Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2012-01-01 Thread Bertin753 
IME home brew cassettes work fine in friction, with -- IME -- only the rare 
juxtaposed pair not getting along. I've never bothered to pay much attention to 
marching series. Miche 0makes just about every size for decent prices -- $10 
for the 15 and 16 outers I ordered from my LBS, dor example.

Patrick Moore
Typed with two thumbs on my
iPhone

On Jan 1, 2012, at 6:37 PM, dougP  wrote:

> Mike:
> 
> I make my own 8 speed cassettes.  If you can match the series letters
> (see the charts on the Harris site) they shift better but especially
> friction they work pretty well even mis-matched.  I've even tossed in
> a few 7 speed cogs to get what I wanted & they still work OK, but my
> standards are not that strict.
> 
> Funny you should ask about modifying a 9 speed.  I inherited an 11-34
> 9 speed, and have it torn apart to put 8 speed spacers in (toss the
> 11).  I'll know in a day or so if it works.
> 
> The 13-26 8 speed that is commonly available makes a good base
> cassette.  Tossing the 14, 23 & 26 and adding 28 & 32 from an existing
> cassette works well.  About all I actually wear out are the middle
> ones like 17, 19, 21, maybe the odd 15 once in a while.  Great fun.
> 
> dougP
> 
> On Jan 1, 3:03 pm, Mike  wrote:
>> On Jan 1, 10:35 am, robert zeidler  wrote:> The 
>> custom cassettes from Harris Cyclery have been a revelation.
>> 
>> Yeah, they're great. I just wish they hadn't stopped making the 8spd
>> ones. Anyone know how to make one? Is it a matter of just altering a 9
>> spd cassette? I know the 9spd versions are still available. I prefer
>> the 8spd as I like the wider spacing although I have to wonder, is it
>> really noticeably different?
>> 
>> The gearing I really like is on my randonneur--46/30 matched with a
>> 13-28 6spd FW. I like the way this works with Riv shifters. I seem to
>> have every gear I need. I just wish I had more confidence in the IRD
>> FWs. My first one crapped out on me immediately. The 7spd I used
>> temporarily and the warrantied 6 spd have been fine so far.
>> 
>> --mike
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
> 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2012-01-01 Thread Steve Palincsar 
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 18:54 -0800, Mike wrote:
> Hey Doug, I may contact you off list later this week to ask about
> this. Like I said, my Sheldon Special cassette was great. It was 8
> speed and I think something like 13-30, worked really well with a
> triple at first and then later with a compact double. Unfortunately I
> didn't stay on top of changing out the chain frequently and it wore
> out.
> 
> I'd really like to make my own 7spd cassettes.

You know, there's a really nice standard 7 speed 13-30.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2012-01-01 Thread Steve Palincsar 
On Sun, 2012-01-01 at 15:03 -0800, Mike wrote:
> Yeah, they're great. I just wish they hadn't stopped making the 8spd
> ones. Anyone know how to make one? 

They stopped because Shimano changed the way the cassettes were
constructed, and taking the current models apart is too labor intensive,
requiring grinding.  I believe if you want to, you could do the grinding
yourself and make your own custom cassettes.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2012-01-01 Thread PATRICK MOORE 
Amen (and a respectful minute or two of silence) for the half step + granny
setup. Except, you don't need more than, say, six cogs to make it work and
once you get (or, at least, once *I* get to seven, I run out of things to
do with the extreme cogs. What do you do with the extras?

I used to love my commuting 48/45 with something like 12-13-15-17-20-24-32
semi/syntho/faux/ersatzsemi/demi/ halfstep setup: the 12 was strictly for
the outer for downhills with winds; 13 thru 24 half stepped beautifully
with a 24.75" wheel; and the 32 was for the 43 that, therewith, gave me a
stump pulling 33" gear for the one or two very steep hills I encountered.

Odd: I find that I'd much rather have these gears: 85-75-70-65-60-50 than a
much wider range of gears without the 70, 65 and 60 inchers.

Patrick "Just spreading myself (in M Twain's idiom) and not criticizing
anyone. I have for very long found bicycle gearing a fascinating topic,
even when I use very few" Moore

On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 12:03 PM, GAJett  wrote:

> I've ridden a Brooks Pro for years, first on a Raleigh Competition
> (replacing the original B-17) and now on an AHH.  It has NEVER hurt me,
> even when new, the way other saddles have.  And it has never seen the
> business end of any blunt instrument (other than my bum).
>
> BTW my gearing is a "half-step + granny":
> front:  44 / 41 / 24
> rear:  12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 21 / 24 / 28 / 32 / 36.
> This gives a gear range from 18.2 to 100.2 inches on 650Bs.  It'll climb
> just about anything where I can keep the front wheel down, and I can keep
> climbing when bonked.
>
> This is based on a standard Shimano cassette from RBW and a special
> combination of chainwheels with Sugino 44 and 24 ordered from RBW and the
> 41 a TA from Harris Cyclery.  Kudos for Grant and the RBW staff from
> setting this up.
>
> For those not familiar with the "half-step + granny" you can consider this
> to be a compact double with the ability to fine-tune the gearing on the
> high side between the large chainwheels.  I've ridden this type of gearing
> for 30 years and wouldn't change for anything!  (Originally a TA 49 / 46 /
> 26 by SunTour Ultra 13 / 15 / 17 / 20 / 23 / 26 102 to 27 inches -- I'm
> getting older.)
> Cheers.
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ilumVpNiJxMJ.
>
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>



-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2012-01-01 Thread GAJett 
I've ridden a Brooks Pro for years, first on a Raleigh Competition 
(replacing the original B-17) and now on an AHH.  It has NEVER hurt me, 
even when new, the way other saddles have.  And it has never seen the 
business end of any blunt instrument (other than my bum).

