[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-10 Thread RDS 
Thanks for the info.  Does anyone know if the Sugino double or triple is 
Shimano STI shifter compatable?

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 4:37:29 PM UTC-4, reynoldslugs wrote:
>
> yes, works fine.  The set up you describe is working well on my Gunnar 
> Crosshairs, commuter.  Pics here:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157628055130729
>
> Mine is either 24-40 or 26-40. with an 11-34.  I am able to use the full 
> cassette on the large (40) chainring, but not quite with the small 
> chainring - it gets a little grindy when using the small cogs on the 
> cassette.
>
> good luck
>
> Max B
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-10 Thread sameness 
Man, at least light a candle and open some wine first.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 9:39:00 AM UTC-7, reynoldslugs wrote:
>
> another lurid view:
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/14752341602/in/album-72157645542691980/
>
> On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 10:52:34 AM UTC-7, sameness wrote:
>>
>> Whoa. Those cranks need to be tagged NSFW.
>>
>> Jeff Hagedorn
>> Los Angeles, CA USA
>>
>>
 Max

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-10 Thread reynoldslugs 
another lurid view:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/14752341602/in/album-72157645542691980/

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 10:52:34 AM UTC-7, sameness wrote:
>
> Whoa. Those cranks need to be tagged NSFW.
>
> Jeff Hagedorn
> Los Angeles, CA USA
>
>
>>> Max
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Ron Mc 
ps, the 5 narrow gears 63-88 inches is where I live on pavement 

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 4:58:49 PM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> hi Steve, 
> I use it mostly as a granny, and am most always on the 42T for pavement 
> riding.  However, I have 14% grades to get to my house.  So I will shift to 
> the 25T and use the full range for approach gears.  The range on the 25T 
> also covers most off-road needs and keeps the RD up out of harms way.  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Ron Mc 
hi Steve, 
I use it mostly as a granny, and am most always on the 42T for pavement 
riding.  However, I have 14% grades to get to my house.  So I will shift to 
the 25T and use the full range for approach gears.  The range on the 25T 
also covers most off-road needs and keeps the RD up out of harms way.  

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 4:38:24 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> How do you use/shift this?   1 by x with a granny?  Or do you use it like 
> a real double?   
>
> - Original Message - 
>
> For 700 X 35 / 35-622 tire with 170 mm cranks 
> With Custom Sprocket(s) Cassette 
> 25 68.0 % 42 
> 29 23.4 39.3 
> 20.8 % 
> 24 28.3 47.5 
> 14.3 % 
> 21 32.3 54.3 
> 16.7 % 
> 18 37.7 63.4 
> 12.5 % 
> 16 42.5 71.3 
> 6.7 % 
> 15 45.3 76.1 
> 7.1 % 
> 14 48.5 81.5 
> 7.7 % 
> 13 52.3 87.8 
> 8.3 % 
> 12 56.6 95.1 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Avery E Wilson 
I use mine as a 1x, with a bailout granny. Shift into it maybe a few times
a year.
On Jul 9, 2015 5:38 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:

> How do you use/shift this?   1 by x with a granny?  Or do you use it like
> a real double?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ron Mc" 
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 5:34:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI
> Compatible ??
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 2:45:50 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
>
> Yes, that should present no problem. Double shifting isn't so picky, and
> the CX-70 should clear the frame (it's designed for smaller rings).
>
>
> Newer double STI shifters have additional "cross-chain" detents, for
> trimming. I don't know when / what product level Shimano incorporated
> these, though.
>
>
> A wide-low (aka ultracompact) double, paired with a wide range cassette,
> can produce a very usable gearing range.
>
> I'll say - here's the gear chart for my custom cassette
>
>
> For 700 X 35 / 35-622 tire with 170 mm cranks
> With Custom Sprocket(s) Cassette
> 25  68.0 % 42
> 29 23.4 39.3
> 20.8 %
> 24 28.3 47.5
> 14.3 %
> 21 32.3 54.3
> 16.7 %
> 18 37.7 63.4
> 12.5 %
> 16 42.5 71.3
> 6.7 %
> 15 45.3 76.1
> 7.1 %
> 14 48.5 81.5
> 7.7 %
> 13 52.3 87.8
> 8.3 %
> 12 56.6 95.1
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best of luck,
> Tim
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:03 PM, RDS < [email protected] > wrote:
>
>
>
> Any idea if Shimano Double STI Shifters (sora, tiagra) would be compatible
> with the CX70 FD with the Sugino wide/low double crank?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Steve Palincsar 
How do you use/shift this?   1 by x with a granny?  Or do you use it like a 
real double?  

- Original Message -
From: "Ron Mc" 
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 5:34:55 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI 
Compatible ??




On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 2:45:50 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote: 


Yes, that should present no problem. Double shifting isn't so picky, and the 
CX-70 should clear the frame (it's designed for smaller rings). 


