Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-08 Thread 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch 
Thanks for the great suggestions everyone. Jan, it is the front brake.  I wrote 
Mitch at MAP and BQ. Theo (from BQ for those who don't know) and Mitch both 
answered me very quickly. Mitch was kind enough to file a set of washers for me 
and he just sent them today with my decaleur (just back from being chromed) and 
Berthoud handlebar bag. But before installing them I'm going to try riding in 
the rain with some good hard braking. I'll post here with what works. Also, I 
just want to say how great it is to do business with folks like Mitch, BQ and 
Rivendell. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-08 Thread Steve Palincsar 
I have bolt-on RAIDs on my Kogswell P/R.  The back brake does squeal 
sometimes.  To fix, I squirt the rim with water from a water bottle, 
then go ride a bit with the brake on.  I believe what's happening is oil 
or something like it (handling the rim changing a flat tire will induce 
it for sure, so maybe chain oil or finger oil) gets on the rim in 
places; wetting the rim and running the wheel with the brake on wipes 
the oil off.


I've also found that having the brake pad at an angle vertically with 
respect to the brake track will cause squealing, and that's one degree 
of freedom that is definitely present with the Mafac design.


On 04/08/2016 04:21 PM, Jan Heine wrote:
Tim, sorry to hear that your Compass brakes are squealing so much. We 
are trying to figure out why they are totally silent on most bikes 
after a short break-in, but squeal persistently on a very small number 
of bikes. We have a few hypotheses that we are testing. It's a bit 
hard, since none of our bikes squeal - but we live in rainy Seattle. 
And we never use our rear brakes except when we encounter very slick 
roads. You can read about why using the rear brake doesn't help 
slowing down here 
. (https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/how-to-brake-on-a-bicycle/) 



So my question: Is it the front or the rear that is squealing?

My first remedy would be as suggested by another reader: Get the rims 
wet, and then brake very hard. Don't hesitate - if you have decent 
tires, apply the front brake very hard. Of course, brace yourself as 
described in the article above. It's a good skill to practice, and in 
99% of the cases, it'll quieten your front brake totally.


If that doesn't help, I second Will's suggestion to file the washers. 
That way, you'll get a permanent solution, as the toe-in will remain 
set even after changing pads. So you won't have to fiddle with it ever 
again. If you mess up, the washers are available and don't cost much.


You can also file the pads, but the drawback is that you'll have to do 
it again every time you change the brake pads. And you have to remove 
more material - the washers just need very little removed to get a 
toe-in of about 1 mm at the front of the pad (i.e., the rear of the 
pad should be 1 mm clear of the rim). If you file too much, and get up 
to 4 mm, it's not a problem. But filing the pads also is an option.


One good thing about centerpulls compared to cantis is that pad wear 
doesn't bring back the squeal, as the pads wear parallel to the rim. 
Cantis see a lot of fork blade twist, and so their pads lose their 
toe-in as they wear.


Brake squeal is very annoying - I recall a number of /Bicycle 
Quarterly/ test bikes with various Paul brakes that had persistent 
squeal. However, their squeal has a higher pitch, so it's not quite as 
annoying... I hope you'll resolve the issue soon. If not, don't 
hesitate to contact me, and we'll work with you on this. I know that 
your bike can be silent, and that is how it should be!


Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles Ltd.
www.compasscycle.com 

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 8:27:47 AM UTC+9, Tim wrote:

Not to hijack the thread but...I just got my custom MAP with
Compass centerpulls and I have a question. Will the front break
stop squealing like a banshee after they break in a bit?!?!? I'm
using them with HED Belgium 650b rims (brand new). I've only been
riding it about a week. Probably around 100 miles. With light
pressure there is no noise but with moderate to hard pressure they
squeal so loud that they turn heads. It's been like that from the
get go. It really kind of sucks. Any ideas?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-08 Thread Jan Heine 
Tim, sorry to hear that your Compass brakes are squealing so much. We are 
trying to figure out why they are totally silent on most bikes after a 
short break-in, but squeal persistently on a very small number of bikes. We 
have a few hypotheses that we are testing. It's a bit hard, since none of 
our bikes squeal - but we live in rainy Seattle. And we never use our rear 
brakes except when we encounter very slick roads. You can read about why 
using the rear brake doesn't help slowing down here 
. 
(https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/how-to-brake-on-a-bicycle/)

So my question: Is it the front or the rear that is squealing?

