Re: [RBW] Socketed Seat Lug on a Hunqapillar
I don’t think it would be any stronger but I’m not sure how much that would matter. When Grant showed me the 3D printed prototype, I thought it was a stroke of genius. If you consider where forces are being applied to a bike frame, that’s the one of the few joints where the compression force is going straight into the joint (dropout and top of bottom bracket, too). With the exception of some minor lateral forces, Riv figured out how to get a multitude of seatstay angles out of one casting. Brilliant! Higher volume = lower cost. I just always wondered if they needed a similar joint at the dropout or if that angle stayed consistent. John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Socketed Seat Lug on a Hunqapillar
Only asking this because I'm naturally curious about and interested in such things - not such use I have any actual experience: A fillet joint wouldn't really be the alternative here, would it? I thought the alternative was the "spoons" type connection, where a shaped piece is socketed into the top of the stay, and then that piece is brazed to the side of the seat tube/top tube cluster. And I thought that the brass (or silver?) brazing material provided ALL of the strength in that type of connection, where the seat stay is basically in compression. Grant once made a comment about "understanding shear forces" in discussing the new ball sockets so I thought that, in addition to streamlining construction techniques, he was trying to eliminate the shear forces that would otherwise occur through the brazing filler material. Wouldn't a fillet joint be more accurate in a case where the stays butt into the back of the seat tube? Mountain bikes usually have this, but then they bend outward to allow for more tire clearance. My old MB-1 has this condition, even where the rest of the bike is lugged. I don't think I've ever seen a Rivendell use that detail though. I personally think the original Clem Smith Jr. sockets (originally intended for the "tall bike" project) are by far the nicest connection looking ever. But there's no way to adjust the angle for different size frames obviously, without having multiple castings. Maybe now that Riv is moving toward proportional chainstay lengths it could work? On Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 5:25:13 AM UTC-6, Peter White wrote: > > It's easier to get a fillet wrong. I got one wrong when I was building > frames 20 years ago and it cracked. If you get the fillet right it can be > lighter and more attractive. But if I were designing a frame to be > inexpensive to make and strong, I'd forget about using fillets. > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:43 PM Stephen W. > wrote: > >> I'm not a frame builder. But I have a question for those that certainly >> know more about bicycles/frames/lugs. Is the new socketed lug as strong, >> perhaps stronger, than brazing the seat stays to the outside of the lug? >> Just wondering. >> >> I've attached some pics, I think. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Stephen >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > Peter White > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Socketed Seat Lug on a Hunqapillar
I would think that the socketed seat cluster would be stronger and heavier. There is quite a bit more surface area for the brass/silver to adhere to, in the sockets and on the ball. Clayton #DirtDanceDesigns On Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 4:25:13 AM UTC-7, Peter White wrote: > > It's easier to get a fillet wrong. I got one wrong when I was building > frames 20 years ago and it cracked. If you get the fillet right it can be > lighter and more attractive. But if I were designing a frame to be > inexpensive to make and strong, I'd forget about using fillets. > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:43 PM Stephen W. > wrote: > >> I'm not a frame builder. But I have a question for those that certainly >> know more about bicycles/frames/lugs. Is the new socketed lug as strong, >> perhaps stronger, than brazing the seat stays to the outside of the lug? >> Just wondering. >> >> I've attached some pics, I think. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Stephen >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > Peter White > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Socketed Seat Lug on a Hunqapillar
I would argue the sockets make cutting the tubes easier and faster (straight cut vs miters), allow the stays to be wider apart to accommodate wider tires without bending/shaping, and as Peter notes assemble more quickly via brazing vs filet. In other words, I suspect the lug caps accommodate quicker/less error prone assembly. I don’t know that the objective is a stronger joint although that could well be a benefit of this method. Hugh “not a builder” Flynn Newburyport, MA On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 7:25 AM Peter White wrote: > It's easier to get a fillet wrong. I got one wrong when I was building > frames 20 years ago and it cracked. If you get the fillet right it can be > lighter and more attractive. But if I were designing a frame to be > inexpensive to make and strong, I'd forget about using fillets. > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:43 PM Stephen W. > wrote: > >> I'm not a frame builder. But I have a question for those that certainly >> know more about bicycles/frames/lugs. Is the new socketed lug as strong, >> perhaps stronger, than brazing the seat stays to the outside of the lug? >> Just wondering. >> >> I've attached some pics, I think. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Stephen >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > Peter White > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Hugh Flynn Newburyport, MA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Socketed Seat Lug on a Hunqapillar
It's easier to get a fillet wrong. I got one wrong when I was building frames 20 years ago and it cracked. If you get the fillet right it can be lighter and more attractive. But if I were designing a frame to be inexpensive to make and strong, I'd forget about using fillets. On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:43 PM Stephen W. wrote: > I'm not a frame builder. But I have a question for those that certainly > know more about bicycles/frames/lugs. Is the new socketed lug as strong, > perhaps stronger, than brazing the seat stays to the outside of the lug? > Just wondering. > > I've attached some pics, I think. > > Thanks in advance, > > Stephen > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Peter White -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
