[RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[KenP]

Yep, been there too.  Usually an easy-out works if done carefully as 
mentioned in the other posts. You have to get that hole centered and 
deeper.  Usually works.  One more idea; drill the whole thing out bigger 
and put in a helicoil to replace the threads.  One more idea; take off the 
boss completely and there are strap-on bosses made for bikes that don't 
have any type of stops--a yucky fix though.  Riv used to sell them, you 
could give them a call.  

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:43:21 PM UTC-5 ryan.tre...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one of 
> my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on boss 
> (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a drill 
> extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ryan
>
> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Will Boericke]

Not sure what tools you have; my cordless drill has an impact-ish setting
that is good for this work as well.  Keep at it!

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 3:14 PM Minh  wrote:

> oof tough situation.  when you cut the slot and tried to unscrew, did you
> use something besides a screw driver?  like a wrench with a slotted
> socket?  that could give you more leverage.   if you can get a small hole,
> a torx driver could give you more grip, and same deal with leverage.  since
> you are unlikely to need this boss, i'd give it a little bit more effort
> but at some point i'd also stop and just cover it up and leave it alone.
>
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 3:02:44 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> A hair dryer might give you enough heat to make a difference.
>>
>> Thanks for the drill guide tip, John.  I'll definitely use that in the
>> future.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 2:08 PM JohnS  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Ryan,
>>>
>>> The problem with trying to drill out a hole and using a big enough
>>> easy-out bit to be effective is getting the hole centered. Easy concept,
>>> but hard to do in reality since the drill bit wants to wander from center
>>> until it grabs. Solution, create a guide for the drill bit so that it is
>>> centered.
>>>
>>> Details:
>>> 1. Sack up 6 or 8 M5 washer and slide them onto a M5 bolt.
>>> 2. Using blue tape, tape the washer stack to the shifter boss and remove
>>> bolt.
>>> 3. Use a wire size #3 drill bit to drill into the bolt just slightly,
>>> about 1/32 or 1/16 of an inch.
>>> 4. Remove washers and drill a suitable hole for an easy-out to be
>>> started, but not too big that the drill hits the bosses treads, still kind
>>> of tricky.
>>>
>>> The #3 drill bit is snug fit for the M5 washer. A 13/64 bit is loose, so
>>> I won't recommend that. I used this process recently to center a hole on a
>>> 1/2" steel rod so that I could tape it for a M5 bolt. It worked great in my
>>> situation since the rod isn't as hard as a bolt and I wasn't trying to use
>>> an easy-out. Also, I used a drill press (one of my favorite tools).
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 12:44:20 PM UTC-4 ryan.tre...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks all for your suggestions!  I really appreciate it.  I did work
 on this over the weekend, but unfortunately could not get it out.  At
 first, I tried the slotting method - using a Dremel tool to cut a small
 slot in bolt, which I successfully did.  I also added some lube and let it
 sit overnight.  When I went to unscrew it, it wouldn't budge though.  I
 think it's just torqued in there really tight.  I don't have a blow torch,
 and didn't want to make the situation worse by potentially damaging the
 tubes or paint with this method.  It's hard to see in the picture, but
 there really was absolutely nothing to grab onto, it was exactly flush with
 the boss.  I did try hammering it a bit to try to rotate it, but it still
 wouldn't move.  I might just try using some adhesive to glue on the stop on
 that side.  I don't ever plan on putting a shift lever there, so it'll
 probably be ok.  The biggest takeaway for me is to grease up the bolts and
 rotate them in and a out a few times, and to STOP screwing it in when I
 feel a lot of resistance. I am going to be much more careful whenever I
 tighten bolts from now on for sure!

 Ryan

 On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 12:26:18 PM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> Ryan -Oh yeah - been there, done that!Here's one more trick
> you can try that I've had success with. Start with lube as suggested 
> (maybe
> lay the frame on its side so gravity can promote penetration of the lube).
> Apply some "gentle heat" with something like a hair blow dryer. After the
> lube has had a chance to penetrate and you have it warmed it up use a 
> punch
> or similar tool (small drift or even a screw driver) and wedge the tip 
> into
> the dimple your drill bit formed (it looks like you may have one right on
> the edge of the sheared bolt) Hold the punch with a  firm grasp and begin
> tapping it with a small hammer. The punch should be angled as much as
> possible to direct the torque counterclockwise. Tap, tap tap - It will 
> take
> at least a few dozen strikes. You may want to mask off the surrounding 
> down
> tube with cardboard and  tape to protect it in case the tip of the punch
> slips.
>
> Let us know what works so we can all learn from your adventure. Happy
> wrenching!
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:34:37 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I did something similar with my 2020 Matthews: overtorqued a dry
>> screw holding a front lowrider to the fork leg boss, and snapping the 
>> head
>> off, leaving <1/8" of the shaft protruding. It was just barely enough to
>> grab securely with needle-nose vise 

[RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[lconley]

The other possibility is that if the bolt was stainless steel, it could 
have galled and again, penetrating oil will be unlikely to help.

