Re: [RBW] Re: Lowrider racks on MIT Atlantis?

2020-06-14 Thread 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch 
Andrew

Your experience and engineering explanation backs up what Bruce Gordon 
said.  He was referring to the hoop disturbing the rotational stresses.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ




On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 12:30:53 AM UTC-4, Andrew Letton wrote:
>
> On the topic of hoopless:
>
> I bought the first generation (hoopless) Rivendell/Nitto Hub Area Rack 
> (HAR) and installed it on my Bombadil right before we moved to the southern 
> hemisphere (NZ then Oz). I also have the Platrack on a Nitto Mini-Front 
> 32F above it. I was concerned about the strength/stiffness of a hoopless 
> lowrider, but I thought that struts from the outer edges of the Platrack 
> down to the top corners of the HAR would offer enough lateral support.
>
> I was wrong. 
>
> After only about 10 days of touring, one of the fork end bosses where the 
> right HAR was mounted broke off!
>
> <*Donning Engineering Hat>  *When a hoopless lowrider is mounted at only 
> two points (fork end and mid-fork), those two points define an axis around 
> which the rack can rotate, putting some pretty severe torsional loads on 
> the bosses. (I discussed this with Grant and Mark during the development of 
> the HAR, and I think that is in part what led to the second gen hooped 
> version.) It is not the stiffness of the rack itself that it the issue; it 
> is the fact that without the third mounting support of a hoop, the 
> side-to-side wobbling of loaded panniers puts high stresses on the two 
> mounting points on the fork.
>
> The only way I will ever use a hoopless lowrider again will be if it uses 
> a through-the-fork upper mount with rack struts going to both the inner and 
> outer sides of the fork blade, like the Nitto rack on the Crust shown on 
> the Blue-Lug site and like the rare (late 80's?) Blackburn hoopless 
> lowriders.
>
> As for my Bombadil (photo attached), I haven't yet had the fork boss 
> repaired, but I was able to kluge up a fork end mount with a P-clamp and I 
> added a hoop (from an old Blackburn lowrider) using a couple more small 
> P-clamps. Not elegant, but it works.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew 
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 14, 2020, 07:15:08 AM GMT+10, dougP  > wrote: 
>
>
> Dave's problem looks to be solved.  I do want to throw in a couple of 
> things about Tubus racks:
>
> 1.  The quoted 165 mm fork tip to mid-fork is what Tubus uses.  It is a 
> commonly used dimension but hardly universal.  Case in point being Bruce 
> Gordon racks. The mid fork mount MUST be correctly located for the Duo to 
> sit level.  While the Duo has 3 mounting holes, the adjustment is limited.
>
> 2. An advantage of the Tara is it can be used with a bolt on mid fork 
> mount.  No eyelet needed.
>
> 3.  "Hoopless is hopeless" is a myth, despite being Bruce's stand on the 
> question.  The main tube on the Duo is a much larger diameter, and hence 
> inherently stiffer, than the tubing on the Tara, which has the hoop.  They 
> actually weigh about the same.  The Duo is stiff enough without the hoop.  
> I've used it with Ortlieb large back rollers, stuffed full for a lodging 
> trip.  The panniers are intended for rear mount & so have limited ground 
> clearance.  OK on pavement; not good on trails.
>
> dougP, (hopelessly hoopless)
>
>
> On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 7:25:33 PM UTC-7, Brett Callahan wrote:
>
> Curious as to what lowriders people are using on Atlantii. Bonus points 
> for pix.  
>
> Brett in pdx
>
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>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lowrider racks on MIT Atlantis?