BTW my gearing is a "half-step + granny":
front:  44 / 41 / 24
rear:  12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 21 / 24 / 28 / 32 / 36.
This gives a gear range from 18.2 to 100.2 inches on 650Bs.  It'll climb 
just about anything where I can keep the front wheel down, and I can keep 
climbing when bonked.

This is based on a standard Shimano cassette from RBW and a special 
combination of chainwheels with Sugino 44 and 24 ordered from RBW and the 
41 a TA from Harris Cyclery.  Kudos for Grant and the RBW staff from 
setting this up.

For those not familiar with the "half-step + granny" you can consider this 
to be a compact double with the ability to fine-tune the gearing on the 
high side between the large chainwheels.  I've ridden this type of gearing 
for 30 years and wouldn't change for anything!  (Originally a TA 49 / 46 / 
26 by SunTour Ultra 13 / 15 / 17 / 20 / 23 / 26 102 to 27 inches -- I'm 
getting older.)
Cheers.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ilumVpNiJxMJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-31 Thread Smitty-A-Go-Go 
I was told the other day that the 40X26 double on my AHH is a "Portland 
Double". 


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/6gu0PkROYcUJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread brian feltovich 
Living in the mountains, I'm very happy to have a 30/46 compact double setup. 
With a 12-32 cassette in back I can spin my steel bike up most things. Barcons 
make front dérailleur trimming easy. If I had loaded bags on board I suppose 
I'd be happy to have a triple, but as it is I appreciate the elegance of the 
50.4 bcd cranks. Knees are still good, touch wood.

Brian
Park City, UT

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Jsz6uuTE54YJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Steve Palincsar 
On Fri, 2011-12-30 at 16:39 -0800, Mojo wrote:
> On my Legolas I have 36/50 chainrings and the 12-36 Shimano
> 9speed cassette that Rivendell sells. That gives me a low gear of
> 36X36 = 27inches. As an unloaded bike I haven't run into anything I
> can't climb with that gear, or its too technical dirt for me and that
> bike anyway. I have triples on my load carrying bikes. 
> 

Personally, for grades over 12% that go on at that steepness for a mile
and a half or two miles, I like to have a 22" gear.  I might not stay in
it for the whole distance, but it sure is nice to have it.  24 front, 30
rear will give it to me.  This is on a 24/36/46 110/74 triple that most
of the time is used as though it was a compact double (that just happens
to have a third granny ring).

It's easy to get good gearing with 9 speeds.  It's a bit more difficult
with 10, or at least it was until recently.  In the past year or two,
SRAM has released the Apex system which has 10 speed cassettes that go
to 32, 34 and maybe even to 36. google results are inconclusive: I can
find 12-36 for sale, allegedly, but can't find a listing on SRAM's site
for them and nobody can tell me what sprockets come on it.

It's also curious what sprocket combinations you do find.  The 11-32's
gears are reasonably well spaced, except that the 11 is too high; but
the 12-32 has a gap between the largest and next to largest sprockets
that's large enough to fall into and get lost.

I know Shimano has some 10 spd Mtb cassettes now, but can't find out
much about them: are they in fact compatible with road shifters or with
"old" Shimano MTB rear derailleurs?



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Mojo 
On my Legolas I have 36/50 chainrings and the 12-36 Shimano 9speed cassette 
that Rivendell sells. That gives me a low gear of 36X36 = 27inches. As an 
unloaded bike I haven't run into anything I can't climb with that gear, or 
its too technical dirt for me and that bike anyway. I have triples on my 
load carrying bikes.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Fm8Svc6RDd0J.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Anne Paulson 
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
 wrote:
> Re: complicated triples.
 Hmm. My Roadeo has a 28 in the front, and a 34 low, or it might be a
32. And I use that low gear at least once a week. But then, I like to
climb long, ridiculously steep roads.

> With STI shifters, which are ubiquitous in the high-end road bike market, 
> shifting with triples has always been finicky. Recent STI seems better, but 
> still not as simple as it is with friction.
>
> Like DougP said, road triples have just a 30t low (and a 50t or 52t big 
> ring). I assume it's customary to combine that with a 12-27 so chain wrap 
> considerations don't cause problems. With the compact double and a 34t small 
> ring, you could more easily use a 11-32 or whatever without chain wrap being 
> such an important variable. Therefore, the low gear in both setups may be 
> similar.


-- 
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
Re: complicated triples. 

With STI shifters, which are ubiquitous in the high-end road bike market, 
shifting with triples has always been finicky. Recent STI seems better, but 
still not as simple as it is with friction.

Like DougP said, road triples have just a 30t low (and a 50t or 52t big ring). 
I assume it's customary to combine that with a 12-27 so chain wrap 
considerations don't cause problems. With the compact double and a 34t small 
ring, you could more easily use a 11-32 or whatever without chain wrap being 
such an important variable. Therefore, the low gear in both setups may be 
similar.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/KJxjNr_bESUJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Anne Paulson 
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> My wife runs a compact double.  48x24 .. on her ROADEO.   Guess it doesn't 
> matter double or triple but get gearing that works for how you ride.

