp Shimano freewheel on Phil hub, but can't see how that would matter. How about BB spindle length? It's a long shot, but if the spindle is too long, I could see that contributing. Gernot On Feb 16, 7:19 am, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Paul: Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC 9 speed is narrower. I always buy ones marked 6/7/8 speed for my 8 speed. I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 get several. Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a chain. It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry, the whole place is paved over). You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd. Maybe climbing in the granny middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension? Hit a bump or something? Just a thought. If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here next time. That doesn't do you any good today but for future. If Kip Gernot have no problems you're the only 9 speed user, that could be a clue. dougP On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
I think Michael meant to say you have to pull the cranks, and measure the spindle length. I have calipers if you want them. I don't know if spindle length matters. I was just thinking that if the spindle is too long, than the chain might be exiting the granny not in a straight line heading for the big cog, but is being bent sideways to the left, which could perhaps make it more reluctant to release from the chainring. A too short spindle could perhaps do the same thing, bending the chain to the right. Take a photo from the rear with the chain on the granny and largest cog. Is the chainline straight? Take a photo of the clearance between the chainrings and the chainstay from above. Is it really tight, or is there lots of space? Just to re-iterate, I am flying by the seat of my pants here. Just trying to think out of the box. Gernot On Feb 16, 7:14 pm, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: You will need a caliper. Pull the pedals off and measure the length of the spindle. It only matters if you are unhappy with the chain line. You can check out Sheldon's web site for a good discussion of this. Of course, the other possibility here is that the first law mechanics has been violated. Never try fix anything on a bad hair day. I have violated this law many times and have always been caught and punished for it. michael, Westford Vt, where despite the promise of warmer weather it is -10 this morning. On Feb 16, 5:35 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: James: Thanks for that info! Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis that uses 107 mm. Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter? On Feb 16, 1:30 pm, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: I have the same size Hillborne (but earlier Taiwan version) with the same crank (Sugino XD-2), same chain (SRAM 9 speed), older generation but NOS low normal XT derailer (but different front derailer, though I can't see how that would matter), and have no issues with chain suck (okay, 2 or 3 instances in 1.5 yrs, probably with dirty chain). I also run a 9 sp Shimano cassette on a 9 sp Shimano hub, versus Paul's 7 sp Shimano freewheel on Phil hub, but can't see how that would matter. How about BB spindle length? It's a long shot, but if the spindle is too long, I could see that contributing. Gernot On Feb 16, 7:19 am, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Paul: Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC 9 speed is narrower. I always buy ones marked 6/7/8 speed for my 8 speed. I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 get several. Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a chain. It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry, the whole place is paved over). You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd. Maybe climbing in the granny middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension? Hit a bump or something? Just a thought. If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here next time. That doesn't do you any good today but for future. If Kip Gernot have no problems you're the only 9 speed user, that could be a clue. dougP On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Much thanks to all your thought and effort! Chain line looks ok looking at the pics. Michael: I'm not sure if that law has been violated... this problem has been chronic. Gernot: I can't judge if its a lot or a little space, but the pics are here if you care to look! I've got calipers thanks, will get the cranks off if necessary but the chain like looks ok in the pics. What do you think? http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulatwork/sets/72157625941494045/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Paul: I'm not betting on the spindle length. IME it's not critical. My Atlantis came with a 116, which I replaced with a 110 when the original died. The Atlantis chainstays really stick out there, and the 110 leaves only about 2 mm gap between the middle ring the chainstay. So you should be OK with a 107 on your bike. The FD shouldn't matter. I think a lot of labeling stuff 9speed or 10speed is marketing. Sounds like the big difference between your bike Gernot's is he's got all 9 speed you've got a mix. Check out Sheldon's website for the details but there may be a difference in chainring thickness between 6/7/8 and 9 speed. Cogs are thinner on higher count cogsets. Under what conditions do you experience chainsuck? Big ring to middle, granny, rear shifts? Bumpy conditions? Does the chain get hung up between 2 rings? dougP On Feb 16, 2:35 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: James: Thanks for that info! Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis that uses 107 mm. Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter? On Feb 16, 1:30 pm, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: I have the same size Hillborne (but earlier Taiwan version) with the same crank (Sugino XD-2), same chain (SRAM 9 speed), older generation but NOS low normal XT derailer (but different front derailer, though I can't see how that would matter), and have no issues with chain suck (okay, 2 or 3 instances in 1.5 yrs, probably with dirty chain). I also run a 9 sp Shimano cassette on a 9 sp Shimano hub, versus Paul's 7 sp Shimano freewheel on Phil hub, but can't see how that would matter. How about BB spindle length? It's a long shot, but if the spindle is too long, I could see that contributing. Gernot On Feb 16, 7:19 am, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Paul: Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC 9 speed is narrower. I always buy ones marked 6/7/8 speed for my 8 speed. I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 get several. Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a chain. It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry, the whole place is paved over). You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd. Maybe climbing in the granny middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension? Hit a bump or something? Just a thought. If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here next time. That doesn't do you any good today but for future. If Kip Gernot have no problems you're the only 9 speed user, that could be a clue. dougP On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
on 2/16/11 6:45 AM, Paul Yeoh at rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulatwork/sets/72157625941494045/ Hard to say from the angles, but it almost looks like your front derailleur has been twisted slightly on the seat tube. -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Do you have the stock Sugino rings? I originally used the Sugino triple (on a Rambouillet), but had replaced the rings with Shimano. I had a fair amount of chain suck between the big and middle ring. I added a very small spacer behind the middle ring and that solved the problem. It did however make reassembly after cleaning a pain; along with the dopey hidden bolt thing. I switched to DaVinci (really White Ind) on my touring/commuting bike and like them much better. Then I went to a 44/30 on a White dbl on the Rambouillet. michael On Feb 16, 11:37 am, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Paul: I'm not betting on the spindle length. IME it's not critical. My Atlantis came with a 116, which I replaced with a 110 when the original died. The Atlantis chainstays really stick out there, and the 110 leaves only about 2 mm gap between the middle ring the chainstay. So you should be OK with a 107 on your bike. The FD shouldn't matter. I think a lot of labeling stuff 9speed or 10speed is marketing. Sounds like the big difference between your bike Gernot's is he's got all 9 speed you've got a mix. Check out Sheldon's website for the details but there may be a difference in chainring thickness between 6/7/8 and 9 speed. Cogs are thinner on higher count cogsets. Under what conditions do you experience chainsuck? Big ring to middle, granny, rear shifts? Bumpy conditions? Does the chain get hung up between 2 rings? dougP On Feb 16, 2:35 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: James: Thanks for that info! Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis that uses 107 mm. Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter? On Feb 16, 1:30 pm, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: I have the same size Hillborne (but earlier Taiwan version) with the same crank (Sugino XD-2), same chain (SRAM 9 speed), older generation but NOS low normal XT derailer (but different front derailer, though I can't see how that would matter), and have no issues with chain suck (okay, 2 or 3 instances in 1.5 yrs, probably with dirty chain). I also run a 9 sp Shimano cassette on a 9 sp Shimano hub, versus Paul's 7 sp Shimano freewheel on Phil hub, but can't see how that would matter. How about BB spindle length? It's a long shot, but if the spindle is too long, I could see that contributing. Gernot On Feb 16, 7:19 am, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Paul: Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC 9 speed is narrower. I always buy ones marked 6/7/8 speed for my 8 speed. I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 get several. Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a chain. It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry, the whole place is paved over). You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd. Maybe climbing in the granny middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension? Hit a bump or something? Just a thought. If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here next time. That doesn't do you any good today but for future. If Kip Gernot have no problems you're the only 9 speed user, that could be a clue. dougP On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
