Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-17 Thread Peter Morgano 
Ok, I am coming into this late but why the LOTR restrictions?  If that was
the case why dont they have to pay huge money to use the name rivendell?  I
am sure there is a story I am just ignorant of. Oh and shame Smoothie is
taken by SOMA, that would have been a shweet name for the bike.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Bill Carter  wrote:

> Too bad about the LOTR restriction, by the way. Wouldn't "Shadowfax"
> be a terrific bike name?  Lord of the horses of Rohan and Gandalf the
> White's noble steed.
>
> On Jan 13, 7:46 pm, Bill Carter  wrote:
> > The Sackvilles were quite grasping and obnoxious, disliked by both
> > Bilbo and Frodo.  One of Grant's more tongue-in-cheek allusions I
> > suspect.
> >
> > On Jan 12, 11:55 am, Ryan Ray  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were
> called
> > > Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another
> family
> > > in the Shire."
> >
> > > Ahhh. All is well.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-17 Thread Mike B 
Jacobus Fanciscus Thorpe   I think this should put an end to further 
discussion.

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-13 Thread Philip Williamson 
Excellent thought. More famous than Quickbeam, so probably off the
table. I think of Mark Abele's grey Rivendells when I think of a bike
called "Shadowfax."

 Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Jan 13, 4:54 pm, Bill Carter  wrote:
> Too bad about the LOTR restriction, by the way. Wouldn't "Shadowfax"
> be a terrific bike name?  Lord of the horses of Rohan and Gandalf the
> White's noble steed.
>
> On Jan 13, 7:46 pm, Bill Carter  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The Sackvilles were quite grasping and obnoxious, disliked by both
> > Bilbo and Frodo.  One of Grant's more tongue-in-cheek allusions I
> > suspect.
>
> > On Jan 12, 11:55 am, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
> > > I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were called
> > > Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another family
> > > in the Shire."
>
> > > Ahhh. All is well.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-13 Thread Tim McNamara 

On Jan 13, 2012, at 8:38 PM, Leslie wrote:

> 
> On Friday, January 13, 2012 7:54:54 PM UTC-5, Bill Carter wrote:
> Too bad about the LOTR restriction, by the way. Wouldn't "Shadowfax" 
> be a terrific bike name?  Lord of the horses of Rohan and Gandalf the 
> White's noble steed. 
> 
> On Jan 13, 7:46 pm, Bill Carter  wrote: 
> > The Sackvilles were quite grasping and obnoxious, disliked by both 
> > Bilbo and Frodo.  One of Grant's more tongue-in-cheek allusions I 
> > suspect. 
> > 
> > On Jan 12, 11:55 am, Ryan Ray  wrote: 
> > 
> > > I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were called 
> > > Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another 
> > > family 
> > > in the Shire." 
> 
> The Sackville-Bagginses, Lotho and his mother Lobelia... Actually, kinda 
> funny, I cringe at the name Sackville...  I shouldn't, they're lovely bags, 
> but I've been a huge LotR fan all my life, has always had a bad 
> connotation...  But on the other hand, it's a way to reference the Bagginses 
> without calling them Bagginses, I suppose...
> 
> Trying to stick w/ obscure LotR names that might not bring down the wrath of 
> corporations and movie makers, I might've picked Michael Delving to use 
> instead the name Nigel Smythe.   I also thought Mumakil would have been a 
> great name for the Hunqapillar.  

 Old Fatty Lumpkin- somewhat obscure- was paid tribute as well as Tom Bombadil. 
 I enjoyed the Fatty Lumpkin allusion a lot.

"Mathom" might be a good name for something.  "Mallyrn" (or "mallorn" in the 
Westron) could be a color choice, perhaps for a rain poncho.

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-13 Thread Leslie 

On Friday, January 13, 2012 7:54:54 PM UTC-5, Bill Carter wrote:
>
> Too bad about the LOTR restriction, by the way. Wouldn't "Shadowfax" 
> be a terrific bike name?  Lord of the horses of Rohan and Gandalf the 
> White's noble steed. 
>
> On Jan 13, 7:46 pm, Bill Carter  wrote: 
> > The Sackvilles were quite grasping and obnoxious, disliked by both 
> > Bilbo and Frodo.  One of Grant's more tongue-in-cheek allusions I 
> > suspect. 
> > 
> > On Jan 12, 11:55 am, Ryan Ray  wrote: 
> > 
> > > I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were 
> called 
> > > Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another 
> family 
> > > in the Shire." 
>

The Sackville-Bagginses, Lotho and his mother Lobelia... Actually, kinda 
funny, I cringe at the name Sackville...  I shouldn't, they're lovely bags, 
but I've been a huge LotR fan all my life, has always had a bad 
connotation...  But on the other hand, it's a way to reference the 
Bagginses without calling them Bagginses, I suppose...

