Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[scott minor]

I missed the 5 minute window for buying an Atlantis on the Riv site so 
called up C&L in Canada the next day and bought one from the batch they 
preordered.  I've was half expecting an extra freight bill for tariff but 
never received one.  It's been two months now since I got the frame so 
seems to be in the clear.  
On Sunday, July 6, 2025 at 7:00:28 PM UTC-4 Donzaemon wrote:

> Thanks for that breakdown. Yeah, it sounds like your situation might have 
> been a fluke. Grats, though. It's a bummer that the landscape is as it is 
> today. 
>
> On Sunday, July 6, 2025 at 3:42:24 PM UTC-7 Spencer wrote:
>
>> At a high level it got held in Memphis, I called the FedEx import line 
>> (found it on their site somewhere and they didn’t contact me), they sent me 
>> a form to get an import ID number(19 CFR 24.5 form) and had some questions 
>> on the import itself. I had them walk me through all required fields as I 
>> filled it out, confirmed they received it when I submitted, and then 
>> confirmed they sent it to the customs agent while on the phone. 
>>
>> For the import questions they had I clarified the import was a personal 
>> steel bike frame import for $1860.57 and then talked bikes for a few 
>> minutes with the support person. Lol
>>
>> Giant disclaimer that they could’ve miscoded it so I may have gotten 
>> lucky and the tariff situation has changed since April/May so it could get 
>> hit with a tariff if I bought it now hypothetically. 
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 4:07 PM Donzaemon  wrote:
>>
>>> Spencer, can you speak to the process you went through for dealing with 
>>> the shipment? Was it FedEx who contacted you when the order was at customs?
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 6, 2025 at 9:57:15 AM UTC-7 Spencer wrote:
>>>
>>>> So crazy to hear the various charges fedex is hitting people with. I 
>>>> got hit with $0 from my blue lug shipment (ordered one of their Atlantis 
>>>> frames months ago). I called the FedEx import people and had them walk me 
>>>> through exactly how to fill out the forms. Got an invoice and other 
>>>> documentation for the import expecting to have some charges, but it listed 
>>>> $0 on there.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 12:32 PM Stephen A  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I got hit with tariffs on a $400 order from Blue Lug. Fedex sent me an 
>>>>> invoice in the mail, which I got after the fact. Came out to about 10% 
>>>>> extra...
>>>>> On Tuesday, May 27, 2025 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7 Adrian wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is anyone getting his with tariffs or charges for smaller 
>>>>>> items/orders? Or just oversized items like frames?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, May 24, 2025 at 4:36:42 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay 
>>>>>>> it to get a frameset I really liked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your 
>>>>>>> riding experiences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki <
>>>>>>> taylork...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This 
>>>>>>>> amount is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee 
>>>>>>>> of $32 
>>>>>>>> and a disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all 
>>>>>>>> considered 
>>>>>>>> importers when buying from out of the country.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From: *rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  
>>>>>>>> on behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
>>>>>>>> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
>>>>>>>> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I 
>>>>>>>> didn't pay any tariff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>
>>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Donzaemon]

Thanks for that breakdown. Yeah, it sounds like your situation might have 
been a fluke. Grats, though. It's a bummer that the landscape is as it is 
today. 

On Sunday, July 6, 2025 at 3:42:24 PM UTC-7 Spencer wrote:

> At a high level it got held in Memphis, I called the FedEx import line 
> (found it on their site somewhere and they didn’t contact me), they sent me 
> a form to get an import ID number(19 CFR 24.5 form) and had some questions 
> on the import itself. I had them walk me through all required fields as I 
> filled it out, confirmed they received it when I submitted, and then 
> confirmed they sent it to the customs agent while on the phone. 
>
> For the import questions they had I clarified the import was a personal 
> steel bike frame import for $1860.57 and then talked bikes for a few 
> minutes with the support person. Lol
>
> Giant disclaimer that they could’ve miscoded it so I may have gotten lucky 
> and the tariff situation has changed since April/May so it could get hit 
> with a tariff if I bought it now hypothetically. 
>
> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 4:07 PM Donzaemon  wrote:
>
>> Spencer, can you speak to the process you went through for dealing with 
>> the shipment? Was it FedEx who contacted you when the order was at customs?
>>
>> On Sunday, July 6, 2025 at 9:57:15 AM UTC-7 Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> So crazy to hear the various charges fedex is hitting people with. I got 
>>> hit with $0 from my blue lug shipment (ordered one of their Atlantis frames 
>>> months ago). I called the FedEx import people and had them walk me through 
>>> exactly how to fill out the forms. Got an invoice and other documentation 
>>> for the import expecting to have some charges, but it listed $0 on there.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 12:32 PM Stephen A  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I got hit with tariffs on a $400 order from Blue Lug. Fedex sent me an 
>>>> invoice in the mail, which I got after the fact. Came out to about 10% 
>>>> extra...
>>>> On Tuesday, May 27, 2025 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7 Adrian wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone getting his with tariffs or charges for smaller 
>>>>> items/orders? Or just oversized items like frames?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, May 24, 2025 at 4:36:42 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay it 
>>>>>> to get a frameset I really liked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your 
>>>>>> riding experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This 
>>>>>>> amount is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of 
>>>>>>> $32 
>>>>>>> and a disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered 
>>>>>>> importers when buying from out of the country.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From: *rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  
>>>>>>> on behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
>>>>>>> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
>>>>>>> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I 
>>>>>>> didn't pay any tariff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe
>>>> .
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>
>>> To view this discussion visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com?utm_

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Spencer]

At a high level it got held in Memphis, I called the FedEx import line
(found it on their site somewhere and they didn’t contact me), they sent me
a form to get an import ID number(19 CFR 24.5 form) and had some questions
on the import itself. I had them walk me through all required fields as I
filled it out, confirmed they received it when I submitted, and then
confirmed they sent it to the customs agent while on the phone.

For the import questions they had I clarified the import was a personal
steel bike frame import for $1860.57 and then talked bikes for a few
minutes with the support person. Lol

Giant disclaimer that they could’ve miscoded it so I may have gotten lucky
and the tariff situation has changed since April/May so it could get hit
with a tariff if I bought it now hypothetically.

On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 4:07 PM Donzaemon  wrote:

> Spencer, can you speak to the process you went through for dealing with
> the shipment? Was it FedEx who contacted you when the order was at customs?
>
> On Sunday, July 6, 2025 at 9:57:15 AM UTC-7 Spencer wrote:
>
>> So crazy to hear the various charges fedex is hitting people with. I got
>> hit with $0 from my blue lug shipment (ordered one of their Atlantis frames
>> months ago). I called the FedEx import people and had them walk me through
>> exactly how to fill out the forms. Got an invoice and other documentation
>> for the import expecting to have some charges, but it listed $0 on there.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 12:32 PM Stephen A  wrote:
>>
>>> I got hit with tariffs on a $400 order from Blue Lug. Fedex sent me an
>>> invoice in the mail, which I got after the fact. Came out to about 10%
>>> extra...
>>> On Tuesday, May 27, 2025 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7 Adrian wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is anyone getting his with tariffs or charges for smaller items/orders?
>>>> Or just oversized items like frames?
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, May 24, 2025 at 4:36:42 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay it
>>>>> to get a frameset I really liked.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your
>>>>> riding experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This
>>>>>> amount is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of 
>>>>>> $32
>>>>>> and a disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered
>>>>>> importers when buying from out of the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From: *rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>>>>>> on behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
>>>>>> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
>>>>>> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't
>>>>>> pay any tariff.
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/59d5f2da-bf97-45e7-b082-ce06787a4d56n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/59d5f2da-bf97-45e7-b082-ce06787a4d56n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAEGKrWoF_nf5RUBDTdHvZ74XM8zRDUsxUXnF%2Bm-iJtMi%2BhjWNw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Donzaemon]

Spencer, can you speak to the process you went through for dealing with the 
shipment? Was it FedEx who contacted you when the order was at customs?

On Sunday, July 6, 2025 at 9:57:15 AM UTC-7 Spencer wrote:

> So crazy to hear the various charges fedex is hitting people with. I got 
> hit with $0 from my blue lug shipment (ordered one of their Atlantis frames 
> months ago). I called the FedEx import people and had them walk me through 
> exactly how to fill out the forms. Got an invoice and other documentation 
> for the import expecting to have some charges, but it listed $0 on there.
>
> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 12:32 PM Stephen A  wrote:
>
>> I got hit with tariffs on a $400 order from Blue Lug. Fedex sent me an 
>> invoice in the mail, which I got after the fact. Came out to about 10% 
>> extra...
>> On Tuesday, May 27, 2025 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7 Adrian wrote:
>>
>>> Is anyone getting his with tariffs or charges for smaller items/orders? 
>>> Or just oversized items like frames?
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 24, 2025 at 4:36:42 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> 16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay it 
>>>> to get a frameset I really liked.
>>>>
>>>> I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your 
>>>> riding experiences.
>>>>
>>>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This 
>>>>> amount is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of 
>>>>> $32 
>>>>> and a disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered 
>>>>> importers when buying from out of the country.
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  
>>>>> on behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
>>>>> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
>>>>> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>
>>>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't 
>>>>> pay any tariff.
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/59d5f2da-bf97-45e7-b082-ce06787a4d56n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Spencer]

So crazy to hear the various charges fedex is hitting people with. I got
hit with $0 from my blue lug shipment (ordered one of their Atlantis frames
months ago). I called the FedEx import people and had them walk me through
exactly how to fill out the forms. Got an invoice and other documentation
for the import expecting to have some charges, but it listed $0 on there.

On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 12:32 PM Stephen A  wrote:

> I got hit with tariffs on a $400 order from Blue Lug. Fedex sent me an
> invoice in the mail, which I got after the fact. Came out to about 10%
> extra...
> On Tuesday, May 27, 2025 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7 Adrian wrote:
>
>> Is anyone getting his with tariffs or charges for smaller items/orders?
>> Or just oversized items like frames?
>>
>> On Saturday, May 24, 2025 at 4:36:42 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> 16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay it to
>>> get a frameset I really liked.
>>>
>>> I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your riding
>>> experiences.
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This
>>>> amount is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of $32
>>>> and a disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered
>>>> importers when buying from out of the country.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  on
>>>> behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
>>>> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
>>>> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>
>>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't
>>>> pay any tariff.
>>>>
>>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAEGKrWrwXcpykyULLhSTf5Dy81ZUz5iD82rOXpqBhKG6FSKy9g%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Stephen A]

I got hit with tariffs on a $400 order from Blue Lug. Fedex sent me an 
invoice in the mail, which I got after the fact. Came out to about 10% 
extra...
On Tuesday, May 27, 2025 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-7 Adrian wrote:

> Is anyone getting his with tariffs or charges for smaller items/orders? Or 
> just oversized items like frames?
>
> On Saturday, May 24, 2025 at 4:36:42 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> 16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay it to 
>> get a frameset I really liked.
>>
>> I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your riding 
>> experiences.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.
>>
>> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This amount 
>>> is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of $32 and a 
>>> disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered importers 
>>> when buying from out of the country.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From: *rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  on 
>>> behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
>>> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
>>> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
>>> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>
>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't 
>>> pay any tariff.
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fa3e7a40-b436-4992-a229-2ece3dc34456n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Drew Fitchette]

Anyone with a 55cm Atlantis feeling their frame is a little too big?

Would be willing to straight trade my 54cm Appaloosa from the last batch. 
:-)

On Tuesday, May 27, 2025 at 4:54:31 PM UTC-4 Adrian wrote:

> Is anyone getting his with tariffs or charges for smaller items/orders? Or 
> just oversized items like frames?
>
> On Saturday, May 24, 2025 at 4:36:42 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> 16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay it to 
>> get a frameset I really liked.
>>
>> I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your riding 
>> experiences.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.
>>
>> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This amount 
>>> is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of $32 and a 
>>> disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered importers 
>>> when buying from out of the country.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From: *rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  on 
>>> behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
>>> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
>>> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
>>> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>
>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't 
>>> pay any tariff.
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c6bb8ee3-1362-47dd-8508-6837174ace8an%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Adrian]

Is anyone getting his with tariffs or charges for smaller items/orders? Or 
just oversized items like frames?

On Saturday, May 24, 2025 at 4:36:42 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> 16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay it to 
> get a frameset I really liked.
>
> I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your riding 
> experiences.
>
> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.
>
> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
> wrote:
>
>> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This amount 
>> is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of $32 and a 
>> disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered importers 
>> when buying from out of the country.
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From: *rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  on 
>> behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
>> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
>> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
>> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>
>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't pay 
>> any tariff.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d75b55f0-c202-43c1-be2d-bf57d2091cf5n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Patrick Moore]

16%+ for a very nice frame; I wouldn’t like it but I’d happily pay it to
get a frameset I really liked.

I’ll be interested to see and hear about the final build and your riding
experiences.

Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming in ABQ. NM.

On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 5:12 PM Taylor Kurosaki 
wrote:

> Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This amount
> is due to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of $32 and a
> disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered importers
> when buying from out of the country.
>
>
>
> *From: *rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Taylor Kurosaki <
> taylorkuros...@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
> *To: *RBW Owners Bunch 
> *Subject: *Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>
>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't pay
> any tariff.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguOR426EM5SUP1pFUEQnwzx4k4E7gveBhhjqFz32TNgSg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Taylor Kurosaki]

Welp, it turns out I just received a FedEx bill for $305.39. This amount is due 
to a tariff of 10%, a tariff of 3.9%, a processing fee of $32 and a 
disbursement fee of $14. So, buyer beware, you are all considered importers 
when buying from out of the country.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Taylor Kurosaki 
Date: Friday, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
 I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't pay any 
tariff.
On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:
I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered today. no 
email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, but maybe there's 
a chance that comes later?

[https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/attach/11a53a98499185/IMG_8419.JPG?part=0.1&view=1]
[https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/attach/11a53a98499185/IMG_8420.JPG?part=0.2&view=1]

for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green bike look 
cute as hell ◡̈

Brent in NY
On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I ordered 
last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few days to get 
through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form and then 
follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing.

Spencer

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette  wrote:
As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers coming 
from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect the FOB(free 
on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed price. Meaning 
sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, and sometimes we pay 
10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the agents are kind of 
figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was the flat 10% that we're 
set to incur until July when the "retaliatory tariffs" are done being paused.

Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end importer. 
So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his broker. Since Blue Lug 
imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically re-importing the 
frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being based on their retail 
price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on the container value of the 
frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then passed on to us as customers.

Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience a hang 
up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super helpful!

- Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale price ?
On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?

On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki  wrote:
The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 30%. This is 
total madness.


On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is 
8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
But, double check that.

Mike


On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon  wrote:

Any idea what the tarrif might be??

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Scott G.
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

HTS codes link
Have fun or hire a lawyer.

https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1

This not legal advice,
the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.



On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 taylork...@gmail.com wrote:
Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The Trump 
tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the tariffs, not the 
seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are supposedly sending me 
a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, to pay an import tariff on 
the goods.

They require the following information:
1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!

On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:
I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on an 
opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site shortly 
thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Doug H.]

If the carrier crosses the border with my goods and pays the tariff/fees 
then do I not owe them a reimbursement? Free trade was so nice once upon a 
time. 
Doug

On Tuesday, May 13, 2025 at 3:26:32 PM UTC-4 James Poulson wrote:

> G Ram and others who have received 'tariff' bills from FedEx subsequent to 
> the frame or other items being delivered. 
>
> My wife is a pilot with FedEx and when I described to her the above 
> discussion she scoffed and called higher ups within FedEx org. Their 
> response is that you are being scammed. FedEx does not collect the 'tariff' 
> or any subesquent charges. Do not pay those charges, especially if you have 
> the merchandise in hand. 
>
> I hope you have not already paid the 'tariff/duty/custom' whatever.
>
> JP
>
> On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 6:11:57 PM UTC-5 G Ram wrote:
>
>> Interesting. I had mine delivered to RBW late April and got a fedex bill 
>> of $300..
>>
>> On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't 
>>> pay any tariff.
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered 
>>>> today. no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, but 
>>>> maybe there's a chance that comes later?
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_8419.JPG] 
>>>> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>>>>
>>>> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green 
>>>> bike look cute as hell ◡̈
>>>>
>>>> Brent in NY
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I 
>>>>> ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few 
>>>>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form 
>>>>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Spencer
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on 
>>>>>> containers coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed 
>>>>>> to 
>>>>>> reflect the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a 
>>>>>> Landed price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the 
>>>>>> goods, and sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear 
>>>>>> that the agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both 
>>>>>> cases 
>>>>>> it was the flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the 
>>>>>> "retaliatory tariffs" are done being paused. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end 
>>>>>> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his 
>>>>>> broker. 
>>>>>> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically 
>>>>>> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee 
>>>>>> being 
>>>>>> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on 
>>>>>> the 
>>>>>> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then 
>>>>>> passed 
>>>>>> on to us as customers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to 
>>>>>> experience a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, 
>>>>>> it's super helpful!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale 
>>>>>>> price ? 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 
>>>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[James Poulson]

G Ram and others who have received 'tariff' bills from FedEx subsequent to 
the frame or other items being delivered. 

