Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-08 Thread Patrick Moore 
Thanks for the details. We'll see if Vaughn can do anything for those
Kojaks.if not, its back to Elk Passes with tubes (these remain on my
gofast).

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Tim Gavin 
wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> What sealant did you use? (Should have asked this with the earlier email.)
>>
>
> Stan's.  I've heard good things about Orange Seal, but I hate the orange
> stains it leaves (especially on skinwall tires).
>
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*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-08 Thread Tim Gavin 
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> What sealant did you use? (Should have asked this with the earlier email.)
>

Stan's.  I've heard good things about Orange Seal, but I hate the orange
stains it leaves (especially on skinwall tires).

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-08 Thread Patrick Moore 
What sealant did you use? (Should have asked this with the earlier email.)

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Tim Gavin 
wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Tim -- wouldn't the sealant eventually form a "skin" inside the Pari
>> Motos, and seal the tape seams?
>>
>>
> I wish it did!  But, 6 weeks in to the tubeless experiment, I still had to
> pump up the tires every hour or so, and froth would result from the
> sidewalls.  After all that frustration -- and two falls due to low pressure
> -- I gave up on running the Pari-Motos tubeless.
>
> I tried tubeless because:
> * I had tons of flats with the previous tires (Lierres), and I got a flat
> within the first 50 miles of the Pari Motos with tubes.
> * The PL23 rims are tubeless-ready
>
> What's funny is that since got a new set of Pari-Motos and ran them with
> tubes, I've had zero flats in ~1000 miles.  I did put some sealant in the
> tubes to be safe, but I've had no punctures to test it (I'm OK with that).
>
>
> On my fat tires, the tape was heavy .014 mil vinyl and it had some
> wrinkles upon application (too heavy to lay down completely smooth).  The
> sealant worked its way into those wrinkles and wet the adhesive enough to
> keep the channels open.  I'd get sealant leaks up through the rim holes.
>
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*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-08 Thread Tim Gavin 
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Tim -- wouldn't the sealant eventually form a "skin" inside the Pari
> Motos, and seal the tape seams?
>
>
I wish it did!  But, 6 weeks in to the tubeless experiment, I still had to
pump up the tires every hour or so, and froth would result from the
sidewalls.  After all that frustration -- and two falls due to low pressure
-- I gave up on running the Pari-Motos tubeless.

I tried tubeless because:
* I had tons of flats with the previous tires (Lierres), and I got a flat
within the first 50 miles of the Pari Motos with tubes.
* The PL23 rims are tubeless-ready

What's funny is that since got a new set of Pari-Motos and ran them with
tubes, I've had zero flats in ~1000 miles.  I did put some sealant in the
tubes to be safe, but I've had no punctures to test it (I'm OK with that).


On my fat tires, the tape was heavy .014 mil vinyl and it had some wrinkles
upon application (too heavy to lay down completely smooth).  The sealant
worked its way into those wrinkles and wet the adhesive enough to keep the
channels open.  I'd get sealant leaks up through the rim holes.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-08 Thread Patrick Moore 
Tim -- wouldn't the sealant eventually form a "skin" inside the Pari Motos,
and seal the tape seams?

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Tim Gavin 
wrote:

> My tubeless experience:
>
> Non-tubeless-ready Pari Moto tires on tubeless-ready Pacenti PL23 rims --
> Set up easily (with compressor), but unreliable.  The Pari Moto sidewalls
> are so thin that the sealant and air can seep through.  They'd leak down to
> 25 psi within an hour, as I found out a couple times an hour into my ride!
> The tires stayed in their bead seat when deflated; the PL23 bead works well.
>
> Non-tubeless-ready Ground Control fat tires on non-tubeless-ready stock
> rims -- Set up was a pain (super wide rim tape required, tedious to lay
> down), but relatively reliable.  Stayed set and held pressure (quite low,
> <10 psi) for a while, but eventually leaks formed as the liquid sealant
> wormed its way through the seams in the tape job.  The tire construction is
> heavier (60 tpi) and I never had sealant leak through.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I know that this is something to be aware of, and perhaps, in certain
>> circumstances, to be afraid of, but the man (older -- well, mid '30s --
>> with many years of wrenching) who did my conversion took a quite
>> conservative approach, and I am confident that he would not have proceeded
>> unless the setup was safe. Said fellow refused to convert my Elk Passes
>> onto Sun M14A rims for this very reason -- he installed Stan's tape,
>> installed the EPs, pumped them up, and shoved the wheel into my hand. He
>> said, in effect, taka lookat this. I did; and just a wee bit of thumb
>> pressure broke the bead/rim wall seal and the air rushed out. The Kojak
>> bead/rimwall seal was much different.
>>
>> Therefore, I am confident that, as long as I maintain sufficient pressure
>> in the tires, I need not fear "burping" or sudden air loss due to unsealed
>> beads.
>>
>> If that were all involved, I'd be drunk and happy. But my anxiety extends
>> beyond this to niggling matters of daily maintenance: I don't want a setup
>> were I have to religiously monitor my air pressure. Or, I might apostasize
>> and accept this situation, but if I do, I'll buy a compressor.
>>
>> Anyway: What I seeks is a tubeless setup that not only is safe, but a
>> setup where the mechanical interaction of bead and rim wall, aided by
>> sealant, is sufficient to keep the bead securely in place, be the air
>> pressure what it may. That is, a mechanical interface that provides an
>> airtight seal even if the pressure in the tire is reduced to ambient
>> pressure.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>>
>>> I've talked to (online, anyway) a tandem captain who had that happen.
>>>
>>> On 11/07/2015 07:07 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> O Gawd. Talk to the 2 experienced mechanics about the likelihood of that
>>> happening.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Steve Palincsar 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm pretty sure no experienced mechanic would be in favor of having a
 tire come entirely off the rim on a fast downhill after a puncture, or
 would think that a good  learning experience.

