[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-10 Thread David Banzer 
As I've been locking up my Clem around town, I added a security-type skewer 
to the rear wheel as the quick release was kind of a pain. Works better 
than a quick release IMO with the dropout.
David
Chicago

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 12:09:34 PM UTC-6, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Oh yeah, dropping the rear wheel out involves removing the nut on the 
> skewer because it gets stuck between the derailer and Breezer-style 
> dropout. The Clem/Clementine look and ride great, but they're definitely a 
> challenge to fiddle with until you know your way around them. I'm learning 
> fast!

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-10 Thread Joe Bernard 
Oh yeah, dropping the rear wheel out involves removing the nut on the skewer 
because it gets stuck between the derailer and Breezer-style dropout. The 
Clem/Clementine look and ride great, but they're definitely a challenge to 
fiddle with until you know your way around them. I'm learning fast!

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-10 Thread masmojo 
For what it's worth,  I have assembled almost every bike I own (which is a fair 
number) & in my late teens I worked in a bike shop, so I probably built a 
hundred or so bike during my stint there, but my Clementine was by far the most 
difficult I ever had to deal with. A myriad of small little nit-picky, annoying 
problems; aside from the tread issues mentioned above,  I had a bottom bracket 
that just did not like the theading on the Clementine BB!? The 135mm spacing 
and log chainstays make mounting a rear rack somewhat challenging,  some 
eyelets seem oddly spaced, the wheel skewer hits on the derailleur when 
removing the rear wheel,and a half dozen smaller little things that I don't 
remember now.
On the plus side,  when I got to building the second one,  it went much 
smoother! ;-)

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Joe Bernard 
It makes sense, but I already used the metal plate on the inside of the 
braze-ons. I tried to visualize attaching both struts directly without the 
plate, but it looked like too much unnecessary gymnastics. It's all good now, I 
just wish I could have seen instructions for this model when I started. Going 
by the Cheviot video at rivbike.com didn't work, plus I didn't realize the bike 
had different sized mounts. Hopefully this thread will solve these issues for 
future CLEM owners. 

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread iamkeith 
Sounds like you've got this figured out, Joe, but here are a couple of 
notes from my own experience mounting the Clem/Pletscher rack to my Clem 
frame, in case it helps others, or in case you want to experiment further:

1.  I've so far opted for the biggest tires I can fit, on my 59/700c frame 
- 2.4" Maxis Ardents in this case.  As such, the rear rack struts weren't 
nearly wide enough to clear the tire.  An easy fix was to cut the rivets 
off, and re-mount the struts to the *outside* of the lugs on the bottom of 
the rack, using one of the many extra bolts that are included.  To do this, 
I also had to cut off the tabs that held the mini-pump pegs.   About 5 
minutes work with a dremel tool, but I think it actually looks better.  See 
picture below.


2.  I too attached to the extra M6 brazeons located higher up on the seat 
stays.  Because of the overall height of the 29er tire, I was also forced 
to use the stamped metal tabs to get enough vertical clearance.  I mounted 
them to the *inside* of the brazeons, even with the relocated, wider rear 
struts .   However I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet that a 
52 or 45cm frame (or even a 59cm with a smaller tire) could use this rack 
*without* the metal tabs!  I personally think those  are the only mickey 
mouse detail on an otherwise stout and much-nicer-than-I-ever-expected 
rack.  Basically, just bolt the struts directly to the brazeon.   The 
shifted geometry would mean that forward strut wouldn't be quite vertical, 
but I can't see why that would matter.  And the platform would shift 
slightly forward when set to level, but the Clem has *plenty* of room to 
spare.  (Hope that makes sense...)


On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 3:23:29 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Ugh, I give up kids. I switched to the lower M5 eyelet, which had the rack 
> to far away for the upper struts to reach seatstay eyelets. So I found a 
> couple M6 bolts and tried the original location. This caused the flat steel 
> lower mounting plate to interfere with the Breezer-style dropout, also 
> preventing the rack from reaching the seatstay eyelets. The lower-cost rack 
> intended for the lower-cost Riv does not fit the bike. Oy!

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch 


By "not long enough," I mean not long enough to span distance created by 
the long chainstays; those lower seatstay braze-ons are quite a bit forward 
of the drop-out braze-ons.