My wife is a pilot with FedEx and when I described to her the above 
discussion she scoffed and called higher ups within FedEx org. Their 
response is that you are being scammed. FedEx does not collect the 'tariff' 
or any subesquent charges. Do not pay those charges, especially if you have 
the merchandise in hand. 

I hope you have not already paid the 'tariff/duty/custom' whatever.

JP

On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 6:11:57 PM UTC-5 G Ram wrote:

> Interesting. I had mine delivered to RBW late April and got a fedex bill 
> of $300..
>
> On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
> wrote:
>
>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't pay 
>> any tariff.
>>
>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:
>>
>>> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered 
>>> today. no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, but 
>>> maybe there's a chance that comes later?
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_8419.JPG] 
>>> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>>>
>>> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green bike 
>>> look cute as hell ◡̈
>>>
>>> Brent in NY
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I 
>>>> ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few 
>>>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form 
>>>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing. 
>>>>
>>>> Spencer
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers 
>>>>> coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect 
>>>>> the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed 
>>>>> price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the 
>>>>> agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the "retaliatory 
>>>>> tariffs" 
>>>>> are done being paused. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end 
>>>>> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his 
>>>>> broker. 
>>>>> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically 
>>>>> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being 
>>>>> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then 
>>>>> passed 
>>>>> on to us as customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience 
>>>>> a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super 
>>>>> helpful!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale 
>>>>>> price ? 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 
>>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 
>>>>>>>> 30%. This is total madness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ouch. According to the

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Seung Vo]

Did you have to pay customs on the frame from blue lug? Thinking of
purchasing from blue lug but was nervous about the customs and duties.

On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 15:31 Taylor Kurosaki 
wrote:

>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't pay
> any tariff.
>
> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:
>
>> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered today.
>> no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, but maybe
>> there's a chance that comes later?
>>
>> [image: IMG_8419.JPG]
>> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>>
>> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green bike
>> look cute as hell ◡̈
>>
>> Brent in NY
>>
>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I
>>> ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few
>>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form
>>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing.
>>>
>>> Spencer
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers
>>>> coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect
>>>> the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed
>>>> price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, and
>>>> sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the
>>>> agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was the
>>>> flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the "retaliatory tariffs"
>>>> are done being paused.
>>>>
>>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end
>>>> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his broker.
>>>> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically
>>>> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being
>>>> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on the
>>>> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then passed
>>>> on to us as customers.
>>>>
>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience
>>>> a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super
>>>> helpful!
>>>>
>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale
>>>>> price ?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4
>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is
>>>>>>> 30%. This is total madness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code
>>>>>>> is 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
>>>>>>> But, double check that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any idea what the tarrif might be??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Scott G.
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>&g

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Doug H.]

f us know what's going 
>>>>>>>> on, 
>>>>>>>> it's super helpful!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale 
>>>>>>>>> price ? 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 
>>>>>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki <
>>>>>>>>>> taylork...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes 
>>>>>>>>>>> is 30%. This is total madness.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the 
>>>>>>>>>>> code is 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling 
>>>>>>>>>>> over $600.
>>>>>>>>>>> But, double check that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon <
>>>>>>>>>>> ber...@bernardduhon.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any idea what the tarrif might be?? 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <
>>>>>>>>>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *Scott G.
>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> HTS codes link
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This not legal advice,  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 
>>>>>>>>>>> taylork...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US 
>>>>>>>>>>> customs! The Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the 
>>>>>>>>>>> "importer" 
>>>>>>>>>>> pays the tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with 
>>>>>>>>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Bill Lindsay]

Ouch indeed.  Furthermore, when the tariff gets rolled back, or paused, any 
normal person will ask the bureaucratic abyss "Where's my tariff rebate?"  

There is no tariff rebate

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, May 10, 2025 at 4:14:15 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> Ouch!
>
> On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 8:05:23 PM UTC-5 Brent Knepper wrote:
>
>> yeah fedex got me earlier in the week for ~$250 
>> duty/tax/fee/anything-but-the-word-tariff thing
>>
>> On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-4 grbi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. I had mine delivered to RBW late April and got a fedex bill 
>>> of $300..
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't 
>>>> pay any tariff.
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered 
>>>>> today. no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, 
>>>>> but 
>>>>> maybe there's a chance that comes later?
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: IMG_8419.JPG] 
>>>>> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>>>>>
>>>>> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green 
>>>>> bike look cute as hell ◡̈
>>>>>
>>>>> Brent in NY
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that 
>>>>>> I ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a 
>>>>>> few 
>>>>>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form 
>>>>>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spencer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on 
>>>>>>> containers coming from various countries I can say that some have 
>>>>>>> seemed to 
>>>>>>> reflect the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a 
>>>>>>> Landed price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the 
>>>>>>> goods, and sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear 
>>>>>>> that the agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both 
>>>>>>> cases 
>>>>>>> it was the flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the 
>>>>>>> "retaliatory tariffs" are done being paused. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the 
>>>>>>> end importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his 
>>>>>>> broker. Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're 
>>>>>>> technically re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> fee being based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay 
>>>>>>> are 
>>>>>>> based on the container value of the frames/completes ordered from 
>>>>>>> Taiwan 
>>>>>>> and then passed on to us as customers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to 
>>>>>>> experience a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going 
>>>>>>> on, 
>>>>>>> it's super helpful!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale 
>>>>>>>> price ? 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 
>>>>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com 

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Armand Kizirian]

;>>>
>>>>>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to 
>>>>>>>> experience a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going 
>>>>>>>> on, 
>>>>>>>> it's super helpful!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale 
>>>>>>>>> price ? 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 
>>>>>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki <
>>>>>>>>>> taylork...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes 
>>>>>>>>>>> is 30%. This is total madness.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the 
>>>>>>>>>>> code is 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling 
>>>>>>>>>>> over $600.
>>>>>>>>>>> But, double check that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon <
>>>>>>>>>>> ber...@bernardduhon.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any idea what the tarrif might be?? 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <
>>>>>>>>>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *Scott G.
>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> HTS codes link
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This not legal advice,  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 
>>>>>>>>>>> taylork...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US 
>>>>>>>>>>> customs! The Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the 
>>>>>>>>>>> "importer" 
>>>>&

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Mike Gillespie]

Received my tariff/duties/customs/processing/disbursement fees from FedEx 
today.  $305. Guess it was too good to be true after all. My apologies to 
anyone who made a similar purchase based on my prior post here. This was my 
first purchase from Blue Lug, and although I’ve made smaller parts 
purchases from European outlets in the past, I’ve never received a 
subsequent billing for duties, etc. Still, given how much I enjoy this 
bike, I’ve no regrets!
Mike
On Saturday, May 10, 2025 at 4:14:15 AM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> Ouch!
>
> On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 8:05:23 PM UTC-5 Brent Knepper wrote:
>
>> yeah fedex got me earlier in the week for ~$250 
>> duty/tax/fee/anything-but-the-word-tariff thing
>>
>> On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-4 grbi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. I had mine delivered to RBW late April and got a fedex bill 
>>> of $300..
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't 
>>>> pay any tariff.
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered 
>>>>> today. no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, 
>>>>> but 
>>>>> maybe there's a chance that comes later?
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: IMG_8419.JPG] 
>>>>> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>>>>>
>>>>> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green 
>>>>> bike look cute as hell ◡̈
>>>>>
>>>>> Brent in NY
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that 
>>>>>> I ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a 
>>>>>> few 
>>>>>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form 
>>>>>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spencer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on 
>>>>>>> containers coming from various countries I can say that some have 
>>>>>>> seemed to 
>>>>>>> reflect the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a 
>>>>>>> Landed price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the 
>>>>>>> goods, and sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear 
>>>>>>> that the agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both 
>>>>>>> cases 
>>>>>>> it was the flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the 
>>>>>>> "retaliatory tariffs" are done being paused. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the 
>>>>>>> end importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his 
>>>>>>> broker. Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're 
>>>>>>> technically re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> fee being based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay 
>>>>>>> are 
>>>>>>> based on the container value of the frames/completes ordered from 
>>>>>>> Taiwan 
>>>>>>> and then passed on to us as customers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to 
>>>>>>> experience a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going 
>>>>>>> on, 
>>>>>>> it's super helpful!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wh

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Ryan]

Ouch!

On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 8:05:23 PM UTC-5 Brent Knepper wrote:

> yeah fedex got me earlier in the week for ~$250 
> duty/tax/fee/anything-but-the-word-tariff thing
>
> On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-4 grbi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Interesting. I had mine delivered to RBW late April and got a fedex bill 
>> of $300..
>>
>> On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't 
>>> pay any tariff.
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered 
>>>> today. no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, but 
>>>> maybe there's a chance that comes later?
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_8419.JPG] 
>>>> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>>>>
>>>> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green 
>>>> bike look cute as hell ◡̈
>>>>
>>>> Brent in NY
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I 
>>>>> ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few 
>>>>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form 
>>>>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Spencer
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on 
>>>>>> containers coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed 
>>>>>> to 
>>>>>> reflect the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a 
>>>>>> Landed price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the 
>>>>>> goods, and sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear 
>>>>>> that the agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both 
>>>>>> cases 
>>>>>> it was the flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the 
>>>>>> "retaliatory tariffs" are done being paused. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end 
>>>>>> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his 
>>>>>> broker. 
>>>>>> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically 
>>>>>> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee 
>>>>>> being 
>>>>>> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on 
>>>>>> the 
>>>>>> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then 
>>>>>> passed 
>>>>>> on to us as customers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to 
>>>>>> experience a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, 
>>>>>> it's super helpful!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale 
>>>>>>> price ? 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 
>>>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki  
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 
>>>>>>>>> 30%. This is total madness.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>&

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Brent Knepper]

yeah fedex got me earlier in the week for ~$250 
duty/tax/fee/anything-but-the-word-tariff thing

On Friday, May 9, 2025 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-4 grbi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Interesting. I had mine delivered to RBW late April and got a fedex bill 
> of $300..
>
> On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM Taylor Kurosaki  
> wrote:
>
>>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't pay 
>> any tariff.
>>
>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:
>>
>>> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered 
>>> today. no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, but 
>>> maybe there's a chance that comes later?
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_8419.JPG] 
>>> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>>>
>>> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green bike 
>>> look cute as hell ◡̈
>>>
>>> Brent in NY
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I 
>>>> ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few 
>>>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form 
>>>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing. 
>>>>
>>>> Spencer
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers 
>>>>> coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect 
>>>>> the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed 
>>>>> price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the 
>>>>> agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the "retaliatory 
>>>>> tariffs" 
>>>>> are done being paused. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end 
>>>>> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his 
>>>>> broker. 
>>>>> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically 
>>>>> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being 
>>>>> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then 
>>>>> passed 
>>>>> on to us as customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience 
>>>>> a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super 
>>>>> helpful!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale 
>>>>>> price ? 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 
>>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 
>>>>>>>> 30%. This is total madness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code 
>>>>>>>> is 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
>>>>>>>> But, double check that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon  
>>>>>>>> wro

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[G Ram]

Interesting. I had mine delivered to RBW late April and got a fedex bill of
$300..

On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 3:31 PM Taylor Kurosaki 
wrote:

>  I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't pay
> any tariff.
>
> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:
>
>> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered today.
>> no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, but maybe
>> there's a chance that comes later?
>>
>> [image: IMG_8419.JPG]
>> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>>
>> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green bike
>> look cute as hell ◡̈
>>
>> Brent in NY
>>
>> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I
>>> ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few
>>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form
>>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing.
>>>
>>> Spencer
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers
>>>> coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect
>>>> the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed
>>>> price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, and
>>>> sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the
>>>> agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was the
>>>> flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the "retaliatory tariffs"
>>>> are done being paused.
>>>>
>>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end
>>>> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his broker.
>>>> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically
>>>> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being
>>>> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on the
>>>> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then passed
>>>> on to us as customers.
>>>>
>>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience
>>>> a hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super
>>>> helpful!
>>>>
>>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale
>>>>> price ?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4
>>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is
>>>>>>> 30%. This is total madness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code
>>>>>>> is 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
>>>>>>> But, double check that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any idea what the tarrif might be??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Scott G.
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Taylor Kurosaki]

 I got my Atlantis from Blue Lug early this week. Looks like I didn't pay 
any tariff.

On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:18:41 PM UTC-7 in...@brentknepper.com wrote:

> I also ordered a blue lug 'lantis last friday and had it delivered today. 
> no email/text/call or point of delivery paperwork with tariffs, but maybe 
> there's a chance that comes later?
>
> [image: IMG_8419.JPG] 
> [image: IMG_8420.JPG]
>
> for now my focus will be on figuring out how to make a sergio-green bike 
> look cute as hell ◡̈
>
> Brent in NY
>
> On Friday, May 2, 2025 at 2:29:10 PM UTC-4 Spencer wrote:
>
>> Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I 
>> ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few 
>> days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form 
>> and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing. 
>>
>> Spencer
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers 
>>> coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect 
>>> the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed 
>>> price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, and 
>>> sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the 
>>> agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was the 
>>> flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the "retaliatory tariffs" 
>>> are done being paused. 
>>>
>>> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end 
>>> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his broker. 
>>> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically 
>>> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being 
>>> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on the 
>>> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then passed 
>>> on to us as customers.
>>>
>>> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience a 
>>> hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super 
>>> helpful!
>>>
>>> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>
>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale price 
>>>> ? 
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 brianmark...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 
>>>>>> 30%. This is total madness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is 
>>>>>> 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
>>>>>> But, double check that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea what the tarrif might be?? 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On 
>>>>>> Behalf Of *Scott G.
>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>>>>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HTS codes link
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This not legal advice,  
>&g

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Spencer]

Reporting back, I just received my frame through blue lug today that I
ordered last Thursday/Friday. No charges or tariffs to report. Took a few
days to get through customs and had to call fedex and submit some a form
and then follow-up, but after that it was smooth sailing.

Spencer

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:44 AM Drew Fitchette 
wrote:

> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers
> coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect
> the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed
> price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, and
> sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the
> agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was the
> flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the "retaliatory tariffs"
> are done being paused.
>
> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end
> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his broker.
> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically
> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being
> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on the
> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then passed
> on to us as customers.
>
> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience a
> hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super
> helpful!
>
> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>
> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale price ?
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 brianmark...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 30%.
>>>> This is total madness.
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is
>>>> 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
>>>> But, double check that.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Any idea what the tarrif might be??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Scott G.
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HTS codes link
>>>>
>>>> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This not legal advice,
>>>>
>>>> the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 taylork...@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The
>>>> Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the
>>>> tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are
>>>> supposedly sending me a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly,
>>>> to pay an import tariff on the goods.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They require the following information:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
>>>>
>>>> 2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
>>>>
>>>> 3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
>>>>
>>>> 4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
>>>>
>>>> 5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>&

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Isaak Oliansky]

Howdy Friends-

Please don't mind if I jump in this thread for a bit of Atlantis 
questioning. I reckon that's a little better than starting a new one. I am 
a proud owner of a 57cm Joe Appaloosa setup with a 135mm faceplater stem 
and ron's ortho bars which I absolutely adore as my townie. I'm curious 
about sizing down to a 55cm Atlantis and running drop bars and a shortie 
stem. It seems like drop bars are not all-too common on these MIT Atlanti' 
and I'm curious if anyone else has gone that direction. 6'0" with a short 
inseam (PBH uhhh 80 something?) and a long torso.  

-Isaak in Ashland, OR 

On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 5:44:14 AM UTC-7 Drew Fitchette wrote:

> As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers 
> coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect 
> the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed 
> price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, and 
> sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the 
> agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was the 
> flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the "retaliatory tariffs" 
> are done being paused. 
>
> Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end 
> importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his broker. 
> Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically 
> re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being 
> based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on the 
> container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then passed 
> on to us as customers.
>
> Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience a 
> hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super 
> helpful!
>
> - Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...
>
> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale price ? 
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 brianmark...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 30%. 
>>>> This is total madness.
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is 
>>>> 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
>>>> But, double check that.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Any idea what the tarrif might be?? 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On 
>>>> Behalf Of *Scott G.
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> HTS codes link
>>>>
>>>> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> This not legal advice,  
>>>>
>>>> the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 taylork...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The 
>>>> Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the 
>>>> tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are 
>>>> supposedly sending me a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, 
>>>> to pay an import tariff on the goods.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> They require the following information:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Drew Fitchette]

As someone who's currently in the mire of paying tariffs on containers 
coming from various countries I can say that some have seemed to reflect 
the FOB(free on board) price, and some have seemed to reflect a Landed 
price. Meaning sometimes we're charged for only the cost of the goods, and 
sometimes we pay 10% on the price of transit. So it'd appear that the 
agents are kind of figuring it out as they go, but in both cases it was the 
flat 10% that we're set to incur until July when the "retaliatory tariffs" 
are done being paused. 

