subject:"\[RBW\] Re\: Fender Frustration"

[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-25 Thread Deacon Patrick

Thanks, Marc. I have no desire or temptation to fender the Hunqapillar. I 
tried fenders with it's big knobbies and did not like it. It's the 
Quickbeam or no fenders at all.

You're right, those fenders do look good on your Hunqa!

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-25 Thread Marc Irwin

I switched my VO Zepplin fenders to the SKS Velo 29er 
 
fenders and have really liked them.  They are super inexpensive and 
normally slip on and off of a little metal tonque mounted on the fork and 
rear bridge.  I used zip ties on the Hunq because the Big Bens didn't allow 
much clearance but you might like them.  I got lucky and found a paint 
color to match the Hunq's grey.



 Marc

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 1:18:17 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I decided I’d try fenders on the Quickbeam as it will soon have Barlow 
> Pass tires on it (and thus not knobbies to muttle the works). SKS. Turns 
> out I eventually am smarter than the stay attachment mechanism. Took me an 
> hour to get the first one and 5 minutes to get the other seven. Grin.
>
> I also rapidly realized the front fenders’ stays are too long, the fork 
> mount is too high and there are ways to fix them but they require tools and 
> parts I do not have. All of which begs the question, do I REALLY want 
> fenders THAT much? Snow’s melting, mud’s forming, I’d be on the Hunqapillar 
> anyway in it and I don’t want fenders on it. Bah! Grin.
>
> I did get my cognitive therapy for the week and I am smiling at the 
> absurdity of it all. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-25 Thread Deacon Patrick

Ha! Ours is usually red, so I look like Christmas in my olive ventile when 
I ride the Hunqapillar.

With abandon,
Patrick 

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 5:38:56 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> really, they're all wearing black and our road dust is caliche
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-25 Thread Ron Mc

really, they're all wearing black and our road dust is caliche

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 6:30:24 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> fenders are wonderful - we're having a wet spring, and bunches of 
> skunk-striped urbanites come out to ride my local creek bottom road
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-25 Thread Ron Mc

fenders are wonderful - we're having a wet spring, and bunches of 
skunk-striped urbanites come out to ride my local creek bottom road

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 5:11:45 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Fenders are growing on me. Well, staying on the Quickbeam. So far. Maybe, 
> just maybe, I was taking out my frustration on their lack of desire to 
> install on their ability to perform once installed. Sardonic grin. They 
> didn't suck on today's sloppy, muddy, snowy, melty dirt road goodness ride. 
> The mud sucked. SLURP. dragging my tires in and turning each mile into 2, 
> but that's part of the fun. Grin. And with no mud flap (yet), I get the 
> benifit of mod spray on my barefeet and that's nearly as good as glooping 
> between the toes! Grin.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/17069401328/in/photostream/
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-24 Thread Deacon Patrick

Fenders are growing on me. Well, staying on the Quickbeam. So far. Maybe, 
just maybe, I was taking out my frustration on their lack of desire to 
install on their ability to perform once installed. Sardonic grin. They 
didn't suck on today's sloppy, muddy, snowy, melty dirt road goodness ride. 
The mud sucked. SLURP. dragging my tires in and turning each mile into 2, 
but that's part of the fun. Grin. And with no mud flap (yet), I get the 
benifit of mod spray on my barefeet and that's nearly as good as glooping 
between the toes! Grin.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/17069401328/in/photostream/

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-20 Thread Deacon Patrick

Could you provide more context please, Liesl?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 6:37:00 PM UTC-6, Liesl wrote:
>
> Reference to growth mind sets/effort/Dweck:  Reader No. 40, pages 24-27

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-20 Thread Liesl

Reference to growth mind sets/effort/Dweck:  Reader No. 40, pages 24-27

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-20 Thread Deacon Patrick

Ha! How rumors and legends begin. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 12:22:00 PM UTC-6, John wrote:
>
> Patrick,  
>
>Do I need new glasses, or is it my imagination, or did you part the 
> Red Sea without getting wet?
>
> John
>
>
> On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 10:36:57 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Ooops. That was the wrong photo. Here's what I say to fenders:
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/sets/72157652014701796/
>>
>> On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 11:35:43 AM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's what I say to fenders:
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/12254206093/in/photolist-jES1xp-jES2ix
>>>
>>> Grin.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-20 Thread John

Patrick,  

   Do I need new glasses, or is it my imagination, or did you part the 
Red Sea without getting wet?

John


On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 10:36:57 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Ooops. That was the wrong photo. Here's what I say to fenders:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/sets/72157652014701796/
>
> On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 11:35:43 AM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Here's what I say to fenders:
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/12254206093/in/photolist-jES1xp-jES2ix
>>
>> Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-20 Thread Deacon Patrick

Ooops. That was the wrong photo. Here's what I say to fenders:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/sets/72157652014701796/

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 11:35:43 AM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Here's what I say to fenders:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/12254206093/in/photolist-jES1xp-jES2ix
>
> Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-20 Thread Deacon Patrick

Here's what I say to fenders:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/12254206093/in/photolist-jES1xp-jES2ix

Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-20 Thread Liesl

Friends, I have delighted in the entirety of this thread because I am in 
such good company.

Fenders are hard to install ≠ I'm not a good mechanic 
Fenders are hard to install = the more I do it and practice 
problem-solving, the better I will get!

Over the past 10 years, I've mounted fenders on a Kona mountain bike, 
wooden fenders on my Saluki, SKS fenders on my winter Trek 620, longboards 
on a QB, longboards on a cheviot (Mark Abele had everything ready to go, 
though), and fatty P65's on the custom.  Goodness, each time I swear and 
groan and prepare for it to last hours—but each time I increase my skills, 
get better lines, have better tools at hand, can problem-solve around 
spacers and bolts and so forth, and MAYBE even do it a little faster.

What is good to know is the reassurance that fender installment can be 
really tricky, and so my confusion means I am learning something hard!

