[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[ian m]

Because, like the bicycle and rider, they are self-sufficient and 
sustainable

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 7:52:51 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Peter Adler]

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:45:10 AM UTC-8, Mojo wrote:
>
> Lately I mated a Luxos U to an SP hub that allows me to charge my phone 
> during the day and has a handlebar switch, and an amazingly wide and 
> consistent beam. The Edulux now seem adequate but less than ideal. I 
> appreciate the SP hub for its performance, price, and simple light 
> attachment compared to Son.


I started using the same combination nearly two years ago, and it's 
superlative. In the city, I've had drivers flash their high beams at me on 
the street, even when I'm using the lowbeams. I've certainly got the angle 
low enough; I suspect some of them are flashing not because they're 
blinded, but because they're spooked to see that bright a light coming from 
a bicycle.

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:16:55 AM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> Even dyno systems benefit from a battery so that the lights, etc. can run 
> when the bike is stopped.
>

Yes, and no. The Luxos U powers its standlight with a lithium battery, 
instead of the capacitor used in older standlight headlamp systems (and in 
generator taillights). A capacitor is fine for a standlight; it generally 
drains after 3-4 minutes, providing enough residual power to keep the 
headlight/taillight lit at a stoplight, after which the system recharges 
when the rider pedals away. B&M/Peter White says the battery is there to 
provide a filtered, even power supply to external devices attached to the 
USB charger.

Unfortunately, the battery makes the system much more difficult to 
troubleshoot. In September, a broken front brake bolt damaged something in 
my Luxos, as my rack assembly/light mounting sagged down. Because the 
battery got enough trickle charge from the hub to maintain a low level of 
power, it took me several weeks to figure out that the damage was to the 
Luxos, not to the SP generator. I could turn on the headlight and get a few 
minutes of light, and then it would shut itself off - often in dangerous 
situations. And the taillight never had enough juice to light after the 
incident. But since the headlight would turn on (at reduced light output), 
I kept flailing around swapping replaceable cables (generator to headlight, 
headlight to taillight) instead of blaming the headlight itself.

If the standlight worked off a capacitor, the capacitor would have drained 
in a few minutes - and that would have been that. As it was, I had to 
unplug the hub from the Luxos entirely, and run it for a week before the 
Luxos' battery drained completely. I then dug out the wussy Spanninga that 
the Luxos had replaced, and found that the hub was fine.

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:34:20 AM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Some dynos may struggle to run the lights *and* the USB charger at the 
> same time, but the workaround there is to charge stuff during the day while 
> your lights are off.
>

Exactly B&M's recommendation for the Luxos U.

Hub generators won't power anything more than a light because that's the 
purpose for which they're designed. If they put out more power, they'd fry 
out the lights. The fact that they can *also* power charging systems is an 
add-on to the existing infrastructure, in the same way that Internet 
service is an add-on to your cable provider's system, which is intended to 
pump the Home Shopping Network, UFC pay-per-view fights and Ryan Gosling 
movies into your house. The Internet is just an extra the cable company can 
toss onto the cable they've already installed, for which they can tack on 
an extra fee.

If you want to pawer *stuff*, you can use solar panels 
, with all the limiting considerations that 
go with them. They're available at a variety of different power output 
levels/voltages. As long as you're using a bike-powered generator, you're 
going to have to deal with the limitations designed into that generator: 
That its primary purpose is to power 6V lighting systems. At least, that's 
what most modern bottle/hub generators are designed to do.

Peter "horses for courses" Adler
Berkeley, CA/USA

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Doug Williams]

Brian,

I'm certainly with you on the "blinding issue". But there are smartly 
designed battery lights as well. I have the Ixon Core battery powered 
lights made by Busch & Müller and there are a few others. It seems that the 
Germans have cornered the market on intelligently designed beam patterns. I 
think it is due to German legislation that we should copy here.

Doug


On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:24:42 PM UTC-8, stonehog wrote:
>
> I ride dyno hubs so I never have to think/worry/bother with lighting.  I 
> never have to charge anything.  I never have to carry something extra.  I 
> can go on a five-minute run to the store, or a 30-hour brevet through the 
> dark countryside.  Haven't worried about lights for going on 4 or 5 years 
> now.  It's just simple.  I also get a smug sense of satisfaction that I'm 
> providing the power.  That's technically and socially cool.  
>
> I also have a lot of options with high-quality lights that I don't yet 
> have with battery powered lights.  Lights that direct the beam where it 
> needs to go - not in other road/trail users eyes.
>
> ***warning - rant - look away***  It seems like I am constantly being 
> blinded these days on my commute on the Burke Gilman by people who now have 
> lights that should be used for cave exploration or riding 40mph through the 
> woods. Then there are the folks that somehow manage to see in front of them 
> with a B - l - I - N - k - I - n - G front light.  On a trail only used by 
> walkers and bikers.  What - are they worried that I won't see them and run 
> into them head on?  Wow.  This isn't even just selfish, or extra cautious. 
>  This is getting to the point of extremely dangerous.  Between the lights, 
> and the helmets, and the vests, and the airbag neck gaiters, is this just a 
> giant conspiracy to end "the ride"?
> *** ok - feel better now ***
>
> Perhaps I just need to find a welding goggle that electronically cancels 
> blinking lights and mutes all ridiculous blinding beams.  It may be the 
> only way to fight the continued onslaught of "*stupid-dangerous lights".
>
> Brian Hanson
> Seattle, WA
>
> * my term and my opinion
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 4:52:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote:
>>
>> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
>> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
>> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
>> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>>
>>
>> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
>> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>>
>>
>> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
>> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
>> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
>> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
>> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
>> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
>> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
>> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
>> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
>> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
>> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>>
>>
>> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from 
>> $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less 
>> than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the 
>> big one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can 
>> ride and don't require a special wheel.
>>
>>
>> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>>
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[stonehog]

I ride dyno hubs so I never have to think/worry/bother with lighting.  I 
never have to charge anything.  I never have to carry something extra.  I 
can go on a five-minute run to the store, or a 30-hour brevet through the 
dark countryside.  Haven't worried about lights for going on 4 or 5 years 
now.  It's just simple.  I also get a smug sense of satisfaction that I'm 
providing the power.  That's technically and socially cool.  

I also have a lot of options with high-quality lights that I don't yet have 
with battery powered lights.  Lights that direct the beam where it needs to 
go - not in other road/trail users eyes.

***warning - rant - look away***  It seems like I am constantly being 
blinded these days on my commute on the Burke Gilman by people who now have 
lights that should be used for cave exploration or riding 40mph through the 
woods. Then there are the folks that somehow manage to see in front of them 
with a B - l - I - N - k - I - n - G front light.  On a trail only used by 
walkers and bikers.  What - are they worried that I won't see them and run 
into them head on?  Wow.  This isn't even just selfish, or extra cautious. 
 This is getting to the point of extremely dangerous.  Between the lights, 
and the helmets, and the vests, and the airbag neck gaiters, is this just a 
giant conspiracy to end "the ride"?
*** ok - feel better now ***

Perhaps I just need to find a welding goggle that electronically cancels 
blinking lights and mutes all ridiculous blinding beams.  It may be the 
only way to fight the continued onslaught of "*stupid-dangerous lights".

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA

* my term and my opinion

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 4:52:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>
>
> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>
>
> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>
>
> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from 
> $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less 
> than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the 
> big one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can 
> ride and don't require a special wheel.
>
>
> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Eric Norris]

Uh … yeah, it will. There’s the SineWave charger, available as an aftermarket 
item, and the B&M Luxos light, which has as an option a USB charging port built 
into its remote switch.

Some dynos may struggle to run the lights *and* the USB charger at the same 
time, but the workaround there is to charge stuff during the day while your 
lights are off.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Jan 30, 2016, at 6:55 AM, Doug Williams  wrote:
> 
> But if you want to also charge your phone/GPS and your GoPro...a dyno won't 
> handle that.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

Regarding the Edeluxe II: has anyone used it off road? I have very poor
night vision, and I've used the E I on our local dirt roads supplemented by
a good battery light; not so much for width of beam as for brightness.

I wonder how the E II compares to the brighter Supernovas, *for off road
use?*

The E II must indeed be bright if it is significantly better than the E I,
which I've used for several years and find excellent.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 9:45 AM, 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> So back to the original question, I used an Edulux I for years and thought
> it was perfect. A few years ago I tried the Edulux II and its much wider
> beam was my new standard of perfect. Lately I mated a Luxos U to an SP hub
> that allows me to charge my phone during the day and has a handlebar
> switch, and an amazingly wide and consistent beam. The Edulux now seem
> adequate but less than ideal. I appreciate the SP hub for its performance,
> price, and simple light attachment compared to Son.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Steve Palincsar]

On 01/30/2016 01:16 PM, Doug Williams wrote:
Yes, Zendure is made in China but they were designed in the USA as a 
Kickstarter. They have proven to be quite reliable, definitely more 
than a few steps ahead of the pack. The Shutter Precision dynamos that 
everyone is raving about are made in Taiwan.


Taiwan != China



Zendures can be run over by a car with no damage and none have burst 
into flames as some have feared. My example was the 2nd Gen A3: 
10,000mAh with two USB ports for only $37 and weighing 204 grams. Not 
exactly a car battery. No, I'm not in league with Zendure and I get 
nothing from them. Just saying...technology marches on. Even dyno 
systems benefit from a battery so that the lights, etc. can run when 
the bike is stopped.




It's not done with batteries, actually.  Standlights run off capacitors.




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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Doug Williams]

Yes, Zendure is made in China but they were designed in the USA as a 
Kickstarter. They have proven to be quite reliable, definitely more than a 
few steps ahead of the pack. The Shutter Precision dynamos that everyone is 
raving about are made in Taiwan.

Zendures can be run over by a car with no damage and none have burst into 
flames as some have feared. My example was the 2nd Gen A3: 10,000mAh with 
two USB ports for only $37 and weighing 204 grams. Not exactly a car 
battery. No, I'm not in league with Zendure and I get nothing from them. 
Just saying...technology marches on. Even dyno systems benefit from a 
battery so that the lights, etc. can run when the bike is stopped.

Doug

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 9:12:30 AM UTC-8, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:
>
> I can't help but wonder what corners have been cut and/or sacrifices made 
> to be able to sell a 10Ah battery for $37. For example, I'm pretty sure 
> these are from China and I would be curious about the environmental and 
> societal impact of benefitting from paying only $37 for such a battery. 
> Yeah, 1st world problems...
>
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 9:19:03 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote:
>>
>> Bill and Joe,
>>
>>
>> Yes, of course. I didn’t mean to demean dynohubs and certainly not the 
>> people who use them. My point is that just a few years ago dynohubs were 
>> the clear winner for anyone doing longer rides. But batteries are really 
>> getting stronger, cheaper, and lighter. Like 10,000mAh with two USB ports 
>> for only $37 and weighing 204 grams. That’s hard for a dyno to beat now and 
>> batteries are getting better all the time. In contrast, unless there is 
>> some breakthrough, dynohub technology is pretty much as good as it will 
>> ever be.
>>
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 6:05:58 PM UTC-8, joe b. wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Doug,
>>>
>>> Re: why some still use dynamo hubs
>>>
>>> Gone are the days when dynamo hubs were "
>>> ​
>>> 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 to $426." Shutter Precision's hubs 
>>> are sub-400g and around $120. Don't forget to subtract the weight of a 
>>> front hub, too. The weight penalty for a dyno is a measly 250g or so these 
>>> days. And, the head and tail lights are superlight!
>>>
>>> How much do all those batteries weigh again? 
>>>
>>> But, more to your question, it's mostly convenience and range anxiety 
>>> for me. I already have enough gadgets to recharge. Definitely don't need 
>>> four(!) more. And, even though I rarely do it any more, I still enjoy 
>>> riding through the night without worrying that one of my batteries will 
>>> give out. 
>>>
>>> I'm glad to know about the new battery options, though. Sounds like 
>>> they've gotten better!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> joe
>>> pdx or
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Doug Williams  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all 
 retro-grouches here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. 
 Friction shifting will never die so long as I live. But I honestly think 
 that technology has left dynohubs in the dustbin of history.


 I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
 Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
 http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp


 The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries 
 last plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). 
 But 
 if I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights 
 at 
 high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
 bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
 Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights 
 from 
 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
 thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
 (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
 for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
 Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.