Trying to stick w/ obscure LotR names that might not bring down the wrath 
of corporations and movie makers, I might've picked Michael Delving to use 
instead the name Nigel Smythe.   I also thought Mumakil would have been a 
great name for the Hunqapillar.  

-L  
 

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-13 Thread Bill Carter 
Too bad about the LOTR restriction, by the way. Wouldn't "Shadowfax"
be a terrific bike name?  Lord of the horses of Rohan and Gandalf the
White's noble steed.

On Jan 13, 7:46 pm, Bill Carter  wrote:
> The Sackvilles were quite grasping and obnoxious, disliked by both
> Bilbo and Frodo.  One of Grant's more tongue-in-cheek allusions I
> suspect.
>
> On Jan 12, 11:55 am, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were called
> > Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another family
> > in the Shire."
>
> > Ahhh. All is well.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-13 Thread Bill Carter 
The Sackvilles were quite grasping and obnoxious, disliked by both
Bilbo and Frodo.  One of Grant's more tongue-in-cheek allusions I
suspect.

On Jan 12, 11:55 am, Ryan Ray  wrote:
> I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were called
> Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another family
> in the Shire."
>
> Ahhh. All is well.

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-12 Thread Ryan Ray 
I was expressing my regret that I didn't buy a bag when they were called 
Baggins when he corrected me. "Actually the Sackvilles were another family 
in the Shire."

Ahhh. All is well.



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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-10 Thread ascpgh 
To make both an American citation and recognize cycling prowness of
Eddy Merckx I suggest the Alferd Packer, a Roadeo sequelae.

ANDY
Pittsburgh


On Jan 7, 12:25 am, Leslie  wrote:
> On Friday, January 6, 2012 5:19:36 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>
> > This is important.  I work with Native people, and appropriation of
> > culture by Euro-Americans without asking is just not a good thing.  Note
> > that the University of North Dakota officially discontinued its use of the
> > Fighting Sioux nickname the first of the year.  Sorry to get political
> > here, but this is such a respectful community that I feel I should pipe up.
> > -liesl
>
> Excellent point, with which I used to agree.  And, not that I completely
> disagree with it now, but my thoughts have evolved.   (I hesitate to say,
> but think I can respectfully do this, and it does relate, given GP's
> consideration of 'an Indian name'.) So, I'll give it a try...
>
> The community I grew up in near here is called Indian Springs (not the one
> north of Las Vegas); there were springs that the Cherokee used nearby,
> along the 'Great Warriors Path' (predecessor of the Stage Coach road, an
> extension of the Fincastle road, that became part of Boone's Wilderness
> road).  My elementary school's mascot was, to no surprise, the 'Redskins'.
> When I was a kid, we'd play cowboys and Indians, and it wasn't a bad thing
> to be an Indian.   When my father was a boy, he used to hunt for arrowheads
> along the stream near a known encampment site, that's a couple of miles
> upstream from where that creek flows past my house. We grew up with a
> romantic notion of what the 'noble savage' represented.  Today, my son's
> school's mascot is 'the Indians', and the middle school he was in that
> feeds into it, are also the 'Redskins'. It's a big part of the early
> history here.
>
> It wasn't meant to be disrespectful.  Over half of the placenames in the
> United States come from Native American names.  The word 'Indian' itself is
> being replaced with 'Native American', for the sake of political
> correctness.
>
> All of my ancestors have been in East Tennessee, southwestern Virginia, or
> western North Carolina since 1800; all were in North America prior to 1776,
> but some where still on the Chesapeake, or elsewhere on the east coast, at
> that time.  Of those that I've traced back across the Atlantic, I'm
> predominantly English/Scots-Irish/Welsh, with one originating from
> Switzerland.  The one variant:  my paternal grandmother's
> great-grandmother's mom, and her husband's mom, were Cherokee, part of the
> ones that remained hidden here when the Trail of Tears occurred; however,
> they remained away from what became the Eastern Band, and thus aren't on
> the Dawes rolls.
>
> Where I live, there aren't a large number of African-Americans, not as you
> have elsewhere in the country. There was one black student who was a senior
> when I was a freshman, and there was a freshman when I was a senior, but I
> never knew either of them.  However, there are plenty of people around here
> who are racists.  I really didn't know anyone who wasn't like me, a 'WASP',
> when I was growing up, and was actually afraid that, as odd as this might
> sound, that I might be a racist and not know it, at that point.  I went to
> Parris Island, wide-eyed and apprehensive; and that was where I first got
> to really know some guys that were black... and they were great fellows. I
> was actually relieved, and felt foolish for having felt as I did. But later
> on in infantry school, I met a couple of them weren't.  But the twist was,
> they presumed I was racist because I was a southern white boy, and thought
> I was out to get them;  the table was turned. However, there were plenty of
> other people who were great, too, and a few others that weren't, and I had
> the realization: people are people, and you have to take each individual
> individually on their own merits.
>
> After that point, was when I noticed rap starting a transitioning from a
> 'black-only' thing to a 'whites acting as black', is how I viewed it (I'm
> sure I was late to this, had happened elsewhere earlier, and, long before
> with other genre, but, I digress).  I frowned on such, not as a
> anti-African-American thing, but, that, other whites were being
> disrespectful of 'black culture', because they weren't reserving it for
> them.   I viewed it as, it was wrong for me to be part of that, of being a
> white guy listening to rap, not out of hate, but because I would be taking
> something from them.  [I can't say that I necessarily could have
> articulated that at that point, it wasn't a conscious philosophy, just my
> retrospective view of myself at that time.]
>
> But finally it dawned on me at some point along the way, that my view of
> that, was actually a form of segregation.  Not an active, but a passive
> variety. And not only that, but by allowing, even a passive, segregation,
> to continue, it could inadvertently allow