Which is fine. For some terrains, for some riders, a compact double is
just the thing. But riders who either skip roads because they don't
have low enough gears, or who zigzag on hills they ride, need lower
gears.

-- 
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Joe Bernard 
Exactly. My XO-3 is 42-32, with a 13-21 freewheel. It works great on steep 
hills because...I don't ride it on them. I have an AHH triple for that. 
 
Joe "different tools for different jobs" Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/VWrKNxGKPWAJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

RE: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Kelly Sleeper 
My wife runs a compact double.  48x24 .. on her ROADEO.   Guess it doesn't 
matter double or triple but get gearing that works for how you ride.

kelly

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/WGWDHvv_ydEJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

RE: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J 
Excellent bilingual gender neutrality...


From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of PATRICK MOORE
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

Well, while I agree that weight obsession is silly (at least, I am largely over 
it now) and conventional racer gearing is also silly for most mortals, I would 
not discount weight and compact doubles altogether. I had a very nice 2X9 
mountain bike that had a 20" low -- no reason compact doubles can't have very 
low gears. And, again, it is a joy to push a bike 10 to 15 lb lighter than my 
heaviest vehicles up a hill in a highish gear. Chacun/e a son/sa gout/e.

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Anne Paulson 
mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Joan Oppel 
mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Recent interaction to add to the rant:  I joined a local club group for a
> 'Christmas lights' ride a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday evening.  The
> route involved part of hilly Arlington County (but not the truly devilish
> hilly sections of the county).  A friend of mine invited me, he wanted me to
> meet 'Bunny', a woman he described as "70 and doing adventurous rides with
> her group of friends".  So Bunny and I met, and being close to the same age,
> we bonded quickly.  But I was on the Bleriot and she was on a Specialized
> carbon fiber, compact double bike - and struggling on the hills.  She asked
> me why I could so easily go up the hills (well, I do ride a LOT and usually
> on hilly terrain).  I said, well, you might do better with more gears.  She
> replied, I know, I shouldn't have listened to the guy in the bike shop who
> sold me this bike and told me it had all the gears I would ever need.
>
> THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE AT BIKE SHOPS MAKES ME CRAZY!

That's ridiculous. The best guess for a crank for a 70-year-old woman
riding in an area with hills is a triple, with very low gears. Isn't
it usually possible to install a triple on these bikes with stupid
compact doubles? I would have suggested that the woman get her bike
changed over. If one is in one's 70s, one shouldn't be missing out on
good riding-- when we start getting on in years, we need to take
advantage of all the riding we can squeeze in.

One of the people I was ranting about is the 98-pound woman, who is in
her 60s and a strong climber. She has a compact double on her bike,
and she assured me that a triple would be too heavy. And yet-- I was
stronger up some of the *very steep!!!* hills, she was stronger on one
long *steep* hill, though she ended up zigzagging. But then, at the
end, there was one more steep hill. And, having not had to kill myself
in a too-high gear on all the other hills, I rode up it and she
skipped it. People should ride the bikes they want, but it seems to me
that some of these riders have chosen bikes that are keeping them from
doing riding that they would enjoy on a different bike.

And the other thing about these light bikes that annoys me is, OK, you
will ride faster up hills on a lighter bike, all other things being
equal. That is perfectly true, and in my club we do a lot of hills.
But... this is only a positional good. That is, if everybody buys a
lighter bike, then everybody will be just that little bit faster, but
nobody is any better off. That is, Ted can still beat Susan, and Susan
can still beat Alan, but the order of arrival at the top of the hill
will be exactly the same as if they all rode Rivendells. It's a
pointless arms race. And my club is big, so we have lots of rides for
people of all abilities, so riders can always find people of about the
same speed anyway.

 A Riv, on the other hand, has intrinsic value that doesn't depend on
what other people are riding. No matter what my riding friends are
riding, my Roadeo will still be beautiful. It'll be comfortable, and
it will handle like a dream. Unlike those carbon fiber bikes, my
Roadeo fits fenders so I will still be able to ride through winter
storms while they're staying home. My green Atlantis will still go
anywhere anytime carrying pretty much anything I want, and my purple
Atlantis will be the perfect touring machine that I can ride every
day, loaded, for weeks and months, through mountains and forests. I
get pleasure out of my bikes, independent of what other people have.

--
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected]<mailto:rbw-ow

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-30 Thread Steve Palincsar 
On Fri, 2011-12-30 at 08:56 -0800, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
> Hah!!!  You probably left out:
> 
> "Is that Brooks saddle REALLY that comfortable?"... 


Funny, usually they start telling me about how it takes forever to break
one in and how you need to use a ball peen hammer...

How far we've come from the days when Packard used to advertise, "Ask
the man who owns one..."





-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Kelly Sleeper 
Here is fun chart to play with 

http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.html

Kelly

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/HDb2DyclhLoJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread William 
Weight matters.  It just matters less than some people think.  I did a 200k 
permanent with my cousin on the 27th.  He was on a 17lb bike, and I was on 
my Hilsen which is a svelte 24lbs with no handlebar bag but with a 
handlebar bag and two full bottles, it's got to be 35 lbs.  I had to think 
the fact that his bike weighed half of mine had to make *some* difference.  
But, if I was going to obsess about weight, I wouldn't have brought the 
camera.   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/knawTi_e_FAJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Joe Bernard 
*The usual comment you see on the forums is "triples are too
complicated."  Can't say I ever understood that.*
** 
I think some people find the centering/trimming activity betwen the small 
and middle rings troublesome. Most of these people are running indexed 
front brifters, which, in my one experience, sucked several levels of Big 
Time for triple-shifting. It's a shifter problem, not number of chainrings. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/7W7wys49j60J.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Steve Palincsar 
On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 16:46 -0800, Joe Bernard wrote:
> I think one thing that gets missed about folks who prefer Compact
> Doubles is that it isn't just about a minimal weight savings: It's
> looks. "Touring bikes have triples, racing bikes have doubles." This
> matters to modern-carbon-racey people. Plus, SRAM's Tapshift only
> works doubles.

