[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
Thanks for all the help and advice! :) I went for a ride and practiced shifting the 4 largest cogs. Then I rode over a hill few times and pedaled harder for few strokes and then pedaled lighter and shifted. The shifting was really a lot better than before. It’s still not perfect though. It’s especially hard to shift from the biggest cog to second and third biggest when pedaling uphill. Anyways, now I hopefully won’t completely mess up my new cassette and chains. I hope I’ll learn to shift even better. Otherwise I’ll probably get myself some indexed shifters. Being wiser now, I should have built either 8 speed with friction or 9 speed with indexed. I was looking at some Dura-Ace 9 speed down tube shifters in a web shop. I would be happy to hear opinions about bar-end vs down tube shifters. I don’t really like the long cables of bar end shifters, but I’m not sure how it would be to always reach all the way down for shifting - especially when shifting both front and rear “at the same time”. Other option would be Paul Thumbies. Any opinions about Dura-Ace downtube shifters vs bar end shifters with Paul Thumbies? By the way, is it possible to convert Dia Compe bar end shifters to down tube shifters? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
I read from Paul's web site that the Thumbies have 26mm clamp size and fit standard stem-clamp sleeves. But in the picture at rivbike.com they are mounted on Nitto bars that should be 24mm diameter: http://www.rivbike.com/images/products/full//0701/17-124a.jpg Is it possible to fit them to Nitto Noodle bars like that? I'd like to save the clamp area for my bell and speedometer. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end ³Silver Shifters²
For what it's worth, I have silver shifters and a Shimano 12-27 cassette on my Sam, and it shifts exceedingly well. Because of it I have fallen in love with friction shifting, and have turned off the indexing on my Fisher monster cross (Shimano 9 speed barcons, custom 12-32 cassette). On the Fisher, I regularly get unintentional shifts, especially in the big cogs. Both cassettes are reasonably new, both chains are reasonably new SRAM. Haven't swapped things around to isolate the culprit, but my suspicion is that the Shimano shifter in friction can't be adjusted in similarly small increments. Gernot On Aug 18, 11:21 pm, CycloFiend wrote: > on 8/18/10 8:17 AM, JLa at [email protected] wrote: > > > Is there anyone else using the ³Silver Shifters² with Shimano 9 speed > > 11-34. I¹m wondering if it¹s really so that they don¹t work together > > well - or is it just about the technique? > > The main challanges with 9 speed gearing and friction shifting are that (1) > you don't have as much margin for error as fewer rear sprockets (8, 7, 6, > 5...), and (2) _everything_ about the design of the sprockets is designed to > let the chain shift smoothly and quickly to a different sprocket. (In the > olden days, you had to pretty significantly over-shift, then trim back - > now, you kind of "nudge" it into the next gear). > > You can definitely use friction shifting with 9 speed setups. You'll learn > the discrete amount you need to shift and it will become second nature. It > might also help to find what works for your riding style and hand position. > I find that for me, keeping my thumb and forefinger on the bars supplies a > reference - I shift up with my wrist and the little and ring finger and down > with the heel of my palm. Taking your hand completely off the bar to shift > is a little less specific. > > -- > Jim Edgar > [email protected] > > ³Velvet pillows, safari parks, sunglasses: people have become woolly mice. > They still have bodies that can walk for five days and four nights through a > desert of snow, without food, but they accept praise for having taken a > one-hour bicycle ride.² - Tim Krabbe, "The Rider" > > Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > Current Classics - Cross Bikes > Singlespeed - Working Bikes > > Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
I ride a 9 speed/11-32 and an 8 speed12/30 with barend Silvers. Both work flawlessly. Disclaimer...I live on a big hill, and most of my riding includes big hills. I get a lot of practice. Also, I've been using friction shifting pretty much my whole life so it seems second nature. Not sure I could describe my method but I do recommend "letting up" a little when shifting under load. Small shifts are fine going up steep hills (1-2 cogs) but don't expect to jump from the little rings to the biggies (3 or more cogs) without some clanking. If I get caught on a really steep hill without getting in the proper gear (does happen occassionally) I'll do a little circle or stop and lift the rear wheel shifting into the big cogs rather than try force it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