Tools: I have a set of thread cleaning tools - these are for cleaning up 
existing threads, they look similar to taps and dies, but will not cut into 
/ remove the metal, thus retaining the strength of the metal. Hard to find 
in the smaller sizes, but the correct tool for renewing existing threads.

Laing

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 4:00:05 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> You hinted at how you got here later down the thread.  Can you describe 
> exactly how you got here?  The hint was you were screwing in a bolt into 
> your shifter boss and you felt a lot of resistance and you just kept 
> forcing it until the bolt broke.  
>
> 1. Seems pretty safe to guess you did not run a tap through the threads 
> first.  Right?
> 2. Was there a ton of resistance from the beginning?  -OR- did it thread 
> in easily, and then you hit the bottom of the hole and kept forcing it?
>
> Either way, the recommendations of "penetrating oil" seem a little 
> off-topic for this situation.  Penetrating oil is good for corrosion 
> situations.  This is metal on metal brute forcing something.  I think the 
> other takeaway should be that anybody who wants to pull together a build on 
> a frameset should probably have a tap handle and the three most common taps:
>
> 1. M5x0.8mm
> 2. M6x1.0mm
> 3. M10x1.0mm
>
> Doing those prep steps can avoid some major curse sessions...unless you 
> break off a tap!  That's heartbreaking.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 11:43:21 AM UTC-8 ryan.tre...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one 
>> of my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on 
>> boss (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a 
>> drill extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[George Schick]

1.  Bill sez, (...the recommendations of "penetrating oil" seem a little 
off-topic for this situation.  Penetrating oil is good for corrosion 
situations.  This is metal on metal brute forcing something)  Bingo!  
I've been in situations like this before, too, and have found "penetrating 
lubricant" to be next to useless.  You just can't work enough in between 
the jammed threads to make any difference.  Current case in point - I'm 
trying to get the drums off the rear brakes of my truck to inspect (I 
detect squealing from back there) and I can't budge them.  I've tried 
spraying PB Blast'r between the wheel studs and the outer surface of the 
drum - no dice.  Next step is going to be using a short piece of rebar I've 
filed a conical surface onto the end of, work it in between the rear edge 
of the drum and back plate, and bang the crap out of it with a sledge.

2.  In addition to the rest of the replies, if you do need to chase the 
threads be sure to use a light oil and go one turn in and back out a half 
turn for each inward turn to clear the tap or it may get stuck in there and 
break off.
On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 3:00:05 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> You hinted at how you got here later down the thread.  Can you describe 
> exactly how you got here?  The hint was you were screwing in a bolt into 
> your shifter boss and you felt a lot of resistance and you just kept 
> forcing it until the bolt broke.  
>
> 1. Seems pretty safe to guess you did not run a tap through the threads 
> first.  Right?
> 2. Was there a ton of resistance from the beginning?  -OR- did it thread 
> in easily, and then you hit the bottom of the hole and kept forcing it?
>
> Either way, the recommendations of "penetrating oil" seem a little 
> off-topic for this situation.  Penetrating oil is good for corrosion 
> situations.  This is metal on metal brute forcing something.  I think the 
> other takeaway should be that anybody who wants to pull together a build on 
> a frameset should probably have a tap handle and the three most common taps:
>
> 1. M5x0.8mm
> 2. M6x1.0mm
> 3. M10x1.0mm
>
> Doing those prep steps can avoid some major curse sessions...unless you 
> break off a tap!  That's heartbreaking.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 11:43:21 AM UTC-8 ryan.tre...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one 
>> of my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on 
>> boss (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a 
>> drill extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Bill Lindsay]

You hinted at how you got here later down the thread.  Can you describe 
exactly how you got here?  The hint was you were screwing in a bolt into 
your shifter boss and you felt a lot of resistance and you just kept 
forcing it until the bolt broke.  

1. Seems pretty safe to guess you did not run a tap through the threads 
first.  Right?
2. Was there a ton of resistance from the beginning?  -OR- did it thread in 
easily, and then you hit the bottom of the hole and kept forcing it?