 ​​
 Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 
 ​​
 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the 
 Zendure weigh less and cost less than a dynohub. They also power more 
 stuff 
 (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the big one) than a dynohub. They provide power 
 for as long as a mortal can ride and don't require a special wheel.


 So…why do we still ride dynohubs?


 Doug


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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

I can't help but wonder what corners have been cut and/or sacrifices made 
to be able to sell a 10Ah battery for $37. For example, I'm pretty sure 
these are from China and I would be curious about the environmental and 
societal impact of benefitting from paying only $37 for such a battery. 
Yeah, 1st world problems...


On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 9:19:03 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> Bill and Joe,
>
>
> Yes, of course. I didn’t mean to demean dynohubs and certainly not the 
> people who use them. My point is that just a few years ago dynohubs were 
> the clear winner for anyone doing longer rides. But batteries are really 
> getting stronger, cheaper, and lighter. Like 10,000mAh with two USB ports 
> for only $37 and weighing 204 grams. That’s hard for a dyno to beat now and 
> batteries are getting better all the time. In contrast, unless there is 
> some breakthrough, dynohub technology is pretty much as good as it will 
> ever be.
>
>
> Doug
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 6:05:58 PM UTC-8, joe b. wrote:
>>
>> Hi Doug,
>>
>> Re: why some still use dynamo hubs
>>
>> Gone are the days when dynamo hubs were "
>> ​
>> 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 to $426." Shutter Precision's hubs 
>> are sub-400g and around $120. Don't forget to subtract the weight of a 
>> front hub, too. The weight penalty for a dyno is a measly 250g or so these 
>> days. And, the head and tail lights are superlight!
>>
>> How much do all those batteries weigh again? 
>>
>> But, more to your question, it's mostly convenience and range anxiety for 
>> me. I already have enough gadgets to recharge. Definitely don't need 
>> four(!) more. And, even though I rarely do it any more, I still enjoy 
>> riding through the night without worrying that one of my batteries will 
>> give out. 
>>
>> I'm glad to know about the new battery options, though. Sounds like 
>> they've gotten better!
>>
>> Best,
>> joe
>> pdx or
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Doug Williams  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all 
>>> retro-grouches here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. 
>>> Friction shifting will never die so long as I live. But I honestly think 
>>> that technology has left dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>>>
>>>
>>> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
>>> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
>>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>>>
>>>
>>> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
>>> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
>>> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
>>> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
>>> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
>>> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
>>> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
>>> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
>>> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
>>> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
>>> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>>>
>>>
>>> ​​
>>> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 
>>> ​​
>>> 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the 
>>> Zendure weigh less and cost less than a dynohub. They also power more stuff 
>>> (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the big one) than a dynohub. They provide power 
>>> for as long as a mortal can ride and don't require a special wheel.
>>>
>>>
>>> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>>>
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

So back to the original question, I used an Edulux I for years and thought it 
was perfect. A few years ago I tried the Edulux II and its much wider beam was 
my new standard of perfect. Lately I mated a Luxos U to an SP hub that allows 
me to charge my phone during the day and has a handlebar switch, and an 
amazingly wide and consistent beam. The Edulux now seem adequate but less than 
ideal. I appreciate the SP hub for its performance, price, and simple light 
attachment compared to Son.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Steve Palincsar]

On 01/30/2016 09:55 AM, Doug Williams wrote:
I agree there, and I would want that "no worries" aspect for my 
lights, just leaving them on day and night. But the other problem with 
dyno's is limited output. If you are only going to run a LED light or 
two, no problem. But if you want to also charge your phone/GPS and 
your GoPro...a dyno won't handle that. I can select a battery that 
will power everything for as long as I like and still be as light as a 
dyno. If a dyno could power all my toys at once, I would be sold. If a 
dyno could run my lights continuously AND slowly charge a small 
battery pack at the same time (so I could rotate two packs for my 
other toys), I would be sold.


Again, I don't mean to be contentious, if there is such a dyno with 
higher output, please point me to it. I would gladly push a little 
more weight and drag to get enough output to run continuous lights and 
charge my phone at the same time. But the last thing I want is for my 
phone/navigation/GPS to give out in the middle of the night. I'm old, 
senile, and I easily become lost. So simultaneous lights AND 
navigation are important to me. But yeah, I don't need to run the 
GoPro, that's just for fun.


This is well beyond the design brief for a self-powered bicycle lighting 
system.


If you want lots of power for your "toys" go ahead, use whatever system 
you like.  Back in 1973 I saw a guy riding Syracuse-Rome-Syracuse with a 
car battery strapped onto a Pletcher carrier to power a hand-held TV 
camera so he could film the event. If that's your thing, have at it.



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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Doug Williams]

Hmmm...Since Zendure battery packs and some others have a "charge through 
capability" (they will power stuff while being charged themselves)...maybe 
what I need is a Zendure hooked up to a dynohub. The Zendure would power 
all the lights, phone, toys, etc. and the dyno would recharge the Zendure. 
I suppose that the system would run a small deficit (because the dyno 
couldn't quite keep up) and the Zendure would eventually need to be plugged 
in...but that would take a LONG time. Has anyone run something like that?

Doug

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 6:55:26 AM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I agree there, and I would want that "no worries" aspect for my lights, 
> just leaving them on day and night. But the other problem with dyno's is 
> limited output. If you are only going to run a LED light or two, no 
> problem. But if you want to also charge your phone/GPS and your GoPro...a 
> dyno won't handle that. I can select a battery that will power everything 
> for as long as I like and still be as light as a dyno. If a dyno could 
> power all my toys at once, I would be sold. If a dyno could run my lights 
> continuously AND slowly charge a small battery pack at the same time (so I 
> could rotate two packs for my other toys), I would be sold.
>
> Again, I don't mean to be contentious, if there is such a dyno with higher 
> output, please point me to it. I would gladly push a little more weight and 
> drag to get enough output to run continuous lights and charge my phone at 
> the same time. But the last thing I want is for my phone/navigation/GPS to 
> give out in the middle of the night. I'm old, senile, and I easily become 
> lost. So simultaneous lights AND navigation are important to me. But yeah, 
> I don't need to run the GoPro, that's just for fun.
>
> Doug
>
>


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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Doug Williams]

I agree there, and I would want that "no worries" aspect for my lights, 
just leaving them on day and night. But the other problem with dyno's is 
limited output. If you are only going to run a LED light or two, no 
problem. But if you want to also charge your phone/GPS and your GoPro...a 
dyno won't handle that. I can select a battery that will power everything 
for as long as I like and still be as light as a dyno. If a dyno could 
power all my toys at once, I would be sold. If a dyno could run my lights 
continuously AND slowly charge a small battery pack at the same time (so I 
could rotate two packs for my other toys), I would be sold.

Again, I don't mean to be contentious, if there is such a dyno with higher 
output, please point me to it. I would gladly push a little more weight and 
drag to get enough output to run continuous lights and charge my phone at 
the same time. But the last thing I want is for my phone/navigation/GPS to 
give out in the middle of the night. I'm old, senile, and I easily become 
lost. So simultaneous lights AND navigation are important to me. But yeah, 
I don't need to run the GoPro, that's just for fun.

Doug

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 5:32:12 AM UTC-8, Julian wrote:
>
> Doug, 
>
> I commute, and the "it's there, no worries" aspect of dynohubs cannot be 
> overstated. 
>
> I also go on multi-day tours, self-supported, and in that case in addition 
> to providing light at night the dynohub charges a battery pack during the 
> day so that phone, GPS, camera, tablet, Kindle (all wonderful 
> battery-powered gizmos) can be charged easily without having to worry about 
> plugging in. No hunting for outlets in cafes or bathrooms, no sitting with 
> your plugged-in gizmo for an hour in a bathroom waiting for a half charge 
> (or the battery pack) ... That's great! 
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 6:52:51 PM UTC-6, Doug Williams wrote:
>>
>> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
>> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
>> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
>> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>>
>>
>> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
>> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>>
>>
>> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
>> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
>> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
>> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
>> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
>> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
>> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
>> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
>> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
>> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
>> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>>
>>
>> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from 
>> $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less 
>> than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the 
>> big one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can 
>> ride and don't require a special wheel.
>>
>>
>> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>>
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Steve Palincsar]

On 01/30/2016 09:21 AM, Lungimsam wrote:
It's also cool to just leave the light on all the time so you just get 
on the bike and go and its always on. Some people just leave it on.




Cooler still just to have the option, so you can make the choice by 
feeling and assessment of visibility and conditions rather than having 
to enter into elaborate calculations about the probable run time 
remaining on your battery charge, just exactly when it was that you last 
charged it and how long had you used it for last, and how cold was it 
out and by how much would that reduce the remaining charge, all done 
without benefit of any kind of instrumentation to let you know how much 
charge was remaining.


Carefree whimsy vs balancing a dozen eels standing on their tails: 
priceless.


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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Lungimsam]

It's also cool to just leave the light on all the time so you just get on 
the bike and go and its always on. Some people just leave it on. 

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Julian]

Doug, 

I commute, and the "it's there, no worries" aspect of dynohubs cannot be 
overstated. 

I also go on multi-day tours, self-supported, and in that case in addition 
to providing light at night the dynohub charges a battery pack during the 
day so that phone, GPS, camera, tablet, Kindle (all wonderful 
battery-powered gizmos) can be charged easily without having to worry about 
plugging in. No hunting for outlets in cafes or bathrooms, no sitting with 
your plugged-in gizmo for an hour in a bathroom waiting for a half charge 
(or the battery pack) ... That's great! 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 6:52:51 PM UTC-6, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>
>
> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>
>
> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>
>
> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from 
> $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less 
> than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the 
> big one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can 
> ride and don't require a special wheel.
>
>
> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Eric Norris]

Actually, the storage capacity of batteries isn’t getting better—it has pretty 
much leveled off. This is a major topic of conversation in the high tech 
industry, particularly with regard to cell phones—this is why there is such a 
debate over the merits of thinner, lighter phones vs slightly heavier, thicker 
phones with more battery life. Batteries are all about chemistry, and the 
lithium rechargeable battery you buy today isn’t much different from the one 
you could get a few years ago. There is no “Moore’s Law” of batteries.

Dyno hubs have also leveled off somewhat, although a Shutter Precision hub is 
markedly lighter and runs with less drag than a top-of-the-line Schmidt hub 
from a few years ago. I know—I have both. The SP hub I took to PBP last year is 
a much better piece of engineering than the Schmidt hubs I used in ’07 and ’11.

The much more dramatic and important improvements have been in LED lighting. 
The good (halogen) lighting system I used at PBP in ’07 literally pales in 
comparison to today’s LED lights. Nighttime riding is so much safer and more 
comfortable now—and the ability to run LED lights in the daytime with a 
low-drag dyno hubs helps make daytime riding safer, too.

For short rides or commutes, rechargeable battery-powered lights are a great 
option. On the rando circuit, my general sense is that the people who use them 
are riding bikes that weren’t made for randonneuring, with battery-powered 
lights thrown on almost as an afterthought. Pretty much every serious 
randonneur I know (including me) uses a dyno lighting system.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Jan 29, 2016, at 9:19 PM, Doug Williams  wrote:
> 
> Bill and Joe,
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course. I didn’t mean to demean dynohubs and certainly not the people 
> who use them. My point is that just a few years ago dynohubs were the clear 
> winner for anyone doing longer rides. But batteries are really getting 
> stronger, cheaper, and lighter. Like 10,000mAh with two USB ports for only 
> $37 and weighing 204 grams. That’s hard for a dyno to beat now and batteries 
> are getting better all the time. In contrast, unless there is some 
> breakthrough, dynohub technology is pretty much as good as it will ever be.
> 
> 
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 6:05:58 PM UTC-8, joe b. wrote:
> Hi Doug,
> 
> Re: why some still use dynamo hubs
> 
> Gone are the days when dynamo hubs were "​575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 
> to $426." Shutter Precision's hubs are sub-400g and around $120. Don't forget 
> to subtract the weight of a front hub, too. The weight penalty for a dyno is 
> a measly 250g or so these days. And, the head and tail lights are superlight!
> 
> How much do all those batteries weigh again? 
> 
> But, more to your question, it's mostly convenience and range anxiety for me. 
> I already have enough gadgets to recharge. Definitely don't need four(!) 
> more. And, even though I rarely do it any more, I still enjoy riding through 
> the night without worrying that one of my batteries will give out. 
> 
> I'm glad to know about the new battery options, though. Sounds like they've 
> gotten better!
> 
> Best,
> joe
> pdx or
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Doug Williams  > wrote:
> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
> 
> 
> 
> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by Busch 
> & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp 
> 
> 
> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if I’m 
> going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The thing 
> is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation (Ride with 
> GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power for much 
> longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack Small and 
> the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​​Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from ​​575 to 720 grams and cost from 
> $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less 
> than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the big 
> one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can ride and 
> don't require a spe

Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Kieran J]

But. They will .. eventually .. fail. 