I use 8-speed on all the Rivendells. Silver shifters with an 8speed SRAM 11-32 cassette. I use a normal rise rear derailleur, and I can absolutely shove it from the second-largest to the largest cog under load silently. Shifting to a smaller cog is already lightly loaded, because I'm shifting to a smaller cog for a reason, so that shift is great, too. I do sometimes undershift a hair and get some in between cog chain noise because the ramped modern cogsets want to shift, but that's just a trim excercise. Silver shifters are very cool and very smooth, and friction shifting is so very easy to maintain, but still, I'd advise Shimano index for anyone who might get frustrated with any of the technique aspects. My Bombadil, with 8 speed index on Paul Thumbies is the best shifting bike I've ever ridden. Absolutely flawless. So if you wanted to try any new parts, I'd put a +1 for possibly trying an 8-speed cogset, and a +1 for possibly trying Shimano barcon shifters. Remember they have the friction option if you want to grouch-out retro-wise. On Aug 18, 8:17 am, JLa wrote: > Thanks for all the replys. > > My bike is quite new and the shifting is fine other than the largest > cogs. If the problem was with derailleur hanger, would it affect all > the gears? > > If forgot to say that the cassette is 9 speed (11-34). > > Grant Petersen's advice on the Shifting page on rivbike.com sounds > good. > > I think I have two different problems. First, it’s really hard for me > to get exact shifts with the biggest cogs with “Silver Shifters” and > secondly I had wrong technique (or no technique at all) on upphills. > > I guess I need to go out and practice the shifting with the biggest > cogs and then try Grant Petersen's advice on uphills - to first pedal > hard for a stroke to get up a small bit of speed and the pedal lightly > and shift. > > Is there anyone else using the “Silver Shifters” with Shimano 9 speed > 11-34. I’m wondering if it’s really so that they don’t work together > well - or is it just about the technique? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
Thanks for all the replys. My bike is quite new and the shifting is fine other than the largest cogs. If the problem was with derailleur hanger, would it affect all the gears? If forgot to say that the cassette is 9 speed (11-34). Grant Petersen's advice on the Shifting page on rivbike.com sounds good. I think I have two different problems. First, it’s really hard for me to get exact shifts with the biggest cogs with “Silver Shifters” and secondly I had wrong technique (or no technique at all) on upphills. I guess I need to go out and practice the shifting with the biggest cogs and then try Grant Petersen's advice on uphills - to first pedal hard for a stroke to get up a small bit of speed and the pedal lightly and shift. Is there anyone else using the “Silver Shifters” with Shimano 9 speed 11-34. I’m wondering if it’s really so that they don’t work together well - or is it just about the technique? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
On two different bikes I use Silver downtube shifters with 7 speed IRD freewheels and Campy Mirage and a Champ rear derailleur. I can't believe how well this works in comparison to 70's-80's top end Campy (Record/Super Record). I stil have to ease off a little to down shift while climbing but, as already stated, some of us have been doing that all along and can't stop even when using indexed shifing. On Aug 16, 11:27 am, Juhani Laitela wrote: > I’ve some difficulties with friction shifting with my Dia Compe bar > end “Silver Shifters”. > > They work fine when I’ve my bike in repair stand and also when riding > on flat or downhill, but when climbing uphill, especially with some > load and on steeper hill, the rear cogs really make noise when > shifting to the biggest cogs (with the smallest chainring). I’m almost > afraid the cogs are going to brake or something. I’ve the problem when > shifting both to bigger and smaller cogs when riding uphill and using > the bigger cogs. > > My rear derailler is Shimano XT low-normal / rapid rise, cassette > Shimano XT 11-34 and chain Shimano XT. Cranks are Sugino XD2 46/36/26. > The chain length is like Sheldon Browns recommends. > > I’ve been trying different strategies on shifting as well as reducing > the pedal pressure. The latter almost to the point of loosing my speed > altogether. > > I’d appreciate any help or guidance with my problem. Maybe I’m just > too new to the shifters (around 500 miles), but I feel like I’m just > not getting it :( > > J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
While I like and use the Silver shifters on my Sam Hillborne, that bike has a 7 speed freewheel. Did try it with an eight speed cassette and did not like the shifting characteristics. Seemed to my fingerbrain that the correct spot was right between "clicks" on the the shifter, so nothing was really and truly smooth. Again, that's me. And with seven it is indeed heaven. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Aug 17, 6:44 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 16:11 -0700, reynoldslugs wrote: > > Steve: my post referred to my experience with 9 sp cassettes. I do > > use Silvers on 7 speed freewheels (13-28) and 9 speed 12-27's, but > > I've never tried a wide range 7 speed (like your 13-30). > > I asked because I couldn't make it work satisfactorily with an 8 speed > cassette, but found 7 speed's wider spacing to make all the difference. > The 8 that didn't work was an 11-28. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