2020-06-14 Thread 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch 
Steve

Ohhh, I see, I was thinking of the round struts.  You used flat ones.
Yes, they would be thinner than 1/8" plate.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 12:04:26 PM UTC-4, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
> John, here is the lowrider with the struts attached that I used on my Troll
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:54 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> [email protected] > wrote:
>
>> Steve
>>
>> Can you provide a picture of the strutted mounting???  It seems the 
>> struts would be very short.  Or do you mount the strut to the rack like the 
>> strut to Mark's rack with a drawbolt ??
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-4, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>>
>>> I’ve adapted the BG lowriders to several different forks, I usually use 
>>> pieces of rack struts, my lbs always seems to have far more of these than 
>>> they want, and they are very handy for this sort of thing. Steve
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:11 AM Bill Schairer  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 John,

 The steel used is 1/2 inch by .14 inch because that is what I had on 
 hand.  I suspect a lighter solution would work, aluminum maybe? I believe 
 my Atlantis is a Waterford bike.  No spacers were required for either 
 bike.  I don’t think it matters if braze-ons are above or below.  On the 
 Atlantis they are higher than the rack and on the tandem below.  The 
 tandem 
 braze-on spacing appears very close to 165 and the Atlantis seems to be 
 220.  The rack appears to be in the 190 range.

 Bill S

 On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 6:25:01 AM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Bill
>
> Looks like a great solution and it would seem to work if the fork 
> brazeons were below the rack mounting point, e.g., a BG rack on a fork 
> with 
> 165mm brazeon spacing.
>
> Is the 1st picture the MIT Atlantis??  If so, it clearly shows the 
> braze-ons mounted higher on the fork than most racks require. 
>
> Did you have to use a spacer on the backside so the short connector 
> clears the tube of the rack??
>
> What gauge steel sheet did you use??
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 8:40:25 AM UTC-4, Bill Schairer wrote:
>>
>> My solution with the BG rack was to “fabricate” (cut a couple short 
>> pieces of steel flat stock and drilled two holes) a short steel 
>> connector 
>> piece from the rack mounting point to the braze on.  I’ve done it on two 
>> different bikes and it has been a rock solid solution that I, 
>> personally, 
>> think is cleaner looking than p-clamps or that tubus thing. I should 
>> think 
>> the same approach could be taken with almost any rack and, to my mind, 
>> is 
>> really no different than all the various mountings of racks with 
>> adjustable 
>> stays that I’ve seen.  I’ve had trouble loading pics recently but I’ll 
>> try 
>> again.
>>
>> [image: IMG_1012.jpeg]
>>
>> [image: 2019-07-15_14-42-04-0700.jpeg]
>> Bill S
>>
>> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 1:50:56 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought the 'standard' mounting point on the fork was 165mm from 
>>> the fork dropout.   Bruce Gordon used 7" (178mm) for his front rack, 
>>> and 
>>> Waterford used his spacing in the late 90's and early 2000's.
>>>
>>> The RBW braze-ons look too high to fit the racks without odd looking 
>>> backward tilt.  They should have used 2 braze-ons:  1 for the low rider 
>>> and 
>>> 1 for the front rack (mounted higher),  penny-wise, pound foolish
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 4:31:28 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

 Is that lower-rear mount on the fork really for low rider racks? It 
 looks like a high-mount for fender stays to me. 
>>>
>>> -- 
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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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 .
>>>
>>>
 -- 
>>> Steven Sweedler
>>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lowrider racks on MIT Atlantis?

2020-06-14 Thread 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch 
Steve

Can you provide a picture of the strutted mounting???  It seems the struts 
would be very short.  Or do you mount the strut to the rack like the strut 
to Mark's rack with a drawbolt ??

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-4, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
> I’ve adapted the BG lowriders to several different forks, I usually use 
> pieces of rack struts, my lbs always seems to have far more of these than 
> they want, and they are very handy for this sort of thing. Steve
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:11 AM Bill Schairer  > wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> The steel used is 1/2 inch by .14 inch because that is what I had on 
>> hand.  I suspect a lighter solution would work, aluminum maybe? I believe 
>> my Atlantis is a Waterford bike.  No spacers were required for either 
>> bike.  I don’t think it matters if braze-ons are above or below.  On the 
>> Atlantis they are higher than the rack and on the tandem below.  The tandem 
>> braze-on spacing appears very close to 165 and the Atlantis seems to be 
>> 220.  The rack appears to be in the 190 range.
>>
>> Bill S
>>
>> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 6:25:01 AM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> Looks like a great solution and it would seem to work if the fork 
>>> brazeons were below the rack mounting point, e.g., a BG rack on a fork with 
>>> 165mm brazeon spacing.
>>>
>>> Is the 1st picture the MIT Atlantis??  If so, it clearly shows the 
>>> braze-ons mounted higher on the fork than most racks require. 
>>>
>>> Did you have to use a spacer on the backside so the short connector 
>>> clears the tube of the rack??
>>>
>>> What gauge steel sheet did you use??
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 8:40:25 AM UTC-4, Bill Schairer wrote:

 My solution with the BG rack was to “fabricate” (cut a couple short 
 pieces of steel flat stock and drilled two holes) a short steel connector 
 piece from the rack mounting point to the braze on.  I’ve done it on two 
 different bikes and it has been a rock solid solution that I, personally, 
 think is cleaner looking than p-clamps or that tubus thing. I should think 
 the same approach could be taken with almost any rack and, to my mind, is 
 really no different than all the various mountings of racks with 
 adjustable 
 stays that I’ve seen.  I’ve had trouble loading pics recently but I’ll try 
 again.

 [image: IMG_1012.jpeg]

 [image: 2019-07-15_14-42-04-0700.jpeg]
 Bill S

 On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 1:50:56 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> I thought the 'standard' mounting point on the fork was 165mm from the 
> fork dropout.   Bruce Gordon used 7" (178mm) for his front rack, and 
> Waterford used his spacing in the late 90's and early 2000's.
>
> The RBW braze-ons look too high to fit the racks without odd looking 
> backward tilt.  They should have used 2 braze-ons:  1 for the low rider 
> and 
> 1 for the front rack (mounted higher),  penny-wise, pound foolish
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 4:31:28 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Is that lower-rear mount on the fork really for low rider racks? It 
>> looks like a high-mount for fender stays to me. 
>
> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to [email protected] .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5dd1ddb7-955b-4307-b597-996f4ccc3b19o%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lowrider racks on MIT Atlantis?

2020-06-14 Thread Steven Sweedler 
I’ve adapted the BG lowriders to several different forks, I usually use
pieces of rack struts, my lbs always seems to have far more of these than
they want, and they are very handy for this sort of thing. Steve

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:11 AM Bill Schairer  wrote:

> John,
>
> The steel used is 1/2 inch by .14 inch because that is what I had on
> hand.  I suspect a lighter solution would work, aluminum maybe? I believe
> my Atlantis is a Waterford bike.  No spacers were required for either
> bike.  I don’t think it matters if braze-ons are above or below.  On the
> Atlantis they are higher than the rack and on the tandem below.  The tandem
> braze-on spacing appears very close to 165 and the Atlantis seems to be
> 220.  The rack appears to be in the 190 range.
>
> Bill S
>
> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 6:25:01 AM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Looks like a great solution and it would seem to work if the fork
>> brazeons were below the rack mounting point, e.g., a BG rack on a fork with
>> 165mm brazeon spacing.
>>
>> Is the 1st picture the MIT Atlantis??  If so, it clearly shows the
>> braze-ons mounted higher on the fork than most racks require.
>>
>> Did you have to use a spacer on the backside so the short connector
>> clears the tube of the rack??
>>
>> What gauge steel sheet did you use??
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 8:40:25 AM UTC-4, Bill Schairer wrote:
>>>
>>> My solution with the BG rack was to “fabricate” (cut a couple short
>>> pieces of steel flat stock and drilled two holes) a short steel connector
>>> piece from the rack mounting point to the braze on.  I’ve done it on two
>>> different bikes and it has been a rock solid solution that I, personally,
>>> think is cleaner looking than p-clamps or that tubus thing. I should think
>>> the same approach could be taken with almost any rack and, to my mind, is
>>> really no different than all the various mountings of racks with adjustable
>>> stays that I’ve seen.  I’ve had trouble loading pics recently but I’ll try
>>> again.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_1012.jpeg]
>>>
>>> [image: 2019-07-15_14-42-04-0700.jpeg]
>>> Bill S
>>>
>>> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 1:50:56 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:

 I thought the 'standard' mounting point on the fork was 165mm from the
 fork dropout.   Bruce Gordon used 7" (178mm) for his front rack, and
 Waterford used his spacing in the late 90's and early 2000's.

