Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-26 Thread Ryan Ray 
No such thing as living in a vacuum Peter M. What Lance, Clemens, Bonds, etc 
did or didn't do impacted others professionally and  financially. 

Me? I really don't care. What racers do doesn't impact my commute, grocery runs 
or bike camping experiences in the slightest :)

- Ryan

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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-25 Thread Philip Williamson 
I applaud the threadjackers here. 
For my part, the only brakes that have NOT given me grief in the last... 
12.5 years... are the V-brakes on my Bontrager. Disc, single-pivot and 
dual-pivot sidepulls, cantis both high and low -profile have all laid me 
out. the v-brakes are the only ones that just work year in and year out. I 
did also have a center-pull bike that could do nose-stands with 30 year old 
pads, but I gave it away after a month.

Philip
www.biketinker.com 

On Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:21:39 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
> Here's a photo of a 2011 Bombadil I found of Flickr ... this looks good ! 
> http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6009/5948903520_e38ea02c36_z.jpg
>
> Also, make sure your cable cuts are clean and there is no drag in the 
> cable.  With the long arms of these ... from what I have read you should 
> have no problem with power. The lower the straddle cable can be to the 
> tire... the more power it will have. 
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-25 Thread Marc Irwin 
I don't seem to have made my point clear.  During the deliberations, the 
judge in Dallas admonished the USADA for having evidence too weak to be 
heard in a a public prosecution against Armstrong.  His decision was not 
against that, but Armstrong's suit which he dismissed because an 
arbitration system already existed.  I think, in the great scheme of 
things, the whole thing is meaningless.  The USADA should spend their 
resources educating younger athletes and preventing future abuse rather 
than chasing ghosts.

Marc

On Friday, August 24, 2012 10:40:45 AM UTC-4, Marc Irwin wrote:
>
> What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI.  They have 
> protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and 
> the judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge 
> to hear.  Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley 
> Wiggins' mouth.
>
> Marc
>
> On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:37:40 AM UTC-4, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.comwrote:
>>
>> Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or 
>> because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so 
>> tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be 
>> happy until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this, 
>> though. . . 
>>
>> lyle
>>
>> -- 
>> lyle f bogart dpt
>>
>> 156 bradford rd
>> wiscasset, me 04578
>> 207.882.6494
>> 206.794.6937
>>
>>
>> On 24 August 2012 01:47, Jim Cloud  wrote:
>>
>>> Just picked this up from internet traffic:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-france-titles-internet-shock-233032763.html
>>>
>>> Jim Cloud
>>> Tucson, AZ
>>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> lyle f bogart dpt
>>
>> 156 bradford rd
>> wiscasset, me 04578
>> 207.882.6494
>> 206.794.6937
>>
>>  

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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-25 Thread Garth 
Here's a photo of a 2011 Bombadil I found of Flickr ... this looks good ! 
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6009/5948903520_e38ea02c36_z.jpg

Also, make sure your cable cuts are clean and there is no drag in the 
cable.  With the long arms of these ... from what I have read you should 
have no problem with power. The lower the straddle cable can be to the 
tire... the more power it will have. 

>

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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-25 Thread Brewster Fong 


On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:21:14 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> Aaagggh!! 
>
>
> OK, just kidding.  My tandem came with mini-V brakes.  They are not a 
> panacea because they take a lot of cable travel for road levers, so there 
> is very little tolerance for a rim that gets tweaked.  But they do stop 
> well and the cable routing is simple. 
>

For road levers, including Campy ergos, the key is to get a mini-v brake. 
If you really like Paul, they just came out with their mini-motos:

http://www.paulcomp.com/minimoto.html 

I used the cheapie $20 tektro mini-v and it worked well! Prior to using 
mini-vs, I had suntour xc pro canti and it caused massive 
chattering/shuddering from the front fork when braking. It was scary and 
disconcerning. I tried toeing in the pads and that helped a little, but 
soon reverted back to the chatter/shudder. Switching the front out with the 
cheapie tektro mini-v and no more problems!