Steve: my post referred to my experience with 9 sp cassettes. I do use Silvers on 7 speed freewheels (13-28) and 9 speed 12-27's, but I've never tried a wide range 7 speed (like your 13-30). On Aug 17, 2:34 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 14:22 -0700, reynoldslugs wrote: > > I have the same setup on several bikes, and had the same problem. > > Even after a successful shift, the chain skipped a lot when using the > > three biggest cogs on the rear cassette. On my bikes that have the > > 11-34 or 12-34 rear cassette, I have switched over to Shimano indexed > > bar-end shifters, which have completely solved the problem. > > > I find that Silver shifters work fine on 12-27 cassettes, but for some > > reason don't like the larger cassettes. I'd suggest you go with the > > indexed shimano bar end shifters. > > You don't mention how many sprockets. I'm using a 7 speed 13-30 with > the Sun Tour Sprints and shifting is just fine. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
I have the same setup on several bikes, and had the same problem. Even after a successful shift, the chain skipped a lot when using the three biggest cogs on the rear cassette. On my bikes that have the 11-34 or 12-34 rear cassette, I have switched over to Shimano indexed bar-end shifters, which have completely solved the problem. I find that Silver shifters work fine on 12-27 cassettes, but for some reason don't like the larger cassettes. I'd suggest you go with the indexed shimano bar end shifters. On Aug 16, 11:27 am, Juhani Laitela wrote: > I’ve some difficulties with friction shifting with my Dia Compe bar > end “Silver Shifters”. > > They work fine when I’ve my bike in repair stand and also when riding > on flat or downhill, but when climbing uphill, especially with some > load and on steeper hill, the rear cogs really make noise when > shifting to the biggest cogs (with the smallest chainring). I’m almost > afraid the cogs are going to brake or something. I’ve the problem when > shifting both to bigger and smaller cogs when riding uphill and using > the bigger cogs. > > My rear derailler is Shimano XT low-normal / rapid rise, cassette > Shimano XT 11-34 and chain Shimano XT. Cranks are Sugino XD2 46/36/26. > The chain length is like Sheldon Browns recommends. > > I’ve been trying different strategies on shifting as well as reducing > the pedal pressure. The latter almost to the point of loosing my speed > altogether. > > I’d appreciate any help or guidance with my problem. Maybe I’m just > too new to the shifters (around 500 miles), but I feel like I’m just > not getting it :( > > J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
I think what he meant is the general comment that the more pressure you have on the pedals, the harder it is for your drivetrain to execute a shift. Selecting the right gear and sticking with it for the entire hill is one approach. The single speeders here certainly know what that feels like. Another approach that I use is that when you want to shift, pedal much harder to get some extra speed going. Then let way off on the pedal pressure long enough to execute your shift. I'm talking about something like two or three hard strokes and one light stroke to do your shift. This is more necessary on the front than in the back, but its a good policy either way. On Aug 17, 3:52 am, Juhani Laitela wrote: > Thanks for the answer. > > I guess I need to go to the closest hills and ride around until I > learn how to shift :) > > Did you mean that for the steeper hills, before it gets steep I should > figure out a gear that I can maintain the whole hill? So I actually > wouldn't shift at all when riding uphill? > > 2010/8/17 Jim Cloud : > > > > > When you're shifting while climbing you really need to anticipate a > > shift and begin changing gears before the grade of the hill becomes > > steeper. If you're trying to shift with any substantial pressure on > > the pedals there's too much tension on the chain to allow the > > derailleur to move the chain up on the cogs. If you've gotten into > > the grade and cannot easily shift it's better to dismount and spin the > > pedals as you lift the rear wheel and move the shifter lever to get > > into a gear you can maintain on the grade. Keep practicing, it will > > become second nature to anticipate a gear change in advance of the > > increasing grade of a hill. > > > Good Luck! > > Jim Cloud > > Tucson, AZ > > > On Aug 16, 11:27 am, Juhani Laitela wrote: > >> I’ve some difficulties with friction shifting with my Dia Compe bar > >> end “Silver Shifters”. > > >> They work fine when I’ve my bike in repair stand and also when riding > >> on flat or downhill, but when climbing