[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread Surlyprof
I would venture a guess that they are making multiples of the same seat lug 
for all sizes to increase the unit volumes to reduce costs.  That was my 
first impression when I saw the first Clems before they were painted.  
Since the seatstays on all sizes would be at the same angle to the 
seatpost, they would need to compensate for the various lengths and angles 
with the curve of the seatstays and the angle of the tig welded joints.  I 
don't know this for sure, but it makes sense and would be an ingenious way 
to reduce costs while maintaining some lugs where you really want them.  
And... I would never put it past Grant and Rivendell to be ingenious.  As 
an added bonus, I'm guessing that the curved stays also dampen vibration 
coming up from the rear wheel better than a straight stay.


John


On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 11:18:45 AM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:

> I like it, I may put down a deposit, but I'm still a little mystified 
> about the seat lug which necessitates the bendy seatstays. Is it cheaper to 
> make the bike this way, or does Grant just like that lug and there ya go?

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[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread [email protected]
I'm sure it's a frame lock like Liesl linked to. I believe they are also 
called cafe locks. I have an ABUS one with the chain on my Quickbeam and 
love it. Does not replace a proper U-lock, but it's perfect for a 
shopper/townie bike.

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 9:59:39 AM UTC-8, Liesl wrote:
>
>
>>
> -am i an idiot for not understanding the frame lock clue?
>>
> my guess is something like this:  
> http://www.abus.com/us/Recreational-Security/Bike-Safety-and-Security/Locks/Frame-Locks
>  
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread iamkeith


On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 12:18:45 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I like it, I may put down a deposit, but I'm still a little mystified 
> about the seat lug which necessitates the bendy seatstays. Is it cheaper to 
> make the bike this way, or does Grant just like that lug and there ya go?


Only speculating once again, but I think it was to gain tire clearance.  It 
kicks them "outboard," compared to attaching them to attaching them 
directly to the seat tube.   Has any other Rivendell model ever had this 
much tire room?  Was kind of surprised to read that the bendy stays weren't 
originally part of the plan - I actually like the look so much. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread Joe Broach
​
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I like it, I may put down a deposit, but I'm still a little mystified
> about the seat lug which necessitates the bendy seatstays. Is it cheaper to
> make the bike this way, or does Grant just like that lug and there ya go?


The seat lug sockets won't accommodate the angle needed to get a straight
pair of stays back to the way-back-there dropouts. It must cost something
to bend all those stays, so I'd say there's nothing cheap about it. Maybe
the lug was designed with shorter chainstays in mind. In that case, well,
cheaper to bend the stays than re-cast the lugs!

I like the swoop; these bikes are mutts in the best way. Can't wait to see
what people make of them out in the wild. When I have the cash, I plan to
order two to build up for my folks. RIv nailed the problem of the useful
old bike supply dwindling.

Best,
joe broach
pdx or

​​
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I like it, I may put down a deposit, but I'm still a little mystified
> about the seat lug which necessitates the bendy seatstays. Is it cheaper to
> make the bike this way, or does Grant just like that lug and there ya go?
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread Joe Bernard
I like it, I may put down a deposit, but I'm still a little mystified about the 
seat lug which necessitates the bendy seatstays. Is it cheaper to make the bike 
this way, or does Grant just like that lug and there ya go?

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[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread Shoji Takahashi
I'm guessing these will be made in Taiwan-- but just a guess.

Tubing specs-- S!lver... w/o any specifics. Good, fine, and appropriate for 
the task. If Grant says the swoopy chainstays aren't less rigid, I'll go 
with that. (Assuming rider weight is within the specs for the bike.)

TIG welding is a lot less expensive than lugs. Clem isn't lugless, but 
there's a lot of savings in time and expertise. Paint is another biggie-- 
doing cream head tube with other paint means masking, and separate sprays, 
dries, etc. It adds a lot of time and labor = $$. 