Now, some say my hanger was too high as it was mounted on top of the 
headset. I suppose I could have tried something like this fork crown cable 
hanger:

http://www.trpbrakes.com/category.php?productid=1096&catid=188 

http://www.specialized.com/ja/en/ftb/components/roadbrakelevers/tricrossforkbrakehanger
 

Anyways, mini-vs work great with Campy ergo levers and were a nice fix for 
my braking problems. Good Luck!


 

>
> BTW, cable routing is why the V-brake was invented.  It was not to improve 
> stopping power but to make suspension bikes easier to build. 
>
> Tim 
>
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: 
>
> > 
> > OK, I'll start another war - forget cantis, Pauls or otherwise!  Get 
> yourself some v-brakes or mini-vs if you're using road levers like Campy 
> ergos. Work way better than cantis with more stopping power and NO brake 
> chatter or shudder. Good Luck! 
> > 
> > On Friday, August 24, 2012 2:44:07 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: 
> > Paul touring, and I can't get Power at the rear brake. 
> > 
> > On Aug 24, 2012 4:52 PM, "Garth"  wrote: 
> > 
> > Peter, what kind of canti's do you have ? 
> > 
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-25 Thread Tom Harrop 
I'm with you Brewster, I just switched from cantis to Vs and I'm never 
going back! All with the stock Shimano pads that came with the V-brakes, 
too. My problems were most likely caused by my inability to set the cantis 
up properly, but the squeal and shudder is gone and I have 100× better 
stopping power. NB this is on a 68 cm Bombadil so the enormous head tube 
could also have been part of the problem.

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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread cyclotourist 
This works for me:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/1679476454/in/set-72157602592825848I
can lock up the front wheel if I put some effort into it.

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:

> Hmm, maybe someone could send over a pic of a good setup?
> On Aug 24, 2012 9:07 PM, "Eric Platt"  wrote:
>
>> I'm with Garth, check your yoke angle.  I've got Paul Touring cantis on
>> one bike and feel they are very strong.  In fact, just as strong as the V
>> brakes on my other bikes.
>>
>> Otherwise, check the angle of the pads and arms.  On long arm cantis, I
>> personally set up the brakes so when the pad hits, the arms and yoke are
>> around 90 degrees.  Pretty sure I starting using that from reading the
>> Sheldon Brown article on canti setup.
>>
>> Eric Platt
>> St. Paul, MN
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Garth  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Is my reply gone ?
>>>
>>> Anyway ... it sounds like your yoke angle is too high .  On a Bombadil,
>>> FWIW .. I wouldn't recommend that style of brake.  Wide profiles work best
>>> on a Bombadil, from trying out various brakes types on mine.
>>>
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**
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Peter Morgano 
Hmm, maybe someone could send over a pic of a good setup?
On Aug 24, 2012 9:07 PM, "Eric Platt"  wrote:

> I'm with Garth, check your yoke angle.  I've got Paul Touring cantis on
> one bike and feel they are very strong.  In fact, just as strong as the V
> brakes on my other bikes.
>
> Otherwise, check the angle of the pads and arms.  On long arm cantis, I
> personally set up the brakes so when the pad hits, the arms and yoke are
> around 90 degrees.  Pretty sure I starting using that from reading the
> Sheldon Brown article on canti setup.
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Garth  wrote:
>
>>
>> Is my reply gone ?
>>
>> Anyway ... it sounds like your yoke angle is too high .  On a Bombadil,
>> FWIW .. I wouldn't recommend that style of brake.  Wide profiles work best
>> on a Bombadil, from trying out various brakes types on mine.
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Platt 
I'm with Garth, check your yoke angle.  I've got Paul Touring cantis on one
bike and feel they are very strong.  In fact, just as strong as the V
brakes on my other bikes.

Otherwise, check the angle of the pads and arms.  On long arm cantis, I
personally set up the brakes so when the pad hits, the arms and yoke are
around 90 degrees.  Pretty sure I starting using that from reading the
Sheldon Brown article on canti setup.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Garth  wrote:

>
> Is my reply gone ?
>
> Anyway ... it sounds like your yoke angle is too high .  On a Bombadil,
> FWIW .. I wouldn't recommend that style of brake.  Wide profiles work best
> on a Bombadil, from trying out various brakes types on mine.
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Tim McNamara 
Aaagggh!!


