Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-03 Thread Patrick Moore 
"Masmojo" (sorry, don't know your name) said:

*I think the point is (& this is lost in modern politics) that advocacy
should be about everyone,  you should not vote for or against anything or
anyone based solely on how it effects you personally,  but how it effects
society as a whole. *

I agree with you here, and I agree too that I should not yank this thread
too far in the direction of questions of race, discrimination, and so
forth. But I personally am fascinated by ethnic and cultural differences,
and if anyone wants to continue the discussion off list, I will happily
participate.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 11:20 AM, masmojo  wrote:

> OK, well aside from your bucolic area of Albuquerque (which sounds awful
> sweet compared to the one I've visited on many occasions on my nomadic
> travels back & forth from Texas to Cali.) In most areas of the country
> including where my mom used to live in Napa Valley low income people do the
> majority of the menial tasks.  Thats not an indictment,  just the way it is
> and their ethnic identity is less significant than their role in this
> discussion.  It's America and most of us are a mix of something, so it's
> hardly worth mentioning.
> It's also not relevant if it does not apply in your part of the country,
> because it's true just about everywhere else.
> Othering?, hmm that's an interesting view and I don't think that's exactly
> what I am doing here,  no quite the opposite I think!? I DO want to be
> considered as one of those guys who parks his dept. Store bike in the rack
> @ Walmart & I am more than happy to have them identify with me as a fellow
> cyclist! Am I going to have them over to the house for cocktails? Probably
> not,  but hey ya gotta draw the line somewhere.
> I think the point is (& this is lost in modern politics) that advocacy
> should be about everyone,  you should not vote for or against anything or
> anyone based solely on how it effects you personally,  but how it effects
> society as a whole. The reality is that middle class persons (of ambiguous
> ethnic origin) are and always will be a small,  but vocal group & need to
> consider others less entitled in their decision making process.
>
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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-03 Thread masmojo 
I should point out that when I am talking about the middle class I mean middle 
class cyclists,  because I know someone is gonna comment on that even though 
it's implied. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-03 Thread masmojo 
OK, well aside from your bucolic area of Albuquerque (which sounds awful sweet 
compared to the one I've visited on many occasions on my nomadic travels back & 
forth from Texas to Cali.) In most areas of the country including where my mom 
used to live in Napa Valley low income people do the majority of the menial 
tasks.  Thats not an indictment,  just the way it is and their ethnic identity 
is less significant than their role in this discussion.  It's America and most 
of us are a mix of something, so it's hardly worth mentioning. 
It's also not relevant if it does not apply in your part of the country,  
because it's true just about everywhere else.
Othering?, hmm that's an interesting view and I don't think that's exactly what 
I am doing here,  no quite the opposite I think!? I DO want to be considered as 
one of those guys who parks his dept. Store bike in the rack @ Walmart & I am 
more than happy to have them identify with me as a fellow cyclist! Am I going 
to have them over to the house for cocktails? Probably not,  but hey ya gotta 
draw the line somewhere. 
I think the point is (& this is lost in modern politics) that advocacy should 
be about everyone,  you should not vote for or against anything or anyone based 
solely on how it effects you personally,  but how it effects society as a 
whole. The reality is that middle class persons (of ambiguous ethnic origin) 
are and always will be a small,  but vocal group & need to consider others less 
entitled in their decision making process. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-03 Thread Justin August 
Patrick-
People of Color represents a more modern or post-modern approach to 
critically examining issues of Whiteness and how it is used to exert 
oppression, dominance and power over folks who lack it. A more off-line 
conversation that I'd love to have if you want to.

I found for myself that I had to stop identifying as a bike commuter many 
years ago as I got into a heated blog-comment war with the writers and 
commenters on Commute By Bike or BikeCommuters or some such blog when I 
brought this up. Their approach was that cyclists "make a choice" or "care 
about their bike" or somesuch thing that was intentionally excluding those 
folks who didn't look like, sound like and ride like themselves. This 
exclusionary principle is rooted in an idea of "othering" those who you 
don't want to be associated with.

