Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Yes, Patrick my wife is Filipina and she eats heroic amounts of rice! More in one sitting than I do in about a month! Speaking of pod casts, I know he's awful trendy these days, but I've been watching the Joe Rogan Experience for over a year now. His topics can be all over the place, but he's real into nutritional topics and if you mine the previous episodes you will find a lot of good stuff on gut biome, timed fasting, palio diets, carnivor diets, etc. I find the good thing about Joe's stuff is he does his homework and his guests are generally experts in their fields and sometimes controversial. He tends to challenge ideas if the guest comes off as sort of sketchy or questionable. I would avoid anything more then 2 years old because the older stuff can be pretty. . . Ah, well if you are easily offended. . . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a4ac9854-3cbc-4f2b-ab91-f1a6a6ccdb1f%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
In case anyone enjoys podcasts, the following three from the BBC have incredible insights into microbiome and related matters. 1) Hunting with the Hazda https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p057w3nm 2) Heath lessons with the Hazda https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p058jh5q 3) Gut Feeling https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02z0cbr IanA Alberta Canada -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c62420b6-b4b9-4ba1-b969-8f4be3700311%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Patrick: "I agree that what works for one person or one race may not be the same for another." My mother is 99 and still healthy and mentally sharp; she still lives in the house she was born in. Her diet is poor, heavy on starchy sweets - sometimes when I visit we both have nothing but pie and ice cream for dinner. She has never done anything to actively cultivate good health. She scoffs at organic food, drinks quite a bit of wine, is suspicious of doctors, rarely exercises. She is and always has been thin though, and never overeats. What's to account for her long healthy life? I think nothing but good Irish genes, and possibly staying thin? I don't know. Certainly not any specific type of diet or exercise. Just a data point. Jack Seattle On Tuesday, October 15, 2019 at 2:43:41 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: > > That gives a new meaning to the vulgar phrase, "Eat shit." > > Back to rice. Me age'd mum lived to almost 92, and controlled Type 2 > diabetes for almost 20 years by diet and (very modest) exercise -- > principally diet. She had had a very minor heart attack close to age 70, > and obeying the medical advice of the time, jettisoned almost all fat, > salt, and sugar from her diet, as well as most starches. This meant that > her diet was largely styrofoam chicken breasts cooked in the dullest way > possible, huge quantities of boiled vegetables, the occasional synthetic > egg, and huge quantities of white rice -- because she was Filipina, and if > you are Filipina/o, you eat huge quantities of white rice. > > I agree that what works for one person or one race may not be the same for > another. > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 2:41 PM Ian A > > wrote: > >> The BBC carried a story about this a while back, going as far to report >> on fecal transplants to help with c difficile infection. >> >> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-43815369 >> >> Gut fauna/micro biome health is becoming better understood. >> >> IanA >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/64194d65-941f-4251-8339-bd7a45e2d6d0%40googlegroups.com >> . >> > > > -- > > --- > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/527b7c22-16a4-4eb4-bb31-dcb804631a1e%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I've had C-Diff twice in my life, and almost died the second time. I would gladly welcome "eating shit" if it cured that horrific infection. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8449ae5d-c1b7-4b41-8741-3918facb3dd2%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
That gives a new meaning to the vulgar phrase, "Eat shit." Back to rice. Me age'd mum lived to almost 92, and controlled Type 2 diabetes for almost 20 years by diet and (very modest) exercise -- principally diet. She had had a very minor heart attack close to age 70, and obeying the medical advice of the time, jettisoned almost all fat, salt, and sugar from her diet, as well as most starches. This meant that her diet was largely styrofoam chicken breasts cooked in the dullest way possible, huge quantities of boiled vegetables, the occasional synthetic egg, and huge quantities of white rice -- because she was Filipina, and if you are Filipina/o, you eat huge quantities of white rice. I agree that what works for one person or one race may not be the same for another. On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 2:41 PM Ian A wrote: > The BBC carried a story about this a while back, going as far to report on > fecal transplants to help with c difficile infection. > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-43815369 > > Gut fauna/micro biome health is becoming better understood. > > IanA > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/64194d65-941f-4251-8339-bd7a45e2d6d0%40googlegroups.com > . > -- --- Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgt536BQ78tXOL_a9FNRH2y%2BnjNCw1j49aUCpTaZ%3DHp4YA%40mail.gmail.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
The BBC carried a story about this a while back, going as far to report on fecal transplants to help with c difficile infection. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-43815369 Gut fauna/micro biome health is becoming better understood. IanA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/64194d65-941f-4251-8339-bd7a45e2d6d0%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Sorry, last post I just wanted to mention, the latest, greatest and still in it's infancy is the study of the stomach biome. In the very near future they will be able to sample the bacteria in your stomach and either selectively remove bad bacteria OR introduce bacteria to counteract different conditions like obesity, lactose intolerance, possibly celiac disease, ulcers, etc. It's debatable if this would be a good thing or not, but it certainly is looking like it is coming. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/54352bfc-48a2-48aa-8985-91cf41e82f6e%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I apologize for all the typos in the above post; comes from typing on a phone. I was interested in Grant's comment about overweight women and overweight children; hard to think there wouldn't be some correlation, but again it could vary with genetics. My mother was overweight as is my eldest sister, I less than her & my youngest sister less than I. My mother would regularly do the Atkins diet lose 30lbs., gain it all back, then lose 50lbs. the next time only to gain it back! Finally in her 60s her doctor diagnosed her as Diabetic; she went on what we would describe as a ketogenic diet these days and finally dropped to a more or less normal weight. I think the main reason she couldn't maintain her weight loss and now suffers from dementia is she was never active, she didn't ride bikes, she didn't do anything. To Charlie and others who are discouraged by exercising & gaining weight rather than losing it. I would say stick with it. As someone whose gone from very fit to less so (purely based on my activity levels) a few times in my life, I would say stay away from the scale it can be very misleading! A sudden increase in physical activity will correspond to a burst in muscle growth; initially you will build muscle faster than you burn fat & muscle weighs ~ 2x fat! So, it's only natural to gain weight at first. The good news is bigger muscles need more fuel and thus burn more calories, so while it may be slow sledding at first at some point you will notice the weight loss will start to increase and finally really start to pick up steam. You can accelerate the process with a Palio or Keto diet, but if you stay with it, results will follow. For me I stay away from the scale, it took 20 years, a wife, 2 kids & a very stressful job to put on this weight, so I don't think it's healthy to think I am going to lose it all over night. My better gauge is my waist line at my heaviest I was a 38" waist, 4 or 5 years ago; without changing too much I am sub 36" and slimming noticeably faster now that I've increased my muscle mass. Most importantly my results are due more to lifestyle changes as opposed to strictly dieting, because of that I am more likely to stay with it and continue increasing my fitness level and losing weight. I would say the best barometer is your belt! Mine has notches every inch or so and I am 3 notches down from my biggest and getting better every day. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9684b8b2-253a-4396-9469-0b6dfd9f9130%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Whew, wish I had time to dig through all the responses here; it's all very interesting, but I just wanted to throw a couple things out there. My wife is Asian and while she is snall, I see her weight fluctuates wildly be 10% or more over a matter of days! I although overweight; don't have much fluctuation at all. I notice if she eats too much "American" food she will gain a bunch of weight very quickly, but as soon as she goes back to her traditional vegies, but primarily fish & rice the weight comes off almost overnight. Now when I say she eats rice; it's a prodigious amount! If I was to eat that much rice I would swell up like a balloon! I conversely have cut the amount of starchy carbs I've been consuming and coupled with my riding have seen my weight steadily decline. Point being that the diets that work for both of us a almost polar opposite. I think this is partly cultural; over hundreds if not thousands of years our bodies adapt to the foods at hand. In my journey the things that seem to have made the biggest difference in order are: Sleep - lots of it. Water- ditto Diet- less starchy carbs, but also just generally, only eating until I am no longer hungry, not until I am FULL. Over time the less I've eaten, the less I can eat; to the point that it doesn't take much these days to fill me up. Lastly, I feel like doctors sometimes get cause and effect backwards these days. You hear " obesity causes heart disease" for example. Hey, what is more likely is the heart health or the lack of it causes obesity! In fact I am increasingly of the belief that heart health is the root of a large number of today's health problems. From Obesity, to dementia, to many stress related disorders. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/56688aee-d371-4422-9e12-80286b82640e%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I don't doubt what you say about your colleagues. But it is also true that historically the vast majority of Chinese people couldn't afford meat as a daily diet. They didn't get their calories from meat (too expensive) or vegetables (not many calories). Rather, they got the calories either from white rice or, in the north, white flour. On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:00 PM, charlie wrote: > Hi Patrick.yea I work with about thirty Vietnamese/Chinese and I > see what they eat everyday. Mostly meat or seafood/shellfish and or > eggs plus some kind of weird vegetabley soup like stuff they dribble > over a tiny ice cream scoop size ball of rice. Most rarely (if ever) > eat sugar in the form of cookies, candy, soda or cake etc. They seem > to shun most American foods including fast food.at least the ones > who arrived here more recently. They often make a big deal ( some > religious thing) of cooking a whole pig underground and rarely throw > any of it away. At larger gatherings they eat more fresh vegetables > and fruits and the meals are more elaborate with roast duck or shark > fin soup being popular. Sometimes they have the Pho soup with the > rice noodles but most focus on the meat and often leave the broth. > They drink quite a bit of green tea but smoke like freight trains. > During celebrations they drink large amounts of beer and shots of > cognac and never seem to get fat.when I joined them at the casino > weekly over several months, I gained 20 pounds shooting up to 282 at > my fattest. There is something to be said for genetics. > > On Aug 31, 4:51 pm, PATRICK MOORE wrote: >> What do all those Chinese, South Indians, Filipinos and Japanese >> (among others) have to say about the last part of this sentence? >> >> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 5:45 PM, charlie wrote: >> >> what I get from reading Taubes/Marks Daily Apple/ Paleo etc. >> >>> is to eat high protein, good fats, fresh vegetables (the leafy green >>> kind) berries,certain nuts, and some fruits >> >> **and avoid all starchy carbohydrates bread, potatoes, corn, rice, >> sugar. basically eat a healthy diet.** > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
It must be genetics. I don't doubt the efficacy of the Taube method, but I've seen too many people who eat mostly carbs, sometimes polished rice. My mother, after being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes over 10 years ago, and who also had one heart attack, switched to a very low fat, low salt, high vegetable, lot of chicken and lots and lots of rice (she buys rice in 20 lb bags) and has lost a great deal of weight and kept it off, as well as helping her heart and blood sugar. (She is Filipina.) I lived in both north and south India in the '60s, as a boy, and the poor people ate mostly whole wheat (Delhi) and polished rice (Bangalore) plus lentils, vegetables and a bit of fish or meat on special occasions. Ditto in Karachi, Pakistan. In Kenya, where we moved next, the poor ate mostly posho -- corn meal mush. Often the women would be hefty, but rarely obese; them men less heavy (but taller, of course). Add banana or millet beer or, for the townies, Tusker. My ex parents in law are Taiwanese: noodles, steamed bread and rice in abundance, tho' they being American now can afford more fish, eggs and meat. Of course, all this lot -- Indians, Pakis, Kenyans, Filipinos, Chinese -- are of a class that moves around a lot and often does manual labor; and many of them can't afford to overeat even cheap grains and lentils. I dunno. I believe those who have said they gained weight on carbs, lost them on no carbs. But there is the above for other people; not to mention the Irish peasants who, I've read in more than one place, ate (for the working man) an average of 11 lb of high glycemic (Mom won't eat them) potatoes a day, with little else beside a bit of skim milk and salt. I eat indiscriminately except I don't eat huge amount of meat -- but lots of cheese -- and thank God am 20 lb heavier than I was in college at the same weight (I could lose 10 or 15 easily but I'd be pretty thin). One sister is like me on a largely vegetarian and rice diet; another sister and my brother are heavier, but not obese, on eclectic diets that include a lot of everything except meat (meat is not foregone, just rare). An interesting aside: reading the autobiography of Thomas Merton (Seven Story Mountain) he describes living in rural France in the 1920s and '30s with his widowed artist father and he describes a peasant wedding feast where no one ate anything except huge quantities of a huge variety of meats, because they never ate meat for most of the rest of the year. (He also describes the Tour coming through his town, grinding up a dirt hill doubtless in a single gear, "with noses almost touching their front wheels.") On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 9:00 PM, charlie wrote: > Hi Patrick.yea I work with about thirty Vietnamese/Chinese and I > see what they eat everyday. Mostly meat or seafood/shellfish and or > eggs plus some kind of weird vegetabley soup like stuff they dribble > over a tiny ice cream scoop size ball of rice. Most rarely (if ever) > eat sugar in the form of cookies, candy, soda or cake etc. They seem > to shun most American foods including fast food.at least the ones > who arrived here more recently. They often make a big deal ( some > religious thing) of cooking a whole pig underground and rarely throw > any of it away. At larger gatherings they eat more fresh vegetables > and fruits and the meals are more elaborate with roast duck or shark > fin soup being popular. Sometimes they have the Pho soup with the > rice noodles but most focus on the meat and often leave the broth. > They drink quite a bit of green tea but smoke like freight trains. > During celebrations they drink large amounts of beer and shots of > cognac and never seem to get fat.when I joined them at the casino > weekly over several months, I gained 20 pounds shooting up to 282 at > my fattest. There is something to be said for genetics. > > On Aug 31, 4:51 pm, PATRICK MOORE wrote: >> What do all those Chinese, South Indians, Filipinos and Japanese >> (among others) have to say about the last part of this sentence? >> >> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 5:45 PM, charlie wrote: >> >> what I get from reading Taubes/Marks Daily Apple/ Paleo etc. >> >> > is to eat high protein, good fats, fresh vegetables (the leafy green >> > kind) berries,certain nuts, and some fruits >> >> **and avoid all starchy carbohydrates bread, potatoes, corn, rice, >> sugar. basically eat a healthy diet.** > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
What do all those Chinese, South Indians, Filipinos and Japanese (among others) have to say about the last part of this sentence? On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 5:45 PM, charlie wrote: what I get from reading Taubes/Marks Daily Apple/ Paleo etc. > is to eat high protein, good fats, fresh vegetables (the leafy green > kind) berries,certain nuts, and some fruits **and avoid all starchy carbohydrates bread, potatoes, corn, rice, sugar. basically eat a healthy diet.** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
