[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Elisabeth Sherwood]

Hi Jamie,

As with so many other things, unfortunately the answer is "it depends"!

I think Will's advice re. type of bars and how to set them up is spot on. I 
find modern shallow-drop, relatively-short-reach handlebars to be 
enormously comfortable, and the best way to set up brake levers is to have 
them "coming out" of the top of the bars pretty evenly -- the continuous 
surface that Will mentioned.   (Note that modern bars are really so 
different from bars from even 15 years ago.  And bars from 25-30-40 years 
ago, with brake levers placed kind of on the middle of the drop portion of 
the bars?  I have no idea how anyone got comfortable on them!)

The rest really depends on the source of your discomfort.  If your bike is 
actually appropriate for drop bars (and it seems that most "modern" 
Rivendells are not), try to identify what's going on...   Are you 
uncomfortable because there is too much pressure on your hands?  In my 
experience maybe 15% of the time it's because the bars are too low, and 
you're falling "onto" the bars.  But I find that probably 80% of the time 
(and this being a Riv forum I'll probably get lectured about this) it's 
because the bars are too high, and what you're actually feeling is pressure 
coming from the handlebars onto your hands/shoulders/neck, and/or too far 
(in which case, while you're not falling onto the bars, you've got your 
body weight falling forward in a way that you can't relieve through your 
core or through your leg strength as you pedal).

I encourage you to, as you're riding, trying to imagine where your hands 
*would like to be*.  If you're riding along, and your back is at an angle 
that you're comfortable at, where would your hands be if you just let your 
arms extend gently out at about an 80-degree angle from your torso?  Would 
they be higher?  Lower?  Closer?  Further? 

And, if you can identify that spot, what would it take to get the 
handlebars into that position?  A different stem?  A different handlebar?  
A different stem/handlebar combination? 

Oh, also, handlebar positions depends a lot on body geometry.  Pro racers 
whose handlebars are so very low compared to their saddles?  Their back 
angles on the bike are not really all that different from most moderately 
serious recreational riders.  But they tend to have really long limbs, so 
their bikes are set up in ways that mere mortals could never contemplate.  
For those of us with *relatively* short arms, we'll need the handlebars 
higher and closer than those with relatively longer arms.  

(How do you know if you have relatively short or long arms?  When I sit on 
the ground with my legs straight out and my back perpendicular, I can't 
actually touch the ground with my palms.  I know people that sit the same 
way and their arms are bent at like a 120-degree angle.  Even if we're the 
same height, our handlebars will need to be set up completely differently 
in order for us to be comfortable.)

No idea if that helps...  Good luck!

Elisabeth Sherwood
Washington, DC 



On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 12:28:42 PM UTC-4 Jamie D. wrote:

> I keep trying drop bars in various forms and fashions and can never seem 
> to get comfortable. Obviously this is subjective but in your experience is 
> higher bars with shorter reach the most comfortable? Is there a 
> 'goldilocks' zone? Any wisdom you could share would be greatly appreciated!

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[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[George Schick]

Will - great advice on all points (and I think many "silent" others do as 
well). You've zeroed-in on all the key items regarding positioning the bar 
height, shallow drop, level line of the brake lever hoods, saddle distance 
and profile.  The only thing I can think to add is the advantage of the 
multiple hand positions possible with drop bars - down on the hooks (drops) 
in strong wind or drafting other riders, on the brake levers themselves, on 
the bar slightly above the brake lever hoods with the index finger angled 
outward, and of course on the flats of the bars.  All of these seem to be 
either overlooked, ignored, or disputed among many who think drop bars are 
a wrong design for proper road riding.  Too bad that many decades of road 
riders thought differently about them.

On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 12:58:13 PM UTC-5 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I think I'm a contrarian voice in this forum: I exclusively run drop bars 
> on any bike that is not a mountain bike.  To a certain extent, I think it's 
> a what-you're-used-to kind of thing.  If they don't work for you, that's 
> okay!
>
> That said, I like bars that have shallow drop and where I can get the 
> lever hoods in a straight line from the tops (so there's a continuous 
> surface along the top of the bars).  Getting them the right distance from 
> your saddle and the correct height is non-trivial.  I think a good starting 
> point is level with your saddle.  I like to set them up so the drops are 
> usable (higher than your average roadie).
>
> Also, if you're using drop bars, you probably want a different saddle 
> (narrower) than swept-back bars, which might be contributing to discomfort.
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 12:28:42 PM UTC-4 Jamie D. wrote:
>
>> I keep trying drop bars in various forms and fashions and can never seem 
>> to get comfortable. Obviously this is subjective but in your experience is 
>> higher bars with shorter reach the most comfortable? Is there a 
>> 'goldilocks' zone? Any wisdom you could share would be greatly appreciated!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Zachary Cannon]

One bit of advice I've heard it the higher the bars, the further back the 
saddle should go for any given rider in order to keep open hips.
That can mean that as a rider becomes more experienced and want lower bars 
do to bodily adaptations, that rider may want the saddle further forward. 
Both of my children went this way as they rode more and more post high 
school with the end of high school sports commitments.
For most of us here (well past our early 20s, I imagine), that might mean 
moving the saddle back, but it seems like it's a complex relation between 
femur length, core strength and bar height among other factors.
Best, Zach in ABQ



On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 8:01:39 PM UTC-6 Elisabeth Sherwood wrote:

> We might be discussing this thread to within an inch of its life, but I 
> really love/appreciate how many people really like modern handlebars and 
> also have felt the discomfort that results from having the bars too high!
>
> "I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” 
> effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my 
> ears."
>
> One more thing on the "turtle" thing:  What I've found it that it's often 
> caused by having the saddle too far forward.  Which in turn reduces the 
> ability to really hinge your pelvis when riding.  It encourages one to sit 
> "on" the saddle (like on a chair), with one's back relatively vertical.  
> And then of course you have to strain your shoulders forward to try to 
> reach the bars (causing the turtle effect...)
>
> Whenever I see someone turtle-ing, I move the saddle backwards and 
> encourage them to use the saddle as a perch, and not as a chair.  They can 
> then hinge their pelvis, which keeps their back relatively straighter while 
> bringing their shoulders closer to the handlebars.
>
> (This also enables you to get into that "pyramid" position that someone 
> else mentioned.)
>
> Elisabeth Sherwood
> Washington, DC
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 5:02:54 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 1:56:56 PM UTC-5 Jamie D. wrote:
>
>  I keep trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I 
> think the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 
> 'look up' bringing my neck out of line with my back.
>
> Oh yeah, I hear that. Google “Shermer’s Neck” and you’ll learn plenty. In 
> my experience, it is a combination of holding up the head _and_ holding up 
> the eyeballs. Because my eye movement muscles got so tired, I have for a 
> long time worked at keeping my head up, so I’m not rotating my eyes up to 
> look up the road. But that’s been stressing my head-holding-up muscles 
> more, and I’m having some trouble with the cervical-thoracic junction. 
> Bringing the tops of the bars up 2-5cm, to where they are level with the 
> saddle, and finding an in-between position where my head isn’t fully up and 
> my eyeballs are only slightly rotated up is working well. Also, I vary that 
> positioning during a ride to give all the muscles chances to rest a bit.
>
> I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” 
> effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my 
> ears. With a cm shorter stem and the higher bars, I also regularly think 
> about extending my head and neck, like a turtle, and pushing my elbows in 
> and shoulders down. Inevitably I find that if I’m riding at a relaxed pace, 
> putting less weight into my legs and core, I creep back into bad form and 
> have to consciously correct for it.
>
> I also haven’t been doing as much yoga as I was pre-COVID, and with that 
> my core strength has gone south a bit. I have been working on building some 
> foundational strength in the back, shoulders, and neck this year, and I 
> think that’s helping.
>
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Jay]