OK, just kidding.  My tandem came with mini-V brakes.  They are not a panacea 
because they take a lot of cable travel for road levers, so there is very 
little tolerance for a rim that gets tweaked.  But they do stop well and the 
cable routing is simple.

BTW, cable routing is why the V-brake was invented.  It was not to improve 
stopping power but to make suspension bikes easier to build.

Tim



On Aug 24, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Brewster Fong wrote:

> 
> OK, I'll start another war - forget cantis, Pauls or otherwise!  Get yourself 
> some v-brakes or mini-vs if you're using road levers like Campy ergos. Work 
> way better than cantis with more stopping power and NO brake chatter or 
> shudder. Good Luck!
> 
> On Friday, August 24, 2012 2:44:07 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
> Paul touring, and I can't get Power at the rear brake.
> 
> On Aug 24, 2012 4:52 PM, "Garth"  wrote:
> 
> Peter, what kind of canti's do you have ? 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Garth 

Is my reply gone ?   

Anyway ... it sounds like your yoke angle is too high .  On a Bombadil, 
FWIW .. I wouldn't recommend that style of brake.  Wide profiles work best 
on a Bombadil, from trying out various brakes types on mine. 

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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Peter Morgano 
I would but I am attached to my dia comp levers as silly as it sounds. I
just don't like the look of v brake levers,why can't they do a more
classical design? I don't want to use a travel agent or anything like that
either. I guess I could do the mini motos, I only run hetres with 52 velo
orange fenders so they should clear it.
On Aug 24, 2012 6:30 PM, "Brewster Fong"  wrote:

>
> OK, I'll start another war - forget cantis, Pauls or otherwise!  Get
> yourself some v-brakes or mini-vs if you're using road levers like Campy
> ergos. Work way better than cantis with more stopping power and NO brake
> chatter or shudder. Good Luck!
>
> On Friday, August 24, 2012 2:44:07 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>>
>> Paul touring, and I can't get Power at the rear brake.
>> On Aug 24, 2012 4:52 PM, "Garth"  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Peter, what kind of canti's do you have ?
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Brewster Fong 

OK, I'll start another war - forget cantis, Pauls or otherwise!  Get 
yourself some v-brakes or mini-vs if you're using road levers like Campy 
ergos. Work way better than cantis with more stopping power and NO brake 
chatter or shudder. Good Luck!

On Friday, August 24, 2012 2:44:07 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> Paul touring, and I can't get Power at the rear brake. 
> On Aug 24, 2012 4:52 PM, "Garth" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Peter, what kind of canti's do you have ? 
>>
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Peter Morgano 
Paul touring, and I can't get Power at the rear brake.
On Aug 24, 2012 4:52 PM, "Garth"  wrote:

>
> Peter, what kind of canti's do you have ?
>
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Garth 

Peter, what kind of canti's do you have ? 

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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Tom Harrop 
I'm gonna try one of 
these,
 
so I can keep up with the pros.

On Friday, 24 August 2012 19:41:41 UTC+2, Mayfly wrote:
>
> I find my canti adjustment prowess doping enhanced... a ice cold pilsner 
> on a this hot afternoon,.. Ahem, 
>

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RE: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Peter Morgano 
Now that is a enhancer I can get behind.
On Aug 24, 2012 1:41 PM, "Marc Schwartz"  wrote:

> I find my canti adjustment prowess doping enhanced... a ice cold pilsner
> on a this hot afternoon,.. Ahem,
> 
> From: [email protected] [[email protected]]
> on behalf of Peter Morgano [[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 11:20 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles
>
> I would rather discuss the aspects of drying paint than this Lance stuff.
> This has nothing to do with my continued frustration in adjusting the
> cantis on my Bombadil, I think the pads are too toed in.
>
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Tim McNamara  <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> That's not what the judge said according to all the news articles I saw.
>  What I saw reported was that the judge determined that USADA had
> jurisdiction and that the case belonged in that process.  In his opinion
> the court had no reason to intervene- Lance brought it to court trying to
> get the process stopped, the USADA did not file the case in the court.
>
> As a former bike racing fan for some 40 years, I followed the Tour de
> France and a hundred other races every year very closely.  Lance was a star
> rider before his cancer and his comeback to win his first Tour was
> tremendous.  And then he won year after year with famous (and infamous)
> determination and drive.
>
> Then the doping stories came out.  Not about Lance but about the racers he
> defeated at the top of the leader board and the also-rans.  And I started
> wondering how a man could dominate, year after year, a field full of
> dopers.  The obvious answer was that he was doping too and that he was a
> lot better at it than his competitors.  I tried to give him the benefit of
> the doubt and defended him, but the obvious became too obvious.
>
> Doping in pro cycling is a very long tradition dating back since the start
> of the sport.  I think that accounts for the willingness of the UCI and
> race organizers to look the other way.  In Europe, pro cycling is big money
> and money buys closed eyes; a lot of money buys a lot of closed eyes- sort
> of like Congress and lobbyists.  Pro bike racing seems to be about as
> honest as professional wrestling.
>
> So I came to believe that Lance doped.  I watched closely as Floyd Landis
> and Tyler Hamilton and Jan Ullrich and others proclaimed their innocence
> and waged a media battle and sometimes bizarre legal battles.  Now we've
> seen Lance sounding exactly like Floyd and Tyler:  strident and whiny.
>  Lance even pulled out the "unconstitutional" card, claiming that the
> lawfully created American oversight body for sports and doping doesn't have
> the authority to oversee HIM.  Funny that he didn't make that argument when
> it was Floyd and Tyler in the crosshairs.  Lance also forgot the truth that
> "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel," as he invoked the
> Constitution to hide behind.
>
> So what we are left with is a tacit admission of guilt by Lance Amstrong.
>  The strong suspicion must be that he gave up the fight not because it was
> unfair or unconstitutional but because he was going to lose.  By quitting
> now he protects some ambiguity.  Why is this important?  Because Lance was
> paid millions of taxpayer dollars as a professional athlete whose results
> were the result of cheating.  He appears to have perpetrated fraud against
> the American people personally and financially.  This actually is a big
> deal.
>
> It's also got nothing to do with RBW and we probably shouldn't discuss it
> here, come to think of it.  There are plenty of other venues.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Marc Irwin  [email protected]>> wrote:
>
> What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI.  They have
> protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and
> the judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge
> to hear.  Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley
> Wiggins' mouth.
>
> Marc
>
> On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:37:40 AM UTC-4, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com<
> http://gmail.com> wrote:
> Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or
> because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so
> tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be
> happy until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this,
> though. . .
>
> lyle
>
> --
> lyle f boga

RE: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Marc Schwartz 
I find my canti adjustment prowess doping enhanced... a ice cold pilsner on a 
this hot afternoon,.. Ahem,

From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on 
behalf of Peter Morgano [[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

I would rather discuss the aspects of drying paint than this Lance stuff. This 
has nothing to do with my continued frustration in adjusting the cantis on my 
Bombadil, I think the pads are too toed in.

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Tim McNamara 
mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
That's not what the judge said according to all the news articles I saw.  What 
I saw reported was that the judge determined that USADA had jurisdiction and 
that the case belonged in that process.  In his opinion the court had no reason 
to intervene- Lance brought it to court trying to get the process stopped, the 
USADA did not file the case in the court.

As a former bike racing fan for some 40 years, I followed the Tour de France 
and a hundred other races every year very closely.  Lance was a star rider 
before his cancer and his comeback to win his first Tour was tremendous.  And 
then he won year after year with famous (and infamous) determination and drive.

Then the doping stories came out.  Not about Lance but about the racers he 
defeated at the top of the leader board and the also-rans.  And I started 
wondering how a man could dominate, year after year, a field full of dopers.  
The obvious answer was that he was doping too and that he was a lot better at 
it than his competitors.  I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and 
defended him, but the obvious became too obvious.