This has been a very interesting thread to follow and I’ve been reluctant to join in as I feel I’ve nothing terribly relevant to add to the many voices which have already spoken here. However, I think it is too easy to overstate the detrimental qualities of certain foods: ". . . obesity isn't the only epidemic we're dealing with. heart disease, cancers, and chronic health issues can all be related to diet and nutrition (or lack thereof) too. diets that lead to disease have the following markers: -High in animal fats and protein -High in unhealthy fats (saturated/trans) -Low in fiber -High in processed/packaged foods -Low in complex carbs -Low in plant-based foods. . . " Well, not necessarily so. The Amish have been studied extensively (or as extensively as can be done given difficulties involving technology) for the very reason of the high prevalence of high fat, high protein diets, obesity rates vastly below that of non-Amish America, vastly lower cancer rates (except perhaps breast cancer) than non-Amish America. Along with their high fat, high protein, moderate carbs diet, the Amish expend a great deal of energy daily. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17473766 http://www.endo-society.org/media/ENDO-07/research/Amish-children-tend-not-to-be-overweight-thanks-to-exercise.cfm http://www.cancergenetics.med.ohio-state.edu/article.cfm?ID=5307 Of course, as some folks here have already mentioned, there’s a big difference between not becoming overweight and trying to reduce body weight. . . I’ll return to my seat now J lyle On 31 August 2011 11:33, Patrick in VT wrote: > On Aug 30, 9:06 pm, grant wrote: > > > As the book points out, and as anybody who tries it will see, your > > blood scores vastly improve when you eat fat and protein > > there's more than 1 book and countless studies that say the opposite. > again, weight loss vs. health. lose weight, eat fatty foods, and keep > exercise to a minimum ... doesn't sound like a recipe for reducing the > risk of heart disease. When roughly two thirds of Americans (to keep > this conservation ethnocentric - because, as others have noted, the > rest of the carb-eating world isn't epidemically fat) are overweight/ > obese, I do understand the emphasis on weight loss - and I think it's > great that folks are finding ways of shedding the weight, whether it's > with Taubes or their local weight watchers class. whatever works. > > but obesity isn't the only epidemic we're dealing with. heart > disease, cancers, and chronic health issues can all be related to diet > and nutrition (or lack thereof) too. diets that lead to disease have > the following markers: > > -High in animal fats and protein > -High in unhealthy fats (saturated/trans) > -Low in fiber > -High in processed/packaged foods > -Low in complex carbs > -Low in plant-based foods > > not coincidentally, these are also the markers of a diet (which can > rightly be called an American diet) that lead to obesity. > > can one lose weight on this diet? absolutely. does one also lose the > risk of disease that goes hand in hand with these diet markers? > absolutely not. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- lyle f bogart dpt 156 bradford rd wiscasset, me 04578 207.882.6494 206.794.6937 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I went from around 230 and completely out of shape to my current 175 (@ 6'4", maintained for 3 years) by switching from a typical American diet, to a vegetarian diet that included a lot of whole grains, and riding a lot more. Somehow the widely accepted methods worked for me. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Eric Daume wrote: > That's the point of the book: this isn't universally accepted. We've been > pushed this viewpoint for 30 years, but where's the great downsizing of > America? One of Taubes main points is that the science behind low fat/high > fiber/calories in/calories out is very, very poor. > > Eric Daume > Dublin, OH > > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Patrick in VT wrote: > >> >> >> >> with respect, what does low-fat, hardly any meat/nearly vegetarian >> (same thing, right?) have to do with her condition? low saturated >> fat, nearly vegetarian (as in, eating vegetables, fruits, non-animal >> whole foods) is universally accepted as a healthful way to eat. >> There's no arguing that. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
A man at our church was hugely obese, probably 400 lb at about 6', for years until he told himself, "eat less and be more active." I think he just took daily walks on a strict high veg diet. He dropped an amazing amount of weight, in under 2 years, to about 200. OTOH, there is the rather well known instance of women in traditional, well to do Somali circles being sent at marriageable age to special spas where they are fed large amounts of fattening porridge to make them fat and more beautiful. My point in saying this is to say that I expect that Taube is right at least as far as that some people, and peoples, are genetically more inclined to be heavy; but on the other hand, that overeating and under eating do cause weight gain and weight loss for some. (I am 1/3 of the way through Taube's book.) I wish I could do 1:18 23 mile urban commute on a 30 lb bike! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 17:11 -0400, Eric Daume wrote: > That's the point of the book: this isn't universally accepted. We've > been pushed this viewpoint for 30 years, but where's the great > downsizing of America? One of Taubes main points is that the science > behind low fat/high fiber/calories in/calories out is very, very poor. Perhaps the problem is really that compliance is very, very poor? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
That's the point of the book: this isn't universally accepted. We've been pushed this viewpoint for 30 years, but where's the great downsizing of America? One of Taubes main points is that the science behind low fat/high fiber/calories in/calories out is very, very poor. Eric Daume Dublin, OH On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Patrick in VT wrote: > > > > with respect, what does low-fat, hardly any meat/nearly vegetarian > (same thing, right?) have to do with her condition? low saturated > fat, nearly vegetarian (as in, eating vegetables, fruits, non-animal > whole foods) is universally accepted as a healthful way to eat. > There's no arguing that. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Have started Taube's book and find it interesting: clearly more is involved that "what goes in and what goes out" -- tho' of course, you can fatten yourself by overeating. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Kris wrote: > Ding ding ding...we have a winner! It's funny we are writing and > reading endless books to end up back at this basic idea. > > "ride more, eat less" It's that simple. > > > > On Aug 12, 2:00 pm, PATRICK MOORE wrote: >> One huge difference between our mid-20th-century-on and the lives of >> even relatively recent forbears is simply the absence of physical >> activity. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW [email protected] A billion stars go spinning through the night Blazing high above your head; But in you is the Presence that will be When all the stars are dead. (Rilke, Buddha in Glory) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I've been trying to post on this subject since it started with no luck..maybe thus time. The Taubes/Paleo/Marks daily apple approach has been working for us we've lost fat weight, feel better and we've tried other approaches over the years. These ideas make sense and are very similar to what we grew up hearing from our parents that basically excessive sugary, starchy foods will fatten you up..some may not be as affected but many appear to be easy weight gainers. There is always the "beanpole" among us who can eat virtually anything and not gain a pound but I like to experience when something works for me and my body type. So far I'm down 24 pounds and I generally feel better than I have in a long time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/1HUMyjLduF8J. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I would like to know some of the meals/foods people who are following the Taubes book and his philosophy are eating. Anything really special that you have made that made your taste buds go "wow, that was good?" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Rwc6EVL0tRYJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
This is the idea that I was protesting against: it reads to me as a blanket assertion that carbs are unhealthy. But billions have for millennia lived principally on carbs and haven't been more unhealthy than anyone else (not that there were many people left over after you counted the "mostly carbs" crowd, which is by far most people over all of at least recorded history; hell, even hunter gatherers eat grains). Patrick "going on a paleo diet for dinner this evening as an early breaking of the Dormition fast: lotsa steak and green veg and red wine" Moore, who usually doesn't eat a lot of meat, who is damn' glad he ain't a cow, and who is gonna read that book. On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 2:49 PM, charles vail wrote: I always tell > people what many farmers and ranchers now that if you want to fatten a cow > before slaughter you feed it grain for a short period of time but if you > want to kill a cow with food (only feed it grain) and it will eventually get > sick and die. That is essentially what many of us are doing without > realizing it and while some may not show fat storage their arteries may be > clogging or they may develop diabetes or other disease as a result of their > food choices. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