The conversation around the prices of objects reminds me of this post I 
found on PutThisOn recently about the price of a $100 sneake 

r.

On a pair of $100 running shoes, Solereview estimates Nike is profiting ~$5 
per sale. $22 goes to producing the sneakers, then another $23 for 
shipping, marketing, and miscellaneous overhead. That leaves about a 10% 
profit on a $50 wholesale price for Nike. 

And the retailer? Ostensibly, there’s a $50 profit margin, but once you 
account for business expenses and discounts, they only do a little better 
at $6 per sale (largely because they’re giving up 25% off-the-bat for 
markdowns). On the Adidas side, margins are even thinner. 

Lesson: it’s hard to make money selling $100-200 sneakers made abroad. 

I don't know how to lower the cost of commodities and keep people buying 
and producing them adequately compensated. It seems like a lose/win or 
win/lose situation no matter what in our current system.

-Justin
On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 7:57:44 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I've lived in ABQ for over 27 years, and I've looked behind many 
> restaurants and been out on the streets very often before 8 am, and no, 
> around here you don't see many Hispanics (because that's who we are talking 
> about) riding bikes to work. Most of the local riders-by-need, as opposed 
> to the local riders-by-choice, are working teenagers, or college students, 
> and the working teens very soon seem to graduate to automobiles -- at 
> least, you see very few working class adults of any race riding bikes to 
> work. The other ride-by-need group are down and outers, but they are an 
> exception: most seem to prefer to walk -- they gather on 4th street just 
> south of I-40, a route I often drive. 
>
> (Note: the local Hispanics are of two groups: those whose families came up 
> from Mexico in the 17th and 18th centuries, who are the majority, and 
> recent immigrants, most of whom are from countries south of Mexico. There 
> is a big distinction here, at least in the minds of the first group.)
>
> I daresay that in LA, for example, things may be different, with recent 
> immigrants from impoverished backgrounds arriving in a much more expensive 
> economy. But here, at any rate, as I said, most cyclists are middle class 
> riders who ride because (apparently) they want to ride.
>
> "People of color" seems to me to be a condescending cop-out. Northern 
> Europeans are colored -- a sort of pale reddish white. I prefer the terms 
> Black, Hispanic, Asian, White, and so forth.
>
> Speaking of "ethnics" on bikes -- condescending term; "ethnic" to whom? -- 
> this is very interesting:
>
> http://www.thursdaybicycles.com/bicycle_frames/sheep_herding.html
>
> The backstory:
>
> http://www.63xc.com/thursday/muttonmaster.htm
>
> This is set in an area I lived in or near for 4-5 years. Now there's an 
> ethnic bike!
>
> Patrick Moore, whose mixed-race heritage (my mother came from the group 
> whom William Howard Taft called "our little brown brothers")and years of 
> living in Asia and Africa make him rather immune to certain modern 
> anxieties or pieties.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 8:38 AM, masmojo  > wrote:
>
>> Well, maybe in New Mexico the commuters are white, middle class or 
>> whatever. I don't live there so I won't second guess you, but I seriously 
>> doubt it's any different than here.
>> I will say that white middle class commuters are probably more visible.  
>> You don't see the others,  because by the time you are going to work their 
>> bikes are already parked @ their job. Today on my way to work I noticed two 
>> dept. store bikes parked @ a construction site and 2 more parked at the On 
>> the Border restaurant just down the street.  If you want to see the REAL 
>> commuters you have to be out around 7 in the morning or 8 at night! 
>> Otherwise,  just take a look behind your favorite restaurant the next time 
>> you are out!
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group a

Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-03 Thread Patrick Moore 
I've lived in ABQ for over 27 years, and I've looked behind many
restaurants and been out on the streets very often before 8 am, and no,
around here you don't see many Hispanics (because that's who we are talking
about) riding bikes to work. Most of the local riders-by-need, as opposed
to the local riders-by-choice, are working teenagers, or college students,
and the working teens very soon seem to graduate to automobiles -- at
least, you see very few working class adults of any race riding bikes to
work. The other ride-by-need group are down and outers, but they are an
exception: most seem to prefer to walk -- they gather on 4th street just
south of I-40, a route I often drive.