Good question, Jamie.  One can ask the same for flat/alt bars right!?  It's 
all subjective but I do believe some sensible traits apply in both cases. 
 I have both types of bars and it took a lot of experimenting to make each 
work.

My Roadini with drop bars: width at the hoods is in line with my shoulders; 
not too narrow or wide.  If the bars are too high, my shoulders shrug, and 
this I can feel within 10 minutes of riding (and for hours after, ouch). 
 Reach, I think depends on a lot of things including flexibility (same can 
be said of height...except for too high and shrug, that's never good). 
 With my hands placed comfortably on the hoods, are my arms stretched out 
too far, causing tension in the shoulder blades, or are my arms (triceps) 
close to inline with the side of my torso.  I think it's natural to have 
them extend out slightly; in my case, with pre-existing neck/shoulder 
issues, I like my arms to not extend out very far.  Lever position should 
be in a position to my hands rest comfortably on them with no kinking of 
the wrist up or down, just a nice relaxed line down my arms.  Some bars 
have a drastic drop down and I see people with hoods halfway down this 
drop, I just don't understand how this can be comfortable but whatever 
floats your boat!  Having someone with some knowledge of bike fit help you, 
who can 'look' at things is good, but in the end it's how you feel that 
counts.  I think on my Roadini I've had 4-5 stems, as it took me a while to 
dial it in (still not perfect).

On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 6:49:50 PM UTC-4 rcook...@gmail.com wrote:

> Jamie,
>
> I second Elisabeth's and Patrick's advice. I spent a couple years holding 
> my hands—as well as I could while riding—where they would feel most 
> comfortable, and experimenting with bar height, width, and shape, as well 
> as stem length. It was a bit of a pain, but when I got my Homer with 
> downtube shifters, swapping stems and bars was relatively straightforward.
>
> I settled on relatively narrow drop bars with a longish reach and deep 
> drop. I set the top of the bars 2 to 3 cm *above* saddle height. I'm 
> slim, and drop bars wider than 37 or 38 cm at the ramps are uncomfortable 
> for my shoulders and neck. Likewise most flat/upright bars (except 
> Albatross). I ride mostly on the ramps.
>
> In what way (or ways) are your current bars uncomfortable, if you don't 
> mind me asking?
>
> --
> Bob
>
> On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 10:28:42 AM UTC-6 Jamie D. wrote:
>
>> I keep trying drop bars in various forms and fashions and can never seem 
>> to get comfortable. Obviously this is subjective but in your experience is 
>> higher bars with shorter reach the most comfortable? Is there a 
>> 'goldilocks' zone? Any wisdom you could share would be greatly appreciated!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Elisabeth Sherwood]

We might be discussing this thread to within an inch of its life, but I 
really love/appreciate how many people really like modern handlebars and 
also have felt the discomfort that results from having the bars too high!

"I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” 
effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my 
ears."

One more thing on the "turtle" thing:  What I've found it that it's often 
caused by having the saddle too far forward.  Which in turn reduces the 
ability to really hinge your pelvis when riding.  It encourages one to sit 
"on" the saddle (like on a chair), with one's back relatively vertical.  
And then of course you have to strain your shoulders forward to try to 
reach the bars (causing the turtle effect...)

Whenever I see someone turtle-ing, I move the saddle backwards and 
encourage them to use the saddle as a perch, and not as a chair.  They can 
then hinge their pelvis, which keeps their back relatively straighter while 
bringing their shoulders closer to the handlebars.

(This also enables you to get into that "pyramid" position that someone 
else mentioned.)

Elisabeth Sherwood
Washington, DC




On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 5:02:54 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 1:56:56 PM UTC-5 Jamie D. wrote:

 I keep trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I 
think the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 
'look up' bringing my neck out of line with my back.

Oh yeah, I hear that. Google “Shermer’s Neck” and you’ll learn plenty. In 
my experience, it is a combination of holding up the head _and_ holding up 
the eyeballs. Because my eye movement muscles got so tired, I have for a 
long time worked at keeping my head up, so I’m not rotating my eyes up to 
look up the road. But that’s been stressing my head-holding-up muscles 
more, and I’m having some trouble with the cervical-thoracic junction. 
Bringing the tops of the bars up 2-5cm, to where they are level with the 
saddle, and finding an in-between position where my head isn’t fully up and 
my eyeballs are only slightly rotated up is working well. Also, I vary that 
positioning during a ride to give all the muscles chances to rest a bit.

I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” 
effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my 
ears. With a cm shorter stem and the higher bars, I also regularly think 
about extending my head and neck, like a turtle, and pushing my elbows in 
and shoulders down. Inevitably I find that if I’m riding at a relaxed pace, 
putting less weight into my legs and core, I creep back into bad form and 
have to consciously correct for it.

I also haven’t been doing as much yoga as I was pre-COVID, and with that my 
core strength has gone south a bit. I have been working on building some 
foundational strength in the back, shoulders, and neck this year, and I 
think that’s helping.


Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Zachary Cannon]

I too am a fan of drop bars. One struggle for me is that for comfort, I 
require frames with relatively short top tubes and long head tubes. That 
means I sized down a size or two versus the Riv recommendations on the used 
Romulus I just bought, in order to get my prefered 57.5 effective top tube.
One measurement that I find useful when thinking about various bars and 
stems with different reach numbers is the measurement from tip or the 
saddle the back for the hoods. If I go with wider bars, I'll need a shorter 
stem to achieve the same number. If I want to prioritize the ramps on a bar 
like the noodles, then I can pus that number out a centimeter to allow 
that. 
I agree with Elisabeth that too high of bars causes as much a problem as 
too low. Raising the bars to account for increased reach really doesn't 
work for me at all. Despite all I love about Grant's thinking, this hasn't 
worked for me. Shortening the reach is essential for my fit and often 
allows for lower (not all that low, but 2-4cm below saddle) bars and lots 
of comfort.
I also find that modern bars can rescue bikes from older eras with their 
shorter reach and drop. Bikes that were specced with 120mm stems and bars 
with 90mm of reach can work for me with a 70-90mm stem and modern bars.
I hope this helps! Best, Z

On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 2:05:08 PM UTC-6 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> wow, I just looked at the reach on those Blue Lug bars.. 82 cm, that's 
> long.. and a drop of 132.. that's some old school numbers IMHO (not sure I 
> would ever use those drops unless I had the bars WAY up).. for reference, I 
> run the Specialized bars I mentioned with a reach of 70mm and a drop of 
> 119mm.. with the added width you mentioned, that's a HUGE difference.. 
>
> you're 2" taller than me and run about a 5cm taller saddle height than me 
> for reference.. (with me using 165mm cranks, as that matters for saddle 
> height) if I measure from 11cm from the rear of my saddle (usually where 
> most folks sit) to where your hand rests on the hood (the start of the 
> upcurve), I'm right at 73-75cm reach depending on the bike.. again, fit is 
> very, very personal to the person and how they want to ride, how flexible 
> they are, etc, but.. FWIW, many folks also have their saddle height a CM or 
> so too high if they are on or coming from a road bike and it got set a bike 
> shop and/or using the Lemond method, etc.. next time you're pedaling, look 
> down at the bottom of your pedal stroke and see if you're pointing your 
> toes.. if you are, you might have your saddle too high.. maybe not as some 
> folks are natural pointers, but.. **this is somewhat assuming you ride 
> clipped in, maybe not the right crowd here for that, but.. 
>
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2025 at 11:57 AM Jamie D.  wrote:
>
>> Wow, such excellent and insightful responses so far! I am definitely NOT 
>> trying to put drop bars on a Clem though I'm sure someone has tried. It's 
>> less about pain (which feels inevitable since I'm not in the best shape, 
>> I'm working on that), it's more that I feel restless on the bars. I keep 
>> trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I think 
>> the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 'look up' 
>> bringing my neck out of line with my back.
>>
>> For context, I am currently experimenting with a recently acquired 56cm 
>> Quickbeam. I'm 5' 10.5" tall with a 85cm PBH and 74cm saddle height. I 
>> tried the stock 42cm noodles with a 90cm stem bars level to the saddle and 
>> these were too narrow and I felt like a was leaning too far forward. My 
>> current setup is a 60mm 90-190 stem with these Blue Lug bars 
>>  in the 
>> 480mm width. The hood position of the bar is currently around 4cm above the 
>> sit bone level of the Brooks B17 saddle with the nose pointed up roughly 10 
>> degrees. My intention was to try and recreate my most comfortable drop bar 
>> bike ever which was a Miyata Alumicross set up very close to this 
>> .
>>  
>> The last time I rode this bike (I no longer have it) was at least a decade 
>> ago and I definitely have less strength and flexibility than I did then. I 
>> tried comparing the two on Bike Insights 
>> 
>>  
>> and it seems like the short 60mm stem could work but obviously the 'Nitto 
>> spread bar' that came on this bike is very different.
>>
>> In terms of reach, am I right in thinking that changing the stem length 
>> can accommodate the longer or shorter reach of any given bar? Or are they 
>> two different things that do not have the same effect on your position?
>> On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 10:03:07 AM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Morning all,
>>>
>>> I don't post a lot here, but this is a subject t

[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Ted Durant]

On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 1:56:56 PM UTC-5 Jamie D. wrote:

 I keep trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I 
think the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 
'look up' bringing my neck out of line with my back.

Oh yeah, I hear that. Google “Shermer’s Neck” and you’ll learn plenty. In 
my experience, it is a combination of holding up the head _and_ holding up 
the eyeballs. Because my eye movement muscles got so tired, I have for a 
long time worked at keeping my head up, so I’m not rotating my eyes up to 
look up the road. But that’s been stressing my head-holding-up muscles 
more, and I’m having some trouble with the cervical-thoracic junction. 
Bringing the tops of the bars up 2-5cm, to where they are level with the 
saddle, and finding an in-between position where my head isn’t fully up and 
my eyeballs are only slightly rotated up is working well. Also, I vary that 
positioning during a ride to give all the muscles chances to rest a bit.

I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” 
effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my 
ears. With a cm shorter stem and the higher bars, I also regularly think 
about extending my head and neck, like a turtle, and pushing my elbows in 
and shoulders down. Inevitably I find that if I’m riding at a relaxed pace, 
putting less weight into my legs and core, I creep back into bad form and 
have to consciously correct for it.

I also haven’t been doing as much yoga as I was pre-COVID, and with that my 
core strength has gone south a bit. I have been working on building some 
foundational strength in the back, shoulders, and neck this year, and I 
think that’s helping.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Chris Fly]

wow, I just looked at the reach on those Blue Lug bars.. 82 cm, that's
long.. and a drop of 132.. that's some old school numbers IMHO (not sure I
would ever use those drops unless I had the bars WAY up).. for reference, I
run the Specialized bars I mentioned with a reach of 70mm and a drop of
119mm.. with the added width you mentioned, that's a HUGE difference..

you're 2" taller than me and run about a 5cm taller saddle height than me
for reference.. (with me using 165mm cranks, as that matters for saddle
height) if I measure from 11cm from the rear of my saddle (usually where
most folks sit) to where your hand rests on the hood (the start of the
upcurve), I'm right at 73-75cm reach depending on the bike.. again, fit is
very, very personal to the person and how they want to ride, how flexible
they are, etc, but.. FWIW, many folks also have their saddle height a CM or
so too high if they are on or coming from a road bike and it got set a bike
shop and/or using the Lemond method, etc.. next time you're pedaling, look
down at the bottom of your pedal stroke and see if you're pointing your
toes.. if you are, you might have your saddle too high.. maybe not as some
folks are natural pointers, but.. **this is somewhat assuming you ride
clipped in, maybe not the right crowd here for that, but..