It may be time to let this thread peter out. But, briefly, for those of you interested in the thermodynamics question, Taubes addresses it too. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/CLFR7Ctrq7sJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Patrick - I am glad you are going to read the book! I bet you will enjoy. I look forward to hearing your thoughts after you check it out. Good stuff. -Zack -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/d5CVrQbbxIYJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I've been having trouble posting for several days now and hope this makes it through..We've been using the Taubes/Paleo/ Marks Daily Apple approach to eating and I have lost 24 pounds since last March. I still cheat with wine and chocolate but have for the most part eliminated grains and all sugar,corn syrup, starchy carbs (potatoes, pasta, rice, oats etc.) I've never felt better and I've tried other approaches with limited success. I tried exercising excessively and never lost much since it just made me crave carbs all the more, post exercise. I am not interested in starving myself (a sure way to loose but unhealthy) instead I prefer to keep a good mental attitude by being satiated with foods that give me nutrition and energy while at the same time don't spike my blood sugar and promote insulin responses and conversion of excess glucose to fat storage. I always tell people what many farmers and ranchers now that if you want to fatten a cow before slaughter you feed it grain for a short period of time but if you want to kill a cow with food (only feed it grain) and it will eventually get sick and die. That is essentially what many of us are doing without realizing it and while some may *not* show fat storage their arteries may be clogging or they may develop diabetes or other disease as a result of their food choices. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/4fYcG4-XEWEJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I bought the book and started reading it, following the diet for the most part. He really doesn't preach anti-carb, but rather anti-processed foods, anti-calorie heavy, nutrient poor foods like white flour and sugar. The diet has made me feel not only more energetic, but all around healthier. I have psoriatic arthritis and when I stick to eating meats leafy greens and veggies and lay off the processed foods, sugar and breads I don't have any flare ups. Seems to work for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/y3IGuM7Wtb8J. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
On Saturday, August 13, 2011 11:15:13 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: > > Perhaps I should and I will. But some of his positions (carb = bad) as > presented in this thread simply don't correspond to history. The > Chinese are getting fat from Big Macs and other animal fare, not from > their traditional rice. And I don't think you can refute the idea that > minimal exercise is required for normal wellbeing. > > > I too haven't read the book, but I wonder how this carb = bad mentality, affects cyclists. Aren't cyclists suppose to "carbo-load" to ride long distances? I was reading an old Riv Reader awhile back about a guy name Dave or Henry Kingman. He eats massive breakfasts, ramen, 50 cent pies (now probably a dollar), and lots of pasta. He also rides 100s of miles a day. Further, you watch the "pro" riders like Lance and see them eating plates and plates of carbos before and after racing up and down "Cols" for hundreds of miles. Are cyclists suppose to eat carbs to keep on riding? Note, I'm not talking about transportation cyclists or weekend warriors (like myself) who do anywhere from 10 to 50 mile rides. I presume that reducing carbs would be a big help in my losing weight - of course, I just need to get started. Anyways, how does this guy address cyclists and their supposed "need" for carbs? Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/h5KgyAxVqCEJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
On Aug 14, 2011, at 9:03 AM, David Faller wrote: > Arguing on the internet, in any form, is often dangerous and always stupid > unless all parties are equally informed and open to having their beliefs > toppled. Arguing period, as any ten minutes spent watching a political debate will demonstrate. Most people argue to win rather than to understand. > Taubes' books are full of "well I'll be damned!" passages, and he can back > them up with hard research. He spends a lot of his writing trying to gently > pry loose what I call "belief barnacles", such as "calories in/calories out". Calories in/out conforms to the laws of thermodynamics and therefore must have at least some validity. If you eat 10,000 carbohydrate calories a day and expend 2,000 you will gain weight. If you eat 10,000 protein calories a day and expend 2,000 you will gain weight. If you eat 10,000 fat calories a day and expend 2,000 you will gain weight. Conversely if you expend 10,000 calories a day and eat 2,000 you will lose weight, no matter the source of those calories. Bike tourists are well aware of this phenomenon. Most people are not in such extreme situations, of course, and their calorie in/out differences might be 200 a day more or less. The Taubesian theories might be more applicable there. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Thanks Zack! This is _precisely_ what I've been wanting to say, but was on the verge of a tirade. Arguing on the internet, in any form, is often dangerous and always stupid unless all parties are equally informed and open to having their beliefs toppled. I've been quietly humbled many times by lurking on a thread and watching my pet theories fizzle and fade; but I was happy to gain the new information without having to put my ignorance out there for all to see. Taubes' books are full of "well I'll be damned!" passages, and he can back them up with hard research. He spends a lot of his writing trying to gently pry loose what I call "belief barnacles", such as "calories in/calories out". He also amply acknowledges that personal genetics steers how we process everything, including carbohydrates. All I can claim from personal experience is that I adjusted my diet in the direction of what he has explained (I did not go whole-hog, not even close), and I had almost immediate results. On 8/14/2011 6:28 AM, Zack wrote: I think it is necessary to read the book before commenting on whether or not Taubes addresses these things. He does. At length. With example after example. At least half of the book is spent refuting the paradigm/mindset that is being espoused in this thread by the people that have not read the book. The cliffs notes version is that genetics impact how we carry our weight and how we process carbs. Some people are able to process carbs differently than other people. It's not that carbs are "bad," it's that some of us get fat when we eat them, due to the way we are genetically predisposed to carry fat. If you are fat, and want to lose weight, read the book, and try what he suggests. If you are skinny and eat cheetos and pizza and burgers and pasta all the time, congrats, you have the genes that allow you to process that type of food without getting fat. It's not because you are working out so hard, or are so active, or because you closely monitor your calorie intake and never "overdo" it. You can think otherwise, and that's good, and I am happy for you that you are skinny and fit, but for those of us that aren't or weren't skinny and fit, it's dangerous to stay stuck in that mindset, because you are going to stay overweight, be frustrated by it, and feel like you are a failure. You aren't a failure, you have just been going about it all wrong. Taubes' book isn't a diet book, in fact, there are only a few pages that talk about what to actually eat. I feel it's important to speak up and say this stuff in case anyone is reading this thread who is overweight and wants to do something about it. If you are in that boat, get the book, read it, it will help you, as it has helped me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ijH1ONSgfgwJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