 On 11/07/2015 05:25 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

 You opinion against that of 2 very experienced mechanics.

 The downside I see is rather the need to continually monitor the tire
 pressure, as it seems to be air pressure alone, and not bead-to-wall
 interaction, that keeps the bead where it should be.

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Steve Palincsar < 
 [email protected]> wrote:

>
> On 11/07/2015 04:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since late 1970 --
>> this after several years already of modifying bikes -- and over the years
>> I've very often found myself learning the very hard way.
>>
>
> I think in this case "learning the very hard way" would most likely
> involve a puncture on a fast downhill and the tire coming entirely off the
> rim, and I'm pretty sure you really wouldn't want to learn anything that
> way.
>
>

>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to [email protected].
>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
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>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-08 Thread Tim Gavin 
My tubeless experience:

Non-tubeless-ready Pari Moto tires on tubeless-ready Pacenti PL23 rims --
Set up easily (with compressor), but unreliable.  The Pari Moto sidewalls
are so thin that the sealant and air can seep through.  They'd leak down to
25 psi within an hour, as I found out a couple times an hour into my ride!
The tires stayed in their bead seat when deflated; the PL23 bead works well.

Non-tubeless-ready Ground Control fat tires on non-tubeless-ready stock
rims -- Set up was a pain (super wide rim tape required, tedious to lay
down), but relatively reliable.  Stayed set and held pressure (quite low,
<10 psi) for a while, but eventually leaks formed as the liquid sealant
wormed its way through the seams in the tape job.  The tire construction is
heavier (60 tpi) and I never had sealant leak through.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I know that this is something to be aware of, and perhaps, in certain
> circumstances, to be afraid of, but the man (older -- well, mid '30s --
> with many years of wrenching) who did my conversion took a quite
> conservative approach, and I am confident that he would not have proceeded
> unless the setup was safe. Said fellow refused to convert my Elk Passes
> onto Sun M14A rims for this very reason -- he installed Stan's tape,
> installed the EPs, pumped them up, and shoved the wheel into my hand. He
> said, in effect, taka lookat this. I did; and just a wee bit of thumb
> pressure broke the bead/rim wall seal and the air rushed out. The Kojak
> bead/rimwall seal was much different.
>
> Therefore, I am confident that, as long as I maintain sufficient pressure
> in the tires, I need not fear "burping" or sudden air loss due to unsealed
> beads.
>
> If that were all involved, I'd be drunk and happy. But my anxiety extends
> beyond this to niggling matters of daily maintenance: I don't want a setup
> were I have to religiously monitor my air pressure. Or, I might apostasize
> and accept this situation, but if I do, I'll buy a compressor.
>
> Anyway: What I seeks is a tubeless setup that not only is safe, but a
> setup where the mechanical interaction of bead and rim wall, aided by
> sealant, is sufficient to keep the bead securely in place, be the air
> pressure what it may. That is, a mechanical interface that provides an
> airtight seal even if the pressure in the tire is reduced to ambient
> pressure.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>> I've talked to (online, anyway) a tandem captain who had that happen.
>>
>> On 11/07/2015 07:07 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> O Gawd. Talk to the 2 experienced mechanics about the likelihood of that
>> happening.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm pretty sure no experienced mechanic would be in favor of having a
>>> tire come entirely off the rim on a fast downhill after a puncture, or
>>> would think that a good  learning experience.
>>>
>>> On 11/07/2015 05:25 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> You opinion against that of 2 very experienced mechanics.
>>>
>>> The downside I see is rather the need to continually monitor the tire
>>> pressure, as it seems to be air pressure alone, and not bead-to-wall
>>> interaction, that keeps the bead where it should be.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Steve Palincsar < 
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>

 On 11/07/2015 04:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

> Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since late 1970 --
> this after several years already of modifying bikes -- and over the years
> I've very often found myself learning the very hard way.
>

 I think in this case "learning the very hard way" would most likely
 involve a puncture on a fast downhill and the tire coming entirely off the
 rim, and I'm pretty sure you really wouldn't want to learn anything that
 way.


>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [email protected].
>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>
>
> --
> You received this me

Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
I know that this is something to be aware of, and perhaps, in certain
circumstances, to be afraid of, but the man (older -- well, mid '30s --
with many years of wrenching) who did my conversion took a quite
conservative approach, and I am confident that he would not have proceeded
unless the setup was safe. Said fellow refused to convert my Elk Passes
onto Sun M14A rims for this very reason -- he installed Stan's tape,
installed the EPs, pumped them up, and shoved the wheel into my hand. He
said, in effect, taka lookat this. I did; and just a wee bit of thumb
pressure broke the bead/rim wall seal and the air rushed out. The Kojak
bead/rimwall seal was much different.