Right?

KJ


On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 12:19:03 AM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> But batteries are really getting stronger, cheaper, and lighter. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Doug Williams]

Bill and Joe,


Yes, of course. I didn’t mean to demean dynohubs and certainly not the 
people who use them. My point is that just a few years ago dynohubs were 
the clear winner for anyone doing longer rides. But batteries are really 
getting stronger, cheaper, and lighter. Like 10,000mAh with two USB ports 
for only $37 and weighing 204 grams. That’s hard for a dyno to beat now and 
batteries are getting better all the time. In contrast, unless there is 
some breakthrough, dynohub technology is pretty much as good as it will 
ever be.


Doug

On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 6:05:58 PM UTC-8, joe b. wrote:
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> Re: why some still use dynamo hubs
>
> Gone are the days when dynamo hubs were "
> ​
> 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 to $426." Shutter Precision's hubs are 
> sub-400g and around $120. Don't forget to subtract the weight of a front 
> hub, too. The weight penalty for a dyno is a measly 250g or so these days. 
> And, the head and tail lights are superlight!
>
> How much do all those batteries weigh again? 
>
> But, more to your question, it's mostly convenience and range anxiety for 
> me. I already have enough gadgets to recharge. Definitely don't need 
> four(!) more. And, even though I rarely do it any more, I still enjoy 
> riding through the night without worrying that one of my batteries will 
> give out. 
>
> I'm glad to know about the new battery options, though. Sounds like 
> they've gotten better!
>
> Best,
> joe
> pdx or
>
>  
>
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Doug Williams  > wrote:
>
>> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
>> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
>> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
>> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>>
>>
>> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
>> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>>
>>
>> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
>> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
>> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
>> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
>> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
>> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
>> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
>> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
>> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
>> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
>> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>>
>>
>> ​​
>> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 
>> ​​
>> 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the 
>> Zendure weigh less and cost less than a dynohub. They also power more stuff 
>> (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the big one) than a dynohub. They provide power 
>> for as long as a mortal can ride and don't require a special wheel.
>>
>>
>> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>>
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
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>>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Kieran J]

Personally, I cannot imagine life without a dyno hub. It's always on, and 
always works. I value this particularly in the depths of winter when I'm 
commuting in the dark more often than not. Plus, it's cold out - I don't 
want to fiddle with plugging in this and that .. I just get on and go.

Batteries? No thanks.

KJ



On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 7:52:51 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>
>
> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>
>
> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>
>
> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from 
> $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less 
> than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the 
> big one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can 
> ride and don't require a special wheel.
>
>
> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Will]

I'm on the fence with this one. My boys ride Shimano dynos with EYC fronts 
and TopLine Light rears. It's an excellent setup. They run them all the 
time, obviously for night commuting, but also as day lights. I think 
running day lights is a vastly underappreciated value-add.

My wife and I run the new USB rechargeables with TopLine Light battery 
rears. The USB lights are easily as good as most of the dyno-lights I've 
seen. I run 2 on the bars, got plenty of light. There's also the 
versatility of having portables for other tasks: walking the dogs, mucking 
about in dark corners of the house, and so on. And then... there's the fact 
that the battery systems are essentially wireless. Other than Anton's pics, 
most of the wiring I've seen consists of zip ties and such. I've seen a lot 
of photos of $4000 bikes here with zips and wire wraps on frame tubes. If I 
could change one thing Riv doesn't do, but should. it's make the frames 
more suitable for wire.  

I do think the battery systems are cheaper. Mostly b/c you really ought to 
include the pitlock $$$ to secure that dyno and the pit $$$ to secure the 
headlamp. 


On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 7:48:05 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Doug asked:  "So…why do we still ride dynohubs?"
>
> You know all the reasons, I suspect.  You just don't find those reasons 
> compelling, which is fine.  It's great that you have a good lighting 
> solution that makes you feel confident riding at night.  I doubt your 
> intent is to tell those of us who do use dynohubs that we are wrong for 
> doing so.  I doubt that even the staunchest dynohub zealot would tell you 
> that you are wrong for using a battery.  We can all agree enthusiastically 
> that bicycle lighting has improved immensely across the board in the last 
> few years.
>
> Bill four-dynohubs-plus-three-rechargeable-battery-light-systems Lindsay
> El Cerrito, Ca
>
>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Steve Palincsar]

On 01/29/2016 07:52 PM, Doug Williams wrote:


Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all 
retro-grouches here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. 
Friction shifting will never die so long as I live. But I honestly 
think that technology has left dynohubs in the dustbin of history.



I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp



The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. *The batteries 
last plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). *





You think 3 hours of run time on high power is "plenty" and enough to 
put generator hubs with infinite run time into the dustbin of history?  
Please.  It's to laugh.  How far do you think a "long" ride is?   Is it 
possible, do you think, to do a 90 hour event like Paris Brest Paris on 
3 hours of run time?  (In case you've lost the plot, the significance is 
generator hubs came on the market in the United States due to the 
initiative of randonneurs, who absolutely need the sort of lengthy run 
time they provide.)


Another plus for cyclists is that generator hub powered systems require 
no pre-planning, no need to insure you have fully charged batteries with 
you.  You just turn on the switch and there's light. This is extremely 
handy for situations where you didn't really plan on riding at night, 
but unexpectedly got delayed and ended up getting stuck in the dark.   
And, with a generator powered system there simply is no way you're going 
to ever end up exhausting your charge and finding yourself stuck in the 
dark with lights that have failed.  As one who used battery lights for 
over 15 years commuting, I can tell you this is plenty horrible enough 
to want to never be there again.



But if I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the 
lights at high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my 
Zendure USB power bank battery and I can charge my lights even when 
they are in use. The Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 
25,600mAh and weights from 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really 
ridiculously powered model). The thing is, even the small ones are 
enough to run my phone for navigation (Ride with GPS sucks power in 
navigation mode) and my lights at full power for much longer than I 
need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack Small and the 
lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.



Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from 
$257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost 
less than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 
4 on the big one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a 
mortal can ride and don't require a special wheel.



So…why do we still ride dynohubs?




Because they're better?



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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jim Bronson]

Dynohubs are way less hassle IMO.  They're always there when you need
them.  I don't even have to think about my lights and that's the way I like
it.  I've ridden both hubs and battery lights extensively on long brevets.
I'll stick with the hub.
On Jan 29, 2016 18:52, "Doug Williams"  wrote:

> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches
> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will
> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left
> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>
>
> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by
> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here:
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>
>
> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last
> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if
> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at
> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power
> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The
> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from
> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The
> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation
> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power
> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack
> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>
>
> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from
> $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less
> than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the
> big one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can
> ride and don't require a special wheel.
>
>
> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Edwin W]

I don't know the weight penalty. I do know the price penalty, and it is a small 
price, for me, to never charge lights. Never have a battery run out. Have 
lights on all ride every ride. What percentage of my rides are at night? Every 
evening commute needs lights for months at a time. So I like dynohubs, but it 
sounds like you are liking your system, too. 

Edwin

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Eric Norris]

The SP is an amazing buy. All the performance and 90% of the aesthetics of a 
SON hub at half the price. And better connectors to boot. 

–Eric N


> On Jan 29, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> I was a late defender of battery lights, but after trying SONs and modern 
> LEDs, it was no contest: as used as I was to regular charging (using up to 
> date equipment) it was so much simpler to have a dyamo system. And hubs still 
> seem to be the best mix of price, low drag, power, and aesthetics.
> 
> I've tried bb dynamos (not bad but you can't use them with knobbies) and 
> bottles (from Sanyo 6 volts to $300+ 12 volts) but hubs are the best, IMO.
> 
> The SP weighs about 400 grams and costs about $120.
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Doug Williams  wrote:
>> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
>> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
>> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
>> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by Busch 
>> & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
>> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
>> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
>> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
>> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
>> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
>> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
>> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
>> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
>> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
>> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 
>> to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less than a 
>> dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the big one) 
>> than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can ride and 
>> don't require a special wheel.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> 
> The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. Chuang Tzu
> Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world 
> revolves.) Carthusian motto
> 
> It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart
> 
> Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

I was a late defender of battery lights, but after trying SONs and modern
LEDs, it was no contest: as used as I was to regular charging (using up to
date equipment) it was so much simpler to have a dyamo system. And hubs
still seem to be the best mix of price, low drag, power, and aesthetics.

I've tried bb dynamos (not bad but you can't use them with knobbies) and
bottles (from Sanyo 6 volts to $300+ 12 volts) but hubs are the best, IMO.

The SP weighs about 400 grams and costs about $120.

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Doug Williams 
wrote:

> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches
> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will
> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left
> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>
>
> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by
> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here:
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>
>
> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last
> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if
> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at
> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power
> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The
> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from
> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The
> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation
> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power
> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack
> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>
>
> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from
> $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less
> than a dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the
> big one) than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can
> ride and don't require a special wheel.
>
>
> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities
revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Joe Broach]

Hi Doug,

Re: why some still use dynamo hubs

Gone are the days when dynamo hubs were "
​
575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 to $426." Shutter Precision's hubs are
sub-400g and around $120. Don't forget to subtract the weight of a front
hub, too. The weight penalty for a dyno is a measly 250g or so these days.
And, the head and tail lights are superlight!

How much do all those batteries weigh again?

But, more to your question, it's mostly convenience and range anxiety for
me. I already have enough gadgets to recharge. Definitely don't need
four(!) more. And, even though I rarely do it any more, I still enjoy
riding through the night without worrying that one of my batteries will
give out.

I'm glad to know about the new battery options, though. Sounds like they've
gotten better!

Best,
joe
pdx or



On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Doug Williams 
wrote:

> Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches
> here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will
> never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left
> dynohubs in the dustbin of history.
>
>
> I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by
> Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here:
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp
>
>
> The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last
> plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if
> I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at
> high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power
> bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The
> Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from
> 136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The
> thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation
> (Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power
> for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack
> Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.
>
>
> ​​
> Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from
> ​​
> 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 to $426. USB battery banks like the
> Zendure weigh less and cost less than a dynohub. They also power more stuff
> (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the big one) than a dynohub. They provide power
> for as long as a mortal can ride and don't require a special wheel.
>
>
> So…why do we still ride dynohubs?
>
>
> Doug
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Anton Tutter]

The new Eycs are 1/3 the price of the Cyos and have a beam almost as good.

I've had great luck with my first SP hub. No discernible drag and no 
discernible vibration, unlike my two Shimano dynohubs. I liked the SP so 
much I've ordered a second one to build up into a new wheel for another 
bike. They're a bargain. Granted, we don't know how these will hold up over 
the long haul since they haven't been around that long, but so far, so 
good. Both of my Shimanos have held up fine over 4-5 years.

