[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Joe Shoemaker Music]

I’m with ya. I reeeally want to put the lugged nitto seatpost on my 
Appaloosa to match my lugged stem, because in vein and OCD about that stuff 
:), but it’s just not in the cards. Oh well 
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 10:24:06 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I would argue that ignoring modern MTBs and "all the proprietary crap" is 
> a long way from establishing there is a standard seatpost size in the 
> bicycle industry. 
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 9:19:49 AM UTC-8 Nathan F wrote:
>
>> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
>> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
>> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring the 
>> sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here comes 
>> Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some sort of 
>> tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used infrequently 3+ 
>> decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of Riv's talk over the 
>> years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they then spec the 
>> strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a custom?? Really? I'd 
>> return it!).
>>
>> Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer using 
>> a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a proprietary seat 
>> post. 
>> On Wednesday, 25 November 2020 at 22:05:42 UTC-8 Philip Williamson wrote:
>>
>>> Mr The Snag, I am very interested in seeing your mountain mixte with the 
>>> dropper post. I think droppers are better than bread; it’s a shame 
>>> Rivendell specs pinner seat posts.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:48:56 PM UTC-8 The Snag wrote:
>>>
 Yes. It was quite the chore to put a dropper post on my Mtn mixte. 
 Funny how that .4mm makes such a difference in options.

 On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, 
 Sunnyvale, CA wrote:

> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn 
> NY wrote:
>
>> The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, 
>> well then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good 
>> gets, 
>> and I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim 
>> on 
>> my Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
>
>
> While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
> lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is 
> only 
> available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace 
> a 
> suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.
>
> Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally 
> become available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements 
> though.
>


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8716389-92ce-448a-a880-5eeecc99ab1en%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[scott minor]

Do MIT frames all take 26.8 seat posts?   Wondering specifically about the 
MIT Atlantis..


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f72632d1-62f7-4034-b3ff-1dc488f58ab9n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Mark Roland]

Well, as I said above, I'm not an expert in suspension posts, so I haven't 
seen the testing labeling one or another brand far superior, one that many 
people love, and therefore rendering my point into a straw man. In 50 years 
of riding, with clubs, for transportation, being involved in many ways, 
I've never ridden with someone who purposely rode with a suspension post. 
Caveat--I am not a mountain biker so don't have a lot of experience in that 
world, though I understand there the whole bike is usually suspended. The 
ones I've come across in the wild were on hybrids, cheap mtbs, (now extinct 
?) "comfort" bikes, and tandem stoker posts.
I guess my point was more if you really want a certain Riv model, you can 
probably find a way to get a seat post that will work for you. Maybe you 
could get .2mm milled off the post and .2 reamed out of the seat tube. Or 
just be thankful the Hillborne takes a 27.2 and call it a blessed day.

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 1:58:42 PM UTC-5 Nathan F wrote:

> We're basically just bickering at this point but I can't help myself... 
> the suspension posts posted on eBay above are all awful compared to the 
> market leading suspension posts from Cane Creek and the like. They're not 
> even really the same thing from a functionality perspective. Linking to 
> them is a total straw man. 
>
> Cane Creek's design has been around for 20+ years, and is a well proven, 
> tunable, and serviceable technology. Lots and lots of people love them and 
> I suspect that's what OP was hoping to use.
> On Friday, 27 November 2020 at 09:52:58 UTC-8 bfd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My bad, the Op did ask about suspension posts. Someone else asked about 
>> dropper post. Still, it does make you wonder what Grant is thinking going 
>> to a 26.8mm seatpost on his frames?! 
>>
>> Good Luck!
>>
>> On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 8:53:01 AM UTC-8 Brewster Fong wrote:
>>
>>> The question I have is are these "suspension" post that you refer to the 
>>> same a dropper post that he OP is seeking?!  The dropper post is the latest 
>>> thing for gravel/mtbs as it allows you to adjust the saddle height with the 
>>> press of a button. These posts aren't cheap a they start at like $200 and 
>>> go up! I think Sram's wireless post is $800+
>>>
>>> Good Luck! 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:59:09 PM UTC-8 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
 Here are a bunch of 26.8 suspension posts on eBay 
 
  
 right now. Should last a lifetime of Rivs!



 On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:48:44 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:

> Yes. Tubing diameter and thickness generally dictates seat post size. 
> In that sense, the sizing is part of its functionality. A 26.8 seat post 
> size is not exactly unusual, and before 27.2 became dominant, was fairly 
> common. I have several bikes, other than my recent Rivs, that use this 
> size. 
>
> If you want a cheap but good one, you can get a Kalloy Uno 
> 
> .
>
> If you want a middle range, you can get one from Dajia Cycleworks(note 
> most sizes currently out of stock).
>
> If you want blingy dingy doo, you can get a Nitto 
> 
> .
>
> There are many vintage 26.8 seat posts available on eBay, including 
> Campy 
> 
>  
> (though these tend to often be short) .
>
> Or use the seat post included with all Rivendell framesets.
>
> Before we pile on too heavy, I don't see it as a dying, esoteric size 
> at this point.
>
> The OP wants to run a suspension post due to medical issues. Running a 
> suspension post, which are of questionable value in my experience (but 
> obviously not for the OP), is what is unusual, not the seat post size.
>
> I think there are probably ways (though perhaps pricey) to have your 
> cake and eat it too. For that you might need to go custom, as I pointed 
> out 
> above. Since Thudbuster makes specialty seat posts while Riv makes 
> standard 
> bicycles, it would make more sense to complain to TB and try to convince 
> them there is a market for 26.8 suspension seat posts. 
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree 
>> that 26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
>>> frustrating choice, 

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[David Person]

Nathan, your spot on with your comment on the pogo stick seat posts selling 
on eBay for $25.  And actually, I'm not looking to buy another suspension 
seat post as I own 2 Kinekt seat posts in 27.2.  I use one on my 
Hillborne.  My angst is that I'd would have liked to get an Appaloosa 
frameset at some point, but not now that they take 26.8mm posts, which 
severely limits ones options, compared to what is available in 27.2.  