Therefore, I am confident that, as long as I maintain sufficient pressure
in the tires, I need not fear "burping" or sudden air loss due to unsealed
beads.

If that were all involved, I'd be drunk and happy. But my anxiety extends
beyond this to niggling matters of daily maintenance: I don't want a setup
were I have to religiously monitor my air pressure. Or, I might apostasize
and accept this situation, but if I do, I'll buy a compressor.

Anyway: What I seeks is a tubeless setup that not only is safe, but a setup
where the mechanical interaction of bead and rim wall, aided by sealant, is
sufficient to keep the bead securely in place, be the air pressure what it
may. That is, a mechanical interface that provides an airtight seal even if
the pressure in the tire is reduced to ambient pressure.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> I've talked to (online, anyway) a tandem captain who had that happen.
>
> On 11/07/2015 07:07 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> O Gawd. Talk to the 2 experienced mechanics about the likelihood of that
> happening.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure no experienced mechanic would be in favor of having a
>> tire come entirely off the rim on a fast downhill after a puncture, or
>> would think that a good  learning experience.
>>
>> On 11/07/2015 05:25 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> You opinion against that of 2 very experienced mechanics.
>>
>> The downside I see is rather the need to continually monitor the tire
>> pressure, as it seems to be air pressure alone, and not bead-to-wall
>> interaction, that keeps the bead where it should be.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Steve Palincsar < 
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 11/07/2015 04:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since late 1970 -- this
 after several years already of modifying bikes -- and over the years I've
 very often found myself learning the very hard way.

>>>
>>> I think in this case "learning the very hard way" would most likely
>>> involve a puncture on a fast downhill and the tire coming entirely off the
>>> rim, and I'm pretty sure you really wouldn't want to learn anything that
>>> way.
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [email protected].
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



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Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Steve Palincsar 

I've talked to (online, anyway) a tandem captain who had that happen.

On 11/07/2015 07:07 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
O Gawd. Talk to the 2 experienced mechanics about the likelihood of 
that happening.


On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Steve Palincsar > wrote:


I'm pretty sure no experienced mechanic would be in favor of
having a tire come entirely off the rim on a fast downhill after a
puncture, or would think that a good  learning experience.

On 11/07/2015 05:25 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

You opinion against that of 2 very experienced mechanics.

The downside I see is rather the need to continually monitor the
tire pressure, as it seems to be air pressure alone, and not
bead-to-wall interaction, that keeps the bead where it should be.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Steve Palincsar mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


On 11/07/2015 04:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since
late 1970 -- this after several years already of
modifying bikes -- and over the years I've very often
found myself learning the very hard way.


I think in this case "learning the very hard way" would most
likely involve a puncture on a fast downhill and the tire
coming entirely off the rim, and I'm pretty sure you really
wouldn't want to learn anything that way.





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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
O Gawd. Talk to the 2 experienced mechanics about the likelihood of that
happening.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> I'm pretty sure no experienced mechanic would be in favor of having a tire
> come entirely off the rim on a fast downhill after a puncture, or would
> think that a good  learning experience.
>
> On 11/07/2015 05:25 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> You opinion against that of 2 very experienced mechanics.
>
> The downside I see is rather the need to continually monitor the tire
> pressure, as it seems to be air pressure alone, and not bead-to-wall
> interaction, that keeps the bead where it should be.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 11/07/2015 04:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since late 1970 -- this
>>> after several years already of modifying bikes -- and over the years I've
>>> very often found myself learning the very hard way.
>>>
>>
>> I think in this case "learning the very hard way" would most likely
>> involve a puncture on a fast downhill and the tire coming entirely off the
>> rim, and I'm pretty sure you really wouldn't want to learn anything that
>> way.
>>
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [email protected].
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



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Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Steve Palincsar 
I'm pretty sure no experienced mechanic would be in favor of having a 
tire come entirely off the rim on a fast downhill after a puncture, or 
would think that a good  learning experience.


On 11/07/2015 05:25 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

You opinion against that of 2 very experienced mechanics.

The downside I see is rather the need to continually monitor the tire 
pressure, as it seems to be air pressure alone, and not bead-to-wall 
interaction, that keeps the bead where it should be.


On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Steve Palincsar > wrote:



On 11/07/2015 04:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since late
1970 -- this after several years already of modifying bikes --
and over the years I've very often found myself learning the
very hard way.


I think in this case "learning the very hard way" would most
likely involve a puncture on a fast downhill and the tire coming
entirely off the rim, and I'm pretty sure you really wouldn't want
to learn anything that way.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
A compressor would be much simpler. But either method fails to solve my
problem, which is that I don't want to have to monitor tire pressure all
the time. IOW, I want the bead and the wall (with the help of sealant of
course) to take care of sealing by themselves, even when the tire has no
air pressure within to hold the bead in place; as with the FF's on the
Velocity Blunts.