(Note: the local Hispanics are of two groups: those whose families came up
from Mexico in the 17th and 18th centuries, who are the majority, and
recent immigrants, most of whom are from countries south of Mexico. There
is a big distinction here, at least in the minds of the first group.)

I daresay that in LA, for example, things may be different, with recent
immigrants from impoverished backgrounds arriving in a much more expensive
economy. But here, at any rate, as I said, most cyclists are middle class
riders who ride because (apparently) they want to ride.

"People of color" seems to me to be a condescending cop-out. Northern
Europeans are colored -- a sort of pale reddish white. I prefer the terms
Black, Hispanic, Asian, White, and so forth.

Speaking of "ethnics" on bikes -- condescending term; "ethnic" to whom? --
this is very interesting:

http://www.thursdaybicycles.com/bicycle_frames/sheep_herding.html

The backstory:

http://www.63xc.com/thursday/muttonmaster.htm

This is set in an area I lived in or near for 4-5 years. Now there's an
ethnic bike!

Patrick Moore, whose mixed-race heritage (my mother came from the group
whom William Howard Taft called "our little brown brothers")and years of
living in Asia and Africa make him rather immune to certain modern
anxieties or pieties.


On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 8:38 AM, masmojo  wrote:

> Well, maybe in New Mexico the commuters are white, middle class or
> whatever. I don't live there so I won't second guess you, but I seriously
> doubt it's any different than here.
> I will say that white middle class commuters are probably more visible.
> You don't see the others,  because by the time you are going to work their
> bikes are already parked @ their job. Today on my way to work I noticed two
> dept. store bikes parked @ a construction site and 2 more parked at the On
> the Border restaurant just down the street.  If you want to see the REAL
> commuters you have to be out around 7 in the morning or 8 at night!
> Otherwise,  just take a look behind your favorite restaurant the next time
> you are out!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-03 Thread masmojo 
Well, maybe in New Mexico the commuters are white, middle class or whatever. I 
don't live there so I won't second guess you, but I seriously doubt it's any 
different than here. 
I will say that white middle class commuters are probably more visible.  You 
don't see the others,  because by the time you are going to work their bikes 
are already parked @ their job. Today on my way to work I noticed two dept. 
store bikes parked @ a construction site and 2 more parked at the On the Border 
restaurant just down the street.  If you want to see the REAL commuters you 
have to be out around 7 in the morning or 8 at night! Otherwise,  just take a 
look behind your favorite restaurant the next time you are out!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-02 Thread Patrick Moore 
This is something of a Segway, but pertinent to the thread.

I'm puzzled by the angst expressed over the state of the bicycle
marketplace Perhaps it is different where others live, but  here in ABQ,
NM, which I daresay has considerably more bike shops per capita than other
places, it is very clear that (1) the good shops are thriving and (2) that
different shops have very different ways of being "good" ones, and (3) that
there is a far, far greater choice locally for all kinds of riders today
than there was 10 or 15 years ago. For $400 to $800 today -- roughly $140
and $275 in 1980 dollars, per the BLS -- there is a very wide choice of
decent bikes, and today's $400 bike is far better than 1980's $140 bike.

The 4 well established shops nearest me have all expanded in the last few
years, and the 3 I know personally have thrived by service as much as the
range of inventory.

Certainly in this city, the LBS market is hardly failing, or falling into a
schism between discount online sales and bricks/mortar focus on the high
end roadie market.

And, FWIW, most of the "people of color" around here drive SUVs or pickup
trucks, even if old ones, while most commuters are middle class and
younger; and certainly the Rivendell market is upscale and not down! The
down and outer riding a scavenged mountain bike is very definitely the
exception.