Garth, Tariffs are based on whatever the invoice amount is to the end 
importer. So in this case, Taylor is the importer and FedEx is his broker. 
Since Blue Lug imports the frames directly from Taiwan we're technically 
re-importing the frames when we buy them and are subject to the fee being 
based on their retail price. For Riv, the tariffs they pay are based on the 
container value of the frames/completes ordered from Taiwan and then passed 
on to us as customers.

Taylor, I'm sorry that you seem to be the first one here to experience a 
hang up! Thanks for letting all of us know what's going on, it's super 
helpful!

- Drew who's wondering why he works in Import/Export...

On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 8:07:50 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale price ? 
>
> On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 brianmark...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 30%. 
>>> This is total madness.
>>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is 
>>> 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
>>> But, double check that.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Any idea what the tarrif might be?? 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On 
>>> Behalf Of *Scott G.
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> HTS codes link
>>>
>>> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> This not legal advice,  
>>>
>>> the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 taylork...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The 
>>> Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the 
>>> tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are 
>>> supposedly sending me a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, 
>>> to pay an import tariff on the goods.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> They require the following information:
>>>
>>> 1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
>>>
>>> 2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
>>>
>>> 3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
>>>
>>> 4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
>>>
>>> 5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:
>>>
>>> I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on 
>>> an opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site 
>>> shortly thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday I 
>>> pulled the trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got 
>>> a FedEx tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool 
>>> my Atlantis is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in 
>>> Tokyo last year and I haven't felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a 
>>> long time. Thank

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Garth]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't tariffs based on the wholesale price ? 

On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 7:44:18 AM UTC-4 brianmark...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki  
> wrote:
>
>> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 30%. 
>> This is total madness.
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>>
>> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is 
>> 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
>> But, double check that.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon  
>> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>> Any idea what the tarrif might be?? 
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On 
>> Behalf Of *Scott G.
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>>
>>  
>>
>> HTS codes link
>>
>> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>>
>>  
>>
>> This not legal advice,  
>>
>> the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 taylork...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The 
>> Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the 
>> tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are 
>> supposedly sending me a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, 
>> to pay an import tariff on the goods.
>>
>>  
>>
>> They require the following information:
>>
>> 1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
>>
>> 2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
>>
>> 3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
>>
>> 4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
>>
>> 5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:
>>
>> I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on 
>> an opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site 
>> shortly thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday I 
>> pulled the trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got 
>> a FedEx tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool 
>> my Atlantis is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in 
>> Tokyo last year and I haven't felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a 
>> long time. Thanks to those who alerted us to Blue Lug's stock!
>>
>> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 6:09:04 AM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>
>> That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that color 
>> way. My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the 
>> larger one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a 
>> soma porta folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger wald basket and 
>> it's nearly perfect for me. 
>>
>> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>>
>> Ok Josh, here’s proof (hopefully). My attempt at capturing the metallic 
>> nature of the paint job doesn’t come out well with my iPhone so these will 
>> have to suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake down, so some things will 
>> probably change at some point.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>
>> Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/73943661-7bee-4cc9-a397-4b612f87bd3en%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Brian McDermott]

Wow sooo is that like an extra $600?

On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 23:15 Taylor Kurosaki 
wrote:

> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 30%.
> This is total madness.
>
> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>
> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is
> 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
> But, double check that.
>
> Mike
>
> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Any idea what the tarrif might be??
>
>
>
> *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *Scott G.
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>
>
>
> HTS codes link
>
> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>
>
>
>
> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>
>
>
> This not legal advice,
>
> the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 taylork...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The
> Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the
> tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are
> supposedly sending me a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly,
> to pay an import tariff on the goods.
>
>
>
> They require the following information:
>
> 1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
>
> 2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
>
> 3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
>
> 4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
>
> 5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!
>
>
>
> On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:
>
> I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on
> an opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site
> shortly thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday I
> pulled the trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got
> a FedEx tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool
> my Atlantis is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in
> Tokyo last year and I haven't felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a
> long time. Thanks to those who alerted us to Blue Lug's stock!
>
> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 6:09:04 AM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>
> That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that color
> way. My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person.
>
>
>
> I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the
> larger one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a
> soma porta folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger wald basket and
> it's nearly perfect for me.
>
> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>
> Ok Josh, here’s proof (hopefully). My attempt at capturing the metallic
> nature of the paint job doesn’t come out well with my iPhone so these will
> have to suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake down, so some things will
> probably change at some point.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>
> Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/73943661-7bee-4cc9-a397-4b612f87bd3en%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/73943661-7bee-4cc9-a397-4b612f87bd3en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CH2PR17MB3720A2BA4ACCA0BFEA353E6BCD832%40CH2PR17MB3720.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CH2PR17MB3720A2BA4ACCA0BFEA353E6BCD832%40CH2PR17MB3

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Spencer]

Also not lawyer, but looked into this and here's what I'm seeing. The 30%
rate I'm assuming you're seeing for 8714.91.20 applies to Russia, Cuba,
North Korea, and Belarus. For bike frames from Japan, I'd assume they fall
under the Japan special rate since the US and Japan have an existing trade
agreement (pre-global tariff) so the rate for bike frames is 0%, 3.9% worst
case according to that table. Here's where I'm seeing this:
https://hts.usitc.gov/search?query=8714912000 (view on a laptop, the mobile
view is bad).

My assumption is there may be a 10% tariff applied with the whole global
tariff thing, but I'm not sure if that applies to individuals vs business
imports or any specifics.

Give Fedex a call: 800-249-2953 (think they're open like 8am-8pm ET) and
have them walk you through the form on the phone, they're helpful. Then ask
to stay on the line after you submit it via docusign to confirm they got
it, and see if they can pass along to the customs agent right then
(getting. this from a reddit thread lol).

Hope this helps!
Spencer

On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 11:15 PM Taylor Kurosaki 
wrote:

> The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 30%.
> This is total madness.
>
> On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:
>
> Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is
> 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.
> But, double check that.
>
> Mike
>
> On Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Any idea what the tarrif might be??
>
>
>
> *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *Scott G.
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale
>
>
>
> HTS codes link
>
> Have fun or hire a lawyer.
>
>
>
>
> https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1
>
>
>
> This not legal advice,
>
> the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 taylork...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The
> Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the
> tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are
> supposedly sending me a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly,
> to pay an import tariff on the goods.
>
>
>
> They require the following information:
>
> 1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
>
> 2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
>
> 3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
>
> 4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
>
> 5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!
>
>
>
> On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:
>
> I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on
> an opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site
> shortly thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday I
> pulled the trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got
> a FedEx tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool
> my Atlantis is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in
> Tokyo last year and I haven't felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a
> long time. Thanks to those who alerted us to Blue Lug's stock!
>
> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 6:09:04 AM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>
> That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that color
> way. My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person.
>
>
>
> I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the
> larger one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a
> soma porta folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger wald basket and
> it's nearly perfect for me.
>
> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>
> Ok Josh, here’s proof (hopefully). My attempt at capturing the metallic
> nature of the paint job doesn’t come out well with my iPhone so these will
> have to suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake down, so some things will
> probably change at some point.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>
> Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Taylor Kurosaki]

The listed tariff with any of the bicycle frame-adjacent codes is 30%. This is total madness.On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:53 PM, Mike Rossi  wrote:Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.But, double check that.MikeOn Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon  wrote:







Any idea what the tarrif might be?? 
 

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
On Behalf Of Scott G.
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

 

HTS codes link


Have fun or hire a lawyer.


 


https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1


 


This not legal advice,  


the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.


 


 

 


On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4
taylork...@gmail.com wrote:


Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are supposedly sending me
 a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, to pay an import tariff on the goods.

 


They require the following information:


1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.


2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%


3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding


4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?:
no idea how to find this


5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!


 



On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:


I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on an opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site shortly thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday
 I pulled the trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got a FedEx tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool my Atlantis is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in Tokyo last year and I haven't
 felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a long time. Thanks to those who alerted us to Blue Lug's stock!


On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 6:09:04 AM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:


That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that color way. My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person. 

 


I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the larger one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a soma porta folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger
 wald basket and it's nearly perfect for me. 



On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:


Ok Josh, here’s proof (hopefully).
 My attempt at capturing the metallic nature of the paint job doesn’t come out well with my iPhone so these will have to suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake down, so some things will probably change at some point.

Mike


 


On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:


Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.











-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/73943661-7bee-4cc9-a397-4b612f87bd3en%40googlegroups.com.






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CH2PR17MB3720A2BA4ACCA0BFEA353E6BCD832%40CH2PR17MB3720.namprd17.prod.outlook.com.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9C998691-BE75-43AB-99AB-C3BA35F7094B%40gmail.com.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/C6917247-4D29-4921-AF81-2486A497047F%40gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Mike Rossi]

Ouch. According to the newest HTS website, it looks like the code is 8714912000. That’s for bicycle frames, and forks totaling over $600.But, double check that.MikeOn Apr 29, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Bernard Duhon  wrote:







Any idea what the tarrif might be?? 
 

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
On Behalf Of Scott G.
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

 

HTS codes link


Have fun or hire a lawyer.


 


https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1


 


This not legal advice,  


the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.


 


 

 


On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4
taylork...@gmail.com wrote:


Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are supposedly sending me
 a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, to pay an import tariff on the goods.

 


They require the following information:


1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.


2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%


3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding


4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?:
no idea how to find this


5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!


 



On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:


I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on an opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site shortly thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday
 I pulled the trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got a FedEx tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool my Atlantis is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in Tokyo last year and I haven't
 felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a long time. Thanks to those who alerted us to Blue Lug's stock!


On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 6:09:04 AM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:


That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that color way. My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person. 

 


I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the larger one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a soma porta folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger
 wald basket and it's nearly perfect for me. 



On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:


Ok Josh, here’s proof (hopefully).
 My attempt at capturing the metallic nature of the paint job doesn’t come out well with my iPhone so these will have to suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake down, so some things will probably change at some point.

Mike


 


On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:


Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.











-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/73943661-7bee-4cc9-a397-4b612f87bd3en%40googlegroups.com.






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CH2PR17MB3720A2BA4ACCA0BFEA353E6BCD832%40CH2PR17MB3720.namprd17.prod.outlook.com.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9C998691-BE75-43AB-99AB-C3BA35F7094B%40gmail.com.

RE: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Bernard Duhon]

Any idea what the tarrif might be??

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Scott G.
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 7:09 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

HTS codes link
Have fun or hire a lawyer.

https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1

This not legal advice,
the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.



On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 
taylork...@gmail.com<mailto:taylork...@gmail.com> wrote:
Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The Trump 
tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the tariffs, not the 
seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are supposedly sending me 
a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, to pay an import tariff on 
the goods.

They require the following information:
1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!

On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:
I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on an 
opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site shortly 
thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday I pulled the 
trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got a FedEx 
tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool my Atlantis 
is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in Tokyo last year 
and I haven't felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a long time. Thanks 
to those who alerted us to Blue Lug's 
stock![https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/attach/81bf03c382122/IMG_0051.jpeg?part=0.1&view=1]
On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 6:09:04 AM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that color way. 
My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person.

I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the larger 
one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a soma porta 
folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger wald basket and it's nearly 
perfect for me.
On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
[https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/attach/79fa1f8b1b0c2/IMG_3310.jpeg?part=0.1&view=1]Ok
 Josh, here’s proof (hopefully). My attempt at capturing the metallic nature of 
the paint job doesn’t come out well with my iPhone so these will have to 
suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake down, so some things will probably 
change at some point.
Mike

On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/73943661-7bee-4cc9-a397-4b612f87bd3en%40googlegroups.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/73943661-7bee-4cc9-a397-4b612f87bd3en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CH2PR17MB3720A2BA4ACCA0BFEA353E6BCD832%40CH2PR17MB3720.namprd17.prod.outlook.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Scott G.]

HTS codes link
Have fun or hire a lawyer.

https://rulings.cbp.gov/search?term=bicycle%20frame&collection=ALL&sortBy=RELEVANCE&pageSize=30&page=1

This not legal advice,  
the message is covered under the Papal Encyclical of 1541.



On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 7:41:18 PM UTC-4 taylork...@gmail.com wrote:

> Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The 
> Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the 
> tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are 
> supposedly sending me a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, 
> to pay an import tariff on the goods.
>
> They require the following information:
> 1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
> 2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
> 3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
> 4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
> 5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!
>
> On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:
>
>> I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on 
>> an opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site 
>> shortly thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday I 
>> pulled the trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got 
>> a FedEx tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool 
>> my Atlantis is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in 
>> Tokyo last year and I haven't felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a 
>> long time. Thanks to those who alerted us to Blue Lug's stock![image: 
>> IMG_0051.jpeg]
>>
>> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 6:09:04 AM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that 
>>> color way. My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person. 
>>>
>>> I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the 
>>> larger one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a 
>>> soma porta folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger wald basket and 
>>> it's nearly perfect for me. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>>>
 [image: IMG_3310.jpeg]Ok Josh, here’s proof (hopefully). My attempt at 
 capturing the metallic nature of the paint job doesn’t come out well with 
 my iPhone so these will have to suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake 
 down, so some things will probably change at some point.
 Mike


 On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:

 Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/73943661-7bee-4cc9-a397-4b612f87bd3en%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Taylor Kurosaki]

Be aware, my Blue Lug Atlantis frameset is now stuck in US customs! The 
Trump tariffs are real and it's no joke that the "importer" pays the 
tariffs, not the seller. I just got off the phone with FedEx and they are 
supposedly sending me a form to be able to clear customs, and ostensibly, 
to pay an import tariff on the goods.

They require the following information:
1. Description of the goods: It’s a bicycle frame.
2. What are the items made of: made of steel, 100%
3. What is the item used for: it’s a bicycle, it’s made for riding
4. 10 digit harmonized US tariff number?: no idea how to find this
5. EIN or SSN of the importer: I guess that's me!

On Saturday, April 26, 2025 at 9:10:45 AM UTC-7 Taylor Kurosaki wrote:

> I was also incredibly excited for the Atlantis presale and missed out on 
> an opportunity to snag a blue Atlantis. I even went to Blue Lug's site 
> shortly thereafter and was disappointed they had no stock. Yesterday I 
> pulled the trigger on a 59cm in Sergio Green from Blue Lug and already got 
> a FedEx tracking number. Couldn't be more excited and think it's kinda cool 
> my Atlantis is coming from them. I stopped by their Yoyogi Park store in 
> Tokyo last year and I haven't felt so much like a kid in a candy store in a 
> long time. Thanks to those who alerted us to Blue Lug's stock![image: 
> IMG_0051.jpeg]
>
> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 6:09:04 AM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>
>> That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that color 
>> way. My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person. 
>>
>> I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the 
>> larger one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a 
>> soma porta folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger wald basket and 
>> it's nearly perfect for me. 
>>
>> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_3310.jpeg]Ok Josh, here’s proof (hopefully). My attempt at 
>>> capturing the metallic nature of the paint job doesn’t come out well with 
>>> my iPhone so these will have to suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake 
>>> down, so some things will probably change at some point.
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c23b4484-78d6-4025-a238-bd10e467fa5bn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Josh C]

That's what I'm talk'n about, Mike. Killer setup. I'm a fan of that color 
way. My wife's platty is in that color and it looks great in person. 

I run that same outer shell basket bag for my daily commutes. I have the 
larger one, I believe it's called the rack bag, and I used to run it on a 
soma porta folder rack, but now I just put it in the larger wald basket and 
it's nearly perfect for me. 

On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 10:12:49 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:

> [image: IMG_3310.jpeg]Ok Josh, here’s proof (hopefully). My attempt at 
> capturing the metallic nature of the paint job doesn’t come out well with 
> my iPhone so these will have to suffice. Today’s ride was just a shake 
> down, so some things will probably change at some point.
> Mike
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 7:18:05 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>
> Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/47d08089-8ff7-4ce1-a31f-e1790f9652c5n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Spencer]

No worries! Mine got approved out of order as well so it reads kinda
confusing as well. Just placed my order today - looking at more of the
Sergio Green pics and I had to jump on it (missed the original presale).
Thanks for including what you put in the statement as well - will be using
something along those lines.