My first remedy would be as suggested by another reader: Get the rims wet, 
and then brake very hard. Don't hesitate - if you have decent tires, apply 
the front brake very hard. Of course, brace yourself as described in the 
article above. It's a good skill to practice, and in 99% of the cases, 
it'll quieten your front brake totally.

If that doesn't help, I second Will's suggestion to file the washers. That 
way, you'll get a permanent solution, as the toe-in will remain set even 
after changing pads. So you won't have to fiddle with it ever again. If you 
mess up, the washers are available and don't cost much.

You can also file the pads, but the drawback is that you'll have to do it 
again every time you change the brake pads. And you have to remove more 
material - the washers just need very little removed to get a toe-in of 
about 1 mm at the front of the pad (i.e., the rear of the pad should be 1 
mm clear of the rim). If you file too much, and get up to 4 mm, it's not a 
problem. But filing the pads also is an option.

One good thing about centerpulls compared to cantis is that pad wear 
doesn't bring back the squeal, as the pads wear parallel to the rim. Cantis 
see a lot of fork blade twist, and so their pads lose their toe-in as they 
wear.

Brake squeal is very annoying - I recall a number of *Bicycle Quarterly* 
test bikes with various Paul brakes that had persistent squeal. However, 
their squeal has a higher pitch, so it's not quite as annoying... I hope 
you'll resolve the issue soon. If not, don't hesitate to contact me, and 
we'll work with you on this. I know that your bike can be silent, and that 
is how it should be!

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles Ltd.
www.compasscycle.com

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 8:27:47 AM UTC+9, Tim wrote:
>
> Not to hijack the thread but...I just got my custom MAP with Compass 
> centerpulls and I have a question. Will the front break stop squealing like 
> a banshee after they break in a bit?!?!? I'm using them with HED Belgium 
> 650b rims (brand new). I've only been riding it about a week. Probably 
> around 100 miles. With light pressure there is no noise but with moderate 
> to hard pressure they squeal so loud that they turn heads. It's been like 
> that from the get go. It really kind of sucks. Any ideas?

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-08 Thread Ryan Fleming 
to be honest I'm not really sure which way Grant is going to go with 
this...I'm OK with either

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:37:30 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Of course there is Ryan, aesthetics!! Post-mounted centre pulls are the 
> epitome of bike bling 
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:00:20 PM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> Hi Shoji...you're right...those Paul folks think of everything...I'm 
>> getting the center mount on my mixte...I live in the flatlands and  I feel 
>> there is no real functional   advantage to me to get braze-on mounted 
>> centerpulls
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:16:34 PM UTC-5, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 for Shimano CX70 cantilever brakes. I have 'em on my Hunqapillar, 
>>> swapping out Tektro CR720s. CX70 are easier to set up and stop the bike 
>>> quicker (when I want that feature). I used standard straddle cables instead 
>>> of the quicklink(?). 
>>>
>>> Paul centerpulls are available for center mount (i.e., no special braze 
>>> on required) or braze-on mount. Ocean Air Cycles's Rambler uses the Paul 
>>> braze-on mounted centerpulls. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:01:55 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:

 If you're going for cantis I think you won't do much better than 
 these...they work great

 http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/brc3.htm 

 For centerpulls...those old Mafac Racers are excellent brakes and no 
 braze-ons required;  Paul centerpulls don't need braze-ons either as far 
 as 
 I know

 On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:11:45 AM UTC-5, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Right now I don't want to get the Compass brakes. Just wondering if 
> anyone here uses them on their Rivs.
>
> I am more interested in cantis for my next bike, unless there is a 
> compelling reason to go with cpulls.
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Lungimsam 
Tim,

Sometimes the first ride in the rain, or throwing some water on rims and pads 
and  ride around using brakes should help them bed in and make the squeal stop.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Braxton Colagross 
Perhaps the position on the fork makes the difference? Canti posts would be 
lower than center pull posts. 

