Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-23 Thread John Bokman 
Quite the collection, Richard!  I'm confident I'm not the only one who 
would like to see more photos of those gorgeous bikes.

John


On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 5:15:47 AM UTC-7 Richard Borneman wrote:

> First Generation Sam. The bike I ride most of the time.
> [image: IMG_4701.jpeg]
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 8:04:24 AM UTC-4 Richard Borneman wrote:
>
>> [image: Roadini.JPG][image: IMG_4703.JPG][image: IMG_4702.JPG]
>> Here are a few photos of my bikes. Top is a current Roadini with the 
>> super low mount. A Toyo Atlantis and Ram are the other two. Never had any 
>> trouble getting a bottle out of the ST cage. Regular or tall ones. I was 
>> looking down at my knees while riding my Sam yesterday. Had at least 1 1/2" 
>> clearance. The low mounted cage seems like a dumb idea to me.
>> It's like an answer to a question nobody ever asked.
>> Richard
>> On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 6:42:50 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> My first reply was in regard to the preferred placement of the DT bottle 
>>> mounts as I don't use the seat tube mount for riding access, just carrying. 
>>> I'm tall also and yes, my knees can at times brush a tall bottle. I 
>>> resorted to using a standard bottle at one time, then just went to the 
>>> bottom DT mount all the time instead, relegating the ST mount for a small 
>>> narrow bag that fits in a bottle cage.  As I mentioned, Wolftooth makes 
>>> B-RAD adapters that you can move a cage up or down. If you really wanted to 
>>> move the bottles use two and rearrange to your liking. Made of aluminum. 
>>>
>>> https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/b-rad-bottle-relocation-and-accessory-device?variant=27315032837
>>>
>>> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0230/9291/files/INSTRUCTIONS_BASE_2.pdf?219
>>>
>>> I suspect most Riv frames with the megastays can take a large mounted 
>>> bottle behind the ST, even with fenders. Even a pump of course. Even my 
>>> Franklin with 18" chainstays I carry a full Topeak Road Morph behind the 
>>> ST. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 3:47:04 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 "if for some reason Bill abandoned RWB Owners bunch"

 LOL.  I'm leaving feet first.  Bet on that.  

 TRIVIA Question:  If you know the answer, keep it to yourself for a 
 little bit.  If you don't know, go look it up.  It probably will surprise 
 you.  

 Q:  Water bottle bolts on "all" bicycles are the same spacing.  Any 
 water bottle cage will fit on any frame with bolts.  Who invented that 
 bolt 
 spacing?  

 BL in EC
 On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 11:30:16 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> I like Jay's characterization of Bill's style as Socratic...very apt
>
> I used to think Bill could be a bit abrasive as well, but his depth of 
> technical knowledge is matched by his impressive stable of bikes that he 
> actually ridesand I know he did and maybe still does do such pro-bono 
> things as coach mountain-bike racing. I was also impressed that he 
> graciously and publicly admitted that he can come across as somewhat  
> harsh. That being said, if for some reason Bill abandoned RWB Owners 
> bunch, 
> I think our community would be the poorer for it. I for one would miss 
> his 
> insightful posts and dry wit.
>
> Ryan in Winnipeg, MB
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 1:10:08 PM UTC-5 ericf3 wrote:
>
>> Completely with Jay 
>>
>> EricF
>>
>> On Sun, 22 Sept 2024 at 10:51, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, 
>>>
>>> I appreciate your online persona and believe (perhaps naively) that 
>>> I discern an almost Socratic intent behind some of your more pointed 
>>> commentary. We’re all works in progress of course, but for what it’s 
>>> worth 
>>> I wouldn’t put too much effort into accommodating the sensibilities of 
>>> internet randos. (As an internet rando myself I recognize the 
>>> contradiction 
>>> inherent in that statement, but I’ll follow my own advice and not worry 
>>> about it.)
>>>
>>> Torn on whether it’d be preferable to send this to you privately, 
>>> but I figure a public callout merits a public response.
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-22 Thread Garth 
My first reply was in regard to the preferred placement of the DT bottle 
mounts as I don't use the seat tube mount for riding access, just carrying. 
I'm tall also and yes, my knees can at times brush a tall bottle. I 
resorted to using a standard bottle at one time, then just went to the 
bottom DT mount all the time instead, relegating the ST mount for a small 
narrow bag that fits in a bottle cage.  As I mentioned, Wolftooth makes 
B-RAD adapters that you can move a cage up or down. If you really wanted to 
move the bottles use two and rearrange to your liking. Made of aluminum. 
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/b-rad-bottle-relocation-and-accessory-device?variant=27315032837
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0230/9291/files/INSTRUCTIONS_BASE_2.pdf?219