And here you can sort of see what I mean about the interference when the 
two braze-ons are stacked (though a better shot would show the fact that 
the fender stay protrudes forward into the plane that some rack legs would 
likely want to occupy)




: 



On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 7:24:00 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
>  I assume the seatstay was added to accommodate racks that are not long 
> enough to reach the upper braze-ons--in this position, a rack designed for 
> a 26" bike might work well on the 650B and 700c Clems.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Joe Bernard 
The deed is done now, but that little adventure kinda sucked. I've mounted lots 
of racks, and never had these problems before. I'm glad it's solved now, but 
I'm not thrilled to have marked up the rear dropouts on my brand new bike. Time 
to find BRG touch-up paint...

Thanks for all your help, kids,
Joe "M6??" Bernard
Vallejo, CA. 

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch 


I feel your pain. I spent the better part of a day dealing with front and 
rear rackage on my Clementine, some details of which can be found in my 
mega post, My Darling Clementine: A Saga. 


There are three sets of braze-ons that can technically be used to install 
the bottom portion of a rack; two on the dropout and one a bit higher on 
the seatstay. The one on the seat stay and the upper of the two on the 
dropout both take M6 bolts, while the lowest braze-on takes an M5. This is 
because its most likely use would be for fender stays. I assume the 
seatstay was added to accommodate racks that are not long enough to reach 
the upper braze-ons--in this position, a rack designed for a 26" bike might 
work well on the 650B and 700c Clems.

One reason I dislike the Breezer-style dropouts is due to this possibility 
of interference. Also, the way the two dropout braze-ons stack right on top 
of one another can be problematic, because the fender stay is close enough 
to interfere with many rack legs, including my Moose Rack. A less 
problematic design in this regard is seen here on my Kuwahara:







Note that the upper, more forward braze-on, for the rack, is unthreaded, to 
take a thicker, stronger bolt and nut.

I had to drill out the aft hole on my Moose Rack to accommodate an M6.

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 5:23:29 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:

Ugh, I give up kids. I switched to the lower M5 eyelet, which had the rack 
> to far away for the upper struts to reach seatstay eyelets. So I found a 
> couple M6 bolts and tried the original location. This caused the flat steel 
> lower mounting plate to interfere with the Breezer-style dropout, also 
> preventing the rack from reaching the seatstay eyelets. The lower-cost rack 
> intended for the lower-cost Riv does not fit the bike. Oy!

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Joe Bernard 
Ok, I'm working on the other M6 mounts right now. It's looking good. 

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Bryan Pizzillo 
Try mounting it on the braze ons higher up on the seat stays.  Those are 
actually M6 as well.  That is where I mounted a Nitto Mt Campee, albeit I 
had to mount it to the inside, but it was no biggie.  I also found when 
attempting to use M5 bolts and jury rigging on the dropouts that the 
hardware would have interfered with the chain/cassette.  Anyway, everything 
is good on the higher ups.  

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 6:17:15 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I test-fitted that idea and ended up with the opposite problem: the rack 
> was too high and close. I just found a couple of frame clamps which drop in 
> between those two positions, so we'll see how it goes. It seems silly to 
> need clamps on a frame with braze-ons all over the place, but I have the 
> rack and parts here, so what the heck. I shoulda bought a Nitto...

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Bill Lindsay 
Yikes.  Call Mark and let him tell you the best way to do it.  I'd file an 
edge off the flat part of the Pletscher rack before resorting to clamps. 
 In fact, I'd never use clamps to mount the lower legs of a rear rack. 
 That's what takes ALL the load.  Clamps up top to stabilize is OK, but not 
down low.  

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 3:17:15 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I test-fitted that idea and ended up with the opposite problem: the rack 
> was too high and close. I just found a couple of frame clamps which drop in 
> between those two positions, so we'll see how it goes. It seems silly to 
> need clamps on a frame with braze-ons all over the place, but I have the 
> rack and parts here, so what the heck. I shoulda bought a Nitto...

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Joe Bernard 
I test-fitted that idea and ended up with the opposite problem: the rack was 
too high and close. I just found a couple of frame clamps which drop in between 
those two positions, so we'll see how it goes. It seems silly to need clamps on 
a frame with braze-ons all over the place, but I have the rack and parts here, 
so what the heck. I shoulda bought a Nitto...

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Bill Lindsay 
How about the ones about one or maybe two inches up from the dropouts?  The 
lowest ones brazed on to the seat stays.  Those are M5, and should give you 
no interference problems with the flat plate of the clem rack, and should 
allow the struts to reach easily.   