Spencer

On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 10:00 PM Mike Gillespie 
wrote:

> Sorry for my confusing post. For whatever reason, they were listed in the
> wrong order as I wrote this message below last Friday when they became
> available for order. However, to answer your question, there were no extra
> fees or tariffs, not even a sales tax. Only shipping, which was $118. I did
> get a call from FedEx requesting I fill out a customs form 5106 along with
> a statement regarding “end-use, and primary material composition”. I
> basically replied “bicycle frame and fork for personal use only, and steel
> tubing”. Overall everything went smoothly and I’m totally satisfied.
> Mike G
>
> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 4:57:10 PM UTC-7 Spencer wrote:
>
> I see this and your message above and am a bit confused. Did you end up
> actually getting the frame and end up not having to pay any tariffs? Been
> digging in and it looks like personal import under $2500 + bike frames from
> Japan may dodge any regular import fees:
> https://hts.usitc.gov/search?query=8714.91.20 and
> https://usacustomsclearance.com/process/import-costs-from-japan/, but am
> not sure if any additional tariffs apply or not with all the recent stuff
> so hesitant to pull the trigger.
>
> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 2:44:40 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
> I’ve been keeping a close eye on the Blue Lug site ever since missing out
> on the pre-sale, and after others here mentioned them as an alternative
> source. A few weeks ago they were posted as available on their site but
> only for “in-store sale”. Then a couple of weeks ago the price increased
> (about $120 or so). Well as today they’re available for sale on the site.
> All sizes currently in stock. Unfortunately for some, only in the Sergio
> green color (traditional blue/green sold out).
>
> Since the Sergio green happened to be my color of choice, I’m all in! Now,
> just wondering if there will be an additional tariff or if that earlier
> price increase was actually the tariff charge? Shipping was a reasonable
> $118 for 2-3 day arrival via fedex.
>
> Anyway, just a heads up to anyone else who might be interested.
> Mike
> Sequim, WA
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f8d06e2b-2173-449f-b19a-2d3d653f6913n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAEGKrWqzNWbpAFyjVbDCyea1c6RQ9uMmDF5NvVZ4yLXL9H4W%2Bw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Mike Gillespie]

Sorry for my confusing post. For whatever reason, they were listed in the 
wrong order as I wrote this message below last Friday when they became 
available for order. However, to answer your question, there were no extra 
fees or tariffs, not even a sales tax. Only shipping, which was $118. I did 
get a call from FedEx requesting I fill out a customs form 5106 along with 
a statement regarding “end-use, and primary material composition”. I 
basically replied “bicycle frame and fork for personal use only, and steel 
tubing”. Overall everything went smoothly and I’m totally satisfied.
Mike G

On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 4:57:10 PM UTC-7 Spencer wrote:

I see this and your message above and am a bit confused. Did you end up 
actually getting the frame and end up not having to pay any tariffs? Been 
digging in and it looks like personal import under $2500 + bike frames from 
Japan may dodge any regular import fees: 
https://hts.usitc.gov/search?query=8714.91.20 and 
https://usacustomsclearance.com/process/import-costs-from-japan/, but am 
not sure if any additional tariffs apply or not with all the recent stuff 
so hesitant to pull the trigger.

On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 2:44:40 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:

Hi Folks,
I’ve been keeping a close eye on the Blue Lug site ever since missing out 
on the pre-sale, and after others here mentioned them as an alternative 
source. A few weeks ago they were posted as available on their site but 
only for “in-store sale”. Then a couple of weeks ago the price increased 
(about $120 or so). Well as today they’re available for sale on the site. 
All sizes currently in stock. Unfortunately for some, only in the Sergio 
green color (traditional blue/green sold out).

Since the Sergio green happened to be my color of choice, I’m all in! Now, 
just wondering if there will be an additional tariff or if that earlier 
price increase was actually the tariff charge? Shipping was a reasonable 
$118 for 2-3 day arrival via fedex.

Anyway, just a heads up to anyone else who might be interested.
Mike
Sequim, WA


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f8d06e2b-2173-449f-b19a-2d3d653f6913n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Spencer]

I see this and your message above and am a bit confused. Did you end up 
actually getting the frame and end up not having to pay any tariffs? Been 
digging in and it looks like personal import under $2500 + bike frames from 
Japan may dodge any regular import fees: 
https://hts.usitc.gov/search?query=8714.91.20 and 
https://usacustomsclearance.com/process/import-costs-from-japan/, but am 
not sure if any additional tariffs apply or not with all the recent stuff 
so hesitant to pull the trigger.

On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 2:44:40 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> I’ve been keeping a close eye on the Blue Lug site ever since missing out 
> on the pre-sale, and after others here mentioned them as an alternative 
> source. A few weeks ago they were posted as available on their site but 
> only for “in-store sale”. Then a couple of weeks ago the price increased 
> (about $120 or so). Well as today they’re available for sale on the site. 
> All sizes currently in stock. Unfortunately for some, only in the Sergio 
> green color (traditional blue/green sold out).
>
> Since the Sergio green happened to be my color of choice, I’m all in! Now, 
> just wondering if there will be an additional tariff or if that earlier 
> price increase was actually the tariff charge? Shipping was a reasonable 
> $118 for 2-3 day arrival via fedex.
>
> Anyway, just a heads up to anyone else who might be interested.
> Mike
> Sequim, WA
> On Monday, March 31, 2025 at 5:07:59 AM UTC-7 feliks...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Most Riv dealers get their frames directly from the factory, not via Riv 
>> HQ as I understand it. Blue Lug has traditionally received their frames 
>> very early due to their proximity to Taiwan. They have had frames for sale 
>> quite early in the past, but they just posted that they will not be selling 
>> the Atlantis frames online, but through in-store raffles only. 
>>
>> On Sunday, 30 March 2025 at 23:35:18 UTC+2 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>>
>>> I know of at least one European dealer who has got their Atlantis frames 
>>> already. I would have thought shipping times were similar for Taiwan -> USA 
>>> (via Pacific Ocean) and Taiwan -> Europe (via Suez Canal)
>>>
>>> El dom, 30 mar 2025 a las 20:54,  escribió:
>>>
 They were building up frames. I assume they were from the new batch but 
 I didn’t ask. 

 Robert Tilley
 San Diego, CA

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 30, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Mike in BK  wrote:

 Hi Robert,

 Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, 
 but Riv didn't even get them yet, right?

 On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:

> I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis 
> frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either 
> being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see if 
> any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not since 
> time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:
>
> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
> I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been 
> a long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to 
> die 
> for.  But still, wow. 
>
>
>
> Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they 
> are receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. 
> They seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a 
> pretty similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. 
>
> And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a 
> customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid 
> running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if 
> they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to 
> store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and 
> I 
> really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for 
> sure, 
> especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope 
> Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! 
>
> On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
>> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La 
>> Chouette 
>> in France.
>>
>> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot 
>> more for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include 
>> import 
>> duties from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay impor

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Spencer]

I just ordered a 53 Atlantis from Blue Lug, I'll report back and let ya'll 
know if I get hit with any surprises in a week xD Super excited

On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 5:07:39 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I just made a $400 order from BL. Shipping was $43 and about $30 for BC 
> gst/pst which is in line with the province. No unexpected charges 
> thankfully (DHL was inconsistent). I do miss DHL's delivery on demand. 
> Fedex isn't quite as user friendly. 
>
> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 1:39:15 PM UTC-7 grbi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I got mine delivered today  - sergio green from BL - total was  around 
>> $1980.
>>
>> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 1:18:15 PM UTC-7 psc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Bluelug price didn't go up, the dollar went down!  Still, grab it while 
>>> you can...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 2:44:40 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>>>
>>> A few weeks ago they were posted as available on their site but only for 
>>> “in-store sale”. Then a couple of weeks ago the price increased (about $120 
>>> or so). 
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9821874b-fb9a-48d9-8fe3-fb054756e54bn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Mackenzy Albright]

I just made a $400 order from BL. Shipping was $43 and about $30 for BC 
gst/pst which is in line with the province. No unexpected charges 
thankfully (DHL was inconsistent). I do miss DHL's delivery on demand. 
Fedex isn't quite as user friendly. 

On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 1:39:15 PM UTC-7 grbi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I got mine delivered today  - sergio green from BL - total was  around 
> $1980.
>
> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 1:18:15 PM UTC-7 psc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Bluelug price didn't go up, the dollar went down!  Still, grab it while 
>> you can...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 2:44:40 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>>
>> A few weeks ago they were posted as available on their site but only for 
>> “in-store sale”. Then a couple of weeks ago the price increased (about $120 
>> or so). 
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/92e14441-1d2d-4f42-9d4b-19710d25449cn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[G Ram]

I got mine delivered today  - sergio green from BL - total was  around 
$1980.

On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 1:18:15 PM UTC-7 psc...@gmail.com wrote:

> Bluelug price didn't go up, the dollar went down!  Still, grab it while 
> you can...
>
>
>
> On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 2:44:40 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:
>
> A few weeks ago they were posted as available on their site but only for 
> “in-store sale”. Then a couple of weeks ago the price increased (about $120 
> or so). 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/374c95d9-4b6f-4dc9-bdcc-c0f56777cb1dn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[scott minor]

Bluelug price didn't go up, the dollar went down!  Still, grab it while you 
can...



On Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 2:44:40 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:

A few weeks ago they were posted as available on their site but only for 
“in-store sale”. Then a couple of weeks ago the price increased (about $120 
or so). 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f0991396-5a9a-4ed8-8dfa-fcb9dcb4ff71n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Mike Gillespie]

Hi Folks,
I’ve been keeping a close eye on the Blue Lug site ever since missing out 
on the pre-sale, and after others here mentioned them as an alternative 
source. A few weeks ago they were posted as available on their site but 
only for “in-store sale”. Then a couple of weeks ago the price increased 
(about $120 or so). Well as today they’re available for sale on the site. 
All sizes currently in stock. Unfortunately for some, only in the Sergio 
green color (traditional blue/green sold out).

Since the Sergio green happened to be my color of choice, I’m all in! Now, 
just wondering if there will be an additional tariff or if that earlier 
price increase was actually the tariff charge? Shipping was a reasonable 
$118 for 2-3 day arrival via fedex.

Anyway, just a heads up to anyone else who might be interested.
Mike
Sequim, WA
On Monday, March 31, 2025 at 5:07:59 AM UTC-7 feliks...@gmail.com wrote:

> Most Riv dealers get their frames directly from the factory, not via Riv 
> HQ as I understand it. Blue Lug has traditionally received their frames 
> very early due to their proximity to Taiwan. They have had frames for sale 
> quite early in the past, but they just posted that they will not be selling 
> the Atlantis frames online, but through in-store raffles only. 
>
> On Sunday, 30 March 2025 at 23:35:18 UTC+2 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>
>> I know of at least one European dealer who has got their Atlantis frames 
>> already. I would have thought shipping times were similar for Taiwan -> USA 
>> (via Pacific Ocean) and Taiwan -> Europe (via Suez Canal)
>>
>> El dom, 30 mar 2025 a las 20:54,  escribió:
>>
>>> They were building up frames. I assume they were from the new batch but 
>>> I didn’t ask. 
>>>
>>> Robert Tilley
>>> San Diego, CA
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Mike in BK  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Robert,
>>>
>>> Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, but 
>>> Riv didn't even get them yet, right?
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:
>>>
 I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis 
 frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either 
 being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see if 
 any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not since 
 time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:

 [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]

 Robert Tilley
 San Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:

 I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been a 
 long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to die 
 for.  But still, wow. 



 Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they 
 are receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. 
 They seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a 
 pretty similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. 

 And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a 
 customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid 
 running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if 
 they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to 
 store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and I 
 really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for sure, 
 especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope 
 Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! 

 On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund 
 wrote:

> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La 
> Chouette 
> in France.
>
> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more 
> for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import 
> duties 
> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get 
> it 
> back to USA.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>
>> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>>
>>> "Hi Drew, 
>>>
>>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the 
>>> Ro

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Josh C]

Mike, pics...or it didn't happen.

On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 9:42:55 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:

> They became available last Friday and I couldn’t resist.  Well, it arrived 
> today, and I’m more than happy! The Sergio green is stunning, especially in 
> sunlight.  There’s a pearl-like iridescence which isn’t apparent in photos. 
> After seeing Atlantis’ in submarine green for 26 years (wow, that long) I 
> was tending towards that option anyway when I missed out on any pre-sale. I 
> was kinda worried about getting hit with a tariff change, but gladly there 
> was none. It did get stuck in customs for about half a day and FedEx 
> emailed a form to fill out, but otherwise all went smoothly. If you’re 
> still considering an Atlantis I think you’ll be pleased.
> Mike G.
>
> On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 5:05:51 AM UTC-7 Drew Fitchette wrote:
>
>> As mentioned in another thread in case anyone here missed it. Blue Lug 
>> has most sizes in Sergio green in stock here:
>>
>>
>> https://global.bluelug.com/rivendell-atlantis-frame-set-sergio-green-1.html
>>
>> Go grab one if you missed out, and can stomach not having the traditional 
>> submarine paint job!
>>
>> On Monday, March 31, 2025 at 8:07:59 AM UTC-4 feliks...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Most Riv dealers get their frames directly from the factory, not via Riv 
>>> HQ as I understand it. Blue Lug has traditionally received their frames 
>>> very early due to their proximity to Taiwan. They have had frames for sale 
>>> quite early in the past, but they just posted that they will not be selling 
>>> the Atlantis frames online, but through in-store raffles only. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 30 March 2025 at 23:35:18 UTC+2 der_amerikanische_freund 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I know of at least one European dealer who has got their Atlantis 
 frames already. I would have thought shipping times were similar for 
 Taiwan 
 -> USA (via Pacific Ocean) and Taiwan -> Europe (via Suez Canal)

 El dom, 30 mar 2025 a las 20:54,  escribió:

> They were building up frames. I assume they were from the new batch 
> but I didn’t ask. 
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 30, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Mike in BK  wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, 
> but Riv didn't even get them yet, right?
>
> On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:
>
>> I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis 
>> frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either 
>> being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see 
>> if 
>> any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not 
>> since 
>> time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:
>>
>> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>> I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been 
>> a long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to 
>> die 
>> for.  But still, wow. 
>>
>>
>>
>> Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they 
>> are receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. 
>> They seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at 
>> a 
>> pretty similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. 
>>
>> And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a 
>> customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid 
>> running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and 
>> if 
>> they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to 
>> store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and 
>> I 
>> really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for 
>> sure, 
>> especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again 
>> hope 
>> Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! 
>>
>> On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
>>> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La 
>>> Chouette 
>>> in France.
>>>
>>> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot 
>>> more for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include 
>>> import 
>>> duties from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again 
>>> to 
>>> get it back to USA.
>>>
>>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay es

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Mike Gillespie]

They became available last Friday and I couldn’t resist.  Well, it arrived 
today, and I’m more than happy! The Sergio green is stunning, especially in 
sunlight.  There’s a pearl-like iridescence which isn’t apparent in photos. 
After seeing Atlantis’ in submarine green for 26 years (wow, that long) I 
was tending towards that option anyway when I missed out on any pre-sale. I 
was kinda worried about getting hit with a tariff change, but gladly there 
was none. It did get stuck in customs for about half a day and FedEx 
emailed a form to fill out, but otherwise all went smoothly. If you’re 
still considering an Atlantis I think you’ll be pleased.
Mike G.

On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 5:05:51 AM UTC-7 Drew Fitchette wrote:

> As mentioned in another thread in case anyone here missed it. Blue Lug has 
> most sizes in Sergio green in stock here:
>
> https://global.bluelug.com/rivendell-atlantis-frame-set-sergio-green-1.html
>
> Go grab one if you missed out, and can stomach not having the traditional 
> submarine paint job!
>
> On Monday, March 31, 2025 at 8:07:59 AM UTC-4 feliks...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Most Riv dealers get their frames directly from the factory, not via Riv 
>> HQ as I understand it. Blue Lug has traditionally received their frames 
>> very early due to their proximity to Taiwan. They have had frames for sale 
>> quite early in the past, but they just posted that they will not be selling 
>> the Atlantis frames online, but through in-store raffles only. 
>>
>> On Sunday, 30 March 2025 at 23:35:18 UTC+2 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>>
>>> I know of at least one European dealer who has got their Atlantis frames 
>>> already. I would have thought shipping times were similar for Taiwan -> USA 
>>> (via Pacific Ocean) and Taiwan -> Europe (via Suez Canal)
>>>
>>> El dom, 30 mar 2025 a las 20:54,  escribió:
>>>
 They were building up frames. I assume they were from the new batch but 
 I didn’t ask. 

 Robert Tilley
 San Diego, CA

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 30, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Mike in BK  wrote:

 Hi Robert,

 Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, 
 but Riv didn't even get them yet, right?

 On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:

> I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis 
> frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either 
> being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see if 
> any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not since 
> time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:
>
> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
> I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been 
> a long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to 
> die 
> for.  But still, wow. 
>
>
>
> Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they 
> are receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. 
> They seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a 
> pretty similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. 
>
> And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a 
> customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid 
> running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if 
> they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to 
> store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and 
> I 
> really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for 
> sure, 
> especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope 
> Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! 
>
> On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
>> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La 
>> Chouette 
>> in France.
>>
>> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot 
>> more for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include 
>> import 
>> duties from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again 
>> to 
>> get it back to USA.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>>
>>> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Drew Fitchette]

As mentioned in another thread in case anyone here missed it. Blue Lug has 
most sizes in Sergio green in stock here:

https://global.bluelug.com/rivendell-atlantis-frame-set-sergio-green-1.html

Go grab one if you missed out, and can stomach not having the traditional 
submarine paint job!