Anton


On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 12:07:44 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I agree with Steve that the Edeluxe II is probably the ne plus ultra of 
> road riding dyno lights (I am going to try an uber Supernova for dirt 
> riding, if my LBS can find it in stock). Even my Edeluxe I (beam said to be 
> narrower and less bright) is * almost* good enough for my bad night 
> vision off road; not quite.
>
> But for occasional use, consider the Cyos (
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.asp) which are much cheaper and, I 
> think, use similar or the same optics. I found the Cyos I used, both 
> probably circa 2012 or so, to be as good at illuminating the road as the 
> Edeluxe I.
>
> http://www.starbike.com/en/busch-and-mueller-lumotec-iq-cyo/
>
> Also, consider the SP dyno hubs in place of the Shimanos: IME, as cheap or 
> cheaper, much lighter, less drag by the "hold up the front wheel and spin 
> and let coast" test, and much prettier.
>
> Has anyone used the Supernova E3 Triple 2? (Weird name.) This is said by 
> web scuttlebutt to put out 640 lumens (I read lumens counts as vaguely 
> meaning, in the real world of actual "see where you are going", as "as 
> bright as you could want when you ride off road" in place of the "almost 
> bright enough for dirt" for the Edeluxes and Cyos. 
>
> My fear is that the E3 T3 will be *too *bright on pavement for oncoming 
> riders. Anyone? If so, how to deal with it? Do we need hi/low beams for 
> bicycle dyno lights?
>
>
> RDS > wrote: 
>
>>
>>
>> I have a Clem 52 which has 27.5" wheels.  I just received a front wheel 
>> with a Shimano DH-3N72 dyno hub.  I have never used a dyno hub.  I know 
>> nothing about this type of lighting system, but want to give it a try more 
>> out of curiousity than need.  I am looking for light recommendations.  Is 
>> the light always on while pedalling?  Can a light be turned on or off while 
>> pedalling?  I will probably just do a front light for time being. How do I 
>> know specs for a light that is compatable with this particular hub?  My 
>> clem has the small mark's rack on front, so any suggestions as where to 
>> mount this light (high, low, on the rack, on the fork, ???)
>>
>> I don't get to ride as much as most of you.  Most of the time I will not 
>> "need" this light.  It will be more for times when darkness beats me back 
>> to the truck.  I do not live near a big city, so NO city riding needs for 
>> this light.  It will be more for cycle paths or a somewhat rural setting.  
>> So, traffic will be minimal for the near future.
>>
>> Any advice or thoughts appreciated.
>>
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Bill Lindsay]

Doug asked:  "So…why do we still ride dynohubs?"

You know all the reasons, I suspect.  You just don't find those reasons 
compelling, which is fine.  It's great that you have a good lighting 
solution that makes you feel confident riding at night.  I doubt your 
intent is to tell those of us who do use dynohubs that we are wrong for 
doing so.  I doubt that even the staunchest dynohub zealot would tell you 
that you are wrong for using a battery.  We can all agree enthusiastically 
that bicycle lighting has improved immensely across the board in the last 
few years.

Bill four-dynohubs-plus-three-rechargeable-battery-light-systems Lindsay
El Cerrito, Ca


>>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Doug Williams]

Warning: Heresy and Impiety follow! I know that we are all retro-grouches 
here and my AHH shifts 8-speed friction on Silver’s. Friction shifting will 
never die so long as I live. But I honestly think that technology has left 
dynohubs in the dustbin of history.


I run two Ixon Core battery powered (USB rechargeable) lights. Made by 
Busch & Müller; I got them from Peter White, see them here: 
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m.asp


The light output and beam shape are both outstanding. The batteries last 
plenty long too (3 hours on high power and 15 hours on low power). But if 
I’m going on a REALLY long night ride and/or I want to run the lights at 
high-power for the whole ride, I just plug them into my Zendure USB power 
bank battery and I can charge my lights even when they are in use. The 
Zendure’s come in several sizes from 6,700mAh to 25,600mAh and weights from 
136 grams to 725 grams (for the really ridiculously powered model). The 
thing is, even the small ones are enough to run my phone for navigation 
(Ride with GPS sucks power in navigation mode) and my lights at full power 
for much longer than I need. I keep the Zendure in my Sackville TrunkSack 
Small and the lights and bag are both mounted on my front Mark’s Rack.


Dyno hubs on Peter’s website weigh from 575 to 720 grams and cost from $257 
to $426. USB battery banks like the Zendure weigh less and cost less than a 
dynohub. They also power more stuff (mostly 2 outputs but 4 on the big one) 
than a dynohub. They provide power for as long as a mortal can ride and 
don't require a special wheel.


So…why do we still ride dynohubs?


Doug


>

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RE: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

The B&M Luxos lights (which I think are great) do have a hi/low beam switch 
mountable on the handlebars.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Moore
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 12:07 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

I agree with Steve that the Edeluxe II is probably the ne plus ultra of road 
riding dyno lights (I am going to try an uber Supernova for dirt riding, if my 
LBS can find it in stock). Even my Edeluxe I (beam said to be narrower and less 
bright) is  almost good enough for my bad night vision off road; not quite.

But for occasional use, consider the Cyos 
(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.asp) which are much cheaper and, I 
think, use similar or the same optics. I found the Cyos I used, both probably 
circa 2012 or so, to be as good at illuminating the road as the Edeluxe I.

http://www.starbike.com/en/busch-and-mueller-lumotec-iq-cyo/

Also, consider the SP dyno hubs in place of the Shimanos: IME, as cheap or 
cheaper, much lighter, less drag by the "hold up the front wheel and spin and 
let coast" test, and much prettier.

Has anyone used the Supernova E3 Triple 2? (Weird name.) This is said by web 
scuttlebutt to put out 640 lumens (I read lumens counts as vaguely meaning, in 
the real world of actual "see where you are going", as "as bright as you could 
want when you ride off road" in place of the "almost bright enough for dirt" 
for the Edeluxes and Cyos.

My fear is that the E3 T3 will be too bright on pavement for oncoming riders. 
Anyone? If so, how to deal with it? Do we need hi/low beams for bicycle dyno 
lights?


RDS mailto:sattd...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I have a Clem 52 which has 27.5" wheels.  I just received a front wheel with a 
Shimano DH-3N72 dyno hub.  I have never used a dyno hub.  I know nothing about 
this type of lighting system, but want to give it a try more out of curiousity 
than need.  I am looking for light recommendations.  Is the light always on 
while pedalling?  Can a light be turned on or off while pedalling?  I will 
probably just do a front light for time being. How do I know specs for a light 
that is compatable with this particular hub?  My clem has the small mark's rack 
on front, so any suggestions as where to mount this light (high, low, on the 
rack, on the fork, ???)

I don't get to ride as much as most of you.  Most of the time I will not "need" 
this light.  It will be more for times when darkness beats me back to the 
truck.  I do not live near a big city, so NO city riding needs for this light.  
It will be more for cycle paths or a somewhat rural setting.  So, traffic will 
be minimal for the near future.

Any advice or thoughts appreciated.


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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

I agree with Steve that the Edeluxe II is probably the ne plus ultra of
road riding dyno lights (I am going to try an uber Supernova for dirt
riding, if my LBS can find it in stock). Even my Edeluxe I (beam said to be
narrower and less bright) is * almost* good enough for my bad night vision
off road; not quite.

But for occasional use, consider the Cyos (
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.asp) which are much cheaper and, I
think, use similar or the same optics. I found the Cyos I used, both
probably circa 2012 or so, to be as good at illuminating the road as the
Edeluxe I.

http://www.starbike.com/en/busch-and-mueller-lumotec-iq-cyo/

Also, consider the SP dyno hubs in place of the Shimanos: IME, as cheap or
cheaper, much lighter, less drag by the "hold up the front wheel and spin
and let coast" test, and much prettier.

Has anyone used the Supernova E3 Triple 2? (Weird name.) This is said by
web scuttlebutt to put out 640 lumens (I read lumens counts as vaguely
meaning, in the real world of actual "see where you are going", as "as
bright as you could want when you ride off road" in place of the "almost
bright enough for dirt" for the Edeluxes and Cyos.

My fear is that the E3 T3 will be *too *bright on pavement for oncoming
riders. Anyone? If so, how to deal with it? Do we need hi/low beams for
bicycle dyno lights?


RDS  wrote:

>
>
> I have a Clem 52 which has 27.5" wheels.  I just received a front wheel
> with a Shimano DH-3N72 dyno hub.  I have never used a dyno hub.  I know
> nothing about this type of lighting system, but want to give it a try more
> out of curiousity than need.  I am looking for light recommendations.  Is
> the light always on while pedalling?  Can a light be turned on or off while
> pedalling?  I will probably just do a front light for time being. How do I
> know specs for a light that is compatable with this particular hub?  My
> clem has the small mark's rack on front, so any suggestions as where to
> mount this light (high, low, on the rack, on the fork, ???)
>
> I don't get to ride as much as most of you.  Most of the time I will not
> "need" this light.  It will be more for times when darkness beats me back
> to the truck.  I do not live near a big city, so NO city riding needs for
> this light.  It will be more for cycle paths or a somewhat rural setting.
> So, traffic will be minimal for the near future.
>
> Any advice or thoughts appreciated.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

My Shimano DynoHub (which is for sale along with its wheel) vibrates 
noticeably at rather high speeds (30 MPH+) when the headlight is engaged 
(tried it on a downhill once).  Aside from that, it doesn't.

On Friday, October 10, 2014 10:32:18 AM UTC-4, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> I only very occasionally note an extremely faint vibration on the SON 
> Deluxe.  This was not the case with the classic SON 28 can style, or 
> the Shimano dynohubs.  They vibrate a lot. 
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Lynne Fitz  > wrote: 
> > my SON28 buzz kicks in at 17mph.  I *think* my SONDelux buzzes around 
> 24mph.  I wouldn't describe it as rough pavement.  More as a "RRRrrr" 
> feeling. 
> > 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jim Bronson]

I only very occasionally note an extremely faint vibration on the SON
Deluxe.  This was not the case with the classic SON 28 can style, or
the Shimano dynohubs.  They vibrate a lot.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Lynne Fitz  wrote:
> my SON28 buzz kicks in at 17mph.  I *think* my SONDelux buzzes around 24mph.  
> I wouldn't describe it as rough pavement.  More as a "RRRrrr" feeling.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Lynne Fitz]

my SON28 buzz kicks in at 17mph.  I *think* my SONDelux buzzes around 24mph.  I 
wouldn't describe it as rough pavement.  More as a "RRRrrr" feeling.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Eric Norris]

It's kind of like riding on rough pavement. A subtle vibration that you can 
feel through the handlebars. I've found that having the lights on and then 
starting to ride makes the vibration harder to discern than is the case if you 
turn the lights on while you're in motion.

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Oct 9, 2014, at 10:23 AM, lungimsam  wrote:
> 
> Can you all describe this vibration, and what is considered acceptable for a 
> hub?
> 
> I am hopefully getting a new hub set up soon and I don't want to think its 
> defective if sometimes buzz happens.
> I am thinking deluxe or deluxe wide body at this point. 
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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[lungimsam]

Can you all describe this vibration, and what is considered acceptable for 
a hub?

I am hopefully getting a new hub set up soon and I don't want to think its 
defective if sometimes buzz happens.
I am thinking deluxe or deluxe wide body at this point. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Eric Norris]

Same here. I've also noticed variations in vibration from the  same wheel on 
the same bike, with both SON and Shimano hubs.

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Oct 8, 2014, at 6:54 PM, William deRosset  wrote:
> 
> Dear Patrick,
> 
> My experience has been that vibration tends to vary considerably with the hub 
> generator, even with the same owner, light, and bike. 
> 
> I owned one first-generation SON 28, and it only had the subtlest vibes at 
> around 15mph when running a Lumotec front light. I got it in 1999, and it is 
> still in service (on its second set of bearings).
> 
> I've had three second-generation SON 28's. One was vibration free. One was 
> buzzy at ordinary 18mph or so JRA speeds with the lights off, and more so 
> with the lights on. The other was buzzy only with the lights on at 20mph or 
> so. The first two came and went. The last is still in-house.
> 
> My experience with SON 20R and Edelux hubs (I've got a pile in the fleet) 
> also vary from hub to hub, but none have been objectionable to date. 
> 
> I've only owned one SP SV-8, and I can't comment on the variability between 
> hubs there, but my example is slightly higher-drag and buzzier with lights-on 
> than the average Edelux at ordinary riding speeds, but it is within the range 
> of variability of the SON hubs on my current machines.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
> 
>> On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 4:14:28 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>> Just a general note: Vibration seems to vary considerably with owner and 
>> light and bike. My own experience has the SP vibrating much more (light on) 
>> than either SON 20R or DN 3H72 (3 of those). In fact, I think my SON 
>> vibrates more than any of the Shimanos did, on. No vibration from any when 
>> "off", and in no case has it been a real problem, even with the SP. 1st ed 
>> Cyo headlights for all except 1st ed Edeluxe for SON.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 3:11 PM, 'Rick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Experimented briefly w/ the Shimano dynohub on a Bleriot, I did have 
>>> considerable vibration.
>> -- 
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
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>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> 
>> *
>>  "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never 
>> was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. 
>> Where is there a place for you to be? No place.
>>  "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to 
>> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind 
>> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into 
>> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your 
>> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is 
>> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was 
>> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, 
>> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where 
>> in your time and your body can they be?
>>   "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried. 
>> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where 
>> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of 
>> you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

Just saw this immediately after my second post demanding clarification.
This supplies the clarification; thanks.