Folks might find these links interesting:  
http://www.mindsetworks.com/webnav/whatismindset.aspx
http://www.nurtureshock.com/

Grant referred to these ideas, specifically Poe Bronson, in an old reader.  
When I get home tonight, I'll find it and share which number it was (if 
someone doesn't beat me to it)


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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-20 Thread George Schick

While the subject for discussion is revolving around fenders, their 
construction, and materials used, I figured these comments from a different 
blog, same subject, might be useful:

"… When a wheel is moving inside even a dry fender it is producing a pretty 
decent wind-tunnel effect, which will efficiently and effectively push 
along any water present around the inner diameter of the fender towards the 
front, if its course is not disrupted.  Any water flinging off of the tire 
will also shoot outwards on a tangent from the spinning tire and strike the 
inside of the fender and be warped back by the fender in the direction the 
wheel is spinning towards the front.  The middle of the fender is further 
from the axle than the sides, so water moving with the wheel will want to 
channel naturally via centripetal force into the larger radius of the 
middle of the fender and away from the sides until it emerges at the front 
of the fender to be spat out in a straight line on a tangent to the 
diameter of the fender (Newtons laws of motion.) 

The problems with the SKS fender, and many other plastic fenders like it, 
are not the lack of the "ridge" at the sides but the fact that the metal 
fasteners for the stays are mounted on the inside of the fender, where they 
will cause the smooth flow of water around the fender to be disrupted and 
cause turbulence in the stream.  When the water flowing around the fender 
strikes these metal obstructions it will splash and spray in all directions 
instead of continuing to flow around the fender smoothly.  One of these 
directions is right out the sides of the fender to drip onto the stays 
and/or jump into the airstream of the bike.  From there it is "blown" right 
back out on the rider and the bike itself. 

Not good.

The only real solution to this is to drill out the rivets holding these 
brackets and to move the mounts to the outside of the fender instead.  I've 
done this on my front fender and it makes a *huge* difference.  Water no 
longer leaks or sprays out the sides of the fender and instead keeps 
traveling along the length of the fender until it is ejected efficiently 
out the front towards the ground where it belongs.

This brings us to the next problem with SKS and other plastic fenders. 
 They do not have the same rigidity as metal fenders and thus the makers of 
these fenders do not make them protrude far enough forward to keep the 
terminal spray from shooting upwards and back into the airstream of the 
bike, to come right back at it and the rider once it is caught and spread 
out by the wind.  A front fender should cover around at *least* to the top 
of the tire and continue onwards a few more inches so that the water is 
ejected in a generally downward direction where it has a chance of making 
it out of the way of most of the bike and the rider as it catches up with 
it.  Metal fenders often are mounted to the front rack which is installed 
low and close to the wheel to keep the center of gravity of any load such 
as a handlebar bag as low as possible, and to also mount the forward 
portion of the fender so it can extend out and downward even a little bit 
more.   But even without a rack a metal fender is still rigid enough to 
protrude much further than a plastic one. 

The SKS longboards, and their chromoplastic cousins have a very short front 
fender IMHO.  If the fender is mounted in front of the fork crown it works 
a tiny bit better for pushing the water downwards or at least not upwards 
as it exits the fender, but then it is way too high on the back so spray 
hits the bottom bracket, cranks, and the downtube even with a mud flap 
installed.  If the mount is installed at the back of the fork crown it is a 
little better at the back, but it still a little too high to do an 
effective job -flap or no.  The bottom of the mud flap should be about 4" 
or so off the ground to really do its job and keep most of the spray from 
the back of the front wheel away from the BB and the rider's feet on the 
pedals and cranks. 

My solution was to use a rear SKS fender on the front wheel, which is much 
longer.  I mounted it to my front rack in the "rando" style of the French 
Constructeurs as well as to the front of the fork crown.  This still left 
enough length to get it low enough in the back to reach down so that with 
the flexible SKS optional mud flap extends to about 4" from the ground.  I 
had to cut a little bit off of the front of the rear fender because it is 
shaped to go into the chainstay area of the rear wheel and also miss the 
chain.  It isn't shaped like a front fender.   It was pretty simple to cut 
it with a hacksaw and to file into the same shape as a regular front fender 
though.  

These modifications make my hacked plastic SKS fender work just as well as 
a metal fender with the "ridges" on the side.  The ridges are really only 
there to make a metal fender stiffer,  adding "rigidity," so to speak. 
 Having a longer fender without any

[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-19 Thread Deacon Patrick

I just did a couple hour test ride. This is a great day for fenders, with 
melting snow mud and runoff slopping everything. They worked fantastically. 
For me the cost/benefit just doesn't pan out. I'll keep them on for a few 
more rides, but they are likely coming back off. Being Scottish, perhaps I 
just prefer the mud and wet, as you get a glimpse in the photo. Grin.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/17203024452/

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-19 Thread Deacon Patrick

Thanks all! I really appreciate it. Turns out, thanks to you all, I am 
smarter than fenders, but just! Grin.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/17200998075/

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-19 Thread 'Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch


>
> Patrick, when I first started following Rivendell, they recommended using 
> zip ties. Drill holes on each side of the fork crown, each side of the 
> transverse seatstay brace and bottom bracket brace in your fenders. Use zip 
> ties everywhere. McMaster.com has mil spec zip ties that are stronger and 
> safer than MalWart. I tried this for awhile, but it upset my esthetics, so 
> I live with permanently mounted fenders. I bought Planet Bikes quick 
> release fenders for my go faster bike, and they work well. They only 
> require a couple of zip ties. 
>

Clayton Bend
 

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-19 Thread Jon in the foothills of Central Colorado

Patrick,
Have tools,hardware..will travel.I love my fenders. Sometimes they get big 
cotton wood leaves stuck in there..but otherwise they keep me and the bike 
clean and dry. And the cream fenders match the lug color on my Sam and look 
so cool! :)
Here to help if needed.
Jon


>>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-19 Thread George Schick

In addition to the suggestions above, Problem Solvers makes a convenient 
gadget they call a "Fender Flute" that can be used to lower the front 
fender on bikes with considerable fork clearance.  It can be purchased from 
on-line retailers for about $16: 
 http://problemsolversbike.com/products/fender_flute  

This would be good for use on a bike with canti's, linear pull, or disc 
brakes.  I made something similar from a piece of thin-wall electrical 
conduit before I found out about the product.

