[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

I rode 90 miles last week, and 120 the week before, so I have been getting 
out and pedaling during the course of this discussion.  As far as merit, I 
think all the discussion may have more merit than the original gripe.  

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Belopsky]

That's because I was on vacay.

As expected, a bit of both sides of the argument. Only ones I think have 
any merit is in regards to tracking.

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 10:55:18 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The OP was mostly about shipping time for gloves, and he hasn't said 
> anything in quite a while. I think it's time to bail on this thing and go 
> ride our bikes this weekend. 

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Joe Bernard]

The OP was mostly about shipping time for gloves, and he hasn't said anything 
in quite a while. I think it's time to bail on this thing and go ride our bikes 
this weekend. 

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Jay Lonner]

At this point it's bandwagon-jumping-on, but I feel that Riv provides 
excellent value, if not the lowest overall price point (although sometimes 
they do). Grant/Riv has informed my cycling in innumerable excellent ways, 
and I regard Riv as my not-really-local LBS in terms of sourcing weirdo 
parts that are considered passe, if not ridiculous, by most local 
businesses and the riders they serve. It's not dissimilar to the premium I 
pay by shopping for groceries at the local co-op, as opposed to Walmart.

I do have my issues with Grant/Riv, but it has nothing to do with pricing 
or shipping and is much more about their reluctance to incorporate 
internally-geared hubs, disc brakes, and the Gates belt drive into their 
designs. I love my Hunq, but if I were buying a new bike today I think I'd 
get an Ogre. But that's a different topic for a different time.

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 5:10:19 PM UTC-7, Dave at Rivendell wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, 
>
> Thanks for some of the more positive suggestions. I wanted to stay out of 
> this and let it fizzle but it's not going away. 
>
> Defending our shipping prices and carrier choices in the age of Amazon is 
> a losing game, and I won't win again this time, but... deep breath... here 
> we go! 
>
> If we ship a $10 order that cost us $5 in goods and $5 in 
> labor/rent/bandwidth/etc. and charge $9 flat rate to ship but it really 
> costs $12 to ship, we just lost $3. This happens sometimes.  Rarely do we 
> get a thank you. We get, "I can't believe you charged me $9."  Sigh... 
> Mondays are the worst!
>
> Next time call or email da...@rivbike.com . For this and any 
> other thing that doesn't really belong on this here fun group. We'll do our 
> best to explain and give you the best options we can. If you agree to no 
> tracking via USPS and a total loss on your end if it's damaged sure 
> we'll send it cheaper, but you have to agree first. It's not an option on 
> the website yes.  Somethings like ferrules are best purchased locally... 
>
> While it's not what we'd prefer, you also don't HAVE to buy from us if you 
> can't afford to pay for shipping. If we have something you can't get 
> elsewhere and your life depends on it, then yes, you might have to pay us 
> to ship it because that costs money, materials and time, and always cost us 
> a lot more than you think. We like to guarantee it arrives too. 
>
> Our local USPS office and services are rubbish, just like many of your 
> local UPS stores and services are rubbish, it depends a lot on where you 
> live and the individuals involved. But we review shipping every few months 
> and offer our best alternatives. Comparing us to other businesses doesn't 
> work out for that and many other reasons. We don't get the same pricing, 
> deals, and service they do. They won't pick up our big loads in their tiny 
> trucks no matter how we beg. USPS reps come by and offer nothing most of 
> the time. On the other hand we've started using FedEx for some frames and 
> bikes this year to prevent increasing those costs via UPS. A small and 
> unnoticed win for our customers. 
>
> Shipping costs go up every year and we are expected to make them go down. 
> We simply cannot stay in business that way. Our shippers lose a little hair 
> every time they see lost money on a package. It's stressful and a major 
> struggle for us, especially when we too see others somehow getting or 
> offering better pricing. We try everything, we batch and moan and threaten 
> to change carriers.  We have meetings and crackdowns. Our shipping rates 
> are as fair-to-you-but-not-us as we can handle, even while occasionally 
> losing money on a package here and there, or dealing with shipping cost 
> complaint emails. 
>
> I take free shipping when I can get it, just like the next guy (almost 
> always from major retailers with generic products and big margins), but in 
> cases where a company charges for shipping, I have a uniquely sympathetic 
> feeling and think of it this way.
>
> If you can't come to terms with paying for shipping costs as the 
> cost-of-shipping, think of it as your carbon tax for shipping a relatively 
> tiny thing across the country/world in a big dirty truck/jet, those things 
> that our cycling trips are supposed to offset.  Or a money-saving 
> convenience fee you pay instead of having to spend more on a bigger order 
> (which is maybe more green than multiple small orders). Or a service fee so 
> you don't have to go downtown on your own steam and purchase locally. Or 
> think of what a bargain $9 is to have your box promptly packed, shipped, 
> and handled by a dozen or so wage-earning people including pilots! in many 
> different businesses and leased locations and have it arrive in a week. 
> Wow, that's neat!  Really spectacular when you think about it. Shipping 
> costs are remarkably cheap. Think what it would cost *you* to travel here 
> and get it. Even neater!  Also out-of-

[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Dave at Rivendell]

Hello everyone, 

Thanks for some of the more positive suggestions. I wanted to stay out of 
this and let it fizzle but it's not going away. 

Defending our shipping prices and carrier choices in the age of Amazon is a 
losing game, and I won't win again this time, but... deep breath... here we 
go! 

If we ship a $10 order that cost us $5 in goods and $5 in 
labor/rent/bandwidth/etc. and charge $9 flat rate to ship but it really 
costs $12 to ship, we just lost $3. This happens sometimes.  Rarely do we 
get a thank you. We get, "I can't believe you charged me $9."  Sigh... 
Mondays are the worst!