Interesting: my own suspicion had been that vibration and drag depended on
factors other than the type of hub and your wider experience bears this out.

Back to hubs: I notice that the SON 20 R spins quite freely in the stand
despite the short radius and the very light circumferential weight -- and
thus, overall, low inertia -- of a 559 bsd wheel shod with very light 23 mm
tire. (I now use Kojaks, but I used to run old stock Specialized Turbos.)
OTOH, the SP xx 8 vibrates considerably (in the stand) and drags to a stop
rather quickly with the Open Pro/Parigi Roubaix wheel. But I don't notice
this on the road.

The SON 20 R exhibits a buzz at certain cruising road speeds that I didn't
find with any of my 3 Shimanos, but it's merely aesthetic and not
noticeable in effect on effort.

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 7:54 PM, William deRosset 
wrote:

> Dear Patrick,
>
> My experience has been that vibration tends to vary considerably with the
> hub generator, even with the same owner, light, and bike.
>
> I owned one first-generation SON 28, and it only had the subtlest vibes at
> around 15mph when running a Lumotec front light. I got it in 1999, and it
> is still in service (on its second set of bearings).
>
> I've had three second-generation SON 28's. One was vibration free. One was
> buzzy at ordinary 18mph or so JRA speeds with the lights off, and more so
> with the lights on. The other was buzzy only with the lights on at 20mph or
> so. The first two came and went. The last is still in-house.
>
> My experience with SON 20R and Edelux hubs (I've got a pile in the fleet)
> also vary from hub to hub, but none have been objectionable to date.
>
> I've only owned one SP SV-8, and I can't comment on the variability
> between hubs there, but my example is slightly higher-drag and buzzier with
> lights-on than the average Edelux at ordinary riding speeds, but it is
> within the range of variability of the SON hubs on my current machines.
>
> Best,
>
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
> On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 4:14:28 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Just a general note: Vibration seems to vary considerably with owner and
>> light and bike. My own experience has the SP vibrating much more (light on)
>> than either SON 20R or DN 3H72 (3 of those). In fact, I think my SON
>> vibrates more than any of the Shimanos did, on. No vibration from any when
>> "off", and in no case has it been a real problem, even with the SP. 1st ed
>> Cyo headlights for all except 1st ed Edeluxe for SON.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 3:11 PM, 'Rick' via RBW Owners Bunch > googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Experimented briefly w/ the Shimano dynohub on a Bleriot, I did have
>>> considerable vibration.
>>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>> *
>>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to
>> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from
>> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
>> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
>> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
>> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
>> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
>> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
>> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
>> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
>> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
>> in your time and your body can they be?*
>> * "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
>> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
>> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
>> you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood  *
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[William deRosset]

Dear Patrick,

My experience has been that vibration tends to vary considerably with the 
hub generator, even with the same owner, light, and bike. 

I owned one first-generation SON 28, and it only had the subtlest vibes at 
around 15mph when running a Lumotec front light. I got it in 1999, and it 
is still in service (on its second set of bearings).

I've had three second-generation SON 28's. One was vibration free. One was 
buzzy at ordinary 18mph or so JRA speeds with the lights off, and more so 
with the lights on. The other was buzzy only with the lights on at 20mph or 
so. The first two came and went. The last is still in-house.

My experience with SON 20R and Edelux hubs (I've got a pile in the fleet) 
also vary from hub to hub, but none have been objectionable to date. 

I've only owned one SP SV-8, and I can't comment on the variability between 
hubs there, but my example is slightly higher-drag and buzzier with 
lights-on than the average Edelux at ordinary riding speeds, but it is 
within the range of variability of the SON hubs on my current machines.

Best,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 4:14:28 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Just a general note: Vibration seems to vary considerably with owner and 
> light and bike. My own experience has the SP vibrating much more (light on) 
> than either SON 20R or DN 3H72 (3 of those). In fact, I think my SON 
> vibrates more than any of the Shimanos did, on. No vibration from any when 
> "off", and in no case has it been a real problem, even with the SP. 1st ed 
> Cyo headlights for all except 1st ed Edeluxe for SON.
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 3:11 PM, 'Rick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>>
>>
>> Experimented briefly w/ the Shimano dynohub on a Bleriot, I did have 
>> considerable vibration.
>>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to 
> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from 
> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to 
> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind 
> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into 
> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your 
> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is 
> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was 
> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, 
> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where 
> in your time and your body can they be?*
> * "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried. 
> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where 
> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of 
> you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood  *
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jim Bronson]

I know randos who have 40,000+ miles on SON hubs...rode 1000K with one
of them last weekend.

The stuff on those webpages is legal boilerplate to some degree.  I
wouldn't take it as gospel.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:56 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch
 wrote:
> Wayne,
>
> I'd like to add a third reason:
>
> 3.  They are not user serviceable.  Here's what I found on the Shutter
> Precision FAQ:
>
> How often do SP hub dynamos require service?
> SP hub dynamos employ sealed bearings that do not require service until the
> bearings are require replacement. We already have customers that have logged
> over 10,000 kms without any problems and we expect that under normal use the
> service life of these bearings should be well over 20,000 kms. Should they
> ever need servicing, they can be sent back to SP and replaced with new ones
> for roughly USD 30 including the cost of return postage.
>
> Are SP hub dynamos user serviceable?
> Alas, SP hub dynamos are not user serviceable and indeed we are aware of no
> hub dynamos that are based on manufacturer’s recommendations. Any attempt to
> service a SP hub dynamo will void its two-year warranty. We have received
> quite a number of requests from consumers on how they might service their
> hubs even accepting that attempting to do so would void their two-year
> warranty. They accept this risk thinking that this would save the need to
> disassemble and rebuild the wheel. Unfortunately, the design of SP hub
> dynamos like that of many other brands requires disassembly of the wheel for
> bearing replacement. Furthermore, the delicate generator mechanism housed
> within the hub body must be re-calibrated to tolerances of less than a
> millimetre each time bearings are replaced. Failure to carry out this
> operation properly (which is likely without expert knowledge, experience and
> tools), will generally result in catastrophic failure of the generator
> mechanism after a period of use. SP engineers have considered making their
> hubs user serviceable (with much prodding from IDC at the behest of our
> technically savvy testers). But the expertise and equipment required to
> carry out recalibration of the generator mechanism each time the bearings
> are replaced presents a technical hurdle that SP engineers, and indeed all
> other hub dynamo manufacturers we are aware of, have so far declined to
> attempt.
>
>
> Did you catch the part about having to disassemble the wheel in order to
> replace the bearings!  20,00kms is roughly 12,000 miles.  So every 12,000
> miles you need to tear down your wheel, ship it off for new bearings, pay
> $30 + return shipping, and than rebuild your wheel.
>
> WOW.  That combined with the initial buy-in makes dynamos a pretty expensive
> proposition.  I suppose if you really need it than there is no substitute.
> But by comparison, just tonight, I replaced the original lithium-ion
> rechargeable battery in my USB-charged NiteRider Cordless 600 for a total
> cost of $10.99. This light was purchased in 8/2011.  I use it light 5
> days-a-week, year round on my early morning commute.  With an initial cost
> of $108 it has proved to be a pretty good value.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:11:18 AM UTC-7, Wayne Mesard wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when
>> building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:
>>
>> 1. They're expensive!
>> 2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The
>> Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of additional
>> pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.
>>
>> Instead, I bought a USB battery
>> (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy with.
>> That way I have backup power for all my devices, since they all accept USB
>> power (front and rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz headphones). With
>> the money I saved, I could have bought five of them, but one was more than
>> enough.
>>
>> On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged by
>> plugging it in overnight and opportunistically at lunch stops. But just to
>> be safe, I also got a solar panel
>> (http://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-11800-Nomad-Solar) which mounted easily to
>> the rear rack. Like I said, I didn't need it; but I was glad to have it as a
>> backup.
>>
>> Wayne();
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jim Bronson]

The SON Deluxe weighs 390 grams.  Significant weight savings?

A Shimano 105 HB-5700 front hub, for example, weighs 210 grams.

A pound is 453 grams.  I'm not sure I could agree that 180 grams
qualifies as a significant weight savings.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Jack K  wrote:
> Hey Andrew,
>
> I've been waiting for more info, especially user feedback, to appear for the
> Velogical dynamos. For a rider, like me, who uses lights only very
> infrequently having zero drag during the 95% of the time no lights are
> required seems a great tradeoff for (possibly) slightly increased drag
> during the 5% of time lights are needed, plus a significant weight savings
> all of the time. What are your impressions of the dynamo so far, in terms of
> build quality, drag, light output vs speed? It's a very interesting time in
> the history of bicycle lighting!
>
> BTW, I recently bought a new battery light for use on my RB-1 -- a NiteRider
> Lumina 700. It's so well made, compact, bright and lasts so long on a charge
> that I'm fairly well stunned how much good battery lights have evolved in
> the last 5 years. Still, I'd rather have an in-obtrusive dynamo system for
> the rare times I'm out at night on this bike.
>
> BTW2, any other RBW folk doing the Cycle NC "Mountains to Coast" tour next
> week?
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Jack
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:27:31 PM UTC-4, Andrew Marchant-Shapiro
> wrote:
>>
>> For me, there is indeed a difference between dynamo and no dynamo.  One of
>> the reasons I've switched (for now) to the Velogical rim dynamo.
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

Just a general note: Vibration seems to vary considerably with owner and
light and bike. My own experience has the SP vibrating much more (light on)
than either SON 20R or DN 3H72 (3 of those). In fact, I think my SON
vibrates more than any of the Shimanos did, on. No vibration from any when
"off", and in no case has it been a real problem, even with the SP. 1st ed
Cyo headlights for all except 1st ed Edeluxe for SON.

On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 3:11 PM, 'Rick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Experimented briefly w/ the Shimano dynohub on a Bleriot, I did have
> considerable vibration.
>
-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
* "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
"Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood  *

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

['Rick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

>
> I had this little set up for about three years on commuter Atlantis:  
>
 
http://www.amazon.com/Light-Motion-Stella-600-Dual/dp/B005NGQ0GO/ref=sr_1_9?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1412714331&sr=1-9&keywords=light+and+motion+stella
 
One is a flood the other a spot.  Two Phil mounts on either side of the 
Mark's Rack, ran the cable through the front strap and into the loafer 
where the battery resided.  Very bright, had to angle them down to keep 
from blinding traffic.  Downside is of course charging.  My commute isn't 
too bad, so I could hold enough juice during winter by charging over night 
once a week.  
 
Experimented briefly w/ the Shimano dynohub on a Bleriot, I did have 
considerable vibration.
 
Finally got Rich Lesnik to build a wheel with the SON28 and picked up one 
of the upside down Edulux fellows.  (I think these are no longer in 
production, and there is no current inverted-edulux ii either, 
unfortunately).  
 
That's the lead up to me saying:  I like the wheel, hub, and light a lot.  
 
Rick.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/07/2014 11:40 AM, NickBull wrote:
I've got approx 2km on my '05 Schmidt hub, the old-fashioned 
cylinder-shaped one.  Originally purchased from Peter White and run as 
700C from '05 to '11 and then I rebuilt it as a 650B and continue to 
use it.  It's also survived a wreck with no damage at all, in 2007--in 
fact, about the only part of the bike that survived.  No sign of wear 
that I can tell.


And when the time comes, you can send Peter the wheel and get your SON 
upgraded internals with new bearings for $65.



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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[NickBull]

I've got approx 2km on my '05 Schmidt hub, the old-fashioned 
cylinder-shaped one.  Originally purchased from Peter White and run as 700C 
from '05 to '11 and then I rebuilt it as a 650B and continue to use it.  
It's also survived a wreck with no damage at all, in 2007--in fact, about 
the only part of the bike that survived.  No sign of wear that I can tell.

On Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:03:34 PM UTC-4, Lynne Fitz wrote:
>
> I've got 16000 MILES on my SON Delux.  13000 miles on a SON 28 (different 
> bike, and has survived a wreck.  Had the wheel rebuilt).  Both still going 
> strong.  I know someone with over 4 miles on his SON 28.  Ditto.  They 
> may cost more, but...

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Minh]

it's interesting that SP state that mileage, Schmidt suggests higher for 
their hubs (50,000KM) http://www.nabendynamo.de/produkte/dynamos_en.html

but i don't read that as a guarantee, more of a guideline.  

On Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:03:34 PM UTC-4, Lynne Fitz wrote:
>
> I've got 16000 MILES on my SON Delux.  13000 miles on a SON 28 (different 
> bike, and has survived a wreck.  Had the wheel rebuilt).  Both still going 
> strong.  I know someone with over 4 miles on his SON 28.  Ditto.  They 
> may cost more, but...

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Lynne Fitz]

I've got 16000 MILES on my SON Delux.  13000 miles on a SON 28 (different bike, 
and has survived a wreck.  Had the wheel rebuilt).  Both still going strong.  I 
know someone with over 4 miles on his SON 28.  Ditto.  They may cost more, 
but...

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Scott Calhoun]

I've got probably 4500km on my SP PV-8 and it has performed great so far. 
That said, I really don't want to tear down my wheel at 20,000kms:( To 
state the obvious, no matter how bright and economical a rechargeable 
battery light is, they all have the same downside: you have to remember to 
charge them. When I need my lights, I really need them, and I need them for 
the whole trip home. For me, the lack of worrying about charging, mounting, 
and re-mounting lights, is worth the price of even the most expensive 
dynamos. For me, it's about the freedom to go wherever I want, and stay as 
late as I want, and having a dynamo has increased the number of trips I 
make on my bike 2 fold. Summer night riding in Tucson is so nice. My dynamo 
set-ups are my most valuable components--I don't consider them an 
accessories. That said, if you are disciplined about recharging, you might 
be a good candidate for USB lights. I'm not. 

Scott Calhoun
Tucson, AZ

On Friday, October 3, 2014 10:56:16 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote:
>
> Wayne,
>
> I'd like to add a third reason:
>
> 3.  They are not user serviceable.  Here's what I found on the Shutter 
> Precision FAQ:
>
> *How often do SP hub dynamos require service?*
> SP hub dynamos employ sealed bearings that do not require service until 
> the bearings are require replacement. We already have customers that have 
> logged over 10,000 kms without any problems and we expect that under normal 
> use the service life of these bearings should be well over 20,000 kms. 
> Should they ever need servicing, they can be sent back to SP and replaced 
> with new ones for roughly USD 30 including the cost of return postage.
>
> *Are SP hub dynamos user serviceable?*
> Alas, SP hub dynamos are *not* user serviceable and indeed we are aware 
> of no hub dynamos that are based on manufacturer’s recommendations. *Any 
> attempt to service a SP hub dynamo will **void its two-year warranty* 
> *.* We have received quite a 
> number of requests from consumers on how they might service their hubs even 
> accepting that attempting to do so would void their two-year warranty. They 
> accept this risk thinking that this would save the need to disassemble and 
> rebuild the wheel. Unfortunately, the design of SP hub dynamos like that of 
> many other brands requires disassembly of the wheel for bearing 
> replacement. Furthermore, the delicate generator mechanism housed within 
> the hub body must be re-calibrated to tolerances of less than a millimetre 
> each time bearings are replaced. Failure to carry out this operation 
> properly (which is likely without expert knowledge, experience and tools), 
> will generally result in catastrophic failure of the generator mechanism 
> after a period of use. SP engineers have considered making their hubs user 
> serviceable (with much prodding from IDC at the behest of our technically 
> savvy testers). But the expertise and equipment required to carry out 
> recalibration of the generator mechanism each time the bearings are 
> replaced presents a technical hurdle that SP engineers, and indeed all 
> other hub dynamo manufacturers we are aware of, have so far declined to 
> attempt.
>
>
> Did you catch the part about having to disassemble the wheel in order to 
> replace the bearings!  20,00kms is roughly 12,000 miles.  So every 12,000 
> miles you need to tear down your wheel, ship it off for new bearings, pay 
> $30 + return shipping, and than rebuild your wheel.
>
> WOW.  That combined with the initial buy-in makes dynamos a pretty 
> expensive proposition.  I suppose if you really need it than there is no 
> substitute.  But by comparison, just tonight, I replaced the original 
> lithium-ion rechargeable battery in my USB-charged NiteRider Cordless 600 
> for a total cost of $10.99. This light was purchased in 8/2011.  I use it 
> light 5 days-a-week, year round on my early morning commute.  With an 
> initial cost of $108 it has proved to be a pretty good value.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>  
>
> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:11:18 AM UTC-7, Wayne Mesard wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when 
>> building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:
>>
>> 1. They're expensive!
>> 2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The 
>> Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of additional 
>> pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.
>>
>> Instead, I bought a USB battery (
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy 
>> with. That way I have backup power for all my devices, since they all 
>> accept USB power (front and rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz 
>> headphones). With the money I saved, I could have bought five of them, but 
>> one was more than enough.
>>
>> On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged by 
>> plugging it in overnight and opportun

[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Wayne,

I'd like to add a third reason:

3.  They are not user serviceable.  Here's what I found on the Shutter 
Precision FAQ:

*How often do SP hub dynamos require service?*
SP hub dynamos employ sealed bearings that do not require service until the 
bearings are require replacement. We already have customers that have 
logged over 10,000 kms without any problems and we expect that under normal 
use the service life of these bearings should be well over 20,000 kms. 
Should they ever need servicing, they can be sent back to SP and replaced 
with new ones for roughly USD 30 including the cost of return postage.

*Are SP hub dynamos user serviceable?*
Alas, SP hub dynamos are *not* user serviceable and indeed we are aware of 
no hub dynamos that are based on manufacturer’s recommendations. *Any 
attempt to service a SP hub dynamo will **void its two-year warranty* 
*.* We have received quite a number 
of requests from consumers on how they might service their hubs even 
accepting that attempting to do so would void their two-year warranty. They 
accept this risk thinking that this would save the need to disassemble and 
rebuild the wheel. Unfortunately, the design of SP hub dynamos like that of 
many other brands requires disassembly of the wheel for bearing 
replacement. Furthermore, the delicate generator mechanism housed within 
the hub body must be re-calibrated to tolerances of less than a millimetre 
each time bearings are replaced. Failure to carry out this operation 
properly (which is likely without expert knowledge, experience and tools), 
will generally result in catastrophic failure of the generator mechanism 
after a period of use. SP engineers have considered making their hubs user 
serviceable (with much prodding from IDC at the behest of our technically 
savvy testers). But the expertise and equipment required to carry out 
recalibration of the generator mechanism each time the bearings are 
replaced presents a technical hurdle that SP engineers, and indeed all 
other hub dynamo manufacturers we are aware of, have so far declined to 
attempt.


Did you catch the part about having to disassemble the wheel in order to 
replace the bearings!  20,00kms is roughly 12,000 miles.  So every 12,000 
miles you need to tear down your wheel, ship it off for new bearings, pay 
$30 + return shipping, and than rebuild your wheel.

WOW.  That combined with the initial buy-in makes dynamos a pretty 
expensive proposition.  I suppose if you really need it than there is no 
substitute.  But by comparison, just tonight, I replaced the original 
lithium-ion rechargeable battery in my USB-charged NiteRider Cordless 600 
for a total cost of $10.99. This light was purchased in 8/2011.  I use it 
light 5 days-a-week, year round on my early morning commute.  With an 
initial cost of $108 it has proved to be a pretty good value.

Matt




 

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:11:18 AM UTC-7, Wayne Mesard wrote:
>
> I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when 
> building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:
>
> 1. They're expensive!
> 2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The 
> Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of additional 
> pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.
>
> Instead, I bought a USB battery (
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy 
> with. That way I have backup power for all my devices, since they all 
> accept USB power (front and rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz 
> headphones). With the money I saved, I could have bought five of them, but 
> one was more than enough.
>
> On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged by 
> plugging it in overnight and opportunistically at lunch stops. But just to 
> be safe, I also got a solar panel (
> http://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-11800-Nomad-Solar) which mounted easily 
> to the rear rack. Like I said, I didn't need it; but I was glad to have it 
> as a backup.
>
> Wayne();
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

I like it.  It's not a hub dyno, but it may just have seduced me away from hub 
dynos.  See my blog for a review, especially 

http://lawschoolissoover.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/something-old-is-new-again-the-velogical-rim-dynamo/

I also comment on it in the comparative section.

Don't forget other, less costly units as well.  The Velogical is great, but 
it's a lot of money if you don't do much night riding.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Boson Au-Perkins]

+1 on the Shutter Precision SPV-8.  running it with an eyc on my city/long
distance road bike and I basically leave the light on all the time.


Boson Au-Perkins

2608 North Calvert Street
Baltimore, MD 21218

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Not my experience after 3 of the Shimanos, either with drag or vibration.
> I get more vibration with my SON 20 R and my SP.
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Anton Tutter  wrote:
>
>> I have three bikes with dynamo hubs:
>>
>> SONdelux / 650B
>> Shimano 3n72 / 650B
>> Shimano 3n72 / 700C
>>
>> I can't tell if I have my lights on on the bike with the SONdelux.
>>
>> I can DEFINITELY feel the drag with my lights on on both bikes with the
>> Shimano.
>>
>> Worse than the drag, I can feel the Shimano dynohub transmit vibration in
>> the handlebars when the lights are on-- on both bikes.
>>
>> Anton
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:06:25 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually the drag on the "Ultegra level" Shimano dynohubs (DH 3N72 and
>>> higher) is so negligible that perception of it depends more on mood than
>>> anything objective. A front wheel, lifted and spun, doesn't rotate quite as
>>> long as with the SON Deluxe, but when riding you don't feel it. Ditto for
>>> the SP. I don't have the test results in front of  me, but IIRC no modern
>>> dynohub requires anything close to 15 w. In fact, I doubt any dynamo
>>> requires anything close to 15 w; even a Soubitez dynamo would have to be
>>> only 20% efficient to require 15 w for a 3 w output. And, FWIW, even an old
>>> Soubitez bottle or Sanyo or Union isn't as horrible as many people believe
>>> -- my rule of thumb description is that they don't quite require 1 gear
>>> tooth lower in back for the same effort in given conditions.
>>>
>>> I can see preferring rechargeables to dynamos; I used rechargeables for
>>> 10-12 years before getting my first dyanmo hub; but drag isn't really one
>>> of them -- it's not really an issue.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Jim Bronson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 With the new SON deluxe hubs, the drag is imperceptible, even with the
 light on.  This was not the case with the earlier SON hubs or any
 generation of Shimano hubs.
 On Sep 25, 2014 10:09 AM, "Wayne Mesard"  wrote:

> I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when
> building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:
>
> 1. They're expensive!
> 2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The
> Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of 
> additional
> pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.
>
> Instead, I bought a USB battery (http://www.amazon.com/gp/
> product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy with. That way I have
> backup power for all my devices, since they all accept USB power (front 
> and
> rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz headphones). With the money I
> saved, I could have bought five of them, but one was more than enough.
>
> On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged
> by plugging it in overnight and opportunistically at lunch stops. But just
> to be safe, I also got a solar panel (http://www.amazon.com/Goal-
> Zero-11800-Nomad-Solar) which mounted easily to the rear rack. Like I
> said, I didn't need it; but I was glad to have it as a backup.
>
> Wayne();
>
>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>>> Other professional writing services.
>>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>>
>>> *
>>>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to
>>> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from
>>> it. Where is th

Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jack K]

Hey Andrew,

I've been waiting for more info, especially user feedback, to appear for 
the Velogical dynamos. For a rider, like me, who uses lights only very 
infrequently having zero drag during the 95% of the time no lights are 
required seems a great tradeoff for (possibly) slightly increased drag 
during the 5% of time lights are needed, plus a significant weight savings 
all of the time. What are your impressions of the dynamo so far, in terms 
of build quality, drag, light output vs speed? It's a very interesting time 
in the history of bicycle lighting!

BTW, I recently bought a new battery light for use on my RB-1 -- a 
NiteRider Lumina 700. It's so well made, compact, bright and lasts so long 
on a charge that I'm fairly well stunned how much good battery lights have 
evolved in the last 5 years. Still, I'd rather have an in-obtrusive dynamo 
system for the rare times I'm out at night on this bike.

BTW2, any other RBW folk doing the Cycle NC "Mountains to Coast" tour next 
week? 