I suspect most Riv frames with the megastays can take a large mounted 
bottle behind the ST, even with fenders. Even a pump of course. Even my 
Franklin with 18" chainstays I carry a full Topeak Road Morph behind the 
ST. 

On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 3:47:04 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> "if for some reason Bill abandoned RWB Owners bunch"
>
> LOL.  I'm leaving feet first.  Bet on that.  
>
> TRIVIA Question:  If you know the answer, keep it to yourself for a little 
> bit.  If you don't know, go look it up.  It probably will surprise you.  
>
> Q:  Water bottle bolts on "all" bicycles are the same spacing.  Any water 
> bottle cage will fit on any frame with bolts.  Who invented that bolt 
> spacing?  
>
> BL in EC
> On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 11:30:16 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>
>> I like Jay's characterization of Bill's style as Socratic...very apt
>>
>> I used to think Bill could be a bit abrasive as well, but his depth of 
>> technical knowledge is matched by his impressive stable of bikes that he 
>> actually ridesand I know he did and maybe still does do such pro-bono 
>> things as coach mountain-bike racing. I was also impressed that he 
>> graciously and publicly admitted that he can come across as somewhat  
>> harsh. That being said, if for some reason Bill abandoned RWB Owners bunch, 
>> I think our community would be the poorer for it. I for one would miss his 
>> insightful posts and dry wit.
>>
>> Ryan in Winnipeg, MB
>>
>> On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 1:10:08 PM UTC-5 ericf3 wrote:
>>
>>> Completely with Jay 
>>>
>>> EricF
>>>
>>> On Sun, 22 Sept 2024 at 10:51, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>>
 Bill, 

 I appreciate your online persona and believe (perhaps naively) that I 
 discern an almost Socratic intent behind some of your more pointed 
 commentary. We’re all works in progress of course, but for what it’s worth 
 I wouldn’t put too much effort into accommodating the sensibilities of 
 internet randos. (As an internet rando myself I recognize the 
 contradiction 
 inherent in that statement, but I’ll follow my own advice and not worry 
 about it.)

 Torn on whether it’d be preferable to send this to you privately, but I 
 figure a public callout merits a public response.

 Jay Lonner
 Bellingham, WA




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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-22 Thread Bill Lindsay 
"if for some reason Bill abandoned RWB Owners bunch"

LOL.  I'm leaving feet first.  Bet on that.  

TRIVIA Question:  If you know the answer, keep it to yourself for a little 
bit.  If you don't know, go look it up.  It probably will surprise you.  

Q:  Water bottle bolts on "all" bicycles are the same spacing.  Any water 
bottle cage will fit on any frame with bolts.  Who invented that bolt 
spacing?  