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 8:36:22 AM UTC-5, Kyle Brooks wrote:
>
> Michael H. mentioned that fenders can get in the way of most roof racks, 
> and he's right. There are products one can buy that raise up the front of 
> the bike, but I've found that they are really expensive (for what they are) 
> and they don't seem to hold the bike that securely -- it seems like the 
> bike can pitch forward under hard braking. However, I have made my own 
> "riser" that attaches to my roof rack to make it possible to fit a 
> befendered bike easily -- very inexpensive, and it doesn't budge. I put 
> pictures and some descriptions on The Retrogrouch Blog to help anyone who'd 
> be interested in making something similar. Some of the guys at my local 
> bike shop have made them and can attest to the usefulness.
>
> http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2013/09/bike-rack-hack.html
>
> Kyle Brooks
> Akron, OH
>
> On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 1:18:17 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> I decided I’d try fenders on the Quickbeam as it will soon have Barlow 
>> Pass tires on it (and thus not knobbies to muttle the works). SKS. Turns 
>> out I eventually am smarter than the stay attachment mechanism. Took me an 
>> hour to get the first one and 5 minutes to get the other seven. Grin.
>>
>> I also rapidly realized the front fenders’ stays are too long, the fork 
>> mount is too high and there are ways to fix them but they require tools and 
>> parts I do not have. All of which begs the question, do I REALLY want 
>> fenders THAT much? Snow’s melting, mud’s forming, I’d be on the Hunqapillar 
>> anyway in it and I don’t want fenders on it. Bah! Grin.
>>
>> I did get my cognitive therapy for the week and I am smiling at the 
>> absurdity of it all. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
>> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>>  
>>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-19 Thread Kyle Brooks

Michael H. mentioned that fenders can get in the way of most roof racks, 
and he's right. There are products one can buy that raise up the front of 
the bike, but I've found that they are really expensive (for what they are) 
and they don't seem to hold the bike that securely -- it seems like the 
bike can pitch forward under hard braking. However, I have made my own 
"riser" that attaches to my roof rack to make it possible to fit a 
befendered bike easily -- very inexpensive, and it doesn't budge. I put 
pictures and some descriptions on The Retrogrouch Blog to help anyone who'd 
be interested in making something similar. Some of the guys at my local 
bike shop have made them and can attest to the usefulness.

http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2013/09/bike-rack-hack.html

Kyle Brooks
Akron, OH

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 1:18:17 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I decided I’d try fenders on the Quickbeam as it will soon have Barlow 
> Pass tires on it (and thus not knobbies to muttle the works). SKS. Turns 
> out I eventually am smarter than the stay attachment mechanism. Took me an 
> hour to get the first one and 5 minutes to get the other seven. Grin.
>
> I also rapidly realized the front fenders’ stays are too long, the fork 
> mount is too high and there are ways to fix them but they require tools and 
> parts I do not have. All of which begs the question, do I REALLY want 
> fenders THAT much? Snow’s melting, mud’s forming, I’d be on the Hunqapillar 
> anyway in it and I don’t want fenders on it. Bah! Grin.
>
> I did get my cognitive therapy for the week and I am smiling at the 
> absurdity of it all. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org *
> *www.OurHolyConception.org *
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-19 Thread Matt B.

I recommend cutting the top off the fork crown bracket on SKS fronts with a 
hacksaw & file.This among other things makes it very easy to remove by 
allowing you to slip it on/off the bolt or front-rack bolt when 
removing.The secu-clips on the rear thing is another good optimization 
though I haven't done it even when I had fenders on my qb, opting instead 
for the flared rear fender approach for rear-wheel removal.  Anyway 
it's good to have at least one bike with fenders on even if it doesn't rain 
much in a given season, just in case.

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 9:38:01 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Thanks! I'd forgotten to check their videos. It addresses several of my 
> issues. Like bolt cutters, bending the fork piece, etc. H.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick 
>
> On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 7:13:46 PM UTC-6, lungimsam wrote:
>>
>> If I lived in your neck of the woods, Patrick, I would just come over 
>> there and do it with you!
>>
>> Have you watched the RBW fender installation video? It is helpful.  
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch

Sheldon's fender nuts make taking the fender off much, much easier. You don't 
have to mess with the brakes. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Patrick Moore

The link is still active: http://www.jitensha.com/eng/honjinstl.html

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Hiroshi at Jitensha studios had the most complete and well organized
> instructions for mounting metal fenders (he sold Honjos) that I've ever
> seen.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Patrick Moore

Hiroshi at Jitensha studios had the most complete and well organized
instructions for mounting metal fenders (he sold Honjos) that I've ever
seen. I used them for my first Honjos and had a relatively easy time --
tho' I'd mounted Berthouds once before, by guess and by gosh, and mounted
plastic fenders of many types before too.

One important lesson I learned, with aluminums, is that you need to relieve
all tension before bolting them on -- ie, you holes have to be in the right
places. I neglected this and the rear Honjo split at the seatstay bridge
after several years and a few thousand miles. Jan makes a big point of this
absence of stress.

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 7:13 PM, lungimsam  wrote:

> If I lived in your neck of the woods, Patrick, I would just come over
> there and do it with you!
>
> Have you watched the RBW fender installation video? It is helpful.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY
>
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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread lungimsam

You can do it!

Just takes a little time, is all!

And then sit back, ride, and enjoy that clean bike! Only get hit by water 
that falls from the sky. Clean.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Deacon Patrick

Thanks! I'd forgotten to check their videos. It addresses several of my 
issues. Like bolt cutters, bending the fork piece, etc. H.

With abandon,
Patrick 

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 7:13:46 PM UTC-6, lungimsam wrote:
>
> If I lived in your neck of the woods, Patrick, I would just come over 
> there and do it with you!
>
> Have you watched the RBW fender installation video? It is helpful.  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread lungimsam

If I lived in your neck of the woods, Patrick, I would just come over there 
and do it with you!

Have you watched the RBW fender installation video? It is helpful.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Ron Mc

done 2 sets of Honjos and SKS on my daughter's bike.  I like the Honjos 
better.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Edwin W

Michael says it very well. If you are on the east coast or NW I would think 
fenders would win by a lot. 
But damn that first time I put fenders on a bike was SO hard, time 
consuming and frustrating. I'm getting better and now it only takes about three 
times as long as it should. 

Fender loving,

Edwin

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Jim M.