On Feb 16, 4:35 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis that uses 107 mm. Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter? RBW is a great institution, a wonderful collection of people, and has inspired this marvelous group. The RBW web-site, while generally informative, extremely interesting, highly recommended and overall very enjoyable reading, is *not* using best-of-breed content-maintenance technology or practices. :) For example... I think the web-site's statement on BB size may actually predate the *existence* of all the current RBW frame offerings *except* the Atlantis. And I know the Atlantis itself has changed a bunch over that time. Now, they *may* have gone to some trouble to make sure that every Atlantis variant (and every other frame design) complied with that statement on the web-site (I'm being silly!). But I wouldn't count on it. Definitely read the web-site with a grain of subject to change or have changed without notice when it comes to little tidbits of detail, however technical they are or important they might be in a given situation. If it really matters, ask, measure, and/or test. I of course am glad (or at least hope) they don't spend hours or even too many minutes worrying about this sort of thing. It means the web- site doesn't read like a technical manual. It means the bikes don't get held up in as many bureaucratic processes. It means they can have longer meaningful conversations on the phone and in e-mail about helping customers choose a frame, components, and/or accessories. Oh, and... just in case you missed it... a custom frameset is now $3,500. Not $3,000, as indicated on the Bicycle Models page (as of this moment, anyway). RBW, don't change a thing. Unless the change'll keep you from getting sued, fined, or imprisoned! Yours, Thomas Lynn Skean -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
+1 for Thomas observations. I think the BB question has been sorted out on this forum somewhere here there's a chart of models and sizes that may be more accurate than the guidance on the Riv site. Some issues seem to have too many combinations to say for sure what works what won't. Isn't trial error how some of us managed to develop parts collections? OTH, Paul's bike is nearly new really should be working properly with the build combo Riv installed. But hey, that's what we're here for, right? dougP On Feb 16, 1:43 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net wrote: On Feb 16, 4:35 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis that uses 107 mm. Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter? RBW is a great institution, a wonderful collection of people, and has inspired this marvelous group. The RBW web-site, while generally informative, extremely interesting, highly recommended and overall very enjoyable reading, is *not* using best-of-breed content-maintenance technology or practices. :) For example... I think the web-site's statement on BB size may actually predate the *existence* of all the current RBW frame offerings *except* the Atlantis. And I know the Atlantis itself has changed a bunch over that time. Now, they *may* have gone to some trouble to make sure that every Atlantis variant (and every other frame design) complied with that statement on the web-site (I'm being silly!). But I wouldn't count on it. Definitely read the web-site with a grain of subject to change or have changed without notice when it comes to little tidbits of detail, however technical they are or important they might be in a given situation. If it really matters, ask, measure, and/or test. I of course am glad (or at least hope) they don't spend hours or even too many minutes worrying about this sort of thing. It means the web- site doesn't read like a technical manual. It means the bikes don't get held up in as many bureaucratic processes. It means they can have longer meaningful conversations on the phone and in e-mail about helping customers choose a frame, components, and/or accessories. Oh, and... just in case you missed it... a custom frameset is now $3,500. Not $3,000, as indicated on the Bicycle Models page (as of this moment, anyway). RBW, don't change a thing. Unless the change'll keep you from getting sued, fined, or imprisoned! Yours, Thomas Lynn Skean -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Are the cogs on the Shimano freewheel *thicker* than those on the 9- speed cassette with which the chain was designed to work? If so, could the freewheel be reluctant to let go of the chain, causing chain tension changes that might lead to chain suck? FYI: I've had my issues. But never chain suck. Don't really know its details. But I know I've never had front shifting problems. 60cm Hillborne w/Sugino XD2 (, IRD FW, IRD Alpina-d, Wippermann 808 or SRAM PC830 chain, IRD 7spd FW, Shimano 8-spd bar-con shifters Yours, Thomas Lynn Skean On Feb 16, 8:45 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Much thanks to all your thought and effort! Chain line looks ok looking at the pics. Michael: I'm not sure if that law has been violated... this problem has been chronic. Gernot: I can't judge if its a lot or a little space, but the pics are here if you care to look! I've got calipers thanks, will get the cranks off if necessary but the chain like looks ok in the pics. What do you think? http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulatwork/sets/72157625941494045/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
On Feb 14, 11:59 pm, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Beeswax is rather sticky for lubing bike parts, no? I know it gummed up the springs on my former Speedplays. Why do you add beeswax? Hi Paul, Patrick raises a good point-- maybe try something other than the paraffin/wax mixture. Since chain suck is the result of the chain not wanting to leave the sprocket, you want the chain to fall away from the chainring teeth as easily as possible, so a lighter lubrication might be in order. I also recommend heavier chains like the KMC 8x, which is a *great* chain (advertised for 8-speed drivetrains, this will probably work well on your 7-speed-- hopefully better than the 9s chain you have) because I've basically never had chainsuck with them. Wippermans are also good chains. I bought an SRAM chain once, but was not impressed-- not only was it more expensive, but it didn't even have riveted pins. Also FWIW I use vegetable oil on my chains and it works surprisingly well. Anyway hope you get it figured out quickly. -Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Hey Paul, One more thing that just occured to me to check (you may have already done this) is that the rear derailer springs are working/keeping good tension on the chain. Dang, I didn't realize that Wippermans were that expensive over there. They're not that cheap here either... they're like $25, whereas you can get a KMC for about $15. Definitely reserve the purchase of a different chain as a 'last resort'. -Matt On Feb 15, 5:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