[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-09 Thread TSW 
These lands were once part of Spanish America- lots of hispanic names
available too.  I think individuals, or dogs, can be filled with fewer
landmines.

The whole Middle Earth thing is an interesting path (that got the
kabash from the Tolkien Estate), for as anyone who's pored over the
Readers know, RBW was named after Rivendell Mtnworks.  He was paying
homage not so much to JRR but to the founder of RMW whose quality,
attention to detail and plain ol' goodness he hoped to emulate, he
wrote.

On Jan 8, 10:30 am, Jeremy Till  wrote:
> Looking forward to the name as well. I have faith in Grant et al to come up
> with a good one...but I have to say, it does seem like they've been boxing
> with one hand tied behind their back since they can't use Middle Earth
> names anymore.  Quickbeam, Legolas, Bombadil--not to mention Baggins
> bags--those were my favorite.
>
> However, I also wanted to say that I was with Liesl and TS in feeling a
> little bit uncomfortable with some kind essentialized "Indian" model name
> (not that that was necessarily the direction things were headed, but the
> possibility existed).  I would say that the best way to do it would be to
> research the peoples native to Rivendell's stomping grounds; maybe use one
> of the native names for Mt. Diablo, to pay tribute to the terrain that has
> shaped Rivendell bikes for years.

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-09 Thread Scotty 
*Abiaka- Seminole Indian medicine man*
 
 
Though his exploits were not as well publicized, Seminole medicine man 
Abiaka may have been more important to the internal Seminole war machine 
than Osceola. Abiaka was a powerful spiritual leader who used his 
"medicine" to stir Seminole warriors into a frenzy. His genius directed 
Seminole gains in several battles, including the 1837 ambush now known as 
the Battle of Okeechobee. 

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-09 Thread Bill Carter 
I agree with Jeremy and Geoff.  This has been one of the more
interesting discussions on the forum in quite a while, but Jeremy's
suggestion is the best of the bunch.  I hope Riv will at least
consider looking into it.  As Patrick mentions, there are many
beautiful Native American tribal names and place names in use here in
the southeast where I live, but it only makes sense to look into those
closer to RBW territory.

On Jan 8, 10:08 pm, Geoff  wrote:
> Hi Jeremy,
>
> Your quote(partial): " I would say that the best way to do it would be to
> research the peoples native to Rivendell's stomping grounds; maybe use one
> of the native names for Mt. Diablo, to pay tribute to the terrain that has
> shaped Rivendell bikes for years."
>
> Just mho, but I think that's a great idea.  Apparently, there were quite a
> few local tribes that lived in the area now known as East Contra Costa
> County and Mount Diablo.  Amongst them were the Ohlone, Miwoks, and Yokuts,
> just to name a few.

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-08 Thread Geoff 
Hi Jeremy,

Your quote(partial): " I would say that the best way to do it would be to 
research the peoples native to Rivendell's stomping grounds; maybe use one 
of the native names for Mt. Diablo, to pay tribute to the terrain that has 
shaped Rivendell bikes for years."

Just mho, but I think that's a great idea.  Apparently, there were quite a 
few local tribes that lived in the area now known as East Contra Costa 
County and Mount Diablo.  Amongst them were the Ohlone, Miwoks, and Yokuts, 
just to name a few.

