[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-23 Thread 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch
No no no no no.The old school way is the "smoke while you tighten it" 
method.

On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 1:33:21 AM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Wait, I thought the old school way was the "tighten it 'til it smokes" 
> method.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-22 Thread Joe Decker
Michael,

I use Snap-On torque wrenches exclusively for work, and as such I ended up 
with a set of four that I can also use on my bikes.  When I'm flying down 
hills in excess of 30mph, I like to know that everything on my bikes has 
been torqued properly.  Peace of mind is worth the money in my opinion.  I 
have used other brands, but none stack up to the Snap-On wrenches, in my 
opinion.  Unfortunately, they are probably the most expensive as well.  
Good luck.

-Joe

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Re: [RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread George Schick
Michael - Based on everything you've had to say about physiological issues, 
I'd say go for the Sears tool.  Looks like a reasonably priced, well placed 
for bike work solution.

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 5:12:01 PM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> OP here.  To answer some questions.  Why do I want to move to a click 
> style torque wrench?  For most of the 35+ years as an adult riding and 
> working on bikes I felt very comfortable with my internal sense of whether 
> a bolt was tight or not.  I don't ride carbon and it never occurred to me 
> to use a torque wrench.  Time marches on; the hands, arms, and back loose 
> strength slowly and our judgment gets compromised.  In the last five years 
> I have overtightened and broken the clamp on a very good Chorus FD;  I have 
> also undertightened and eventually damaged a very good Record FD.  I have 
> undertigtened the left side of a crank arm, at which point I started using 
> my ratchet instead of allen keys and bought a beam style torque wrench to 
> double check crank bolts.  I found I couldn't hold the tool in tension and 
> bend over far enough to read it accurately.  (I have to admit that at that 
> point I had never seen nor heard of click style torque wrenches.)  This 
> summer, while up in Ontario for the Canadian Tandem Rally I heard the 
>  irritating clicking of  not tight enough chain ring bolts (tandems have 15 
> of em and how tight are they supposed to be anyway).  That's when I began 
> to think it would be wise to check my  judgement with a tool. 
>
> I found this AC Delco on the Sears web site. 
> http://www.sears.com/durofix-ac-delco-power-tools-durofix-ac-delco-power/p-SPM7423422303?prdNo=28&blockNo=28&blockType=G28
>  
>  It's 2 -37 ft/lbs seems perfect for bike work.
>
> Bill, thanks for your feedback about subject lines.  What was I thinking?
>
> Michael
>
>
> On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Me, I use mine only for crank bolts; this after cracking a very expensive 
>> Topline Superlight crank, some 18 years ago, by torquing down the mounting 
>> bolts too enthusiastically. 
>>
>> OTOH, if you adjust your bike with vise grips and pipe wrench, you really 
>> don't need to worry.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Scott McLain  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, I am relatively new here and don't want to sound like a heretic, 
>>> but I personally don't use a torque wrench.  Certain torque wrenches need 
>>> to be re-calibrated periodically.  I would be curious to know what bolt 
>>> connection the riv folks use a torque wrench for versus just putting things 
>>> on using common sense.  
>>>
>>> I bought a new bike many years back from a new shop and the owner built 
>>> it up, all using a torque wrench.  I was there as he was finishing up.  I 
>>> was impressed.  I thought, wow he's using a torque wrench.  Well on my 
>>> first ride, my handle bars and my crank was loose... very loose.  
>>> Obviously, he needed a new torque wrench or to have his calibrated.
>>>
>>> I love the appeal that come with using a torque wrench, but I think you 
>>> still want to use common sense.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread Michael Hechmer
OP here.  To answer some questions.  Why do I want to move to a click style 
torque wrench?  For most of the 35+ years as an adult riding and working on 
bikes I felt very comfortable with my internal sense of whether a bolt was 
tight or not.  I don't ride carbon and it never occurred to me to use a 
torque wrench.  Time marches on; the hands, arms, and back loose strength 
slowly and our judgment gets compromised.  In the last five years I have 
overtightened and broken the clamp on a very good Chorus FD;  I have also 
undertightened and eventually damaged a very good Record FD.  I have 
undertigtened the left side of a crank arm, at which point I started using 
my ratchet instead of allen keys and bought a beam style torque wrench to 
double check crank bolts.  I found I couldn't hold the tool in tension and 
bend over far enough to read it accurately.  (I have to admit that at that 
point I had never seen nor heard of click style torque wrenches.)  This 
summer, while up in Ontario for the Canadian Tandem Rally I heard the 
 irritating clicking of  not tight enough chain ring bolts (tandems have 15 
of em and how tight are they supposed to be anyway).  That's when I began 
to think it would be wise to check my  judgement with a tool. 

I found this AC Delco on the Sears web 
site. 
http://www.sears.com/durofix-ac-delco-power-tools-durofix-ac-delco-power/p-SPM7423422303?prdNo=28&blockNo=28&blockType=G28
 
 It's 2 -37 ft/lbs seems perfect for bike work.