My one last hope is that building up the well a bit more will allow a
tighter bead/wall connection.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:03 PM, dougP  wrote:

> From installing auto tires on rims many years ago, I recall we used a
> strap or belt that wrapped around the OD of the tire, at the center, &
> itself was inflatable.  Pumping up this belt squeezed the OD of the tire
> such that the bead was forced out against the rim to make seal when the
> tire was inflated. Pump it up a bit, deflate the belt, then pump to desired
> pressure.
>
> I'm thinking maybe string together several Irish straps around the OD of
> the tire & cinch it down to push the bead up against the rim.  Pump it up
> enough to hold the bead tight, then release the strap buckle to allow
> proper inflation.  Just a guess on my part whether this would work.
> Probably some other strappage would do was well.
>
> dougP
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 7:46:45 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Posting this also to the iBob list.
>>
>> I recently had (folding) 559 X 32 mm Kojaks converted to the tubeless
>> system on tubeless ready Sun/Ringle EQ 21 rims by an experienced mechanic.
>> They ride wonderfully and I've experienced no problems except this one:
>>
>> When a tire fully deflates, as the front did recently, doubtless because
>> of a slow leak, the beads pull away from the rim, making it impossible to
>> reinflate them with a floor pump, let alone a frame pump.
>>
>> I think that the Kojaks are not "tubeless ready" though 2 experienced
>> mechanics said that they are "tubeless compatible." In contrast, the
>> Furious Freds, tubeless ready on rims designed for tubeless tires, often
>> deflate fully from slow leaks or because I remove the valve cores to insert
>> more sealant; yet the beads remain in place.
>>
>> Does my experience mean that I'd better give up on tubeless-i-fying the
>> Kojaks? Or that I should build up the rim bed a bit higher?
>>
>> The Kojaks seemed to ride noticeably smoother, and perhaps faster,
>> without tubes than they do with tubes.
>>
>> All help welcome. Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>> *
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
>> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>
>>
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*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
You opinion against that of 2 very experienced mechanics.

The downside I see is rather the need to continually monitor the tire
pressure, as it seems to be air pressure alone, and not bead-to-wall
interaction, that keeps the bead where it should be.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
> On 11/07/2015 04:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since late 1970 -- this
>> after several years already of modifying bikes -- and over the years I've
>> very often found myself learning the very hard way.
>>
>
> I think in this case "learning the very hard way" would most likely
> involve a puncture on a fast downhill and the tire coming entirely off the
> rim, and I'm pretty sure you really wouldn't want to learn anything that
> way.
>
>
>
> --
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>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Steve Palincsar 


On 11/07/2015 04:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since late 1970 -- 
this after several years already of modifying bikes -- and over the 
years I've very often found myself learning the very hard way.


I think in this case "learning the very hard way" would most likely 
involve a puncture on a fast downhill and the tire coming entirely off 
the rim, and I'm pretty sure you really wouldn't want to learn anything 
that way.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
Interesting experience! I've built my own bikes since late 1970 -- this
after several years already of modifying bikes -- and over the years I've
very often found myself learning the very hard way. Examples: You mean not
all calipers work on all frames with all wheels? You mean that the same
122.5 mm bb spindle doesn't work with Grafton cranks the way it works with
original Deore or Specialized? You mean that the lockring for a 11 -23
cassette is different from that for a 14-32?? You mean that there is a
difference between JIS headsets and whathehelltheotherthingis? You mean
that there is a difference between Swiss and French bb shell threading?

For a while now I've thought I've reached that plateau of wizdum where, at
least for my preferred technologies, but this recent clusterfuck with tire
swapping (tires; fenders; clearances; tubeless) has me back at the end of
the queue!

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> These subtle distinctions are slowly becoming more clear to me!
>
> I may have some very nice folding 559X1.35" Kojaks, one pair NIP, the
> other with <200 miles, for sale soon. We'll see what Vaughn says.
>
> For the Race Lite: I think that the Maxis tires I've ordered are designed
> for tubeless, so I hope they work well on the DT rims. I know that Vaughn
> got the Furious Freds to work fine on distinctly non-tubeless SnoCat SLs.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Jim M.  wrote:
>
>> My experience has been that if you use a tubeless ready rim with a
>> "probably works" tire, you'll be ok. And if you use a tubeless ready tire
>> with a "probably works" rim, you'll be ok. When I've tried to use
>> a "probably works" rim with a "probably works" tire, I've had problems like
>> you're having.
>>
>> jim m
>> wc ca
>>
>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 11:03:20 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> I spoke without thinking sufficiently. What I recall is reading
>>> somewhere that someone used the EQ 21s for tubeless setups, not official
>>> affirmation that they are indeed designed for tubeless use.
>>>
>>> So, thinking back on the way that the Kojaks' beads behave on these
>>> rims, and how the Furious Freds (designed for tubeless setup) behave on the
>>> tubeless designed Velocity Blunts, I realize I've learned something about
>>> the difference between what you *can* make tubeless, and what is
>>> *designed* to be tubeless.
>>>
>>> Again, we'll see if Vaughn can hack a decrease in the gap between the
>>> difference between the two types of systems.
>>>
>>> Good stuff to learn, since I had plans to convert a couple of other
>>> "ought to work tubeless" rims and tires into tubeless setups ...
>>>
>>> Time to Google compressors at homedepot.com.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
 You explicitly said they are tubeless ready rims.  Who told you they
 were tubeless ready?  Was it a manufacturer statement?  Or was it a shop
 mechanic who has made it work in the past?  Is the cross section on your
 rim different from the cross section I found?

