Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
on 6/6/10 9:21 AM, William at [email protected] wrote: > I personally think the Rapha thing represents something very good for > cycling, just like I think Rivendell represents something very good > for cycling. The thing they have in common, for me, is encouragement > and advocacy of an attitude towards cycling that expands the variety > of things that are cool about cycling. There are numerous other > companies that also expand the envelope of what cycling is. Ten years > ago, virtually all hard core roadies, or their associated wannabes > were all about team kits. Rapha has helped expand that, especially > with the Continental, to include wool, and stylish basic colors (and > black shorts!) back into the realm of high end roadie gear. Maybe > that look or vibe was cool all along, but no company that I know of > has lately presented that look as the height of fashion and style. > And there's still plenty of room for those who want to wear synthetic > team kits. Rivendell also goes against the conventional wisdom about > what a bicycle is and what a bicyclist dresses like. Lots of cyclists > think of Rivendell as an exclusivist pompous boutique because you can > buy a Surly for cheaper that is 'just as good'. And here are Rive > users implying (or stating outright) that Rapha wearers are some other > kind of stuck up fashionistas, while it's us that are the normal > everyman. I personally think it's a waste of tie for cyclist in > general to categorize themselves in to cliques and then figure out > ways to emphasize our differences. It seems to me that, at least in > my lifetime, cycling has never had a broader set of participants than > it does today, and I think that is extremely exciting. There's plenty > of room for all of us. That's really well put, William. I think one could throw an even wider lasso than that, to include the KoF's involved with the Cirque du Cyclism, practical approaches like ANT, the Oregon Manifest, the NA Handbuilt Shows, the anarchy of cyclocross and those kids down the street who cobble together low-budget bikes out of cast off bits. It's the core love of cycling which keeps these things going. Cycling enthusiasts generally will evolve, and if they come to bicycles by way of matching team kits and carbon bikes, that's fine too. As obvious as good position, comfortable frames and having a great time out riding is to us, we're a relative outlier in the perceived spectrum. Visible companies like Rivendell, Rapha, etc., give folks a way to migrate away from the racing paradigm. We help to recruit by example, knickers and normal shorts, jerseys that don't stink and bikes that let us bring more than a gel pack or two onto a stunning variety of trails. Rivendell and Rapha are examples of relatively small, nimble companies able exist because they focus on what makes sense to them, and as GP has overtly written, they figure that it will interest other people too. History is full of companies that went away because they were all hype and image, while their products ranged from "meh" to craptaculous. Both Rivendell and Rapha have elected to succeed or fail on their terms. It's hard not to give that the respect it deserves. One can certainly decide how and where to draw the line with one's pocketbook, but I think it's impossible to make the case that we're not the better for their existence. - Jim -- Jim Edgar [email protected] Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Workshops of the iBob's -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
Rivendell is doing this in front of your tent on Mt. Diablo.. But I really like the simile. From: Philip Williamson In summation: Rivendell is making food with friends and eating it on your porch. Rapha is buying food with friends in a really cool restaurant. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
OK, while we're basking in hat love, I have to put a plug in for my local fave, Walz. Great little cottage industry sort of a thing. Run buy a couple down in Fallbrook. http://walzcaps.com/ On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 4:26 AM, Bruce wrote: > Thanks for the link... > > -- > *From:* Steve Palincsar > * > * > If you like the cap -- I have one and I love mine -- you can get them > directly from the maker. http://www.randijofab.com/ Formerly known as > Rainy Peak Cyclery, it's now Randi Jo's Fabrications. Here's a direct > link to the wool caps (they have other products as well) > https://www.randijofab.com/products/wool-caps > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym." ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
On Sat, 2010-06-05 at 05:42 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > I'm very curious how y'all can see out from under those long bills. Randi Jo's caps have very short bills -- but when I wear one under a helmet I have it turned backwards, where it does not obscure my vision and, incidentally, shades the back of my neck. I also cannot see the road wearing a cap with a long bill. > When I pull a cap down snugly enough to keep it on my head (I do > have thick and more than shoulder length hair in a pony tail, so my > hats have to be firmly in place) the bill blocks my vision unless I am > sitting bolt upright. Even on the hoods it gets in the way, and this > is true even of ordinary cycling caps with shorter brims. I have very > short, 4 cm brims on my caps, which are either custom made or altered. > > So, do you sit bolt upright, or do your caps balance on the tops of > your heads? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