Either way, the recommendations of "penetrating oil" seem a little 
off-topic for this situation.  Penetrating oil is good for corrosion 
situations.  This is metal on metal brute forcing something.  I think the 
other takeaway should be that anybody who wants to pull together a build on 
a frameset should probably have a tap handle and the three most common taps:

1. M5x0.8mm
2. M6x1.0mm
3. M10x1.0mm

Doing those prep steps can avoid some major curse sessions...unless you 
break off a tap!  That's heartbreaking.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 11:43:21 AM UTC-8 ryan.tre...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one of 
> my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on boss 
> (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a drill 
> extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ryan
>
> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Brian Forsee]

If you think the slot you've cut gives you enough bite you can get decent 
torque on a screwdriver/whatever you're using, it may be worth trying the 
lubricant again. Put the bike on its side so the oil will drain down into 
the threads, and use a penetrating oil like pb blaster/boeshield/wd40 if 
you're not already. Flood that thing and let it sit for awhile more.

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 2:14:41 PM UTC-5 Minh wrote:

> oof tough situation.  when you cut the slot and tried to unscrew, did you 
> use something besides a screw driver?  like a wrench with a slotted 
> socket?  that could give you more leverage.   if you can get a small hole, 
> a torx driver could give you more grip, and same deal with leverage.  since 
> you are unlikely to need this boss, i'd give it a little bit more effort 
> but at some point i'd also stop and just cover it up and leave it alone.  
>
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 3:02:44 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> A hair dryer might give you enough heat to make a difference. 
>>
>> Thanks for the drill guide tip, John.  I'll definitely use that in the 
>> future.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 2:08 PM JohnS  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Ryan,
>>>
>>> The problem with trying to drill out a hole and using a big enough 
>>> easy-out bit to be effective is getting the hole centered. Easy concept, 
>>> but hard to do in reality since the drill bit wants to wander from center 
>>> until it grabs. Solution, create a guide for the drill bit so that it is 
>>> centered. 
>>>
>>> Details:
>>> 1. Sack up 6 or 8 M5 washer and slide them onto a M5 bolt.
>>> 2. Using blue tape, tape the washer stack to the shifter boss and remove 
>>> bolt.
>>> 3. Use a wire size #3 drill bit to drill into the bolt just slightly, 
>>> about 1/32 or 1/16 of an inch.
>>> 4. Remove washers and drill a suitable hole for an easy-out to be 
>>> started, but not too big that the drill hits the bosses treads, still kind 
>>> of tricky.
>>>
>>> The #3 drill bit is snug fit for the M5 washer. A 13/64 bit is loose, so 
>>> I won't recommend that. I used this process recently to center a hole on a 
>>> 1/2" steel rod so that I could tape it for a M5 bolt. It worked great in my 
>>> situation since the rod isn't as hard as a bolt and I wasn't trying to use 
>>> an easy-out. Also, I used a drill press (one of my favorite tools).
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 12:44:20 PM UTC-4 ryan.tre...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks all for your suggestions!  I really appreciate it.  I did work 
 on this over the weekend, but unfortunately could not get it out.  At 
 first, I tried the slotting method - using a Dremel tool to cut a small 
 slot in bolt, which I successfully did.  I also added some lube and let it 
 sit overnight.  When I went to unscrew it, it wouldn't budge though.  I 
 think it's just torqued in there really tight.  I don't have a blow torch, 
 and didn't want to make the situation worse by potentially damaging the 
 tubes or paint with this method.  It's hard to see in the picture, but 
 there really was absolutely nothing to grab onto, it was exactly flush 
 with 
 the boss.  I did try hammering it a bit to try to rotate it, but it still 
 wouldn't move.  I might just try using some adhesive to glue on the stop 
 on 
 that side.  I don't ever plan on putting a shift lever there, so it'll 
 probably be ok.  The biggest takeaway for me is to grease up the bolts and 
 rotate them in and a out a few times, and to STOP screwing it in when I 
 feel a lot of resistance. I am going to be much more careful whenever I 
 tighten bolts from now on for sure!

 Ryan

 On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 12:26:18 PM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Ryan -Oh yeah - been there, done that!Here's one more trick 
> you can try that I've had success with. Start with lube as suggested 
> (maybe 
> lay the frame on its side so gravity can promote penetration of the 
> lube). 
> Apply some "gentle heat" with something like a hair blow dryer. After the 
> lube has had a chance to penetrate and you have it warmed it up use a 
> punch 
> or similar tool (small drift or even a screw driver) and wedge the tip 
> into 
> the dimple your drill bit formed (it looks like you may have one right on 
> the edge of the sheared bolt) Hold the punch with a  firm grasp and begin 
> tapping it with a small hammer. The punch should be angled as much as 
> possible to direct the torque counterclockwise. Tap, tap tap - It will 
> take 
> at least a few dozen strikes. You may want to mask off the surrounding 
> down 
> tube with cardboard and  tape to protect it in case the tip of the punch 
> slips. 
>
> Let us know what works so we can all learn from your adventure. Happy 
> wrenching!
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 

Re: [RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Minh]

oof tough situation.  when you cut the slot and tried to unscrew, did you 
use something besides a screw driver?  like a wrench with a slotted 
socket?  that could give you more leverage.   if you can get a small hole, 
a torx driver could give you more grip, and same deal with leverage.  since 
you are unlikely to need this boss, i'd give it a little bit more effort 
but at some point i'd also stop and just cover it up and leave it alone.  