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 10:58:42 AM UTC-8 Nathan F wrote:

> We're basically just bickering at this point but I can't help myself... 
> the suspension posts posted on eBay above are all awful compared to the 
> market leading suspension posts from Cane Creek and the like. They're not 
> even really the same thing from a functionality perspective. Linking to 
> them is a total straw man. 
>
> Cane Creek's design has been around for 20+ years, and is a well proven, 
> tunable, and serviceable technology. Lots and lots of people love them and 
> I suspect that's what OP was hoping to use.
> On Friday, 27 November 2020 at 09:52:58 UTC-8 bfd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My bad, the Op did ask about suspension posts. Someone else asked about 
>> dropper post. Still, it does make you wonder what Grant is thinking going 
>> to a 26.8mm seatpost on his frames?! 
>>
>> Good Luck!
>>
>> On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 8:53:01 AM UTC-8 Brewster Fong wrote:
>>
>>> The question I have is are these "suspension" post that you refer to the 
>>> same a dropper post that he OP is seeking?!  The dropper post is the latest 
>>> thing for gravel/mtbs as it allows you to adjust the saddle height with the 
>>> press of a button. These posts aren't cheap a they start at like $200 and 
>>> go up! I think Sram's wireless post is $800+
>>>
>>> Good Luck! 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:59:09 PM UTC-8 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
 Here are a bunch of 26.8 suspension posts on eBay 
 
  
 right now. Should last a lifetime of Rivs!



 On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:48:44 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:

> Yes. Tubing diameter and thickness generally dictates seat post size. 
> In that sense, the sizing is part of its functionality. A 26.8 seat post 
> size is not exactly unusual, and before 27.2 became dominant, was fairly 
> common. I have several bikes, other than my recent Rivs, that use this 
> size. 
>
> If you want a cheap but good one, you can get a Kalloy Uno 
> 
> .
>
> If you want a middle range, you can get one from Dajia Cycleworks(note 
> most sizes currently out of stock).
>
> If you want blingy dingy doo, you can get a Nitto 
> 
> .
>
> There are many vintage 26.8 seat posts available on eBay, including 
> Campy 
> 
>  
> (though these tend to often be short) .
>
> Or use the seat post included with all Rivendell framesets.
>
> Before we pile on too heavy, I don't see it as a dying, esoteric size 
> at this point.
>
> The OP wants to run a suspension post due to medical issues. Running a 
> suspension post, which are of questionable value in my experience (but 
> obviously not for the OP), is what is unusual, not the seat post size.
>
> I think there are probably ways (though perhaps pricey) to have your 
> cake and eat it too. For that you might need to go custom, as I pointed 
> out 
> above. Since Thudbuster makes specialty seat posts while Riv makes 
> standard 
> bicycles, it would make more sense to complain to TB and try to convince 
> them there is a market for 26.8 suspension seat posts. 
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree 
>> that 26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
>>> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things 
>>> in 
>>> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring 
>>> the sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then 
>>> here 
>>> comes Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some 
>>> sort of tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used 
>>> infrequently 3+ decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of 
>>> Riv's talk over the years bemoaning the 

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Nathan F]

We're basically just bickering at this point but I can't help myself... the 
suspension posts posted on eBay above are all awful compared to the market 
leading suspension posts from Cane Creek and the like. They're not even 
really the same thing from a functionality perspective. Linking to them is 
a total straw man. 

Cane Creek's design has been around for 20+ years, and is a well proven, 
tunable, and serviceable technology. Lots and lots of people love them and 
I suspect that's what OP was hoping to use.
On Friday, 27 November 2020 at 09:52:58 UTC-8 bfd...@gmail.com wrote:

> My bad, the Op did ask about suspension posts. Someone else asked about 
> dropper post. Still, it does make you wonder what Grant is thinking going 
> to a 26.8mm seatpost on his frames?! 
>
> Good Luck!
>
> On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 8:53:01 AM UTC-8 Brewster Fong wrote:
>
>> The question I have is are these "suspension" post that you refer to the 
>> same a dropper post that he OP is seeking?!  The dropper post is the latest 
>> thing for gravel/mtbs as it allows you to adjust the saddle height with the 
>> press of a button. These posts aren't cheap a they start at like $200 and 
>> go up! I think Sram's wireless post is $800+
>>
>> Good Luck! 
>>
>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:59:09 PM UTC-8 Mark Roland wrote:
>>
>>> Here are a bunch of 26.8 suspension posts on eBay 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> right now. Should last a lifetime of Rivs!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:48:44 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
 Yes. Tubing diameter and thickness generally dictates seat post size. 
 In that sense, the sizing is part of its functionality. A 26.8 seat post 
 size is not exactly unusual, and before 27.2 became dominant, was fairly 
 common. I have several bikes, other than my recent Rivs, that use this 
 size. 

 If you want a cheap but good one, you can get a Kalloy Uno 
 
 .