I'm very curious how y'all can see out from under those long bills. When I pull a cap down snugly enough to keep it on my head (I do have thick and more than shoulder length hair in a pony tail, so my hats have to be firmly in place) the bill blocks my vision unless I am sitting bolt upright. Even on the hoods it gets in the way, and this is true even of ordinary cycling caps with shorter brims. I have very short, 4 cm brims on my caps, which are either custom made or altered. So, do you sit bolt upright, or do your caps balance on the tops of your heads? No, my forehead is not 1/2" high. On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:26 AM, Bruce wrote: > Thanks for the link... > > -- > *From:* Steve Palincsar > * > * > If you like the cap -- I have one and I love mine -- you can get them > directly from the maker. http://www.randijofab.com/ Formerly known as > Rainy Peak Cyclery, it's now Randi Jo's Fabrications. Here's a direct > link to the wool caps (they have other products as well) > https://www.randijofab.com/products/wool-caps > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
Thanks for the link... From: Steve Palincsar If you like the cap -- I have one and I love mine -- you can get them directly from the maker. http://www.randijofab.com/ Formerly known as Rainy Peak Cyclery, it's now Randi Jo's Fabrications. Here's a direct link to the wool caps (they have other products as well) https://www.randijofab.com/products/wool-caps -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
On Fri, 2010-06-04 at 17:38 -0700, Bruce wrote: > > I also have two Rivendell wool caps, both in orange and they are the > older design and the current one. These Wooly Stubbies are unlined, > but are also well made and the advertiding says so. "the embroidery > seems to perfectly match the bill color. The proportions are perfect; > the stitching, neat and consistent. We wear them all year long. " > Btw, I wear mine in the Summer too. Wool is excellent for sweat > management. These caps are $30 each and are of simpler construction, > and no fancy label. If you like the cap -- I have one and I love mine -- you can get them directly from the maker. http://www.randijofab.com/ Formerly known as Rainy Peak Cyclery, it's now Randi Jo's Fabrications. Here's a direct link to the wool caps (they have other products as well) https://www.randijofab.com/products/wool-caps -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
I just received a Rapha cycling cap in the mail. You may recall it being advertised on this list recently. My 1st purchase of Rapha anything. (I was given a Rapha water bottle, but that's another story.) Anyway, the interior label, 70mm x 100mm in size and sewn to the underside of the crown, states, "Sartorial excellence for the discerning cyclist. Essential Performance Roadwear." Now let me say that the cap is well designed, exhibits high manufacturing quality and feels great on my head. I would never buy one of these for ANY of the reasons printed on the label however. I like that it looks good, feels good, and will be a good Spring/Fall cap. It will not affect my cycling performance one iota, or make me feel natty. It sells for $60 with an enameled pin (mine did not come with a pin) I also have two Rivendell wool caps, both in orange and they are the older design and the current one. These Wooly Stubbies are unlined, but are also well made and the advertiding says so. "the embroidery seems to perfectly match the bill color. The proportions are perfect; the stitching, neat and consistent. We wear them all year long. " Btw, I wear mine in the Summer too. Wool is excellent for sweat management. These caps are $30 each and are of simpler construction, and no fancy label. I think both caps are probably worth what they sell for, and will give good service when used as intended. Riv's sales pitch is far more to my liking, but that's why over the past few years, I've accumulated lots of Riv stuff, and no Rapha stuff before this. And this only because as a used item and with a lower price, I could justify to myself. From: newenglandbike To: RBW Owners Bunch Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 7:12:09 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell Beyond the fact that they are both in the bicycling business, I personally don't see any similarity between the aesthetic or 'philosophy' of Rapha and Rivendell.One sells expensive bike clothing made in China for the 'serious cyclist' (their words)*, and the other seems to encourage riding in the same clothing, made in the USA, for what it's worth, that you'd use to go to a barbecue, or work, or on a guided tour of the California State Railroad museum. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
On Jun 4, 2010, at 8:58 AM, JoelMatthews wrote: > > GP appears to follow what he likes and hopes enough agree that he and > his employees make a living. Rapha uses a well conceived and executed > marketing plan to convince people to pay more for merchandise it makes > than similar merchandise made by its competitors. > I always hear this, but with a few exceptions, Rapha stuff isn't more expensive than their competitors. A quick glance through the latest Colorado Cyclist catalog shows many shorts and jerseys priced higher. Rapha seems to be in the middle of the range of the fancy brands (Capo, Castelli, Campy, Assos, Panache). Just like Rivendell, you can spend more, less, or even a lot less and get gear that does the job. We had a slow night at work and a perused the Rapha site and I don't really see the crazy hyperbole everyone talks about. The product pages seemed mostly descriptive. Of course they were positive, they're selling the stuff. The other articles and features seemed to be mostly about the joys of riding. I liked this quote: "Over and over I watch my peers complain right up until the moment where the clap of the cleat into the pedal resonates through their body. And then it is all gone. The complaints and problems that previously occupied the mind have winked out into nonexistence, and in their stead, the foolish grins of people enjoying themselves." I still see the two companies as strikingly similar. Reading both their respective propaganda, I find that occasionally I want to buy their products, but more often, it makes me want to go out and ride. Of course my friends would say that making me want to ride is like shooting fish in a barrel! Sorry for Keeping this Rapha thread going. Cheers, Ryan, Riv & Rapha Fan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
