Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Tim Gavin]

Although Bill makes sensible suggestions (belt and suspenders), I don't
predict the second calamity happening with a Nitto M12.

The lower mounts of the M12 end in thick horizontal plates that slide over
your brake post (not likely to pivot) and the upper mount of the M12 is a
solid steel bolt that goes into the brake hole on your fork (not very
fragile).

I really like the M12, and I feel that it should be more sturdy and
load-capable than the other Nitto mini front racks, since it has no
moveable parts.  However, I've never loaded my M12 very heavily nor mounted
a basket.  So far, mine has only held a Small Trunksack with a load of
tools and sundries.  And I have heard of M12 failures on other forums, but
I've never seen one to determine how/where the rack broke.


Back to the thread topic (baskets on mini racks), I had a Mark's rack /
small Wald basket combo on my Rivendell Road/650b (along with moustache
bars), and I definitely overloaded it a couple times.  I carried several
beers (12 glass bottles, 16 pint cans) and also overloaded it with camping
stuff.  The basket never bent and the Mark's rack was secure.  But, I
didn't like how the bike handled with a loaded basket (wheel flop).

Also, I didn't like the moustache bars for long touring days (can't get
low/forward out of the wind).  I actually traded the moustache bars, dirt
drop stem, and brake levers toward a rando bag from David Banzer (Treetop
designs).

Now, I have that Treetop rando bag on my Mark's rack (with long stays to
the dropout eyelets), and the handling is a bit better.  There is still
noticeable wheel flop, but I think this setup is more secure.  Running the
stays to the dropouts removed any side sway from the p-clamps, and the
rando bag is attached in three places (VO decaleur, tombstone strap, and
bottom strap).
Plus, the rando bag is very easy to use.  Now I know why that design is so
favored by brevet riders.

Eventually, I'd like to try the rando bag on a low trail fork, but I
haven't yet.

Cheers,
Tim

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> There are at least two reasons to add a strap.  One is for load support.
> I think Grant and Keven have both been fans of this.  If you imagine an
> arbitrarily heavy load in a basket you imagine the basket and rack bending
> down and away from the handlebars.  Run an Irish strap from the front edge
> of the basket to the bars and pull it tight.  However tight you pulled it,
> that's the quantity of force you are unloading from the rack.  It couldn't
> hurt.
>
> The second reason is catastrophe prevention.  Riv has seen a few different
> events where the rack has worked loose, pivoted forward into the tire, and
> caused the front wheel to lock up, throwing the rider down-on-ground,
> headfirst and fast.  So, run an Irish strap to the rack that will limit
> it's ability to pivot forward if it becomes detached up top.  For me,
> that's through the tombstone.  It couldn't hurt.
>
> In all cases try not to do dumb stuff.
>
> On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 12:56:18 PM UTC-7, David Banzer wrote:
>>
>> With the M12, I'd stick to the smaller basket, and even with that use
>> straps to handlebar for full loads.
>> David
>> Chicago
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 1:58:40 PM UTC-5, Minh wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all, thanks for the input, pretty much what i figured (mostly
>>> intuition, common sense).  i do have a platrack in the mix--and i never
>>> thought of using the top without the struts, may try that.  i should have
>>> stated that my main question is around the canti-stud mount M12 (which is
>>> not platrack compatible, otherwise i'd just do that).  anyone want to
>>> change their answer with this in mind?
>>>
>>> as far as the weight 'limits' i would be really surprised if people
>>> stuck to these as they are quite low (4.4lbs for the mark's/mini front?),
>>> i'm sure that i exceed this everytime i take it out.   on my platrack
>>> equiped rack i've done a car battery, a watermelon, but most times it's
>>> just too much groceries.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 9:26:54 AM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:

 And make sure you know the weight limit of your rack.
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Bill Lindsay]

There are at least two reasons to add a strap.  One is for load support.  I 
think Grant and Keven have both been fans of this.  If you imagine an 
arbitrarily heavy load in a basket you imagine the basket and rack bending 
down and away from the handlebars.  Run an Irish strap from the front edge 
of the basket to the bars and pull it tight.  However tight you pulled it, 
that's the quantity of force you are unloading from the rack.  It couldn't 
hurt.  

The second reason is catastrophe prevention.  Riv has seen a few different 
events where the rack has worked loose, pivoted forward into the tire, and 
caused the front wheel to lock up, throwing the rider down-on-ground, 
headfirst and fast.  So, run an Irish strap to the rack that will limit 
it's ability to pivot forward if it becomes detached up top.  For me, 
that's through the tombstone.  It couldn't hurt.  

In all cases try not to do dumb stuff.  

