Re: [RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
They work fine. In fact they worked wonderfully with the reverse pull LX rd that came with the Sam Hill -- best shifting rd/shifter combo I've used, except for the fact that it worked in reverse. The shifter doesn't care which way the spring pulls the cage; hell, it probably doesn't even know! On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Jay LePree wrote: > > Hi all: > > This has been an interesting thread. Does anyone know if the ratcheting > mechanism was designed for "normal" rear detailers? Has anyone used these > with the derailers that RIv once sold where the spring tension moved the > derailer upward toward larger cogs? How did they work with that derailer? > > Jay > Demarest, NJ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- __ BUSINESS BUILDING COME-ON!! $300 off a $600 resume + letter or Linked In profile package with referral that leads to full price sale! Refer two full-pay clients and you get the package for free! I am not cheap, but I am very good. So they say. Patrick Moore, Ph.D, MBA, ACRW, Albuquerque, NM, USA http://resumespecialties.com/index.html * [email protected] __ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
On Sun, 2013-03-10 at 04:37 -0700, Jay LePree wrote: > > Hi all: > > > This has been an interesting thread. Does anyone know if the > ratcheting mechanism was designed for "normal" rear detailers? Yes, most definitely. SunTour had backwards-acting front derailleurs, but never made any backwards rear derailleurs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
Hi all: This has been an interesting thread. Does anyone know if the ratcheting mechanism was designed for "normal" rear detailers? Has anyone used these with the derailers that RIv once sold where the spring tension moved the derailer upward toward larger cogs? How did they work with that derailer? Jay Demarest, NJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
Of course, but the context of my reply was ghost shifting related to shift levers. On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Sat, 2013-03-09 at 10:24 -0700, PATRICK MOORE wrote: >> The ratcheting system basically allows you to keep the shift lever >> nice and tight without making the lever hard to move; this by allowing >> the friction to retard only in the direction of the derailleurs' >> spring pull. This means that you can make a Silver nice and tight -- >> tight enough to prevent any ghost shifting from lever slippage while >> keeping the levers' movement light enough for ease of use. With your >> basic non-ratcheting shift lever, like the old Record type, you can >> tighten them down plenty tight to prevent slippage and thus ghost >> shifting, but the lever will be hard to move. > > It should be noted, however, that most of the time when "ghost shifting" > is discussed here, we are NOT talking about lever slippage, but rather > the difficulty of friction shifting a Hyperglide drivetrain that does > not provide much in the way of audible feedback to let you know you're > properly centered, and is by design especially eager to shift. > > The usual "ghost shifting" scenario involves downshifting in > anticipation of stopping at a stop sign or traffic light (and you think > you've made a perfect shift), then starting back up and having the drive > train auto-upshift with a huge crash as soon as you put pressure on the > pedals. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- __ BUSINESS BUILDING COME-ON!! $300 off a $600 resume + letter or Linked In profile package with referral that leads to full price sale! Refer two full-pay clients and you get the package for free! I am not cheap, but I am very good. So they say. Patrick Moore, Ph.D, MBA, ACRW, Albuquerque, NM, USA http://resumespecialties.com/index.html * [email protected] __ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
On Sat, 2013-03-09 at 10:24 -0700, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > The ratcheting system basically allows you to keep the shift lever > nice and tight without making the lever hard to move; this by allowing > the friction to retard only in the direction of the derailleurs' > spring pull. This means that you can make a Silver nice and tight -- > tight enough to prevent any ghost shifting from lever slippage while > keeping the levers' movement light enough for ease of use. With your > basic non-ratcheting shift lever, like the old Record type, you can > tighten them down plenty tight to prevent slippage and thus ghost > shifting, but the lever will be hard to move. It should be noted, however, that most of the time when "ghost shifting" is discussed here, we are NOT talking about lever slippage, but rather the difficulty of friction shifting a Hyperglide drivetrain that does not provide much in the way of audible feedback to let you know you're properly centered, and is by design especially eager to shift. The usual "ghost shifting" scenario involves downshifting in anticipation of stopping at a stop sign or traffic light (and you think you've made a perfect shift), then starting back up and having the drive train auto-upshift with a huge crash as soon as you put pressure on the pedals. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
Here's a couple of pics of one that's been hanging out in my desk drawer. This one is obviously very well used, rusty, and it no longer work (it slips like mad which is why it's in my desk drawer). I'd like to see a new one to compare the height of the ratchets. http://www.flickr.com/photos/77502424@N00/ Rob On Mar 9, 10:03 am, Jim Mather wrote: > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Michael wrote: > >> So this ratchetting keeps the lever in place? > >> Does that mean no ghost shifting will occur with a Silver Shifter? > > Ghost shifting can occur with any shifter, including Silvers and index > shifters. As our peerless list master pointed out in an earlier post, > ghost shifting can have several causes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Michael wrote: >> So this ratchetting keeps the lever in place? >> Does that mean no ghost shifting will occur with a Silver Shifter? Ghost shifting can occur with any shifter, including Silvers and index shifters. As our peerless list master pointed out in an earlier post, ghost shifting can have several causes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