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 3:02:44 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> A hair dryer might give you enough heat to make a difference. 
>
> Thanks for the drill guide tip, John.  I'll definitely use that in the 
> future.
>
> Will
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 2:08 PM JohnS  wrote:
>
>> Hello Ryan,
>>
>> The problem with trying to drill out a hole and using a big enough 
>> easy-out bit to be effective is getting the hole centered. Easy concept, 
>> but hard to do in reality since the drill bit wants to wander from center 
>> until it grabs. Solution, create a guide for the drill bit so that it is 
>> centered. 
>>
>> Details:
>> 1. Sack up 6 or 8 M5 washer and slide them onto a M5 bolt.
>> 2. Using blue tape, tape the washer stack to the shifter boss and remove 
>> bolt.
>> 3. Use a wire size #3 drill bit to drill into the bolt just slightly, 
>> about 1/32 or 1/16 of an inch.
>> 4. Remove washers and drill a suitable hole for an easy-out to be 
>> started, but not too big that the drill hits the bosses treads, still kind 
>> of tricky.
>>
>> The #3 drill bit is snug fit for the M5 washer. A 13/64 bit is loose, so 
>> I won't recommend that. I used this process recently to center a hole on a 
>> 1/2" steel rod so that I could tape it for a M5 bolt. It worked great in my 
>> situation since the rod isn't as hard as a bolt and I wasn't trying to use 
>> an easy-out. Also, I used a drill press (one of my favorite tools).
>>
>> Good luck,
>> John
>>
>> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 12:44:20 PM UTC-4 ryan.tre...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all for your suggestions!  I really appreciate it.  I did work on 
>>> this over the weekend, but unfortunately could not get it out.  At first, I 
>>> tried the slotting method - using a Dremel tool to cut a small slot in 
>>> bolt, which I successfully did.  I also added some lube and let it sit 
>>> overnight.  When I went to unscrew it, it wouldn't budge though.  I think 
>>> it's just torqued in there really tight.  I don't have a blow torch, and 
>>> didn't want to make the situation worse by potentially damaging the tubes 
>>> or paint with this method.  It's hard to see in the picture, but there 
>>> really was absolutely nothing to grab onto, it was exactly flush with the 
>>> boss.  I did try hammering it a bit to try to rotate it, but it still 
>>> wouldn't move.  I might just try using some adhesive to glue on the stop on 
>>> that side.  I don't ever plan on putting a shift lever there, so it'll 
>>> probably be ok.  The biggest takeaway for me is to grease up the bolts and 
>>> rotate them in and a out a few times, and to STOP screwing it in when I 
>>> feel a lot of resistance. I am going to be much more careful whenever I 
>>> tighten bolts from now on for sure!
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 12:26:18 PM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Ryan -Oh yeah - been there, done that!Here's one more trick you 
 can try that I've had success with. Start with lube as suggested (maybe 
 lay 
 the frame on its side so gravity can promote penetration of the lube). 
 Apply some "gentle heat" with something like a hair blow dryer. After the 
 lube has had a chance to penetrate and you have it warmed it up use a 
 punch 
 or similar tool (small drift or even a screw driver) and wedge the tip 
 into 
 the dimple your drill bit formed (it looks like you may have one right on 
 the edge of the sheared bolt) Hold the punch with a  firm grasp and begin 
 tapping it with a small hammer. The punch should be angled as much as 
 possible to direct the torque counterclockwise. Tap, tap tap - It will 
 take 
 at least a few dozen strikes. You may want to mask off the surrounding 
 down 
 tube with cardboard and  tape to protect it in case the tip of the punch 
 slips. 

 Let us know what works so we can all learn from your adventure. Happy 
 wrenching!

 On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:34:37 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I did something similar with my 2020 Matthews: overtorqued a dry screw 
> holding a front lowrider to the fork leg boss, and snapping the head off, 
> leaving <1/8" of the shaft protruding. It was just barely enough to grab 
> securely with needle-nose vise grips and with liberal applications of 
> spray 
> lubricant, patience, prayer, and 30 minutes of tiny back-and-forth 
> rotation 
> I got it out without damage to anything.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 

Re: [RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Will Boericke]

A hair dryer might give you enough heat to make a difference.

Thanks for the drill guide tip, John.  I'll definitely use that in the
future.