 If you want a middle range, you can get one from Dajia Cycleworks(note 
 most sizes currently out of stock).

 If you want blingy dingy doo, you can get a Nitto 
 
 .

 There are many vintage 26.8 seat posts available on eBay, including 
 Campy 
 
  
 (though these tend to often be short) .

 Or use the seat post included with all Rivendell framesets.

 Before we pile on too heavy, I don't see it as a dying, esoteric size 
 at this point.

 The OP wants to run a suspension post due to medical issues. Running a 
 suspension post, which are of questionable value in my experience (but 
 obviously not for the OP), is what is unusual, not the seat post size.

 I think there are probably ways (though perhaps pricey) to have your 
 cake and eat it too. For that you might need to go custom, as I pointed 
 out 
 above. Since Thudbuster makes specialty seat posts while Riv makes 
 standard 
 bicycles, it would make more sense to complain to TB and try to convince 
 them there is a market for 26.8 suspension seat posts. 
 On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree 
> that 26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  wrote:
>
>> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
>> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
>> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring 
>> the sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then 
>> here 
>> comes Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some 
>> sort of tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used 
>> infrequently 3+ decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of 
>> Riv's talk over the years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they 
>> then spec the strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a 
>> custom?? Really? I'd return it!).
>>
>> Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer 
>> using a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a 
>> proprietary 
>> seat post. 
>>
>
>  
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are 

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Brewster Fong]

My bad, the Op did ask about suspension posts. Someone else asked about 
dropper post. Still, it does make you wonder what Grant is thinking going 
to a 26.8mm seatpost on his frames?! 

Good Luck!

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 8:53:01 AM UTC-8 Brewster Fong wrote:

> The question I have is are these "suspension" post that you refer to the 
> same a dropper post that he OP is seeking?!  The dropper post is the latest 
> thing for gravel/mtbs as it allows you to adjust the saddle height with the 
> press of a button. These posts aren't cheap a they start at like $200 and 
> go up! I think Sram's wireless post is $800+
>
> Good Luck! 
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:59:09 PM UTC-8 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> Here are a bunch of 26.8 suspension posts on eBay 
>> 
>>  
>> right now. Should last a lifetime of Rivs!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:48:44 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. Tubing diameter and thickness generally dictates seat post size. In 
>>> that sense, the sizing is part of its functionality. A 26.8 seat post size 
>>> is not exactly unusual, and before 27.2 became dominant, was fairly common. 
>>> I have several bikes, other than my recent Rivs, that use this size. 
>>>
>>> If you want a cheap but good one, you can get a Kalloy Uno 
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> If you want a middle range, you can get one from Dajia Cycleworks(note 
>>> most sizes currently out of stock).
>>>
>>> If you want blingy dingy doo, you can get a Nitto 
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> There are many vintage 26.8 seat posts available on eBay, including 
>>> Campy 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> (though these tend to often be short) .
>>>
>>> Or use the seat post included with all Rivendell framesets.
>>>
>>> Before we pile on too heavy, I don't see it as a dying, esoteric size at 
>>> this point.
>>>
>>> The OP wants to run a suspension post due to medical issues. Running a 
>>> suspension post, which are of questionable value in my experience (but 
>>> obviously not for the OP), is what is unusual, not the seat post size.
>>>
>>> I think there are probably ways (though perhaps pricey) to have your 
>>> cake and eat it too. For that you might need to go custom, as I pointed out 
>>> above. Since Thudbuster makes specialty seat posts while Riv makes standard 
>>> bicycles, it would make more sense to complain to TB and try to convince 
>>> them there is a market for 26.8 suspension seat posts. 
>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree 
 that 26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.

 On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  wrote:

> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring 
> the sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here 
> comes Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some 
> sort of tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used 
> infrequently 3+ decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of 
> Riv's talk over the years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they 
> then spec the strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a 
> custom?? Really? I'd return it!).
>
> Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer 
> using a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a 
> proprietary 
> seat post. 
>

  
 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1ee94d27-5120-45a4-810d-490b1c87e5c3n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Brewster Fong]

The question I have is are these "suspension" post that you refer to the 
same a dropper post that he OP is seeking?!  The dropper post is the latest 
thing for gravel/mtbs as it allows you to adjust the saddle height with the 
press of a button. These posts aren't cheap a they start at like $200 and 
go up! I think Sram's wireless post is $800+

Good Luck! 

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:59:09 PM UTC-8 Mark Roland wrote:

> Here are a bunch of 26.8 suspension posts on eBay 
> 
>  
> right now. Should last a lifetime of Rivs!
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:48:44 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> Yes. Tubing diameter and thickness generally dictates seat post size. In 
>> that sense, the sizing is part of its functionality. A 26.8 seat post size 
>> is not exactly unusual, and before 27.2 became dominant, was fairly common. 
>> I have several bikes, other than my recent Rivs, that use this size. 
>>
>> If you want a cheap but good one, you can get a Kalloy Uno 
>> .
>>
>> If you want a middle range, you can get one from Dajia Cycleworks(note 
>> most sizes currently out of stock).
>>
>> If you want blingy dingy doo, you can get a Nitto 
>> 
>> .
>>
>> There are many vintage 26.8 seat posts available on eBay, including Campy 
>> 
>>  
>> (though these tend to often be short) .
>>
>> Or use the seat post included with all Rivendell framesets.
>>
>> Before we pile on too heavy, I don't see it as a dying, esoteric size at 
>> this point.
>>
>> The OP wants to run a suspension post due to medical issues. Running a 
>> suspension post, which are of questionable value in my experience (but 
>> obviously not for the OP), is what is unusual, not the seat post size.
>>
>> I think there are probably ways (though perhaps pricey) to have your cake 
>> and eat it too. For that you might need to go custom, as I pointed out 
>> above. Since Thudbuster makes specialty seat posts while Riv makes standard 
>> bicycles, it would make more sense to complain to TB and try to convince 
>> them there is a market for 26.8 suspension seat posts. 
>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree 
>>> that 26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  wrote:
>>>
 I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
 frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
 the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring 
 the sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here 
 comes Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some 
 sort of tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used 
 infrequently 3+ decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of 
 Riv's talk over the years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they 
 then spec the strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a 
 custom?? Really? I'd return it!).

 Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer 
 using a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a 
 proprietary 
 seat post. 

>>>
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b25b9509-b43c-44e1-a750-6c24a1c7d75dn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Garth]

Along with what Mark stated, 26.8mm seatposts are far from alien. I gave 
the link to the Gravity dropper posts, all 3 of their models come in 26.8 
and they offer many options for the amount of travel. 

Kalloy, which makes the Dajia/Soma, among many other re-brands, makes at 
least 3 totally different styles of posts currently in 26.8. 

This 2 bolt one from SJS Cycles as the PRO brand appears to be a Kalloy 
SP-376. It's also made under the Euro brand Procraft from many German 
retailers.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/shimano-pro-aero-silver-alloy-seatpost-268-x-220-mm/?geoc=US

I may have bought one of these Promax ones if it had a bit more setback, 
and it comes in silver, black, blue, red and gold !
https://www.promaxcomponents.com/product/sp-1-seatpost/


On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:59:09 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:

> Here are a bunch of 26.8 suspension posts on eBay 
> 
>  
> right now. Should last a lifetime of Rivs!
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:48:44 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> Yes. Tubing diameter and thickness generally dictates seat post size. In 
>> that sense, the sizing is part of its functionality. A 26.8 seat post size 
>> is not exactly unusual, and before 27.2 became dominant, was fairly common. 
>> I have several bikes, other than my recent Rivs, that use this size. 
>>
>> If you want a cheap but good one, you can get a Kalloy Uno 
>> .
>>
>> If you want a middle range, you can get one from Dajia Cycleworks(note 
>> most sizes currently out of stock).
>>
>> If you want blingy dingy doo, you can get a Nitto 
>> 
>> .
>>
>> There are many vintage 26.8 seat posts available on eBay, including Campy 
>> 
>>  
>> (though these tend to often be short) .
>>
>> Or use the seat post included with all Rivendell framesets.
>>
>> Before we pile on too heavy, I don't see it as a dying, esoteric size at 
>> this point.
>>
>> The OP wants to run a suspension post due to medical issues. Running a 
>> suspension post, which are of questionable value in my experience (but 
>> obviously not for the OP), is what is unusual, not the seat post size.
>>
>> I think there are probably ways (though perhaps pricey) to have your cake 
>> and eat it too. For that you might need to go custom, as I pointed out 
>> above. Since Thudbuster makes specialty seat posts while Riv makes standard 
>> bicycles, it would make more sense to complain to TB and try to convince 
>> them there is a market for 26.8 suspension seat posts. 
>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree 
>>> that 26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  wrote:
>>>
 I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
 frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
 the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring 
 the sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here 
 comes Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some 
 sort of tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used 
 infrequently 3+ decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of 
 Riv's talk over the years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they 
 then spec the strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a 
 custom?? Really? I'd return it!).

 Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer 
 using a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a 
 proprietary 
 seat post. 

>>>
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8ee0d77-b375-4d96-8b66-647732479336n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Mark Roland]

Here are a bunch of 26.8 suspension posts on eBay 

 
right now. Should last a lifetime of Rivs!



On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:48:44 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:

> Yes. Tubing diameter and thickness generally dictates seat post size. In 
> that sense, the sizing is part of its functionality. A 26.8 seat post size 
> is not exactly unusual, and before 27.2 became dominant, was fairly common. 
> I have several bikes, other than my recent Rivs, that use this size. 
>
> If you want a cheap but good one, you can get a Kalloy Uno 
> .
>
> If you want a middle range, you can get one from Dajia Cycleworks(note 
> most sizes currently out of stock).
>
> If you want blingy dingy doo, you can get a Nitto 
> 
> .
>
> There are many vintage 26.8 seat posts available on eBay, including Campy 
> 
>  
> (though these tend to often be short) .
>
> Or use the seat post included with all Rivendell framesets.
>
> Before we pile on too heavy, I don't see it as a dying, esoteric size at 
> this point.
>
> The OP wants to run a suspension post due to medical issues. Running a 
> suspension post, which are of questionable value in my experience (but 
> obviously not for the OP), is what is unusual, not the seat post size.
>
> I think there are probably ways (though perhaps pricey) to have your cake 
> and eat it too. For that you might need to go custom, as I pointed out 
> above. Since Thudbuster makes specialty seat posts while Riv makes standard 
> bicycles, it would make more sense to complain to TB and try to convince 
> them there is a market for 26.8 suspension seat posts. 
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree 
>> that 26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  wrote:
>>
>>> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
>>> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
>>> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring the 
>>> sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here comes 
>>> Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some sort of 
>>> tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used infrequently 3+ 
>>> decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of Riv's talk over the 
>>> years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they then spec the 
>>> strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a custom?? Really? I'd 
>>> return it!).
>>>
>>> Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer 
>>> using a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a proprietary 
>>> seat post. 
>>>
>>
>>  
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/32e213c3-77dd-4d4b-a610-7b4fc284eb42n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Mark Roland]

Yes. Tubing diameter and thickness generally dictates seat post size. In 
that sense, the sizing is part of its functionality. A 26.8 seat post size 
is not exactly unusual, and before 27.2 became dominant, was fairly common. 
I have several bikes, other than my recent Rivs, that use this size. 