On Monday, March 31, 2025 at 8:07:59 AM UTC-4 feliks...@gmail.com wrote:

> Most Riv dealers get their frames directly from the factory, not via Riv 
> HQ as I understand it. Blue Lug has traditionally received their frames 
> very early due to their proximity to Taiwan. They have had frames for sale 
> quite early in the past, but they just posted that they will not be selling 
> the Atlantis frames online, but through in-store raffles only. 
>
> On Sunday, 30 March 2025 at 23:35:18 UTC+2 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>
>> I know of at least one European dealer who has got their Atlantis frames 
>> already. I would have thought shipping times were similar for Taiwan -> USA 
>> (via Pacific Ocean) and Taiwan -> Europe (via Suez Canal)
>>
>> El dom, 30 mar 2025 a las 20:54,  escribió:
>>
>>> They were building up frames. I assume they were from the new batch but 
>>> I didn’t ask. 
>>>
>>> Robert Tilley
>>> San Diego, CA
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Mike in BK  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Robert,
>>>
>>> Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, but 
>>> Riv didn't even get them yet, right?
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:
>>>
 I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis 
 frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either 
 being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see if 
 any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not since 
 time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:

 [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]

 Robert Tilley
 San Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:

 I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been a 
 long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to die 
 for.  But still, wow. 



 Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they 
 are receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. 
 They seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a 
 pretty similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. 

 And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a 
 customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid 
 running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if 
 they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to 
 store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and I 
 really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for sure, 
 especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope 
 Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! 

 On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund 
 wrote:

> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La 
> Chouette 
> in France.
>
> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more 
> for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import 
> duties 
> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get 
> it 
> back to USA.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>
>> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>>
>>> "Hi Drew, 
>>>
>>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the 
>>> Roadinis.  
>>> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>>>
>>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
>>> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it 
>>> might 
>>> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 
>>> der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>>>
 I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost 
 impossible, can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other 
 dealer 
>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Kat]

There's also no Appaloosas this year - so possibly at least some of the 
demand is people who would have otherwise gone for an Appaloosa. 

On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 12:03:29 PM UTC+10 brianmark...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I have an Appaloosa so was watching the sale out of curiosity, wild how 
> quickly they went. I’d chalk it up to what, five years since the last 
> Atlantis batch?
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 7:47:48 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> @Drew,
>>
>> There is a used 59cm blue Clem on the San Fransisco Craigslist site:
>>
>>
>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/mill-valley-59cm-rivendell-clem-smith-jr/7824967277.html
>>
>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:36:27 PM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>>
>>> "Hi Drew, 
>>>
>>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  
>>> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>>>
>>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
>>> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might 
>>> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
 can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
 one on the phone?

 I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
 window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
 where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
 frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
 will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
 people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
 bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
 they can still sell the bike to a new person.

 El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:

> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough, 
>  
> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
> impressive!
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub 
>>> Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
>>> Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or 
>>> Analog?? 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 
>>> kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
 Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
 to 
 change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. 
 Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 

 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
 Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
 wrote:

> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
> 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
> because 
> of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
> 55cm 
> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 
> vs 53 
> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
> frame 
> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as 
> I will 
> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a 
> proper 
> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>
> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
> wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage 
> of that 
> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old 
> school 
> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in 
> some 
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Doug H.]

I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could ride 
a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
both colors.
Doug

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
wrote:

> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>
> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the 
> last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of my 
> liking.
>
> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their 
> height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on 
> riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome the 
> standover provided in size 55.
>
> Good luck in the presale
>
> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.  
> escribió:
>
>> I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it 
>> planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which 
>> color?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, through 
>>> blogs and blahgs and emails.
>>>  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business on 
>>> it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, the 
>>> thought process would become pretty clear.
>>>
>>> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they would 
>>> prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one immediately, and 
>>> also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two of future sales of 
>>> each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict what that number will 
>>> be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to keep them exclusive by 
>>> shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do need for customers to 
>>> act with some urgency once the shipment lands, because it locks up a lot of 
>>> cash that they can't afford to be without.
>>>
>>> The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well adds to 
>>> the difficulty.  As does their limited storage space.
>>>
>>> I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and have been there 
>>> myself.  Ever since the Great Recession, I've sort of lived hand-to-mouth, 
>>> and am not always able to make big or spontaneous or discretionary 
>>> purchases at times that coincide with Rivendell's schedule.  Probably a 
>>> good thing, in some ways.  If I could, I'd buy an Atlantis today, just to 
>>> test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size - and then probably 
>>> release it later.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:14:18 AM UTC-6 EGNolan wrote:
>>>
 It seems they're more popular, but the Riv mindset isn't to grow, it's 
 to remain sustainable. So rather than maximize sales potential, but 
 possibly sit on product for months or years, it's better to order just 
 enough to mostly sell out. 

 I get that it's frustrating not to be able to order one of any size of 
 any frame at any time, but the companies that keep that kind of stock also 
 have to charge enough initially so they still make money when they close 
 out last year's model for 50% off before they pay taxes on anything they 
 don't sell by year's end.

 I think it's easier to manage cash flow, expectations and all of the 
 plates they're spinning if they can be intentional about quantities rather 
 than having them sit around and having to figure out how to sell them. 
 They 
 used to have a lot more frames available when they had a lot more sizes of 
 each frame and had a bit less of an audience. I don't think quantities 
 have 
 been reduced, I think variables (like number of sizes per bike, custom 
 paint, etc.) have, which make them easier to sell. 

 Sustainable business practices don't always feel "good for the 
 consumer" but I'd rather have Rivendell Bicycle Works around than have the 
 option to buy a frame in my size at any time if it meant they went buh-bye.

 $.02

 Best,
 Eric
 Indpls

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:45:04 AM UTC-4 Andy Beichler wrote:

> Doug, I don't have any insight but perhaps someone here, does.  Has 
> Rivendell started making smaller orders or are they just more popular? 
> Either of those could cause low inventory situations. As someone who has 
> bought parts but never a frame from Rivendell, the main issue for me with 
> low inventory is that I can't endlessly do the pro/con rundown in my head 
> on buying an available frame or complete.  :)
>
> Back on topic-I won't be buying an Atlantis today but I will log in 
> later to see if there is one still available in my size. 
>
> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 3:57:25 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Your points make sense, Collin. O

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Andy Beichler]

I love most of the colors that Riv offers but the Riv Blue on that Clem for 
sale in San Francisco tops the list.  I saw a 64cm Clem in that color 
online. If I could find one used, I would have a hard time saying no. If 
they ever offer the 64 in that color again, I will have to grab it.  

Note-I could easily fit the 59 but the 64 speaks to me.

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:47:48 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> @Drew,
>
> There is a used 59cm blue Clem on the San Fransisco Craigslist site:
>
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/mill-valley-59cm-rivendell-clem-smith-jr/7824967277.html
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:36:27 PM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>
>> "Hi Drew, 
>>
>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  
>> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>>
>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last round 
>> of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might be 
>> worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
>>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
>>> one on the phone?
>>>
>>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
>>> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
>>> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
>>> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
>>> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
>>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
>>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
>>> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>>>
>>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>>>
 And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
 bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  
 if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
 table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
 impressive!

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:

> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>
>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green 
>> are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
>> Hopefully 
>> you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
>>> Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
>>> to 
>>> change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. 
>>> Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>>>
>>> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
>>> Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
 because 
 of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
 55cm 
 Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 
 vs 53 
 also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
 frame 
 bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I 
 will 
 be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a 
 proper 
 mountain bike for singletrack. 

 I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
 wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of 
 that 
 massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
 mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
 Honjo flat fenders. 

 As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
 From a behavioral design perspective, it easily 

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Armand Kizirian]

Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! Was 
ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. 

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:

> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" 
> with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of my 
> 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 55cm 
> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 53 
> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half frame 
> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I will 
> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>
> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I wish 
> they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of that 
> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
> Honjo flat fenders. 
>
> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. From a 
> behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on the fence of 
> purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't *need* an 
> Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But because I know I 
> want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and that "some point" is in 
> these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. Limited availability 
> and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary psychology when it comes to 
> objects of need or desire. More businesses need to be content with their 
> size, and evolve just enough to account for inflation and rising wages, 
> like Rivendell do. 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
>> likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could ride 
>> a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
>> both colors.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>>>
>>> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the 
>>> last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of my 
>>> liking.
>>>
>>> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their 
>>> height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on 
>>> riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome the 
>>> standover provided in size 55.
>>>
>>> Good luck in the presale
>>>
>>> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.  
>>> escribió:
>>>
 I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it 
 planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which 
 color?
 Doug

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:

> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, through 
> blogs and blahgs and emails.
>  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business on 
> it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, the 
> thought process would become pretty clear.
>
> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they 
> would prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one 
> immediately, and also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two 
> of 
> future sales of each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict what 
> that number will be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to keep 
> them exclusive by shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do 
> need for customers to act with some urgency once the shipment lands, 
> because it locks up a lot of cash that they can't afford to be without.
>
> The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well adds to 
> the difficulty.  As does their limited storage space.
>
> I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and have been there 
> myself.  Ever since the Great Recession, I've sort of lived 
> hand-to-mouth, 
> and am not always able to make big or spontaneous or discretionary 
> purchases at times that coincide with Rivendell's schedule.  Probably a 
> good thing, in some ways.  If I could, I'd buy an Atlantis today, just to 
> test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size - and then probably 
> release it later.
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:14:18 AM UTC-6 EGNolan wrote:
>
>> It seems they're more popular, but the Riv mindset isn't to grow, 
>> i

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[iamkeith]

And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd bet it 
would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  if they 
felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the table.  
Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's impressive!

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:

> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>
>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green are 
>> sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully you 
>> can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! 
>>> Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
>>> shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want one 
>>> should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>>>
>>> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! Insane. I 
>>> wonder what quantities they had available. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:
>>>
 I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" 
 with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of my 
 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 55cm 
 Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 
 53 
 also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
 frame 
 bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I 
 will 
 be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
 mountain bike for singletrack. 

 I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I wish 
 they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of that 
 massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
 mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
 Honjo flat fenders. 

 As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
 From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on the 
 fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't 
 *need* an Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But 
 because I know I want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and that 
 "some point" is in these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. 
 Limited availability and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary 
 psychology when it comes to objects of need or desire. More businesses 
 need 
 to be content with their size, and evolve just enough to account for 
 inflation and rising wages, like Rivendell do. 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
> likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could 
> ride 
> a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
> both colors.
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 
> der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>
>> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>>
>> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked 
>> the last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t 
>> quite 
>> of my liking.
>>
>> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in 
>> their height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I 
>> plan 
>> on riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d 
>> welcome 
>> the standover provided in size 55.
>>
>> Good luck in the presale
>>
>> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.  
>> escribió:
>>
>>> I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it 
>>> planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which 
>>> color?
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, 
 through blogs and blahgs and emails.
  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business 
 on it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, 
 the 
 thought process would become pretty clear.

 My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they 
 would prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wa

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Jay]

It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
> complete/frame) and got this response:
>
> "Hi Drew, 
>
> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  
> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>
> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last round 
> of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might be 
> worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
>> one on the phone?
>>
>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
>> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
>> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
>> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
>> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
>> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>>
>>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd bet 
>>> it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  if 
>>> they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
>>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
>>> impressive!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
 Doug

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:

> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green 
> are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully 
> you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! 
>> Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
>> shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want 
>> one 
>> should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>>
>> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
>> Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
>>> 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
>>> because 
>>> of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
>>> 55cm 
>>> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 
>>> vs 53 
>>> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
>>> frame 
>>> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I 
>>> will 
>>> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a 
>>> proper 
>>> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>>>
>>> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
>>> wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of 
>>> that 
>>> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
>>> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
>>> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
>>> Honjo flat fenders. 
>>>
>>> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
>>> From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on 
>>> the 
>>> fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't 
>>> *need* an Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But 
>>> because I know I want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and 
>>> that 
>>> "some point" is in these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. 
>>> Limited availability and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary 
>>> psychology when it comes to objects of need or desire. More businesses 
>>> need 
>>> to be content with their size, and evolve just enough to account for 
>>> inflation and rising wages, like Rivendell d

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Dorothy C]

Alfonso, from what I understand Blue Lug get their frames direct from 
Taiwan. There is no pre import to the US and back out to Japan. 

Not in the market as I have 6 Rivs already, but I was idly wondering what 
it would take to rebuild my 47 650b Roadini to an Atlantis. Currently have 
46cm Appa ( comfortable) , 47cm Roadini ( too small), 50cm tigged Roadini, 
50 cm lugged Roadini, 50 cm Platy and 55 cm Cheviot, the latter four being 
perfect in size.

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 8:38:16 PM UTC-7 Kat wrote:

> There's also no Appaloosas this year - so possibly at least some of the 
> demand is people who would have otherwise gone for an Appaloosa. 
>
> On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 12:03:29 PM UTC+10 brianmark...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I have an Appaloosa so was watching the sale out of curiosity, wild how 
>> quickly they went. I’d chalk it up to what, five years since the last 
>> Atlantis batch?
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 7:47:48 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> @Drew,
>>>
>>> There is a used 59cm blue Clem on the San Fransisco Craigslist site:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/mill-valley-59cm-rivendell-clem-smith-jr/7824967277.html
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:36:27 PM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
 complete/frame) and got this response:

 "Hi Drew, 

 Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
 temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
 back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis. 
  
 So no clems, I'm sorry!"

 Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
 round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might 
 be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 
 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
> one on the phone?
>
> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year 
> before) 
> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and 
> they 
> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If 
> someone 
> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>
>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have 
>> enough,  
>> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on 
>> the 
>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
>> impressive!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub 
 Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
 Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug 
 or 
 Analog?? 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 
 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:

> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
> Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
> to 
> change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first 
> minute. 
> Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>
> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
> Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
> wrote:
>
>> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
>> 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
>> because 
>> of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with 
>> the 55cm 
>> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 
>> 55 vs 53 
>> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom 
>> half frame 
>> bag

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Feliks Ulvåen Isaksen]

Most Riv dealers get their frames directly from the factory, not via Riv HQ 
as I understand it. Blue Lug has traditionally received their frames very 
early due to their proximity to Taiwan. They have had frames for sale quite 
early in the past, but they just posted that they will not be selling the 
Atlantis frames online, but through in-store raffles only. 

On Sunday, 30 March 2025 at 23:35:18 UTC+2 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

> I know of at least one European dealer who has got their Atlantis frames 
> already. I would have thought shipping times were similar for Taiwan -> USA 
> (via Pacific Ocean) and Taiwan -> Europe (via Suez Canal)
>
> El dom, 30 mar 2025 a las 20:54,  escribió:
>
>> They were building up frames. I assume they were from the new batch but I 
>> didn’t ask. 
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 30, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Mike in BK  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, but 
>> Riv didn't even get them yet, right?
>>
>> On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:
>>
>>> I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis 
>>> frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either 
>>> being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see if 
>>> any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not since 
>>> time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:
>>>
>>> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Robert Tilley
>>> San Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>>
>>> I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been a 
>>> long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to die 
>>> for.  But still, wow. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they 
>>> are receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. 
>>> They seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a 
>>> pretty similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. 
>>>
>>> And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a 
>>> customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid 
>>> running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if 
>>> they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to 
>>> store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and I 
>>> really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for sure, 
>>> especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope 
>>> Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
 dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette 
 in France.

 I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more 
 for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import 
 duties 
 from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it 
 back to USA.

 El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:

> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>
>> "Hi Drew, 
>>
>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the 
>> Roadinis.  
>> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>>
>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
>> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it 
>> might 
>> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 
>> der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
>>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and 
>>> reserve 
>>> one on the phone?
>>>
>>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a 
>>> time window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year 
>>> before) where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know 
>>> how 
>>> many frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, 
>>> and 
>>> they will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), 
>>> and 
>>> peop

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Alfonso Saco Díaz]

I know of at least one European dealer who has got their Atlantis frames
already. I would have thought shipping times were similar for Taiwan -> USA
(via Pacific Ocean) and Taiwan -> Europe (via Suez Canal)

El dom, 30 mar 2025 a las 20:54,  escribió:

> They were building up frames. I assume they were from the new batch but I
> didn’t ask.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 30, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Mike in BK  wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, but
> Riv didn't even get them yet, right?
>
> On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:
>
>> I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis
>> frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either
>> being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see if
>> any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not since
>> time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:
>>
>> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>> I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been a
>> long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to die
>> for.  But still, wow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they are
>> receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. They
>> seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a pretty
>> similar landed price to getting directly from Riv.
>>
>> And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a
>> customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid
>> running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if
>> they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to
>> store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and I
>> really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for sure,
>> especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope
>> Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen!
>>
>> On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of
>>> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette
>>> in France.
>>>
>>> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more
>>> for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties
>>> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it
>>> back to USA.
>>>
>>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>>>
 It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm
> complete/frame) and got this response:
>
> "Hi Drew,
>
> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has
> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's
> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.
> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>
> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last
> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might
> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4
> der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>
>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible,
>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve
>> one on the phone?
>>
>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a
>> time window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year
>> before) where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know 
>> how
>> many frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, 
>> and
>> they will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), 
>> and
>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If 
>> someone
>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus
>> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>>
>>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd
>>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have 
>>> enough,
>>> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on 
>>> the
>>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Mike in BK]

Hi Robert,

Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, but 
Riv didn't even get them yet, right?