Bill, thanks for your feedback about subject lines.  What was I thinking?

Michael


On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 5:14:33 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Me, I use mine only for crank bolts; this after cracking a very expensive 
> Topline Superlight crank, some 18 years ago, by torquing down the mounting 
> bolts too enthusiastically. 
>
> OTOH, if you adjust your bike with vise grips and pipe wrench, you really 
> don't need to worry.
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Scott McLain  > wrote:
>
>> Okay, I am relatively new here and don't want to sound like a heretic, 
>> but I personally don't use a torque wrench.  Certain torque wrenches need 
>> to be re-calibrated periodically.  I would be curious to know what bolt 
>> connection the riv folks use a torque wrench for versus just putting things 
>> on using common sense.  
>>
>> I bought a new bike many years back from a new shop and the owner built 
>> it up, all using a torque wrench.  I was there as he was finishing up.  I 
>> was impressed.  I thought, wow he's using a torque wrench.  Well on my 
>> first ride, my handle bars and my crank was loose... very loose.  
>> Obviously, he needed a new torque wrench or to have his calibrated.
>>
>> I love the appeal that come with using a torque wrench, but I think you 
>> still want to use common sense.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread Patrick Moore
Me, I use mine only for crank bolts; this after cracking a very expensive
Topline Superlight crank, some 18 years ago, by torquing down the mounting
bolts too enthusiastically.

OTOH, if you adjust your bike with vise grips and pipe wrench, you really
don't need to worry.

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Scott McLain 
wrote:

> Okay, I am relatively new here and don't want to sound like a heretic, but
> I personally don't use a torque wrench.  Certain torque wrenches need to be
> re-calibrated periodically.  I would be curious to know what bolt
> connection the riv folks use a torque wrench for versus just putting things
> on using common sense.
>
> I bought a new bike many years back from a new shop and the owner built it
> up, all using a torque wrench.  I was there as he was finishing up.  I was
> impressed.  I thought, wow he's using a torque wrench.  Well on my first
> ride, my handle bars and my crank was loose... very loose.  Obviously, he
> needed a new torque wrench or to have his calibrated.
>
> I love the appeal that come with using a torque wrench, but I think you
> still want to use common sense.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread George Schick
What Howard and Scott said.  Frankly, the only reason I use one at all on 
the cassette lock ring is because the underside of the ring has that 
serrated surface to keep it from loosening that makes a clicking noise as 
you tighten.  So it's somewhat difficult to know if you haven't gone 
far enough (therefore affecting shifting) or went too far (risking 
stripping the threads).  It's nice to use one for the PW BB fixing rings, 
too, to prevent too much side load on the cartridge bearings, but you can 
get by without one just by the feel of the axle.  As a side comment to what 
Howard said, too, I knew guys who worked assembly lines in auto factories 
and after using a torque wrench initially to get the feel for how much 
effort to apply to the fastener, they ditched it for a regular ratchet 
wrench and inspections would indicate that they were right one the money.

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 3:27:01 PM UTC-5, Howard Hatten wrote:
>
> Before I retired I worked in an automotive product test lab. We torqued 
> every fastener before testing. We utilized beam, click, & electronic type 
> torque wrenches. They all required periodic recalibration. 
> Personally I don't use a torque wrench anywhere on my bikes. Hope I'm not 
> screwing up. 
>
> Howard
> Livonia Mi
>

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[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread Howard Hatten
Before I retired I worked in an automotive product test lab. We torqued every 
fastener before testing. We utilized beam, click, & electronic type torque 
wrenches. They all required periodic recalibration. 
Personally I don't use a torque wrench anywhere on my bikes. Hope I'm not 
screwing up. 

Howard
Livonia Mi

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[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread Scott McLain
Okay, I am relatively new here and don't want to sound like a heretic, but 
I personally don't use a torque wrench.  Certain torque wrenches need to be 
re-calibrated periodically.  I would be curious to know what bolt 
connection the riv folks use a torque wrench for versus just putting things 
on using common sense.  

I bought a new bike many years back from a new shop and the owner built it 
up, all using a torque wrench.  I was there as he was finishing up.  I was 
impressed.  I thought, wow he's using a torque wrench.  Well on my first 
ride, my handle bars and my crank was loose... very loose.  Obviously, he 
needed a new torque wrench or to have his calibrated.

I love the appeal that come with using a torque wrench, but I think you 
still want to use common sense.