 On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:26:50 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks again. I intend to ask Vaughn if building up the bed, whether
> with Gorilla or Stan's, might keep the bead in place absent air pressure,
> and the stick factor may also be a useful element.
>
> If the Kojaks can't be run tubeless without forethought -- for
> example, having to check the tire every few days for pressure -- then I
> think I'll bail. I want tubeless, yes, but no worries tubeless.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Bill Lindsay 
> wrote:
>
>> and the corollary:  If your Sun Ringle Rims have that shelf, unlike
>> the cross section image that I found, then I absolutely would have
>> attempted tubeless.  For a stickier base tape, a lot of mechanics use a 
>> 1"
>> wide roll of Gorilla Tape.  Some mechanics around here ONLY use Gorilla
>> tape, which shocked me until I found that several mechanics at several
>> shops all agree.
>>
>> Example Vendor
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:15:41 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Just looking at the rim cross-section online, I probably would not
>>> have attempted a straight tubeless conversion.  There's no upper shelf 
>>> for
>>> the tire bead to snap into.
>>>
>>> Here's where I found a view of the rim cross-section:
>>>
>>> Chain Reaction Cycles LINK
>>> 
>>>
>>> Here's the kind of feature I look for before even attempting
>>> tubeless:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
These subtle distinctions are slowly becoming more clear to me!

I may have some very nice folding 559X1.35" Kojaks, one pair NIP, the other
with <200 miles, for sale soon. We'll see what Vaughn says.

For the Race Lite: I think that the Maxis tires I've ordered are designed
for tubeless, so I hope they work well on the DT rims. I know that Vaughn
got the Furious Freds to work fine on distinctly non-tubeless SnoCat SLs.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Jim M.  wrote:

> My experience has been that if you use a tubeless ready rim with a
> "probably works" tire, you'll be ok. And if you use a tubeless ready tire
> with a "probably works" rim, you'll be ok. When I've tried to use
> a "probably works" rim with a "probably works" tire, I've had problems like
> you're having.
>
> jim m
> wc ca
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 11:03:20 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I spoke without thinking sufficiently. What I recall is reading somewhere
>> that someone used the EQ 21s for tubeless setups, not official affirmation
>> that they are indeed designed for tubeless use.
>>
>> So, thinking back on the way that the Kojaks' beads behave on these rims,
>> and how the Furious Freds (designed for tubeless setup) behave on the
>> tubeless designed Velocity Blunts, I realize I've learned something about
>> the difference between what you *can* make tubeless, and what is
>> *designed* to be tubeless.
>>
>> Again, we'll see if Vaughn can hack a decrease in the gap between the
>> difference between the two types of systems.
>>
>> Good stuff to learn, since I had plans to convert a couple of other
>> "ought to work tubeless" rims and tires into tubeless setups ...
>>
>> Time to Google compressors at homedepot.com.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> You explicitly said they are tubeless ready rims.  Who told you they
>>> were tubeless ready?  Was it a manufacturer statement?  Or was it a shop
>>> mechanic who has made it work in the past?  Is the cross section on your
>>> rim different from the cross section I found?
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:26:50 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Thanks again. I intend to ask Vaughn if building up the bed, whether
 with Gorilla or Stan's, might keep the bead in place absent air pressure,
 and the stick factor may also be a useful element.

 If the Kojaks can't be run tubeless without forethought -- for example,
 having to check the tire every few days for pressure -- then I think I'll
 bail. I want tubeless, yes, but no worries tubeless.

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Bill Lindsay 
 wrote:

> and the corollary:  If your Sun Ringle Rims have that shelf, unlike
> the cross section image that I found, then I absolutely would have
> attempted tubeless.  For a stickier base tape, a lot of mechanics use a 1"
> wide roll of Gorilla Tape.  Some mechanics around here ONLY use Gorilla
> tape, which shocked me until I found that several mechanics at several
> shops all agree.
>
> Example Vendor
> 
>
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:15:41 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>
>> Just looking at the rim cross-section online, I probably would not
>> have attempted a straight tubeless conversion.  There's no upper shelf 
>> for
>> the tire bead to snap into.
>>
>> Here's where I found a view of the rim cross-section:
>>
>> Chain Reaction Cycles LINK
>> 
>>
>> Here's the kind of feature I look for before even attempting tubeless:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> That shelf is what you need.  If you want to go without tubes, keep
>> them pumped up, because air pressure is the only thing keeping the tire
>> beads from sliding down that hill inside your rim.  Absolutely bring a 
>> tube
>> for roadside repairs.
>>
>> That's my assessment.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 7:46:45 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Posting this also to the iBob list.
>>>
>>> I recently had (folding) 559 X 32 mm Kojaks converted to the
>>> tubeless system on tubeless ready Sun/Ringle EQ 21 rims by an 
>>> experienced
>>> mechanic. They ride wonderfully and I've experienced no problems except
>>> this one:
>>>
>>> When a tire fully deflates, as the front did recently, doubtless
>>> because of a slow leak, the beads pull away from the rim, making it
>>> impossible to reinflate them with a floor pump, let alone a frame pump.
>>>
>>> I think that the Kojaks are not "tubeless r

Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Jim M. 
My experience has been that if you use a tubeless ready rim with a 
"probably works" tire, you'll be ok. And if you use a tubeless ready tire 
with a "probably works" rim, you'll be ok. When I've tried to use 
a "probably works" rim with a "probably works" tire, I've had problems like 
you're having.

jim m
wc ca

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 11:03:20 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I spoke without thinking sufficiently. What I recall is reading somewhere 
> that someone used the EQ 21s for tubeless setups, not official affirmation 
> that they are indeed designed for tubeless use. 
>
> So, thinking back on the way that the Kojaks' beads behave on these rims, 
> and how the Furious Freds (designed for tubeless setup) behave on the 
> tubeless designed Velocity Blunts, I realize I've learned something about 
> the difference between what you *can* make tubeless, and what is 
> *designed* to be tubeless. 
>
> Again, we'll see if Vaughn can hack a decrease in the gap between the 
> difference between the two types of systems.
>
> Good stuff to learn, since I had plans to convert a couple of other "ought 
> to work tubeless" rims and tires into tubeless setups ...
>
> Time to Google compressors at homedepot.com.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> You explicitly said they are tubeless ready rims.  Who told you they were 
>> tubeless ready?  Was it a manufacturer statement?  Or was it a shop 
>> mechanic who has made it work in the past?  Is the cross section on your 
>> rim different from the cross section I found?  
>>
>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:26:50 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks again. I intend to ask Vaughn if building up the bed, whether 
>>> with Gorilla or Stan's, might keep the bead in place absent air pressure, 
>>> and the stick factor may also be a useful element.
>>>
>>> If the Kojaks can't be run tubeless without forethought -- for example, 
>>> having to check the tire every few days for pressure -- then I think I'll 
>>> bail. I want tubeless, yes, but no worries tubeless.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
 and the corollary:  If your Sun Ringle Rims have that shelf, unlike the 
 cross section image that I found, then I absolutely would have attempted 
 tubeless.  For a stickier base tape, a lot of mechanics use a 1" wide roll 
 of Gorilla Tape.  Some mechanics around here ONLY use Gorilla tape, which 
 shocked me until I found that several mechanics at several shops all 
 agree.  

 Example Vendor 
 


 On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:15:41 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> Just looking at the rim cross-section online, I probably would not 
> have attempted a straight tubeless conversion.  There's no upper shelf 
> for 
> the tire bead to snap into.  
>
> Here's where I found a view of the rim cross-section:
>
> Chain Reaction Cycles LINK 
> 
>
> Here's the kind of feature I look for before even attempting tubeless:
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> That shelf is what you need.  If you want to go without tubes, keep 
> them pumped up, because air pressure is the only thing keeping the tire 
> beads from sliding down that hill inside your rim.  Absolutely bring a 
> tube 
> for roadside repairs.  
>
> That's my assessment.  
>
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 7:46:45 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Posting this also to the iBob list.
>>
>> I recently had (folding) 559 X 32 mm Kojaks converted to the tubeless 
>> system on tubeless ready Sun/Ringle EQ 21 rims by an experienced 
>> mechanic. 
>> They ride wonderfully and I've experienced no problems except this one:
>>
>> When a tire fully deflates, as the front did recently, doubtless 
>> because of a slow leak, the beads pull away from the rim, making it 
>> impossible to reinflate them with a floor pump, let alone a frame pump. 
>>
>> I think that the Kojaks are not "tubeless ready" though 2 experienced 
>> mechanics said that they are "tubeless compatible." In contrast, the 
>> Furious Freds, tubeless ready on rims designed for tubeless tires, often 
>> deflate fully from slow leaks or because I remove the valve cores to 
>> insert 
>> more sealant; yet the beads remain in place.
>>
>> Does my experience mean that I'd better give up on tubeless-i-fying 
>> the Kojaks? Or that I should build up the rim bed a bit higher?
>>
>> The Kojaks seemed to ride noticeably smoother, and perh

Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
I spoke without thinking sufficiently. What I recall is reading somewhere
that someone used the EQ 21s for tubeless setups, not official affirmation
that they are indeed designed for tubeless use.

So, thinking back on the way that the Kojaks' beads behave on these rims,
and how the Furious Freds (designed for tubeless setup) behave on the
tubeless designed Velocity Blunts, I realize I've learned something about
the difference between what you *can* make tubeless, and what is *designed* to
be tubeless.

Again, we'll see if Vaughn can hack a decrease in the gap between the
difference between the two types of systems.

Good stuff to learn, since I had plans to convert a couple of other "ought
to work tubeless" rims and tires into tubeless setups ...