On Tue, Sep 9, 2025 at 11:57 AM Jamie D.  wrote:

> Wow, such excellent and insightful responses so far! I am definitely NOT
> trying to put drop bars on a Clem though I'm sure someone has tried. It's
> less about pain (which feels inevitable since I'm not in the best shape,
> I'm working on that), it's more that I feel restless on the bars. I keep
> trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I think
> the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 'look up'
> bringing my neck out of line with my back.
>
> For context, I am currently experimenting with a recently acquired 56cm
> Quickbeam. I'm 5' 10.5" tall with a 85cm PBH and 74cm saddle height. I
> tried the stock 42cm noodles with a 90cm stem bars level to the saddle and
> these were too narrow and I felt like a was leaning too far forward. My
> current setup is a 60mm 90-190 stem with these Blue Lug bars
>  in the
> 480mm width. The hood position of the bar is currently around 4cm above the
> sit bone level of the Brooks B17 saddle with the nose pointed up roughly 10
> degrees. My intention was to try and recreate my most comfortable drop bar
> bike ever which was a Miyata Alumicross set up very close to this
> .
> The last time I rode this bike (I no longer have it) was at least a decade
> ago and I definitely have less strength and flexibility than I did then. I
> tried comparing the two on Bike Insights
> 
> and it seems like the short 60mm stem could work but obviously the 'Nitto
> spread bar' that came on this bike is very different.
>
> In terms of reach, am I right in thinking that changing the stem length
> can accommodate the longer or shorter reach of any given bar? Or are they
> two different things that do not have the same effect on your position?
> On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 10:03:07 AM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Morning all,
>>
>> I don't post a lot here, but this is a subject that piques my interest..
>> :)
>>
>> First, for anyone interested in learning a bit more about bike fit, I'd
>> point you to "Bikefit James" on YouTube.. he has some fantastic videos that
>> are aimed at regular people like us IMHO..
>>
>> Ok, so there has been some great advice already, not a whole lot I can
>> add, but I'll try! ;^)  I came to Riv back in the mid-2000s when the
>> "country bikes" where just starting to hit the streets and got a Bleriot
>> with drops (Noodles), keep it for a while, but it always felt too large
>> (went with Grant's sizing, whole other story) and sold it. Was without a
>> Riv for bit until my Dad passed and I was given his Homer set up with
>> Albatross bars from Riv. Tried to ride it as it was (to honor Dad), but
>> just couldn't do it, so uncomfortable IMHO.. replaced the alt bars first
>> with a set of Noodles I had and just didn't jive (felt long), finally
>> picked up a Velo Orange 31.8 removable faceplate stem and have a set of
>> Specialized "short reach alloy flare" bars on Homer now with fantastic
>> results. Maybe it's sacrilege to have Specialized bars on a Riv, but
>> whatever.. :D
>>
>> I guess my point is, for me, alt bars for sure didn't work for me and
>> even the older style drop bars like Noodles and other older "modern" bars I
>> tried never really felt good to me.. my hands/arms/etc seem to like a
>> modern (within the last 5 yrs maybe) style of bar with a shallow bar and
>> shorter reach and little flare (not a lot, just a little).

Re: [RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Chris Fly]

so one thing to remember is when you go from a more narrow bar to a wider
bar you are effectively lengthening your reach.. going from a 42cm bar to a
48cm bar is going to make your reach feel longer with the same length
stem.. unless you have really wide shoulders, most fitters would steer you
away from such a wide bar.. but some folks just like the feel of a wide
bar, so whatever floats your boat on that.. but you would have to
shorten the stem as you seem to have done.. and yes, shortening the stem
length will also account for a longer bar reach (the length of the ramps)..
but depending on the "era" of the bars, it will depend on where the levers
were designed to be positioned, so you need to be careful with that.. most
modern 31.8 bars will be designed to have the levers positioned similar to
where you see any road bike on the floor of a bike shop, where an older bar
(or a new bar trying to emulate an older design) might be designed to have
the levers positioned much further down the front of the "hook".. that's
one reason I really, really don't like older bars.. again, I would point
you to the youtube guy I referenced in my other reply.. current bikes are
designed for current bar and stem disigns, 1970s/early 80s bikes were
designed for the older stuff.. the two just don't work that well together
IMHO..

Chris

On Tue, Sep 9, 2025 at 11:57 AM Jamie D.  wrote:

> Wow, such excellent and insightful responses so far! I am definitely NOT
> trying to put drop bars on a Clem though I'm sure someone has tried. It's
> less about pain (which feels inevitable since I'm not in the best shape,
> I'm working on that), it's more that I feel restless on the bars. I keep
> trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I think
> the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 'look up'
> bringing my neck out of line with my back.
>
> For context, I am currently experimenting with a recently acquired 56cm
> Quickbeam. I'm 5' 10.5" tall with a 85cm PBH and 74cm saddle height. I
> tried the stock 42cm noodles with a 90cm stem bars level to the saddle and
> these were too narrow and I felt like a was leaning too far forward. My
> current setup is a 60mm 90-190 stem with these Blue Lug bars
>  in the
> 480mm width. The hood position of the bar is currently around 4cm above the
> sit bone level of the Brooks B17 saddle with the nose pointed up roughly 10
> degrees. My intention was to try and recreate my most comfortable drop bar
> bike ever which was a Miyata Alumicross set up very close to this
> .
> The last time I rode this bike (I no longer have it) was at least a decade
> ago and I definitely have less strength and flexibility than I did then. I
> tried comparing the two on Bike Insights
> 
> and it seems like the short 60mm stem could work but obviously the 'Nitto
> spread bar' that came on this bike is very different.
>
> In terms of reach, am I right in thinking that changing the stem length
> can accommodate the longer or shorter reach of any given bar? Or are they
> two different things that do not have the same effect on your position?
> On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 10:03:07 AM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[George Schick]

"Common wisdom" (if there ever was or still is such a thing) in the "old 
days" was not to use a stem length so short that it would position the 
hands too far behind a vertical line from the hands on the brake hoods (or 
bar drops) to the center of the front axle or conversely, so long that it 
would position the hands too far forward of the axle using the same 
vertical line.  Either may result in poor bike steering/handling.  Not sure 
if that same logic still applies in the experience of others or not.  At 
what angle have you positioned the brake levers on those Blue Lug bars?  So 
the lever hoods are pointed straight forward?  Or tilted back a few degrees 
so that your hands feel like they're resting in a secure place that you 
don't have to reach excessively to get to?