Patrick "somewhat colored himself -- yellow and white and a little brown"
Moore

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Evan Baird  wrote:

> [...] The problem is that the traditional LBS model is failing,  [...]
> Shops need to be welcoming community spaces. There's no room for mediocre
> service in this economy.
>
> --


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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-02 Thread Evan Baird 
This is exaclty what I'm talking about. I've always pushed Soma to keep their 
web pricing comparable to brick and mortar, but as more and more people sign up 
for Amazon Prime it's really a race to the bottom. Any publiclly held bike 
company that doesnt offer direct sales is going to get an earful when Canyon 
starts moving big numbers. And even if brand try to enforce MAP that doesnt 
prevent startups like Casper and Harrys from spinning up buissnesses to compete 
with in product catagory they think they have an edge in.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-02 Thread Brewster Fong 


On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:53:51 AM UTC-7, Evan Baird wrote:
>
> Peter, that's already happening. The problem is that the traditional LBS 
> model is failing, and moat comminities don't have access to coop 
> workspaces. As a "veteran" shop rat, I have a dewp affection for the LBS 
> and the culture surrounding it, but I've also seen first hand how the 
> chevanism, zenophobia and elitism that people encounter in many shops can 
> turn them away from the "sport". Those of us who are deciples of Sheldon 
> will get along regardless, but the average dealer isn't going to be able to 
> compete with ecommerce. If the industry insists of pushing products that 
> are increasingly not user servicable we're going to see a lot more Circut 
> Cities and Comp USAs in the bike world. Shops need to be welcoming 
> community spaces. There'sno room for mediocre service in this economy.


This is really good advice. However, things are going to get worst and/or 
harder for the LBS. OK, people here aren't into the "racing" bike 
thing. But, many shops who cater to those folks  are about to get a rude 
awakening as another new business model is going to be launched!  

*Canyon * bikes, established in 
2001 and headquartered in Koblenz, Germany. has  adopted an internet based 
direct sales strategy, effectively cutting out the ‘middle man’, allowing 
Canyon to build bikes that represent exceptionally good value.  I have at 
least one friend who has the latest in bikes - 2016 Trek Domane SLR with 
Sram Etap wireless shifting - can't get any fancier than that! - is 
drooling over the soon to be Sram Etap wireless with hydraulic brakes and 
has already stated that his new bike will be a Canyon SLX with Sram Etap 
hydro disc brakes!  

In his case, he has a nephew who is a "Trek U" trained mechanic who 
services his bikes. He basically ignores LBSs, even thou we have some very 
good ones in the SF Bay Area and only orders things online. For him, the 
Canyon is the most logical and really only way to go.  

Now, you may say, yeah that's one guy. But there are literally hundreds, if 
not thousands of guys like this. 