The usual comment you see on the forums is "triples are too
complicated."  Can't say I ever understood that.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Joe Bernard 
I've got the power, but the Citroen will get me with lightness. Until a big 
gust of wind on the pass between Vallejo and Fairfield...

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/RT483602v1sJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Bertin753 
Joe: I'll take uou any day in my Acadiane. (When I get the clutch fixed.)

Patrick "30 hp requires a non-slip clutch" More

Patrick Moore
Typed with two thumbs on my
iPhone

On Dec 29, 2011, at 2:32 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 13:19 -0800, Joe Bernard wrote:
>> Two quick points: 1. Horsepower matters. My 260hp Chevy HHR SS is much
>> more fun and useful than my 140hp Civic was. Getting going NOW when
>> the need arises is worth the money.
> 
> Unless you spend a lot of time robbing convenience stores or at the drag
> strip, just how often does the need arise to "get going NOW"?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
> 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Kelly Sleeper 
Anne

I thought a Roadeo was a weight weenie bike.  :) 

Kelly

I'll have to remember to duck after my wife reads this one.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/U6E9S0hddOoJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Joe Bernard 
*Unless you spend a lot of time robbing convenience stores or at the drag
strip, just how often does the need arise to "get going NOW"?*
** 
Merging on freeways, getting away from lane-darting idiots on freeways, 
zipping past left-turners who can't see a bright red car anymore than they 
can see bicycles and motorcycles. I had a series of Toyotas and Hondas 
which would respond to these moments with noise, and not much else. Nobody*needs
* 500hp, but half that is pretty useful where I live. But I digress. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/GVup7rNIgHoJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Steve Palincsar 
On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 13:19 -0800, Joe Bernard wrote:
> Two quick points: 1. Horsepower matters. My 260hp Chevy HHR SS is much
> more fun and useful than my 140hp Civic was. Getting going NOW when
> the need arises is worth the money.

Unless you spend a lot of time robbing convenience stores or at the drag
strip, just how often does the need arise to "get going NOW"?



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Steve Palincsar 
On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 10:16 -0800, Anne Paulson wrote:
> 
> And the other thing about these light bikes that annoys me is, OK, you
> will ride faster up hills on a lighter bike, all other things being
> equal. That is perfectly true, and in my club we do a lot of hills.
> But... this is only a positional good. That is, if everybody buys a
> lighter bike, then everybody will be just that little bit faster, but
> nobody is any better off. That is, Ted can still beat Susan, and Susan
> can still beat Alan, but the order of arrival at the top of the hill
> will be exactly the same as if they all rode Rivendells. It's a
> pointless arms race. And my club is big, so we have lots of rides for
> people of all abilities, so riders can always find people of about the
> same speed anyway.

I remember when boutique wheels came on the scene.  There was a bunch of
guys in my bike club who always rode together.  First one, then the
next, eventually one by one, they all switched to high-zoot boutique
wheels.  It was an arms race, with the goal of being the fastest in the
pack.  When it was all over, everyone was in exactly the same position
in the pack that they'd been in before, but collectively they'd spent
enough on wheels to buy a new car.  But they all felt FAST.  And looked
PRO.






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Steve Palincsar 
On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 11:50 -0600, Joan Oppel wrote:
>  She asked me why I could so easily go up the hills (well, I do ride a
> LOT and usually on hilly terrain).  I said, well, you might do better
> with more gears.  She replied, I know, I shouldn't have listened to
> the guy in the bike shop who sold me this bike and told me it had all
> the gears I would ever need.  

They almost certainly also told her a compact double gave her the
identical low gear that she would have with a triple.  And, for a very
narrow set of assumptions, it does.  

Of course, that set of assumptions doesn't include cassettes with 32, 34
or 36 tooth sprockets, or granny rings with 24 or 26 teeth, or triples
with big rings of 46 or 48 teeth: in other words, Joan Oppel-style
gearing!  That is to say, the sort of gearing you will find on most
Rivendells.