Newer double STI shifters have additional "cross-chain" detents, for trimming. 
I don't know when / what product level Shimano incorporated these, though. 


A wide-low (aka ultracompact) double, paired with a wide range cassette, can 
produce a very usable gearing range. 

I'll say - here's the gear chart for my custom cassette 


For 700 X 35 / 35-622 tire with 170 mm cranks 
With Custom Sprocket(s) Cassette 
25  68.0 % 42 
29 23.4 39.3 
20.8 % 
24 28.3 47.5 
14.3 % 
21 32.3 54.3 
16.7 % 
18 37.7 63.4 
12.5 % 
16 42.5 71.3 
6.7 % 
15 45.3 76.1 
7.1 % 
14 48.5 81.5 
7.7 % 
13 52.3 87.8 
8.3 % 
12 56.6 95.1 












Best of luck, 
Tim 



On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:03 PM, RDS < [email protected] > wrote: 



Any idea if Shimano Double STI Shifters (sora, tiagra) would be compatible with 
the CX70 FD with the Sugino wide/low double crank? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Ron Mc 


On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 2:45:50 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> Yes, that should present no problem.  Double shifting isn't so picky, and 
> the CX-70 should clear the frame (it's designed for smaller rings).
>
> Newer double STI shifters have additional "cross-chain" detents, for 
> trimming.  I don't know when / what product level Shimano incorporated 
> these, though.
>
> A wide-low (aka ultracompact) double, paired with a wide range cassette, 
> can produce a very usable gearing range.
>
 
I'll say - here's the gear chart for my custom cassette  

*For 700 X 35 / 35-622 tire with 170 mm cranks**With Custom Sprocket(s) 
Cassette*2568.0 %422923.439.320.8 %2428.347.514.3 %2132.354.316.7 %1837.7
63.412.5 %1642.571.36.7 %1545.376.17.1 %1448.581.57.7 %1352.387.88.3 %1256.6
95.1



 

>
> Best of luck,
> Tim
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:03 PM, RDS > 
> wrote:
>
>> Any idea if Shimano Double STI Shifters (sora, tiagra) would be 
>> compatible with the CX70 FD with the Sugino wide/low double crank?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Tim Gavin 
Yes, that should present no problem.  Double shifting isn't so picky, and
the CX-70 should clear the frame (it's designed for smaller rings).

Newer double STI shifters have additional "cross-chain" detents, for
trimming.  I don't know when / what product level Shimano incorporated
these, though.

A wide-low (aka ultracompact) double, paired with a wide range cassette,
can produce a very usable gearing range.

Best of luck,
Tim

On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:03 PM, RDS  wrote:

> Any idea if Shimano Double STI Shifters (sora, tiagra) would be compatible
> with the CX70 FD with the Sugino wide/low double crank?
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread RDS 
Any idea if Shimano Double STI Shifters (sora, tiagra) would be compatible 
with the CX70 FD with the Sugino wide/low double crank?

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 4:22:25 PM UTC-4, RDS wrote:
>
> Are the Sugino cranks that Riv sells (Triple (46/36/24) or Wide/Lo double) 
> compatible with 9 Speed Shimano STI Shifters?
>  
>
> With the Wide/Low crank, can you successfully use the full range of the 
> cassette with each front chainring (without cross-chain issues)?  For 
> example, if I had a 11/34 cassette, could I use the 40-11 as well as the 
> 40-34?  and could I use the 26-11 as well as the 26-34?  
>  
> Thanks In Advance
>
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Tim Gavin 
Clayton-

The CX-70--and many other "double" FDs--can work fine with a triple
crankset.  Except with Shimano STIs, which is the OP's question.

Jan Heine covered this particular issue well.  It's the same article where
he praises the CX-70, btw.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/trouble-with-sti-triples/

Campagnolo Ergopower shifters may be more versatile, as they don't actually
index as much as ratchet.

Or, try Gevenalle/Retroshifts.  I haven't tried them yet, but they have
lots of fans.  My friend tried them and said they're great once you adapt
to the shifting action.

Tim


On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Clayton.sf  wrote:

>
> Note that even though the cx70 is a double front derailer it worked well
> for me with a triple sugino too.
>
> Clayton Scott
> SF, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread sameness 
Whoa. Those cranks need to be tagged NSFW.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 10:22:33 AM UTC-7, reynoldslugs wrote:
>
> sorry everyone, that's obviously an NOS Superbe Pro on my Heron, not a new 
> Sun XCD.  
>
> Both work well.  I did put a Sun XCD on my Legolas (which has the new 
> Sugino wide range 26-40) and it works very, very well.
>
> Legolas here:
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/14752335602/in/album-72157645542691980/
>
> Apologies for the initial error, and for multiple posts.
>
>
>
>>
>> Max
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread reynoldslugs 
sorry everyone, that's obviously an NOS Superbe Pro on my Heron, not a new 
Sun XCD.  