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:00:30 PM UTC-7, Justin August wrote:
>
> A few years ago when I inquired about Paul Racer braze-ons on a Hilsen I 
> was told "no" by Riv due to fork/seatstay thickness issues. Since they have 
> hinted at being willing to do cantis on Hilsen frames that seems to have 
> changed. Perhaps they changed tubing specs or got similar tubing with less 
> manufacturer restrictions. Perhaps now you could ask to have Paul or 
> Compass braze-ons. Someone should check.
>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread William deRosset 


On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 7:26:01 AM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Which model/s do they fit?


None from stock. You can find a set of RAIDs or at least a RAID yoke to 
bolt 'em on, but otherwise, it is a new paint job and torch work.

Best,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread William deRosset 
Dear Tim,

If they're squealing now after 100mi, and a short shot with a flat file on 
the pads to get a fresh surface + an alcohol wipe of the rim doesn't fix 
it, then no: The front brake will not stop squealing until it wears in the 
slop in the pivot bushing. And they are very, very loud. 

This won't take long, actually, as squeal (which is high-frequency brake 
shudder) wears pads dramatically. I can remember braking down one steep 
hill before I toed in a set of MAFAC competitions (which have more play in 
the pivots than the Compass Brakes typically do), and watching/smelling 
material fly off off the pad. My ears rang after that particular braking 
experience, and I took a crescent wrench to the arms to cold-set enough 
toe-in to offset the play shortly thereafter. They've been silent since.

Take a deep breath, grab a round file of the correct diameter (I think it 
is 1/4"), and file the washer with two indents in it to set the leading 
(TOE) edge of the brake in contact with the rim before the trailing edge. 
The amount you'll need to file will depend on how much angular play there 
is in the pivot, but the Compass pivots are pretty carefully matched to the 
brake bushings, and it shouldn't be much if the pivots are brazed 
accurately. The objective is to get the pad to contact the rim parallel 
under hard braking, when the rotation of the rim tends to take up the 
angular play in the bushing and press the heel of the pad into the rim 
before the toe. Start by setting the toe-in to a dime's width (put the dime 
under the heel of the pad, and file the inner contact point of the washer 
until the pad toe contacts the rim; alternatively, just use a crescent 
wrench to carefully cold-set (bend) the lower arm to achieve the necessary 
toe-in.

Good luck. My Compass brakes have been silent for a year now, and I haven't 
had to tinker with toe-in etc, but I am not using the lovely Compass pad 
holders nor their brake pads, as they were not supplied to me--they were 
out of stock, apparently. My MAFACs have all had a lot of play, and have 
required pretty heavy toe-in (with the exception of the Alex Singer, which 
was consistently silent) to prevent squeal and excessive pad wear. Braze-on 
pivots are a big step up, assuming they're very straight and placed 
properly.