Next time call or email d...@rivbike.com. For this and any other thing that 
doesn't really belong on this here fun group. We'll do our best to explain 
and give you the best options we can. If you agree to no tracking via USPS 
and a total loss on your end if it's damaged sure we'll send it 
cheaper, but you have to agree first. It's not an option on the website 
yes.  Somethings like ferrules are best purchased locally... 

While it's not what we'd prefer, you also don't HAVE to buy from us if you 
can't afford to pay for shipping. If we have something you can't get 
elsewhere and your life depends on it, then yes, you might have to pay us 
to ship it because that costs money, materials and time, and always cost us 
a lot more than you think. We like to guarantee it arrives too. 

Our local USPS office and services are rubbish, just like many of your 
local UPS stores and services are rubbish, it depends a lot on where you 
live and the individuals involved. But we review shipping every few months 
and offer our best alternatives. Comparing us to other businesses doesn't 
work out for that and many other reasons. We don't get the same pricing, 
deals, and service they do. They won't pick up our big loads in their tiny 
trucks no matter how we beg. USPS reps come by and offer nothing most of 
the time. On the other hand we've started using FedEx for some frames and 
bikes this year to prevent increasing those costs via UPS. A small and 
unnoticed win for our customers. 

Shipping costs go up every year and we are expected to make them go down. 
We simply cannot stay in business that way. Our shippers lose a little hair 
every time they see lost money on a package. It's stressful and a major 
struggle for us, especially when we too see others somehow getting or 
offering better pricing. We try everything, we batch and moan and threaten 
to change carriers.  We have meetings and crackdowns. Our shipping rates 
are as fair-to-you-but-not-us as we can handle, even while occasionally 
losing money on a package here and there, or dealing with shipping cost 
complaint emails. 

I take free shipping when I can get it, just like the next guy (almost 
always from major retailers with generic products and big margins), but in 
cases where a company charges for shipping, I have a uniquely sympathetic 
feeling and think of it this way.

If you can't come to terms with paying for shipping costs as the 
cost-of-shipping, think of it as your carbon tax for shipping a relatively 
tiny thing across the country/world in a big dirty truck/jet, those things 
that our cycling trips are supposed to offset.  Or a money-saving 
convenience fee you pay instead of having to spend more on a bigger order 
(which is maybe more green than multiple small orders). Or a service fee so 
you don't have to go downtown on your own steam and purchase locally. Or 
think of what a bargain $9 is to have your box promptly packed, shipped, 
and handled by a dozen or so wage-earning people including pilots! in many 
different businesses and leased locations and have it arrive in a week. 
Wow, that's neat!  Really spectacular when you think about it. Shipping 
costs are remarkably cheap. Think what it would cost *you* to travel here 
and get it. Even neater!  Also out-of-staters get out of paying their local 
sales tax when applicable, don't forget that added bonus of paying for 
shipping. 


In the future please contact us directly with shipping questions, 
suggestions, complaints, etc. Not everything has to be duked out public and 
the Bunch can be used for fun stuff where the great community can help. For 
shipping quotes and policies and general malaisey stuff, we've got the 
goods so come to us first. We have the answers you seek. Complaining here 
is maybe more interesting but ultimately unproductive, and complaining to 
me will get you somewhere. I welcome complaints because it gives us a 
chance to understand each other. I might not break, but I might bend a 
little. Never hurts to ask. 

Sincerely, 


Dave Schonenberg
General Manager
Rivendell Bicycle Works
d...@rivbike.com
(925) 933-7304


On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 2:31:35 PM UTC-7, ian m wrote:
>
> People keep mentioning the cost as though that's the main issue. It's not, 
> it's really the choice of shipper. I like what Grant said and generally 
> agree with where he is coming from, b

[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Daniel D.]

sure, but who doesn't use total prices in comparisons?

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:31:04 AM UTC-7, Jon Craig wrote:
>
>
> "Free shipping" is an illusion.  It's not free; it's just bundled into 
> prices.  
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The Rivendell CR720 price is for a bike's worth, Niagra's is for one brake. 
In any case, I think it's clear from some of the comments on this thread, 
and from common sense basic understanding of small business, why Rivendell 
doesn't offer the lowest price available on the internet for many of the 
items it sells. I can even recall certain products (those nice watches) 
where Riv mentioned that yes, you can find these around for less, but how 
about supporting the folks who brought it to your attention in the first 
place. Not an unreasonable request. And about how many of those companies 
have a highly active forum dedicated to a wide range of discussions about 
their designs, products, and services? 

As for shipping, opinions seem to be all over the map. Since Rivendell is 
an internet-based mail order company, it is safe to assume they have 
wrestled with the issue of shipping costs more that once. Also, though the 
term seems to have fallen out of favor, based on Grant's comments, we are 
paying for shipping and handling.

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 2:50:31 PM UTC-4, Skenry wrote:
>
> What parts are cheaper?   I don't see that at all.   Its the parts that 
> you can't get elsewhere that are the deal at Riv and yes they look pretty 
> when you open the box.
>
> Quick example
> Deore Rear Derailleur  $56   or $33 at Jenson
> Tektro CR720  $54 or $18 at Niagra
> Grip Kings $56  or $38 at TreeFort
> B17 standard $130 or $99 at Planet Cyclery
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:20 PM, David Stein  > wrote:
>
>> This allows Rivendell to keep their costs lower too. Most parts are 
>> cheaper at Rivendell then elsewhere if you were to competitve shop or go to 
>> the LBS.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[ian m]

People keep mentioning the cost as though that's the main issue. It's not, 
it's really the choice of shipper. I like what Grant said and generally 
agree with where he is coming from, but it's unfortunate to only side with 
UPS as they tend to be against the sort of employee treatment that he 
mentions. 