  

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-08 Thread Jeremy Till 
Looking forward to the name as well. I have faith in Grant et al to come up 
with a good one...but I have to say, it does seem like they've been boxing 
with one hand tied behind their back since they can't use Middle Earth 
names anymore.  Quickbeam, Legolas, Bombadil--not to mention Baggins 
bags--those were my favorite.  

However, I also wanted to say that I was with Liesl and TS in feeling a 
little bit uncomfortable with some kind essentialized "Indian" model name 
(not that that was necessarily the direction things were headed, but the 
possibility existed).  I would say that the best way to do it would be to 
research the peoples native to Rivendell's stomping grounds; maybe use one 
of the native names for Mt. Diablo, to pay tribute to the terrain that has 
shaped Rivendell bikes for years.  

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-08 Thread Frank 
"Elmer Templeton"? Is that it? I'm guessing there's an Oregon Trail-Ezra 
Meeker tie-in of some sort given the ethotic (that should be a word) 
confluence of the RB bike and the native regional influence. And since you 
guys already passed on the whole Modoc / Kintpuash (Captain Jack) bit, it 
must be "Elmer Templeton". Time will tell.

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-08 Thread Peter Pesce 
How bout "Last of the Mohican's"?

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Philip Williamson 
I'm rooting for "King Philip's War" as a bike name.

On Jan 7, 9:13 pm, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> Ya know, Riv Chica Warrior would be a GREAT mixte..

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Joe Bernard 
Ya know, Riv Chica Warrior would be a GREAT mixte..

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Liesl 
for the name, that is!
-liesl

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Liesl 
" Just reporting that there's a name out there that I betevery
one of you (yes, pal Liesl, justifiably famed Riv Chica Warrior (uh-
oh!) included) will like. Seriously, a real goody."

I have great trust and can't wait.
-Riv Chica Warrior

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread grant 
Ask any living relatives--I wanted to BE an Indian when I was a kid.
Read all about them, was one for Halloween a lot. Know they got super
shafted. Don't feel personally responsible for that, but am no less
ashamed on behalf of us anybodys for it for being out of the loop.
Still like Rosco Bubbe, Bosco Rubbebut last night at about 11:10
as I was about to turn off, ZING came a good name over the ethernet,
and I can't say what it is, but the guy who suggested it has been
thanked and privately acknowledged, and usually I don't run names by
too many Rivemps, but this one I did--kinda because I couldn't contain
myself and wanted to share it---and so far, Keven and Elizabeth are
gung ho 'bout it.

The frame/bike itself is the real critical thing, and I've got three
things up in the air about that, but I think we have a good name. It
isIndianesque. Not recognizable as Indian at all, unless you
already know. I didn't, and I'd have gobbled it up even if were far
from Indiany. Long and interesting. Easy to pronounce, hard to
mispronounce. Fitting for a bicycle (that's never mattered before,
although Saluki was, too). I'm not trying to fan the flames, not
playing tricks of any sort. Just reporting that there's a name out
there that I betevery one of you (yes, pal Liesl, justifiably
famed Riv Chica Warrior (uh-oh!) included) will like. Seriously, a
real goody.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Joe Bernard 
I kinda doubt anyone considers "Redskins" an appropriate moniker these days - 
which G mentioned - so to relate it to the topic of Indian names he might use 
is a little silly. Correlating names to cigarette sales is a bit much, also. 

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread George Schick 
"...I'd stick to animal names. Saluki was a great name..."

Hey, hey, hey!  Can it be my little Havanese?  His name is Kozmo.


On Jan 7, 12:21 pm, hobie  wrote:
> Don't some native american tribes now own gambling casinos? They sure sell
> alot of cigarettes. "If you can't lickem you might as well join em". I'd
> stick to animal names. Saluki was a great name. Check out the great Youtube
> videos of these dogs running. We all know how well GPs bikes ride. A word
> that describes the ride on one of his bikes works for me. Animals are not
> opinionated or judgemental. The "Washington Redskins" has never sat well
> with native americans,or the malt liquor named after a Native American.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread hobie 
Don't some native american tribes now own gambling casinos? They sure sell 
alot of cigarettes. "If you can't lickem you might as well join em". I'd 
stick to animal names. Saluki was a great name. Check out the great Youtube 
videos of these dogs running. We all know how well GPs bikes ride. A word 
that describes the ride on one of his bikes works for me. Animals are not 
opinionated or judgemental. The "Washington Redskins" has never sat well 
with native americans,or the malt liquor named after a Native American.   