Cheers,

-Jack

Raleigh, NC 



On Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:27:31 PM UTC-4, Andrew Marchant-Shapiro 
wrote:
>
> For me, there is indeed a difference between dynamo and no dynamo.  One of 
> the reasons I've switched (for now) to the Velogical rim dynamo.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

For me, there is indeed a difference between dynamo and no dynamo.  One of the 
reasons I've switched (for now) to the Velogical rim dynamo.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

Not my experience after 3 of the Shimanos, either with drag or vibration. I
get more vibration with my SON 20 R and my SP.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Anton Tutter  wrote:

> I have three bikes with dynamo hubs:
>
> SONdelux / 650B
> Shimano 3n72 / 650B
> Shimano 3n72 / 700C
>
> I can't tell if I have my lights on on the bike with the SONdelux.
>
> I can DEFINITELY feel the drag with my lights on on both bikes with the
> Shimano.
>
> Worse than the drag, I can feel the Shimano dynohub transmit vibration in
> the handlebars when the lights are on-- on both bikes.
>
> Anton
>
>
> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:06:25 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Actually the drag on the "Ultegra level" Shimano dynohubs (DH 3N72 and
>> higher) is so negligible that perception of it depends more on mood than
>> anything objective. A front wheel, lifted and spun, doesn't rotate quite as
>> long as with the SON Deluxe, but when riding you don't feel it. Ditto for
>> the SP. I don't have the test results in front of  me, but IIRC no modern
>> dynohub requires anything close to 15 w. In fact, I doubt any dynamo
>> requires anything close to 15 w; even a Soubitez dynamo would have to be
>> only 20% efficient to require 15 w for a 3 w output. And, FWIW, even an old
>> Soubitez bottle or Sanyo or Union isn't as horrible as many people believe
>> -- my rule of thumb description is that they don't quite require 1 gear
>> tooth lower in back for the same effort in given conditions.
>>
>> I can see preferring rechargeables to dynamos; I used rechargeables for
>> 10-12 years before getting my first dyanmo hub; but drag isn't really one
>> of them -- it's not really an issue.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>
>>> With the new SON deluxe hubs, the drag is imperceptible, even with the
>>> light on.  This was not the case with the earlier SON hubs or any
>>> generation of Shimano hubs.
>>> On Sep 25, 2014 10:09 AM, "Wayne Mesard"  wrote:
>>>
 I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when
 building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:

 1. They're expensive!
 2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The
 Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of additional
 pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.

 Instead, I bought a USB battery (http://www.amazon.com/gp/
 product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy with. That way I have
 backup power for all my devices, since they all accept USB power (front and
 rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz headphones). With the money I
 saved, I could have bought five of them, but one was more than enough.

 On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged by
 plugging it in overnight and opportunistically at lunch stops. But just to
 be safe, I also got a solar panel (http://www.amazon.com/Goal-
 Zero-11800-Nomad-Solar) which mounted easily to the rear rack. Like I
 said, I didn't need it; but I was glad to have it as a backup.

 Wayne();


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>>>  --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>> *
>>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to
>> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from
>> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
>> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
>> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
>> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
>> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
>> daddy's time nor your children's if you have t

Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Anton Tutter]

I have three bikes with dynamo hubs:

SONdelux / 650B
Shimano 3n72 / 650B
Shimano 3n72 / 700C

I can't tell if I have my lights on on the bike with the SONdelux.

I can DEFINITELY feel the drag with my lights on on both bikes with the 
Shimano.

Worse than the drag, I can feel the Shimano dynohub transmit vibration in 
the handlebars when the lights are on-- on both bikes.

Anton


On Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:06:25 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Actually the drag on the "Ultegra level" Shimano dynohubs (DH 3N72 and 
> higher) is so negligible that perception of it depends more on mood than 
> anything objective. A front wheel, lifted and spun, doesn't rotate quite as 
> long as with the SON Deluxe, but when riding you don't feel it. Ditto for 
> the SP. I don't have the test results in front of  me, but IIRC no modern 
> dynohub requires anything close to 15 w. In fact, I doubt any dynamo 
> requires anything close to 15 w; even a Soubitez dynamo would have to be 
> only 20% efficient to require 15 w for a 3 w output. And, FWIW, even an old 
> Soubitez bottle or Sanyo or Union isn't as horrible as many people believe 
> -- my rule of thumb description is that they don't quite require 1 gear 
> tooth lower in back for the same effort in given conditions.
>
> I can see preferring rechargeables to dynamos; I used rechargeables for 
> 10-12 years before getting my first dyanmo hub; but drag isn't really one 
> of them -- it's not really an issue.
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Jim Bronson  > wrote:
>
>> With the new SON deluxe hubs, the drag is imperceptible, even with the 
>> light on.  This was not the case with the earlier SON hubs or any 
>> generation of Shimano hubs.
>> On Sep 25, 2014 10:09 AM, "Wayne Mesard" > 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when 
>>> building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:
>>>
>>> 1. They're expensive!
>>> 2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The 
>>> Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of additional 
>>> pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.
>>>
>>> Instead, I bought a USB battery (
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy 
>>> with. That way I have backup power for all my devices, since they all 
>>> accept USB power (front and rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz 
>>> headphones). With the money I saved, I could have bought five of them, but 
>>> one was more than enough.
>>>
>>> On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged by 
>>> plugging it in overnight and opportunistically at lunch stops. But just to 
>>> be safe, I also got a solar panel (
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-11800-Nomad-Solar) which mounted easily 
>>> to the rear rack. Like I said, I didn't need it; but I was glad to have it 
>>> as a backup.
>>>
>>> Wayne();
>>>
>>>
>>>  -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>>> .
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>>>
>>  -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to 
> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from 
> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to 
> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind 
> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into 
> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your 
> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is 
> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was 
> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, 
> because they all three will have to be in

Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

Whoops, I see my error. Don't know what a Soubitez or Union or Sanyo bottle
requires in watts if properly set up, since mechanical friction accompanies
magnet drag. But no modern hub dynanmo requires 15 w.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

>  In fact, I doubt any dynamo requires anything close to 15 w; even a
> Soubitez dynamo would have to be only 20% efficient to require 15 w for a 3
> w output.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Patrick Moore]

Actually the drag on the "Ultegra level" Shimano dynohubs (DH 3N72 and
higher) is so negligible that perception of it depends more on mood than
anything objective. A front wheel, lifted and spun, doesn't rotate quite as
long as with the SON Deluxe, but when riding you don't feel it. Ditto for
the SP. I don't have the test results in front of  me, but IIRC no modern
dynohub requires anything close to 15 w. In fact, I doubt any dynamo
requires anything close to 15 w; even a Soubitez dynamo would have to be
only 20% efficient to require 15 w for a 3 w output. And, FWIW, even an old
Soubitez bottle or Sanyo or Union isn't as horrible as many people believe
-- my rule of thumb description is that they don't quite require 1 gear
tooth lower in back for the same effort in given conditions.

I can see preferring rechargeables to dynamos; I used rechargeables for
10-12 years before getting my first dyanmo hub; but drag isn't really one
of them -- it's not really an issue.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

> With the new SON deluxe hubs, the drag is imperceptible, even with the
> light on.  This was not the case with the earlier SON hubs or any
> generation of Shimano hubs.
> On Sep 25, 2014 10:09 AM, "Wayne Mesard"  wrote:
>
>> I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when
>> building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:
>>
>> 1. They're expensive!
>> 2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The
>> Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of additional
>> pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.
>>
>> Instead, I bought a USB battery (
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy
>> with. That way I have backup power for all my devices, since they all
>> accept USB power (front and rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz
>> headphones). With the money I saved, I could have bought five of them, but
>> one was more than enough.
>>
>> On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged by
>> plugging it in overnight and opportunistically at lunch stops. But just to
>> be safe, I also got a solar panel (
>> http://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-11800-Nomad-Solar) which mounted easily
>> to the rear rack. Like I said, I didn't need it; but I was glad to have it
>> as a backup.
>>
>> Wayne();
>>
>>
>>  --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
>  --
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>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
* "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
"Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood  *

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jim Bronson]

With the new SON deluxe hubs, the drag is imperceptible, even with the
light on.  This was not the case with the earlier SON hubs or any
generation of Shimano hubs.
On Sep 25, 2014 10:09 AM, "Wayne Mesard"  wrote:

> I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when
> building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:
>
> 1. They're expensive!
> 2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The
> Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of additional
> pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.
>
> Instead, I bought a USB battery (
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy
> with. That way I have backup power for all my devices, since they all
> accept USB power (front and rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz
> headphones). With the money I saved, I could have bought five of them, but
> one was more than enough.
>
> On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged by
> plugging it in overnight and opportunistically at lunch stops. But just to
> be safe, I also got a solar panel (
> http://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-11800-Nomad-Solar) which mounted easily
> to the rear rack. Like I said, I didn't need it; but I was glad to have it
> as a backup.
>
> Wayne();
>
>
>  --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Eric Norris]

In the "T" setting, only the daytime light (tagelicht, in German) comes on, 
even in the dark. In the "S" (sensor) setting, the full light comes on when it 
gets dark and the daytime light is otherwise on all the time. "O," as you note, 
is off. 

The Edeluxe has a sensor setting, which I never used.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

On Sep 24, 2014, at 8:40 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

> Eric,
> 
> That's the version I have too.  For the life of me I can't figure out
> the difference between the "S" and "T" settings on the dial.  Of
> course "O" is for Off but anyway.  Minor quibble :)  This light is
> great and I used it again tonight on a very pleasant 42 mile ride,
> mostly after dark.  I have it aimed fairly high and it lights up a
> huge section of road.
> 
> I would have a hard time justifying spending more money on a light
> than this one.  Granted the Edluxe case is very attractively designed,
> and the Luxos U has the USB charging port but they're not really
> better lights.
> 
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Eric Norris  wrote:
>> I've used the Edeluxe and the Cyo--all of my dyno-powered bikes now have 
>> various flavors of the Cyo. I haven't used the Edeluxe II, but I found the 
>> beam pattern on the Cyo lights to be better than the original Edeluxe ... at 
>> a lower cost.
>> 
>> I'm currently using one of the newer Cyo lights on my Blériot. I got the 
>> slightly upgraded model that has a daytime running light and a 
>> sensor-controlled full headlight. I like the light, and my only complaint is 
>> that there's no way during the daytime to force the full headlight to come 
>> on. During the day, it's either the daytime light or nothing. If I could 
>> redesign the light, I would eliminate the  sensor function and have three 
>> settings: Off/Daytime/Full
>> 
>> --Eric N
>> www.CampyOnly.com
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> 
>>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Peter White carries the Lumotec IQ Premium Cyo which is $35 more
>>> expensive than the Eyc but about $80 less than the Edluxe II.  I have
>>> one of these IQ Premium Cyo Senso lights that I bought used off of
>>> this list and I love, love, love it.  It's 80lux and has the same
>>> optics as the Luxos and Edluxe II lights.
>>> 
>>> I highly recommend this light any chance I get due to the value for
>>> the $.  I think it's just as good as the Edluxe II.
>>> 
 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Jayme Frye  wrote:
 +1 on the B&M lights already mentioned. I run the Luxos U on my
 camping/commuting bike for the USB charging and the tiny but super bright
 Eyc on my go fast gravel race bike. Both lights perform fabulously.
 Cheers
 
 Jayme
 
 
> On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:09:21 PM UTC-5, DS wrote:
> 
> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to go
> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some 
> feedback
> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos B 
> that
> Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the Eyc 
> is
> cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is 
> starting
> to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike out in
> the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently attached
> and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of city
> streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and
> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think oakland
> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding.
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Wayne Mesard]

I'd like to anti-recommend the dynohub approach. I considered it when 
building my Sam, but rejected it for a couple of reasons:

1. They're expensive!
2. You pay the wattage tax whether you're using the thing or not. The 
Interwebs say that the drag costs anywhere from 2 to 15 watts of additional 
pedal power. That's not a lot. But it's not nothing either.

Instead, I bought a USB battery 
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IP1MQNK/), which I'm quite happy with. 
That way I have backup power for all my devices, since they all accept USB 
power (front and rear lights, GPS, cell phone, AfterShokz headphones). With 
the money I saved, I could have bought five of them, but one was more than 
enough.

On my most recent tour, I had no problem keeping the battery charged by 
plugging it in overnight and opportunistically at lunch stops. But just to 
be safe, I also got a solar panel 
(http://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-11800-Nomad-Solar) which mounted easily to 
the rear rack. Like I said, I didn't need it; but I was glad to have it as 
a backup.