Both work well.  I did put a Sun XCD on my Legolas (which has the new 
Sugino wide range 26-40) and it works very, very well.

Legolas here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/14752335602/in/album-72157645542691980/

Apologies for the initial error, and for multiple posts.



>
> Max
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread reynoldslugs 
The Sun XCD front derailleur works well for the wide-range front double.  I 
am using that setup on my Heron 650B:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/13018667345/in/album-72157642068014924/

Works great.

Max

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Clayton.sf 

Note that even though the cx70 is a double front derailer it worked well for me 
with a triple sugino too.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Ron Mc 
I have a compact double, 42/25T, 12-29 rear, and the Ultegra CX-70 that Riv 
sells is the Perfect front derailleur.  


  


As far as the RD and range, just do a chain wrap calculation, compare to 
the RD spec, and you'll know for sure if you can use every combination.  

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 8:37:05 AM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> As others have mentioned, the biggest issue will be finding a compatible 
> front derailleur.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Tim Gavin 
As others have mentioned, the biggest issue will be finding a compatible 
front derailleur.

Shimano STI shifters work with road front derailleurs, not with mountain 
ones.  Road triples are optmized around a larger crankset, like 50/39/30, 
and generally have longer cages that could hit the chainstay, since you'll 
be setting the FD up quite low.  

The IRD Alpina front derailer that Riv sells seems to be optimized for 
smaller rings, so it may be your best bet for a compact triple.  If you run 
a double, the CX-70 seems like a good option.

Personally, I've never been satisfied with the STI or Ergo triple setups 
I've tried.  Too awkward, too much effort, hard to trim, and generally 
subpar front shift performance (I'm satisfied with STI/Ergo double 
shifting).  My favorite shifter for a triple is the Silver bar-end.  It's 
smoother than the Shimano bar-ends and seems to have a bit more cable pull, 
which equals to shorter, stronger shift lever motions.  Conversely, I'm 
beginning to prefer Shimano bar-ends in indexed mode for the rear shifter. 
 In my experience, the friction thumbscrew is unreliable and always too 
tight or too loose.  I'm about to set up both my main bikes in such a 
Frankenstein combination, Silver on the left and Shimano on the right.

Regarding cross-chain issues, a properly set up double will allow you to 
shift to each extreme (big/big and small/small) without the chain rubbing 
on the front derailer (modern double STIs have additional "trim" positions 
in between).  That doesn't mean that it's a good idea to ride in those 
combinations.

Tim

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 3:22:25 PM UTC-5, RDS wrote:
>
> Are the Sugino cranks that Riv sells (Triple (46/36/24) or Wide/Lo double) 
> compatible with 9 Speed Shimano STI Shifters?
>  
>
> With the Wide/Low crank, can you successfully use the full range of the 
> cassette with each front chainring (without cross-chain issues)?  For 
> example, if I had a 11/34 cassette, could I use the 40-11 as well as the 
> 40-34?  and could I use the 26-11 as well as the 26-34?  
>  
> Thanks In Advance
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-09 Thread Avery Wilson 
Another "not directly related answer," but I use campagnolo ergo shifters with 
8 speeds in the back, and a wide-low double up front. Works great. I can shift 
all 8 gears in the back with the front on the 42 tooth, no rubbing or noise, 
and don't even need to trim. 

That said, campy ergo front shifters aren't indexed. They have something like 
12 detants, so there's quite a bit of flexibility for shifting / trimming. 

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-08 Thread David Person 
Not directly related to your question but I'm running a Herse crank with 
44/28 on my Sam and I had to use a Shimano CX-70 derailleur if I wanted to 
set the cage height at the recommended 1-3mm above the large chainring.  I 
tried using a Shimano 105 and could not lower it enough before the bottom 
of the cage hit the chainstay. Would have had to run it with more than the 
recommended gap between the cage and the chainring.  I'm using Dura-Ace 
9-speed bar ends in index mode on the right and it hits all the cogs when 
on the large chainring.  I only use the larger half of the cogs when in the 
small chainring.

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-08 Thread Richard L 
By STI, I'm guessing you mean integrated shifters and brake levers?  If so, 
my dated experience with 9-speed STI and a 46t chain ring was that front 
derailleur shifting was poor and the drive train was plagued with constant 
noise.  After several mechanics could not fix the problem, switching to a 
48t chain ring helped quite a bit. 

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Feedback + Are Sugino Cranks STI Compatible ??

2015-07-08 Thread reynoldslugs 
yes, works fine.  The set up you describe is working well on my Gunnar 
Crosshairs, commuter.  Pics here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157628055130729

Mine is either 24-40 or 26-40. with an 11-34.  I am able to use the full 
cassette on the large (40) chainring, but not quite with the small 
chainring - it gets a little grindy when using the small cogs on the 
cassette.

good luck

Max B

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