Prior to the GWB administration forcing the USPS to pre-fund employee 
pensions (which no other federal agency or private company does) to the 
tune of $5 billion (!) per year, the USPS was essentially the most 
profitable not for profit company in the country. It was disastrous 
legislation for the USPS and most likely due to lobbying from private 
parcel delivery companies like UPS. Who want to charge much more for slower 
service. But that's off-topic for an off-topic thread.

Sure, the costs are justified when shipping via UPS. UPS offers no shipping 
rate reductions to clients unless their volume is HUGE. So it gets passed 
onto the customer since Riv can't afford to take a hit on shipping. No 
brainer. The main point is using USPS first class or priority flat rate 
shipping for those smaller orders would be faster and cheaper for the 
customer, very easy to do with their online service, and I'm sure they 
already pick up and deliver to RBWHQ

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:22:49 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[David Stein]

Buying bike parts from amazon is a whole different story. Those are mostly
from 3rd party sellers, and generally have longer ship times and you pay
for shipping. My point was that big online retailers sell at both very thin
margins and free (or close to free) shipping, because they deal in volumes
in the matter of billions of dollars. Small vendors can usually only pick
one: thin margins or free/cheap shipping, hard to do both, but what do I
know as my only experience is from ebay-ing bike parts and records.

On the price thing, I realize there are better deals on the internet, but I
still feel that Riv prices very competitively for the most part. Cheaper
than full retail, but not as cheap as online discounters. And of course we
like to give Rivendell our money over other vendors :). I can buy a black
brooks b17 for $122 from amazon or $130 from Rivendell, or $135 from REI.
If I was buying one today I'd buy the Rivendell for the extra $8 (though
I'd need to pay $10 shipping or find another $20 to spend to get free
shipping)

Alright, now that Brexit has been brought into the conversation can we
switch to less political topics like helmets, battery lights vs. dynamo,
and bike weight vs. rider weight ;)

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 12:20 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> They won't be commonplace forever. You might look at Brexit as the
> beginning of the end of globalization. Why? In a nutshell, because there
> are limits to growth, and we are hitting them, big time. Sorry to burst
> anybody's bubble, but our kids will not be getting packages delivered via
> Amazon drones.
>
> I do not buy from Amazon as it is my opinion that its business methods
> help destroy local economies. One reason I enjoy supporting Rivendell is
> because of its approach to business. I've expressed this in other threads,
> but please add my voice as someone happy to pay, while I can, something
> even approaching the real cost of shipping, not to mention treating people
> well and trying to pay them a living wage. I rarely need something so
> desperately that I can't afford to wait and order a few things from Riv a
> couple times a year. There is something to be said for anticipation. Half
> the excitement of ordering when I was a kid and Allow 4 to 6 weeks for
> delivery was standard was checking the mailbox every day after a week had
> gone by.
>
>  A year ago last May though, I waited till the last minute to buy my
> youngest brother a birthday gift. We don't get each other birthday
> presents, but I was feeling guilty because I had forgotten to call on his
> birthday the previous several years. I splurged and got him a Granfors
> small forest ax, then paid an obscene amount to have it delivered overnight
> next day Saturday from Riv headquarters completely across the country to my
> bro in Brooklyn (he's not a lumbersexual, his wife's family lives in the
> Berkshires and they spend a lot of time up there). He probably doesn't even
> use it. I still feel a little queasy thinking about the extravagance.
>
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> But they aren't ridiculous expectations when they are commonplace.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Keith Muller  wrote:
>>
>>> You can thank Amazon for the ridiculous expectations that some buyers
>>> have now days!
>>>
>>> Keith "who patiently waits for his package to arrive someday" Muller
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

They won't be commonplace forever. You might look at Brexit as the 
beginning of the end of globalization. Why? In a nutshell, because there 
are limits to growth, and we are hitting them, big time. Sorry to burst 
anybody's bubble, but our kids will not be getting packages delivered via 
Amazon drones.

I do not buy from Amazon as it is my opinion that its business methods help 
destroy local economies. One reason I enjoy supporting Rivendell is because 
of its approach to business. I've expressed this in other threads, but 
please add my voice as someone happy to pay, while I can, something even 
approaching the real cost of shipping, not to mention treating people well 
and trying to pay them a living wage. I rarely need something so 
desperately that I can't afford to wait and order a few things from Riv a 
couple times a year. There is something to be said for anticipation. Half 
the excitement of ordering when I was a kid and Allow 4 to 6 weeks for 
delivery was standard was checking the mailbox every day after a week had 
gone by.

 A year ago last May though, I waited till the last minute to buy my 
youngest brother a birthday gift. We don't get each other birthday 
presents, but I was feeling guilty because I had forgotten to call on his 
birthday the previous several years. I splurged and got him a Granfors 
small forest ax, then paid an obscene amount to have it delivered overnight 
next day Saturday from Riv headquarters completely across the country to my 
bro in Brooklyn (he's not a lumbersexual, his wife's family lives in the 
Berkshires and they spend a lot of time up there). He probably doesn't even 
use it. I still feel a little queasy thinking about the extravagance.