Will

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 2:08 PM JohnS  wrote:

> Hello Ryan,
>
> The problem with trying to drill out a hole and using a big enough
> easy-out bit to be effective is getting the hole centered. Easy concept,
> but hard to do in reality since the drill bit wants to wander from center
> until it grabs. Solution, create a guide for the drill bit so that it is
> centered.
>
> Details:
> 1. Sack up 6 or 8 M5 washer and slide them onto a M5 bolt.
> 2. Using blue tape, tape the washer stack to the shifter boss and remove
> bolt.
> 3. Use a wire size #3 drill bit to drill into the bolt just slightly,
> about 1/32 or 1/16 of an inch.
> 4. Remove washers and drill a suitable hole for an easy-out to be started,
> but not too big that the drill hits the bosses treads, still kind of tricky.
>
> The #3 drill bit is snug fit for the M5 washer. A 13/64 bit is loose, so I
> won't recommend that. I used this process recently to center a hole on a
> 1/2" steel rod so that I could tape it for a M5 bolt. It worked great in my
> situation since the rod isn't as hard as a bolt and I wasn't trying to use
> an easy-out. Also, I used a drill press (one of my favorite tools).
>
> Good luck,
> John
>
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 12:44:20 PM UTC-4 ryan.tre...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks all for your suggestions!  I really appreciate it.  I did work on
>> this over the weekend, but unfortunately could not get it out.  At first, I
>> tried the slotting method - using a Dremel tool to cut a small slot in
>> bolt, which I successfully did.  I also added some lube and let it sit
>> overnight.  When I went to unscrew it, it wouldn't budge though.  I think
>> it's just torqued in there really tight.  I don't have a blow torch, and
>> didn't want to make the situation worse by potentially damaging the tubes
>> or paint with this method.  It's hard to see in the picture, but there
>> really was absolutely nothing to grab onto, it was exactly flush with the
>> boss.  I did try hammering it a bit to try to rotate it, but it still
>> wouldn't move.  I might just try using some adhesive to glue on the stop on
>> that side.  I don't ever plan on putting a shift lever there, so it'll
>> probably be ok.  The biggest takeaway for me is to grease up the bolts and
>> rotate them in and a out a few times, and to STOP screwing it in when I
>> feel a lot of resistance. I am going to be much more careful whenever I
>> tighten bolts from now on for sure!
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 12:26:18 PM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ryan -Oh yeah - been there, done that!Here's one more trick you
>>> can try that I've had success with. Start with lube as suggested (maybe lay
>>> the frame on its side so gravity can promote penetration of the lube).
>>> Apply some "gentle heat" with something like a hair blow dryer. After the
>>> lube has had a chance to penetrate and you have it warmed it up use a punch
>>> or similar tool (small drift or even a screw driver) and wedge the tip into
>>> the dimple your drill bit formed (it looks like you may have one right on
>>> the edge of the sheared bolt) Hold the punch with a  firm grasp and begin
>>> tapping it with a small hammer. The punch should be angled as much as
>>> possible to direct the torque counterclockwise. Tap, tap tap - It will take
>>> at least a few dozen strikes. You may want to mask off the surrounding down
>>> tube with cardboard and  tape to protect it in case the tip of the punch
>>> slips.
>>>
>>> Let us know what works so we can all learn from your adventure. Happy
>>> wrenching!
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:34:37 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 I did something similar with my 2020 Matthews: overtorqued a dry screw
 holding a front lowrider to the fork leg boss, and snapping the head off,
 leaving <1/8" of the shaft protruding. It was just barely enough to grab
 securely with needle-nose vise grips and with liberal applications of spray
 lubricant, patience, prayer, and 30 minutes of tiny back-and-forth rotation
 I got it out without damage to anything.

 On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:57 PM Brian Forsee 
 wrote:

> Ryan,
>
> If you have a (very) small rotatory tool/dremel you can cut a slot in
> there and then use a flat head screw driver to back the bolt out. If its
> not quite *completely* flush you can try grabbing it with some vice
> grips too.
>
> Good luck! If you cut a little bit of a slot into the boss itself
> that's probably no big deal, although depending how deep it gets it may
> necessitate re-tapping the threads in there.
>
>
> Brian
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:43:21 PM UTC-6 ryan.tre...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament 

Re: [RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[JohnS]

Hello Ryan,

The problem with trying to drill out a hole and using a big enough easy-out 
bit to be effective is getting the hole centered. Easy concept, but hard to 
do in reality since the drill bit wants to wander from center until it 
grabs. Solution, create a guide for the drill bit so that it is centered. 

Details:
1. Sack up 6 or 8 M5 washer and slide them onto a M5 bolt.
2. Using blue tape, tape the washer stack to the shifter boss and remove 
bolt.
3. Use a wire size #3 drill bit to drill into the bolt just slightly, about 
1/32 or 1/16 of an inch.
4. Remove washers and drill a suitable hole for an easy-out to be started, 
but not too big that the drill hits the bosses treads, still kind of tricky.