As for less expensive parts-- I think that's baked into Riv. The Sugino 
crank is $146, and goes on many Rivs-- I've got one on my AHH. Tough to 
beat the Shimano square taper BB, which go for under $30. Great values 
I really like some expensive cranks, too, but are they "worth" double the 
price? Only you can say. Also, sometimes (often?) the difference in price 
for parts is for weight consideration, e.g., derailers. Little value in 
spending more to save a few grams on a Clem-type bike. 

Looking forward to hearing more about it, and hoping a lot of people buy it.
Shoji


On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 12:43:53 PM UTC-5, drew beckmeyer wrote:
>
> i've been following the progression of the clem, but have no insider 
> information. so, i think, from what i've read it is meant to be an all 
> arounder with some trail (fat tire clearance) and touring (thicker tubing, 
> braze-ons) capabilities. i would venture to say that it isnt meant to be a 
> traditional go fast road bike.  i got one for my girlfriend who will use it 
> as an attractive townie that we can put racks and stuff on as i slowly try 
> to ease her into some overnight trips. 
> to add to the discussion
>
> -anyone know who is making these?
> -what the actual tubing specs are?
> -what the actual chainstay length is, other than "long"
> -am i an idiot for not understanding the frame lock clue?
> -i know im not supposed to harp on it, but does the swoopy seat stay mean 
> less rigidity?
> -other than the tig welds and paint, what brings the cost down so much on 
> the f+f?
> -is anyone else sorta turned off by the recommendations to take off good 
> parts and add crummier ones? i mean, if you do that, more power to you, and 
> if it's on the standard build, also understandable from a price point. but 
> it seems kind of like they dont think this bike is worthy of metal pedals 
> or cork grips or whatevereven if you want to put them on yourself. its 
> an odd play for a bike that could be a great entry level riv for people who 
> like the brand and wanted one, but couldnt justify the price.
>
> again, im already in and excited, so i dont need convincing. just curious
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread iamkeith


On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 10:43:53 AM UTC-7, drew beckmeyer wrote:
>
>
>
> -what the actual chainstay length is, other than "long"
>

Hope I'm not citing wrong information here, but I think the chainstay 
length matches the seat tube length. 
 

> -am i an idiot for not understanding the frame lock clue?
>

I think it's that thing on the  underside of the seatstay, in front of the 
tire.   I have not clue about bike locks though, or what it would fit.

-i know im not supposed to harp on it, but does the swoopy seat stay mean 
> less rigidity?
>

Grant says "no."Even if it did though, I'd consider it a "plus:" A 
little bit of compliance, similar to what you get at the front end, from a 
well designed, curved, rigid fork.   But consider this:  The Ritchey Plexus 
(mtb) and Chicane (road) bikes of the late '90s had curved stays which were 
touted as giving offering some compliance on purpose.   Yet every review 
you ever read says that it was un-noticeable.   And Ritcheys used 
ultra-light tubing for featherweight racer types.  I think we can assume 
the Clem will be heavier, if longer.

-is anyone else sorta turned off by the recommendations to take off good 
> parts and add crummier ones? i mean, if you do that, more power to you, and 
> if it's on the standard build, also understandable from a price point. but 
> it seems kind of like they dont think this bike is worthy of metal pedals 
> or cork grips or whatevereven if you want to put them on yourself. its 
> an odd play for a bike that could be a great entry level riv for people who 
> like the brand and wanted one, but couldnt justify the price.
>

Doesn't turn me off.  They've been telling us for years to bang up, and 
scratch the paint,  drip shellac over, and otherwise beassage 
even our high-end Rivendell bikes.   I get where they're coming from - that 
a bike is a consumable product, meant to be used.  But, for me, it's still 
a big investment that I'd like to keep indefinitely.   Deep down, they know 
that most of us feel that way too - which was part of the inspiration for 
this bike I think:   To help us get over the irrational attachment 
to material things, to worry less, and to ride more.  You also have to keep 
in mind that Rivendell and most of the customer base is in the Bay Area 
which, from what I can tell, must be the bike theft capitol of the world... 
sadly.  So the bike is meant to find that balance between something that is 
enjoyable to ride, but won't break your heart "when" it gets stolen.   I 
can't wait to see the uglification sticker kit.  Nonetheless, if I really 
end up liking the bike, nothing is going to keep me from putting nice parts 
on it and  cherishing it.