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 2:23:29 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Ugh, I give up kids. I switched to the lower M5 eyelet, which had the rack 
> to far away for the upper struts to reach seatstay eyelets. So I found a 
> couple M6 bolts and tried the original location. This caused the flat steel 
> lower mounting plate to interfere with the Breezer-style dropout, also 
> preventing the rack from reaching the seatstay eyelets. The lower-cost rack 
> intended for the lower-cost Riv does not fit the bike. Oy!

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Joe Bernard 
Ugh, I give up kids. I switched to the lower M5 eyelet, which had the rack to 
far away for the upper struts to reach seatstay eyelets. So I found a couple M6 
bolts and tried the original location. This caused the flat steel lower 
mounting plate to interfere with the Breezer-style dropout, also preventing the 
rack from reaching the seatstay eyelets. The lower-cost rack intended for the 
lower-cost Riv does not fit the bike. Oy!

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Tony DeFilippo 
Same issue with my wife's clementine... Liberal paint was an understatement. My 
first bolt sheared off in the braze on, then I sheared off a drill bit trying 
to drill it out... You can imagine what the audio was like in my garage.

I contacted Riv and their advice was to chase all the threads (of course) and 
they noted the m6 threaded braze on as well (which wasnt in play for me).

So I got a die kit, chased all the threads and installed using the next 
available braze on.  Frustrating, I blame myself.  I've prepped two frames pre 
powder coating before with much cleaner threads than the Clementine and I was 
in a rush to finish the build.  Should have slowed down.

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Bill Lindsay 
I don't think I have seen an M6 on a dropout before either.  I think it's a 
cute idea, and allows you to use a stronger bolt for some applications if 
you want to do that, but it is bound to cause some confusion.  It wouldn't 
be Rivendell if you weren't a little bit bewildered every once in a while, 
right?  Run a tap through to clean the paint out.  You'll use that M5x0.8 
over and over.  The M6x1.0 is also really useful.  Those two taps plus a 
handle for both will cost under $20 total at your Ace Hardware.  Clean the 
paint out with the tap, and you should be good to go.  

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 12:11:40 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> One is an M6? Well, this explains things..neither bolt feels like they're 
> in there tight enough. I've never seen this on a dropout before. 

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Mark Reimer 
My Atlantis has a totally stripped front rack eyelet as well. No problem. I 
just use a longer bolt and put a flat washer and nylon lock nut on the back 
side. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's a stronger connection than the stock 
setup! 

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 2:14:46 PM UTC-6, masmojo wrote:
>
> Just to add to this somewhat, the paint on these frames is liberally 
> applied,  and it seems to pool in the threaded eyelets for the racks & 
> whatnot. I ended up getting taps and chasing the theads on the detailer 
> hanger, and all the other threaded bits!
> Prior to doing this the screws would not thread in straight &  I was 
> afraid I would strip  or crossthread them the way things were going. 
> After chasing all the threads everything went smoothly!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Ron Mc 
this - use longer M5 with nylock on the other side, or a star lock washer 
with a half (thickness) nut




On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 7:30:33 AM UTC-6, mike goldman wrote:
>
> or use a nut/washer on the inside end 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Bryan Pizzillo 
Did you use an M6 screw?  I had the same issue attempting to mount a 
different rack to my Clem as the screws were M5s.  The M5s some what held, 
but it was really just paint holding them in.

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 8:16:43 AM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Whelp, I installed my Pletscher rack last night, and the right rear bolt 
> went in, but got loose before bottoming out. I was able to keep everything 
> connected by backing it out a smidge, but I don't trust that bolt to stay 
> there on bumpy rides. What do I do now?

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Deacon Patrick 
M5 bolts are required. The rack comes with M4?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 6:16:43 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Whelp, I installed my Pletscher rack last night, and the right rear bolt 
> went in, but got loose before bottoming out. I was able to keep everything 
> connected by backing it out a smidge, but I don't trust that bolt to stay 
> there on bumpy rides. What do I do now?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread [email protected] 
or use a nut/washer on the inside end 

Protect what matters
Knowing your flood risk and being prepared can help keep your family safe ...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/56b89853467b18524a78st03duc

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[RBW] Re: Stripped CLEM dropout braze-on

2016-02-08 Thread Jeffrey Marco 
re tap with the next size up?

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 8:16:43 AM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Whelp, I installed my Pletscher rack last night, and the right rear bolt 
> went in, but got loose before bottoming out. I was able to keep everything 
> connected by backing it out a smidge, but I don't trust that bolt to stay 
> there on bumpy rides. What do I do now?

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