If you want a cheap but good one, you can get a Kalloy Uno 
.

If you want a middle range, you can get one from Dajia Cycleworks(note most 
sizes currently out of stock).

If you want blingy dingy doo, you can get a Nitto 

.

There are many vintage 26.8 seat posts available on eBay, including Campy 

 
(though these tend to often be short) .

Or use the seat post included with all Rivendell framesets.

Before we pile on too heavy, I don't see it as a dying, esoteric size at 
this point.

The OP wants to run a suspension post due to medical issues. Running a 
suspension post, which are of questionable value in my experience (but 
obviously not for the OP), is what is unusual, not the seat post size.

I think there are probably ways (though perhaps pricey) to have your cake 
and eat it too. For that you might need to go custom, as I pointed out 
above. Since Thudbuster makes specialty seat posts while Riv makes standard 
bicycles, it would make more sense to complain to TB and try to convince 
them there is a market for 26.8 suspension seat posts. 
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree that 
> 26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  wrote:
>
>> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
>> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
>> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring the 
>> sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here comes 
>> Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some sort of 
>> tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used infrequently 3+ 
>> decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of Riv's talk over the 
>> years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they then spec the 
>> strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a custom?? Really? I'd 
>> return it!).
>>
>> Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer using 
>> a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a proprietary seat 
>> post. 
>>
>
>  
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3eac1209-c793-4bfd-a2a2-87399fc79064n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Patrick Moore]

Isn't seatpost diameter dictated by tubing choice? That said, I agree that
26.8 is less desirable given supply than 27.2.

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 10:19 AM Nathan F  wrote:

> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a
> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in
> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring the
> sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here comes
> Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some sort of
> tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used infrequently 3+
> decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of Riv's talk over the
> years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they then spec the
> strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a custom?? Really? I'd
> return it!).
>
> Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer using
> a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a proprietary seat
> post.
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgv0NPYCUUf6MfB3SujuYx-q%2BLxCmh3YSO_biVV8ptsUAg%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Nathan F]

I didn't try to establish there is a standard seatpost size, I said* almost 
*standard ; ) How about this phrasing: there are only a few sizes in broad 
use today and the most common one is 27.2.

Ignoring that part of what I said, my point still stands. Using weird old 
sizes like Riv does reduces options for customers and is a dumb idea!
On Thursday, 26 November 2020 at 10:24:06 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I would argue that ignoring modern MTBs and "all the proprietary crap" is 
> a long way from establishing there is a standard seatpost size in the 
> bicycle industry. 
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 9:19:49 AM UTC-8 Nathan F wrote:
>
>> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
>> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
>> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring the 
>> sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here comes 
>> Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some sort of 
>> tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used infrequently 3+ 
>> decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of Riv's talk over the 
>> years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they then spec the 
>> strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a custom?? Really? I'd 
>> return it!).
>>
>> Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer using 
>> a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a proprietary seat 
>> post. 
>> On Wednesday, 25 November 2020 at 22:05:42 UTC-8 Philip Williamson wrote:
>>
>>> Mr The Snag, I am very interested in seeing your mountain mixte with the 
>>> dropper post. I think droppers are better than bread; it’s a shame 
>>> Rivendell specs pinner seat posts.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:48:56 PM UTC-8 The Snag wrote:
>>>
 Yes. It was quite the chore to put a dropper post on my Mtn mixte. 
 Funny how that .4mm makes such a difference in options.

 On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, 
 Sunnyvale, CA wrote:

> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn 
> NY wrote:
>
>> The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, 
>> well then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good 
>> gets, 
>> and I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim 
>> on 
>> my Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
>
>
> While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
> lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is 
> only 
> available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace 
> a 
> suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.
>
> Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally 
> become available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements 
> though.
>


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0b465fbb-bf88-4da6-8f0a-7f6f7ca0803en%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Joe Bernard]

I would argue that ignoring modern MTBs and "all the proprietary crap" is a 
long way from establishing there is a standard seatpost size in the bicycle 
industry. 



On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 9:19:49 AM UTC-8 Nathan F wrote:

> I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
> frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
> the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring the 
> sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here comes 
> Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some sort of 
> tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used infrequently 3+ 
> decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of Riv's talk over the 
> years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they then spec the 
> strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a custom?? Really? I'd 
> return it!).
>
> Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer using 
> a dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a proprietary seat 
> post. 
> On Wednesday, 25 November 2020 at 22:05:42 UTC-8 Philip Williamson wrote:
>
>> Mr The Snag, I am very interested in seeing your mountain mixte with the 
>> dropper post. I think droppers are better than bread; it’s a shame 
>> Rivendell specs pinner seat posts.
>>
>> Philip
>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:48:56 PM UTC-8 The Snag wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. It was quite the chore to put a dropper post on my Mtn mixte. Funny 
>>> how that .4mm makes such a difference in options.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, 
>>> Sunnyvale, CA wrote:
>>>
 On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn 
 NY wrote:

> The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, 
> well then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good 
> gets, 
> and I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on 
> my Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)


 While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
 lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is only 
 available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace 
 a 
 suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.

 Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally 
 become available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements 
 though.

>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2a03a6fe-7743-48ae-bf43-f78b3cafb515n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Nathan F]

I was also disappointed to learn my Hillborne used a 26.8. What a 
frustrating choice, since seat post diameter is one of the few things in 
the bicycling industry that is *almost* standard nowadays (ignoring the 
sizes in use on modern MTB, plus all the proprietary crap). Then here comes 
Riv using something else! And instead of picking a size with some sort of 
tangible benefit, they picked a seemingly random one used infrequently 3+ 
decades ago. It's a bit eye-rolling, really, for all of Riv's talk over the 
years bemoaning the fickleness of the industry they then spec the 
strangest, most hard to find post diameters (30.0 on a custom?? Really? I'd 
return it!).

Here's a controversial statement: being the only frame manufacturer using a 
dead/rare post size is almost no different than using a proprietary seat 
post. 
On Wednesday, 25 November 2020 at 22:05:42 UTC-8 Philip Williamson wrote:

> Mr The Snag, I am very interested in seeing your mountain mixte with the 
> dropper post. I think droppers are better than bread; it’s a shame 
> Rivendell specs pinner seat posts.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:48:56 PM UTC-8 The Snag wrote:
>
>> Yes. It was quite the chore to put a dropper post on my Mtn mixte. Funny 
>> how that .4mm makes such a difference in options.
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, 
>> CA wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn 
>>> NY wrote:
>>>
 The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, 
 well then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good 
 gets, 
 and I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on 
 my Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
>>>
>>>
>>> While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
>>> lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is only 
>>> available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace a 
>>> suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally become 
>>> available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements though.
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0b93e1b4-c1c2-48de-9bb8-c3596bbaa962n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Philip Williamson]

Mr The Snag, I am very interested in seeing your mountain mixte with the 
dropper post. I think droppers are better than bread; it’s a shame 
Rivendell specs pinner seat posts.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:48:56 PM UTC-8 The Snag wrote:

> Yes. It was quite the chore to put a dropper post on my Mtn mixte. Funny 
> how that .4mm makes such a difference in options.
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, 
> CA wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, well 
>>> then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good gets, and 
>>> I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on my 
>>> Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
>>
>>
>> While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
>> lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is only 
>> available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace a 
>> suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.
>>
>> Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally become 
>> available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements though.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3eeab18d-68e5-4f2a-99b6-49c26669336an%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[David Person]

27.2mm is smallest diameter on the current Thudbuster models.

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 4:09:49 AM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
wrote:

> Oops!, my love for the s83 narrowed my focus, sorry. Cane Creek's 
> thudbuster come in a 26.8, I hear them mentioned a lot in tandem talk, are 
> they a decent post?
> -Kai
>
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 1:23:05 AM UTC-5 David Person wrote:
>
>> [image: DB7E7621-8939-4E95-8B25-F9ED1A8BDB24.jpeg]Benz, you get my 
>> point.  A lumbar fusion has made a suspension seat post almost a necessity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, 
>> CA wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn 
>>> NY wrote:
>>>
 The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, 
 well then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good 
 gets, 
 and I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on 
 my Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
>>>
>>>
>>> While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
>>> lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is only 
>>> available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace a 
>>> suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally become 
>>> available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements though.
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/090d24e0-cad0-40d5-a8df-f0791370b0a5n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Mark Schneider]

I'd prefer 27.2 but there are plenty of options for 26.8,  prefer thinner 
tubing mostly. 

Mark


On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 5:14:20 AM UTC-8 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Not to veer too far off topic...but model what is the stock build seat 
> post that comes with a Riv frame? I don’t think it’s even Nitto at all (or 
> is it?)...and wondering what upgrading to s83 or even just the s65.
>
> Ben
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 25, 2020, at 7:07 AM, lconley  wrote:
>
> My Bombadil was 27.0 - I used a brake cylinder hone to take it out to 
> 27.15 or so, so that a 27.2 Nitto S-84 lugged seatpost would fit. On a side 
> note, my Guv'nor is also a 27.0.
>
> My Rivendell Custom was 30.0 - I had never even heard of that size (31.8 
> tube OD, 0.9 thick) - The only quality seatpost that I could find was an 
> NOS Campagnolo Icarus - which is nice, but only single bolt design. I am 
> not big on using seatpost shims.
> Nitto makes long S-83s and S-84s, but Rivendell does not sell them. I have 
> 300mm versions of both, I think that I saw a 350mm S-83 for sale once.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 6:55:20 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote:
>
>> I sure wish Riv hadn't changed the seat post diameter from 27.2mm to 
>> 26.8mm on their frames. Doing so really limits the available seat post 
>> options.  One particular suspension seat post I use is only available in 
>> 27.2mm.  Baffles me why Riv chose to do that.  Glad I got my Hillborne 
>> before the change, but rules out an Appaloosa as my next bike.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/038bd855-f742-4f76-b05a-fa529f347299n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a5a40347-b6d0-4a35-966a-cb0e180cdde9n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Ben Mihovk]

Not to veer too far off topic...but model what is the stock build seat post 
that comes with a Riv frame? I don’t think it’s even Nitto at all (or is 
it?)...and wondering what upgrading to s83 or even just the s65.