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[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread Liesl


> -what the actual chainstay length is, other than "long"
>
the mystery/appaloosa/cheviot chainstays are 54cm (compared to 43-44.5 on 
most other rivs) 

-am i an idiot for not understanding the frame lock clue?
>
my guess is something like this:  
http://www.abus.com/us/Recreational-Security/Bike-Safety-and-Security/Locks/Frame-Locks
 


-is anyone else sorta turned off by the recommendations to take off good 
parts and add crummier ones?

I'm not sure that there was an actual recommendation to take good parts off 
and replace them with crummy ones...It's the spirit of of the bike to be 
good but not precious.  From the Clem pages at Rivbike:  "The late Clem 
Smith parked his bike overnight in downtown Baltimore for years and 
naturally had each and every part of his nice bikes ripped off. He always 
recommended no-bs stuff for us to sell for his "cheap bike." It's good 
stuff, but not so precious you don't mind it getting robbed.  You can 
outfit your bike with Clemcessories on the cheap but still say to yourself 
as you cruise downtown... this is good stuff. And it's all true to our 
quality guarantee. You'll know you're getting high quality, time tested, 
not-stupid stuff. These aren't just Chinese knockoffs of good Nitto 
products, they are items that were developed for different markets; 
commuting, cruising, cheap mountain bikes, hybrids. They're cheap, not 
fake-expensive, get it? " 

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[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread drew beckmeyer
i've been following the progression of the clem, but have no insider 
information. so, i think, from what i've read it is meant to be an all 
arounder with some trail (fat tire clearance) and touring (thicker tubing, 
braze-ons) capabilities. i would venture to say that it isnt meant to be a 
traditional go fast road bike.  i got one for my girlfriend who will use it 
as an attractive townie that we can put racks and stuff on as i slowly try 
to ease her into some overnight trips. 
to add to the discussion

-anyone know who is making these?
-what the actual tubing specs are?
-what the actual chainstay length is, other than "long"
-am i an idiot for not understanding the frame lock clue?
-i know im not supposed to harp on it, but does the swoopy seat stay mean 
less rigidity?
-other than the tig welds and paint, what brings the cost down so much on 
the f+f?
-is anyone else sorta turned off by the recommendations to take off good 
parts and add crummier ones? i mean, if you do that, more power to you, and 
if it's on the standard build, also understandable from a price point. but 
it seems kind of like they dont think this bike is worthy of metal pedals 
or cork grips or whatevereven if you want to put them on yourself. its 
an odd play for a bike that could be a great entry level riv for people who 
like the brand and wanted one, but couldnt justify the price.

again, im already in and excited, so i dont need convincing. just curious

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[RBW] Re: Clem Questions

2015-03-04 Thread iamkeith
I think you can (and should) find some discussion of most of your questions 
by digging through some old threads and the Blug archives.   I think Grant 
said "a darkish blue, with a hint of green."  And it's been described as a 
"non-precious, do-anything, town-ish bike, with mountain/off-road 
capabilities, that can carry a load really well."  Probably not a candidate 
as a go-fast road bike, though. 

And, welcome!

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 9:17:33 AM UTC-7, DSat wrote:

> I am a relative newcomer to the Rivendell world.  I am considering a Clem. 
>  I don't know a lot about the Clem other than the new blog pic's, etc.  Is 
> there any particular type of riding that this bike is meant for?  Is there 
> any type of riding that the Clem is not meant for?  Since they suggested 
> the wide low double crank, I didn't know if that leant to a certain type of 
> riding or not.  With a PBH of 83, Iassume the middle size would be my size. 
>  Any idea if the blue color would be a light blue or a darker blue?  Thanks 
> In Advance
>

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