The #3 drill bit is snug fit for the M5 washer. A 13/64 bit is loose, so I 
won't recommend that. I used this process recently to center a hole on a 
1/2" steel rod so that I could tape it for a M5 bolt. It worked great in my 
situation since the rod isn't as hard as a bolt and I wasn't trying to use 
an easy-out. Also, I used a drill press (one of my favorite tools).

Good luck,
John

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 12:44:20 PM UTC-4 ryan.tre...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks all for your suggestions!  I really appreciate it.  I did work on 
> this over the weekend, but unfortunately could not get it out.  At first, I 
> tried the slotting method - using a Dremel tool to cut a small slot in 
> bolt, which I successfully did.  I also added some lube and let it sit 
> overnight.  When I went to unscrew it, it wouldn't budge though.  I think 
> it's just torqued in there really tight.  I don't have a blow torch, and 
> didn't want to make the situation worse by potentially damaging the tubes 
> or paint with this method.  It's hard to see in the picture, but there 
> really was absolutely nothing to grab onto, it was exactly flush with the 
> boss.  I did try hammering it a bit to try to rotate it, but it still 
> wouldn't move.  I might just try using some adhesive to glue on the stop on 
> that side.  I don't ever plan on putting a shift lever there, so it'll 
> probably be ok.  The biggest takeaway for me is to grease up the bolts and 
> rotate them in and a out a few times, and to STOP screwing it in when I 
> feel a lot of resistance. I am going to be much more careful whenever I 
> tighten bolts from now on for sure!
>
> Ryan
>
> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 12:26:18 PM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Ryan -Oh yeah - been there, done that!Here's one more trick you 
>> can try that I've had success with. Start with lube as suggested (maybe lay 
>> the frame on its side so gravity can promote penetration of the lube). 
>> Apply some "gentle heat" with something like a hair blow dryer. After the 
>> lube has had a chance to penetrate and you have it warmed it up use a punch 
>> or similar tool (small drift or even a screw driver) and wedge the tip into 
>> the dimple your drill bit formed (it looks like you may have one right on 
>> the edge of the sheared bolt) Hold the punch with a  firm grasp and begin 
>> tapping it with a small hammer. The punch should be angled as much as 
>> possible to direct the torque counterclockwise. Tap, tap tap - It will take 
>> at least a few dozen strikes. You may want to mask off the surrounding down 
>> tube with cardboard and  tape to protect it in case the tip of the punch 
>> slips. 
>>
>> Let us know what works so we can all learn from your adventure. Happy 
>> wrenching!
>>
>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:34:37 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I did something similar with my 2020 Matthews: overtorqued a dry screw 
>>> holding a front lowrider to the fork leg boss, and snapping the head off, 
>>> leaving <1/8" of the shaft protruding. It was just barely enough to grab 
>>> securely with needle-nose vise grips and with liberal applications of spray 
>>> lubricant, patience, prayer, and 30 minutes of tiny back-and-forth rotation 
>>> I got it out without damage to anything.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:57 PM Brian Forsee  wrote:
>>>
 Ryan,

 If you have a (very) small rotatory tool/dremel you can cut a slot in 
 there and then use a flat head screw driver to back the bolt out. If its 
 not quite *completely* flush you can try grabbing it with some vice 
 grips too.

 Good luck! If you cut a little bit of a slot into the boss itself 
 that's probably no big deal, although depending how deep it gets it may 
 necessitate re-tapping the threads in there.


 Brian

 On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:43:21 PM UTC-6 ryan.tre...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with 
> one of my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the 
> brazed 
> on boss (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried 
> using 
> a drill extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>
> Thanks!
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[R Olson]

Thanks all for your suggestions!  I really appreciate it.  I did work on 
this over the weekend, but unfortunately could not get it out.  At first, I 
tried the slotting method - using a Dremel tool to cut a small slot in 
bolt, which I successfully did.  I also added some lube and let it sit 
overnight.  When I went to unscrew it, it wouldn't budge though.  I think 
it's just torqued in there really tight.  I don't have a blow torch, and 
didn't want to make the situation worse by potentially damaging the tubes 
or paint with this method.  It's hard to see in the picture, but there 
really was absolutely nothing to grab onto, it was exactly flush with the 
boss.  I did try hammering it a bit to try to rotate it, but it still 
wouldn't move.  I might just try using some adhesive to glue on the stop on 
that side.  I don't ever plan on putting a shift lever there, so it'll 
probably be ok.  The biggest takeaway for me is to grease up the bolts and 
rotate them in and a out a few times, and to STOP screwing it in when I 
feel a lot of resistance. I am going to be much more careful whenever I 
tighten bolts from now on for sure!