Ben

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2020, at 7:07 AM, lconley  wrote:
> 
> My Bombadil was 27.0 - I used a brake cylinder hone to take it out to 27.15 
> or so, so that a 27.2 Nitto S-84 lugged seatpost would fit. On a side note, 
> my Guv'nor is also a 27.0.
> My Rivendell Custom was 30.0 - I had never even heard of that size (31.8 tube 
> OD, 0.9 thick) - The only quality seatpost that I could find was an NOS 
> Campagnolo Icarus - which is nice, but only single bolt design. I am not big 
> on using seatpost shims.
> Nitto makes long S-83s and S-84s, but Rivendell does not sell them. I have 
> 300mm versions of both, I think that I saw a 350mm S-83 for sale once.
> 
> Laing
> 
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 6:55:20 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote:
>> I sure wish Riv hadn't changed the seat post diameter from 27.2mm to 26.8mm 
>> on their frames. Doing so really limits the available seat post options.  
>> One particular suspension seat post I use is only available in 27.2mm.  
>> Baffles me why Riv chose to do that.  Glad I got my Hillborne before the 
>> change, but rules out an Appaloosa as my next bike.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/038bd855-f742-4f76-b05a-fa529f347299n%40googlegroups.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/D2A7CBA4-62B3-478C-B219-9CD9E0682A73%40gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[lconley]

My Bombadil was 27.0 - I used a brake cylinder hone to take it out to 27.15 
or so, so that a 27.2 Nitto S-84 lugged seatpost would fit. On a side note, 
my Guv'nor is also a 27.0.
My Rivendell Custom was 30.0 - I had never even heard of that size (31.8 
tube OD, 0.9 thick) - The only quality seatpost that I could find was an 
NOS Campagnolo Icarus - which is nice, but only single bolt design. I am 
not big on using seatpost shims.
Nitto makes long S-83s and S-84s, but Rivendell does not sell them. I have 
300mm versions of both, I think that I saw a 350mm S-83 for sale once.

Laing

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 6:55:20 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote:

> I sure wish Riv hadn't changed the seat post diameter from 27.2mm to 
> 26.8mm on their frames. Doing so really limits the available seat post 
> options.  One particular suspension seat post I use is only available in 
> 27.2mm.  Baffles me why Riv chose to do that.  Glad I got my Hillborne 
> before the change, but rules out an Appaloosa as my next bike.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/038bd855-f742-4f76-b05a-fa529f347299n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Oops!, my love for the s83 narrowed my focus, sorry. Cane Creek's 
thudbuster come in a 26.8, I hear them mentioned a lot in tandem talk, are 
they a decent post?
-Kai

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 1:23:05 AM UTC-5 David Person wrote:

> [image: DB7E7621-8939-4E95-8B25-F9ED1A8BDB24.jpeg]Benz, you get my point. 
>  A lumbar fusion has made a suspension seat post almost a necessity.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, 
> CA wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, well 
>>> then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good gets, and 
>>> I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on my 
>>> Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
>>
>>
>> While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
>> lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is only 
>> available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace a 
>> suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.
>>
>> Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally become 
>> available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements though.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c69ed95f-4765-4dce-ba8c-61bce49f0504n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Garth]

There's these David, Gravity makes dropper posts, 26.8. 

http://gravitydropper.com/products/

There's also the classic Hite-Rites

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-HITE-RITE-Saddle-Dropper-New-Sealed-In-Package-/183231146016

No bounds !

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/df897c1e-c969-447c-949e-c136c998758en%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Mark Roland]

Maybe you could find someone to make you a custom seat post, perhaps using 
the suspension model you like as a starting point. There's these guys: 
https://kenteriksen.com/seatposts/   
and looks like a few that use titanium. Probably will be pricey, but worth 
it I'm sure for a last forever bike like a Rivendell.

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 1:23:05 AM UTC-5 David Person wrote:

> [image: DB7E7621-8939-4E95-8B25-F9ED1A8BDB24.jpeg]Benz, you get my point. 
>  A lumbar fusion has made a suspension seat post almost a necessity.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, 
> CA wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, well 
>>> then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good gets, and 
>>> I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on my 
>>> Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
>>
>>
>> While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
>> lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is only 
>> available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace a 
>> suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.
>>
>> Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally become 
>> available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements though.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6442a803-beed-4499-b679-8367a3c7c7f5n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[The Snag]

Yes. It was quite the chore to put a dropper post on my Mtn mixte. Funny 
how that .4mm makes such a difference in options.

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:38:12 PM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, 
CA wrote:

> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
> wrote:
>
>> The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, well 
>> then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good gets, and 
>> I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on my 
>> Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
>
>
> While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
> lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is only 
> available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace a 
> suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.
>
> Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally become 
> available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements though.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f39ec4f0-8c6b-494e-993c-02e44e4fe838n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-8 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
wrote:

> The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, well 
> then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good gets, and 
> I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on my 
> Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)


While what you said about the Nitto S83 is arguably true, the OP was 
lamenting that he couldn't use a suspension seatpost he likes that is only 
available in the much more common 27.2mm size. No S83 is going to replace a 
suspension seatpost if a suspension seatpost is what you want.

Nevertheless, vintage U.S.E. suspension seatposts do occasionally become 
available on eBay. I don't know if those are adequate replacements though.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f8cb93fd-c1e9-4669-8246-c5912910bd64n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 6:01:18 PM UTC-8 christian poppell wrote:

> It would be a seat tube change and not the lug. Many tubes for are butted 
> internally so that lugs will fit multiple tube butt thicknesses. 
>
> 28.6mm x .9mm wall (26.8mm ID) vs .7mm (27.2mm ID). 
>

Does that mean one can ream it out to 27.2mm if one has the proper reamer?