Doping in pro cycling is a very long tradition dating back since the start of 
the sport.  I think that accounts for the willingness of the UCI and race 
organizers to look the other way.  In Europe, pro cycling is big money and 
money buys closed eyes; a lot of money buys a lot of closed eyes- sort of like 
Congress and lobbyists.  Pro bike racing seems to be about as honest as 
professional wrestling.

So I came to believe that Lance doped.  I watched closely as Floyd Landis and 
Tyler Hamilton and Jan Ullrich and others proclaimed their innocence and waged 
a media battle and sometimes bizarre legal battles.  Now we've seen Lance 
sounding exactly like Floyd and Tyler:  strident and whiny.  Lance even pulled 
out the "unconstitutional" card, claiming that the lawfully created American 
oversight body for sports and doping doesn't have the authority to oversee HIM. 
 Funny that he didn't make that argument when it was Floyd and Tyler in the 
crosshairs.  Lance also forgot the truth that "patriotism is the last refuge of 
a scoundrel," as he invoked the Constitution to hide behind.

So what we are left with is a tacit admission of guilt by Lance Amstrong.  The 
strong suspicion must be that he gave up the fight not because it was unfair or 
unconstitutional but because he was going to lose.  By quitting now he protects 
some ambiguity.  Why is this important?  Because Lance was paid millions of 
taxpayer dollars as a professional athlete whose results were the result of 
cheating.  He appears to have perpetrated fraud against the American people 
personally and financially.  This actually is a big deal.

It's also got nothing to do with RBW and we probably shouldn't discuss it here, 
come to think of it.  There are plenty of other venues.

Tim


On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Marc Irwin 
mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI.  They have 
protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and the 
judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge to hear. 
 Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley Wiggins' 
mouth.

Marc

On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:37:40 AM UTC-4, 
LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com<http://gmail.com> wrote:
Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or 
because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so tested 
the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be happy until 
they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this, though. . .

lyle

--
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd
wiscasset, me 04578
207.882.6494
206.794.6937


On 24 August 2012 01:47, Jim Cloud  wrote:
Just picked this up from internet traffic:

http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-france-titles-internet-shock-233032763.html

Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

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To unsubscribe from thi

Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Peter Morgano 
I would rather discuss the aspects of drying paint than this Lance stuff.
This has nothing to do with my continued frustration in adjusting the
cantis on my Bombadil, I think the pads are too toed in.

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Tim McNamara  wrote:

> That's not what the judge said according to all the news articles I saw.
>  What I saw reported was that the judge determined that USADA had
> jurisdiction and that the case belonged in that process.  In his opinion
> the court had no reason to intervene- Lance brought it to court trying to
> get the process stopped, the USADA did not file the case in the court.
>
> As a former bike racing fan for some 40 years, I followed the Tour de
> France and a hundred other races every year very closely.  Lance was a star
> rider before his cancer and his comeback to win his first Tour was
> tremendous.  And then he won year after year with famous (and infamous)
> determination and drive.
>
> Then the doping stories came out.  Not about Lance but about the racers he
> defeated at the top of the leader board and the also-rans.  And I started
> wondering how a man could dominate, year after year, a field full of
> dopers.  The obvious answer was that he was doping too and that he was a
> lot better at it than his competitors.  I tried to give him the benefit of
> the doubt and defended him, but the obvious became too obvious.
>
> Doping in pro cycling is a very long tradition dating back since the start
> of the sport.  I think that accounts for the willingness of the UCI and
> race organizers to look the other way.  In Europe, pro cycling is big money
> and money buys closed eyes; a lot of money buys a lot of closed eyes- sort
> of like Congress and lobbyists.  Pro bike racing seems to be about as
> honest as professional wrestling.
>
> So I came to believe that Lance doped.  I watched closely as Floyd Landis
> and Tyler Hamilton and Jan Ullrich and others proclaimed their innocence
> and waged a media battle and sometimes bizarre legal battles.  Now we've
> seen Lance sounding exactly like Floyd and Tyler:  strident and whiny.
>  Lance even pulled out the "unconstitutional" card, claiming that the
> lawfully created American oversight body for sports and doping doesn't have
> the authority to oversee HIM.  Funny that he didn't make that argument when
> it was Floyd and Tyler in the crosshairs.  Lance also forgot the truth that
> "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel," as he invoked the
> Constitution to hide behind.
>
> So what we are left with is a tacit admission of guilt by Lance Amstrong.
>  The strong suspicion must be that he gave up the fight not because it was
> unfair or unconstitutional but because he was going to lose.  By quitting
> now he protects some ambiguity.  Why is this important?  Because Lance was
> paid millions of taxpayer dollars as a professional athlete whose results
> were the result of cheating.  He appears to have perpetrated fraud against
> the American people personally and financially.  This actually is a big
> deal.
>
> It's also got nothing to do with RBW and we probably shouldn't discuss it
> here, come to think of it.  There are plenty of other venues.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Marc Irwin  wrote:
>
> What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI.  They have
> protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and
> the judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge
> to hear.  Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley
> Wiggins' mouth.
>
> Marc
>
> On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:37:40 AM UTC-4, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.comwrote:
>>
>> Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or
>> because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so
>> tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be
>> happy until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this,
>> though. . .
>>
>> lyle
>>
>> --
>> lyle f bogart dpt
>>
>> 156 bradford rd
>> wiscasset, me 04578
>> 207.882.6494
>> 206.794.6937
>>
>>
>> On 24 August 2012 01:47, Jim Cloud  wrote:
>>
>>> Just picked this up from internet traffic:
>>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/lance-**armstrong-stripped-tour-**
>>> france-titles-internet-shock-**233032763.html
>>>
>>> Jim Cloud
>>> Tucson, AZ
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.**com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@**
>>> googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**
>>> group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> lyle f bogart dpt
>>
>> 156 bradford rd
>> wiscasset, me 04578
>> 207.882.

Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Tim McNamara 
That's not what the judge said according to all the news articles I saw.  What 
I saw reported was that the judge determined that USADA had jurisdiction and 
that the case belonged in that process.  In his opinion the court had no reason 
to intervene- Lance brought it to court trying to get the process stopped, the 
USADA did not file the case in the court.

As a former bike racing fan for some 40 years, I followed the Tour de France 
and a hundred other races every year very closely.  Lance was a star rider 
before his cancer and his comeback to win his first Tour was tremendous.  And 
then he won year after year with famous (and infamous) determination and drive.

Then the doping stories came out.  Not about Lance but about the racers he 
defeated at the top of the leader board and the also-rans.  And I started 
wondering how a man could dominate, year after year, a field full of dopers.  
The obvious answer was that he was doping too and that he was a lot better at 
it than his competitors.  I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and 
defended him, but the obvious became too obvious.

Doping in pro cycling is a very long tradition dating back since the start of 
the sport.  I think that accounts for the willingness of the UCI and race 
organizers to look the other way.  In Europe, pro cycling is big money and 
money buys closed eyes; a lot of money buys a lot of closed eyes- sort of like 
Congress and lobbyists.  Pro bike racing seems to be about as honest as 
professional wrestling.

So I came to believe that Lance doped.  I watched closely as Floyd Landis and 
Tyler Hamilton and Jan Ullrich and others proclaimed their innocence and waged 
a media battle and sometimes bizarre legal battles.  Now we've seen Lance 
sounding exactly like Floyd and Tyler:  strident and whiny.  Lance even pulled 
out the "unconstitutional" card, claiming that the lawfully created American 
oversight body for sports and doping doesn't have the authority to oversee HIM. 
 Funny that he didn't make that argument when it was Floyd and Tyler in the 
crosshairs.  Lance also forgot the truth that "patriotism is the last refuge of 
a scoundrel," as he invoked the Constitution to hide behind.

So what we are left with is a tacit admission of guilt by Lance Amstrong.  The 
strong suspicion must be that he gave up the fight not because it was unfair or 
unconstitutional but because he was going to lose.  By quitting now he protects 
some ambiguity.  Why is this important?  Because Lance was paid millions of 
taxpayer dollars as a professional athlete whose results were the result of 
cheating.  He appears to have perpetrated fraud against the American people 
personally and financially.  This actually is a big deal.