uphill, especially with some > >> load and on steeper hill, the rear cogs really make noise when > >> shifting to the biggest cogs (with the smallest chainring). I’m almost > >> afraid the cogs are going to brake or something. I’ve the problem when > >> shifting both to bigger and smaller cogs when riding uphill and using > >> the bigger cogs. > > >> My rear derailler is Shimano XT low-normal / rapid rise, cassette > >> Shimano XT 11-34 and chain Shimano XT. Cranks are Sugino XD2 46/36/26. > >> The chain length is like Sheldon Browns recommends. > > >> I’ve been trying different strategies on shifting as well as reducing > >> the pedal pressure. The latter almost to the point of loosing my speed > >> altogether. > > >> I’d appreciate any help or guidance with my problem. Maybe I’m just > >> too new to the shifters (around 500 miles), but I feel like I’m just > >> not getting it :( > > >> J > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
Thanks for the answer. I guess I need to go to the closest hills and ride around until I learn how to shift :) Did you mean that for the steeper hills, before it gets steep I should figure out a gear that I can maintain the whole hill? So I actually wouldn't shift at all when riding uphill? 2010/8/17 Jim Cloud : > > When you're shifting while climbing you really need to anticipate a > shift and begin changing gears before the grade of the hill becomes > steeper. If you're trying to shift with any substantial pressure on > the pedals there's too much tension on the chain to allow the > derailleur to move the chain up on the cogs. If you've gotten into > the grade and cannot easily shift it's better to dismount and spin the > pedals as you lift the rear wheel and move the shifter lever to get > into a gear you can maintain on the grade. Keep practicing, it will > become second nature to anticipate a gear change in advance of the > increasing grade of a hill. > > Good Luck! > Jim Cloud > Tucson, AZ > > On Aug 16, 11:27 am, Juhani Laitela wrote: >> I’ve some difficulties with friction shifting with my Dia Compe bar >> end “Silver Shifters”. >> >> They work fine when I’ve my bike in repair stand and also when riding >> on flat or downhill, but when climbing uphill, especially with some >> load and on steeper hill, the rear cogs really make noise when >> shifting to the biggest cogs (with the smallest chainring). I’m almost >> afraid the cogs are going to brake or something. I’ve the problem when >> shifting both to bigger and smaller cogs when riding uphill and using >> the bigger cogs. >> >> My rear derailler is Shimano XT low-normal / rapid rise, cassette >> Shimano XT 11-34 and chain Shimano XT. Cranks are Sugino XD2 46/36/26. >> The chain length is like Sheldon Browns recommends. >> >> I’ve been trying different strategies on shifting as well as reducing >> the pedal pressure. The latter almost to the point of loosing my speed >> altogether. >> >> I’d appreciate any help or guidance with my problem. Maybe I’m just >> too new to the shifters (around 500 miles), but I feel like I’m just >> not getting it :( >> >> J > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Friction shifting with Dia Compe bar end “Silver Shifters”
When you're shifting while climbing you really need to anticipate a shift and begin changing gears before the grade of the hill becomes steeper. If you're trying to shift with any substantial pressure on the pedals there's too much tension on the chain to allow the derailleur to move the chain up on the cogs. If you've gotten into the grade and cannot easily shift it's better to dismount and spin the pedals as you lift the rear wheel and move the shifter lever to get into a gear you can maintain on the grade. Keep practicing, it will become second nature to anticipate a gear change in advance of the increasing grade of a hill. Good Luck! Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Aug 16, 11:27 am, Juhani Laitela wrote: > I’ve some difficulties with friction shifting with my Dia Compe bar > end “Silver Shifters”. > > They work fine when I’ve my bike in repair stand and also when riding > on flat or downhill, but when climbing uphill, especially with some > load and on steeper hill, the rear cogs really make noise when > shifting to the biggest cogs (with the smallest chainring). I’m almost > afraid the cogs are going to brake or something. I’ve the problem when > shifting both to bigger and smaller cogs when riding uphill and using > the bigger cogs. > > My rear derailler is Shimano XT low-normal / rapid rise, cassette > Shimano XT 11-34 and chain Shimano XT. Cranks are Sugino XD2 46/36/26. > The chain length is like Sheldon Browns recommends. > > I’ve been trying different strategies on shifting as well as reducing > the pedal pressure. The latter almost to the point of loosing my speed > altogether. > > I’d appreciate any help or guidance with my problem. Maybe I’m just > too new to the shifters (around 500 miles), but I feel like I’m just > not getting it :( > > J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