FWIW, 26.8mm isn't that common anymore. I had to find one for a NOS Ritchey 
P-21 frame that a friend gifted me, and it was either some el cheapo thing, 
or pay through the nose for a NOS or like-new seatpost from the 90s. Yes, 
there are Thomsons and Nittos, but the Nittos are usually too short 
(because they're intended for road bikes), and the Thomsons are…well, if 
you have to ask why a Thomson doesn't belong on a Ritchey P-21…

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9d12f792-8137-48ae-92a6-d6c5ca29a55en%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

The S83 comes in 26.8, and if you need a better seatpost than that, well 
then maybe you do, who am I to say. For me, it's as good as good gets, and 
I've got an 84 to compare it to! (in 27.2, which I use with a shim on my 
Clem that has a 665.5* seattube)
-Kai
*not quite evil, but very close, certainly not as bad as 26.8

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 6:55:20 PM UTC-5 David Person wrote:

> I sure wish Riv hadn't changed the seat post diameter from 27.2mm to 
> 26.8mm on their frames. Doing so really limits the available seat post 
> options.  One particular suspension seat post I use is only available in 
> 27.2mm.  Baffles me why Riv chose to do that.  Glad I got my Hillborne 
> before the change, but rules out an Appaloosa as my next bike.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d215230b-2c28-4721-93cb-d801a5acac55n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[David Person]

Sure is a shame.  

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 6:01:18 PM UTC-8 christian poppell wrote:

> It would be a seat tube change and not the lug. Many tubes for are butted 
> internally so that lugs will fit multiple tube butt thicknesses. 
>
> 28.6mm x .9mm wall (26.8mm ID) vs .7mm (27.2mm ID). 
>
> Christian
> Berkeley, CA
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 4:43:43 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Or available lugs. I don't know how any of this works but all the new Riv 
>> frames with a regular high tobtube (diamond frame) get the same seat lug 
>> now, I suspect it has something to do with the narrower diameter seattube. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 4:28:45 PM UTC-8 Mark Schneider wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder why, I guess I missed that one. Someone more knowledgeable 
>>> probably knows why, something to do with available tubing maybe? 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 3:55:20 PM UTC-8 David Person wrote:
>>>
 I sure wish Riv hadn't changed the seat post diameter from 27.2mm to 
 26.8mm on their frames. Doing so really limits the available seat post 
 options.  One particular suspension seat post I use is only available in 
 27.2mm.  Baffles me why Riv chose to do that.  Glad I got my Hillborne 
 before the change, but rules out an Appaloosa as my next bike.
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/81059998-65b3-4311-9165-f4b14232fed8n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[christian poppell]

It would be a seat tube change and not the lug. Many tubes for are butted 
internally so that lugs will fit multiple tube butt thicknesses. 

28.6mm x .9mm wall (26.8mm ID) vs .7mm (27.2mm ID). 

Christian
Berkeley, CA
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 4:43:43 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Or available lugs. I don't know how any of this works but all the new Riv 
> frames with a regular high tobtube (diamond frame) get the same seat lug 
> now, I suspect it has something to do with the narrower diameter seattube. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 4:28:45 PM UTC-8 Mark Schneider wrote:
>
>> I wonder why, I guess I missed that one. Someone more knowledgeable 
>> probably knows why, something to do with available tubing maybe? 
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 3:55:20 PM UTC-8 David Person wrote:
>>
>>> I sure wish Riv hadn't changed the seat post diameter from 27.2mm to 
>>> 26.8mm on their frames. Doing so really limits the available seat post 
>>> options.  One particular suspension seat post I use is only available in 
>>> 27.2mm.  Baffles me why Riv chose to do that.  Glad I got my Hillborne 
>>> before the change, but rules out an Appaloosa as my next bike.
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7f08c4f9-01b3-4a6c-8276-26b3e3274223n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Joe Bernard]

Or available lugs. I don't know how any of this works but all the new Riv 
frames with a regular high tobtube (diamond frame) get the same seat lug 
now, I suspect it has something to do with the narrower diameter seattube. 

Joe Bernard

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 4:28:45 PM UTC-8 Mark Schneider wrote:

> I wonder why, I guess I missed that one. Someone more knowledgeable 
> probably knows why, something to do with available tubing maybe? 
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 3:55:20 PM UTC-8 David Person wrote:
>
>> I sure wish Riv hadn't changed the seat post diameter from 27.2mm to 
>> 26.8mm on their frames. Doing so really limits the available seat post 
>> options.  One particular suspension seat post I use is only available in 
>> 27.2mm.  Baffles me why Riv chose to do that.  Glad I got my Hillborne 
>> before the change, but rules out an Appaloosa as my next bike.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4d7e4014-6293-4920-92e8-ed05fb03863an%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: A Bit Irked that Riv Changed the Seatpost Size

[Mark Schneider]

I wonder why, I guess I missed that one. Someone more knowledgeable 
probably knows why, something to do with available tubing maybe? 

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 3:55:20 PM UTC-8 David Person wrote:

> I sure wish Riv hadn't changed the seat post diameter from 27.2mm to 
> 26.8mm on their frames. Doing so really limits the available seat post 
> options.  One particular suspension seat post I use is only available in 
> 27.2mm.  Baffles me why Riv chose to do that.  Glad I got my Hillborne 
> before the change, but rules out an Appaloosa as my next bike.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ed9f3ab8-d3f7-46f5-b9e1-99ef4fe5a6dbn%40googlegroups.com.