On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:

> I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis 
> frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either 
> being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see if 
> any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not since 
> time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:
>
> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
> I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been a 
> long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to die 
> for.  But still, wow. 
>
>
>
> Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they are 
> receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. They 
> seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a pretty 
> similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. 
>
> And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a 
> customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid 
> running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if 
> they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to 
> store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and I 
> really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for sure, 
> especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope 
> Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! 
>
> On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
>> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette 
>> in France.
>>
>> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more 
>> for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties 
>> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it 
>> back to USA.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>>
>>> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
 complete/frame) and got this response:

 "Hi Drew, 

 Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
 temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
 back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis. 
  
 So no clems, I'm sorry!"

 Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
 round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might 
 be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 
 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
> one on the phone?
>
> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year 
> before) 
> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and 
> they 
> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If 
> someone 
> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>
>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have 
>> enough,  
>> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on 
>> the 
>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
>> impressive!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub 
 Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
 Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug 
>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[rltilley]

They were building up frames. I assume they were from the new batch but I didn’t ask. Robert TilleySan Diego, CASent from my iPhoneOn Mar 30, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Mike in BK  wrote:Hi Robert,Blue Lug got the Atlantis frames already? They are closer to Taiwan, but Riv didn't even get them yet, right?On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 6:27:27 AM UTC-4 Robert Tilley wrote:I was just at the Blue Lug in Yoyogi Park and they did have Atlantis frames there. I am not sure if all are claimed but all I saw were either being built up or already assembled. I did not take a good look to see if any of the frames hanging from the roof were Atlantis frames or not since time was limited.  Here are a couple of pics:Robert TilleySan Diego, CA (but currently in Tokyo)Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 21, 2025, at 9:24 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been a long time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to die for.  But still, wow. Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they are receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. They seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a pretty similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and I really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for sure, especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette in France.I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it back to USA.El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm complete/frame) and got this response:"Hi Drew, Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  So no clems, I'm sorry!"Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve one on the phone?I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus they can still sell the bike to a new person.El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's impressive!On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.DougOn Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:
Apparently I do not have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to
 change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in bot

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Menos Joven]

  I wonder if there are factory capacity constraints in Taiwan such as 
size, materials, or skilled frame builders. Riv definitely wouldn’t 
compromise quality. If not, I think the suggestion of non refundable 
deposits is a good one for model size and color. Of course I’d hope they 
would have enough demand for the model size and color I want. :) 2025 will 
not offer the color I want and with no guarantee with regards to color in 
2026, let alone the current 5 minute dash procedure, I am definitely 
considering letting go of the Riv dream and riding something else or what I 
already have.
On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:25:46 PM UTC-7 Kat wrote:

> That was lightning fast! Everything gone now. Sorry to those who missed 
> out. Interesting to hear that they are suspending dealer sales, I am in 
> fact interested in the non-interesting reasons. I do wonder whether non-US 
> dealers are included in that. 
>
> Anyone here who did snag one? What are your plans? Frame swap, Riv build, 
> local build?
>
> Alfonso - A pre-pre-sale would be an interesting idea. Then they could 
> order Y frames (Y = number of people who pre-pre-ordered) + X frames (X = 
> number for dealers, extra number for those who didn't pre-pre-order). I 
> imagine the lead times would be in the years rather than months though. 
>
> On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 10:15:14 AM UTC+10 der_amerikanische_freund 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
>> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette 
>> in France.
>>
>> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more 
>> for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties 
>> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it 
>> back to USA.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>>
>>> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
 complete/frame) and got this response:

 "Hi Drew, 

 Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
 temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
 back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis. 
  
 So no clems, I'm sorry!"

 Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
 round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might 
 be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 
 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
> one on the phone?
>
> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year 
> before) 
> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and 
> they 
> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If 
> someone 
> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>
>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have 
>> enough,  
>> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on 
>> the 
>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
>> impressive!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub 
 Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
 Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug 
 or 
 Analog?? 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 
 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:

> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
> Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
> to 
> change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first 
> minute. 
> Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Jason Fuller]

I have to imagine that their suppliers in Taiwan are also managing a 
delicate balance between various customers and the option to increase an 
order quantity on an upcoming batch is probably closed looong in advance.  
A 'build to order' preorder sounds great for a patient and forward-planning 
customer, but I think that Grant would hate to take people's money that far 
in advance and be responsible for it.  

Looking at the 2025 schedule, some good alternatives coming - a sage 
Hillborne??  Perfection! 


On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:25:46 UTC-7 Kat wrote:

> That was lightning fast! Everything gone now. Sorry to those who missed 
> out. Interesting to hear that they are suspending dealer sales, I am in 
> fact interested in the non-interesting reasons. I do wonder whether non-US 
> dealers are included in that. 
>
> Anyone here who did snag one? What are your plans? Frame swap, Riv build, 
> local build?
>
> Alfonso - A pre-pre-sale would be an interesting idea. Then they could 
> order Y frames (Y = number of people who pre-pre-ordered) + X frames (X = 
> number for dealers, extra number for those who didn't pre-pre-order). I 
> imagine the lead times would be in the years rather than months though. 
>
> On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 10:15:14 AM UTC+10 der_amerikanische_freund 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
>> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette 
>> in France.
>>
>> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more 
>> for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties 
>> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it 
>> back to USA.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>>
>>> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
 complete/frame) and got this response:

 "Hi Drew, 

 Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
 temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
 back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis. 
  
 So no clems, I'm sorry!"

 Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
 round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might 
 be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 
 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
> one on the phone?
>
> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year 
> before) 
> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and 
> they 
> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If 
> someone 
> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>
>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have 
>> enough,  
>> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on 
>> the 
>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
>> impressive!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub 
 Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
 Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug 
 or 
 Analog?? 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 
 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:

> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
> Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
> to 
> change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first 
> minute. 
> Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>
> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Kim H.]

Hi Drew,

My apologies for being so late in replying to your post of gratitude. I
want to say you are more than welcome. I was taken with awe over the
beautiful blue color of the frameset for the first time from the pictures.
I hope everything you anticipate about owning an Atlantis comes true with a
lot of wonderful and memorable experiences.

Long may you ride,
Kim Hetzel.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 6:23 AM Drew Fitchette 
wrote:

> Kim - I may have actually taken advantage of the other Clem post you so
> graciously put on the Craigslist thread. The owner dropped it off at Blue
> Heron Bike Shop for me on Tuesday and it's on it's way to Atlanta now. So I
> already owe you many thanks!
>
> I second Mike's experience with Blue Lug. I ordered my Appa frame from
> them and it was very price competitive with Riv despite being shipped DHL
> from Japan. I also didn't have to pay any import fee/duty on the frame. So
> it's definitely worth keeping an eye on their global web store for these to
> pop up.
>
> I also agree with Kat's thought on the fact that there won't be any
> Appaloosa's this year either. So those who have been holding out for an
> Atlantis will have gone Submarine Green, and those who would've bought an
> Appa probably didn't mind either way = lots of Demand.
>
> Excited to see builds from those of you who snagged one, and sorry to hear
> that so many weren't able to grab a frame!
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:38:16 PM UTC-4 Kat wrote:
>
>> There's also no Appaloosas this year - so possibly at least some of the
>> demand is people who would have otherwise gone for an Appaloosa.
>>
>> On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 12:03:29 PM UTC+10 brianmark...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have an Appaloosa so was watching the sale out of curiosity, wild how
>>> quickly they went. I’d chalk it up to what, five years since the last
>>> Atlantis batch?
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 7:47:48 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 @Drew,

 There is a used 59cm blue Clem on the San Fransisco Craigslist site:


 https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/mill-valley-59cm-rivendell-clem-smith-jr/7824967277.html

 Kim Hetzel.


 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:36:27 PM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm
> complete/frame) and got this response:
>
> "Hi Drew,
>
> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has
> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's
> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.
> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>
> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last
> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might
> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4
> der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>
>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible,
>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve
>> one on the phone?
>>
>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a
>> time window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year
>> before) where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know 
>> how
>> many frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, 
>> and
>> they will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), 
>> and
>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If 
>> someone
>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus
>> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>>
>>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd
>>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have 
>>> enough,
>>> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on 
>>> the
>>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's
>>> impressive!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
 Doug

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:

> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub
> Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins.
> Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug 
> or
> Analog??
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7
> kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarin

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Drew Fitchette]

I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
complete/frame) and got this response:

"Hi Drew, 

Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has temporarily 
suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's back in action, 
but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  So no clems, 
I'm sorry!"

Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last round 
of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might be 
worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
wrote:

> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, can't 
> you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve one on 
> the phone?
>
> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>
>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd bet 
>> it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  if 
>> they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
>> impressive!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green 
 are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully 
 you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! 
> Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
> shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want 
> one 
> should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>
> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! Insane. 
> I wonder what quantities they had available. 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:
>
>> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
>> 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
>> because 
>> of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
>> 55cm 
>> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 
>> 53 
>> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
>> frame 
>> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I 
>> will 
>> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
>> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>>
>> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
>> wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of 
>> that 
>> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
>> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
>> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
>> Honjo flat fenders. 
>>
>> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
>> From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on 
>> the 
>> fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't 
>> *need* an Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But 
>> because I know I want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and 
>> that 
>> "some point" is in these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. 
>> Limited availability and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary 
>> psychology when it comes to objects of need or desire. More businesses 
>> need 
>> to be content with their size, and evolve just enough to account for 
>> inflation and rising wages, like Rivendell do. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I 
>>> would likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing 
>>> could ride a 50 t

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Brent Knepper]

I too was hoping to get a 53cm in the og color. in the cart at 3:00, 
couldn't complete because sold out at 3:01 ᴖ̈

should we all make WTB posts for our missed frames simultaneously??

Brent in NY

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:11:15 PM UTC-4 Mike Rossi wrote:

> Very fortunate here to have gotten my size and color!
> And, I was in a very similar situation as Armand with the last Platypus 
> run. But, a couple of months later Blue Lug had frame sets available which 
> ended up being better for me than the completes that Riv were offering. The 
> shipping was a little higher, but there were not any customs charges or 
> import duties or anything like that. I believe that’s because I had it 
> shipped to my residential address rather than a business (like an office or 
> LBS). BUT, it seems some have more difficulty in matters than I do. I run 
> Ortho bars that have never slipped, I use Silver shifters that don’t ghost 
> shift, etc…, so take this info with this in mind, “YMMV”.
>
> Mike
>
> On Mar 20, 2025, at 8:55 PM, Menos Joven  wrote:
>
>   I wonder if there are factory capacity constraints in Taiwan such as 
> size, materials, or skilled frame builders. Riv definitely wouldn’t 
> compromise quality. If not, I think the suggestion of non refundable 
> deposits is a good one for model size and color. Of course I’d hope they 
> would have enough demand for the model size and color I want. :) 2025 will 
> not offer the color I want and with no guarantee with regards to color in 
> 2026, let alone the current 5 minute dash procedure, I am definitely 
> considering letting go of the Riv dream and riding something else or what I 
> already have.
>
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:25:46 PM UTC-7 Kat wrote:
>
>> That was lightning fast! Everything gone now. Sorry to those who missed 
>> out. Interesting to hear that they are suspending dealer sales, I am in 
>> fact interested in the non-interesting reasons. I do wonder whether non-US 
>> dealers are included in that. 
>>
>> Anyone here who did snag one? What are your plans? Frame swap, Riv build, 
>> local build?
>>
>> Alfonso - A pre-pre-sale would be an interesting idea. Then they could 
>> order Y frames (Y = number of people who pre-pre-ordered) + X frames (X = 
>> number for dealers, extra number for those who didn't pre-pre-order). I 
>> imagine the lead times would be in the years rather than months though. 
>>
>> On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 10:15:14 AM UTC+10 der_amerikanische_freund 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of 
>>> dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette 
>>> in France.
>>>
>>> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more 
>>> for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties 
>>> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it 
>>> back to USA.
>>>
>>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>>>
 It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
> complete/frame) and got this response:
>
> "Hi Drew, 
>
> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the 
> Roadinis.  
> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>
> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it 
> might 
> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 
> der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>
>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
>> one on the phone?
>>
>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a 
>> time window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year 
>> before) where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know 
>> how 
>> many frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, 
>> and 
>> they will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), 
>> and 
>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If 
>> someone 
>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, 
>> plus 
>> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>>
>>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
>>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Riv

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Jim Murray]

I missed out already on a 55 in green, sold out already... at 12:01:45...

Jim

On 3/20/2025 10:28 AM, Armand Kizirian wrote:
I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" 
with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of 
my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
55cm Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. 
Going 55 vs 53 also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for 
a custom half frame bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of 
stand over height, as I will be mostly riding this on pavement and 
smoother fire roads, have a proper mountain bike for singletrack.


I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of 
that massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old 
school mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame 
pump, just 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and 
squeeze in some Honjo flat fenders.


As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on 
the fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely 
don't /need/ an Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. 
But because I know I want a traditional diamond frame at some point, 
and that "some point" is in these limited windows of time, I will buy 
one today. Limited availability and scarcity wreaks havoc with our 
evolutionary psychology when it comes to objects of need or desire. 
More businesses need to be content with their size, and evolve just 
enough to account for inflation and rising wages, like Rivendell do.


On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I
would likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended
sizing could ride a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of
seat post showing. I like both colors.
Doug

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4
der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.

As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I
liked the last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis
version isn’t quite of my liking.

It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based
in their height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for
size 55 as I plan on riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire
size and therefore I’d welcome the standover provided in size 55.

Good luck in the presale

El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.
 escribió:

I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread.
Who it planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan
to order one, which color?
Doug

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith
wrote:

They've been pretty transparent about their goals and
stratgy, through blogs and blahgs and emails.
 In fact, I can't think of another company that wears
it's business on it's sleeve so openly.  If someone
wanted to read enough archives, the thought process
would become pretty clear.

My recollection, to add to what's already been said,
is that they would prefer to order EXACTLY enough for
everybody who wants one immediately, and also have
EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two of future
sales of each model.  But it' obviously difficult to
predict what that number will be.  It's not to
intentionally create a rush or to keep them exclusive
by shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they
do need for customers to act with some urgency once
the shipment lands, because it locks up a lot of cash
that they can't afford to be without.

The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't
sell well adds to the difficulty. As does their
limited storage space.

I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and
have been there myself.  Ever since the Great
Recession, I've sort of lived hand-to-mouth, and am
not always able to make big or spontaneous or
discretionary purchases at times that coincide with
Rivendell's schedule.  Probably a good thing, in some
ways.  If I could, I'd buy an Atlantis today, just to
test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size - and
then probably release it later.

On Thursd

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Kim H.]