-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Joan Oppel 
Yes, Anne - it is ridiculous that this 70 year old does not have a triple.  And I had to bite my tongue NOT to tell her to go get her bike outfitted with a triple.  It wasn't really the time/place for that - in the dark, looking at Christmas decorations, holiday spirit among the group.  That's one reason why I invited her to come ride with me on another occasion.  I will talk to her about retrofitting it when I next see her.  The countryside here has a lot of beautiful scenic places to ride, but the prettiest areas have hills. However, retrofitting her existing bike will not be cheap - it is usually possible to install a triple but it takes some work and could cost her (just an educated guess, folks) around $300, maybe more.   Given that the retrofit would allow her to bike more, more easily and see more of those scenic places, maybe she'll be willing to spend the money.My other bike (other than the Bleriot with standard Riv build) is an 8 year old Waterford.  However, I spec'd every bit of it, so it has a triple, low gears, comfort geometry, and room for 30-32mm tires.  Every couple of months, some guy on a club ride comments on my cassette (11-34), "wow, that's quite a low gear you've got there".  I say, "you bet it is".  I may only use that gear once every 3 months, but when I want it, there it is.  My low gear was especially helpful in Southwest Virginia this past June on a Bike Virginia tour, where most people walked many of the hills.  Or, as Anne describes, were weaving back and forth in that dangerous way - because with hills that steep, you couldn't see oncoming cars. (I actually didn't know about Rivendell when I bought the Waterford, and I didn't spec the geometry but did describe the comfort I wanted.)Joan   On 12/29/11, Anne Paulson wrote: On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Joan Oppel  wrote:> Recent interaction to add to the rant:  I joined a local club group for a> 'Christmas lights' ride a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday evening.  The> route involved part of hilly Arlington County (but not the truly devilish> hilly sections of the county).  A friend of mine invited me, he wanted me to> meet 'Bunny', a woman he described as "70 and doing adventurous rides with> her group of friends".  So Bunny and I met, and being close to the same age,> we bonded quickly.  But I was on the Bleriot and she was on a Specialized> carbon fiber, compact double bike - and struggling on the hills.  She asked> me why I could so easily go up the hills (well, I do ride a LOT and usually> on hilly terrain).  I said, well, you might do better with more gears.  She> replied, I know, I shouldn't have listened to the guy in the bike shop who> sold me this bike and told me it had all the gears I would ever need.>> THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE AT BIKE SHOPS MAKES ME CRAZY!That's ridiculous. The best guess for a crank for a 70-year-old womanriding in an area with hills is a triple, with very low gears. Isn'tit usually possible to install a triple on these bikes with stupidcompact doubles? I would have suggested that the woman get her bikechanged over. If one is in one's 70s, one shouldn't be missing out ongood riding-- when we start getting on in years, we need to takeadvantage of all the riding we can squeeze in.One of the people I was ranting about is the 98-pound woman, who is inher 60s and a strong climber. She has a compact double on her bike,and she assured me that a triple would be too heavy. And yet-- I wasstronger up some of the *very steep!!!* hills, she was stronger on onelong *steep* hill, though she ended up zigzagging. But then, at theend, there was one more steep hill. And, having not had to kill myselfin a too-high gear on all the other hills, I rode up it and sheskipped it. People should ride the bikes they want, but it seems to methat some of these riders have chosen bikes that are keeping them fromdoing riding that they would enjoy on a different bike.And the other thing about these light bikes that annoys me is, OK, youwill ride faster up hills on a lighter bike, all other things beingequal. That is perfectly true, and in my club we do a lot of hills.But... this is only a positional good. That is, if everybody buys alighter bike, then everybody will be just that little bit faster, butnobody is any better off. That is, Ted can still beat Susan, and Susancan still beat Alan, but the order of arrival at the top of the hillwill be exactly the same as if they all rode Rivendells. It's apointless arms race. And my club is big, so we have lots of rides forpeople of all abilities, so riders can always find people of about thesame speed anyway. A Riv, on the other hand, has intrinsic value that doesn't depend onwhat other people are riding. No matter what my riding friends areriding, my Roadeo will still be beautiful. It'll be comfortable, andit will handle like a dream. Unlike those carbon fiber bikes, myRoadeo fits fenders so I will still be able to ride through winterstorms while they're staying ho

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Robert F. Harrison 
When folks me ask me how much my Quickbeam (or my Friday for that matter)
weighs I answer honestly, "I haven't the foggiest, but if I lost five
pounds the whole package would be five pounds lighter." Then I go ride
fifty or sixty miles, with tools, snacks, cameras, this and that. I'm slow
but happy, even on hills where I'm never the first up, but darn if I don't
fly down 'em. :-)

Aloha!

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Esteban  wrote:

> "I swear, when someone shows up at my club with a new bike, the first
> and only topic of discussion is weight."
>
> Whenever someone asks me "how much does it weigh" at a stoplight when
> I'm riding the Protovelo, I say 17 lbs.  Its a good way to end that
> conversation.
>
> On long rides when I'm trying to keep a good pace, little things like
> weight matter - but not as much as comfort.  I actually think design
> has more to do with speed than anything else bike-related (rider makes
> the difference!).
> Esteban
> San Diego, Calif.
>
>
>
> On Dec 29, 10:44 am, dougP  wrote:
> > "I swear, when someone shows up at my club with a new bike, the first
> > and only topic of discussion is weight."
> >
> > My guess is there isn't much else to discuss about a new racing bike!
> > Basic design, materials & components are all so tightly spec'd that a
> > customer has to know exactly what they want to get anything
> > different.  A friend recently bought a MCRB and insisted on changes.
> > She's an experienced rider & spec'd a triple, wide range cassette and
> > flat bars.  The shop built it up her way but it took some discussion.
> > She didn't buy the line about "it's so light you won't need lower
> > gears."  Funny thing is shop guys argue against "the complexity of a
> > triple" and in the next breadth are touting the wonders of the 10
> > speed.
> >
> > On the other hand, we can wax poetic about racks, bags, luggage,
> > lights, fenders, tires, etc., because We Have Choices!  Cantis or V-
> > brakes?  28mm or 50mm tires?  Nitto or Tubus?  Grant said something to
> > the effect that a frame is just a place to install parts.  So far, I
> > haven't stopped fiddling with my Atlantis.
> >
> > dougP
> >
> > On Dec 28, 11:11 pm, Anne Paulson  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I love riding with my bike club, really I do, and they're wonderful
> > > people and great riding companions, but can I just rant here, among
> > > like-people, for just a minute?
> >
> > > I swear, when someone shows up at my club with a new bike, the first
> > > and only topic of discussion is weight.
> >
> > > WEIGHT IS NOT THE ONLY CRITERION WHEN PICKING BIKE FRAMES AND BIKE
> PARTS.
> >
> > > Thank you. I'll lower my voice now. I was very good today on my clubs
> > > bike ride, 29 miles, 3900 feet of elevation, lots of sections in the
> > > high teens in grade. I kept my mouth shut, mostly, did not swear, and
> > > did not mention that I thought my companions' bikes were ridiculously
> > > overgeared for what they were trying to do with them. I did not say...
> >
> > > ...No, a compact double is not significantly lighter than a triple,
> > > and if you can't climb that hill without weaving back and forth and
> > > getting in my way, not to mention dangerously cutting across the
> > > center line, you should put a triple on your bike.
> >
> > > ...You can't notice a two pound difference in weight. You can't,
> > > unless you can tell me with a straight face that you climb
> > > significantly faster when your water bottles are empty.
> >
> > > ...If you weigh 98 pounds, stiffness and compliance in a bike are
> > > irrelevant for you. Also, if you weigh 98 pounds, you're not climbing
> > > faster than me (when you do) because your *bike* is lighter than my
> > > *bike*.  I could ride a weightless bike, and I'd still weigh more than
> > > you and your bike put together.
> >
> > > Yawn. As I said, I love riding with my club. But jeez, there's more to
> > > bikes than how much they weigh.
> >
> > > --
> > > -- Anne Paulson
> >
> > > My hovercraft is full of eels
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
Robert Harrison
[email protected]
statrix.com