On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 1:56:56 PM UTC-5 Jamie D. wrote:

> Wow, such excellent and insightful responses so far! I am definitely NOT 
> trying to put drop bars on a Clem though I'm sure someone has tried. It's 
> less about pain (which feels inevitable since I'm not in the best shape, 
> I'm working on that), it's more that I feel restless on the bars. I keep 
> trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I think 
> the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 'look up' 
> bringing my neck out of line with my back.
>
> For context, I am currently experimenting with a recently acquired 56cm 
> Quickbeam. I'm 5' 10.5" tall with a 85cm PBH and 74cm saddle height. I 
> tried the stock 42cm noodles with a 90cm stem bars level to the saddle and 
> these were too narrow and I felt like a was leaning too far forward. My 
> current setup is a 60mm 90-190 stem with these Blue Lug bars 
>  in the 
> 480mm width. The hood position of the bar is currently around 4cm above the 
> sit bone level of the Brooks B17 saddle with the nose pointed up roughly 10 
> degrees. My intention was to try and recreate my most comfortable drop bar 
> bike ever which was a Miyata Alumicross set up very close to this 
> .
>  
> The last time I rode this bike (I no longer have it) was at least a decade 
> ago and I definitely have less strength and flexibility than I did then. I 
> tried comparing the two on Bike Insights 
> 
>  
> and it seems like the short 60mm stem could work but obviously the 'Nitto 
> spread bar' that came on this bike is very different.
>
> In terms of reach, am I right in thinking that changing the stem length 
> can accommodate the longer or shorter reach of any given bar? Or are they 
> two different things that do not have the same effect on your position?
> On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 10:03:07 AM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Morning all,
>>
>> I don't post a lot here, but this is a subject that piques my interest.. 
>> :) 
>>
>> First, for anyone interested in learning a bit more about bike fit, I'd 
>> point you to "Bikefit James" on YouTube.. he has some fantastic videos that 
>> are aimed at regular people like us IMHO.. 
>>
>> Ok, so there has been some great advice already, not a whole lot I can 
>> add, but I'll try! ;^)  I came to Riv back in the mid-2000s when the 
>> "country bikes" where just starting to hit the streets and got a Bleriot 
>> with drops (Noodles), keep it for a while, but it always felt too large 
>> (went with Grant's sizing, whole other story) and sold it. Was without a 
>> Riv for bit until my Dad passed and I was given his Homer set up with 
>> Albatross bars from Riv. Tried to ride it as it was (to honor Dad), but 
>> just couldn't do it, so uncomfortable IMHO.. replaced the alt bars first 
>> with a set of Noodles I had and just didn't jive (felt long), finally 
>> picked up a Velo Orange 31.8 removable faceplate stem and have a set of 
>> Specialized "short reach alloy flare" bars on Homer now with fantastic 
>> results. Maybe it's sacrilege to have Specialized bars on a Riv, but 
>> whatever.. :D 
>>
>> I guess my point is, for me, alt bars for sure didn't work for me and 
>> even the older style drop bars like Noodles and other older "modern" bars I 
>> tried never really felt good to me.. my hands/arms/etc seem to like a 
>> modern (within the last 5 yrs maybe) style of bar with a shallow bar and 
>> shorter reach and little flare (not a lot, just a little). Using the Velo 
>> Orange stem (Nitto makes one as well I think) allows me to use modern bars 
>> and swap so easily compared to a traditional quill.. Also, I currently run 
>> my bars roughly at saddle level, maybe .5 cm below and ride a lot in the 
>> drops when cruising along.. I do like the article reposted above and, I 
>> agree, it's shame Riv has seemed to have gone away from anything that's not 
>> super long chainstays and alt bars for t

[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Jamie D.]

Wow, such excellent and insightful responses so far! I am definitely NOT 
trying to put drop bars on a Clem though I'm sure someone has tried. It's 
less about pain (which feels inevitable since I'm not in the best shape, 
I'm working on that), it's more that I feel restless on the bars. I keep 
trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I think 
the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 'look up' 
bringing my neck out of line with my back.

For context, I am currently experimenting with a recently acquired 56cm 
Quickbeam. I'm 5' 10.5" tall with a 85cm PBH and 74cm saddle height. I 
tried the stock 42cm noodles with a 90cm stem bars level to the saddle and 
these were too narrow and I felt like a was leaning too far forward. My 
current setup is a 60mm 90-190 stem with these Blue Lug bars 
 in the 
480mm width. The hood position of the bar is currently around 4cm above the 
sit bone level of the Brooks B17 saddle with the nose pointed up roughly 10 
degrees. My intention was to try and recreate my most comfortable drop bar 
bike ever which was a Miyata Alumicross set up very close to this 
.
 
The last time I rode this bike (I no longer have it) was at least a decade 
ago and I definitely have less strength and flexibility than I did then. I 
tried comparing the two on Bike Insights 

 
and it seems like the short 60mm stem could work but obviously the 'Nitto 
spread bar' that came on this bike is very different.

In terms of reach, am I right in thinking that changing the stem length can 
accommodate the longer or shorter reach of any given bar? Or are they two 
different things that do not have the same effect on your position?
On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 10:03:07 AM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> Morning all,
>
> I don't post a lot here, but this is a subject that piques my interest.. 
> :) 
>
> First, for anyone interested in learning a bit more about bike fit, I'd 
> point you to "Bikefit James" on YouTube.. he has some fantastic videos that 
> are aimed at regular people like us IMHO.. 
>
> Ok, so there has been some great advice already, not a whole lot I can 
> add, but I'll try! ;^)  I came to Riv back in the mid-2000s when the 
> "country bikes" where just starting to hit the streets and got a Bleriot 
> with drops (Noodles), keep it for a while, but it always felt too large 
> (went with Grant's sizing, whole other story) and sold it. Was without a 
> Riv for bit until my Dad passed and I was given his Homer set up with 
> Albatross bars from Riv. Tried to ride it as it was (to honor Dad), but 
> just couldn't do it, so uncomfortable IMHO.. replaced the alt bars first 
> with a set of Noodles I had and just didn't jive (felt long), finally 
> picked up a Velo Orange 31.8 removable faceplate stem and have a set of 
> Specialized "short reach alloy flare" bars on Homer now with fantastic 
> results. Maybe it's sacrilege to have Specialized bars on a Riv, but 
> whatever.. :D 
>
> I guess my point is, for me, alt bars for sure didn't work for me and even 
> the older style drop bars like Noodles and other older "modern" bars I 
> tried never really felt good to me.. my hands/arms/etc seem to like a 
> modern (within the last 5 yrs maybe) style of bar with a shallow bar and 
> shorter reach and little flare (not a lot, just a little). Using the Velo 
> Orange stem (Nitto makes one as well I think) allows me to use modern bars 
> and swap so easily compared to a traditional quill.. Also, I currently run 
> my bars roughly at saddle level, maybe .5 cm below and ride a lot in the 
> drops when cruising along.. I do like the article reposted above and, I 
> agree, it's shame Riv has seemed to have gone away from anything that's not 
> super long chainstays and alt bars for the most part.. Finally, you might 
> be surprised at how narrow of a saddle you might want.. I'm not a skinny 
> guy (200ish#, stocky) and I find I like a more narrow saddle like a 
> 130-140mm vs a wider one that many might want to put me on.. I've learned 
> from watching the bike fit guy I mentioned initially (and others) that your 
> sit bones don't always correspond to your "body size" and many would have 
> you think.. :) 
>
> Happy riding!! 
> Chris 
>
> On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 6:31:13 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Also maybe some basic info about the bike.  Specifically, this Original 
>> Poster was asking for advice about using a Clem Smith Jr in a small urban 
>> living space.  That was last Winter.  If the bike in question is a Clem 
>> Smith Jr, and the Original Poster is trying to get drop bars comfortable on 
>> a Clem Smith Jr, then that's a really tough objective.  The top tube length 
>> is probably WAY too long. 