Ryan

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 12:26:18 PM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ryan -Oh yeah - been there, done that!Here's one more trick you 
> can try that I've had success with. Start with lube as suggested (maybe lay 
> the frame on its side so gravity can promote penetration of the lube). 
> Apply some "gentle heat" with something like a hair blow dryer. After the 
> lube has had a chance to penetrate and you have it warmed it up use a punch 
> or similar tool (small drift or even a screw driver) and wedge the tip into 
> the dimple your drill bit formed (it looks like you may have one right on 
> the edge of the sheared bolt) Hold the punch with a  firm grasp and begin 
> tapping it with a small hammer. The punch should be angled as much as 
> possible to direct the torque counterclockwise. Tap, tap tap - It will take 
> at least a few dozen strikes. You may want to mask off the surrounding down 
> tube with cardboard and  tape to protect it in case the tip of the punch 
> slips. 
>
> Let us know what works so we can all learn from your adventure. Happy 
> wrenching!
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:34:37 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I did something similar with my 2020 Matthews: overtorqued a dry screw 
>> holding a front lowrider to the fork leg boss, and snapping the head off, 
>> leaving <1/8" of the shaft protruding. It was just barely enough to grab 
>> securely with needle-nose vise grips and with liberal applications of spray 
>> lubricant, patience, prayer, and 30 minutes of tiny back-and-forth rotation 
>> I got it out without damage to anything.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:57 PM Brian Forsee  wrote:
>>
>>> Ryan,
>>>
>>> If you have a (very) small rotatory tool/dremel you can cut a slot in 
>>> there and then use a flat head screw driver to back the bolt out. If its 
>>> not quite *completely* flush you can try grabbing it with some vice 
>>> grips too.
>>>
>>> Good luck! If you cut a little bit of a slot into the boss itself that's 
>>> probably no big deal, although depending how deep it gets it may 
>>> necessitate re-tapping the threads in there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:43:21 PM UTC-6 ryan.tre...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one 
 of my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on 
 boss (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a 
 drill extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 

 Thanks!

 Ryan

 [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]

>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/74d6da74-7f70-4c24-892e-018fc9a33ba6n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Steve]

Ryan -Oh yeah - been there, done that!Here's one more trick you can 
try that I've had success with. Start with lube as suggested (maybe lay the 
frame on its side so gravity can promote penetration of the lube). Apply 
some "gentle heat" with something like a hair blow dryer. After the lube 
has had a chance to penetrate and you have it warmed it up use a punch or 
similar tool (small drift or even a screw driver) and wedge the tip into 
the dimple your drill bit formed (it looks like you may have one right on 
the edge of the sheared bolt) Hold the punch with a  firm grasp and begin 
tapping it with a small hammer. The punch should be angled as much as 
possible to direct the torque counterclockwise. Tap, tap tap - It will take 
at least a few dozen strikes. You may want to mask off the surrounding down 
tube with cardboard and  tape to protect it in case the tip of the punch 
slips. 

Let us know what works so we can all learn from your adventure. Happy 
wrenching!

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:34:37 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I did something similar with my 2020 Matthews: overtorqued a dry screw 
> holding a front lowrider to the fork leg boss, and snapping the head off, 
> leaving <1/8" of the shaft protruding. It was just barely enough to grab 
> securely with needle-nose vise grips and with liberal applications of spray 
> lubricant, patience, prayer, and 30 minutes of tiny back-and-forth rotation 
> I got it out without damage to anything.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:57 PM Brian Forsee  wrote:
>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> If you have a (very) small rotatory tool/dremel you can cut a slot in 
>> there and then use a flat head screw driver to back the bolt out. If its 
>> not quite *completely* flush you can try grabbing it with some vice 
>> grips too.
>>
>> Good luck! If you cut a little bit of a slot into the boss itself that's 
>> probably no big deal, although depending how deep it gets it may 
>> necessitate re-tapping the threads in there.
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:43:21 PM UTC-6 ryan.tre...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one 
>>> of my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on 
>>> boss (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a 
>>> drill extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/74d6da74-7f70-4c24-892e-018fc9a33ba6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Patrick Moore]

I did something similar with my 2020 Matthews: overtorqued a dry screw
holding a front lowrider to the fork leg boss, and snapping the head off,
leaving <1/8" of the shaft protruding. It was just barely enough to grab
securely with needle-nose vise grips and with liberal applications of spray
lubricant, patience, prayer, and 30 minutes of tiny back-and-forth rotation
I got it out without damage to anything.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:57 PM Brian Forsee  wrote:

> Ryan,
>
> If you have a (very) small rotatory tool/dremel you can cut a slot in
> there and then use a flat head screw driver to back the bolt out. If its
> not quite *completely* flush you can try grabbing it with some vice grips
> too.
>
> Good luck! If you cut a little bit of a slot into the boss itself that's
> probably no big deal, although depending how deep it gets it may
> necessitate re-tapping the threads in there.
>
>
> Brian
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:43:21 PM UTC-6 ryan.tre...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one
>> of my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on
>> boss (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a
>> drill extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[lconley]