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Allan in Portland 
Maybe it's just me, and I mean no offense, but all this talk of older women 
climbing hills on over-geared bikes gives me the willies. I'd think the 
knees wouldn't remotely stand for that sort of abuse.

-Allan

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ide_4awLzZ8J.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread PATRICK MOORE 
Well, while I agree that weight obsession is silly (at least, I am largely
over it now) and conventional racer gearing is also silly for most mortals,
I would not discount weight and compact doubles altogether. I had a very
nice 2X9 mountain bike that had a 20" low -- no reason compact doubles
can't have very low gears. And, again, it is a joy to push a bike 10 to 15
lb lighter than my heaviest vehicles up a hill in a highish gear. Chacun/e
a son/sa gout/e.

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Anne Paulson wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Joan Oppel  wrote:
> > Recent interaction to add to the rant:  I joined a local club group for a
> > 'Christmas lights' ride a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday evening.  The
> > route involved part of hilly Arlington County (but not the truly devilish
> > hilly sections of the county).  A friend of mine invited me, he wanted
> me to
> > meet 'Bunny', a woman he described as "70 and doing adventurous rides
> with
> > her group of friends".  So Bunny and I met, and being close to the same
> age,
> > we bonded quickly.  But I was on the Bleriot and she was on a Specialized
> > carbon fiber, compact double bike - and struggling on the hills.  She
> asked
> > me why I could so easily go up the hills (well, I do ride a LOT and
> usually
> > on hilly terrain).  I said, well, you might do better with more gears.
>  She
> > replied, I know, I shouldn't have listened to the guy in the bike shop
> who
> > sold me this bike and told me it had all the gears I would ever need.
> >
> > THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE AT BIKE SHOPS MAKES ME CRAZY!
>
> That's ridiculous. The best guess for a crank for a 70-year-old woman
> riding in an area with hills is a triple, with very low gears. Isn't
> it usually possible to install a triple on these bikes with stupid
> compact doubles? I would have suggested that the woman get her bike
> changed over. If one is in one's 70s, one shouldn't be missing out on
> good riding-- when we start getting on in years, we need to take
> advantage of all the riding we can squeeze in.
>
> One of the people I was ranting about is the 98-pound woman, who is in
> her 60s and a strong climber. She has a compact double on her bike,
> and she assured me that a triple would be too heavy. And yet-- I was
> stronger up some of the *very steep!!!* hills, she was stronger on one
> long *steep* hill, though she ended up zigzagging. But then, at the
> end, there was one more steep hill. And, having not had to kill myself
> in a too-high gear on all the other hills, I rode up it and she
> skipped it. People should ride the bikes they want, but it seems to me
> that some of these riders have chosen bikes that are keeping them from
> doing riding that they would enjoy on a different bike.
>
> And the other thing about these light bikes that annoys me is, OK, you
> will ride faster up hills on a lighter bike, all other things being
> equal. That is perfectly true, and in my club we do a lot of hills.
> But... this is only a positional good. That is, if everybody buys a
> lighter bike, then everybody will be just that little bit faster, but
> nobody is any better off. That is, Ted can still beat Susan, and Susan
> can still beat Alan, but the order of arrival at the top of the hill
> will be exactly the same as if they all rode Rivendells. It's a
> pointless arms race. And my club is big, so we have lots of rides for
> people of all abilities, so riders can always find people of about the
> same speed anyway.
>
>  A Riv, on the other hand, has intrinsic value that doesn't depend on
> what other people are riding. No matter what my riding friends are
> riding, my Roadeo will still be beautiful. It'll be comfortable, and
> it will handle like a dream. Unlike those carbon fiber bikes, my
> Roadeo fits fenders so I will still be able to ride through winter
> storms while they're staying home. My green Atlantis will still go
> anywhere anytime carrying pretty much anything I want, and my purple
> Atlantis will be the perfect touring machine that I can ride every
> day, loaded, for weeks and months, through mountains and forests. I
> get pleasure out of my bikes, independent of what other people have.
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> My hovercraft is full of eels
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-o