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:10:02 PM UTC-4, Skenry wrote:
>
> But they aren't ridiculous expectations when they are commonplace.
>
>  
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Keith Muller  > wrote:
>
>> You can thank Amazon for the ridiculous expectations that some buyers 
>> have now days!
>>
>> Keith "who patiently waits for his package to arrive someday" Muller
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

some things are exclusive to Rivendell, like quality cork grips and brass 
ferrules.  Don't tell anyone right away, but their cable packages are a 
steal, best price on bike bells, the only one who sells an improved (spare) 
bell spring, chainring options, Mark's rack with a coupon - if you hunt you 
can find bargains and just plain smart accessories (Irish strap) on 
Rivendell.  

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:50:31 PM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:
>
> What parts are cheaper?   I don't see that at all.   Its the parts that 
> you can't get elsewhere that are the deal at Riv and yes they look pretty 
> when you open the box.
>
> Quick example
> Deore Rear Derailleur  $56   or $33 at Jenson
> Tektro CR720  $54 or $18 at Niagra
> Grip Kings $56  or $38 at TreeFort
> B17 standard $130 or $99 at Planet Cyclery
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:20 PM, David Stein  > wrote:
>
>> This allows Rivendell to keep their costs lower too. Most parts are 
>> cheaper at Rivendell then elsewhere if you were to competitve shop or go to 
>> the LBS.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Scott Henry]

What parts are cheaper?   I don't see that at all.   Its the parts that you
can't get elsewhere that are the deal at Riv and yes they look pretty when
you open the box.

Quick example
Deore Rear Derailleur  $56   or $33 at Jenson
Tektro CR720  $54 or $18 at Niagra
Grip Kings $56  or $38 at TreeFort
B17 standard $130 or $99 at Planet Cyclery


On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:20 PM, David Stein  wrote:

> This allows Rivendell to keep their costs lower too. Most parts are
> cheaper at Rivendell then elsewhere if you were to competitve shop or go to
> the LBS.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

I've never found Amazin to be expedious, especially not the bike parts 
vendors there - they're basically ebay without paypal.  Somebody like 
Modern Bike, Jenson, Universal really hump to get parts out the door. 
And agree Rivendell gets them packed and shipped very timely - always the 
same day I order.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Bill Lindsay]

I agree with Patrick Moore.  Unless somebody is made of money, I see 
absolutely no point in making a tiny online order with Rivendell Bicycle 
Works.  You are wasting your money and wasting Rivendell's money. 
 Rivendell tells me that $150 is a good break-even dollar amount.  The 
communication method they use to tell me that is by paying me to place a 
$150 order (aka free shipping).  Offer to pay me to do something and I'll 
think hard about doing that.  Sometimes I'll stock up on some consumable 
item like handlebar tape or a chain, or a cassette, to make it to $150.  If 
all I needed was a $1 set of Silver Shifter washers, I would not pay the $9 
it would cost to ship them.  I get it that it's frustrating when all you 
need is that one little thing and only Rivendell has it, like crochet 
gloves or Nitto struts, or brass ferrules.  Stock up on the stuff that only 
Rivendell sells, get it to $150, and get paid to do it.  Then everybody is 
happy. 

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I think this justifies the cost:
>
>
> "In some companies, I imagine that the shippers are entry-level and often 
> the lowest compensated. It's not that way here. We have two shippers and we 
> treat, and they treat, their jobs as career jobs. Their pay is 45 to 50 
> percent of mine, and even so, there's no fluff--them or me. In return, you 
> get a package packed better than any other company in the world, I believe."
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[David Stein]

This allows Rivendell to keep their costs lower too. Most parts are cheaper
at Rivendell then elsewhere if you were to competitve shop or go to the
LBS. You can't have low margins on what you sell and take a hit on
shipping. Unless you're doing a bazillion dollars of revenue like some big
retailers. I'm always happy to pay for shipping at Rivendell, even though
I'm local - I work the majority of hours they are open and even so it costs
me over $6 to take BART there and back from Oakland. Costs less to drive
but if traffic is shitty it's not worth it.

I do really appreciate the packaging, it's pretty efficient. It's crazy
when I order something small from Amazon and it shows up in a giant box
filled with bubble wrap.

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I think this justifies the cost:
>
>
> "In some companies, I imagine that the shippers are entry-level and often
> the lowest compensated. It's not that way here. We have two shippers and we
> treat, and they treat, their jobs as career jobs. Their pay is 45 to 50
> percent of mine, and even so, there's no fluff--them or me. In return, you
> get a package packed better than any other company in the world, I believe."
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Patrick Moore]

I think this justifies the cost:


"In some companies, I imagine that the shippers are entry-level and often
the lowest compensated. It's not that way here. We have two shippers and we
treat, and they treat, their jobs as career jobs. Their pay is 45 to 50
percent of mine, and even so, there's no fluff--them or me. In return, you
get a package packed better than any other company in the world, I believe."

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Scott Henry]

But they aren't ridiculous expectations when they are commonplace.



On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Keith Muller  wrote:

> You can thank Amazon for the ridiculous expectations that some buyers have
> now days!
>
> Keith "who patiently waits for his package to arrive someday" Muller
>
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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

Ely at Ruthworks, and Randi Jo (bag Fab) also both pack aesthetic and 
cordial packages.  

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Keith Muller]

You can thank Amazon for the ridiculous expectations that some buyers have now 
days!