Best,
Scott

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 4:23:22 AM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I am an old man in a dry month,
> Being read to by a boy waiting for the rain.
>   T.S. Eliot
>
> Yep, guys in lycra now go by so fast they don''t have time to say hello. 
>  I see that my bike repair manual has a 1981 copyright.  My tools are all 
> pretty much old too, but aging better than me.  Arthritis in my left hand, 
> and I can no longer trust the strength in my arms to tell me when a bolt is 
> tight enough.   I can't hold the old beam style torque wrench and bend over 
> to read it at the same time.
>
> So, I need a one of those "new" clique style, or electronic torque 
> wrench.  But which one?  and ouch look at the price!  I looked at a 
> Craftsman, but the online reviews were not encouraging.  Ditto, 
> surprisingly, for Park.  And of course for complete bike coverage one 
> really needs two torque wrenches.  Topeak sells one that covers the full 
> range of our needs but there are no dealers here in northern VT, so I would 
> have to go to Quebec and buy one with the owners manual in French.  Or, 
> sight unseen, online, for a whopping $269.
>
> What's your experience?
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread Garth
   No offense taken !  ... it's not my error , I just posted the link. It's 
foot pounds Ron ,  the title alone is off, but the description clearly 
clarifies.  Who on earth would make a such wrench for only 250 in-lb ?  No 
one of course ! 


On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 10:55:25 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> no offense, but 250 lb-in won't tighten many crank bolts, much less bottom 
> brackets or cassette locking rings.  
>
> On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 7:30:52 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>I would not buy or recommend an electronic tool let alone torque 
>> wrench, ever !   If you want a real good one get a Snap-On, which may be a 
>> bit much, but Snap-On has an industrial brand called CDI and sell still top 
>> quality without the Snap-On title name and $$$.  Here is a 1/2" and 3/8" as 
>> a *suggestion* :
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-CDI-2502MRPH-Adjustable-250-Inch-Pounds/dp/B001VXRYG8
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-CDI-2503MFRPH-Adjustable-Micrometer/dp/B000KL4H80
>>
>>  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread Ron Mc
no offense, but 250 lb-in won't tighten many crank bolts, much less bottom 
brackets or cassette locking rings.  

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 7:30:52 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
>
>
>I would not buy or recommend an electronic tool let alone torque 
> wrench, ever !   If you want a real good one get a Snap-On, which may be a 
> bit much, but Snap-On has an industrial brand called CDI and sell still top 
> quality without the Snap-On title name and $$$.  Here is a 1/2" and 3/8" as 
> a *suggestion* :
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-CDI-2502MRPH-Adjustable-250-Inch-Pounds/dp/B001VXRYG8
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-CDI-2503MFRPH-Adjustable-Micrometer/dp/B000KL4H80
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread George Schick
Don't feel too bad; I'm right there with you - takes me a half hour every 
morning to stretch the stiffness and soreness out of my lower back and 
hamstrings before I can put on my shoes.  I can't speak to the current 
trends in torque wrenches; I have a Craftsman non-electronic "click" style 
that I bought way back in the late 70's for mainly automotive use that 
seems to work OK.  Don't know how accurate it is, though.  I have a 
neighbor who is an absolute car nut - has two restored early 60's British 
sports cars in his garage - and he tells me that none of these digital or 
similar wrenches are as accurate as the older beam style.  But, just 
curious, what are you using it for?  The only two applications where I've 
felt that a torque wrench might really be necessary in bike maintenance is 
installing the fixing rings on a PW BB and tightening the lock ring on a 
cassette hub.

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 5:23:22 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I am an old man in a dry month,
> Being read to by a boy waiting for the rain.
>   T.S. Eliot
>
> Yep, guys in lycra now go by so fast they don''t have time to say hello. 
>  I see that my bike repair manual has a 1981 copyright.  My tools are all 
> pretty much old too, but aging better than me.  Arthritis in my left hand, 
> and I can no longer trust the strength in my arms to tell me when a bolt is 
> tight enough.   I can't hold the old beam style torque wrench and bend over 
> to read it at the same time.
>
> So, I need a one of those "new" clique style, or electronic torque 
> wrench.  But which one?  and ouch look at the price!  I looked at a 
> Craftsman, but the online reviews were not encouraging.  Ditto, 
> surprisingly, for Park.  And of course for complete bike coverage one 
> really needs two torque wrenches.  Topeak sells one that covers the full 
> range of our needs but there are no dealers here in northern VT, so I would 
> have to go to Quebec and buy one with the owners manual in French.  Or, 
> sight unseen, online, for a whopping $269.
>
> What's your experience?
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: I'm old but not dead yet

2016-07-21 Thread Garth


   I would not buy or recommend an electronic tool let alone torque wrench, 
ever !   If you want a real good one get a Snap-On, which may be a bit 
much, but Snap-On has an industrial brand called CDI and sell still top 
quality without the Snap-On title name and $$$.  Here is a 1/2" and 3/8" as 
a *suggestion* :

https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-CDI-2502MRPH-Adjustable-250-Inch-Pounds/dp/B001VXRYG8
https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-CDI-2503MFRPH-Adjustable-Micrometer/dp/B000KL4H80

 

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