Time to Google compressors at homedepot.com.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> You explicitly said they are tubeless ready rims.  Who told you they were
> tubeless ready?  Was it a manufacturer statement?  Or was it a shop
> mechanic who has made it work in the past?  Is the cross section on your
> rim different from the cross section I found?
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:26:50 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Thanks again. I intend to ask Vaughn if building up the bed, whether with
>> Gorilla or Stan's, might keep the bead in place absent air pressure, and
>> the stick factor may also be a useful element.
>>
>> If the Kojaks can't be run tubeless without forethought -- for example,
>> having to check the tire every few days for pressure -- then I think I'll
>> bail. I want tubeless, yes, but no worries tubeless.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> and the corollary:  If your Sun Ringle Rims have that shelf, unlike the
>>> cross section image that I found, then I absolutely would have attempted
>>> tubeless.  For a stickier base tape, a lot of mechanics use a 1" wide roll
>>> of Gorilla Tape.  Some mechanics around here ONLY use Gorilla tape, which
>>> shocked me until I found that several mechanics at several shops all
>>> agree.
>>>
>>> Example Vendor
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:15:41 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:


 Just looking at the rim cross-section online, I probably would not have
 attempted a straight tubeless conversion.  There's no upper shelf for the
 tire bead to snap into.

 Here's where I found a view of the rim cross-section:

 Chain Reaction Cycles LINK
 

 Here's the kind of feature I look for before even attempting tubeless:




 

 That shelf is what you need.  If you want to go without tubes, keep
 them pumped up, because air pressure is the only thing keeping the tire
 beads from sliding down that hill inside your rim.  Absolutely bring a tube
 for roadside repairs.

 That's my assessment.


 On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 7:46:45 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Posting this also to the iBob list.
>
> I recently had (folding) 559 X 32 mm Kojaks converted to the tubeless
> system on tubeless ready Sun/Ringle EQ 21 rims by an experienced mechanic.
> They ride wonderfully and I've experienced no problems except this one:
>
> When a tire fully deflates, as the front did recently, doubtless
> because of a slow leak, the beads pull away from the rim, making it
> impossible to reinflate them with a floor pump, let alone a frame pump.
>
> I think that the Kojaks are not "tubeless ready" though 2 experienced
> mechanics said that they are "tubeless compatible." In contrast, the
> Furious Freds, tubeless ready on rims designed for tubeless tires, often
> deflate fully from slow leaks or because I remove the valve cores to 
> insert
> more sealant; yet the beads remain in place.
>
> Does my experience mean that I'd better give up on tubeless-i-fying
> the Kojaks? Or that I should build up the rim bed a bit higher?
>
> The Kojaks seemed to ride noticeably smoother, and perhaps faster,
> without tubes than they do with tubes.
>
> All help welcome. Thanks.
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of
> a

Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Bill Lindsay 
You explicitly said they are tubeless ready rims.  Who told you they were 
tubeless ready?  Was it a manufacturer statement?  Or was it a shop 
mechanic who has made it work in the past?  Is the cross section on your 
rim different from the cross section I found?  

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:26:50 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks again. I intend to ask Vaughn if building up the bed, whether with 
> Gorilla or Stan's, might keep the bead in place absent air pressure, and 
> the stick factor may also be a useful element.
>
> If the Kojaks can't be run tubeless without forethought -- for example, 
> having to check the tire every few days for pressure -- then I think I'll 
> bail. I want tubeless, yes, but no worries tubeless.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> and the corollary:  If your Sun Ringle Rims have that shelf, unlike the 
>> cross section image that I found, then I absolutely would have attempted 
>> tubeless.  For a stickier base tape, a lot of mechanics use a 1" wide roll 
>> of Gorilla Tape.  Some mechanics around here ONLY use Gorilla tape, which 
>> shocked me until I found that several mechanics at several shops all 
>> agree.  
>>
>> Example Vendor 
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:15:41 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Just looking at the rim cross-section online, I probably would not have 
>>> attempted a straight tubeless conversion.  There's no upper shelf for the 
>>> tire bead to snap into.  
>>>
>>> Here's where I found a view of the rim cross-section:
>>>
>>> Chain Reaction Cycles LINK 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Here's the kind of feature I look for before even attempting tubeless:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> That shelf is what you need.  If you want to go without tubes, keep them 
>>> pumped up, because air pressure is the only thing keeping the tire beads 
>>> from sliding down that hill inside your rim.  Absolutely bring a tube for 
>>> roadside repairs.  
>>>
>>> That's my assessment.  
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 7:46:45 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Posting this also to the iBob list.

 I recently had (folding) 559 X 32 mm Kojaks converted to the tubeless 
 system on tubeless ready Sun/Ringle EQ 21 rims by an experienced mechanic. 
 They ride wonderfully and I've experienced no problems except this one:

 When a tire fully deflates, as the front did recently, doubtless 
 because of a slow leak, the beads pull away from the rim, making it 
 impossible to reinflate them with a floor pump, let alone a frame pump. 

 I think that the Kojaks are not "tubeless ready" though 2 experienced 
 mechanics said that they are "tubeless compatible." In contrast, the 
 Furious Freds, tubeless ready on rims designed for tubeless tires, often 
 deflate fully from slow leaks or because I remove the valve cores to 
 insert 
 more sealant; yet the beads remain in place.

 Does my experience mean that I'd better give up on tubeless-i-fying the 
 Kojaks? Or that I should build up the rim bed a bit higher?