 The RBW braze-ons look too high to fit the racks without odd looking
 backward tilt.  They should have used 2 braze-ons:  1 for the low rider and
 1 for the front rack (mounted higher),  penny-wise, pound foolish

 John Hawrylak
 Woodstown NJ

 On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 4:31:28 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Is that lower-rear mount on the fork really for low rider racks? It
> looks like a high-mount for fender stays to me.

 --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lowrider racks on MIT Atlantis?

2020-06-13 Thread 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch 
Nice looking rack, but I think Bruce Gordon said "Hopeless is helpless".  
RBW even offers their low rider racks with a bolt on hoop.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ



On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 9:13:00 AM UTC-4, ed wrote:
>
> Here is their blog on the new S rack.
> https://bluelug.com/blog/global/s-rack/
>
> Ed Fausto
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:05 PM Dave Johnston  > wrote:
>
>> There are versions of the MIT Atlantis that have both Mark's rack 
>> braze-ons and Low rider braze-ons.
>> Probably can't go wrong with a Tubus Tara.
>> I can double check to see if a Tubus Duo or Grand expedition will work 
>> sometime this weekend. I have a 53cm still in the box.
>> Pic from Rivendell website:
>>
>>
>> [image: Rivendell-New-Atlantis-Touring-Bicycle-Square-10_1600x.jpg]
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 1:22:39 PM UTC-4, Ryan Nute wrote:
>>>
>>> Doug, how does it attach to the fork blades?  I thought Atlantii didn't 
>>> have lowrider mounts.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lowrider racks on MIT Atlantis?

2020-06-13 Thread Bill Lindsay 
The product page lists the price as $108.77 per side:

https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-s-rack.html

Both sides are in stock.  If I bought one I'd buy both sides.  I wouldn't 
be scared to run an errand with only one side installed.  I use a plastic 
Salsa Anything Rack for Growler runs, and so I've ridden my bike a fair bit 
with ~3kg on one fork leg, including a short length of single track 
switchbacks.  An unbalanced front end doesn't ride better, and I can notice 
it, but it's not a problem.  If I lose control of my bike and crash on a 
growler run, it'll probably be because it's my second growler run.  ;)

Bill Lindsay
Sometimes Arnold CA


On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:38:03 AM UTC-7, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
wrote:
>
> That's a great looking rack, but then there's this quote that made me 
> wince-
>
> "This rack sold individually. So I installed only right side, for my daily 
> bike.
>
> Maximum load capacity is 6kg (around 13 pounds) I could carry 28 Japanese 
> comics!"
>
> Doesn't make it any less of a rack, I just think it's a little 
> irresponsible to sell lowriders one at a time with balance being so 
> critical to safe and comfortable steering. Presumably this is an expensive 
> rack, what with all the points of brazing and complicated bends, but one 
> should buy two.
>
> -Kai
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lowrider racks on MIT Atlantis?

2020-06-13 Thread Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
That's a great looking rack, but then there's this quote that made me wince-

"This rack sold individually. So I installed only right side, for my daily bike.

Maximum load capacity is 6kg (around 13 pounds) I could carry 28 Japanese 
comics!"

Doesn't make it any less of a rack, I just think it's a little irresponsible to 
sell lowriders one at a time with balance being so critical to safe and 
comfortable steering. Presumably this is an expensive rack, what with all the 
points of brazing and complicated bends, but one should buy two.

-Kai

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lowrider racks on MIT Atlantis?

2020-06-13 Thread Ed Fausto 
Here is their blog on the new S rack.
https://bluelug.com/blog/global/s-rack/

Ed Fausto

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:05 PM Dave Johnston  wrote:

> There are versions of the MIT Atlantis that have both Mark's rack
> braze-ons and Low rider braze-ons.
> Probably can't go wrong with a Tubus Tara.
> I can double check to see if a Tubus Duo or Grand expedition will work
> sometime this weekend. I have a 53cm still in the box.
> Pic from Rivendell website:
>
>
> [image: Rivendell-New-Atlantis-Touring-Bicycle-Square-10_1600x.jpg]
>
>
> On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 1:22:39 PM UTC-4, Ryan Nute wrote:
>>
>> Doug, how does it attach to the fork blades?  I thought Atlantii didn't
>> have lowrider mounts.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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