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 5:27:47 PM UTC-6, Tim wrote:
>
> Not to hijack the thread but...I just got my custom MAP with Compass 
> centerpulls and I have a question. Will the front break stop squealing like 
> a banshee after they break in a bit?!?!? I'm using them with HED Belgium 
> 650b rims (brand new). I've only been riding it about a week. Probably 
> around 100 miles. With light pressure there is no noise but with moderate 
> to hard pressure they squeal so loud that they turn heads. It's been like 
> that from the get go. It really kind of sucks. Any ideas?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread ted 
I experimented with a Raid front brake on my AHH, and experienced fairly 
persistent squeal. Jan writes that the Compass brakes stop squealing after 
a few rainy rides, but living in the SF area (ie rains almost never) I 
wasn't much comforted by that.  My impression is that both cantilevers and 
Raid/Compass brakes are quite sensitive to the orientation of the pads on 
the rim. Also that said orientation depends on how the brake is sitting on 
the post. To get things right I unhook the springs, pinch the brakes to the 
rim and put some forward rotation torque on the wheel. I get the pads 
square and tangent to the rim in that situation. Of course getting the toe 
in just right was a bit hit and miss. My approach involved taking a 
crescent wrench to the arm right below the pad holder. That sort of worked 
but I never got it just right. I was able to get it to work quietly for a 
bit but after a while the squeal would return. I eventually got a set of 
adjustable toe shoes from VO with which I have not had trouble with 
squealing. I wore out the pads that came with the shoes and replaced them 
with Yokozuna pads from RBW. Still no noise. I suspect that the thinner 
modern pads are less prone to squealing than the much thicker, and of 
course longer wearing, pads that Compass sells. Could be completely wrong 
about that though.
As Bill suggested its probably worth contacting Jan for advice.
Hope you can get yours sorted out. Must be very frustrating.

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 4:27:47 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:
>
> Not to hijack the thread but...I just got my custom MAP with Compass 
> centerpulls and I have a question. Will the front break stop squealing like 
> a banshee after they break in a bit?!?!? I'm using them with HED Belgium 
> 650b rims (brand new). I've only been riding it about a week. Probably 
> around 100 miles. With light pressure there is no noise but with moderate 
> to hard pressure they squeal so loud that they turn heads. It's been like 
> that from the get go. It really kind of sucks. Any ideas?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Bill Lindsay 
Jan claims they are 'self-toeing' and quiet down after 'a few rides'.  I 
had M.A.F.A.C. Racer posts brazed onto a frameset as a low-cost test to see 
if I would prefer braze-on centerpulls for a hypothetical custom in the 
future.  They squeal like a banshee, and since I have several bikes, it's 
kind of hard to force myself through the break-in period.  Presumably Mitch 
has done lots of bikes with those brakes, so hopefully he can give you 
advice.  Jan maybe can give you advice as well.  I've heard of people 
filing the base washers as a way to achieve toe-in, but I'd be reluctant to 
do that until somebody definitively tells you that is the thing to do.  

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 4:27:47 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:
>
> Not to hijack the thread but...I just got my custom MAP with Compass 
> centerpulls and I have a question. Will the front break stop squealing like 
> a banshee after they break in a bit?!?!? I'm using them with HED Belgium 
> 650b rims (brand new). I've only been riding it about a week. Probably 
> around 100 miles. With light pressure there is no noise but with moderate 
> to hard pressure they squeal so loud that they turn heads. It's been like 
> that from the get go. It really kind of sucks. Any ideas?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch 
Not to hijack the thread but...I just got my custom MAP with Compass 
centerpulls and I have a question. Will the front break stop squealing like a 
banshee after they break in a bit?!?!? I'm using them with HED Belgium 650b 
rims (brand new). I've only been riding it about a week. Probably around 100 
miles. With light pressure there is no noise but with moderate to hard pressure 
they squeal so loud that they turn heads. It's been like that from the get go. 
It really kind of sucks. Any ideas?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Lungimsam 
Once I saw an Atlantis with fenders and non-adjustable rack in my LBS.

I saw all the open space between the tire and fork crown and thought how easy 
it must be to mount fenders and non-adjustable rack on a canti-bike.

This after installing vo rando rack and honjos on a sidepull bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Justin August 
A few years ago when I inquired about Paul Racer braze-ons on a Hilsen I 
was told "no" by Riv due to fork/seatstay thickness issues. Since they have 
hinted at being willing to do cantis on Hilsen frames that seems to have 
changed. Perhaps they changed tubing specs or got similar tubing with less 
manufacturer restrictions. Perhaps now you could ask to have Paul or 
Compass braze-ons. Someone should check.