Keith "who patiently waits for his package to arrive someday" Muller

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Garth]

  Everyone open your windows . . .  . . . ahahahahaahaha.. wink wink 
wink .  . . . 
same as it ever was . . .  gotta just let go and smile :) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMVMbmQBug

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Garth]

   Everyone open your windows . . .  . . . ahahahahaahaha.. wink wink 
wink .  . . . 
same as it ever was . . .  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Grant @ Rivendell]

We always try to listen!
As many with shipping experiences in small businesses have noted, it's a 
continuing source of angst...but we try to do our best. The time spent 
picking and packing a $10 order can be the same or more than for a $200 
order, and although we appreciate any order, when we get one for the brass 
housing ferrules that nobody else has, and maybe a bell, there's a gap btw 
what it costs to get that bad boy in the mail and what the customer hopes 
to spend getting it there.
In some companies, I imagine that the shippers are entry-level and often 
the lowest compensated. It's not that way here. We have two shippers and we 
treat, and they treat, their jobs as career jobs. Their pay is 45 to 50 
percent of mine, and even so, there's no fluff--them or me. In return, you 
get a package packed better than any other company in the world, I believe.
Last week there was something I had to send to a friend. I try to do this 
personal stuff myself, but I was busy. I boxed it up, even cut the box to 
size, and did a perfectly functionally good job of it. But I didn't slice 
the tape before folding it, and my box-bending wasn't crips, and the tape 
held it together asymmetrically. I overtaped it. About an hour later Robert 
brought me the box and held it up to me like it was a birthday cake and 
said, "Uh-uh." I was afraid he'd do that, and it was a shameful moment, but 
it's cool that he puts as much effort into his job as I do into some bikey 
thing I do. I just said, "Sorry..." and he had the grace to not rub it in. 
This may make it seem as though you're paying for fanatical packing, but 
it's not like that. Robt and Jenny are super efficient, too.
Lots of times when the margins are high, shipping costs can be absorbed 
into it, and then...like, the $189 44lb Huffy fat bike I bought and wrote 
about in RR44, the shipping cost was $18 or something. LL Bean charges 
nothing. That doesn't mean their shippers work for nothing or they're 
losing money on it; it just means the selling price can absorb it all.

Anyway, there's only so many words I can write about this without coming 
off like a whiner, and I've got nothing to whine about. This is just a 
chance to thank those of you who have experience in shipping and with our 
shipping and have taken the time to speak up...and then, to try to explain 
some behind-the-scenes stuff.

And finally, yes, agreed, on the need for instant knowing exactly where my 
package is. The days of patiently waiting for the Wells Fargo wagon are 
long gone. Analog shipping may be on the outs, but it's what we've got for 
now, and ... if we get your order by 1pm on a Tuesday, there's a 90 percent 
chance it'll go out that day. 

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 3:22:49 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

I made them a customer, though - I purchase a couple of times/year from 
them, too

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:58:31 AM UTC-5, Jon Craig wrote:
>
> That's their mistake, and that cost them dearly. :(
>
>
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 10:54:01 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> yes and no - I bought a repair stand from Chain Reaction in UK - it was 
>> at their free shipping price level.  They sent it Parcel Force, I had it in 
>> 4 days and it had to cost them $45 to ship it, so they lost money (they 
>> turned around and lowered the price so no one else could do that)
>>
>> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:31:04 AM UTC-5, Jon Craig wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> "Free shipping" is an illusion.  It's not free; it's just bundled into 
>>> prices.  Amazon and it's ilk (mostly just Amazon) has really effed things 
>>> up for anyone smaller.
>>> ...
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Philip Kim]

ahh, yep I live in DC. I've only had this problem living in DC and 
Arlington (suburb of DC).

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 10:22:25 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Phillip, I probably have an advantage that my semi-rural borough has a 
> contract carrier, and she calls me when I have a high-dollar-insured 
> package.  
>
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:04:42 AM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote:
>>
>> Out of around 40 items delivered to me in the last three years via USPS 
>> about 2 went missing. The seller refunded me both time, but not after I 
>> went on a nice goose chase going from Post Office to Post Office and 
>> attempting to figure what happened, and then filing a claim. Super 
>> frustrating for sure. After the last time that happened via Amazon seller, 
>> I just decided to buy most of my components and small knick knacks through 
>> LBS.
>>
>> The worst is actually when I had to pick up items from the Post Office, 
>> because the tracking would say "delivered",  but sat behind the Post Office 
>> counter...
>>
>> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:14:41 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> no offense, but that's an unbelievable delivery failure rate.  In a 15 
>>> years of buying/selling/trading/repairing valuable antique fishing reels, 
>>> only one item was lost, and it came from Canada.  
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Jon Craig]

That's their mistake, and that cost them dearly. :(


On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 10:54:01 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> yes and no - I bought a repair stand from Chain Reaction in UK - it was at 
> their free shipping price level.  They sent it Parcel Force, I had it in 4 
> days and it had to cost them $45 to ship it, so they lost money (they 
> turned around and lowered the price so no one else could do that)
>
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:31:04 AM UTC-5, Jon Craig wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> "Free shipping" is an illusion.  It's not free; it's just bundled into 
>> prices.  Amazon and it's ilk (mostly just Amazon) has really effed things 
>> up for anyone smaller.
>> ...
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

yes and no - I bought a repair stand from Chain Reaction in UK - it was at 
their free shipping price level.  They sent it Parcel Force, I had it in 4 
days and it had to cost them $45 to ship it, so they lost money (they 
turned around and lowered the price so no one else could do that)

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:31:04 AM UTC-5, Jon Craig wrote:
>
> ...
>
> "Free shipping" is an illusion.  It's not free; it's just bundled into 
> prices.  Amazon and it's ilk (mostly just Amazon) has really effed things 
> up for anyone smaller.
> ...
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Jon Craig]

"What he said" + more.:

As the co-owner of a small business (a ton smaller than Rivendell!) I read 
this thread with a little horror.  I know a lot of non-business owners 
think owning a business is some magic that makes shipping cheap; some 
"consumers" even believe shipping is FREE if you own a business.  It's not 
true.  Until you get to a scale a little above Rivendell's size, you don't 
get ANY discounts on shipping.  And until you get way, way, way bigger than 
Rivendell is or ever will be (and bigger than it WANTS to be) ... 
shipping's still "expensive."