Personally, I prefer to give my business to my LBS. He is fine with me 
bringing in my own parts and only charges me labor for his time spent on my 
bikes. He's been in business for over 40 years. He's had his shares of ups 
and downs and more than once has said his accountant told him that he could 
make much more money doing anything else. But his love for cycling is 
second to none and he just happens to be one of the best mechanics 
around. If I'm not doing the work myself, I go to him or another one-man 
shop to help keep these guys in business. I also recommend my LBS to 
everyone  especially for fitting. It's hard to be a LBSGood Luck!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-02 Thread masmojo 
Evan , I especially like what you are saying and you are SO right! It's guys 
like me that are the loudest voices on the Internet.  Guys who can afford to 
ride Rivendells, have multiple bikes and live in nice houses/communities. The 
difference between me and a lot of people is I worry/think about people other 
than myself (@ least I try to) I fully understand that the people who benefit 
most from bicycle advocacy are the people least likely to ask for it or even 
know that there is such a thing!
I am keenly aware of my non English speaking cycling brothers or even more 
crucially maybe, the large number of mentally ill or mentally challenged who 
ride bikes not necessarily because they want to, but because they cannot get a 
drivers license! We lock our bikes up together,  we critique each others rigs, 
we look out for one another.
I can't tell you how often I complain about what is a nuisance for me in 
getting from point A to point B, then I think "OK, if this is difficult for me 
the semi-serious cyclists on fairly sophisticated equipment,  I can't imagine 
what it's like for Pablo (just to give him a name) on his Walmart bike in the 
rain!
Our local bike infrastructure gang are busy promoting recreational bike paths 
as a quality if life enhancement (like the health club) when what we need is to 
make it easy for everyone to just go where they need/want to go on a bike. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-02 Thread Evan Baird 
Peter, that's already happening. The problem is that the traditional LBS model 
is failing, and moat comminities don't have access to coop workspaces. As a 
"veteran" shop rat, I have a dewp affection for the LBS and the culture 
surrounding it, but I've also seen first hand how the chevanism, zenophobia and 
elitism that people encounter in many shops can turn them away from the 
"sport". Those of us who are deciples of Sheldon will get along regardless, but 
the average dealer isn't going to be able to compete with ecommerce. If the 
industry insists of pushing products that are increasingly not user servicable 
we're going to see a lot more Circut Cities and Comp USAs in the bike world. 
Shops need to be welcoming community spaces. There'sno room for mediocre 
service in this economy.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-06-02 Thread Peter White 
OK. Let's "forcefully shift the narrative." Why don't those who use cargo
bikes and e-bikes and upright bikes start businesses selling and servicing
them? I don't use a cargo bike myself, and so have no familiarity with
them. I don't know the 'ins and outs" so to speak. So while having been a
low to mid level bike racer in the 1970s I was competent to advise other
racers on bike fit, gearing and other matters, I would be loath to offer
advice on what makes a good e-bike or cargo bike. When I started my
business in the basement of my rented house on a shoestring budget, I stuck
to what I knew. I humbly suggest that others do the same.

PJW

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:45 PM, Evan Baird  wrote:

> Regardless of whether Bobbishness is a movement already, it needs to
> become one if we want to grow the cycling community. The bicycle advocacy
> world is primarily funded by lycra wearing, charity rider types (primarily
> white dudes if we're going by the numbers). This is a huge problem,
> especially since the vast majority of potential transportation cyclists are
> low income people of color, many of which primarily speak languages other
> than English and don't participate in the "bike community'. That means that
> the policies that affect transportation cyclists are frequently being
> decided by people who don't really understand the needs of road users that
> don't fit their idea of "cyclists". I'm not suggesting a bike industry
> conspiracy, but rather a confirmation bias that makes bicycles less
> accessible. Part of making cycling accessible is embracing riders who don't
> fall into the typical bike shop genres, and very probably won't ever step
> foot into one due to the condescending, profit driven mentality of the bike
> industry. As long as bike shops are the primary point of contact for new
> cyclists, we need to forcefully shift the narrative towards a culture that
> embraces cargo bikes, and ebikes and adaptive bikes and upright bikes. It's
> not academic. If we want safe roads, and bicycle facilities there needs to
> be real money to back up our demands. The auto and oil industries spend
> upwards of 50 million dollars a year to push pro driving policies.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-04-25 Thread masmojo 
Regarding the shower,  it's a nice luxury,  but not a deal killer for me. I 
commuted by bike for many years in Texas (Austin, Houston, Dallas) when I did 
not have a car or even when I did. I agree that a good plan is to be able to 
arrive early & give yourself time to cool down.  Speaking for myself without 
this cool down period a shower is almost pointless,  my heart rate stays 
elevated for another 15 or 20 minutes,  so if I jump in the shower it does no 
good, because I will continue to sweat afterwards.  I just try to cool down,  a 
big fan or air vent is handy,  towel off and fresh clothes.  
BO? Well it can be a problem,  but it depends a little on your job, if you work 
sales @ Brooks Bothers then maybe bike commuting for more than a short distance 
is not a good choice.  I work in office cube land on a computer/phone so if I 
don't smell like a daisy it's ok as long as I don't reek! Generally,  the 
bacteria that causes odor takes many hours to start getting stinky,  but beware 
of your chair, because if you are sweaty & sit in it all day it can get bad 
Also, I believe that many toxins and impurities are exhausted through sweat & 
the pores that is why a towel is so important! Good news is that riding 
frequently tends to help minimize this problem. 
I find that if you leave early morning,  even here in Texas you can minimize 
getting too hot or sweaty and also there's less traffic to deal with.  I get to 
work early and leave early,  many times taking a more scenic route home and not 
worrying about getting sweaty or whatever,  because I can cool down, relax & 
shower at home. 
You experience may differ! ;-)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-04-25 Thread BenG 
I share a locker room with bradley (round) sinks and a floor fan, no showers. 
Muggy mornings arrive early, take off sweaty cotton, put on dry merino and 
cotton, then douse head in sink, towel off. That slows the sweat. Factory temp 
is 90+ when outside is 90+, so not the last sweat I see that day, but at least 
I am in the shade. I am hotter working than riding, for sure.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-04-24 Thread ascpgh 
My commute is neither as long as any mentioned nor makes a shower 
requisite...I agree with Patrick Moore's cool off plan and that it is fun. 