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread William 
Leaving aside the political considerations and treating names of bikes as 
just names of bikes, for some reason I find super long bicycle names 
endearing.  Kona named a cruiser after the tiny fish 
"humuhumunukunukuapua'a".  The Native American placename to fill that spot 
is clear:

"Touch not a g!" No impious hand
Shall wrest one from that noble name
Fifteen in all their glory stand
And ever shall the same.
For never shall that number down,
Tho Gogg and Magogg  shout and 
thunder;
Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg's renown
Shall blaze, the beacon of the town,
While nations gaze and wonder."



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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread PATRICK MOORE 
The southeast has some of the most beautiful Indian names: Chattahoochee,
Amicalola, Hiawassee, Tallulah, Waleska. Monongahela from Pennsylvania --
not to mention Allegheny and Appalachia.

Nazlini, Kayenta, Chilchinbito,  Teec nos poz, To'Hajiilee (with the Navajo
glottal stop), Tohatchi, Dennehotso from the Navajo Nation, not to mention
pueblo names like Taos, Sandia, Acoma, Zuni, Zia, Cochiti, Jemez (Spanish
pronunciation), Kewa, Laguna.

Rivendell needs to come out with its own Muttonmaster bicycle (qv --
interesting story):
http://www.thursdaybicycles.com/bicycle_frames/sheep_herding.html

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J <
[email protected]> wrote:

> The Wampanoag name of the leader of the Native American Indian side in
> King Philip's War against the new England colonists - the bloodiest in New
> England history - was Metacomet.  He wasn't the most admirable character,
> according to conventional history, but he did fight to the death in a
> losing cause.  And Metacomet sure seems like a great name for a bike!
>
>
>
> On Jan 6, 2012, at 5:36 PM, "islaysteve"  wrote:
>
> I was thinking along the same lines.  (My local football team is the
> Redskins, if you know what i mean...Not quite the same, No, worse).  Thanks
> for putting it into words with concrete experience to back them up Liesl.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Peter Morgano 
How about more animal names equus? Cimarron?
On Jan 6, 2012 10:03 PM, "Allingham II, Thomas J" <
[email protected]> wrote:

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Marty 
If the kids' bike re-surfaces, I think Minnehaha sounds about right because 
kids fall a lot. (OK - so you have to be from Minneapolis to get that one.) 

Marty

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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J 
"Never apologize, and never explain.  It's a sign of weakness."  I found your 
post thought-provoking.



On Jan 7, 2012, at 10:26 AM, "Leslie"  wrote:

> What did I post last night?!?!
> 
> My apologies!   I get to thinking, then writing, and don't stop I start 
> to build foundations of points, and never return to finish them...
> 
> I'll refrain from late-night postings, and put such on a blog somewhere 
> instead...
> 
> Hope I didn't upset anyone.
> 
> -L
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Bill Carter 
Thanks for pointing that out, I'd missed it.  I doubt he'd use the
name "Hiawatha" itself out of consideration for Jim Thill, but it
sounds like he may be playing with the idea of using one out of the
Longfellow work.  It would certainly go along with the use of
"Rivendell" and various product names drawn from Tolkien's books.  In
fact, I named one of my children using a Tolkien place name, and that
was several years before the founding of RBW, so I was not influenced
by Grant in doing so.  But then everyone knows what they say about
great minds.

On Jan 7, 9:42 am, "Allingham II, Thomas J"
 wrote:
> Grant did in the original Blug post.
>
> On Jan 7, 2012, at 6:51 AM, "Bill Carter"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm surprised no one in this discussion has mentioned one of Grant's
> > favorite literary characters, Hiawatha.
>
> > On Jan 6, 11:47 pm, Liesl  wrote:
> >> On Jan 6, 10:41 pm, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> >>> My 2 cents is..I think Native-American traditions and names and such are
> >>> very cool, and worthy of honor on a bicycle. I hope Grant doesn't get
> >>> spooked out of it by people claiming he's disrespecting them in some way.
> >>> Last I heard, stars 'n' stripes motifs on bikes was considered a
> >>> celebration of America. There ain't nothing more American than the first
> >>> ones.
>
> >> It can be done in a good way:  talk to Native people.  Learn what it
> >> means to do it in a good way.  A bicycle with a given name would be
> >> truly wonderful.
> >> -liesl
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Leslie 
What did I post last night?!?!

My apologies!   I get to thinking, then writing, and don't stop I start to 
build foundations of points, and never return to finish them...

I'll refrain from late-night postings, and put such on a blog somewhere 
instead...

Hope I didn't upset anyone.

-L


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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J 
Grant did in the original Blug post.