The discussion has been interesting enough that I, for one, will indeed do just that. For the record, I was responding to others' paraphrases of Taube's ideas which did not mention native differences in metabolism; that idea does make sense at first hearing. I remain skeptical of "one fits all" pronouncements about dietary healthiness and I am also skeptical about "new, all explaining scientific discoveries" -- nil novum sub sole -- but it is certainly true that different peoples remained healthy eating different things -- again, contract the Chinese or for that matter pre Industrial European peasant (bread, cereal gruel, ale, vegetables, very little meat and dairy) with the traditional Inuit or the Masai. On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Zack wrote: > I think it is necessary to read the book before commenting on whether or not > Taubes addresses these things. He does. At length. With example after > example. At least half of the book is spent refuting the paradigm/mindset > that is being espoused in this thread by the people that have not read the > book. > The cliffs notes version is that genetics impact how we carry our weight and > how we process carbs. Some people are able to process carbs differently > than other people. It's not that carbs are "bad," it's that some of us get > fat when we eat them, due to the way we are genetically predisposed to carry > fat. > If you are fat, and want to lose weight, read the book, and try what he > suggests. If you are skinny and eat cheetos and pizza and burgers and pasta > all the time, congrats, you have the genes that allow you to process that > type of food without getting fat. It's not because you are working out so > hard, or are so active, or because you closely monitor your calorie intake > and never "overdo" it. You can think otherwise, and that's good, and I am > happy for you that you are skinny and fit, but for those of us that aren't > or weren't skinny and fit, it's dangerous to stay stuck in that mindset, > because you are going to stay overweight, be frustrated by it, and feel like > you are a failure. You aren't a failure, you have just been going about it > all wrong. > Taubes' book isn't a diet book, in fact, there are only a few pages that > talk about what to actually eat. I feel it's important to speak up and say > this stuff in case anyone is reading this thread who is overweight and wants > to do something about it. If you are in that boat, get the book, read it, > it will help you, as it has helped me. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ijH1ONSgfgwJ. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW [email protected] A billion stars go spinning through the night Blazing high above your head; But in you is the Presence that will be When all the stars are dead. (Rilke, Buddha in Glory) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I agree with Patrick on this . No one knows. nor will they ever know the entire truth about food and our relationships to it . . . . because it is ... and always will be ever changing. There is no absolute truth just what we each choose to believe. We can thrive on just about anything it's more about our mental and emotion attitudes about food than the food itself. . . . more than is ever talked about ... because people mostly believe the body is like a machine and needs to be fed vitamins/minerals carbs , protein and fat. Our strong faith in science in our western culture is . telling. We've forgotten how to listen to our absolutely uniquely individual wants, needs and desires in favor of what the supposed "authorities" tell us they *think*they know. No one knows you and me better than you and me. But ... we gotta listen. I realize this is a cycling forum . .. . but hey you know we're all humans. We're not machines just riding bikes and talking about them. We are so much more ... if we really knew how much it would blow our pea sized earthly brains off our bodies LoL. Yes ... that was supposed to be funny:) ... but damm straight honest too. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/xXiV3ceh-b8J. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
On Aug 13, 2011, at 2:20 PM, George Schick wrote: > It's mainly the highly processed food that we eat that creates most of the > problems. And the sugars, according to Taubes anyway. It's probably high glycemic foods in general, from his perspective, because these are quickly absorbed into the bloodstream and provoke the insulin response. http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods.htm Highly processed food, almost by definition, have had most if not all of the fiber removed and, along with that, most of the nutrients other than carbs, fats and proteins. Whole foods- i.e., pretty much left alone and eaten as nature makes them- tend not to to be highly glycemic. There are some exceptions- dried dates are extremely glycemic, for example. Even honey, the main naturally occurring concentrated sweet in much of the world, is less glycemic than glucose. We have a sweet tooth as a species because carbohydrates were hard to get and we need them (for example, the brain derives 100% of its energy from glucose). Now we have made carbohydrates- especially simple sugars- abundant and embedded in all kinds of foods. The problem with moving towards a heavily protein based diet is that meats aren't very good for us either; they tend to be high in saturated fats and various cooking methods increase mutagenicity. Whomever referenced Grandma's advice was spot on. I'd also add Michael Pollan's advice: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
As I understand it, it isn't that carbs are bad. The problem is the quantity and type being consumed. Easily available fructose seems to be particularly problematic, whether it comes in the form of sugar, high fructose corn syrup, or juice drinks. Interesting research on this is being done by Dr. Robert Lustig at UCSF, which Taubes reports on in his NYT article on sugar: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=all -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/LGdehaBQ6WUJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Perhaps I should and I will. But some of his positions (carb = bad) as presented in this thread simply don't correspond to history. The Chinese are getting fat from Big Macs and other animal fare, not from their traditional rice. And I don't think you can refute the idea that minimal exercise is required for normal wellbeing. On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 10:55 AM, David Faller wrote: > I think you should actually read "Why We Get Fat". What you are asserting > is largely refuted in the book. > > On 8/12/2011 11:00 AM, PATRICK MOORE wrote: >> >> One huge difference between our mid-20th-century-on and the lives of >> even relatively recent forbears is simply the absence of physical >> activity. I remember, as a boy in the late '50s and early '60s how >> road crews would use picks, shovels and hand-controlled jackhammers, >> while road crews today for the most part seem to have a big, yellow >> machine to do it all. And with the move to suburbia, people don't even >> have to walk to the bus stop or train station any more. You read of >> pre-industrial or early industrial workers who spent hours every day, >> six days a week, throughout their working lives, digging, plowing, >> sawing, nailing, axing, fishing, bricklaying, etc. Even my mother's >> family, who were well-to-do provincial squirearchy in southern Luzon, >> never owned a car until the Yanks gave my by-then-provincial governor >> grandfather a military surplus jeep after WWII: they walked >> everywhere. And kids were outside playing who are now very conspicuous >> by their outdoor absence in modern neighborhoods. Even my relatively >> active way of life, with 3K miles/year on a bike, is positively >> sedentary compared to the lives of even non-laboring classes back >> before the auto, the suburbs and 24/7 couch entertainment -- Samuel >> Pepys did far more walking than I ever do. >> >> Frankly, I expect that almost complete lack of activity is in good >> part to blame for so much obesity; it's hard to see how many obese >> people could even function if they regularly had simply to walk >> further than from couch to garage, or if they had to climb a couple >> flights of stairs. >> >> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Tim McNamara >> wrote: >>> >>> On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Zack wrote: >>> I am happy to let the scientists battle this one out! I will say that I have lost 20 pounds now in about 8 weeks, and my wife has lost about 10. I had way more to lose before starting a diet that is higher in fat, filled with vegetables, and some fruits than she did. It is working for me. I have also increased the amount of greens in my diet significantly - I now have them at all three meals. And I am drinking a significant amount of water (and managing potassium and sodium levels appropriately). >>> >>> I haven't read anything by Taube so I can't comment on the scientific >>> basis for his work, except to say that the science of human nutrition is far >>> from exact. And because we are omnivores, widely varying diets can keep us >>> alive and relatively healthy. What surely seems to be bad for us is a diet >>> high in processed foods, hydrogenated fats, salt, etc., and low in fiber, >>> phytonutrients, vitamins, micronutrients, minerals, etc. >>> >>> Americans (and maybe people in other places too) probably eat a fraction >>> of the vegetables they should. If you've added a lot of vegetable to your >>> diet, this is almost certainly going to be a boost for your health and will >>> make it easier to lose weight. Many vegetables are best eaten raw. Wash >>> them thoroughly in water, though, because pesticide residues are bad for us >>> and in many cases are bioaccumulative (stored in our tissues). If farmers >>> follow the pesticide guidelines carefully, pesticide residues are very low >>> but I know (from farmers) that this is often not the case. >>> >>> http://nutrition.about.com/od/ahealthykitchen/a/washveggies.htm >>> >>> There may be a link between pesticide exposure and the risk of >>> Parkinson's disease: >>> >>> http://www.nih.gov/news/health/feb2011/niehs-11.htm >>> >>> Generally the risk seems to be observed in people with a lot of exposure- >>> crop sprayers, for example- and I don't know of any specific research >>> linking the levels one might be exposed to in food with increased risk of >>> Parkinson's. However, washing fruits and vegetables is really easy to do, >>> takes just a minute, and why take potential unnecessary risks that are so >>> easily avoided? >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > You received this messag