@Benz,

I agree with what you said, of which is very well written.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Kim Hetzel.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2025, 1:16 PM Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA <
benzouy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My understanding of presale and conservative ordering is to afford
> Rivendell more cash flow stability. These bikes need to be paid for when
> shipped, and small outfits like Rivendell are taking on risk by tying up
> their capital (probably borrowed capital at that) in such a big shipment.
> The presale means they have less capital tied up, and thus are able to
> weather any change in market better. Ordering more conservative numbers
> addresses the same risk of tying up capital, with the disadvantage of not
> maximizing sales. But Grant has mentioned numerous times that Rivendell
> isn't about growth, but sustainability (for the company and employees).
>
> Plus Rivendells probably aren't bikes one buys "on a whim". They're not
> the kind of IG fashionable that a newest Specialized, Trek or Cannondale
> is. I'd like to think Rivendells require more considered and mindful
> buyers, who plan out such purchases over time, being satisfied that
> whatever they buy will be for the long term (and wouldn't care that
> there'll be a fancy new model next year to make this year's "obsolete").
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 12:46:33 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> This business model of having presales and keeping framesets somewhat
>> scarce is interesting. People know if they don't act quickly their chance
>> may be gone for a year or more. Or, they can try to get a frame/bicycle of
>> choice in the used market. I must say it is aggravating as a consumer but
>> as a business practice it seems to work!
>> Doug
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 18, 2025 at 3:45:42 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am planning on getting one in Atlantis classic color. I was kind of
>>> disappointed it is being offered in a color other than the classic Atlantis
>>> blue. I think that was part of its appeal, the original (albeit very
>>> different to the original model) bike in the Riv line-up that was only
>>> offered in one color, true to its principles blah blah blah. Also with
>>> Sergio green also being the color of the Appaloosa, and those two bikes
>>> being so similar, I would even be tempted to merge them, effectively
>>> discontinuing one of the two, and offer more intermediate sizes of the
>>> resulting "Appa-lantis".
>>>
>>> Another thing I am not too enthused about this year's model is the pump
>>> peg in the seat stays. I do prefer the less conspicuous pin in the head
>>> tube underneath the top tube. I think that if you are not planning on
>>> carrying a large pump in the seat stay (either because you have a mini pump
>>> or because you large pump lives in a frame bag), the peg itself is a bit of
>>> an eyesore that ruins the straight line simplicity of the seat stays and
>>> rear triangle.
>>>
>>> El lunes, 17 de marzo de 2025 a las 12:39:24 UTC, Doug H. escribió:
>>>
 Hi Kat,
 I agree that the original Atlantis color is classic and to my eyes just
 suits the bike. But, I really like the Sergio Green which would make it a
 tough choice for me! I have always been a fan of shades of green anyway
 including the Lime Olive green that Riv has used. I wonder if the Atlantis
 bikes will sell out and/or sell quickly during the presale? It is always
 fun to watch but even more fun to participate.
 Doug

 On Monday, March 17, 2025 at 5:42:37 AM UTC-4 Kat wrote:

> Just days now until the 2025 Atlantis sale! Who's planning on getting
> one? What colour? I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on the 
> Sergio
> green - I do feel much of the appeal of the Atlantis is that gorgeous 
> blue.
> Interested to hear people's plans.
>
> Thanks,
> Kathryn
>
 --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/gGD2QHIXdw8/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6a623372-362d-4533-aa7c-2adfe593863bn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANRt_x%3D-HXhHiMsBVBx%2Bda9quXR0%2BKfXkjhHGtvscaHJAP0ifg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Drew Fitchette]

Kim - I may have actually taken advantage of the other Clem post you so 
graciously put on the Craigslist thread. The owner dropped it off at Blue 
Heron Bike Shop for me on Tuesday and it's on it's way to Atlanta now. So I 
already owe you many thanks! 

I second Mike's experience with Blue Lug. I ordered my Appa frame from them 
and it was very price competitive with Riv despite being shipped DHL from 
Japan. I also didn't have to pay any import fee/duty on the frame. So it's 
definitely worth keeping an eye on their global web store for these to pop 
up.

I also agree with Kat's thought on the fact that there won't be any 
Appaloosa's this year either. So those who have been holding out for an 
Atlantis will have gone Submarine Green, and those who would've bought an 
Appa probably didn't mind either way = lots of Demand. 

Excited to see builds from those of you who snagged one, and sorry to hear 
that so many weren't able to grab a frame! 

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:38:16 PM UTC-4 Kat wrote:

> There's also no Appaloosas this year - so possibly at least some of the 
> demand is people who would have otherwise gone for an Appaloosa. 
>
> On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 12:03:29 PM UTC+10 brianmark...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I have an Appaloosa so was watching the sale out of curiosity, wild how 
>> quickly they went. I’d chalk it up to what, five years since the last 
>> Atlantis batch?
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 7:47:48 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> @Drew,
>>>
>>> There is a used 59cm blue Clem on the San Fransisco Craigslist site:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/mill-valley-59cm-rivendell-clem-smith-jr/7824967277.html
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:36:27 PM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
 complete/frame) and got this response:

 "Hi Drew, 

 Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
 temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
 back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis. 
  
 So no clems, I'm sorry!"

 Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
 round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might 
 be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 
 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
> one on the phone?
>
> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year 
> before) 
> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and 
> they 
> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If 
> someone 
> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>
>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
>> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have 
>> enough,  
>> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on 
>> the 
>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
>> impressive!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub 
 Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
 Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug 
 or 
 Analog?? 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 
 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:

> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
> Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
> to 
> change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first 
> minute. 
> Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>
> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
> Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
> wr

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Kat]

That was lightning fast! Everything gone now. Sorry to those who missed 
out. Interesting to hear that they are suspending dealer sales, I am in 
fact interested in the non-interesting reasons. I do wonder whether non-US 
dealers are included in that. 

Anyone here who did snag one? What are your plans? Frame swap, Riv build, 
local build?

Alfonso - A pre-pre-sale would be an interesting idea. Then they could 
order Y frames (Y = number of people who pre-pre-ordered) + X frames (X = 
number for dealers, extra number for those who didn't pre-pre-order). I 
imagine the lead times would be in the years rather than months though. 

On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 10:15:14 AM UTC+10 der_amerikanische_freund 
wrote:

> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of dealers 
> outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette in 
> France.
>
> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more for 
> the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties 
> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it 
> back to USA.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>
>> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>>
>>> "Hi Drew, 
>>>
>>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  
>>> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>>>
>>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
>>> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might 
>>> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
 can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
 one on the phone?

 I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
 window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
 where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
 frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
 will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
 people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
 bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
 they can still sell the bike to a new person.

 El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:

> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough, 
>  
> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
> impressive!
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub 
>>> Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
>>> Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or 
>>> Analog?? 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 
>>> kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
 Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
 to 
 change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. 
 Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 

 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
 Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
 wrote:

> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
> 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
> because 
> of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
> 55cm 
> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 
> vs 53 
> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
> frame 
> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as 
> I will 
>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Brian McDermott]

I have an Appaloosa so was watching the sale out of curiosity, wild how 
quickly they went. I’d chalk it up to what, five years since the last 
Atlantis batch?

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 7:47:48 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> @Drew,
>
> There is a used 59cm blue Clem on the San Fransisco Craigslist site:
>
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/mill-valley-59cm-rivendell-clem-smith-jr/7824967277.html
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:36:27 PM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>
>> "Hi Drew, 
>>
>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  
>> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>>
>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last round 
>> of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might be 
>> worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
>>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
>>> one on the phone?
>>>
>>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
>>> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
>>> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
>>> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
>>> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
>>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
>>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
>>> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>>>
>>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>>>
 And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
 bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  
 if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
 table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
 impressive!

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:

> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>
>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green 
>> are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
>> Hopefully 
>> you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
>>> Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
>>> to 
>>> change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. 
>>> Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>>>
>>> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
>>> Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
 because 
 of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
 55cm 
 Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 
 vs 53 
 also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
 frame 
 bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I 
 will 
 be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a 
 proper 
 mountain bike for singletrack. 

 I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
 wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of 
 that 
 massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
 mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
 Honjo flat fenders. 

 As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
 From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on 
 the 
 fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't 
 *need* an Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. Bu

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[der_amerikanische_freund]

I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, can't 
you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve one on 
the phone?

I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
they can still sell the bike to a new person.

El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:

> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd bet 
> it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  if 
> they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
> impressive!
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green 
>>> are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully 
>>> you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! 
 Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
 shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want 
 one 
 should a lucky buyer change their mind. 

 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! Insane. 
 I wonder what quantities they had available. 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:

> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" 
> with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of my 
> 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 55cm 
> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 
> 53 
> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
> frame 
> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I 
> will 
> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>
> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
> wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of 
> that 
> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
> Honjo flat fenders. 
>
> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
> From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on the 
> fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't 
> *need* an Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But 
> because I know I want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and that 
> "some point" is in these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. 
> Limited availability and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary 
> psychology when it comes to objects of need or desire. More businesses 
> need 
> to be content with their size, and evolve just enough to account for 
> inflation and rising wages, like Rivendell do. 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
>> likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could 
>> ride 
>> a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
>> both colors.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 
>> der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>>
>>> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>>>
>>> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked 
>>> the last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t 
>>> quite 
>>> of my liking.
>>>
>>> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in 
>>> their height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I 
>>> plan 
>>> on riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d 
>>> welcome 
>>> the standover pro

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Alfonso Saco Díaz]

It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.

As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the last
batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of my
liking.

It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their
height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on
riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome the
standover provided in size 55.

Good luck in the presale

El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H. 
escribió:

> I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it planning
> to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which color?
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, through
>> blogs and blahgs and emails.
>>  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business on
>> it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, the
>> thought process would become pretty clear.
>>
>> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they would
>> prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one immediately, and
>> also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two of future sales of
>> each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict what that number will
>> be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to keep them exclusive by
>> shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do need for customers to
>> act with some urgency once the shipment lands, because it locks up a lot of
>> cash that they can't afford to be without.
>>
>> The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well adds to the
>> difficulty.  As does their limited storage space.
>>
>> I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and have been there
>> myself.  Ever since the Great Recession, I've sort of lived hand-to-mouth,
>> and am not always able to make big or spontaneous or discretionary
>> purchases at times that coincide with Rivendell's schedule.  Probably a
>> good thing, in some ways.  If I could, I'd buy an Atlantis today, just to
>> test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size - and then probably
>> release it later.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:14:18 AM UTC-6 EGNolan wrote:
>>
>>> It seems they're more popular, but the Riv mindset isn't to grow, it's
>>> to remain sustainable. So rather than maximize sales potential, but
>>> possibly sit on product for months or years, it's better to order just
>>> enough to mostly sell out.
>>>
>>> I get that it's frustrating not to be able to order one of any size of
>>> any frame at any time, but the companies that keep that kind of stock also
>>> have to charge enough initially so they still make money when they close
>>> out last year's model for 50% off before they pay taxes on anything they
>>> don't sell by year's end.
>>>
>>> I think it's easier to manage cash flow, expectations and all of the
>>> plates they're spinning if they can be intentional about quantities rather
>>> than having them sit around and having to figure out how to sell them. They
>>> used to have a lot more frames available when they had a lot more sizes of
>>> each frame and had a bit less of an audience. I don't think quantities have
>>> been reduced, I think variables (like number of sizes per bike, custom
>>> paint, etc.) have, which make them easier to sell.
>>>
>>> Sustainable business practices don't always feel "good for the consumer"
>>> but I'd rather have Rivendell Bicycle Works around than have the option to
>>> buy a frame in my size at any time if it meant they went buh-bye.
>>>
>>> $.02
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Eric
>>> Indpls
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:45:04 AM UTC-4 Andy Beichler wrote:
>>>
 Doug, I don't have any insight but perhaps someone here, does.  Has
 Rivendell started making smaller orders or are they just more popular?
 Either of those could cause low inventory situations. As someone who has
 bought parts but never a frame from Rivendell, the main issue for me with
 low inventory is that I can't endlessly do the pro/con rundown in my head
 on buying an available frame or complete.  :)

 Back on topic-I won't be buying an Atlantis today but I will log in
 later to see if there is one still available in my size.

 On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 3:57:25 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> Your points make sense, Collin. Ordering to meet unreasonable,
> unsustainable demand would be a mistake for sure. Ordering enough to have
> inventory available would be nice, as a consumer. But, I am in no way
> knowledgeable about how to run a business successfully. I was just 
> offering
> my observation.
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 3:52:18 PM UTC-4 Collin A wrote:
>
>> Doug, what you describe as being frustrating to the consumer is kinda
>> what happened duri

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[der_amerikanische_freund]

That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of dealers 
outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette in 
France.

I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more for 
the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties 
from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it 
back to USA.

El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:

> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>
>> "Hi Drew, 
>>
>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  
>> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>>
>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last round 
>> of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might be 
>> worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
>>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
>>> one on the phone?
>>>
>>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
>>> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
>>> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
>>> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
>>> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
>>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
>>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
>>> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>>>
>>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>>>
 And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
 bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  
 if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
 table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
 impressive!

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:

> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>
>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green 
>> are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
>> Hopefully 
>> you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
>>> Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
>>> to 
>>> change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. 
>>> Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>>>
>>> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
>>> Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
 because 
 of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
 55cm 
 Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 
 vs 53 
 also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
 frame 
 bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I 
 will 
 be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a 
 proper 
 mountain bike for singletrack. 

 I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
 wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of 
 that 
 massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
 mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
 Honjo flat fenders. 

 As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
 From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on 
 the 
 fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I defi

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Kim H.]

@Drew,

There is a used 59cm blue Clem on the San Fransisco Craigslist site:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/mill-valley-59cm-rivendell-clem-smith-jr/7824967277.html

Kim Hetzel. 


On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:36:27 PM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
> complete/frame) and got this response:
>
> "Hi Drew, 
>
> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  
> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>
> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last round 
> of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might be 
> worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
>> can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
>> one on the phone?
>>
>> I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
>> window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
>> where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
>> frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
>> will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
>> people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
>> bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
>> they can still sell the bike to a new person.
>>
>> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:
>>
>>> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd bet 
>>> it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  if 
>>> they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
>>> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
>>> impressive!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
 Doug

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:

> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green 
> are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully 
> you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! 
>> Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
>> shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want 
>> one 
>> should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>>
>> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
>> Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
>>> 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
>>> because 
>>> of my 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 
>>> 55cm 
>>> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 
>>> vs 53 
>>> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half 
>>> frame 
>>> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I 
>>> will 
>>> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a 
>>> proper 
>>> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>>>
>>> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I 
>>> wish they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of 
>>> that 
>>> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
>>> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
>>> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
>>> Honjo flat fenders. 
>>>
>>> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. 
>>> From a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on 
>>> the 
>>> fence of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't 
>>> *need* an Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But 
>>> because I know I want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and 
>>> that 
>>> "some point" is in these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. 
>>> Limited availability and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary 
>>> psychology when it comes to objects of need or desire. More businesses 
>>> need 

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Mike Rossi]

Very fortunate here to have gotten my size and color!And, I was in a very similar situation as Armand with the last Platypus run. But, a couple of months later Blue Lug had frame sets available which ended up being better for me than the completes that Riv were offering. The shipping was a little higher, but there were not any customs charges or import duties or anything like that. I believe that’s because I had it shipped to my residential address rather than a business (like an office or LBS). BUT, it seems some have more difficulty in matters than I do. I run Ortho bars that have never slipped, I use Silver shifters that don’t ghost shift, etc…, so take this info with this in mind, “YMMV”.MikeOn Mar 20, 2025, at 8:55 PM, Menos Joven  wrote:  I wonder if there are factory capacity constraints in Taiwan such as size, materials, or skilled frame builders. Riv definitely wouldn’t compromise quality. If not, I think the suggestion of non refundable deposits is a good one for model size and color. Of course I’d hope they would have enough demand for the model size and color I want. :) 2025 will not offer the color I want and with no guarantee with regards to color in 2026, let alone the current 5 minute dash procedure, I am definitely considering letting go of the Riv dream and riding something else or what I already have.On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:25:46 PM UTC-7 Kat wrote:That was lightning fast! Everything gone now. Sorry to those who missed out. Interesting to hear that they are suspending dealer sales, I am in fact interested in the non-interesting reasons. I do wonder whether non-US dealers are included in that. Anyone here who did snag one? What are your plans? Frame swap, Riv build, local build?Alfonso - A pre-pre-sale would be an interesting idea. Then they could order Y frames (Y = number of people who pre-pre-ordered) + X frames (X = number for dealers, extra number for those who didn't pre-pre-order). I imagine the lead times would be in the years rather than months though. On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 10:15:14 AM UTC+10 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of dealers outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette in France.I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more for the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it back to USA.El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm complete/frame) and got this response:"Hi Drew, Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  So no clems, I'm sorry!"Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve one on the phone?I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus they can still sell the bike to a new person.El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough,  if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's impressive!On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.DougOn Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:
Apparently I do not have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for 

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Jason Fuller]

I too was surprised at how quickly these went - I suppose, it's been a long 
time since the last run of Atlantis and that Sergio green is to die for.  
But still, wow. 

Agree with the suggestion to keep an eye on Blue Lug - hopefully they are 
receiving some but probably selling once stocked, not as a presale. They 
seem to be able to hang onto stock MUCH longer, despite selling at a pretty 
similar landed price to getting directly from Riv. 

And on the other part of the discussion, while it would seem from a 
customer perspective that it can't be that hard to gauge demand to avoid 
running out within minutes, I think it's actually very difficult - and if 
they get it wrong the other way, they'll have more stock than space to 
store it.  As mentioned Grant has a company size that is comfortable and I 
really respect sticking with that. It's tough to miss out though for sure, 
especially when you've been looking forward to it for a while. Again hope 
Blue Lug comes to the rescue for those who are crestfallen! 

On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 17:15:14 UTC-7 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

> That is very odd, especially considering they now have a number of dealers 
> outside the USA, like The Woods Cyclery in the UK, and La Chouette in 
> France.
>
> I guess ordering from Blue Lug would mean you end up paying a lot more for 
> the frame, as its sale price in Japanese Yen will include import duties 
> from USA to Japan, plus you will have to pay import duties again to get it 
> back to USA.
>
> El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 22:37:29 UTC, Jay escribió:
>
>> It's like trying to buy concert tickets and the use of 'bots'!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I reached out to Analog about the Clem's (as I missed out on a 59cm 
>>> complete/frame) and got this response:
>>>
>>> "Hi Drew, 
>>>
>>> Riv, for a number of reasons that are not very interesting, has 
>>> temporarily suspended all dealer frame sales.  Hopefully by summer it's 
>>> back in action, but the last frames we were able to get were the Roadinis.  
>>> So no clems, I'm sorry!"
>>>
>>> Blue Lug might be your best bet, as they still got some of the last 
>>> round of Clems(of which I still missed out on a 59cm). Though it might 
>>> be worth reaching out to James at Analog before then!
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I wonder, if getting one online in the presale is almost impossible, 
 can't you just call ahead Analog cycles or some other dealer and reserve 
 one on the phone?