On Jan 7, 2012, at 6:51 AM, "Bill Carter"  wrote:

> I'm surprised no one in this discussion has mentioned one of Grant's
> favorite literary characters, Hiawatha.
> 
> On Jan 6, 11:47 pm, Liesl  wrote:
>> On Jan 6, 10:41 pm, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>> 
>>> My 2 cents is..I think Native-American traditions and names and such are
>>> very cool, and worthy of honor on a bicycle. I hope Grant doesn't get
>>> spooked out of it by people claiming he's disrespecting them in some way.
>>> Last I heard, stars 'n' stripes motifs on bikes was considered a
>>> celebration of America. There ain't nothing more American than the first
>>> ones.
>> 
>> It can be done in a good way:  talk to Native people.  Learn what it
>> means to do it in a good way.  A bicycle with a given name would be
>> truly wonderful.
>> -liesl
> 
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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread Bill Carter 
I'm surprised no one in this discussion has mentioned one of Grant's
favorite literary characters, Hiawatha.

On Jan 6, 11:47 pm, Liesl  wrote:
> On Jan 6, 10:41 pm, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> > My 2 cents is..I think Native-American traditions and names and such are
> > very cool, and worthy of honor on a bicycle. I hope Grant doesn't get
> > spooked out of it by people claiming he's disrespecting them in some way.
> > Last I heard, stars 'n' stripes motifs on bikes was considered a
> > celebration of America. There ain't nothing more American than the first
> > ones.
>
> It can be done in a good way:  talk to Native people.  Learn what it
> means to do it in a good way.  A bicycle with a given name would be
> truly wonderful.
> -liesl

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-07 Thread newenglandbike 
I went to college in a town called Amherst-  as awful a name, due to its 
history, as any word or name that has been appropriated from Native 
American language.But it's just a name, and better that it be used and 
not forgotten by the general public than otherwise.

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread Leslie 
On Friday, January 6, 2012 5:19:36 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>
> This is important.  I work with Native people, and appropriation of 
> culture by Euro-Americans without asking is just not a good thing.  Note 
> that the University of North Dakota officially discontinued its use of the 
> Fighting Sioux nickname the first of the year.  Sorry to get political 
> here, but this is such a respectful community that I feel I should pipe up. 
> -liesl 
>

Excellent point, with which I used to agree.  And, not that I completely 
disagree with it now, but my thoughts have evolved.   (I hesitate to say, 
but think I can respectfully do this, and it does relate, given GP's 
consideration of 'an Indian name'.) So, I'll give it a try...

The community I grew up in near here is called Indian Springs (not the one 
north of Las Vegas); there were springs that the Cherokee used nearby, 
along the 'Great Warriors Path' (predecessor of the Stage Coach road, an 
extension of the Fincastle road, that became part of Boone's Wilderness 
road).  My elementary school's mascot was, to no surprise, the 'Redskins'.  
When I was a kid, we'd play cowboys and Indians, and it wasn't a bad thing 
to be an Indian.   When my father was a boy, he used to hunt for arrowheads 
along the stream near a known encampment site, that's a couple of miles 
upstream from where that creek flows past my house. We grew up with a 
romantic notion of what the 'noble savage' represented.  Today, my son's 
school's mascot is 'the Indians', and the middle school he was in that 
feeds into it, are also the 'Redskins'. It's a big part of the early 
history here.  

It wasn't meant to be disrespectful.  Over half of the placenames in the 
United States come from Native American names.  The word 'Indian' itself is 
being replaced with 'Native American', for the sake of political 
correctness.   

All of my ancestors have been in East Tennessee, southwestern Virginia, or 
western North Carolina since 1800; all were in North America prior to 1776, 
but some where still on the Chesapeake, or elsewhere on the east coast, at 
that time.  Of those that I've traced back across the Atlantic, I'm 
predominantly English/Scots-Irish/Welsh, with one originating from 
Switzerland.  The one variant:  my paternal grandmother's 
great-grandmother's mom, and her husband's mom, were Cherokee, part of the 
ones that remained hidden here when the Trail of Tears occurred; however, 
they remained away from what became the Eastern Band, and thus aren't on 
the Dawes rolls.

Where I live, there aren't a large number of African-Americans, not as you 
have elsewhere in the country. There was one black student who was a senior 
when I was a freshman, and there was a freshman when I was a senior, but I 
never knew either of them.  However, there are plenty of people around here 
who are racists.  I really didn't know anyone who wasn't like me, a 'WASP', 
when I was growing up, and was actually afraid that, as odd as this might 
sound, that I might be a racist and not know it, at that point.  I went to 
Parris Island, wide-eyed and apprehensive; and that was where I first got 
to really know some guys that were black... and they were great fellows. I 
was actually relieved, and felt foolish for having felt as I did. But later 
on in infantry school, I met a couple of them weren't.  But the twist was, 
they presumed I was racist because I was a southern white boy, and thought 
I was out to get them;  the table was turned. However, there were plenty of 
other people who were great, too, and a few others that weren't, and I had 
the realization: people are people, and you have to take each individual 
individually on their own merits.   