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I don't want to prolong this somewhat OT debate beyond the limits of reason or good taste, but I have to say that the idea that carbs as such are bad for you and unnatural to human beings simply doesn't correspond with millennia of human history. Again, it wasn't the Chinese, Filipinos, Africans, Indians, Asian and American, Irish peasants and New Guineans, Peruvian highlanders, residents of coral atolls and Italian pasta eaters, carbo eaters all, who were fat and prone to diabetes. And it was Europeans who ate the most meat and cheese and dairy, leaving out Inuit and Sioux and perhaps Masai (who lived largely off blood and milk, plus millet traded for with other tribes) and other small groups who ate mostly meat or dairy or fish. FWIW, corn -- growing, eating -- is integral to Hopi spiritual life I don't say that Taube is all wrong or that one might not benefit from his dietary recommendations, but to make carbs the culprit for the modern West's ill health is clearly in contradiction with history and experience. As for examining human experience, he seems to have rather strangely left out a good part of it in his researches. Patrick "trim without trying at 170 and a long torso'd (Asian build) 5'10" from loading on beer, bread, pasta -- but no processed foods!" Moore On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 10:47 AM, David Faller wrote: > > My point is that Taubes' observations of the hundreds of studies (world > wide) of human metabolism point to the same general conclusion: Humans are > animals, and proteins are far and away the dominant nutrients required by > our bodies. We have, physiologically, almost no use for carbohydrates, and > our bodies' insulin system bears that out. Yes, we can tolerate them and > even use them effectively, but humans have succumbed to living off of them > and are doing more so as time goes by. The parallel with the global > increase in obesity and most major diseases is stunningly obvious, yet we do > everything in our power to deny it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I think you should actually read "Why We Get Fat". What you are asserting is largely refuted in the book. On 8/12/2011 11:00 AM, PATRICK MOORE wrote: One huge difference between our mid-20th-century-on and the lives of even relatively recent forbears is simply the absence of physical activity. I remember, as a boy in the late '50s and early '60s how road crews would use picks, shovels and hand-controlled jackhammers, while road crews today for the most part seem to have a big, yellow machine to do it all. And with the move to suburbia, people don't even have to walk to the bus stop or train station any more. You read of pre-industrial or early industrial workers who spent hours every day, six days a week, throughout their working lives, digging, plowing, sawing, nailing, axing, fishing, bricklaying, etc. Even my mother's family, who were well-to-do provincial squirearchy in southern Luzon, never owned a car until the Yanks gave my by-then-provincial governor grandfather a military surplus jeep after WWII: they walked everywhere. And kids were outside playing who are now very conspicuous by their outdoor absence in modern neighborhoods. Even my relatively active way of life, with 3K miles/year on a bike, is positively sedentary compared to the lives of even non-laboring classes back before the auto, the suburbs and 24/7 couch entertainment -- Samuel Pepys did far more walking than I ever do. Frankly, I expect that almost complete lack of activity is in good part to blame for so much obesity; it's hard to see how many obese people could even function if they regularly had simply to walk further than from couch to garage, or if they had to climb a couple flights of stairs. On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Zack wrote: I am happy to let the scientists battle this one out! I will say that I have lost 20 pounds now in about 8 weeks, and my wife has lost about 10. I had way more to lose before starting a diet that is higher in fat, filled with vegetables, and some fruits than she did. It is working for me. I have also increased the amount of greens in my diet significantly - I now have them at all three meals. And I am drinking a significant amount of water (and managing potassium and sodium levels appropriately). I haven't read anything by Taube so I can't comment on the scientific basis for his work, except to say that the science of human nutrition is far from exact. And because we are omnivores, widely varying diets can keep us alive and relatively healthy. What surely seems to be bad for us is a diet high in processed foods, hydrogenated fats, salt, etc., and low in fiber, phytonutrients, vitamins, micronutrients, minerals, etc. Americans (and maybe people in other places too) probably eat a fraction of the vegetables they should. If you've added a lot of vegetable to your diet, this is almost certainly going to be a boost for your health and will make it easier to lose weight. Many vegetables are best eaten raw. Wash them thoroughly in water, though, because pesticide residues are bad for us and in many cases are bioaccumulative (stored in our tissues). If farmers follow the pesticide guidelines carefully, pesticide residues are very low but I know (from farmers) that this is often not the case. http://nutrition.about.com/od/ahealthykitchen/a/washveggies.htm There may be a link between pesticide exposure and the risk of Parkinson's disease: http://www.nih.gov/news/health/feb2011/niehs-11.htm Generally the risk seems to be observed in people with a lot of exposure- crop sprayers, for example- and I don't know of any specific research linking the levels one might be exposed to in food with increased risk of Parkinson's. However, washing fruits and vegetables is really easy to do, takes just a minute, and why take potential unnecessary risks that are so easily avoided? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Your experience is very similar to mine. I bought and read both of Taubes' books. I do not follow his recommendations to the letter, by any means, but I did quit most sugar and most carbs. I still have a sandwich now and then, and I eat some chips here and there. I still love beer, but I cut back on that, too. Guess what? 14 pounds in the past two months. Oh, and I'm riding less than I was in the spring, but my average speed has gone way up and I find hill climbing to be very noticeably easier. My point is that Taubes' observations of the hundreds of studies (world wide) of human metabolism point to the same general conclusion: Humans are animals, and proteins are far and away the dominant nutrients required by our bodies. We have, physiologically, almost no use for carbohydrates, and our bodies' insulin system bears that out. Yes, we can tolerate them and even use them effectively, but humans have succumbed to living off of them and are doing more so as time goes by. The parallel with the global increase in obesity and most major diseases is stunningly obvious, yet we do everything in our power to deny it. I'm no zealot, and I'm suspicious of anyone who says there's only one way to do something like "diet", but when a simple shift in the percentage of carbs I consume made a (nearly) immediate improvement in my overall health, I was sold. I know I could never follow a strict "Primal" diet, but strong adjustments in that direction are still measurably beneficial. On 8/13/2011 7:50 AM, George Schick wrote: Since the subject of Taubes' book finally came up on a thread I might as well check to say that I've been on it for several months now and have lost roughly 14 pounds. I'm 5' 9" and weighed around 191; I've dropped to the mid-170's and am aiming for the low 170's. I'm