If I start my day (before sunrise) that way, and I end it (after sunset) 
the same way, there is no outcome other than another good day in the books. 
No matter how hairy or trying things were. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 2:16:09 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> +1 for fun! My utility riding is strictly for fun. 
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Michael Hechmer  > wrote:
>
>> Yes Garth.  I'm retired now but did a round trip 30 mile commute for 13 
>> years (and yes I did shower after my final mile plus of 10%+ grade.)  I was 
>> once invited to do a radio promo for bike commuting, but as the interview 
>> went on and I repeatedly answered no I don't ride to save gas, loose 
>> weight, or strengthen my heart; I ride because its fun; they decided not to 
>> air the promo.   Apparently they thought people would continue bicycle 
>> commuting even if it wasn't fun.  Not likely.
>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-04-24 Thread Patrick Moore 
+1 for fun! My utility riding is strictly for fun.

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Michael Hechmer 
wrote:

> Yes Garth.  I'm retired now but did a round trip 30 mile commute for 13
> years (and yes I did shower after my final mile plus of 10%+ grade.)  I was
> once invited to do a radio promo for bike commuting, but as the interview
> went on and I repeatedly answered no I don't ride to save gas, loose
> weight, or strengthen my heart; I ride because its fun; they decided not to
> air the promo.   Apparently they thought people would continue bicycle
> commuting even if it wasn't fun.  Not likely.
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

2016-04-24 Thread Patrick Moore 
I used to commute 15-20 miles each way across town and, even in our high
desert climate, I sweated enormously in hot weather. But I got by quite
well without showers. I'd start with a shower at home, and when I got to
work, I'd cool off before a big fan, then wipe down with rubbing alcohol.

Sweat itself has no odor -- at least, exercise sweat; and showering before
leaving basically kept the bacteria sufficiently at bay that I didn't have
to worry about BO.

For me, the worst thing was cooling off -- I rode hard enough to really get
warm. But that aside, I think I'd prefer my method, since it takes much
less time at the arrival end.

I kept clothing and shoes at the office.

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 10:01 AM, Julian  wrote:

> Location is key!
>
> Having spent a decade in SW CO a few decades ago, growing up in the Mid
> Atlantic, and currently lining in central IL I can attest to that!
>
> I do miss those cool, low humidity summer mornings in SW CO!
>
> In my current locale we've got lots of humidity and that does make summer
> commutes a bit damp. I bring a change of clothes and towel off in the
> restroom -- occasionally getting startled reactions. A shower facility
> would be grand!
>
> Great that your workplace is putting in facilities -- even in your cool,
> low humidity location, because that concern is in the top 3 or so from
> folks I talk to about commuting -- it might get more on bikes.
>
>

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