BL in EC
On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 11:30:16 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> I like Jay's characterization of Bill's style as Socratic...very apt
>
> I used to think Bill could be a bit abrasive as well, but his depth of 
> technical knowledge is matched by his impressive stable of bikes that he 
> actually ridesand I know he did and maybe still does do such pro-bono 
> things as coach mountain-bike racing. I was also impressed that he 
> graciously and publicly admitted that he can come across as somewhat  
> harsh. That being said, if for some reason Bill abandoned RWB Owners bunch, 
> I think our community would be the poorer for it. I for one would miss his 
> insightful posts and dry wit.
>
> Ryan in Winnipeg, MB
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 1:10:08 PM UTC-5 ericf3 wrote:
>
>> Completely with Jay 
>>
>> EricF
>>
>> On Sun, 22 Sept 2024 at 10:51, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, 
>>>
>>> I appreciate your online persona and believe (perhaps naively) that I 
>>> discern an almost Socratic intent behind some of your more pointed 
>>> commentary. We’re all works in progress of course, but for what it’s worth 
>>> I wouldn’t put too much effort into accommodating the sensibilities of 
>>> internet randos. (As an internet rando myself I recognize the contradiction 
>>> inherent in that statement, but I’ll follow my own advice and not worry 
>>> about it.)
>>>
>>> Torn on whether it’d be preferable to send this to you privately, but I 
>>> figure a public callout merits a public response.
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-22 Thread Ryan 
I like Jay's characterization of Bill's style as Socratic...very apt

I used to think Bill could be a bit abrasive as well, but his depth of 
technical knowledge is matched by his impressive stable of bikes that he 
actually ridesand I know he did and maybe still does do such pro-bono 
things as coach mountain-bike racing. I was also impressed that he 
graciously and publicly admitted that he can come across as somewhat  
harsh. That being said, if for some reason Bill abandoned RWB Owners bunch, 
I think our community would be the poorer for it. I for one would miss his 
insightful posts and dry wit.

Ryan in Winnipeg, MB

On Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 1:10:08 PM UTC-5 ericf3 wrote:

> Completely with Jay 
>
> EricF
>
> On Sun, 22 Sept 2024 at 10:51, Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
>> Bill, 
>>
>> I appreciate your online persona and believe (perhaps naively) that I 
>> discern an almost Socratic intent behind some of your more pointed 
>> commentary. We’re all works in progress of course, but for what it’s worth 
>> I wouldn’t put too much effort into accommodating the sensibilities of 
>> internet randos. (As an internet rando myself I recognize the contradiction 
>> inherent in that statement, but I’ll follow my own advice and not worry 
>> about it.)
>>
>> Torn on whether it’d be preferable to send this to you privately, but I 
>> figure a public callout merits a public response.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-22 Thread Eric Floden 
Completely with Jay

EricF

On Sun, 22 Sept 2024 at 10:51, Jay Lonner  wrote:

> Bill,
>
> I appreciate your online persona and believe (perhaps naively) that I
> discern an almost Socratic intent behind some of your more pointed
> commentary. We’re all works in progress of course, but for what it’s worth
> I wouldn’t put too much effort into accommodating the sensibilities of
> internet randos. (As an internet rando myself I recognize the contradiction
> inherent in that statement, but I’ll follow my own advice and not worry
> about it.)
>
> Torn on whether it’d be preferable to send this to you privately, but I
> figure a public callout merits a public response.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-22 Thread Jay Lonner 
Bill, I appreciate your online persona and believe (perhaps naively) that I discern an almost Socratic intent behind some of your more pointed commentary. We’re all works in progress of course, but for what it’s worth I wouldn’t put too much effort into accommodating the sensibilities of internet randos. (As an internet rando myself I recognize the contradiction inherent in that statement, but I’ll follow my own advice and not worry about it.)Torn on whether it’d be preferable to send this to you privately, but I figure a public callout merits a public response.Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Sep 22, 2024, at 6:14 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:MichaelThat's perfectly fair and I'll own it.  Thanks for saying it so succinctly.  Last week I met a lister down at Fieldwork Brewery in Berkeley to sell them a part, and over a couple pints this lister and I had a long discussion of this and that.  One of the topics was me being a dick on lists.  It's kind of complicated.  I will say you aren't wrong, and I'm not particularly proud of it.  I work on it and I think I'm reasonably nice in person.  tl/dr but back on-topic of water bottlesMy multiple choice about the seat tube use case was sincere, and at least one responder here said they are indeed "choice A" and only run the seat tube bottle, which is fascinating to me.  Stepping back, I applaud anybody dwelling on a small bike detail and asking "why do they do this little thing this way?"  When I posted my smart aleck multiple choice I assumed (without knowing for sure) that maybe half the bikes in my garage would have this low-slung straddling seat tube bottle placement.  In between smart aleck posts I went and did an inventory in my garage.  There are 8 single bikes that have both a front derailer and seat tube bottle bolts.  Only ONE of the 8 have the bolts straddling the FD, and that's my RoadUno, which I found pretty funny to me for a few reasons.  I used a King Cage, and so it didn't interfere with the FD and didn't require washers.  The other 7 have them up high, and I contemplated for a while...and I agree with you: up high looks better.  I admit that I don't have a clue why Grant (or Will) spec'd them low on the RoadUno.  It's a funny looking machine for a ton of reasons, so the funny looking bottle placement is lost in the noise of being funny looking.  Regardless, this topic showed me I don't know anything about bottle placement in frame design and the world would have continued on its axis had I not responded at all on this thread and just read posts and tried to learn something for a change.  If I had a Time Machine, I'd go back and do that.  BillOn Saturday, September 21, 2024 at 6:39:51 PM UTC-7 Michael Baquerizo wrote:Bill - your stable of bikes, Rivendell or otherwise is pretty enviable. Your personality, (the internet one, at least) less so.On Saturday, September 21, 2024 at 1:32:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:That does reduce my confusion.  I was focused on your suspicion that down-low was so obviously a design flaw, and failed to absorb your certainty that your suspicion was wrong.  Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CAOn Saturday, September 21, 2024 at 10:11:38 AM UTC-7 Michael Baquerizo wrote:Hey Bill -If you read my original post I make it clear that despite my understanding of the situation i concede that am most likely wrong, but my question had nothing to do with the bottle being more 'easily accessible', just about its positioning aesthetically and perhaps even functionally, as if it straddles the FD clamp it requires one more thing to mount (washers to raise ) So it's kind of an inaccurate recounting to say that 'The OP believes there is an obvious design flaw'Perhaps you're conflating lower on the frame with 'more easily accessible' and i'm not CERTAIN that's the case. surely too close to the top tube and the bottle would be impossible to get, but there's a middle ground between as low as possible and the aforementioned 'too close to the seat tube'. To ME, that middle ground seems like it'd be easier to access, as it's closer to ones reach than lower would be. A lot of the accounts from bike owners and bike viewers seem to suggest similar confusion about why sometimes it's above the clamp area, sometimes it's below. your own account suggests that it might as well be ABOVE the derailleur clamp area, as it isn't a drinking water position, it's a stored water position. Therefore, more easily accessible (which i conflate with being closer to ones reach) i prefer the suggestions that weight lower on the frame is ideal (not actually sure if its true but it seems to make physical sense) and also the allowance for frame bags (in this day and age especially, less so when the hillborne that i'm referencing was originally created) AND the idea that your legs thin out the closer they get to the ankle.I hope that helps with some of your confusion. On Saturday, September 21, 2024 at 12:00:38 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:The OP believes there is an ob

Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-21 Thread Michael Baquerizo 
Steven - I suspect that just comes down to reflex, which bottle actually 
has water in it, and obviously, preference. I wouldn't expect there to be 
any other way to measure that reality.