wearing clothing now that I never thought I'd be able to wear again in this life. My wife has been on it, too, and is losing weight also. I have to thank Riv (Grant) for publishing so much in his readers and on his web site about Taubes and the book. Had it not been for that it's unlikely that I would've gotten a copy. My wife and I both read it and were fascinated by the story Taubes tells about the kind of diet that was common among many different races and cultures around the globe and what happened to them when their main food sources were taken away and they were forced to rely on the Western diet of mainly carbs.And, although Taubes never really comes right out and says it in so many words, it makes one wonder if a bit of conspiracy didn't take place in the late 50's/early 60's when the food processing industry began to really ramp up production of cereals, ready-to-eat toaster pastries, etc. Seems like that was when the food pyramid concept began to be so heavily touted. Draw backs to and warnings about the diet would be these: 1) Taubes stresses that you should drink a couple of cups of bullion daily. DON'T ignore this! A couple of days ago I had to replace the front "flex pipe" on my pickup and I fought cramps in my legs, neck, and even hands the entire time I was crawling around under the truck. You simply have to replace the sodium that would normally be supplied by carbs with something else. 2) Figure out how you can deal with cravings by eating something other than carb snacks. I'm fortunate in that regard because I'll eat almost anything - so a tin of sardines or kippers, a bag of pork rinds, etc. - they do the trick. If you absolutely can't stand any of that stuff try Atkins bars from the drug store. 3) Taubes recommends a certain amount of leafy greens and non- starchy vegetables every day. This is important unless you want to suffer from unique bowel problems - I've leave it go at that. At this point I can't say that I really miss all of the breads and other carbs I thought I could never live without. I do miss good beer, though, especially the excellent craft brewed stuff so every once in a while I just have to have one. Other than that I'd think the biggest draw back to the diet down the road is going to be sticking to it. I've heard many stories from people who went on the Atkins diet a decade or so ago, lost weight, then gained it back again when the began to stray from it. It sure is easier climbing hills sans 14 or so pounds, though! On Aug 13, 7:16 am, Michael Hechmer wrote: Actually, the bulk of the Taubes book is a review of hundreds of obeisity studies from around the world over the last 250 years or so. Taubes is not making any new or novel scientific claims, but rather summarizing the conclusions of those studies and pointing out that today's dominant nutritional advice is at odds with all of the underlying scientific research. Arguing that insulin levels are not the key variable in weight gain is much like arguing that volcanoes are the major cause of global warming, after every independent climate scientist has rejected the conclusion. If so
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
Actually, the bulk of the Taubes book is a review of hundreds of obeisity studies from around the world over the last 250 years or so. Taubes is not making any new or novel scientific claims, but rather summarizing the conclusions of those studies and pointing out that today's dominant nutritional advice is at odds with all of the underlying scientific research. Arguing that insulin levels are not the key variable in weight gain is much like arguing that volcanoes are the major cause of global warming, after every independent climate scientist has rejected the conclusion. If someone wants to dispute the veracity of his conclusions they will need to show that insulin does not determine what happens to the calories we consume. I still eat brownies and ice cream, but I don't delude myself about what happens inside my body when I do. michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ePz_c5TrlWIJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyXa39ICIrk This is a quick watch and gets to a lot of the points in the book. Worth a few minutes if you don't have the time or inclination to buy and read the book. BTW - I know people who exercise way more than me, but they are double my weight. Exercise may be good for your muscles and a way to release stress, but it ain't a diet. Exercise is a fad, a crutch for those with time/money to kill - like most of us. I found the other more important (to me) ideas he is talking about in the book are not weight related, but the ties our carb rich diets have with cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc... Brian Seattle On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:54 PM, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > I don't doubt Taube's ideas work for some, even for many; what I doubt > (from other things I have read and from what I simply have seen in NA, > Europe, Asia and Africa) is that it contains the entire truth about > nutrition and related health. Again, there is simply too much variety > across the world and across history. > > In particular, I discount the idea that exercising more will making > you gain or at least keep you from losing weight, at least as a > universal proposition; not my experience at all. > > I'm certainly glad that Taube's ideas worked for you. > > And of course, I admit, that were I to undertake a scholarly > examination of the book, I'd have to read it first. But I did read and > re-read all the Riv published on the subject > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Zack wrote: > > I would suggest reading the book. There is lots of information about > > activity levels having no direct correlation to obesity (other than as we > > get fatter we are less active, and get more tired when we do an activity, > > which then leads to us eating more). Worth a read, it will take an > > afternoon, and what you read may change your mind. > > I would say that Taubes spends half of the book debunking the calories > > in/calories out myth. Again, not a scientist, but this is working for > me. > > I have eaten organic vegetables for about 10 years, i would say that most > of > > the time I eat about 90% OG, we have a farm share/CSA that keeps us knee > > deep in veggies from spring to fall. No question that the increase in > > veggies helps one to feel healthier. > > If we are talking dropping weight though, cutting carbs has been the only > > way I have been able to do so. Personal trainers, food plans, food > > journals, vegetarian, vegan, all have failed me in the past. I am no > more > > or less committed to this way of eating than I was to those. I was > trying > > to lose weight and was really frustrated that I wasn't successful. At my > > heaviest I was 265 (I am 6'3"), i cut carbs out for a short time about > three > > years ago after being diagnosed with a fatty liver (NASH) and dropped > down > > to 210. I then added carbs back in and went back up to 240, and am > moving > > my way back down again. My activity level has remained relatively > constant, > > as has the amount of food that I eat. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/7xfUrL3evMwJ. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > Patrick Moore > Albuquerque, NM > For professional resumes, contact > Patrick Moore, ACRW > [email protected] > > A billion stars go spinning through the night > Blazing high above your head; > But in you is the Presence that will be > When all the stars are dead. > (Rilke, Buddha in Glory) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I don't doubt Taube's ideas work for some, even for many; what I doubt (from other things I have read and from what I simply have seen in NA, Europe, Asia and Africa) is that it contains the entire truth about nutrition and related health. Again, there is simply too much variety across the world and across history. In particular, I discount the idea that exercising more will making you gain or at least keep you from losing weight, at least as a universal proposition; not my experience at all. I'm certainly glad that Taube's ideas worked for you. And of course, I admit, that were I to undertake a scholarly examination of the book, I'd have to read it first. But I did read and re-read all the Riv published on the subject On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Zack wrote: > I would suggest reading the book. There is lots of information about > activity levels having no direct correlation to obesity (other than as we > get fatter we are less active, and get more tired when we do an activity, > which then leads to us eating more). Worth a read, it will take an > afternoon, and what you read may change your mind. > I would say that Taubes spends half of the book debunking the calories > in/calories out myth. Again, not a scientist, but this is working for me. > I have eaten organic vegetables for about 10 years, i would say that most of > the time I eat about 90% OG, we have a farm share/CSA that keeps us knee > deep in veggies from spring to fall. No question that the increase in > veggies helps one to feel healthier. > If we are talking dropping weight though, cutting carbs has been the only > way I have been able to do so. Personal trainers, food plans, food > journals, vegetarian, vegan, all have failed me in the past. I am no more > or less committed to this way of eating than I was to those. I was trying > to lose weight and was really frustrated that I wasn't successful. At my > heaviest I was 265 (I am 6'3"), i cut carbs out for a short time about three > years ago after being diagnosed with a fatty liver (NASH) and dropped down > to 210. I then added carbs back in and went back up to 240, and am moving > my way back down again. My activity level has remained relatively constant, > as has the amount of food that I eat. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/7xfUrL3evMwJ. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW [email protected] A billion stars go spinning through the night Blazing high above your head; But in you is the Presence that will be When all the stars are dead. (Rilke, Buddha in Glory) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