Use some penetrating oil on the threads (PB Blaster, etc.). Get some left 
handed drill bits and drill larger holes, preferably in the center of the 
sheared off bolt. It may be that the left handed drill bit will grab and 
extract the sheared off bolt all by itself. If not, the more of the sheared 
off bolt that you can remove with the drill, the better (the more centered 
you are, the more of the sheared off bolt you can remove) as it weakens the 
bolt. You may be able to use Dremel tool and to created a more centered 
starter hole before you start drilling. Stop short of removing any of the 
threads in the boss itself. Last resort is to use an EZ-out that is 
basically a left hand threaded hardened tapered tap that is designed to 
grab the sheared off bolt. The bigger the hole, the bigger of an EZ-out 
that you can use (bigger = stronger). DO NOT snap the EZ-out off in the 
sheared off bolt - err on the side of caution here, the EZ-out is very 
tough steel and hard to drill through. 
Not for the faint-of-heart, but you can also cut a slot through the threads 
of the boss and bolt on one of the flats of the boss. This will weaken the 
boss's grip on the bolt. if this works, you can repair with JB Weld, a tap, 
and a file.
Heat is another option, but I assume you like your paint.

If all else fails - -> Single Speed!

Laing

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:43:21 PM UTC-5 ryan.tre...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one of 
> my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on boss 
> (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a drill 
> extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ryan
>
> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[R Olson]

Lol, glad to hear that these things happen to other people too!  Thanks so 
much for your ideas Brian and Will!  I like the slot idea.  I do have a 
dremmel tool, so I might give that a shot.

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:04:55 PM UTC-7 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I hate these situations and find myself there more than I'd like.  I have 
> never had a whole lot of success with EZouts or the like.  It looks like 
> you have a pilot hole there; I'd be inclined to drill a bigger one and 
> hammer a torx in, maybe with some duct tape to ensure tight fit.  Then 
> unscrew.
>
> Or make a slot with the dremel and use a flat head.  You probably only get 
> to do one of these things though, as you'll run out of room.
>
> Will
>
>
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:57:48 PM UTC-5 bmfo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> If you have a (very) small rotatory tool/dremel you can cut a slot in 
>> there and then use a flat head screw driver to back the bolt out. If its 
>> not quite *completely* flush you can try grabbing it with some vice 
>> grips too.
>>
>> Good luck! If you cut a little bit of a slot into the boss itself that's 
>> probably no big deal, although depending how deep it gets it may 
>> necessitate re-tapping the threads in there.
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:43:21 PM UTC-6 ryan.tre...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one 
>>> of my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on 
>>> boss (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a 
>>> drill extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Will Boericke]

I hate these situations and find myself there more than I'd like.  I have 
never had a whole lot of success with EZouts or the like.  It looks like 
you have a pilot hole there; I'd be inclined to drill a bigger one and 
hammer a torx in, maybe with some duct tape to ensure tight fit.  Then 
unscrew.

Or make a slot with the dremel and use a flat head.  You probably only get 
to do one of these things though, as you'll run out of room.

Will



On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:57:48 PM UTC-5 bmfo...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ryan,
>
> If you have a (very) small rotatory tool/dremel you can cut a slot in 
> there and then use a flat head screw driver to back the bolt out. If its 
> not quite *completely* flush you can try grabbing it with some vice grips 
> too.
>
> Good luck! If you cut a little bit of a slot into the boss itself that's 
> probably no big deal, although depending how deep it gets it may 
> necessitate re-tapping the threads in there.
>
>
> Brian
>
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:43:21 PM UTC-6 ryan.tre...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one 
>> of my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on 
>> boss (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a 
>> drill extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Downtube bosses predicament

[Brian Forsee]

Ryan,

If you have a (very) small rotatory tool/dremel you can cut a slot in there 
and then use a flat head screw driver to back the bolt out. If its not 
quite *completely* flush you can try grabbing it with some vice grips too.

Good luck! If you cut a little bit of a slot into the boss itself that's 
probably no big deal, although depending how deep it gets it may 
necessitate re-tapping the threads in there.


Brian

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 1:43:21 PM UTC-6 ryan.tre...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello everyone, I've gotten myself into a bit of a predicament with one of 
> my downtube bosses; I've sheared off the bolt flush with the brazed on boss 
> (see pic below).  Any ideas on how to extract it?  I've tried using a drill 
> extractor bit with my drill, but didn't work. 
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ryan
>
> [image: 3DE5D487-0675-43CD-85A8-74193FE2964C.jpg]
>

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