[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Chris Fly]

Morning all,

I don't post a lot here, but this is a subject that piques my interest.. :) 

First, for anyone interested in learning a bit more about bike fit, I'd 
point you to "Bikefit James" on YouTube.. he has some fantastic videos that 
are aimed at regular people like us IMHO.. 

Ok, so there has been some great advice already, not a whole lot I can add, 
but I'll try! ;^)  I came to Riv back in the mid-2000s when the "country 
bikes" where just starting to hit the streets and got a Bleriot with drops 
(Noodles), keep it for a while, but it always felt too large (went with 
Grant's sizing, whole other story) and sold it. Was without a Riv for bit 
until my Dad passed and I was given his Homer set up with Albatross bars 
from Riv. Tried to ride it as it was (to honor Dad), but just couldn't do 
it, so uncomfortable IMHO.. replaced the alt bars first with a set of 
Noodles I had and just didn't jive (felt long), finally picked up a Velo 
Orange 31.8 removable faceplate stem and have a set of Specialized "short 
reach alloy flare" bars on Homer now with fantastic results. Maybe it's 
sacrilege to have Specialized bars on a Riv, but whatever.. :D 

I guess my point is, for me, alt bars for sure didn't work for me and even 
the older style drop bars like Noodles and other older "modern" bars I 
tried never really felt good to me.. my hands/arms/etc seem to like a 
modern (within the last 5 yrs maybe) style of bar with a shallow bar and 
shorter reach and little flare (not a lot, just a little). Using the Velo 
Orange stem (Nitto makes one as well I think) allows me to use modern bars 
and swap so easily compared to a traditional quill.. Also, I currently run 
my bars roughly at saddle level, maybe .5 cm below and ride a lot in the 
drops when cruising along.. I do like the article reposted above and, I 
agree, it's shame Riv has seemed to have gone away from anything that's not 
super long chainstays and alt bars for the most part.. Finally, you might 
be surprised at how narrow of a saddle you might want.. I'm not a skinny 
guy (200ish#, stocky) and I find I like a more narrow saddle like a 
130-140mm vs a wider one that many might want to put me on.. I've learned 
from watching the bike fit guy I mentioned initially (and others) that your 
sit bones don't always correspond to your "body size" and many would have 
you think.. :) 

Happy riding!! 
Chris 

On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 6:31:13 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Also maybe some basic info about the bike.  Specifically, this Original 
> Poster was asking for advice about using a Clem Smith Jr in a small urban 
> living space.  That was last Winter.  If the bike in question is a Clem 
> Smith Jr, and the Original Poster is trying to get drop bars comfortable on 
> a Clem Smith Jr, then that's a really tough objective.  The top tube length 
> is probably WAY too long.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 6:01:18 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 5:49:50 PM UTC-5 rcook...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> In what way (or ways) are your current bars uncomfortable, if you don't 
>> mind me asking?
>>
>>
>> I think it's important to start with the answer to that question before 
>> weighing in on potential solutions.
>>
>> As I've mentioned elsewhere, I recently moved to narrower bars, and I've 
>> also raised them on most my bikes so the tops are almost level with the 
>> saddle, vs the roughly 20-30mm drop I've had in the past. I am flexible in 
>> that direction in my hips and lower back, but I'm "on the wrong side of 60" 
>> and have had a couple of compression fractures in my thoracic spine, so I'm 
>> moving more toward comfortable than fast. Still, a deeper drop works well 
>> for me, especially with the tops of the bars up higher, so I can still get 
>> my torso farther down when desired. I find it very comfortable to ride on 
>> the drops for very long periods (hours) as long as the drops are angled, 
>> not parallel to the ground but at an angle that makes my wrists neutrally 
>> positioned. Very much "where my hands want to be" when on the drops. Other 
>> advice about the hands resting gently on the tops matches my experience, as 
>> Eddy Merckx I think is reported to have said, "like you're playing piano".
>>
>> The advice about the tops of the brake hoods coming straight off the top 
>> of the bars is a good starting point, but my experience has been that 
>> varies considerably depending on the specific bar and brake lever, as well 
>> as your preferred hand positions. Some brake levers come with wedges that 
>> allow for changing the angle. 
>>
>> Last bit of advice that I think is important. Torso position and 
>> hand/wrist/elbow/shoulder comfort are very dependent on how much effort you 
>> are putting into the pedals. A low torso position on the drops is only 
>> comfortable for me for longer periods if I'm riding pretty hard. There's 
>> probably no point trying to defin

[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Bill Lindsay]

Also maybe some basic info about the bike.  Specifically, this Original 
Poster was asking for advice about using a Clem Smith Jr in a small urban 
living space.  That was last Winter.  If the bike in question is a Clem 
Smith Jr, and the Original Poster is trying to get drop bars comfortable on 
a Clem Smith Jr, then that's a really tough objective.  The top tube length 
is probably WAY too long.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 6:01:18 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 5:49:50 PM UTC-5 rcook...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> In what way (or ways) are your current bars uncomfortable, if you don't 
> mind me asking?
>
>
> I think it's important to start with the answer to that question before 
> weighing in on potential solutions.
>
> As I've mentioned elsewhere, I recently moved to narrower bars, and I've 
> also raised them on most my bikes so the tops are almost level with the 
> saddle, vs the roughly 20-30mm drop I've had in the past. I am flexible in 
> that direction in my hips and lower back, but I'm "on the wrong side of 60" 
> and have had a couple of compression fractures in my thoracic spine, so I'm 
> moving more toward comfortable than fast. Still, a deeper drop works well 
> for me, especially with the tops of the bars up higher, so I can still get 
> my torso farther down when desired. I find it very comfortable to ride on 
> the drops for very long periods (hours) as long as the drops are angled, 
> not parallel to the ground but at an angle that makes my wrists neutrally 
> positioned. Very much "where my hands want to be" when on the drops. Other 
> advice about the hands resting gently on the tops matches my experience, as 
> Eddy Merckx I think is reported to have said, "like you're playing piano".
>
> The advice about the tops of the brake hoods coming straight off the top 
> of the bars is a good starting point, but my experience has been that 
> varies considerably depending on the specific bar and brake lever, as well 
> as your preferred hand positions. Some brake levers come with wedges that 
> allow for changing the angle. 
>
> Last bit of advice that I think is important. Torso position and 
> hand/wrist/elbow/shoulder comfort are very dependent on how much effort you 
> are putting into the pedals. A low torso position on the drops is only 
> comfortable for me for longer periods if I'm riding pretty hard. There's 
> probably no point trying to define that "pretty hard" further than my 
> preferred "zone 2" definition which is that I'm thinking about my 
> breathing, keeping it to nose breathing, and I can carry on a conversation 
> but a short sentence at a time. The reason for this is my legs and core are 
> bearing a large portion of my weight, and I'm on the verge of actually 
> pulling up on the bars rather than resting any weight on them. Or, as 
> others describe it, I can take my hands off the bars and not plonk my nose 
> on the stem.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>