I would suggest reading the book. There is lots of information about activity levels having no direct correlation to obesity (other than as we get fatter we are less active, and get more tired when we do an activity, which then leads to us eating more). Worth a read, it will take an afternoon, and what you read may change your mind. I would say that Taubes spends half of the book debunking the calories in/calories out myth. Again, not a scientist, but this is working for me. I have eaten organic vegetables for about 10 years, i would say that most of the time I eat about 90% OG, we have a farm share/CSA that keeps us knee deep in veggies from spring to fall. No question that the increase in veggies helps one to feel healthier. If we are talking dropping weight though, cutting carbs has been the only way I have been able to do so. Personal trainers, food plans, food journals, vegetarian, vegan, all have failed me in the past. I am no more or less committed to this way of eating than I was to those. I was trying to lose weight and was really frustrated that I wasn't successful. At my heaviest I was 265 (I am 6'3"), i cut carbs out for a short time about three years ago after being diagnosed with a fatty liver (NASH) and dropped down to 210. I then added carbs back in and went back up to 240, and am moving my way back down again. My activity level has remained relatively constant, as has the amount of food that I eat. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/7xfUrL3evMwJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
One huge difference between our mid-20th-century-on and the lives of even relatively recent forbears is simply the absence of physical activity. I remember, as a boy in the late '50s and early '60s how road crews would use picks, shovels and hand-controlled jackhammers, while road crews today for the most part seem to have a big, yellow machine to do it all. And with the move to suburbia, people don't even have to walk to the bus stop or train station any more. You read of pre-industrial or early industrial workers who spent hours every day, six days a week, throughout their working lives, digging, plowing, sawing, nailing, axing, fishing, bricklaying, etc. Even my mother's family, who were well-to-do provincial squirearchy in southern Luzon, never owned a car until the Yanks gave my by-then-provincial governor grandfather a military surplus jeep after WWII: they walked everywhere. And kids were outside playing who are now very conspicuous by their outdoor absence in modern neighborhoods. Even my relatively active way of life, with 3K miles/year on a bike, is positively sedentary compared to the lives of even non-laboring classes back before the auto, the suburbs and 24/7 couch entertainment -- Samuel Pepys did far more walking than I ever do. Frankly, I expect that almost complete lack of activity is in good part to blame for so much obesity; it's hard to see how many obese people could even function if they regularly had simply to walk further than from couch to garage, or if they had to climb a couple flights of stairs. On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: > > On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Zack wrote: > >> I am happy to let the scientists battle this one out! I will say that I >> have lost 20 pounds now in about 8 weeks, and my wife has lost about 10. I >> had way more to lose before starting a diet that is higher in fat, filled >> with vegetables, and some fruits than she did. It is working for me. >> >> I have also increased the amount of greens in my diet significantly - I now >> have them at all three meals. And I am drinking a significant amount of >> water (and managing potassium and sodium levels appropriately). > > > I haven't read anything by Taube so I can't comment on the scientific basis > for his work, except to say that the science of human nutrition is far from > exact. And because we are omnivores, widely varying diets can keep us alive > and relatively healthy. What surely seems to be bad for us is a diet high in > processed foods, hydrogenated fats, salt, etc., and low in fiber, > phytonutrients, vitamins, micronutrients, minerals, etc. > > Americans (and maybe people in other places too) probably eat a fraction of > the vegetables they should. If you've added a lot of vegetable to your diet, > this is almost certainly going to be a boost for your health and will make it > easier to lose weight. Many vegetables are best eaten raw. Wash them > thoroughly in water, though, because pesticide residues are bad for us and in > many cases are bioaccumulative (stored in our tissues). If farmers follow > the pesticide guidelines carefully, pesticide residues are very low but I > know (from farmers) that this is often not the case. > > http://nutrition.about.com/od/ahealthykitchen/a/washveggies.htm > > There may be a link between pesticide exposure and the risk of Parkinson's > disease: > > http://www.nih.gov/news/health/feb2011/niehs-11.htm > > Generally the risk seems to be observed in people with a lot of exposure- > crop sprayers, for example- and I don't know of any specific research linking > the levels one might be exposed to in food with increased risk of > Parkinson's. However, washing fruits and vegetables is really easy to do, > takes just a minute, and why take potential unnecessary risks that are so > easily avoided? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW [email protected] A billion stars go spinning through the night Blazing high above your head; But in you is the Presence that will be When all the stars are dead. (Rilke, Buddha in Glory) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting refutation of Gary Taubes' obesity ideas
On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Zack wrote: > I am happy to let the scientists battle this one out! I will say that I have > lost 20 pounds now in about 8 weeks, and my wife has lost about 10. I had > way more to lose before starting a diet that is higher in fat, filled with > vegetables, and some fruits than she did. It is working for me. > > I have also increased the amount of greens in my diet significantly - I now > have them at all three meals. And I am drinking a significant amount of > water (and managing potassium and sodium levels appropriately). I haven't read anything by Taube so I can't comment on the scientific basis for his work, except to say that the science of human nutrition is far from exact. And because we are omnivores, widely varying diets can keep us alive and relatively healthy. What surely seems to be bad for us is a diet high in processed foods, hydrogenated fats, salt, etc., and low in fiber, phytonutrients, vitamins, micronutrients, minerals, etc. Americans (and maybe people in other places too) probably eat a fraction of the vegetables they should. If you've added a lot of vegetable to your diet, this is almost certainly going to be a boost for your health and will make it easier to lose weight. Many vegetables are best eaten raw. Wash them thoroughly in water, though, because pesticide residues are bad for us and in many cases are bioaccumulative (stored in our tissues). If farmers follow the pesticide guidelines carefully, pesticide residues are very low but I know (from farmers) that this is often not the case. http://nutrition.about.com/od/ahealthykitchen/a/washveggies.htm There may be a link between pesticide exposure and the risk of Parkinson's disease: http://www.nih.gov/news/health/feb2011/niehs-11.htm Generally the risk seems to be observed in people with a lot of exposure- crop sprayers, for example- and I don't know of any specific research linking the levels one might be exposed to in food with increased risk of Parkinson's. However, washing fruits and vegetables is really easy to do, takes just a minute, and why take potential unnecessary risks that are so easily avoided? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