I said: My take? Riv has no marketing strategy as such; instead they have Grant's (a) love of bicycles and (b) whimsical humor. My sense is that the names, poems, etc. are not at all deliberate, thought out marketing tactics and strategies as commonly understood -- I write many upper level marketing resumes, and I know how that works. John said: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 9:46 PM, John Speare wrote: > > For the most part, I think "marketing" deserves a bad rap -- it's > often a pack of lies or manipulation of our fears or sentimental > sucker punches. But in GP's case, marketing appears to be an extension > of the Riv "ethic." It's sort of marketing at it's best: just telling > the story of your products with as much genuine honesty as you > reasonably can. > > But in the end, I still see it as marketing. > -- > > I believe that John got it more right than I did. Yes, marketing, but a direct expression of his somewhat whimsical love of bikes and related products. But not an LLBean creation of "a certain atmosphere" or, IMO, even a VO or Rapha "image" -- I believe that Grant is too honest for a deliberate creation of "image" -- the image is simply what he believes and loves. And I bet he hates being analyzed in this way on list. Sorry ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
My take? Riv has no marketing strategy as such; instead they have Grant's (a) love of bicycles and (b) whimsical humor. My sense is that the names, poems, etc. are not at all deliberate, thought out marketing tactics and strategies as commonly understood -- I write many upper level marketing resumes, and I know how that works. Grant said long ago that Riv is product driven, not market driven, and I believe that is still true -- and, paradoxically, that that is the reason it has succeeded. Basically: Riv loves bikes and they are lucky enough to have found a niche to make a modest financial success from their love. Now my take on VO is that that combines more deliberate marketing, a la Rapha, for example, along with a genuine love of products. On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 9:26 PM, XO-1.org Rough Riders < [email protected]> wrote: > Yes, perhaps "brilliant" for the extant Riv fans who read it, but > "marketing" implies reaching beyond the current fan/customer base. I > don't see that happening, and never really have. > > On Jun 3, 6:12 pm, [email protected] wrote: > > Are you kidding? The whole Homer Hilsen hype with the epic poem and > > everything? It was brilliant! Unfortunately, whoever came up with that > campaign, > > wasn't there for the Roadeo or later models. > > > > In a message dated 6/3/2010 8:30:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > It doesn't appear to me that Rivendell has a "marketing strategy," > > other than running small ads in Bicycle Quarterly and Adventure > > Cyclist... > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:26 PM, XO-1.org Rough Riders wrote: > > Yes, perhaps "brilliant" for the extant Riv fans who read it, but > "marketing" implies reaching beyond the current fan/customer base. I > don't see that happening, and never really have. > I guess it depends on how one defines "marketing." I define it as promoting your products so people buy them. Aside from his abilities at getting interesting bikes built/shipped in our current world (which is a huge talent), I think marketing is Grant Petersen's strongest strength. I've had Bridgestone catalogs, Rivendell catalogs, and Readers laying around my house for years. Many times, non-bikey friends have picked up this stuff, read it, and remarked on how just reading this stuff makes them want to ride a bike. GP has a way of mareketing a lifestyle that feels very un-marketing-y: humble, straight-forward, folksy, personable, approriately technical, reasonable, etc... it certainly pulled me in many years ago, and still charms me and makes me want to buy his stuff. For the most part, I think "marketing" deserves a bad rap -- it's often a pack of lies or manipulation of our fears or sentimental sucker punches. But in GP's case, marketing appears to be an extension of the Riv "ethic." It's sort of marketing at it's best: just telling the story of your products with as much genuine honesty as you reasonably can. But in the end, I still see it as marketing. -- John Speare Spokane, WA USA http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
Are you kidding? The whole Homer Hilsen hype with the epic poem and everything? It was brilliant! Unfortunately, whoever came up with that campaign, wasn't there for the Roadeo or later models. In a message dated 6/3/2010 8:30:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: It doesn't appear to me that Rivendell has a "marketing strategy," other than running small ads in Bicycle Quarterly and Adventure Cyclist... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