After that point, was when I noticed rap starting a transitioning from a 
'black-only' thing to a 'whites acting as black', is how I viewed it (I'm 
sure I was late to this, had happened elsewhere earlier, and, long before 
with other genre, but, I digress).  I frowned on such, not as a 
anti-African-American thing, but, that, other whites were being 
disrespectful of 'black culture', because they weren't reserving it for 
them.   I viewed it as, it was wrong for me to be part of that, of being a 
white guy listening to rap, not out of hate, but because I would be taking 
something from them.  [I can't say that I necessarily could have 
articulated that at that point, it wasn't a conscious philosophy, just my 
retrospective view of myself at that time.]

But finally it dawned on me at some point along the way, that my view of 
that, was actually a form of segregation.  Not an active, but a passive 
variety. And not only that, but by allowing, even a passive, segregation, 
to continue, it could inadvertently allow (not necessarily for myself, but 
for 'people in general), a fertile ground to nurture an underlying racism, 
by having that segregation keep an understanding of other cultures from 
developing.  If you're a part of it, you're not going to throw stones a

[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread Liesl 
On Jan 6, 10:41 pm, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> My 2 cents is..I think Native-American traditions and names and such are
> very cool, and worthy of honor on a bicycle. I hope Grant doesn't get
> spooked out of it by people claiming he's disrespecting them in some way.
> Last I heard, stars 'n' stripes motifs on bikes was considered a
> celebration of America. There ain't nothing more American than the first
> ones.

It can be done in a good way:  talk to Native people.  Learn what it
means to do it in a good way.  A bicycle with a given name would be
truly wonderful.
-liesl

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread Joe Bernard 
My 2 cents is..I think Native-American traditions and names and such are 
very cool, and worthy of honor on a bicycle. I hope Grant doesn't get 
spooked out of it by people claiming he's disrespecting them in some way. 
Last I heard, stars 'n' stripes motifs on bikes was considered a 
celebration of America. There ain't nothing more American than the first 
ones. 
 
Joe "I'd put a deposit on an Arrowhead tomorrow" Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J 
The Wampanoag name of the leader of the Native American Indian side in King 
Philip's War against the new England colonists - the bloodiest in New England 
history - was Metacomet.  He wasn't the most admirable character, according to 
conventional history, but he did fight to the death in a losing cause.  And 
Metacomet sure seems like a great name for a bike!



On Jan 6, 2012, at 5:36 PM, "islaysteve" 
mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

I was thinking along the same lines.  (My local football team is the Redskins, 
if you know what i mean...Not quite the same, No, worse).  Thanks for putting 
it into words with concrete experience to back them up Liesl.

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread islaysteve 
I was thinking along the same lines.  (My local football team is the 
Redskins, if you know what i mean...Not quite the same, No, worse).  Thanks 
for putting it into words with concrete experience to back them up Liesl. 

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread Liesl 
On Jan 6, 11:07 am, TSW  wrote:
> Are these tribes still extant?  I wonder what it'd be like for a
> member of a tribe to see a bike named after his or her people.  Would
> it be like seeing:
>
> "FS: 56cm Englishman"
> "Anyone put Hetres on a German?"
> "I really regret selling my Japanese.  My new Canadian just isn't the
> same."
> "Stolen Egyptian"
> "American vs Russian: which should I buy?

This is important.  I work with Native people, and appropriation of
culture by Euro-Americans without asking is just not a good thing.
Note that the University of North Dakota officially discontinued its
use of the Fighting Sioux nickname the first of the year.  Sorry to
get political here, but this is such a respectful community that I
feel I should pipe up.

-liesl

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread Peter Pesce 
I don't think GP will like it, but I think "Chief" would be great. 

The long and laid-back nature of bike makes me think of someone who's 
entitled to take their time...

The back-up bars also remind me of this: 
http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/experience/history/pages/vintage-news.aspx

And the asymmetric seatstay braces seem to have been formed by the wind, 
kind of like the old motorcycles: 
http://www.kiwiindian.com/gallery/Vintage/index.php?image=7

Just my 2c.

-Pete

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread EricP 
One problem as I see it with that name-
"How was the ride?"
"Arrowing."
(With apologies to Yellow Submarine.)