Your bike does sort of suggest what I thought makes more sense (but could 
be totally wrong about, again, for the record) that higher makes more 
functional and aesthetic sense. Bottles seem to exist on similar levels, 
and the seat tube bottle is really nowhere near your derailleur clamp 
(albeit yours is pretty low due to your teeny big ring)



On Saturday, September 21, 2024 at 1:04:13 PM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> I never realized I was doing it so differently. I drink out of my seat 
> tube mounted bottle and when its empty I refill it with a stainless bottle 
> that is on my downtube. To me it seems much easier to access the bottle on 
> the seat tube. Here is a pic. 
>
>
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2024 at 6:00 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> The OP believes there is an obvious design flaw that the seat tube water 
>> bottle isn't more easily accessible on lots of bikes.  
>>
>> This confuses me. To those who need/want a higher mounted seat tube water 
>> bottle on their bikes: what exactly is the use case?  
>>
>> a. I run ONLY a seat tube water bottle for some really good reason, and I 
>> therefor it should be super accessible, because it's my only source of 
>> ride-hydration
>> b. I run two different drinks and have to have easy access at BOTH to 
>> manage my hydration strategy
>> c. I always drink from the seat tube bottle FIRST for some really good 
>> reason, and use the down tube bottle as the back up, so the seat tube 
>> bottle needs to be super accessible 
>> d. some other use case
>>
>> For me, and I assumed for most other cyclists, the seat tube bottle is 
>> not for drinking.  The down tube bottle is for drinking.  When the down 
>> tube bottle is empty, then I move the seat tube bottle to the down tube, 
>> and THEN that bottle is for drinking.  In other words, it's a STORAGE 
>> location, not an ACCESSIBILITY location, for my use-case.  When I grab for 
>> a bottle, 19 out of 20 times it's the down tube bottle.  I only grab the 
>> seat tube bottle when it's time to swap.  For storage, I prefer efficiency, 
>> and down the seat tube gets it out of the way and that makes sense to me.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 7:00:58 AM UTC-7 Michael Baquerizo wrote:
>>
>>> i'm ready for the answer to be so obvious that I assume this is a dumb 
>>> question. 
>>>
>>> So often, on many bike frame, but also on Riv's - the bottle bosses on 
>>> the seat tube straddle where the derailleur clamp would go. 
>>>
>>> however, almost AS often as I see this, I also see plenty of real estate 
>>> for them to exist ABOVE said clamp area, where they'd no doubt be more 
>>> easily accessed by a rider.
>>>
>>> why? it seems so obviously a design flaw, but surely I'M the one in the 
>>> wrong.
>>>
>> -- 
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-21 Thread Mark V 
I am thinking the ST bosses are low so they are always the same distance 
from the BB. That way bottle bosses can be brazed in before the frame is 
built. And there's no need to "worry" how long the ST will be. 
I skimmed through the most recent  Taiwan factory bike build photos to see 
if the bosses are NOT there after frame is fitted together.  It looked like 
to me the bosses were always present, so the bosses were brazed in before 
frame assembly. 
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/77810024_791d774b-0d9e-4b91-8cfb-5be6b97b59e7_1000x.jpg?v=1726785548

two cents worth from the internets - so you know what it's really worth

mark v. 
RoadUno Rider (well, not at the moment i'm typing on a computer... but 
you get what i mean)