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[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 5:49:50 PM UTC-5 rcook...@gmail.com wrote:

In what way (or ways) are your current bars uncomfortable, if you don't 
mind me asking?


I think it's important to start with the answer to that question before 
weighing in on potential solutions.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I recently moved to narrower bars, and I've 
also raised them on most my bikes so the tops are almost level with the 
saddle, vs the roughly 20-30mm drop I've had in the past. I am flexible in 
that direction in my hips and lower back, but I'm "on the wrong side of 60" 
and have had a couple of compression fractures in my thoracic spine, so I'm 
moving more toward comfortable than fast. Still, a deeper drop works well 
for me, especially with the tops of the bars up higher, so I can still get 
my torso farther down when desired. I find it very comfortable to ride on 
the drops for very long periods (hours) as long as the drops are angled, 
not parallel to the ground but at an angle that makes my wrists neutrally 
positioned. Very much "where my hands want to be" when on the drops. Other 
advice about the hands resting gently on the tops matches my experience, as 
Eddy Merckx I think is reported to have said, "like you're playing piano".

The advice about the tops of the brake hoods coming straight off the top of 
the bars is a good starting point, but my experience has been that varies 
considerably depending on the specific bar and brake lever, as well as your 
preferred hand positions. Some brake levers come with wedges that allow for 
changing the angle. 

Last bit of advice that I think is important. Torso position and 
hand/wrist/elbow/shoulder comfort are very dependent on how much effort you 
are putting into the pedals. A low torso position on the drops is only 
comfortable for me for longer periods if I'm riding pretty hard. There's 
probably no point trying to define that "pretty hard" further than my 
preferred "zone 2" definition which is that I'm thinking about my 
breathing, keeping it to nose breathing, and I can carry on a conversation 
but a short sentence at a time. The reason for this is my legs and core are 
bearing a large portion of my weight, and I'm on the verge of actually 
pulling up on the bars rather than resting any weight on them. Or, as 
others describe it, I can take my hands off the bars and not plonk my nose 
on the stem.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[George Schick]

Here's a snippet from an '04 Riv Reader article by a musculoskeletal 
professional about bars and bar heights.  Whatever happened to this kind of 
wisdom in the onrushing advent of the current offering of frames, stems, 
and swooping high bars by Riv?

Raise Dat Stem!

by Bob Gordon

A flat back is one of the hallmarks of an experienced cyclist, particularly 
a racer, and over the years I have seen the prevailing attitudes towards 
rider positioning devolve to the point where if you don't cycle with your 
back parallel to the ground, you're cast off as a beginner.

But like many other concepts recreational riders adopt, the low back 
originated in the professional ranks after extensive research in 
aerodynamics proved this would help the fast go faster. Competitive 
athletes routinely sacrifice both their short and long term health for the 
express purpose of winning, but you may have a different agenda.

Lower back disc problems peak the ages of 30 and 50. There are many causes, 
but if your back pain is exacerbated by riding, it's a good bet the cause 
is bouncing around on your bike while your lower spine is extensively 
flexed (loss of lower back arch). A low, forward torso causes the inner 
portion of the disc (the nucleus purposes) to press back against the outer 
restraining fibers (the annulus fibroses). This pressure eventually causes 
the disc to bulge or herniate. The nearby nerves get squeezed, and the next 
thing you know, someone like me is telling you you have sciatica.

Cycling mitigates some of the problems of a habitually flexed lumbar spine 
because of the "bridge effect" that's created by resting some of your 
weight on your hands. But the lumbar region and its soft tissues are still 
at risk just by being continuously hyper flexed, and if you sit all day at 
your job, the danger is compounded.

On the flip side, cycling entirely upright does not solve the problem 
either. True, the inter-vertebral discs and spinal ligaments are in a more 
neutral position and absorb shock better, but the load is now transmitted 
axially, which is fatiguing and jarring. Also, in a bolt-upright position 
you can't use your gluteus or hamstrings to great advantage, which means 
your thighs (quadriceps) get overworked, you lose a lot of power, the 
unused hamstrings and gluteal muscles go flabby, and you catch all that 
wind. It's hard to be happy about all that, racer or no.

There is, however, a position that allows good performance while minimizing 
risk of lower back injury. I like a stem height and length that puts your 
back about 50 degrees from horizontal, while your arms and legs bend 
slightly at the elbows, as shown in figure 2 up there. To achieve this, 
you'll probably have to raise your bars, and assuming you want to keep the 
same bar style (as opposed to riding with stingray bars or something), that 
usually means getting another stem, one with a taller quill or a steep rise 
to it. If you hit the sweet spot, a photo of you from the side will reveal 
a nice pyramid composed of top tube, torso and arms.

Notice the final sentence, "...If you hit the sweet spot, a photo of you 
from the side will reveal a nice pyramid composed of top tube, torso and 
arms..."
On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 5:16:24 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> This is excellent advice.
>
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2025 at 3:35 PM Elisabeth Sherwood  
> wrote:
>
>> … I encourage you to, as you’re riding, trying to imagine where your 
>> hands *would like to be*.  If you're riding along, and your back is at an 
>> angle that you're comfortable at, where would your hands be if you just let 
>> your arms extend gently out at about an 80-degree angle from your torso?  
>> Would they be higher?  Lower?  Closer?  Further? 
>>
>
>> And, if you can identify that spot, what would it take to get the 
>> handlebars into that position?  A different stem?  A different handlebar?  
>> A different stem/handlebar combination? 
>>
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2025 at 3:35 PM Elisabeth Sherwood  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jamie,
>>
>> As with so many other things, unfortunately the answer is "it depends"!
>>
>> I think Will's advice re. type of bars and how to set them up is spot on. 
>> I find modern shallow-drop, relatively-short-reach handlebars to be 
>> enormously comfortable, and the best way to set up brake levers is to have 
>> them "coming out" of the top of the bars pretty evenly -- the continuous 
>> surface that Will mentioned.   (Note that modern bars are really so 
>> different from bars from even 15 years ago.  And bars from 25-30-40 years 
>> ago, with brake levers placed kind of on the middle of the drop portion of 
>> the bars?  I have no idea how anyone got comfortable on them!)
>>
>> The rest really depends on the source of your discomfort.  If your bike 
>> is actually appropriate for drop bars (and it seems that most "modern" 
>> Rivendells are not), try to identify what's going on...   Are you 
>> uncomfortable because there is too much pressure on