 The Kojaks seemed to ride noticeably smoother, and perhaps faster, 
 without tubes than they do with tubes.

 All help welcome. Thanks.

 -- 
 Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
 By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
 Other professional writing services.
 http://www.resumespecialties.com/
 www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

 *
 *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
 circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
 individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

 *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
  

>>> -- 
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>
>
>
> -- 
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> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque,

Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
Thanks again. I intend to ask Vaughn if building up the bed, whether with
Gorilla or Stan's, might keep the bead in place absent air pressure, and
the stick factor may also be a useful element.

If the Kojaks can't be run tubeless without forethought -- for example,
having to check the tire every few days for pressure -- then I think I'll
bail. I want tubeless, yes, but no worries tubeless.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> and the corollary:  If your Sun Ringle Rims have that shelf, unlike the
> cross section image that I found, then I absolutely would have attempted
> tubeless.  For a stickier base tape, a lot of mechanics use a 1" wide roll
> of Gorilla Tape.  Some mechanics around here ONLY use Gorilla tape, which
> shocked me until I found that several mechanics at several shops all
> agree.
>
> Example Vendor
> 
>
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:15:41 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>
>> Just looking at the rim cross-section online, I probably would not have
>> attempted a straight tubeless conversion.  There's no upper shelf for the
>> tire bead to snap into.
>>
>> Here's where I found a view of the rim cross-section:
>>
>> Chain Reaction Cycles LINK
>> 
>>
>> Here's the kind of feature I look for before even attempting tubeless:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> That shelf is what you need.  If you want to go without tubes, keep them
>> pumped up, because air pressure is the only thing keeping the tire beads
>> from sliding down that hill inside your rim.  Absolutely bring a tube for
>> roadside repairs.
>>
>> That's my assessment.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 7:46:45 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Posting this also to the iBob list.
>>>
>>> I recently had (folding) 559 X 32 mm Kojaks converted to the tubeless
>>> system on tubeless ready Sun/Ringle EQ 21 rims by an experienced mechanic.
>>> They ride wonderfully and I've experienced no problems except this one:
>>>
>>> When a tire fully deflates, as the front did recently, doubtless because
>>> of a slow leak, the beads pull away from the rim, making it impossible to
>>> reinflate them with a floor pump, let alone a frame pump.
>>>
>>> I think that the Kojaks are not "tubeless ready" though 2 experienced
>>> mechanics said that they are "tubeless compatible." In contrast, the
>>> Furious Freds, tubeless ready on rims designed for tubeless tires, often
>>> deflate fully from slow leaks or because I remove the valve cores to insert
>>> more sealant; yet the beads remain in place.
>>>
>>> Does my experience mean that I'd better give up on tubeless-i-fying the
>>> Kojaks? Or that I should build up the rim bed a bit higher?
>>>
>>> The Kojaks seemed to ride noticeably smoother, and perhaps faster,
>>> without tubes than they do with tubes.
>>>
>>> All help welcome. Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>>> Other professional writing services.
>>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>>
>>> *
>>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
>>> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
>>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>>
>>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>>
>>>
>> --
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> email to [email protected].
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
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>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

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Re: [RBW] Re: Help with a tubeless conversion

2015-11-07 Thread Patrick Moore 
Thanks, Bill -- very useful information, if not what I had hoped to hear.
I'll check in with Vaughn at Stevie's to see if he has any other
perspective, but it may be a case of going back to the Elk Passes and tubes
with sealant for the ride I want.

Conflicting opinions welcome!

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

>
> Just looking at the rim cross-section online, I probably would not have
> attempted a straight tubeless conversion.  There's no upper shelf for the
> tire bead to snap into.
>
> Here's where I found a view of the rim cross-section:
>
> Chain Reaction Cycles LINK
> 
>
> Here's the kind of feature I look for before even attempting tubeless:
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> That shelf is what you need.  If you want to go without tubes, keep them
> pumped up, because air pressure is the only thing keeping the tire beads
> from sliding down that hill inside your rim.  Absolutely bring a tube for
> roadside repairs.
>
> That's my assessment.
>
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 7:46:45 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Posting this also to the iBob list.
>>
>> I recently had (folding) 559 X 32 mm Kojaks converted to the tubeless
>> system on tubeless ready Sun/Ringle EQ 21 rims by an experienced mechanic.
>> They ride wonderfully and I've experienced no problems except this one:
>>
>> When a tire fully deflates, as the front did recently, doubtless because
>> of a slow leak, the beads pull away from the rim, making it impossible to
>> reinflate them with a floor pump, let alone a frame pump.
>>
>> I think that the Kojaks are not "tubeless ready" though 2 experienced
>> mechanics said that they are "tubeless compatible." In contrast, the
>> Furious Freds, tubeless ready on rims designed for tubeless tires, often
>> deflate fully from slow leaks or because I remove the valve cores to insert
>> more sealant; yet the beads remain in place.
>>
>> Does my experience mean that I'd better give up on tubeless-i-fying the
>> Kojaks? Or that I should build up the rim bed a bit higher?
>>
>> The Kojaks seemed to ride noticeably smoother, and perhaps faster,
>> without tubes than they do with tubes.
>>
>> All help welcome. Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>> *
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
>> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [email protected].
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.