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread PATRICK MOORE 
I love hills, and I love carrying loads up hills -- a shopping load up a
hill on the trike is great fun. Disclaimer: I am a short distance rider, 30
miles being a long ride -- call me a 1/10 Eric. But this means that I am
quite happy pushing biggish gears uphill: 20 lb in the Hoss, standing in a
50" low up a local, very steep, 4/10 mile hill is one example, or ditto on
a 1 mile long but less steep hill (I rate hills by rough average coasting
downhill speed: the very steep is a 40+, the longer one a 30 or 35
depending on the section). Anyway,  one of cycling's great pleasures is
standing on hills, IMO.

Still, it is very nice on occasion to get on my 17 3/4 lb gofast fixie and
push a 75" gear up the same hills. Zen out and take it slow and easy.

Patrick "about to haul some groceries up some hills on the newly
be-Campered Fargo" Moore in 50F ABQ, NM

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:

> I've embraced "heavy" bikes, and they've become part of my cycling
> persona--my nickname on the bike is "Diesel," in part because Diesels tend
> to be heavy. I proudly declare to all who will listen that there is
> virtually nothing on any of my bikes that was chosen because it was light.
>
> --Eric
> [email protected]
> www.campyonly.com
> www.wheelsnorth.org
>
> On Dec 29, 2011, at 7:19 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Thank you, thank you, thank you!  Nearly everyday, a coworker, who rides a
> carbon fiber bike, comes in my office, lifts up my Atlantis by the top tube
> and exclaims: "My god that's heavy".  I've run out of things to say to him
> in reply so I may forward your post instead.
>
> As a side note, since I've put my "massive" (his words) 50mm Schwalbe Big
> Apples on the Atlantis a few weeks ago, I swear the bike is actually
> quieter, nearly silent.  I never realized how loud tires can be...or maybe
> I just had some bad ones before?
>
> Happy New Year!
> Robert Opalko
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/zkSLEWLhZkoJ.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>



-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Rex Kerr 
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 7:19 AM, [email protected]  wrote:

> Thank you, thank you, thank you!  Nearly everyday, a coworker, who rides a
> carbon fiber bike, comes in my office, lifts up my Atlantis by the top tube
> and exclaims: "My god that's heavy".  I've run out of things to say to him
> in reply so I may forward your post instead.
>

The question is... do they lift it while it's still fitted with panniers
that still contain your lunch, the tools that you use more frequently for
saving stranded CF riders than to fix your own bike, and half full bottles?

I inevitably have to laugh when they try to lift my bike by the middle of
the top tube, and the loaded rear wheel doesn't even come off the ground
before they exclaim that it's heavy...  oh, really?  You mean my canvas
bags, glass and stainless steel lunch containers, and tools weigh as much
as you'd expect an entire bike to weigh?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Anne Paulson 
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Joan Oppel  wrote:
> Recent interaction to add to the rant:  I joined a local club group for a
> 'Christmas lights' ride a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday evening.  The
> route involved part of hilly Arlington County (but not the truly devilish
> hilly sections of the county).  A friend of mine invited me, he wanted me to
> meet 'Bunny', a woman he described as "70 and doing adventurous rides with
> her group of friends".  So Bunny and I met, and being close to the same age,
> we bonded quickly.  But I was on the Bleriot and she was on a Specialized
> carbon fiber, compact double bike - and struggling on the hills.  She asked
> me why I could so easily go up the hills (well, I do ride a LOT and usually
> on hilly terrain).  I said, well, you might do better with more gears.  She
> replied, I know, I shouldn't have listened to the guy in the bike shop who
> sold me this bike and told me it had all the gears I would ever need.
>
> THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE AT BIKE SHOPS MAKES ME CRAZY!

That's ridiculous. The best guess for a crank for a 70-year-old woman
riding in an area with hills is a triple, with very low gears. Isn't
it usually possible to install a triple on these bikes with stupid
compact doubles? I would have suggested that the woman get her bike
changed over. If one is in one's 70s, one shouldn't be missing out on
good riding-- when we start getting on in years, we need to take
advantage of all the riding we can squeeze in.

One of the people I was ranting about is the 98-pound woman, who is in
her 60s and a strong climber. She has a compact double on her bike,
and she assured me that a triple would be too heavy. And yet-- I was
stronger up some of the *very steep!!!* hills, she was stronger on one
long *steep* hill, though she ended up zigzagging. But then, at the
end, there was one more steep hill. And, having not had to kill myself
in a too-high gear on all the other hills, I rode up it and she
skipped it. People should ride the bikes they want, but it seems to me
that some of these riders have chosen bikes that are keeping them from
doing riding that they would enjoy on a different bike.

And the other thing about these light bikes that annoys me is, OK, you
will ride faster up hills on a lighter bike, all other things being
equal. That is perfectly true, and in my club we do a lot of hills.
But... this is only a positional good. That is, if everybody buys a
lighter bike, then everybody will be just that little bit faster, but
nobody is any better off. That is, Ted can still beat Susan, and Susan
can still beat Alan, but the order of arrival at the top of the hill
will be exactly the same as if they all rode Rivendells. It's a
pointless arms race. And my club is big, so we have lots of rides for
people of all abilities, so riders can always find people of about the
same speed anyway.