I too have had poor performance from Sram chains, lots of jumping and skipping. Wippermans Conex are consistently the best chains I have ever used. If youchange chains and the problem doesn't go away you wont have lost anything; you'll just have a chain in inventory. michael On Feb 15, 6:39 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Paul, One more thing that just occured to me to check (you may have already done this) is that the rear derailer springs are working/keeping good tension on the chain. Dang, I didn't realize that Wippermans were that expensive over there. They're not that cheap here either... they're like $25, whereas you can get a KMC for about $15. Definitely reserve the purchase of a different chain as a 'last resort'. -Matt On Feb 15, 5:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Paul: you might try paraffin without the beeswax: that's what I use; in fact, I use old ornamental candle ends -- paraffin, not beeswax -- donated by friends, so my chains smell like vanilla or cinnamon or lavender, at least briefly -- tho' I do add a dash of bitters or, rather, leftover 30 weight or transmission fluid or (most recently) the leftover from a spray can of silicone lubricant. I don't add enough to alter the dry and clean finish of the paraffin. At any rate, for a very dry and dusty climate, it seems to work, though I have to admit I use it as much for exterior cleanliness as for chain life. My beater Motobecane has a chain I've vowed not to clean during its natural life; I occasionally add a dry bottled lube and if the bike gets rained on I'll wash it with a hose, but I never even wipe it. I want to see how many miles I get out of it. All fixed gears, of course. On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:52 AM, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Paul: Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC 9 speed is narrower. I always buy ones marked 6/7/8 speed for my 8 speed. I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 get several. Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a chain. It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry, the whole place is paved over). You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd. Maybe climbing in the granny middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension? Hit a bump or something? Just a thought. If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here next time. That doesn't do you any good today but for future. If Kip Gernot have no problems you're the only 9 speed user, that could be a clue. dougP On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
Matt: Well, its a brand new RR XT derailer so not likely the spring is worn. I did turn in the spring tension screw some more but it made no difference though. Michael: Good to know. I'd like to try a wipperman for next year. Patrick: Hmm I could try that. I think the beeswax is for some element of water resistance. Honestly though I find it hard to believe that chain lubrication is the problem here. Doug: That's a great idea I will check with Kip and Gernot. On another 8 vs 9 speed note, I just saw that my front derailer is marked MIRAGE 9 SPEED. Could this be having an effect? Is this ok to use with an 8 speed chain ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
i used an 8spd chain on my bike with my 7spd freewheel and it made all kinds of noise in both the front and back and trimming was very difficult... i realized my front and rear derailer are both 9spd derailers i got off of ebay and so spaced a little tighter. i put a 9spd chain on and it works great now. an fyi, james -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB
I have the same size Hillborne (but earlier Taiwan version) with the same crank (Sugino XD-2), same chain (SRAM 9 speed), older generation but NOS low normal XT derailer (but different front derailer, though I can't see how that would matter), and have no issues with chain suck (okay, 2 or 3 instances in 1.5 yrs, probably with dirty chain). I also run a 9 sp Shimano cassette on a 9 sp Shimano hub, versus Paul's 7 sp Shimano freewheel on Phil hub, but can't see how that would matter. How about BB spindle length? It's a long shot, but if the spindle is too long, I could see that contributing. Gernot On Feb 16, 7:19 am, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Paul: Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC 9 speed is narrower. I always buy ones marked 6/7/8 speed for my 8 speed. I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 get several. Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a chain. It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry, the whole place is paved over). You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd. Maybe climbing in the granny middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension? Hit a bump or something? Just a thought. If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here next time. That doesn't do you any good today but for future. If Kip Gernot have no problems you're the only 9 speed user, that could be a clue. dougP On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh rawfoodcuis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all your replies. Seth: Just checked, its not the rails. Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio. It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more silent than when new. Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this time of year in Thailand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