On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 6:49:20 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> As a test I took one of those problem solver water bottle mounts that I 
> remembered I had for my wife's bike and mounted it higher up on my Clem and 
> my legs 100% kept hitting the water bottle. It didn't work for me. There 
> might be some sweet spot between the lower position and the higher place I 
> put it but that's more experimenting than I was prepared to do. :)
>
> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 6:30:12 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> I have one bike with the low seat tube bottle mount, and one that is 
>> mounted higher, clearing the FD altogether. They gotta go somewhere, and ST 
>> mount effects where the DT mount is, on a regular diamond frame. You can't 
>> have them both down low or they'll get in each others way. So one has to be 
>> higher than the other. The Bombadil places the DT bottle mount up higher 
>> than on my Franklin that allows for a lower DT mount. The original Clem had 
>> it high ST mount, low DT mount, like my Franklin. 
>>
>> I can't say I really care either way, I only notice it when I change 
>> bikes. If one really wants to change them around Wolftooth sells the B-Rad 
>> mounts. I believe on the Bombadil I used an old valve nut as a washer on 
>> the bottom hole on a particular bottle cage that sat very flush and needed 
>> just a bit of extra clearance. 
>>
>> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 2:31:45 PM UTC-4 Brian Turner wrote:
>>
>>> I still think it would’ve been neat to include some cargo bosses behind 
>>> the seat tube on some of the longer chainstays models like Gus, Joe, and 
>>> Clem. There’s so much space back there, I had a custom frame bag made to 
>>> fit back there. It holds a lot, too!
>>>
>>> Brian
>>> Lex KY 
>>>
>>> On Sep 20, 2024, at 1:29 PM, Greg J  wrote:
>>>
>>> There's also an aesthetic consideration - I read somewhere that the 
>>> custom builder (not sure if it was Riv) took care to make sure the bottles 
>>> on the seat tube and the down tube were on the same horizontal line.
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:16:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 Low bosses also allow more room for a frame bag above them, though the 
 bosses have been low longer than frame bags have been a thing, so I'm 
 thinking that keeping the weight low is the original reason.

 Eric

 On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 10:17 AM Ginz  wrote:

>   My guess is that they want to you have space for the largest bottle 
> possible and to keep the weight as low as possible.
>
> My bikes are small and they ALWAYS collide with the front der.  When I 
> hade a custom made, I did a braze-on front der.  1x drivetrains have 
> helped, too
>
>
> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:00:58 AM UTC-4 Michael Baquerizo 
> wrote:
>
>> i'm ready for the answer to be so obvious that I assume this is a 
>> dumb question. 
>>
>> So often, on many bike frame, but also on Riv's - the bottle bosses 
>> on the seat tube straddle where the derailleur clamp would go. 
>>
>> however, almost AS often as I see this, I also see plenty of real 
>> estate for them to exist ABOVE said clamp area, where they'd no doubt be 
>> more easily accessed by a rider.
>>
>> why? it seems so obviously a design flaw, but surely I'M the one in 
>> the wrong.
>>
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> 
> .
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-20 Thread Johnny Alien 
As a test I took one of those problem solver water bottle mounts that I 
remembered I had for my wife's bike and mounted it higher up on my Clem and 
my legs 100% kept hitting the water bottle. It didn't work for me. There 
might be some sweet spot between the lower position and the higher place I 
put it but that's more experimenting than I was prepared to do. :)

On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 6:30:12 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> I have one bike with the low seat tube bottle mount, and one that is 
> mounted higher, clearing the FD altogether. They gotta go somewhere, and ST 
> mount effects where the DT mount is, on a regular diamond frame. You can't 
> have them both down low or they'll get in each others way. So one has to be 
> higher than the other. The Bombadil places the DT bottle mount up higher 
> than on my Franklin that allows for a lower DT mount. The original Clem had 
> it high ST mount, low DT mount, like my Franklin. 
>
> I can't say I really care either way, I only notice it when I change 
> bikes. If one really wants to change them around Wolftooth sells the B-Rad 
> mounts. I believe on the Bombadil I used an old valve nut as a washer on 
> the bottom hole on a particular bottle cage that sat very flush and needed 
> just a bit of extra clearance. 
>
> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 2:31:45 PM UTC-4 Brian Turner wrote:
>
>> I still think it would’ve been neat to include some cargo bosses behind 
>> the seat tube on some of the longer chainstays models like Gus, Joe, and 
>> Clem. There’s so much space back there, I had a custom frame bag made to 
>> fit back there. It holds a lot, too!
>>
>> Brian
>> Lex KY 
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2024, at 1:29 PM, Greg J  wrote:
>>
>> There's also an aesthetic consideration - I read somewhere that the 
>> custom builder (not sure if it was Riv) took care to make sure the bottles 
>> on the seat tube and the down tube were on the same horizontal line.
>>
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:16:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> Low bosses also allow more room for a frame bag above them, though the 
>>> bosses have been low longer than frame bags have been a thing, so I'm 
>>> thinking that keeping the weight low is the original reason.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 10:17 AM Ginz  wrote:
>>>
   My guess is that they want to you have space for the largest bottle 
 possible and to keep the weight as low as possible.