"Free shipping" is an illusion.  It's not free; it's just bundled into 
prices.  Amazon and it's ilk (mostly just Amazon) has really effed things 
up for anyone smaller.

As far as UPS vs. USPS...I can't understand why UPS still exists.  USPS 
ships cheaper AND faster.  That's right - not only is shipping an item via 
USPS cheaper...it will also arrive DAYS SOONER than if you'd shipped it 
UPS.  UPS is just riding on the days of them being the only choice.   Yes, 
UPS's tracking is a lot better, but in the end, tracking's cool - but what 
really matters is how much it costs to ship and when it will get there - 
and the answers for those questions with USPS will always be "less" and 
"sooner."

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 10:18:33 AM UTC-4, John A. Bennett wrote:
>
> Rivendell is a small company who often loses money on shipping, and whose 
> retail prices for Made In USA (or Japan or..) would not stand the test of a 
> number-crunching, pencil sharpening accountant. Their mark-ups are very 
> low. 
>
> UPS's tracking service - and refund policy for lost packages - is head & 
> shoulders above the USPS. Answering emails and phone calls from customers 
> concerning the whereabouts of their merchandise is done effectively and 
> quickly (and pleasantly!) when the package was shipped UPS. The information 
> about its exact location is available on-demand. As someone commented, 
> customers now expect that. 
>
> UPS picks up at Rivendell every day at exactly 4PM. The shipping 
> department is a blur of activity from the moment they arrive until the 
> moment Barry, the UPS driver, pulls away. The packages are wrapped with 
> incredible artistry and there is no waste. Diverting individual orders into 
> separate shipping streams is just not feasible with a shipping department 
> of only two people (and only one, when someone goes on vacation). Yes, they 
> could hire more peopleand raise pricesand thenlet the new 
> threads begin! 
>
>
> John Bennett
>
> Former Rivendell Employee
> Portland, Oregon
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 3:22:49 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>>
>> $9 for surepost.
>>
>> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>>
>> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
>> days vis USPS.
>>
>> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>>
>>
>> Thoughts everyone?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

Phillip, I probably have an advantage that my semi-rural borough has a 
contract carrier, and she calls me when I have a high-dollar-insured 
package.  

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:04:42 AM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> Out of around 40 items delivered to me in the last three years via USPS 
> about 2 went missing. The seller refunded me both time, but not after I 
> went on a nice goose chase going from Post Office to Post Office and 
> attempting to figure what happened, and then filing a claim. Super 
> frustrating for sure. After the last time that happened via Amazon seller, 
> I just decided to buy most of my components and small knick knacks through 
> LBS.
>
> The worst is actually when I had to pick up items from the Post Office, 
> because the tracking would say "delivered",  but sat behind the Post Office 
> counter...
>
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:14:41 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> no offense, but that's an unbelievable delivery failure rate.  In a 15 
>> years of buying/selling/trading/repairing valuable antique fishing reels, 
>> only one item was lost, and it came from Canada.  
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[John A. Bennett]

Rivendell is a small company who often loses money on shipping, and whose 
retail prices for Made In USA (or Japan or..) would not stand the test of a 
number-crunching, pencil sharpening accountant. Their mark-ups are very 
low. 

UPS's tracking service - and refund policy for lost packages - is head & 
shoulders above the USPS. Answering emails and phone calls from customers 
concerning the whereabouts of their merchandise is done effectively and 
quickly (and pleasantly!) when the package was shipped UPS. The information 
about its exact location is available on-demand. As someone commented, 
customers now expect that. 

UPS picks up at Rivendell every day at exactly 4PM. The shipping department 
is a blur of activity from the moment they arrive until the moment Barry, 
the UPS driver, pulls away. The packages are wrapped with incredible 
artistry and there is no waste. Diverting individual orders into separate 
shipping streams is just not feasible with a shipping department of only 
two people (and only one, when someone goes on vacation). Yes, they could 
hire more peopleand raise pricesand thenlet the new threads 
begin! 


John Bennett

Former Rivendell Employee
Portland, Oregon





On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 3:22:49 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Philip Kim]

Out of around 40 items delivered to me in the last three years via USPS 
about 2 went missing. The seller refunded me both time, but not after I 
went on a nice goose chase going from Post Office to Post Office and 
attempting to figure what happened, and then filing a claim. Super 
frustrating for sure. After the last time that happened via Amazon seller, 
I just decided to buy most of my components and small knick knacks through 
LBS.

The worst is actually when I had to pick up items from the Post Office, 
because the tracking would say "delivered",  but sat behind the Post Office 
counter...

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:14:41 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> no offense, but that's an unbelievable delivery failure rate.  In a 15 
> years of buying/selling/trading/repairing valuable antique fishing reels, 
> only one item was lost, and it came from Canada.  
>
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 8:09:37 AM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote:
>>
>> I would say 90% of USPS items were delivered to me no problems. Another 
>> 5% I probably had to go to the post office because they didn't deliver due 
>> to snow or flash flooding. The other 5% they just straight up lost.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Scott Henry]

I almost posted this same thread last week with after my small order.