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 12:56:18 PM UTC-7, David Banzer wrote:
>
> With the M12, I'd stick to the smaller basket, and even with that use 
> straps to handlebar for full loads. 
> David
> Chicago
>
> On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 1:58:40 PM UTC-5, Minh wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, thanks for the input, pretty much what i figured (mostly 
>> intuition, common sense).  i do have a platrack in the mix--and i never 
>> thought of using the top without the struts, may try that.  i should have 
>> stated that my main question is around the canti-stud mount M12 (which is 
>> not platrack compatible, otherwise i'd just do that).  anyone want to 
>> change their answer with this in mind?
>>
>> as far as the weight 'limits' i would be really surprised if people stuck 
>> to these as they are quite low (4.4lbs for the mark's/mini front?), i'm 
>> sure that i exceed this everytime i take it out.   on my platrack equiped 
>> rack i've done a car battery, a watermelon, but most times it's just too 
>> much groceries.
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 9:26:54 AM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>>>
>>> And make sure you know the weight limit of your rack. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[David Banzer]

With the M12, I'd stick to the smaller basket, and even with that use 
straps to handlebar for full loads. 
David
Chicago

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 1:58:40 PM UTC-5, Minh wrote:
>
> Hi all, thanks for the input, pretty much what i figured (mostly 
> intuition, common sense).  i do have a platrack in the mix--and i never 
> thought of using the top without the struts, may try that.  i should have 
> stated that my main question is around the canti-stud mount M12 (which is 
> not platrack compatible, otherwise i'd just do that).  anyone want to 
> change their answer with this in mind?
>
> as far as the weight 'limits' i would be really surprised if people stuck 
> to these as they are quite low (4.4lbs for the mark's/mini front?), i'm 
> sure that i exceed this everytime i take it out.   on my platrack equiped 
> rack i've done a car battery, a watermelon, but most times it's just too 
> much groceries.
>
> On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 9:26:54 AM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>>
>> And make sure you know the weight limit of your rack. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Minh]

Hi all, thanks for the input, pretty much what i figured (mostly intuition, 
common sense).  i do have a platrack in the mix--and i never thought of 
using the top without the struts, may try that.  i should have stated that 
my main question is around the canti-stud mount M12 (which is not platrack 
compatible, otherwise i'd just do that).  anyone want to change their 
answer with this in mind?

as far as the weight 'limits' i would be really surprised if people stuck 
to these as they are quite low (4.4lbs for the mark's/mini front?), i'm 
sure that i exceed this everytime i take it out.   on my platrack equiped 
rack i've done a car battery, a watermelon, but most times it's just too 
much groceries.

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 9:26:54 AM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> And make sure you know the weight limit of your rack. 

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Lungimsam]

And make sure you know the weight limit of your rack. 

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[ant ritchey]

what riv calls the big wald plus marks or mini - fine from my experience.

if you're gonna really push it i highly recommend using compression straps 
or bungees or whatever to triangulate, securing basket to bars.

although this may not be ideal for drop bar use.  works incredibly well on 
albatross.

may sound like a no brainer, but!  make sure your mounting bolts are kept 
tight!

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 11:24:38 AM UTC-7, Minh wrote:
>
> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>
> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>
> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
> use-cases
>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Avery Wilson]

Picture for reference:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGpqSWXTfyF/

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Avery Wilson]

I tried this and wasn't really comfortable with the flex, but that's a matter 
of personal opinion. I now use a Surly front rack with my large Wald, and it's 
perfect. The outer rails of the platform on the surly rack line up perfectly 
with the thicker wires of the Wald 139. Fortuitous. :) 

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Brad]

On my Quickbeam, I use a large wald basket on a Nitto Mini (32F). I trimmed 
the rack down (clip off the top rim and fold the vertical pieces down) so 
that it cleared my handlebars. I use a platrack like Leslie, but I don't 
use the supports. Even the platform makes a big difference in how stiff the 
basket is. I found the basket/rack combo to be a little bouncy without the 
platrack.  I put a LOT of crap in the rack for short trips from the grocery 
store and haven't had any problems, with either handling or anything 
breaking. If I was worried, I'd carry a strap to put some of the load on my 
handlebars, like Grant has suggested on the Riv site (somewhere).

Have said all that, I bought a Haulin Colin rack for my new bike and it's 
REALLY solid with a basket.

Brad P.
Queens



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:24:38 PM UTC-4, Minh wrote:
>
> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>
> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>
> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
> use-cases
>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Jack Barnes]

I used a large Wald on a Mark's Rack for awhile, secured w/ loads of 
zipties. I had the same concerns initially, but it worked fine for moderate 
loads. 

I used the Lindsay method for modifying the Wald basket, which makes the 
basket a bit shallower, which means you probably won't overload it.



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 1:37:44 PM UTC-7, Leslie wrote:
>
> FWIW, I use a Platrack on top of my rack, to which the basket is then 
> attached, giving a better platform.
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/7729133174/in/album-72157623199721925/
>  
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/22755349636/in/album-72157623199721925/
>  
>
> I would suggest locating a Platrack...
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:24:38 PM UTC-4, Minh wrote:
>>
>> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>>
>> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
>> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
>> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>>
>> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
>> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
>> use-cases
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Leslie]

FWIW, I use a Platrack on top of my rack, to which the basket is then 
attached, giving a better platform.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/7729133174/in/album-72157623199721925/
 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/22755349636/in/album-72157623199721925/
 


I would suggest locating a Platrack...


On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:24:38 PM UTC-4, Minh wrote:
>
> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>
> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>
> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
> use-cases
>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Bill Lindsay]

It is my opinion that an arbitrarily small support rack for a really large 
Wald basket will be fine.  The failure mode you might experience if you 
load the basket too much will be sag.  The unsupported parts of the basket 
will bend and droop.  This is why some folks recommend a real porteur style 
rack because it supports the basket closer to the perimeter, mitigating the 
risk of droop.  Even if you do bend your basket, that's not a catastrophic 
failure mode (thank you steel).  If you ask basket beaters like Manny, it's 
not even a failure.  It's character!

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 11:24:38 AM UTC-7, Minh wrote:
>
> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>
> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>
> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
> use-cases
>

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