 My bikes are small and they ALWAYS collide with the front der.  When I 
 hade a custom made, I did a braze-on front der.  1x drivetrains have 
 helped, too


 On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:00:58 AM UTC-4 Michael Baquerizo 
 wrote:

> i'm ready for the answer to be so obvious that I assume this is a dumb 
> question. 
>
> So often, on many bike frame, but also on Riv's - the bottle bosses on 
> the seat tube straddle where the derailleur clamp would go. 
>
> however, almost AS often as I see this, I also see plenty of real 
> estate for them to exist ABOVE said clamp area, where they'd no doubt be 
> more easily accessed by a rider.
>
> why? it seems so obviously a design flaw, but surely I'M the one in 
> the wrong.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-20 Thread Garth 
I have one bike with the low seat tube bottle mount, and one that is 
mounted higher, clearing the FD altogether. They gotta go somewhere, and ST 
mount effects where the DT mount is, on a regular diamond frame. You can't 
have them both down low or they'll get in each others way. So one has to be 
higher than the other. The Bombadil places the DT bottle mount up higher 
than on my Franklin that allows for a lower DT mount. The original Clem had 
it high ST mount, low DT mount, like my Franklin. 

I can't say I really care either way, I only notice it when I change bikes. 
If one really wants to change them around Wolftooth sells the B-Rad mounts. 
I believe on the Bombadil I used an old valve nut as a washer on the bottom 
hole on a particular bottle cage that sat very flush and needed just a bit 
of extra clearance. 

On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 2:31:45 PM UTC-4 Brian Turner wrote:

> I still think it would’ve been neat to include some cargo bosses behind 
> the seat tube on some of the longer chainstays models like Gus, Joe, and 
> Clem. There’s so much space back there, I had a custom frame bag made to 
> fit back there. It holds a lot, too!
>
> Brian
> Lex KY 
>
> On Sep 20, 2024, at 1:29 PM, Greg J  wrote:
>
> There's also an aesthetic consideration - I read somewhere that the 
> custom builder (not sure if it was Riv) took care to make sure the bottles 
> on the seat tube and the down tube were on the same horizontal line.
>
>
> Greg
>
> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:16:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> Low bosses also allow more room for a frame bag above them, though the 
>> bosses have been low longer than frame bags have been a thing, so I'm 
>> thinking that keeping the weight low is the original reason.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 10:17 AM Ginz  wrote:
>>
>>>   My guess is that they want to you have space for the largest bottle 
>>> possible and to keep the weight as low as possible.
>>>
>>> My bikes are small and they ALWAYS collide with the front der.  When I 
>>> hade a custom made, I did a braze-on front der.  1x drivetrains have 
>>> helped, too
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:00:58 AM UTC-4 Michael Baquerizo 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 i'm ready for the answer to be so obvious that I assume this is a dumb 
 question. 

 So often, on many bike frame, but also on Riv's - the bottle bosses on 
 the seat tube straddle where the derailleur clamp would go. 

 however, almost AS often as I see this, I also see plenty of real 
 estate for them to exist ABOVE said clamp area, where they'd no doubt be 
 more easily accessed by a rider.

 why? it seems so obviously a design flaw, but surely I'M the one in the 
 wrong.