Their shipping prices (and prices in general) and times are kinda high.
They get the money, certainly for things that I can't buy elsewhere but its
kinda hard to justify spending more for the item and then spending more
again to ship it.Yes its their choice to set prices as they will, and
again my choice to order or not.   But USPS Priority has always 100% worked
well for me, shipping and receiving.   The flat rate boxes and envelopes
make it amazingly cheap and easy to get coast to coast in 2 days.

The days of ordering something out of a catalog and seeing 4-6 weeks
delivery times are over.   This is an instant society.
And yes, I know that I am different from most everyone else on this list.
Scott


On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> Ian, if you had bought the Paul components from Modern Bike, Andy would
> have discounted 20% and mailed for free.
>
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:55:58 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>>
>> To offer a comparison, I ordered some service parts from Paul Components,
>> shipping from the same region as Riv, and it's a 3 day transit time to PA
>> via USPS first class, less than $5.
>> The Nitto struts and hardware I ordered from Riv will take 8 days via
>> UPS, $9.
>>
>> Rivendell has a business arrangement with UPS that works for them.  I
> would not expect them to change it.  It has not stopped me from purchasing
> a couple of times every year.
>
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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

Ian, if you had bought the Paul components from Modern Bike, Andy would 
have discounted 20% and mailed for free.  

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 7:55:58 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>
> To offer a comparison, I ordered some service parts from Paul Components, 
> shipping from the same region as Riv, and it's a 3 day transit time to PA 
> via USPS first class, less than $5.
> The Nitto struts and hardware I ordered from Riv will take 8 days via UPS, 
> $9.
>
> Rivendell has a business arrangement with UPS that works for them.  I 
would not expect them to change it.  It has not stopped me from purchasing 
a couple of times every year.   

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

no offense, but that's an unbelievable delivery failure rate.  In a 15 
years of buying/selling/trading/repairing valuable antique fishing reels, 
only one item was lost, and it came from Canada.  

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 8:09:37 AM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> I would say 90% of USPS items were delivered to me no problems. Another 5% 
> I probably had to go to the post office because they didn't deliver due to 
> snow or flash flooding. The other 5% they just straight up lost.
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Philip Kim]

I would say 90% of USPS items were delivered to me no problems. Another 5% 
I probably had to go to the post office because they didn't deliver due to 
snow or flash flooding. The other 5% they just straight up lost.

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[ian m]

To offer a comparison, I ordered some service parts from Paul Components, 
shipping from the same region as Riv, and it's a 3 day transit time to PA 
via USPS first class, less than $5.
The Nitto struts and hardware I ordered from Riv will take 8 days via UPS, 
$9.

I probably could have done more research and ordered the Nitto parts from 
somewhere else, but I like supporting Rivendell even if I don't have a 
number of other things to order at the same time.

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:22:49 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Ron Mc]

USPS has the advantage of working weekends, and I'm suspecting you're 
ordering across the country, which is a long way to truck a package on work 
days only.  I don't begrudge Rivendell anything.  They run very lean and do 
the best for their employees they can.  Their agreement with UPS works for 
them.  
If you want really tedious, some of the larger warehouse and repackage 
vendors can really drive you crazy.  I have my preferences, and don't do 
business with some of the warehouse vendors often praised on this forum 
because I don't like their tedious shipping.  Even service at 
sierratradingpost has gone downhill since they changed hands a few years 
ago.  

Last bike I built included orders from Rivendell, Modern Bike, Ahearne, 
Outside Outfitters, Ben's Cycle, Jenson, VeloFred, Velomine, 
Biketiresdirect, Alex in Japan, CRC in UK, Wiggle in UK - I did my 
homework.  (Universal is also really good, but they didn't have my 
components in stock).  This is kind of my hit list for service effort and 
price break.  Yes, Rivendell has some great prices on many items.  The 
slowest of the bunch is Outside Outfitters, including the offshore vendors. 
 

I'm also with Joe - I keep an active wish list at Rivendell 
(sierratradingpost and wiggle) and watch for suchadeals before I place 
orders.  

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 2:13:00 AM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> To me the $9 is a basic flat rate, and the trick is to wait until you have 
> a decent order together to make the shipping worth it, or bump it past $150 
> for free shipping. 
>
> Rivendell may look like a big operation online, but it's really just some 
> folks in a building selling eclectic bike stuff at prices/shipping they can 
> manage. 
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Joe Bernard]

To me the $9 is a basic flat rate, and the trick is to wait until you have a 
decent order together to make the shipping worth it, or bump it past $150 for 
free shipping. 

Rivendell may look like a big operation online, but it's really just some folks 
in a building selling eclectic bike stuff at prices/shipping they can manage. 

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[drew]

No no that quote would be what I would say if I were them. 

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Hugh Smitham]

Never had a problem with shipping USPS ever. I can't say the same of Fedex. 
Maybe it's different for a business. USPS has decent tracking the last time 
I used there services. They've never delayed or lost anything so I don't 
know what they're like to run a claim through. The 9$ does seem high for 
such small items but if it's going to the East coast? In terms of time if 
it shipped today that's six days including Saturday which seems like a bit 
long. 

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 3:22:49 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Lungimsam]

Did RBW say that?

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[drew]

I've never had an issue with usps. I always thought this was a "we are a small 
business and it isn't financially viable to encourage small purchases that we 
then have to ship out." 

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Re: [RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[David Hallerman]

Of course, as the original poster noted, his package was being shipped 
via "Surepost" -- which literally does split the shipment between UPS 
(first) and USPS (second) and does not manage the differences between 
the two. (I know, Minh, you meant something else by "managing the 
differences.")


So in the end, Surepost also relies on the USPS, but just costs more.