The ratcheting system basically allows you to keep the shift lever nice and tight without making the lever hard to move; this by allowing the friction to retard only in the direction of the derailleurs' spring pull. This means that you can make a Silver nice and tight -- tight enough to prevent any ghost shifting from lever slippage while keeping the levers' movement light enough for ease of use. With your basic non-ratcheting shift lever, like the old Record type, you can tighten them down plenty tight to prevent slippage and thus ghost shifting, but the lever will be hard to move. (I know that Records tend to come loose, too, but that is not the relevant point here.) The principal benefit of Silvers and Simplexes and such is not that they prevent slipping -- any lever can be adjusted to prevent slipping -- but that when they are properly tightened they still allow a wonderful light touch. The length of the Silver lever makes this light touch even lighter, as does the small barrel of the Simplex Retrofriction (which never slipped for me -- if it did, I'd just tighten the screws some more). On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Michael wrote: >> So this ratchetting keeps the lever in place? >> Does that mean no ghost shifting will occur with a Silver Shifter? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- __ BUSINESS BUILDING COME-ON!! $300 off a $600 resume + letter or Linked In profile package with referral that leads to full price sale! Refer two full-pay clients and you get the package for free! I am not cheap, but I am very good. So they say. Patrick Moore, Ph.D, MBA, ACRW, Albuquerque, NM, USA http://resumespecialties.com/index.html * [email protected] __ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
> > So this ratchetting keeps the lever in place? > Does that mean no ghost shifting will occur with a Silver Shifter? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
Tom Generally, people just swap their two pulleys if they want to try going with less top-pulley play -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
Sorry for being dense, but does this mean you swapped the guide pulley WITH the tension pulley? Or you swapped them both for an unnamed replacement? I would like to try it... - Excessive guide pulley play. Again - part of the system these days. > This play allows a dumb system - i.e. any indexed system - to adapt to > slight changes in position by adding imprecision at the cogs. Good if you > are stacking 11 sprockets on the wheel and want to use indexing, but a > challenge if you want to manually shift. I have swapped guide and jockey > (tension) pulleys to good effect. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
Frame flex is reasonably unlikely to be the culprit on most bicycles. There are a few points to check - - Rear Derailleur Hanger. These get bent and twisted. For friction systems, the twisting is more of the issue, as it puts the guide (upper) pulley out of line with the chain path. Essentially, this tries to tease the chain to the next sprocket even when everything is correctly positioned. - Modern sprocket (cog) sets. It is reasonably difficult to find a cogset which is not designed to easily assist in shifting. That's how the all-in-one type indexing works - those little ramps and cut-downs on the teeth and sprockets. Add a little road grit or globs of mud and it "adds" another ramp. In generally, the teeth also tend to be shorter than old-tyme freewheel sprockets. They are also reasonably thin and in my experience, wear down faster. - Excessive guide pulley play. Again - part of the system these days. This play allows a dumb system - i.e. any indexed system - to adapt to slight changes in position by adding imprecision at the cogs. Good if you are stacking 11 sprockets on the wheel and want to use indexing, but a challenge if you want to manually shift. I have swapped guide and jockey (tension) pulleys to good effect. - Cables, tips, housing. This should probably have been number one. All sorts of variables here - crimped housing, ends/tips out of round and hanging the cable, grit in the housing, too big or small of a loop at the rear derailleur. Best cheap gift you can give your bicycle is a new set of cables and housing. - Shifter Bits - washers get compressed, and when you are using tension to hold things in place, you can simply squeeze things too tightly for too long. I know when I have a little imprecision in shifting, the first thing I do is honk down on the thumbscrew. Easy to go a 1/4 turn when an 1/8 will do. Hope that helps, - Jim / cyclofiend.com On Friday, March 8, 2013 9:44:03 AM UTC-8, ColonelJLloyd wrote: > > That's correct. I have trouble with my Simplex Retrofrictions slipping > when climbing. I assume this is due to a combination of a very strong rear > derailleur spring and frame flex. > > On Friday, March 8, 2013 11:30:05 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote: >> >> Looks like a mini-ratchetting system. Like micro-indexing or something. >> >> So I am guessing that when you shift gears, the ratchet mechanism holds >> the derailer in place over the cog so you will not have the chain slip off >> if it isn't a perfect shift, like what happens in pure friction shifting? >> >> That would be a nice improvement over friction, as I have had the chain >> drop to higher gear when standing. Ouch!! >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: How do Silver Shifters work?
That's correct. I have trouble with my Simplex Retrofrictions slipping when climbing. I assume this is due to a combination of a very strong rear derailleur spring and frame flex. On Friday, March 8, 2013 11:30:05 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote: > > Looks like a mini-ratchetting system. Like micro-indexing or something. > > So I am guessing that when you shift gears, the ratchet mechanism holds > the derailer in place over the cog so you will not have the chain slip off > if it isn't a perfect shift, like what happens in pure friction shifting? > > That would be a nice improvement over friction, as I have had the chain > drop to higher gear when standing. Ouch!! > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