-Justin

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:51:14 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 04/05/2016 10:15 AM, William R. wrote: 
> > There are many more knowing members here who can correct me if I'm 
> > wrong... But, I'm fairly sure that none of the stock Rivs are 
> > compatible with the Compass centerpulls. 
>
> Not without having a frame builder braze the posts on, no. 
>
>
> > With that said, I'm sure you could have any of the Waterford built 
> > Rivs: Hilsen, Roadeo and Atlantis (or a custom) built with the Compass 
> > centerpull posts in the position that they require to install the 
> > brakes. Riv would need to be willing to do it of course. 
>
> I doubt very much you could get that kind of custom work on a stock 
> model like the Hilsen, Atlantis or Roadeo.  Part of the economies of 
> scale that keep the prices on these stock frames below one-off customs 
> is the standardization and possibility of batch mode production, and no 
> way is that compatible with custom mounting of unique brake braze-ons.   
> However, any knowledgeable frame builder could do it.  It would cost 
> you, though, because not only do you have to remove the old canti posts 
> and braze new ones on for the centerpull brakes, you also would have to 
> repaint the frame. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Steve Palincsar 



On 04/05/2016 11:21 AM, Kieran J wrote:
I think it's fair to say that the Compass brakes are almost 
exclusively geared towards custom frames.


True, because they don't include the backing plate, and so are intended 
for braze-on use only.  However, as has been noted before, frame 
builders who have installed brazed on Mafac RAIDs may have some of those 
backing plates available, just sitting around in their shops.  When this 
came up on the iBOB list a few months ago, someone responded with a set 
in moments.


But if you're looking for a bolt-on centerpull for use with 650B wheels, 
I suggest you go for a set of Mafac RAIDs.  Thanks to the Compass 
brakes' availability, the price of RAIDs on ebay has stabilized.




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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Steve Palincsar 



On 04/05/2016 10:15 AM, William R. wrote:
There are many more knowing members here who can correct me if I'm 
wrong... But, I'm fairly sure that none of the stock Rivs are 
compatible with the Compass centerpulls.


Not without having a frame builder braze the posts on, no.


With that said, I'm sure you could have any of the Waterford built 
Rivs: Hilsen, Roadeo and Atlantis (or a custom) built with the Compass 
centerpull posts in the position that they require to install the 
brakes. Riv would need to be willing to do it of course.


I doubt very much you could get that kind of custom work on a stock 
model like the Hilsen, Atlantis or Roadeo.  Part of the economies of 
scale that keep the prices on these stock frames below one-off customs 
is the standardization and possibility of batch mode production, and no 
way is that compatible with custom mounting of unique brake braze-ons.  
However, any knowledgeable frame builder could do it.  It would cost 
you, though, because not only do you have to remove the old canti posts 
and braze new ones on for the centerpull brakes, you also would have to 
repaint the frame.



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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Mark Reimer 
Of course there is Ryan, aesthetics!! Post-mounted centre pulls are the 
epitome of bike bling 


On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:00:20 PM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> Hi Shoji...you're right...those Paul folks think of everything...I'm 
> getting the center mount on my mixte...I live in the flatlands and  I feel 
> there is no real functional   advantage to me to get braze-on mounted 
> centerpulls
>
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:16:34 PM UTC-5, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>>
>> +1 for Shimano CX70 cantilever brakes. I have 'em on my Hunqapillar, 
>> swapping out Tektro CR720s. CX70 are easier to set up and stop the bike 
>> quicker (when I want that feature). I used standard straddle cables instead 
>> of the quicklink(?). 
>>
>> Paul centerpulls are available for center mount (i.e., no special braze 
>> on required) or braze-on mount. Ocean Air Cycles's Rambler uses the Paul 
>> braze-on mounted centerpulls. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:01:55 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>>
>>> If you're going for cantis I think you won't do much better than 
>>> these...they work great
>>>
>>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/brc3.htm 
>>>
>>> For centerpulls...those old Mafac Racers are excellent brakes and no 
>>> braze-ons required;  Paul centerpulls don't need braze-ons either as far as 
>>> I know
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:11:45 AM UTC-5, Lungimsam wrote:

 Right now I don't want to get the Compass brakes. Just wondering if 
 anyone here uses them on their Rivs.