 I think an improvement to Riv's current system would be to have a time 
 window before placing an order (let's 6 months before, even 1 year before) 
 where everyone who wants one pays a deposit. That way they know how many 
 frames they will sell, and they will place and order accordingly, and they 
 will also get a lot of cash in advance (more so than they do now), and 
 people will have certainty they will get the frame they wanted. If someone 
 bails out last minute, Rivendell would still keep the deposit money, plus 
 they can still sell the bike to a new person.

 El jueves, 20 de marzo de 2025 a las 19:32:05 UTC, iamkeith escribió:

> And only a couple of those!  Continuing the parallel discussion, I'd 
> bet it would have been frustrating even for Rivendell to not have enough, 
>  
> if they felt like they might have missed some sales and left money on the 
> table.  Let's assume they ordered exactly the right number.  That's 
> impressive!
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:26:50 PM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub 
>>> Green are sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. 
>>> Hopefully you can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or 
>>> Analog?? 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 
>>> kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green 
 Atlantis! Was ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me 
 to 
 change my shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. 
 Still want one should a lucky buyer change their mind. 

 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! 
 Insane. I wonder what quantities they had available. 

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian 
 wrote:

> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 
> 10.5" with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit 
> because 
>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Doug H.]

Unbelievable! All sold except size 62 Sergio Green.
Doug

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 3:13:09 PM UTC-4 Ben Miller wrote:

> Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green are 
> sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully you 
> can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! Was 
>> ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
>> shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want one 
>> should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>>
>> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! Insane. I 
>> wonder what quantities they had available. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:
>>
>>> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" 
>>> with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of my 
>>> 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 55cm 
>>> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 53 
>>> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half frame 
>>> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I will 
>>> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
>>> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>>>
>>> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I wish 
>>> they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of that 
>>> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
>>> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
>>> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
>>> Honjo flat fenders. 
>>>
>>> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. From 
>>> a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on the fence 
>>> of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't *need* an 
>>> Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But because I know I 
>>> want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and that "some point" is in 
>>> these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. Limited availability 
>>> and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary psychology when it comes to 
>>> objects of need or desire. More businesses need to be content with their 
>>> size, and evolve just enough to account for inflation and rising wages, 
>>> like Rivendell do. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
 likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could 
 ride 
 a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
 both colors.
 Doug

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 
 der_amerikanische_freund wrote:

> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>
> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the 
> last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of 
> my 
> liking.
>
> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their 
> height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on 
> riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome 
> the 
> standover provided in size 55.
>
> Good luck in the presale
>
> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.  
> escribió:
>
>> I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it 
>> planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which 
>> color?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, 
>>> through blogs and blahgs and emails.
>>>  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business 
>>> on it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, 
>>> the 
>>> thought process would become pretty clear.
>>>
>>> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they 
>>> would prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one 
>>> immediately, and also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two 
>>> of 
>>> future sales of each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict 
>>> what 
>>> that number will be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to 
>>> keep 
>>> them exclusive by shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do 
>>> need for customers to act with some urgency once the shipment lands, 
>>> because it locks up a lot of cash that they c

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Ben Miller]

Sorry to hear that Armand! Yeah, looks like all the Classic Sub Green are 
sold out, other that the largest size, in less than 5 mins. Hopefully you 
can get one from one of the Riv dealers, like Blue Lug or Analog?? 

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:17 PM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:

> Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! Was 
> ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
> shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want one 
> should a lucky buyer change their mind. 
>
> 6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! Insane. I 
> wonder what quantities they had available. 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:
>
>> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" 
>> with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of my 
>> 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 55cm 
>> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 53 
>> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half frame 
>> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I will 
>> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
>> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>>
>> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I wish 
>> they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of that 
>> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
>> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
>> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
>> Honjo flat fenders. 
>>
>> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. From 
>> a behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on the fence 
>> of purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't *need* an 
>> Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But because I know I 
>> want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and that "some point" is in 
>> these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. Limited availability 
>> and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary psychology when it comes to 
>> objects of need or desire. More businesses need to be content with their 
>> size, and evolve just enough to account for inflation and rising wages, 
>> like Rivendell do. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
>>> likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could ride 
>>> a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
>>> both colors.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 
>>> der_amerikanische_freund wrote:
>>>
 It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.

 As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the 
 last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of 
 my 
 liking.

 It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their 
 height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on 
 riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome the 
 standover provided in size 55.

 Good luck in the presale

 El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.  
 escribió:

> I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it 
> planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which 
> color?
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, 
>> through blogs and blahgs and emails.
>>  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business 
>> on it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, 
>> the 
>> thought process would become pretty clear.
>>
>> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they 
>> would prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one 
>> immediately, and also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two 
>> of 
>> future sales of each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict what 
>> that number will be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to keep 
>> them exclusive by shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do 
>> need for customers to act with some urgency once the shipment lands, 
>> because it locks up a lot of cash that they can't afford to be without.
>>
>> The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well adds to 
>> the difficulty.  As does their limited storage space.
>>
>> I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and have been there 
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Armand Kizirian]

 Apparently I do *not* have dibs one a 55cm Submarine Green Atlantis! Was 
ready to go at noon, apparently the time it took for me to change my 
shipping address was enough to sell out in the first minute. Still want one 
should a lucky buyer change their mind. 

6 minutes in and all 50, 55, 59 sizes in both colors sold out! Insane. I 
wonder what quantities they had available. 

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:

> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" 
> with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of my 
> 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 55cm 
> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 53 
> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half frame 
> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I will 
> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>
> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I wish 
> they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of that 
> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
> Honjo flat fenders. 
>
> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. From a 
> behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on the fence of 
> purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't *need* an 
> Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But because I know I 
> want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and that "some point" is in 
> these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. Limited availability 
> and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary psychology when it comes to 
> objects of need or desire. More businesses need to be content with their 
> size, and evolve just enough to account for inflation and rising wages, 
> like Rivendell do. 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
>> likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could ride 
>> a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
>> both colors.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>>>
>>> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the 
>>> last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of my 
>>> liking.
>>>
>>> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their 
>>> height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on 
>>> riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome the 
>>> standover provided in size 55.
>>>
>>> Good luck in the presale
>>>
>>> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.  
>>> escribió:
>>>
 I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it 
 planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which 
 color?
 Doug

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:

> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, through 
> blogs and blahgs and emails.
>  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business on 
> it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, the 
> thought process would become pretty clear.
>
> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they 
> would prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one 
> immediately, and also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two 
> of 
> future sales of each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict what 
> that number will be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to keep 
> them exclusive by shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do 
> need for customers to act with some urgency once the shipment lands, 
> because it locks up a lot of cash that they can't afford to be without.
>
> The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well adds to 
> the difficulty.  As does their limited storage space.
>
> I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and have been there 
> myself.  Ever since the Great Recession, I've sort of lived 
> hand-to-mouth, 
> and am not always able to make big or spontaneous or discretionary 
> purchases at times that coincide with Rivendell's schedule.  Probably a 
> good thing, in some ways.  If I could, I'd buy an Atlantis today, just to 
> test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size - and then probably 
> relea

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Ben Miller]

Oh wow, looks like they have already sold out of 50, 55, & 59's! Hoping the 
people on here wanting those sizes got 'em!

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:28:44 AM UTC-7 kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" 
> with about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of my 
> 55cm Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 55cm 
> Atlantis, which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 53 
> also means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half frame 
> bag. Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I will 
> be mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
> mountain bike for singletrack. 
>
> I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I wish 
> they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of that 
> massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
> mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
> 'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
> Honjo flat fenders. 
>
> As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. From a 
> behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on the fence of 
> purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't *need* an 
> Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But because I know I 
> want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and that "some point" is in 
> these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. Limited availability 
> and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary psychology when it comes to 
> objects of need or desire. More businesses need to be content with their 
> size, and evolve just enough to account for inflation and rising wages, 
> like Rivendell do. 
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
>> likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could ride 
>> a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
>> both colors.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>>>
>>> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the 
>>> last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of my 
>>> liking.
>>>
>>> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their 
>>> height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on 
>>> riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome the 
>>> standover provided in size 55.
>>>
>>> Good luck in the presale
>>>
>>> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.  
>>> escribió:
>>>
 I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it 
 planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which 
 color?
 Doug

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:

> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, through 
> blogs and blahgs and emails.
>  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business on 
> it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, the 
> thought process would become pretty clear.
>
> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they 
> would prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one 
> immediately, and also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two 
> of 
> future sales of each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict what 
> that number will be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to keep 
> them exclusive by shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do 
> need for customers to act with some urgency once the shipment lands, 
> because it locks up a lot of cash that they can't afford to be without.
>
> The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well adds to 
> the difficulty.  As does their limited storage space.
>
> I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and have been there 
> myself.  Ever since the Great Recession, I've sort of lived 
> hand-to-mouth, 
> and am not always able to make big or spontaneous or discretionary 
> purchases at times that coincide with Rivendell's schedule.  Probably a 
> good thing, in some ways.  If I could, I'd buy an Atlantis today, just to 
> test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size - and then probably 
> release it later.
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:14:18 AM UTC-6 EGNolan wrote:
>
>> It seems they're more popular, but the Riv mindset isn't to grow, 
>> it's to remain sustainable. So rather than maximize sales potential, but 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Armand Kizirian]

I've got dibs on a 55cm in submarine green at noon! I'm about 5' 10.5" with 
about an 85cm pbh, barefoot. I have a good idea of fit because of my 55cm 
Platypus, just slightly less reach and more stack with the 55cm Atlantis, 
which should work out perfectly in dialing my fit. Going 55 vs 53 also 
means taller stack, and a larger main triangle for a custom half frame bag. 
Not overly concerned with an abundance of stand over height, as I will be 
mostly riding this on pavement and smoother fire roads, have a proper 
mountain bike for singletrack. 

I appreciate the pump peg being out of the main triangle, though I wish 
they would just put it behind the seat tube and take advantage of that 
massive real estate with the long chainstays. Plus a nod to old school 
mtb's pump placement. I will end up color matching a frame pump, just 
'cause. Excited to run some 55cm rene herse slicks and squeeze in some 
Honjo flat fenders. 

As for the business model of minimal inventory, I think it's great. From a 
behavioral design perspective, it easily tips those who are on the fence of 
purchasing into buying, such as myself! I definitely don't *need* an 
Atlantis right now, my Platypus checks enough boxes. But because I know I 
want a traditional diamond frame at some point, and that "some point" is in 
these limited windows of time, I will buy one today. Limited availability 
and scarcity wreaks havoc with our evolutionary psychology when it comes to 
objects of need or desire. More businesses need to be content with their 
size, and evolve just enough to account for inflation and rising wages, 
like Rivendell do. 

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:24:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> I am just under 5'10" or a tad over 5'9" ;-), with an 83 PBH. I would 
> likely go with a size 53 but according to the recommended sizing could ride 
> a 50 too. I prefer to have just a fist full of seat post showing. I like 
> both colors.
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-4 der_amerikanische_freund 
> wrote:
>
>> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>>
>> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the 
>> last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of my 
>> liking.
>>
>> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their 
>> height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on 
>> riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome the 
>> standover provided in size 55.
>>
>> Good luck in the presale
>>
>> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H.  
>> escribió:
>>
>>> I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it 
>>> planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which 
>>> color?
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, through 
 blogs and blahgs and emails.
  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business on 
 it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, the 
 thought process would become pretty clear.

 My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they would 
 prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one immediately, 
 and 
 also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two of future sales of 
 each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict what that number will 
 be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to keep them exclusive by 
 shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do need for customers 
 to 
 act with some urgency once the shipment lands, because it locks up a lot 
 of 
 cash that they can't afford to be without.

 The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well adds to 
 the difficulty.  As does their limited storage space.

 I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and have been there 
 myself.  Ever since the Great Recession, I've sort of lived hand-to-mouth, 
 and am not always able to make big or spontaneous or discretionary 
 purchases at times that coincide with Rivendell's schedule.  Probably a 
 good thing, in some ways.  If I could, I'd buy an Atlantis today, just to 
 test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size - and then probably 
 release it later.

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:14:18 AM UTC-6 EGNolan wrote:

> It seems they're more popular, but the Riv mindset isn't to grow, it's 
> to remain sustainable. So rather than maximize sales potential, but 
> possibly sit on product for months or years, it's better to order just 
> enough to mostly sell out. 
>
> I get that it's frustrating not to be able to order one of any size of 
> any frame at any time, but the companies that keep that kind of stock 
> also 
> have to charge enough initia

Re: [RBW] Re: IRe: 2025 Atlantis pre-sale

[Nicolas H]

When I first saw the production schedule I immediately knew I wanted an
Atlantis. But after thinking about my cycling habits and goals, I realized
it's probably wayy too much bike for me. If I lived in a more rural
environment and my group rides were more geared towards that environment
then the Atlantis would be THE bike. But for now, my Roadini is more than
enough for the pavelement/trail rides. Better that one of those beautiful
rides goes to someone who will actually use it like it's supposed to be.




On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 9:07 AM Alfonso Saco Díaz 
wrote:

> It’s been a very informative off-topic though, Doug.
>
> As I said, I plan on getting a size 55 in Blue. As much as I liked the
> last batch of Appas in Sergio Green, the Atlantis version isn’t quite of my
> liking.
>
> It’d also be interesting to see what sizes people order based in their
> height and PBH. I’m 6’1 and 88 PBH and am going for size 55 as I plan on
> riding mainly off-road, maxing out tire size and therefore I’d welcome the
> standover provided in size 55.
>
> Good luck in the presale
>
> El El jue, 20 mar 2025 a las 15:50, Doug H. 
> escribió:
>
>> I regrettably derailed the original intent of this thread. Who it
>> planning to order an Atlantis today? If you do plan to order one, which
>> color?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> They've been pretty transparent about their goals and stratgy, through
>>> blogs and blahgs and emails.
>>>  In fact, I can't think of another company that wears it's business on
>>> it's sleeve so openly.  If someone wanted to read enough archives, the
>>> thought process would become pretty clear.
>>>
>>> My recollection, to add to what's already been said, is that they would
>>> prefer to order EXACTLY enough for everybody who wants one immediately, and
>>> also have EXACTLY enough extra stock for a year or two of future sales of
>>> each model.  But it' obviously difficult to predict what that number will
>>> be.  It's not to intentionally create a rush or to keep them exclusive by
>>> shutting some people out.  On the other hand, they do need for customers to
>>> act with some urgency once the shipment lands, because it locks up a lot of
>>> cash that they can't afford to be without.
>>>
>>> The required minimum quantities of sizes that don't sell well adds to
>>> the difficulty.  As does their limited storage space.
>>>
>>> I understand  why someone would be frustrated, and have been there
>>> myself.  Ever since the Great Recession, I've sort of lived hand-to-mouth,
>>> and am not always able to make big or spontaneous or discretionary
>>> purchases at times that coincide with Rivendell's schedule.  Probably a
>>> good thing, in some ways.  If I could, I'd buy an Atlantis today, just to
>>> test-fit - knowing there isn't a just-right size - and then probably
>>> release it later.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 9:14:18 AM UTC-6 EGNolan wrote:
>>>
 It seems they're more popular, but the Riv mindset isn't to grow, it's
 to remain sustainable. So rather than maximize sales potential, but
 possibly sit on product for months or years, it's better to order just
 enough to mostly sell out.

 I get that it's frustrating not to be able to order one of any size of
 any frame at any time, but the companies that keep that kind of stock also
 have to charge enough initially so they still make money when they close
 out last year's model for 50% off before they pay taxes on anything they
 don't sell by year's end.

 I think it's easier to manage cash flow, expectations and all of the
 plates they're spinning if they can be intentional about quantities rather
 than having them sit around and having to figure out how to sell them. They
 used to have a lot more frames available when they had a lot more sizes of
 each frame and had a bit less of an audience. I don't think quantities have
 been reduced, I think variables (like number of sizes per bike, custom
 paint, etc.) have, which make them easier to sell.

 Sustainable business practices don't always feel "good for the
 consumer" but I'd rather have Rivendell Bicycle Works around than have the
 option to buy a frame in my size at any time if it meant they went buh-bye.

 $.02

 Best,
 Eric
 Indpls

 On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 10:45:04 AM UTC-4 Andy Beichler wrote:

> Doug, I don't have any insight but perhaps someone here, does.  Has
> Rivendell started making smaller orders or are they just more popular?
> Either of those could cause low inventory situations. As someone who has
> bought parts but never a frame from Rivendell, the main issue for me with
> low inventory is that I can't endlessly do the pro/con rundown in my head
> on buying an available frame or complete.  :)
>
> Back on topic-I won't be buying an Atlantis today but I will log i