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 3:58:25 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a quick-on and quick-off set of fenders for a 29er? 
> They need not be full coverage, just better-than-nothing coverage; the key 
> is quick on/off. 
>
> SKS makes one called X-blade and Planet Bike makes the Flipper. Both mount 
quickly to the seatpost and will keep schmutz off your tuches. Planet Bike 
makes a front one called the Bog that mounts quickly with an expander in 
the steer tube.

jim m
wc ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Patrick Moore

Can anyone recommend a quick-on and quick-off set of fenders for a 29er?
They need not be full coverage, just better-than-nothing coverage; the key
is quick on/off.

I've adapted 60 mm SKS's, but the rear requires removing the wheel even if
it has been shortened to avoid the need for struts (I keep it just long
enough to keep spray from the saddle).

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch

To play the devil's advocate, we are coming on to the dry season in Colorado 
and SS's clean up mightily easy.

Joe in Grand Junction who has some fettered and unfettered bikes and likes em 
both ways.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Deacon Patrick

Thanks, Michael. I really appreciate the wonderful response. I am aware of 
the benefits fenders offer, as I rode the Hunqapillar with fenders for the 
first two years. We'll see what times does. If I'm interested in installing 
them, I'll post photos. Thanks again!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 3:31:28 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Deacon, I have been using fenders on all but my travel bike for almost 2 
> decades.  Here's everything I have learned not to like about fenders:
>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Michael Hechmer

Deacon, I have been using fenders on all but my travel bike for almost 2 
decades.  Here's everything I have learned not to like about fenders:

1. They limit my choice of car racks.
2. They get in the way of many bike racks.
3. Plastic fenders can easily get knocked out of line.
4. In the winter they limit the space for snow & slush build-up.

Here are my favorite things about fenders:

1. They dramatically reduce the time needed to clean the bike.
2. They extend chain & drive chain life.
3. They keep my feet & touch dry & clean.
4. Fenders, especially good metal ones, make a bike look complete for it's 
task.

Yes wins by multiple bike lengths.

I have two very funny memories around fenders.  

Ten years ago I agreed to join my daughter and a group of eight of her 
friends in a leisurely, multi day ride from Cumberland Head Md. to her home 
in DC., along the C&O Trail.  I showed up with fenders and was distinctly 
treated like an old dork.  But it rained hard for a day & a half (it also 
turned out that I was the only one to bring a rain jacket).  I stayed out 
of rooster tails and at the end of each day they were all amazed that I was 
the only one not covered in mud from head to toe.  (I snuck out early in 
the morning and cleaned everyones bike, just to show some sympathy.)

Four  years ago we bought a Bilenky tandem and had it outfitted with rather 
short plastic fenders.  Soon after we got caught in a heavy downpour with 
about three miles of dirt road to cross to home.  When we got home, I was 
clean & dry; but Pat was covered in mud from the feet to the knees.  We 
discovered that the spray from the front wheel had gone beneath me but up 
into the drive chain & onto her.  She cleans up faster than the bike.  Soon 
I added an homongeous  mud flap and a couple of years later switched to 
longer metal fenders.  She's happier now.

Everything on a bicycle has a learning curve.  The first pair of plastic 
fenders I installed took forever and looked crappy.  The first and second 
pair of metal fenders took forever.  Now I just do it.  That said I have 
never installed a fender on a SS, but if you can be specific about the 
issue I'll try to help.  

Michael
Mud season in Vt, when only truly crazy people try to ride the dirt roads.

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 3:36:10 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Thanks! It's all put away for the moment as I have a wee think about how 
> much I'm willing to put into having fenders. 
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2015-04-18 Thread Deacon Patrick

Thanks! It's all put away for the moment as I have a wee think about how 
much I'm willing to put into having fenders. 

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-19 Thread Chris

Hey René,

I actually don't really notice it when I'm riding.  My wife hasn't 
experienced tire rubbing when she rides, either.  

I only noticed the rubbing a few weeks ago when I was walking the bike 
through the hallway.  The tire was slightly wet so the rubbing noise was 
very noticeable.  It only rubs when the bike is steered sharply to the 
right.  Perhaps in in real life riding, the bike is never turned that 
sharply...

Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-19 Thread Brian Hanson

Rene - I ran Pasela 35s on the AHH with Honjo 45s for a while.  I think
it's right at the limit of clearance, and I have since gone back to Jack
Brown or smaller (Gran Bois Cypres) which are perfect for these fenders.  I
recall having the same issue with the 35s having some rub while I was
standing in the climbs.  Just a slight rub usually while I was at full
crank extension/effort.  I wrote it off as wheel or fork flex that was just
enough to contact the tire, but since I had such tight clearance, I didn't
view it as a defect.  Just me running too big of tires for these particular
fenders.

I've had no such rubbing with the Cypress and Jack Browns, FWIW.

Brian
Seattle

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Zack  wrote:

> As far as I am concerned, "frustration" is synonymous with "installation"
> when it comes to fenders.  ahahah.
>
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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-18 Thread Zack

As far as I am concerned, "frustration" is synonymous with "installation" 
when it comes to fenders.  ahahah.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-18 Thread Rex Kerr

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:44 AM, René Sterental  wrote:

> Forgot to add that this rubbing when climbing standing doesn't happen on
> my Atlantis with its Berthoud fenders. Again, while it is a possibility
> that the Honjo fender on the AHH is twisting somehow (it was my first metal
> fender installation ever and I may have gotten better with all the practice
> I've had), I still believe wheel flex under pressure while turning or
> leaning the bike has to be factored as well.
>
> More ideas are welcome!
>

I also had tire/fender interference with my AHH while climbing standing
using 33.3 JBBlue tires and VO hammered fenders mounted with a daruma bolt,
which all went away when I installed the front rack and bolted the fender
to the underside of it.  I believe that it was entirely fender sway.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-17 Thread René Sterental

Thanks for the photos. I've still not added the fenders to my Betty, but
will need to do so shortly. Let me know what your LBS say about the reason
for the rub when you turn the wheel to the right. Does that only happen
when you're riding or also when the bike is on the stand or on the floor
but you're not riding?