>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to [email protected].
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7c7c5cc1-4b50-4e6f-bccf-1c5dc1211234n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-20 Thread Brian Turner 
I still think it would’ve been neat to include some cargo bosses behind the seat tube on some of the longer chainstays models like Gus, Joe, and Clem. There’s so much space back there, I had a custom frame bag made to fit back there. It holds a lot, too!BrianLex KY On Sep 20, 2024, at 1:29 PM, Greg J  wrote:There's also an aesthetic consideration - I read somewhere that the custom builder (not sure if it was Riv) took care to make sure the bottles on the seat tube and the down tube were on the same horizontal line.GregOn Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:16:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:Low bosses also allow more room for a frame bag above them, though the bosses have been low longer than frame bags have been a thing, so I'm thinking that keeping the weight low is the original reason.EricOn Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 10:17 AM Ginz  wrote:  My guess is that they want to you have space for the largest bottle possible and to keep the weight as low as possible.My bikes are small and they ALWAYS collide with the front der.  When I hade a custom made, I did a braze-on front der.  1x drivetrains have helped, tooOn Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:00:58 AM UTC-4 Michael Baquerizo wrote:i'm ready for the answer to be so obvious that I assume this is a dumb question. So often, on many bike frame, but also on Riv's - the bottle bosses on the seat tube straddle where the derailleur clamp would go. however, almost AS often as I see this, I also see plenty of real estate for them to exist ABOVE said clamp area, where they'd no doubt be more easily accessed by a rider.why? it seems so obviously a design flaw, but surely I'M the one in the wrong.



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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-20 Thread Greg J 
There's also an aesthetic consideration - I read somewhere that the custom 
builder (not sure if it was Riv) took care to make sure the bottles on the 
seat tube and the down tube were on the same horizontal line.

Greg

On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:16:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> Low bosses also allow more room for a frame bag above them, though the 
> bosses have been low longer than frame bags have been a thing, so I'm 
> thinking that keeping the weight low is the original reason.
>
> Eric
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 10:17 AM Ginz  wrote:
>
>>   My guess is that they want to you have space for the largest bottle 
>> possible and to keep the weight as low as possible.
>>
>> My bikes are small and they ALWAYS collide with the front der.  When I 
>> hade a custom made, I did a braze-on front der.  1x drivetrains have 
>> helped, too
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:00:58 AM UTC-4 Michael Baquerizo 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i'm ready for the answer to be so obvious that I assume this is a dumb 
>>> question. 
>>>
>>> So often, on many bike frame, but also on Riv's - the bottle bosses on 
>>> the seat tube straddle where the derailleur clamp would go. 
>>>
>>> however, almost AS often as I see this, I also see plenty of real estate 
>>> for them to exist ABOVE said clamp area, where they'd no doubt be more 
>>> easily accessed by a rider.
>>>
>>> why? it seems so obviously a design flaw, but surely I'M the one in the 
>>> wrong.
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to [email protected].
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7c7c5cc1-4b50-4e6f-bccf-1c5dc1211234n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (perhaps) dumb question time (bottle bosses)

2024-09-20 Thread Eric Daume 
Low bosses also allow more room for a frame bag above them, though the
bosses have been low longer than frame bags have been a thing, so I'm
thinking that keeping the weight low is the original reason.

Eric

On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 10:17 AM Ginz  wrote:

>   My guess is that they want to you have space for the largest bottle
> possible and to keep the weight as low as possible.
>
> My bikes are small and they ALWAYS collide with the front der.  When I
> hade a custom made, I did a braze-on front der.  1x drivetrains have
> helped, too
>
>
> On Friday, September 20, 2024 at 10:00:58 AM UTC-4 Michael Baquerizo wrote:
>
>> i'm ready for the answer to be so obvious that I assume this is a dumb
>> question.
>>
>> So often, on many bike frame, but also on Riv's - the bottle bosses on
>> the seat tube straddle where the derailleur clamp would go.
>>
>> however, almost AS often as I see this, I also see plenty of real estate
>> for them to exist ABOVE said clamp area, where they'd no doubt be more
>> easily accessed by a rider.
>>
>> why? it seems so obviously a design flaw, but surely I'M the one in the
>> wrong.
>>
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> 
> .
>

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