Re: [RBW] TCO in general..

2010-02-02 Thread Horace
I think that for people who think TCO is an issue -- it is, and I don't try
to change their minds. But I think if someone is wondering whether it's
going to be an issue for them... it probably isn't.

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Re: [RBW] TCO in general..

2010-02-02 Thread Seth Vidal
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Horace max...@sdf.lonestar.org wrote:
 I think that for people who think TCO is an issue -- it is, and I don't try
 to change their minds. But I think if someone is wondering whether it's
 going to be an issue for them... it probably isn't.


TCO was an issue, once, for me on one bike. Then I decided if I was in
a place where it could happen I had to be going so slowly that I'd
just stop and put a foot down.

It's not like I have clips or clipless pedals anyway so putting a foot
down isn't any extra work. :)
-sv

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Re: [RBW] TCO in general..

2010-02-02 Thread cyclotourist
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Horace max...@sdf.lonestar.org wrote:
  I think that for people who think TCO is an issue -- it is, and I don't
 try
  to change their minds. But I think if someone is wondering whether it's
  going to be an issue for them... it probably isn't.
 

 TCO was an issue, once, for me on one bike. Then I decided if I was in
 a place where it could happen I had to be going so slowly that I'd
 just stop and put a foot down.

 It's not like I have clips or clipless pedals anyway so putting a foot
 down isn't any extra work. :)
 -sv

 --


Grant et al

I was the OP for this conversation, and was wondering about TCO for a
specific reason:  off-road riding an Atlantis with SPD pedals.  When I'm
clicked in, TCO is bad cuz' I'm not the fastest un-clicker-outer.  That's
mainly only a problem on singletrack.  My AR doesn't have it, but it only
fits 42-44mm tires.  I'm looking at bikes that fit full 29ers, of which the
Atlantis is one.

No disparaging remarks about Atlantis were made or intended at all.  That's
a GREAT bike, no matter how much mucus is all over it!  I'm trying to
rationalize buying one

-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym.  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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Re: [RBW] TCO in general..

2010-02-02 Thread PATRICK MOORE
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 8:22 PM, james black chocot...@gmail.com wrote:

  Bicycles should not cause this kind
 of low-grade anxiety. It's unnecessary - if a bike has TCO, the wheels
 are too big. Design it out with smaller wheels!

 Oh, c'mon. TCO tolerance is as personal as saddle likes and pedal choices.
I have no problem adapting to TCO with (1) clips and (2) fenders and (3)
fixed drivetrain. I'd rather have TCO than other compromises, like smaller
wheels -- on the Motobecane -- or poorer handling or weight distribution.

Patrick anxiety? what anxiety? Moore, who automatically thinks about TCO
even with his 559/571 bikes and finds it doesn't bother him in the least.

-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
(505) 227-0523

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[RBW] TCO in general..

2010-02-01 Thread Grant Petersen
Seems to be a problem because it has a name/acronym. All it means is that at
speeds less than about 6mph, if you turn the wheel enough and time it just
wrong with your pedal stroke, your shoe hits the fender or tire. It's one of
those things that sounds worse than it is. It cannot happen at faster
speeds, because you don't turn the wheel that much except if you're doing a
near or full U-turn. When you go around a hairpin at 17 mph, you turn the
front wheel maybe 1.5-degees. It is ONLY at SUPER slow speeds and super
sharp turns that you can make contact.

I want to say this, because it even being a topic of discussion suggests
that there's something wrong. At the risk of being gross or something, it's
sort of like, I have mucus coming out of my face--what can I do? What's
wrong with me? And the answer is blow your nose. But TCO (a term I've
used a hundred times, by the way) is mucus coming out of face in a
different context.

In a bike like the Atlantis, or any fatty tire bike, the designer, at some
point, comes to a fork in the road. He can design for NO TCO and compromise
the elements of design that affect position and fit and ride; or he can
design for P, F, and R and accept some TCO.

Or, just go to a smaller wheel. But even that involves some value
judgements. A 58cm Atlantis with a 26--inch wheel would have a monster-long
head tube that would look funny and make the bike less suitable to load
carrying than the 700C wheel version (with a longer fork and hence shorter
head tube). As it is, the 58 is a really well triangulated frame, and the
bike rides like a demon (my opinion, but I am biased).

TCO ends up being a problem---in my opinion---only in theoretics, but not in
practice. THere are some builders who would disagree; and although in the
spirit of diplomacy and reasonableness and agreeing to disagree and all
that, I accept thatI can't understand it. To fear TCO or to regard it as
Dangerouswell, it's ust something that to me doesn't make any sense.

I'm not saying anybody here fears it. I haven't read all the posts and
prolly won't...I just clicked on this thread for the heck of it, read
something, and now.ahhhshouldn't have said anything! Will regret it
in the morning. Going to bed. Goodnight, Moon.

Best,

G

-- 
Grant
Rivendell Bicycle Works
www.rivbike.com
925 933 7304

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