René

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Chris  wrote:

> Hi Rene,
>
> Here's a photo 
> setof my 
> Mark's rack setup.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-17 Thread Chris

Hi Rene,

Here's a photo 
setof my 
Mark's rack setup.  Comparing to my Sam, the fender fit on the Betty 
is much tighter (given that the Betty has caliper brake and also wider 
tires).  I switched one of the bolts and used it to secure the fender.  The 
setup seems to work well, except when I make really sharp turn to the 
right.  

I'll ask the LBS people about the fender when I take the bike in for 
service.  Will report back if there's any new discovery.  Thanks!

(I posted the link a few days ago, but it seemed to be lost...)

Chris


On Thursday, January 5, 2012 1:35:49 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> Chris,
>  
> I have the same issue with my AHH, which currently has 35mm Marathon 
> Supremes and 45mm Honjo fenders. My tire rubs the fender when I pedal 
> uphill standing up (swaying the bike from side to side). My assessment of 
> this problem is that it is caused by wheel flex, not by the fender 
> installation. I can actually see the front wheel flex as I sway the bike.
>  
> My AHH currently has Mavic Open Pro 32 spoked rims inherited from my 
> pre-Rivendell days. I have to check out if the spoke tension needs to be 
> adjusted and if the same issue remains if I use a Dyad 36 rim front wheel 
> with the same tires. I'll have to do that soon, since I now have a couple 
> of spare front wheels after getting SON 28 front wheels for the Atlantis 
> and the Hunqapillar.
>  
> If my assumption is correct, then your wheel would be flexing too and it 
> might not be perfectly dished either.
>  
> René
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-05 Thread René Sterental

Forgot to add that this rubbing when climbing standing doesn't happen on my
Atlantis with its Berthoud fenders. Again, while it is a possibility that
the Honjo fender on the AHH is twisting somehow (it was my first metal
fender installation ever and I may have gotten better with all the practice
I've had), I still believe wheel flex under pressure while turning or
leaning the bike has to be factored as well.

More ideas are welcome!

René

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:38 AM, René Sterental  wrote:

> This is also a good suggestion. However, the Rene Herse adapter/widget
> won't work well with forks and sidepull brakes due to the rear brake bolt
> interference that doesn't allow the daruma to be centered.
>
> René
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-05 Thread René Sterental

This is also a good suggestion. However, the Rene Herse adapter/widget
won't work well with forks and sidepull brakes due to the rear brake bolt
interference that doesn't allow the daruma to be centered.

René

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-05 Thread René Sterental

Chris,

I have the same issue with my AHH, which currently has 35mm Marathon
Supremes and 45mm Honjo fenders. My tire rubs the fender when I pedal
uphill standing up (swaying the bike from side to side). My assessment of
this problem is that it is caused by wheel flex, not by the fender
installation. I can actually see the front wheel flex as I sway the bike.

My AHH currently has Mavic Open Pro 32 spoked rims inherited from my
pre-Rivendell days. I have to check out if the spoke tension needs to be
adjusted and if the same issue remains if I use a Dyad 36 rim front wheel
with the same tires. I'll have to do that soon, since I now have a couple
of spare front wheels after getting SON 28 front wheels for the Atlantis
and the Hunqapillar.

If my assumption is correct, then your wheel would be flexing too and it
might not be perfectly dished either.

René

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-05 Thread Minh

Chris,

I think you're going down the right track, as your turning the wheel
the fender is likely pivoting somewhere.  it could be that the stays
for the fender are not aligned, it could be you're not getting a good
seat at the daruma between the daruma rubber washer and the fender, so
that it's creeping into the head-tube.  I would not loosen the daruma
as i think that would cause it to wobble/creep more.

The herse guys have this nifty widget
http://www.renehersestore.com/servlet/the-520/Fender-Wedge-for-underside/Detail
meant to create a more positive seal between fender and daruma.  i was
looking at this until i rigged up my DIY solution as i was having the
same sort of wobble/creep at the front of my fender.

On Jan 5, 11:39 am, Chris  wrote:
> Hey René,
>
> I actually did use one of the bolt slots to stabilize the fender (by
> switching out the original bolt to a longer one that goes through the
> fender, adding a spacer between the fender and the diving board, and
> securing the fender with nut/washer), but it's still rubbing when the wheel
> is turned all the way to the right.  Is it similar to the way you secure
> your fender?
>
> Comparing to the boss on the Mini Front, the bolt is at least an inch
> further back (towards the rear of the bike).  I can't help but wonder if
> the rubbing would stop should the fender be secured closer to the front
> tip.  Does anyone have a spare long front diving board that used to come
> with Mark's rack?
>
> On the hand, I also wonder about my installation.  The relative space
> between the tire and the fender should stay constant when the fork turns,
> right?  There must be something that got caught and causes a slight
> rotation on the fender line.  Perhaps something underneath the fork crown
> daruma?  Should I loosen the nut under the fork crown daruma a bit?  Any
> suggestions?
>
> I'll try to post some pictures later (I moved the bikes to the bike room
> after our ride on the 1st as the weather turned cold).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-05 Thread Chris

Hey René,

I actually did use one of the bolt slots to stabilize the fender (by 
switching out the original bolt to a longer one that goes through the 
fender, adding a spacer between the fender and the diving board, and 
securing the fender with nut/washer), but it's still rubbing when the wheel 
is turned all the way to the right.  Is it similar to the way you secure 
your fender?

Comparing to the boss on the Mini Front, the bolt is at least an inch 
further back (towards the rear of the bike).  I can't help but wonder if 
the rubbing would stop should the fender be secured closer to the front 
tip.  Does anyone have a spare long front diving board that used to come 
with Mark's rack?

On the hand, I also wonder about my installation.  The relative space 
between the tire and the fender should stay constant when the fork turns, 
right?  There must be something that got caught and causes a slight 
rotation on the fender line.  Perhaps something underneath the fork crown 
daruma?  Should I loosen the nut under the fork crown daruma a bit?  Any 
suggestions?

I'll try to post some pictures later (I moved the bikes to the bike room 
after our ride on the 1st as the weather turned cold).

Thanks!

Chris  

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-05 Thread Minh

Rene,

I just walked over to my Mark's Rack (I have all 3 still) and i never
even thought of using those slots in the longboard.  do you have a
picture as it looks a lot higher to my eye then a nitto mini front but
maybe that is just an optical illusion.