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Jan 6, 10:59 am, John Price  wrote:
> I'm with Robert and Joe on this one - Arrowhead or something along
> those lines.  I think that'd be a very cool name and a refreshing
> change (in my humble opinion) from the oddball person names Rivendell
> has been using of late.  (Give me "Saluki" any day over "A. Homer
> Hilsen" - but then I have a vested interest in that one).
>
> John

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread George Schick 
Well, this'll give away my own NE Indiana roots, but I'll opt for
"Little Turtle."  He was Miami Tribe leader during the early settling
of the upper Midwest and figured into the French-Indian War and the
War of 1812.  I especially liked him because he was clever enough to
realize that he could charge a toll for those traders needing to
portage from the Maumee River to the Wabash River in order to continue
their travels West.  My second favorite would be "Tecumseh," but I
suppose that would sound too much like a lawn mower engine and would
probably initiate a copyright suit.  You can read lots about either of
these two on the Web


On Jan 5, 11:19 pm, Allan in Portland  wrote:
> Perhaps this gives away my NW Indiana roots, but I gotta say Calumet would
> be kinda nice for a bike name. However, those who've never made steel from
> ore, or known someone that knew someone who did, probably wouldn't 
> getit.
>
> So... staying with my Indiana roots as root for good indian names, but
> aiming a little less esoteric, I'm not sure one could do better for a bike
> than Tippicanoe. It rolls off the tongue. It's fun to say. Friends and
> strangers alike won't be able to resist adding "and Tyler too" every time
> they see you with your new bike.
>
> Regards,
> -Allan

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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread TSW 
Are these tribes still extant?  I wonder what it'd be like for a
member of a tribe to see a bike named after his or her people.  Would
it be like seeing:

"FS: 56cm Englishman"
"Anyone put Hetres on a German?"
"I really regret selling my Japanese.  My new Canadian just isn't the
same."
"Stolen Egyptian"
"American vs Russian: which should I buy"

Happy Friday! :-)
ts


On Jan 6, 6:53 am, jimD  wrote:
> Given the name/trademark lawyerly things that Riv has run into with bike 
> names, Calumet might be a problem.
> When photography was based on silver halide and chemistry  I knew Calumet as 
> a respected business
> particularly for photo accessory/widgets.
>
> Oh I just checked they are still at it
> (http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/browse/brands/calumet).
>
> -JimD
>
> On Jan 5, 2012, at 9:19 PM, Allan in Portland wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Perhaps this gives away my NW Indiana roots, but I gotta say Calumet would 
> > be kinda nice for a bike name. However, those who've never made steel from 
> > ore, or known someone that knew someone who did, probably wouldn't get it.
>
> > So... staying with my Indiana roots as root for good indian names, but 
> > aiming a little less esoteric, I'm not sure one could do better for a bike 
> > than Tippicanoe. It rolls off the tongue. It's fun to say. Friends and 
> > strangers alike won't be able to resist adding "and Tyler too" every time 
> > they see you with your new bike.
>
> > Regards,
> > -Allan
>
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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread John Price 
I'm with Robert and Joe on this one - Arrowhead or something along
those lines.  I think that'd be a very cool name and a refreshing
change (in my humble opinion) from the oddball person names Rivendell
has been using of late.  (Give me "Saluki" any day over "A. Homer
Hilsen" - but then I have a vested interest in that one).

John

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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-06 Thread Allan in Portland 
Those are nice ones. I really like Bois Forte. However, contra the Calumet 
example, if it's still solely associated with the tribe it may not be 
available.

And this is my last one (ok, no promises ;-)) if Tippecanoe is too cute 
sounding, may I suggest Wabash.

Terre haute (high ground),
-Allan

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Re: [RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-05 Thread Stonehog 
There are a couple of Northern MN tribes that may qualify good naming.  While 
Fond Du Lac may be more steel friendly in that they are in the "iron range" 
county of Cloquet near Duluth, I prefer the Bois Forte name for its translation 
as "strong wood". Seems to fit the steel/leather product motif. 

http://www.indianaffairs.state.mn.us/tribes_fonddulac.html
http://www.indianaffairs.state.mn.us/tribes_boisforte.html

These pages also have great inspiration for headbadgery!

Brian Hanson
Former Minnesotan now of Seattle, WA 

On Jan 5, 2012, at 9:24 PM, Allan in Portland  wrote:

> Ugh. Of course you'll have to put up with the repeated miss-spellings of it 
> on the interwebs. Could give eBay and Craigslist bloodhounds something to 
> keep themselves doubly busy with.
> 
> ...shouldda been Tippecanoe
> 
> -Allan
> 
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[RBW] Re: Indian bike names

2012-01-05 Thread Allan in Portland 
Ugh. Of course you'll have to put up with the repeated miss-spellings of it 
on the interwebs. Could give eBay and Craigslist bloodhounds something to 
keep themselves doubly busy with.

...shouldda been Tippecanoe

-Allan

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