 I am more interested in cantis for my next bike, unless there is a 
 compelling reason to go with cpulls.

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Ryan Fleming 
Hi Shoji...you're right...those Paul folks think of everything...I'm 
getting the center mount on my mixte...I live in the flatlands and  I feel 
there is no real functional   advantage to me to get braze-on mounted 
centerpulls

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:16:34 PM UTC-5, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>
> +1 for Shimano CX70 cantilever brakes. I have 'em on my Hunqapillar, 
> swapping out Tektro CR720s. CX70 are easier to set up and stop the bike 
> quicker (when I want that feature). I used standard straddle cables instead 
> of the quicklink(?). 
>
> Paul centerpulls are available for center mount (i.e., no special braze on 
> required) or braze-on mount. Ocean Air Cycles's Rambler uses the Paul 
> braze-on mounted centerpulls. 
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:01:55 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> If you're going for cantis I think you won't do much better than 
>> these...they work great
>>
>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/brc3.htm 
>>
>> For centerpulls...those old Mafac Racers are excellent brakes and no 
>> braze-ons required;  Paul centerpulls don't need braze-ons either as far as 
>> I know
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:11:45 AM UTC-5, Lungimsam wrote:
>>>
>>> Right now I don't want to get the Compass brakes. Just wondering if 
>>> anyone here uses them on their Rivs.
>>>
>>> I am more interested in cantis for my next bike, unless there is a 
>>> compelling reason to go with cpulls.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Garth 

Look at BQ as a "magazine" in support of their preferences for bikes. 
So of course they are going to sell what suits their preferences, just like 
Riv and every other manufacturer, seller etc. does. It's natural to do 
this. So of course what's written is going be about why they prefer what 
they do, here is our preference in action (evidence) in words and pictures 
to support our identity. 

  Alright, great. These are just one way though, one set of preferences. 
Yea, nay ... so what ?  what say I ? Intelligence is universal, it belongs 
to one, any more than air. What I prefer is as important what you think and 
anyone can prefer. 

  I'm not saying anything you don't already know , I couldn't. 


Me, I like "old school" canti's, the ones with the smooth post.  Some may 
consider these hard to adjust, I consider them the easiest . I've always 
found them simple since I first used them back in the early 80's.  Canti 
posts are not always in the exact same position on all bikes though. Think 
about it, every bike has different fork blade and seat stay widths. I love 
Suntour XC Pro canti's on one bike that has narrower mount widths and it's 
the best setup I've ever encountered myself. The same brakes on the 
Bombadil with a much wider mount width these brakes are just geometrically 
"poor", the best way I can describe it. The can't be set up in the same 
optimal position as my other bike due to the low profile shape of the arms. 
No biggie, I use another brake , and mid-wide profile Shimano from the 
early 80's. Purrfect . 

 So no matter the bike there is a great brake for it. If one doesn't seem 
"right" it doesn't limit you as there are many others. I prefer the ones 
from 80's 90's myself and have spent at most $20 on them :)  One man's 
trash is another's treasure :)   



On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:11:45 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Right now I don't want to get the Compass brakes. Just wondering if anyone 
> here uses them on their Rivs.
>
> I am more interested in cantis for my next bike, unless there is a 
> compelling reason to go with cpulls.
>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Shoji Takahashi 
+1 for Shimano CX70 cantilever brakes. I have 'em on my Hunqapillar, 
swapping out Tektro CR720s. CX70 are easier to set up and stop the bike 
quicker (when I want that feature). I used standard straddle cables instead 
of the quicklink(?). 