 A Riv, on the other hand, has intrinsic value that doesn't depend on
what other people are riding. No matter what my riding friends are
riding, my Roadeo will still be beautiful. It'll be comfortable, and
it will handle like a dream. Unlike those carbon fiber bikes, my
Roadeo fits fenders so I will still be able to ride through winter
storms while they're staying home. My green Atlantis will still go
anywhere anytime carrying pretty much anything I want, and my purple
Atlantis will be the perfect touring machine that I can ride every
day, loaded, for weeks and months, through mountains and forests. I
get pleasure out of my bikes, independent of what other people have.

-- 
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Joan Oppel 
Recent interaction to add to the rant:  I joined a local club group for a 'Christmas lights' ride a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday evening.  The route involved part of hilly Arlington County (but not the truly devilish hilly sections of the county).  A friend of mine invited me, he wanted me to meet 'Bunny', a woman he described as "70 and doing adventurous rides with her group of friends".  So Bunny and I met, and being close to the same age, we bonded quickly.  But I was on the Bleriot and she was on a Specialized carbon fiber, compact double bike - and struggling on the hills.  She asked me why I could so easily go up the hills (well, I do ride a LOT and usually on hilly terrain).  I said, well, you might do better with more gears.  She replied, I know, I shouldn't have listened to the guy in the bike shop who sold me this bike and told me it had all the gears I would ever need.  THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE AT BIKE SHOPS MAKES ME CRAZY!  Ok, that's the end of my rant, and by the way, I said nothing further to her about bikes.  We just chatted about other stuff for the rest of the ride.  Plus, she didn't show up for the next Christmas lights ride the following week, which did include some of the steeper Arlington hills.  Sad.  I've learned to try and keep my gear/weight thoughts to myself (try, operative word).JoanPS - I invited Bunny to join me on a ride I'm leading in a moderately hilly location for another local club mid-January and promised that she wouldn't be dropped.  So maybe I can help her along in her biking career.   On 12/29/11, Ray Shine wrote: Like most on this forum, I agree with all the comments, and applaud Anne for spot-on comments. That said, the undeniable fact remains that many more riders pass me on CF bikes then I pass on same. From: "[email protected]" To: [email protected]: Thu, December 29, 2011 7:19:22 AMSubject: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?Thank you, thank you, thank you!  Nearly everyday, a coworker, who rides a carbon fiber bike, comes in my office, lifts up my Atlantis by the top tube and exclaims: "My god that's heavy".  I've run out of things to say to him in reply so I may forward your post instead.As a side note, since I've put my "massive" (his words) 50mm Schwalbe Big Apples on the Atlantis a few weeks ago, I swear the bike is actually quieter, nearly silent.  I never realized how loud tires can be...or maybe I just had some bad ones before?Happy New Year!Robert Opalko-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/zkSLEWLhZkoJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.To post to this group, send email to [email protected] unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected].

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Ray Shine 
Like most on this forum, I agree with all the comments, and applaud Anne for 
spot-on comments. That said, the undeniable fact remains that many more riders 
pass me on CF bikes then I pass on same. 






From: "[email protected]" 
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, December 29, 2011 7:19:22 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

Thank you, thank you, thank you!  Nearly everyday, a coworker, who rides a 
carbon fiber bike, comes in my office, lifts up my Atlantis by the top tube and 
exclaims: "My god that's heavy".  I've run out of things to say to him in reply 
so I may forward your post instead.

As a side note, since I've put my "massive" (his words) 50mm Schwalbe Big 
Apples 
on the Atlantis a few weeks ago, I swear the bike is actually quieter, nearly 
silent.  I never realized how loud tires can be...or maybe I just had some bad 
ones before?

Happy New Year!
Robert Opalko

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/zkSLEWLhZkoJ.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Bruce Herbitter 
I think that Ann could unload the eels and she'd be way faster up the
hills


Like Ann, I have almost only good things to say about the local club folks
that I often ride with. The great majority of them keep their gram
obsession comments under wraps, and "wow that's a gorgeous bike" is about
all I hear when pedaling up in the Ram, Saluki, or Road Std.  In fact there
is a growing population of SFBs (steel framed bikes) in our little cadre
and a visible spread of leather seating even on the Al, Ti, and C frames as
well.  I'm still trying to get more wool converts though...


Tailwinds!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Can I rant just a minute?

2011-12-29 Thread Eric Norris 
I've embraced "heavy" bikes, and they've become part of my cycling persona--my 
nickname on the bike is "Diesel," in part because Diesels tend to be heavy. I 
proudly declare to all who will listen that there is virtually nothing on any 
of my bikes that was chosen because it was light.

--Eric
[email protected]
www.campyonly.com
www.wheelsnorth.org

On Dec 29, 2011, at 7:19 AM, [email protected] wrote:

> Thank you, thank you, thank you!  Nearly everyday, a coworker, who rides a 
> carbon fiber bike, comes in my office, lifts up my Atlantis by the top tube 
> and exclaims: "My god that's heavy".  I've run out of things to say to him in 
> reply so I may forward your post instead.
> 
> As a side note, since I've put my "massive" (his words) 50mm Schwalbe Big 
> Apples on the Atlantis a few weeks ago, I swear the bike is actually quieter, 
> nearly silent.  I never realized how loud tires can be...or maybe I just had 
> some bad ones before?
> 
> Happy New Year!
> Robert Opalko
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/zkSLEWLhZkoJ.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.