Wayne();


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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jim Bronson]

Eric,

That's the version I have too.  For the life of me I can't figure out
the difference between the "S" and "T" settings on the dial.  Of
course "O" is for Off but anyway.  Minor quibble :)  This light is
great and I used it again tonight on a very pleasant 42 mile ride,
mostly after dark.  I have it aimed fairly high and it lights up a
huge section of road.

I would have a hard time justifying spending more money on a light
than this one.  Granted the Edluxe case is very attractively designed,
and the Luxos U has the USB charging port but they're not really
better lights.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Eric Norris  wrote:
> I've used the Edeluxe and the Cyo--all of my dyno-powered bikes now have 
> various flavors of the Cyo. I haven't used the Edeluxe II, but I found the 
> beam pattern on the Cyo lights to be better than the original Edeluxe ... at 
> a lower cost.
>
> I'm currently using one of the newer Cyo lights on my Blériot. I got the 
> slightly upgraded model that has a daytime running light and a 
> sensor-controlled full headlight. I like the light, and my only complaint is 
> that there's no way during the daytime to force the full headlight to come 
> on. During the day, it's either the daytime light or nothing. If I could 
> redesign the light, I would eliminate the  sensor function and have three 
> settings: Off/Daytime/Full
>
> --Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>
>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>
>> Peter White carries the Lumotec IQ Premium Cyo which is $35 more
>> expensive than the Eyc but about $80 less than the Edluxe II.  I have
>> one of these IQ Premium Cyo Senso lights that I bought used off of
>> this list and I love, love, love it.  It's 80lux and has the same
>> optics as the Luxos and Edluxe II lights.
>>
>> I highly recommend this light any chance I get due to the value for
>> the $.  I think it's just as good as the Edluxe II.
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Jayme Frye  wrote:
>>> +1 on the B&M lights already mentioned. I run the Luxos U on my
>>> camping/commuting bike for the USB charging and the tiny but super bright
>>> Eyc on my go fast gravel race bike. Both lights perform fabulously.
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Jayme
>>>
>>>
 On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:09:21 PM UTC-5, DS wrote:

 Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to go
 with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some feedback
 from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos B 
 that
 Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the Eyc 
 is
 cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is starting
 to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike out in
 the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently attached
 and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of city
 streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and
 occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think oakland
 hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding.
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[ted]

The Edelux lights use optics from B&M with the II version having optics 
like the new Cyo lights and the original (not II) being like the previous 
version of the Cyo (ie IQ not IQ2). Since the reflectors and LEDs are the 
same, the beams are too.
Choosing between the two brands is about price and features besides the 
primary beam. Want a metal housing and a glass front lens, buy the Edelux. 
Want daytime running lights, buy B&M. Want to save money, buy B&M. Want a 
switch for on/senso/off buy the Edelux. .

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:03:11 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> I've used the Edeluxe and the Cyo--all of my dyno-powered bikes now have 
> various flavors of the Cyo. I haven't used the Edeluxe II, but I found the 
> beam pattern on the Cyo lights to be better than the original Edeluxe ... 
> at a lower cost. 
>
> I'm currently using one of the newer Cyo lights on my Blériot. I got the 
> slightly upgraded model that has a daytime running light and a 
> sensor-controlled full headlight. I like the light, and my only complaint 
> is that there's no way during the daytime to force the full headlight to 
> come on. During the day, it's either the daytime light or nothing. If I 
> could redesign the light, I would eliminate the  sensor function and have 
> three settings: Off/Daytime/Full 
>
> --Eric N 
> www.CampyOnly.com 
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com 
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> > On Sep 24, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Jim Bronson  > wrote: 
> > 
> > Peter White carries the Lumotec IQ Premium Cyo which is $35 more 
> > expensive than the Eyc but about $80 less than the Edluxe II.  I have 
> > one of these IQ Premium Cyo Senso lights that I bought used off of 
> > this list and I love, love, love it.  It's 80lux and has the same 
> > optics as the Luxos and Edluxe II lights. 
> > 
> > I highly recommend this light any chance I get due to the value for 
> > the $.  I think it's just as good as the Edluxe II. 
> > 
> >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Jayme Frye  > wrote: 
> >> +1 on the B&M lights already mentioned. I run the Luxos U on my 
> >> camping/commuting bike for the USB charging and the tiny but super 
> bright 
> >> Eyc on my go fast gravel race bike. Both lights perform fabulously. 
> >> Cheers 
> >> 
> >> Jayme 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:09:21 PM UTC-5, DS wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to 
> go 
> >>> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some 
> feedback 
> >>> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos 
> B that 
> >>> Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the 
> Eyc is 
> >>> cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is 
> starting 
> >>> to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike out 
> in 
> >>> the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently 
> attached 
> >>> and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of city 
> >>> streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and 
> >>> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think 
> oakland 
> >>> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding. 
> >> 
> >> -- 
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> Groups 
> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
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> an 
> >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
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> . 
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> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! 
> > 
> > -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Eric Norris]

I've used the Edeluxe and the Cyo--all of my dyno-powered bikes now have 
various flavors of the Cyo. I haven't used the Edeluxe II, but I found the beam 
pattern on the Cyo lights to be better than the original Edeluxe ... at a lower 
cost.

I'm currently using one of the newer Cyo lights on my Blériot. I got the 
slightly upgraded model that has a daytime running light and a 
sensor-controlled full headlight. I like the light, and my only complaint is 
that there's no way during the daytime to force the full headlight to come on. 
During the day, it's either the daytime light or nothing. If I could redesign 
the light, I would eliminate the  sensor function and have three settings: 
Off/Daytime/Full

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Sep 24, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
> 
> Peter White carries the Lumotec IQ Premium Cyo which is $35 more
> expensive than the Eyc but about $80 less than the Edluxe II.  I have
> one of these IQ Premium Cyo Senso lights that I bought used off of
> this list and I love, love, love it.  It's 80lux and has the same
> optics as the Luxos and Edluxe II lights.
> 
> I highly recommend this light any chance I get due to the value for
> the $.  I think it's just as good as the Edluxe II.
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Jayme Frye  wrote:
>> +1 on the B&M lights already mentioned. I run the Luxos U on my
>> camping/commuting bike for the USB charging and the tiny but super bright
>> Eyc on my go fast gravel race bike. Both lights perform fabulously.
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Jayme
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:09:21 PM UTC-5, DS wrote:
>>> 
>>> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to go
>>> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some feedback
>>> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos B that
>>> Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the Eyc is
>>> cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is starting
>>> to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike out in
>>> the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently attached
>>> and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of city
>>> streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and
>>> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think oakland
>>> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding.
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

['Hudson Doerge' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Plus one for the new cyo. Excellent price, brightness, and beam optics. Love 
mine. 

Hudson in atx

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jim Bronson]

Peter White carries the Lumotec IQ Premium Cyo which is $35 more
expensive than the Eyc but about $80 less than the Edluxe II.  I have
one of these IQ Premium Cyo Senso lights that I bought used off of
this list and I love, love, love it.  It's 80lux and has the same
optics as the Luxos and Edluxe II lights.

I highly recommend this light any chance I get due to the value for
the $.  I think it's just as good as the Edluxe II.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Jayme Frye  wrote:
> +1 on the B&M lights already mentioned. I run the Luxos U on my
> camping/commuting bike for the USB charging and the tiny but super bright
> Eyc on my go fast gravel race bike. Both lights perform fabulously.
> Cheers
>
> Jayme
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:09:21 PM UTC-5, DS wrote:
>>
>> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to go
>> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some feedback
>> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos B that
>> Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the Eyc is
>> cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is starting
>> to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike out in
>> the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently attached
>> and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of city
>> streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and
>> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think oakland
>> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding.
>
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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Jayme Frye]

+1 on the B&M lights already mentioned. I run the Luxos U on my 
camping/commuting bike for the USB charging and the tiny but super bright 
Eyc on my go fast gravel race bike. Both lights perform fabulously.
Cheers

Jayme 

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:09:21 PM UTC-5, DS wrote:
>
> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to go 
> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some feedback 
> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos B 
> that Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the 
> Eyc is cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is 
> starting to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike 
> out in the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently 
> attached and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of 
> city streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and 
> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think oakland 
> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

There are alternatives to rim dynamos as well.  I recently did a "user" 
(i.e., non-technical) review of a number of different types of generators 
on my blog.  It's fairly long, but if you want to start from the beginning, 
you can go here:  
http://lawschoolissoover.wordpress.com/2014/07/20/the-shocking-truth/.  I 
evaluate hub dynos, bottom bracket dynos, sidewall dynos, and (the newest 
thing!) the Velogical rim dyno.  It's not *definitive*, but it may be 
useful.

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:57:48 AM UTC-4, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> I don't have a dyno setup yet.  But I've researched it a good deal, on 
> Peter White's site and elsewhere.
>
> If I were to take the plunge today, I'd save some money and buy the 
> Shutter Precision dyno hub.  They're about half the price of the SON hubs, 
> look as good, and are very well-rated.  
>
> Then I'd splurge the money I just saved on the Luxos U.  The beam pattern 
> and brightness look perfect, and the USB charger seems like a very useful 
> thing to have.
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Edwin W  > wrote:
>
>> Like Riv is for bike advice, PW is for lights. Call him up, tell him your 
>> intended use, and he will tell you the best option(s). I have not heard of 
>> him steering anyone down the wrong path (he knows how to illuminate it 
>> haha).
>> A conversation is worth a thousand group postings, in this case.
>>
>> Shown the light by Peter White,
>> Edwin
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Tim Gavin]

I don't have a dyno setup yet.  But I've researched it a good deal, on
Peter White's site and elsewhere.

If I were to take the plunge today, I'd save some money and buy the Shutter
Precision dyno hub.  They're about half the price of the SON hubs, look as
good, and are very well-rated.

Then I'd splurge the money I just saved on the Luxos U.  The beam pattern
and brightness look perfect, and the USB charger seems like a very useful
thing to have.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Edwin W  wrote:

> Like Riv is for bike advice, PW is for lights. Call him up, tell him your
> intended use, and he will tell you the best option(s). I have not heard of
> him steering anyone down the wrong path (he knows how to illuminate it
> haha).
> A conversation is worth a thousand group postings, in this case.
>
> Shown the light by Peter White,
> Edwin
>
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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Edwin W]

Like Riv is for bike advice, PW is for lights. Call him up, tell him your 
intended use, and he will tell you the best option(s). I have not heard of him 
steering anyone down the wrong path (he knows how to illuminate it haha). 
A conversation is worth a thousand group postings, in this case. 

Shown the light by Peter White,
Edwin

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[ted]

I have an Edelux 2 (RBW sells this one too) and a battery powered Ixon IQ.
I think PW says the beam from the newer Eyc is similar to that of the Ixon 
IQ but with the dim spot right in front of the wheel filled in. When I got 
my Ixon IQ I liked it much better than any light I had used before it, so I 
doubt you would be disappointed with the Eyc. The beam from the Edelux is 
broader than my Ixon and fills in close to the bike. The Edelux 2 is great 
too, but I don't vastly prefer its beam over the one from the Ixon. Perhaps 
I'm just not that discerning, others may have a different viewpoint.
The Edelux also has a glass front piece and an aluminum housing so it feels 
like a higher quality item than the plastic lights. 

You should also consider the "senso" feature (or lack thereof) on specific 
models you are considering. You may like having the light come on 
automatically if it starts getting dark towards the end of a ride, or have 
it go off when it gets light after starting out before dawn. Or you may 
prefer to make your own decisions about on or off.

Oh and while you are at it, the linetec dyno tail light is pretty neat too.

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:09:21 PM UTC-7, DS wrote:
>
> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to go 
> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some feedback 
> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos B 
> that Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the 
> Eyc is cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is 
> starting to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike 
> out in the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently 
> attached and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of 
> city streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and 
> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think oakland 
> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[Marc Irwin]

I have been using the Eyc non senso version and love it.  It's brighter 
than most car lights.  I have been using a tire driven dyno with that and 
the Toplight line brake plus, and switching it between two bikes on a 
seasonal basis.  I like it enough to have ordered a dyno hub and Eyc senso 
for my city bike.  I think the driving lights will justify a dynohub all 
the time for a city bike.

Marc

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:09:21 PM UTC-4, DS wrote:
>
> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to go 
> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some feedback 
> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos B 
> that Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the 
> Eyc is cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is 
> starting to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike 
> out in the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently 
> attached and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of 
> city streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and 
> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think oakland 
> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding. 
>

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