On Jan 4, 11:00 pm, René Sterental  wrote:
> I'm not sure what you are referring to. Both my Mark's Racks (on the AHH
> and the Betty) have 2 bolts on the flat section that holds the rack in the
> middle and goes into the brake hole in the fork crown. I use one of these
> to stabilize the front of the fender. Has anything changed recently?
>
> René
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Minh  wrote:
> > Hi Chris,
>
> > I had this problem too, i had a Nitto Mini Front and when i switched
> > to a Nitto Campee Front i lost that same boss up front.  I came up
> > with my own DIY solution, i used an extra daruma bolt and a ziptie to
> > secure it to the cross section of the rack, it doesn't look as clean
> > but is rock solid.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-05 Thread Pondero

Thanks, Esteban.  I like your suggestion, and am leaning hard in that
direction.  If I didn't spend so much time on gravel roads, it would
be a slam dunk.  I love Hetres on gravel.

But I'm pretty sure I do not love gravel wedged within inadequate
fender clearance.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-04 Thread Esteban

One thing the Hetre has done is create a lot of noises and tight
clearances for the the 650B denizens whose Kogswells, Ebisus, and
Rivendells were spec'd for around 37mm - which was all that was
available about 2007.

I agree with Ryan - after riding the Lierres, if you want supple
casing and a fast, light ride, just get that tire and save yourself
the headache.  Hetres are great tires.  But they require a lot of
frame-design fidgeting with fenders that not even most custom builders
can pull off cleanly.  Or you get the gaping yaw of the Rawland.

Here's the Protovelo with comfortable clearances with Lierres:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/6592022665/in/photostream

Hetres were fun, but a royal pain and best abandoned.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-04 Thread René Sterental

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Both my Mark's Racks (on the AHH
and the Betty) have 2 bolts on the flat section that holds the rack in the
middle and goes into the brake hole in the fork crown. I use one of these
to stabilize the front of the fender. Has anything changed recently?

René

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Minh  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> I had this problem too, i had a Nitto Mini Front and when i switched
> to a Nitto Campee Front i lost that same boss up front.  I came up
> with my own DIY solution, i used an extra daruma bolt and a ziptie to
> secure it to the cross section of the rack, it doesn't look as clean
> but is rock solid.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-04 Thread Minh

Hi Chris,

I had this problem too, i had a Nitto Mini Front and when i switched
to a Nitto Campee Front i lost that same boss up front.  I came up
with my own DIY solution, i used an extra daruma bolt and a ziptie to
secure it to the cross section of the rack, it doesn't look as clean
but is rock solid.



On Jan 3, 1:17 pm, Chris  wrote:
> My wife's Betty also has rubbing on the front/right tip of the fender when
> the bike steers to the right.  The bike has 50mm Honjo installed with
> 35mm Soma Xpress tires.  I kinda wish the Mark's rack had a boss, like the
> Mini front, which could be used to secure the front tip of the fender.  The
> older version of Mark's rack came with a longer diving board plate, whose
> front tip can be used as a stay for the fender.  But the longer version of
> the spring board is no longer being sold.
>
> Or maybe a washer needs to be loosened.  I need to play around with it a
> bit more...

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-04 Thread Chris

My wife's Betty also has rubbing on the front/right tip of the fender when 
the bike steers to the right.  The bike has 50mm Honjo installed with 
35mm Soma Xpress tires.  I kinda wish the Mark's rack had a boss, like the 
Mini front, which could be used to secure the front tip of the fender.  The 
older version of Mark's rack came with a longer diving board plate, whose 
front tip can be used as a stay for the fender.  But the longer version of 
the spring board is no longer being sold.   

Or maybe a washer needs to be loosened.  I need to play around with it a 
bit more...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-03 Thread René Sterental

Hi Mark,

Even if I wouldn't do it, I still think it is a very ingenious solution I
never thought of either. The great thing about this group is how many other
ideas you get exposed to that in turn, generate new ideas in your head.

Happy riding!!!

René

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Mark Fredrickson <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi René,
>
> > No offense intended at all, but I cannot see myself doing that on my
> bikes.
>
> None taken. Different strokes for different folks. I was having fun
> fabricating small parts from old junk in the garage, so there was a
> perverse pleasure in this for me. For someone with more metal working
> skills and better tools, I imagine nicer brackets could be generated
> (and I think I saw reference to commercial offerings at some point).
>
> > I'd rather go to a smaller sized tire if needed.
>
> I can honestly say this idea did not occur to me until after I had cut
> the fender. Even so, I'm happy with the result.
>
> From pictures I've seen, I can certainly appreciate your fine taste in
> bicycles. :-)
>
> Best wishes,
> - Mark
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-03 Thread Mark Fredrickson

Hi René,

> No offense intended at all, but I cannot see myself doing that on my bikes.

None taken. Different strokes for different folks. I was having fun
fabricating small parts from old junk in the garage, so there was a
perverse pleasure in this for me. For someone with more metal working
skills and better tools, I imagine nicer brackets could be generated
(and I think I saw reference to commercial offerings at some point).

> I'd rather go to a smaller sized tire if needed.

I can honestly say this idea did not occur to me until after I had cut
the fender. Even so, I'm happy with the result.

>From pictures I've seen, I can certainly appreciate your fine taste in
bicycles. :-)

Best wishes,
- Mark


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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread René Sterental

Wow!

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Philip Williamson <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Nitto M12 for the win! Waitasecond... what's a daruma supposed to hang
> from on a non-sidepull bike? A cork?
>
> It didn't occur to me to use a daruma with disc brakes:
> http://www.biketinker.com/2011/projects/im-thankful-for-my-fenders/
> No rivet gun, just a drill, a hammer, and a couple pokey-things to
> flatten the rivets over.
>
>  Philip
>
> Philip Williamson
> www.biketinker.com
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2:28 pm, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> > On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 14:16 -0800, Philip Williamson wrote:
> > > Fork-crown darumas are stupid. I recommend riveting a bracket onto the
> > > fender that attaches to the rear brake bolt.
> >
> > Of course, not a very practical solution if you're using cantilevers or
> > brazed-on centerpulls...
>
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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Philip Williamson

Nitto M12 for the win! Waitasecond... what's a daruma supposed to hang
from on a non-sidepull bike? A cork?