Not a great method since it offers the greater cost of UPS with the 
lesser speed of USPS First Class (not Priority).



On 6/23/16 7:43 PM, Minh wrote:
While i agree with your basic premise, if i were running a company and 
shipped a lot, it would be more efficient just to send everything by 
one shipper (in this case UPS) instead of splitting between USPS and 
UPS and managing the differences between the two.  By the estimate i 
assume you are on the east coast as that's how long a package from RBW 
takes to get to me via UPS ground.


So i don't have a problem with this but i've been ordering from them 
for years and take this into account when ordering.  They also have a 
web page where they lay out in detail what to expect in terms of 
shipping, http://www.rivbike.com/help_answer.asp?ID=11#278, so if that 
doesn't work for you then you don't order from them, i feel that RBW 
have always been ok with people buying from other places if it makes 
more sense (closer to you, local etc).



On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:22:49 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:

Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..

$9 for surepost.

And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?

All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here
in 3 days vis USPS.

Grant, hope you and others are listening.


Thoughts everyone?

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Eric Karnes]

Agreed. I won't ship anything via USPS anymore. A few months back, they 
managed to loose three out of four of my packages within the space of three 
weeks. The first two were from Amazon and they refunded my money. But the 
third was from a small mail order shop who wouldn't (and likely couldn't 
afford to) refund the order and suggested I call USPS. I've submitted 
forms, talked with them on the phone, sent tons of emails with the tracking 
number. Nothing. 75 dollars down the drain.

I don't think this is really Riv's fault. I've found they always pack and 
ship promptly (though my stuff has usually come via UPS). And in the end, 
I'd prefer a nine day wait and have it actually get to me than a 25% chance 
of it showing up in three.

Eric

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:42:54 PM UTC-4, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
> I work for a company that does internet and mail-order. We don't use USPS 
> for much of anything unless the customer signs off on it because even when 
> you have a tracking and guarantee they're not worth much if the package 
> gets lost or delayed, and delayed packages are much more the norm than not 
> when we do use them. UPS and FedEx cost more, but their tracking works and 
> they have much more accountability when something goes wrong. If Riv's 
> experience has been similar in the least I don't blame them for choosing 
> safe but expensive, I'd do the same thing.
>
> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:22:49 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>>
>> $9 for surepost.
>>
>> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>>
>> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
>> days vis USPS.
>>
>> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>>
>>
>> Thoughts everyone?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[dstein]

Did you contact Rivendell? They're very responsive and will listen to 
feedback. Won't do anything for your oder in transit but that's the best 
place to get your voice heard for customer feedback.

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Belopsky]

Good points thus far, but I still believe USPS is a good additional service 
for Riv to use. I've always had great experience. I just hope my gloves 
come sooner than estimated, as I leave for a trip July 1st..,a little too 
close for comfort but unfortunately no one else seems to have the crochet 
gloves that will arrive sooner either

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[ian m]

I too worked shipping/receiving for an e-commerce company for a number of 
years in addition to frequent purchasing of goods online (mostly records) 
like most of us in the past decade.

UPS/FedEx and the like are necessary for our post-Amazon web buyer. Most 
online shoppers now MUST now when their package will ship, when it does 
ship, and where it is any and every moment prior to it arriving at their 
doorstep. Which is a sad, sad reality. I've never been so frustrated as I 
have in dealing with either company (primarily UPS) and their terrible 
customer service and general lack of interest in the state in which your 
package arrives. But they track well and will pay out insurance IF AND ONLY 
IF you pay for it above $100. Not sure of Riv's policy for such but I 
imagine they have to declare the value of bikes being shipped because the 
alternative is a nightmare. I'm sure it's passed along. Delayed packages 
though, hoo boy. Good luck getting a package on time with UPS in the 
holiday season, especially if there is poor weather. They don't pay out for 
that even on "guaranteed" 1-day, 2-day, &c shipments.

USPS has always been perfectly fine in my experience. Records are 
notoriously fragile items and I have received some very shoddily packaged 
with no problems. Of course, others have different experiences. But for the 
price and the speed they can't be beat. Never had to deal with a claim 
through them so can't speak to that.

I do wish Riv and similar offered the option of a slower USPS method but at 
some point it stops being worth it for them to jump through the hoops, 
which can also be said for those of us buying a few small things to support 
them and waiting 8 days because we live across the country (imagine the 
horror of living abroad!). But such is life.


On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:22:49 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Minh]

While i agree with your basic premise, if i were running a company and 
shipped a lot, it would be more efficient just to send everything by one 
shipper (in this case UPS) instead of splitting between USPS and UPS and 
managing the differences between the two.  By the estimate i assume you are 
on the east coast as that's how long a package from RBW takes to get to me 
via UPS ground.  

So i don't have a problem with this but i've been ordering from them for 
years and take this into account when ordering.  They also have a web page 
where they lay out in detail what to expect in terms of shipping, 
http://www.rivbike.com/help_answer.asp?ID=11#278, so if that doesn't work 
for you then you don't order from them, i feel that RBW have always been ok 
with people buying from other places if it makes more sense (closer to you, 
local etc).  


On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:22:49 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Zed Martinez]

I work for a company that does internet and mail-order. We don't use USPS 
for much of anything unless the customer signs off on it because even when 
you have a tracking and guarantee they're not worth much if the package 
gets lost or delayed, and delayed packages are much more the norm than not 
when we do use them. UPS and FedEx cost more, but their tracking works and 
they have much more accountability when something goes wrong. If Riv's 
experience has been similar in the least I don't blame them for choosing 
safe but expensive, I'd do the same thing.

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:22:49 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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