Paul centerpulls are available for center mount (i.e., no special braze on 
required) or braze-on mount. Ocean Air Cycles's Rambler uses the Paul 
braze-on mounted centerpulls. 




On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:01:55 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> If you're going for cantis I think you won't do much better than 
> these...they work great
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/brc3.htm 
>
> For centerpulls...those old Mafac Racers are excellent brakes and no 
> braze-ons required;  Paul centerpulls don't need braze-ons either as far as 
> I know
>
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:11:45 AM UTC-5, Lungimsam wrote:
>>
>> Right now I don't want to get the Compass brakes. Just wondering if 
>> anyone here uses them on their Rivs.
>>
>> I am more interested in cantis for my next bike, unless there is a 
>> compelling reason to go with cpulls.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Ryan Fleming 
If you're going for cantis I think you won't do much better than 
these...they work great

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/brc3.htm 

For centerpulls...those old Mafac Racers are excellent brakes and no 
braze-ons required;  Paul centerpulls don't need braze-ons either as far as 
I know

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:11:45 AM UTC-5, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Right now I don't want to get the Compass brakes. Just wondering if anyone 
> here uses them on their Rivs.
>
> I am more interested in cantis for my next bike, unless there is a 
> compelling reason to go with cpulls.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Eric Norris 
If you want to get a feel for what the Compass brakes are like, find a set of 
Mafac Racers, which were the inspiration for the Compass model (many parts are 
interchangeable). The Racers come in a version that will mount to pretty much 
any Riv frame. 

I have Racers on two bikes, and like them a lot. Alex Singer used the braze-on 
version on many of their bikes, which is itself a testament to their quality. 

–Eric N


> On Apr 5, 2016, at 9:11 AM, Lungimsam  wrote:
> 
> Right now I don't want to get the Compass brakes. Just wondering if anyone 
> here uses them on their Rivs.
> 
> I am more interested in cantis for my next bike, unless there is a compelling 
> reason to go with cpulls.
> 
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Lungimsam 
Right now I don't want to get the Compass brakes. Just wondering if anyone here 
uses them on their Rivs.

I am more interested in cantis for my next bike, unless there is a compelling 
reason to go with cpulls.

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Kieran J 
I think it's fair to say that the Compass brakes are almost exclusively 
geared towards custom frames. 
If you are dying to put some long-reach centrepulls on a Riv, use the Pauls.

KJ


On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 10:24:32 AM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Wow. Sounds like a niche of a niche boutique item.

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Shoji Takahashi 
Compass centerpulls require special braze ons, so they won't fit on 
off-the-shelf Riv models. You might be able to get them on certain customs 
(which I think was mentioned in a Blug post). They might fit on adapters 
(Mafac?) to permit them to fit on center mounts. 

shoji


On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:26:01 AM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Which model/s do they fit?

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread Lungimsam 
Wow. Sounds like a niche of a niche boutique item.

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[RBW] Re: Anyone using Compass centerpulls on thie Rivendell?

2016-04-05 Thread William R. 
There are many more knowing members here who can correct me if I'm wrong... 
But, I'm fairly sure that none of the stock Rivs are compatible with the 
Compass centerpulls. With that said, I'm sure you could have any of the 
Waterford built Rivs: Hilsen, Roadeo and Atlantis (or a custom) built with 
the Compass centerpull posts in the position that they require to install 
the brakes. Riv would need to be willing to do it of course. They are 
offering to build Hilsens for instance, with canti posts for a small up 
charge. Maybe it would involve a little more work to set the Compass posts 
up properly. One might need to purchase the brakes and posts and send to 
the builder to get everything right. Most existing Riv frames could be 
modified by a competent builder in the same manner. I think... I'm sure 
others will chime in. They look to be excellent brakes in every way.

Bill in Westchester, NY

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