It didn't occur to me to use a daruma with disc brakes:
http://www.biketinker.com/2011/projects/im-thankful-for-my-fenders/
No rivet gun, just a drill, a hammer, and a couple pokey-things to
flatten the rivets over.

 Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Jan 2, 2:28 pm, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 14:16 -0800, Philip Williamson wrote:
> > Fork-crown darumas are stupid. I recommend riveting a bracket onto the
> > fender that attaches to the rear brake bolt.
>
> Of course, not a very practical solution if you're using cantilevers or
> brazed-on centerpulls...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Peter Morgano

Stick with it, took me 5 nights of fiddling but I got the hetres, 52
zeppelins and 58cm Saluki to all play nice together. Use the l bracket and
Sheldons fender nut. I secure that then when you bend the fenders to secure
the at the fork you will get the clearance you need. Trust me.
On Jan 2, 2012 8:28 PM, "rcnute"  wrote:

> If the Hetres won't work I think the Lierres are just about equal in
> ride quality.
>
> Ryan
>
> On Jan 2, 4:27 pm, Pondero  wrote:
> > Thanks, Grant, for the reply.  Just wanted to point out that I
> > understand the design, and that I know I'm cheating.  I love my AHH
> > unconditionally.  If I can make this hack work, fine.  If not, no
> > knock on the bike, I'll adjust.
> >
> > Thanks, also for all the other suggestions.  I'm gonna ponder this a
> > little before making a decision.
>
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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread LBleriot

If it's the daruma bolt that's causing the rub, then take out the Dremel and 
grind that sucker down.  Interestingly, the only time I've had a problem with a 
tire rubbing the daruma was with a Hetre.  Good luck.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Mark Fredrickson

I had a similar problem. After much gnashing of teeth, I decided to
cut my rear fender and splice it using home made brackets:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/devinf/6620876305/in/photostream

This photo shows the second set of brackets. The first rear bracket
attempted to run under the brake, but did not provide anymore
clearance than the fender itself. I admit this is an extreme solution,
but it gives a lot of flexibility with getting a good fender line and
good clearance. In fact, I'd like to see fenders come in 4 piece sets
with more attractive brackets.

Like others, I've cut and ground down mounting screws. I mounted the
fenders, removed the wheels, and cut/ground the screws flush with the
bolts (a Dremel works great for these jobs). I'll have a hell of time
reattaching the fenders should I ever need to remove them, but as long
as they stay on, I've got great clearance.

-M

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread rcnute

If the Hetres won't work I think the Lierres are just about equal in
ride quality.

Ryan

On Jan 2, 4:27 pm, Pondero  wrote:
> Thanks, Grant, for the reply.  Just wanted to point out that I
> understand the design, and that I know I'm cheating.  I love my AHH
> unconditionally.  If I can make this hack work, fine.  If not, no
> knock on the bike, I'll adjust.
>
> Thanks, also for all the other suggestions.  I'm gonna ponder this a
> little before making a decision.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Pondero

Thanks, Grant, for the reply.  Just wanted to point out that I
understand the design, and that I know I'm cheating.  I love my AHH
unconditionally.  If I can make this hack work, fine.  If not, no
knock on the bike, I'll adjust.

Thanks, also for all the other suggestions.  I'm gonna ponder this a
little before making a decision.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread rob markwardt

If I had a rivet gun I might agree, but daruma's aren't that bad.

Installing metal fenders does take a little longer and will require a
bit fiddling and patience, however, if I can do it anybody can.  Once
you get them on they are WAY better than the plastics models (IMHO).
I've installed maybe four or five sets using both the bracket and the
daruma.  I think the daruma does make it a little sturdier (word?) but
both work fine.

It does get a little easier each time you do itcan be a pain in
the rear though.  I'm currently trying to silence a new set of VO
Zepplins on my Bleriot. I'm pretty close but I think that the single
attachment on the rear is causing a little rattle.  I'm pretty anal
when it comes to bike noises so I'm working towards "silence".  I've
never even come close to that with the plastic models, but when you
get the metal ones on solidly you don't even notice they are there.

Rob "It's raining pretty hard and I'm going for a ride right
nowwith metal fenders" Markwardt

On Jan 2, 2:16 pm, Philip Williamson 
wrote:
> Fork-crown darumas are stupid. I recommend riveting a bracket onto the
> fender that attaches to the rear brake bolt.
>
>  Philip
>
> Philip Williamsonwww.biketinker.com
>
> On Jan 2, 10:07 am, Pondero  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks, Rene.
>
> > Fender line was not perfect, but satisfactory for me.  The space at
> > the fork was a little less than at the fender ends.  I agree the brake
> > was a challenge.  I dented fender top at fork AND at break to give a
> > little more clearance.  The shortened daruma might work.  I've
> > considered smaller tires, but can't get used to the idea of that yet.- Hide 
> > quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Joe Bernard

Y'all trying to cram huge tires under no-clearance fenders be crazy, man. 
That's a stuck-rock-or-stick disaster waiting to happen. 
 
Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Steve Palincsar

On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 14:16 -0800, Philip Williamson wrote:
> Fork-crown darumas are stupid. I recommend riveting a bracket onto the
> fender that attaches to the rear brake bolt.

Of course, not a very practical solution if you're using cantilevers or
brazed-on centerpulls...



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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Philip Williamson

Fork-crown darumas are stupid. I recommend riveting a bracket onto the
fender that attaches to the rear brake bolt.

 Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com


On Jan 2, 10:07 am, Pondero  wrote:
> Thanks, Rene.
>
> Fender line was not perfect, but satisfactory for me.  The space at
> the fork was a little less than at the fender ends.  I agree the brake
> was a challenge.  I dented fender top at fork AND at break to give a
> little more clearance.  The shortened daruma might work.  I've
> considered smaller tires, but can't get used to the idea of that yet.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Philip Williamson

I have fender greed. I don't believe I have ever set up a fender
without trying to eke every mm of tire width out of the setup.
Actually, not true. The front of my Utopia has inches of clearance,
and I had to make a 3" drop bracket to get the fender down near the
tire. The back, though, I had to file off some metal to fit the
tire...

 Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Jan 2, 12:20 pm, grant  wrote:
> The AHH has 65mm of brake reach and a fork crown that maximizes that
> 65mm for fender clearance. (It does so by putting the hole as low as
> possible in the fork crown, to make sure there's no metal where there
> could be air). The Silver brake was designed, also, with fenders in
> mind (wide mouth high up, clears SKS 45mm fenders).
>
> here are always limitations, but those two components in the equation
> are pretty well thought-out and fender friendly. I think some of the
> problems may be due to trying to work even beyond the clearance
> provided---a bike putter-together equivalent of getting greedy,
> stretching even capacious limits beyond what's possible.
>
> There's nothing wrong, of course, with the fenders, either. But we all
> the time put 40mm tires on bikes with silvers and SKS fenders. I know,
> plastic, but plastic isn't Satan, and when you combine a plastic
> (malleable) fender of a good design with the Homer's fork and silver
> brake, things generally work out well. A fender that's 52mm
> wide...probably best used with cantilevers or V's or something.
>
> Anyway...I understand the frustration. The nature of fatting and
> fendering a bike always leads to a rub here and there, because you
> naturally want the most of everything.
> G
>
> On Jan 2, 9:26 am, Pondero  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > A. Homer Hilsen, 650b
> > VO Zepplin 52mm
> > Hetre
>
> > Tire rubs on fork crown daruma.
>
> > I recognize that I'm pushing the limits of tire width with fender
> > installation, but thought I'd seen someone with this combination in a
> > photo somewhere.
>
> > Has this problem already been solved somewhere?
>
> > Any suggestions appreciated.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread René Sterental

Very well put, Grant.

There would be no issues if I had kept the Marathon tires I got with the
Betty, which I believe are 35s... but those red Hetres look so good on the
Betty... :-)

And of course, even though she desn't have time to ride it, my oldest
daughter wants the hammered Honjo fenders on it. Like you said... pushing
the tolerances... :-)

Yesterday I rode the Betty with the 200 Bullmoose bars and I have to say it
also felt wonderful. I cannot quite figure out why the 200s feel so
stretched out on the Hunqapillar but feel so great on the Betty. Their
geometry differences don't seem to be so great, yet they feel very
different. I'll keep those for a while and ride it like this, but if my
daughter ever rides it, she'll need the 150s back as she already felt a bit
stretched on them. Since it's obvious I love how the Betty handles with
both, it'll be fine.

I'm sad to see the Bullmoose bars on the sale... I hope it doesn't mean
they'll never be made again. Luckily I'm well stocked in those. It was a
last minute discovery, but such a delightful one!

What will I do in 2012 if all my bikes now fit perfectly? Well, I guess
I'll just have to ride them more... :-D

René

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 12:20 PM, grant  wrote:

> The AHH has 65mm of brake reach and a fork crown that maximizes that
> 65mm for fender clearance. (It does so by putting the hole as low as
> possible in the fork crown, to make sure there's no metal where there
> could be air). The Silver brake was designed, also, with fenders in
> mind (wide mouth high up, clears SKS 45mm fenders).
>
> here are always limitations, but those two components in the equation
> are pretty well thought-out and fender friendly. I think some of the
> problems may be due to trying to work even beyond the clearance
> provided---a bike putter-together equivalent of getting greedy,
> stretching even capacious limits beyond what's possible.
>
> There's nothing wrong, of course, with the fenders, either. But we all
> the time put 40mm tires on bikes with silvers and SKS fenders. I know,
> plastic, but plastic isn't Satan, and when you combine a plastic
> (malleable) fender of a good design with the Homer's fork and silver
> brake, things generally work out well. A fender that's 52mm
> wide...probably best used with cantilevers or V's or something.
>
> Anyway...I understand the frustration. The nature of fatting and
> fendering a bike always leads to a rub here and there, because you
> naturally want the most of everything.
> G
>
> On Jan 2, 9:26 am, Pondero  wrote:
> > A. Homer Hilsen, 650b
> > VO Zepplin 52mm
> > Hetre
> >
> > Tire rubs on fork crown daruma.
> >
> > I recognize that I'm pushing the limits of tire width with fender
> > installation, but thought I'd seen someone with this combination in a
> > photo somewhere.
> >
> > Has this problem already been solved somewhere?
> >
> > Any suggestions appreciated.
>
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>

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread grant

The AHH has 65mm of brake reach and a fork crown that maximizes that
65mm for fender clearance. (It does so by putting the hole as low as
possible in the fork crown, to make sure there's no metal where there
could be air). The Silver brake was designed, also, with fenders in
mind (wide mouth high up, clears SKS 45mm fenders).

here are always limitations, but those two components in the equation
are pretty well thought-out and fender friendly. I think some of the
problems may be due to trying to work even beyond the clearance
provided---a bike putter-together equivalent of getting greedy,
stretching even capacious limits beyond what's possible.

There's nothing wrong, of course, with the fenders, either. But we all
the time put 40mm tires on bikes with silvers and SKS fenders. I know,
plastic, but plastic isn't Satan, and when you combine a plastic
(malleable) fender of a good design with the Homer's fork and silver
brake, things generally work out well. A fender that's 52mm
wide...probably best used with cantilevers or V's or something.

Anyway...I understand the frustration. The nature of fatting and
fendering a bike always leads to a rub here and there, because you
naturally want the most of everything.
G

On Jan 2, 9:26 am, Pondero  wrote:
> A. Homer Hilsen, 650b
> VO Zepplin 52mm
> Hetre
>
> Tire rubs on fork crown daruma.
>
> I recognize that I'm pushing the limits of tire width with fender
> installation, but thought I'd seen someone with this combination in a
> photo somewhere.
>
> Has this problem already been solved somewhere?
>
> Any suggestions appreciated.

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Kelly Sleeper

Mine rubbed too.  I just cut it down.. twice even. :)  Well after buying a new 
one.  

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[RBW] Re: Fender Frustration

2012-01-02 Thread Pondero

Thanks, Rene.

Fender line was not perfect, but satisfactory for me.  The space at
the fork was a little less than at the fender ends.  I agree the brake
was a challenge.  I dented fender top at fork AND at break to give a
little more clearance.  The shortened daruma might work.  I've
considered smaller tires, but can't get used to the idea of that yet.

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