It's also got nothing to do with RBW and we probably shouldn't discuss it here, 
come to think of it.  There are plenty of other venues.

Tim


On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Marc Irwin  wrote:

> What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI.  They have 
> protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and the 
> judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge to 
> hear.  Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley 
> Wiggins' mouth.
> 
> Marc
> 
> On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:37:40 AM UTC-4, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com wrote:
> Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or 
> because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so 
> tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be happy 
> until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this, though. . . 
> 
> lyle
> 
> -- 
> lyle f bogart dpt
> 
> 156 bradford rd
> wiscasset, me 04578
> 207.882.6494
> 206.794.6937
> 
> 
> On 24 August 2012 01:47, Jim Cloud  wrote:
> Just picked this up from internet traffic:
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-france-titles-internet-shock-233032763.html
> 
> Jim Cloud
> Tucson, AZ
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> lyle f bogart dpt
> 
> 156 bradford rd
> wiscasset, me 04578
> 207.882.6494
> 206.794.6937
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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You received this

Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Peter Morgano 
Another huge waste of our tax dollars. The same with the Clemens trial. I I
could really give a damn, we live in a free country, if you want to abuse
your body be my guest.
On Aug 24, 2012 10:40 AM, "Marc Irwin"  wrote:

> What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI.  They have
> protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and
> the judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge
> to hear.  Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley
> Wiggins' mouth.
>
> Marc
>
> On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:37:40 AM UTC-4, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.comwrote:
>>
>> Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or
>> because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so
>> tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be
>> happy until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this,
>> though. . .
>>
>> lyle
>>
>> --
>> lyle f bogart dpt
>>
>> 156 bradford rd
>> wiscasset, me 04578
>> 207.882.6494
>> 206.794.6937
>>
>>
>> On 24 August 2012 01:47, Jim Cloud  wrote:
>>
>>> Just picked this up from internet traffic:
>>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/lance-**armstrong-stripped-tour-**
>>> france-titles-internet-shock-**233032763.html
>>>
>>> Jim Cloud
>>> Tucson, AZ
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.**com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@**
>>> googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**
>>> group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> lyle f bogart dpt
>>
>> 156 bradford rd
>> wiscasset, me 04578
>> 207.882.6494
>> 206.794.6937
>>
>>   --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Marc Irwin 
What is also inevitable is a protest and appeal by the UCI.  They have 
protested the jurisdiction of the USADA since the case was introduced and 
the judge in Dallas told the USADA they didn't have a case worthy of judge 
to hear.  Oh well, it seems the races are "cleaner" now, except for Bradley 
Wiggins' mouth.

Marc

On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:37:40 AM UTC-4, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com wrote:
>
> Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or 
> because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so 
> tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be 
> happy until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this, 
> though. . . 
>
> lyle
>
> -- 
> lyle f bogart dpt
>
> 156 bradford rd
> wiscasset, me 04578
> 207.882.6494
> 206.794.6937
>
>
> On 24 August 2012 01:47, Jim Cloud > wrote:
>
>> Just picked this up from internet traffic:
>>
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-france-titles-internet-shock-233032763.html
>>
>> Jim Cloud
>> Tucson, AZ
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to 
>> [email protected]
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> [email protected] .
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> lyle f bogart dpt
>
> 156 bradford rd
> wiscasset, me 04578
> 207.882.6494
> 206.794.6937
>
>  

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Re: [RBW] Lance Armstrong Stripped of Tour de France Titles

2012-08-24 Thread Lyle Bogart 
Seems inevitable, really, either because Lance *is* guilty of doping or
because, by consistently beating others shown to have been doping, he so
tested the objectivity of the testing agencies that they could never be
happy until they convicted him. I doubt we've heard the last of this,
though. . .

lyle

-- 
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd
wiscasset, me 04578
207.882.6494
206.794.6937


On 24 August 2012 01:47, Jim Cloud  wrote:

> Just picked this up from internet traffic:
>
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-france-titles-internet-shock-233032763.html
>
> Jim Cloud
> Tucson, AZ
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd
wiscasset, me 04578
207.882.6494
206.794.6937

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