[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Bob]

Jamie,

I second Elisabeth's and Patrick's advice. I spent a couple years holding 
my hands—as well as I could while riding—where they would feel most 
comfortable, and experimenting with bar height, width, and shape, as well 
as stem length. It was a bit of a pain, but when I got my Homer with 
downtube shifters, swapping stems and bars was relatively straightforward.

I settled on relatively narrow drop bars with a longish reach and deep 
drop. I set the top of the bars 2 to 3 cm *above* saddle height. I'm slim, 
and drop bars wider than 37 or 38 cm at the ramps are uncomfortable for my 
shoulders and neck. Likewise most flat/upright bars (except Albatross). I 
ride mostly on the ramps.

In what way (or ways) are your current bars uncomfortable, if you don't 
mind me asking?

--
Bob

On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 10:28:42 AM UTC-6 Jamie D. wrote:

> I keep trying drop bars in various forms and fashions and can never seem 
> to get comfortable. Obviously this is subjective but in your experience is 
> higher bars with shorter reach the most comfortable? Is there a 
> 'goldilocks' zone? Any wisdom you could share would be greatly appreciated!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Patrick Moore]

This is excellent advice.

On Mon, Sep 8, 2025 at 3:35 PM Elisabeth Sherwood <
elisabeth.sherw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> … I encourage you to, as you’re riding, trying to imagine where your hands
> *would like to be*.  If you're riding along, and your back is at an angle
> that you're comfortable at, where would your hands be if you just let your
> arms extend gently out at about an 80-degree angle from your torso?  Would
> they be higher?  Lower?  Closer?  Further?
>
> And, if you can identify that spot, what would it take to get the
> handlebars into that position?  A different stem?  A different handlebar?
> A different stem/handlebar combination?
>




On Mon, Sep 8, 2025 at 3:35 PM Elisabeth Sherwood <
elisabeth.sherw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Jamie,
>
> As with so many other things, unfortunately the answer is "it depends"!
>
> I think Will's advice re. type of bars and how to set them up is spot on.
> I find modern shallow-drop, relatively-short-reach handlebars to be
> enormously comfortable, and the best way to set up brake levers is to have
> them "coming out" of the top of the bars pretty evenly -- the continuous
> surface that Will mentioned.   (Note that modern bars are really so
> different from bars from even 15 years ago.  And bars from 25-30-40 years
> ago, with brake levers placed kind of on the middle of the drop portion of
> the bars?  I have no idea how anyone got comfortable on them!)
>
> The rest really depends on the source of your discomfort.  If your bike is
> actually appropriate for drop bars (and it seems that most "modern"
> Rivendells are not), try to identify what's going on...   Are you
> uncomfortable because there is too much pressure on your hands?  In my
> experience maybe 15% of the time it's because the bars are too low, and
> you're falling "onto" the bars.  But I find that probably 80% of the time
> (and this being a Riv forum I'll probably get lectured about this) it's
> because the bars are too high, and what you're actually feeling is pressure
> coming from the handlebars onto your hands/shoulders/neck, and/or too far
> (in which case, while you're not falling onto the bars, you've got your
> body weight falling forward in a way that you can't relieve through your
> core or through your leg strength as you pedal).
>
> I encourage you to, as you're riding, trying to imagine where your hands
> *would like to be*.  If you're riding along, and your back is at an angle
> that you're comfortable at, where would your hands be if you just let your
> arms extend gently out at about an 80-degree angle from your torso?  Would
> they be higher?  Lower?  Closer?  Further?
>
> And, if you can identify that spot, what would it take to get the
> handlebars into that position?  A different stem?  A different handlebar?
> A different stem/handlebar combination?
>
> Oh, also, handlebar positions depends a lot on body geometry.  Pro racers
> whose handlebars are so very low compared to their saddles?  Their back
> angles on the bike are not really all that different from most moderately
> serious recreational riders.  But they tend to have really long limbs, so
> their bikes are set up in ways that mere mortals could never contemplate.
> For those of us with *relatively* short arms, we'll need the handlebars
> higher and closer than those with relatively longer arms.
>
> (How do you know if you have relatively short or long arms?  When I sit on
> the ground with my legs straight out and my back perpendicular, I can't
> actually touch the ground with my palms.  I know people that sit the same
> way and their arms are bent at like a 120-degree angle.  Even if we're the
> same height, our handlebars will need to be set up completely differently
> in order for us to be comfortable.)
>
> No idea if that helps...  Good luck!
>
> Elisabeth Sherwood
> Washington, DC
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 12:28:42 PM UTC-4 Jamie D. wrote:
>
>> I keep trying drop bars in various forms and fashions and can never seem
>> to get comfortable. Obviously this is subjective but in your experience is
>> higher bars with shorter reach the most comfortable? Is there a
>> 'goldilocks' zone? Any wisdom you could share would be greatly appreciated!
>
> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, b

[RBW] Re: Please impart your drop bar wisdom here

[Will Boericke]

I think I'm a contrarian voice in this forum: I exclusively run drop bars 
on any bike that is not a mountain bike.  To a certain extent, I think it's 
a what-you're-used-to kind of thing.  If they don't work for you, that's 
okay!

That said, I like bars that have shallow drop and where I can get the lever 
hoods in a straight line from the tops (so there's a continuous surface 
along the top of the bars).  Getting them the right distance from your 
saddle and the correct height is non-trivial.  I think a good starting 
point is level with your saddle.  I like to set them up so the drops are 
usable (higher than your average roadie).

Also, if you're using drop bars, you probably want a different saddle 
(narrower) than swept-back bars, which might be contributing to discomfort.



On Monday, September 8, 2025 at 12:28:42 PM UTC-4 Jamie D. wrote:

> I keep trying drop bars in various forms and fashions and can never seem 
> to get comfortable. Obviously this is subjective but in your experience is 
> higher bars with shorter reach the most comfortable? Is there a 
> 'goldilocks' zone? Any wisdom you could share would be greatly appreciated!

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