Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Mark V]

Quick question
Front derailleur clamp is 28.6 mm?
Got this one. Seems like it doesn’t quite fit
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=4a7ba3da-dec6-41ed-ba50-1192209a9ef6&Enum=113


Sent from IBM Selectric


On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 9:40 PM Richard Rose  wrote:

> Thanks Mark.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 8, 2024, at 8:57 PM, Mark V  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi R.M. - apologies for being the Monkey's Paw or open side down
> horseshoe ...  or Eeyore's rain cloud...
>
> I believe the seat binder bolts are 5mm. And 10N-m install torque is a
> good number
>  -- here's chart giving guidelines for bolt size; fastener grade; and
> install torque.
> https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metric-bolts-maximum-torque-d_2054.html
>  -- I tried to read the grade stamped into my RoadUno bolt head, and I
> think it's a 12.9.  (my eyes ain't what they used to be and maybe never
> were)
>
> If you think you might have additional slippage issue, you can also
> schmear carbon paste around the seat tube. The little carbone bits add some
> interference.
> I've not noticed any more slipping after greasing the binder bolt and
> adding a bit of paste.   As mentioned previously, I have a GUNNAR
> CrossHairs that slipped when I used  a nicely polished NITTO post. Wish I
> had greased that binder bolt, but didn't think/know to do that. The paste
> helped, but eventually a cheap(er) Kalloy UNO worked better. I think it
> still had slight grooves from the machining processes.
>
> Cheers!
> mark v.
>
> On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Still curious about a torque recommendation. Clearly mine is not tight
>> enough.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 8, 2024, at 5:54 PM, Jay  wrote:
>>
>> Forgot to mention, if I would have done what Bill mentions above, I
>> likely would have never had the original issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 5:52:57 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> I can't recall if I had started a thread or contributed to one when I
>>> had stripped the binder bolt on my Roadini, but as I recall, I went to a
>>> local nut/bolt store with the stripped one in hand.  I bought 4 new bolts
>>> with nuts (one set is in my seat bag ;-).  The original nut has some
>>> plastic or something within it (I can't recall the name?), and the store
>>> told me not to use that style (plus they didn't have it - so who knows
>>> which is better).  Anyhow, I used the new bolt and nut, blue thread lock on
>>> the bolt, and a bit of anti-seize compound on the post.  I put a bit of
>>> tape on the back of my post to check for slippage.  That was a few months
>>> ago and so far so good (and I've loosened the bolt once to drop the post a
>>> bit; a few weeks ago, and still good).
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 4:43:06 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Man, you all jinxed me. I’ve not experienced post slippage on either of
 my two Riv’s. Or so I thought. All the talk of greasing binder bolts caused
 me to double check. On my Clem the post had actually slipped incrementally
 over time. It was about 2cm low. The bolt was greased but I made sure it
 was more thorough on reassembly. My Gus was similarly greased but I cleaned
 / regreased anyway. Snugged it up nicely with a “T” handle wrench & went
 for a beautiful 12 mile singletrack ride. It was so good and so beautiful I
 decided to do a second lap. I hit a bump (one of many) and you’d have
 thought I had a dropper post! I always carry a multi tool - but not today.
 I took a shortcut back to car & called it a day.
 So.., what is the prevailing opinion on proper torque for these things?
 Mine was tight enough that cranking it any more would take some effort. I
 do not want to break a bolt as has happened to others here. Thanks in
 advance for your valued input.
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 4, 2024, at 7:14 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

 Just to close the loop, when I said in my Original Post that I
 disassembled 100% of the stuff that was assembled, the purpose of that step
 was to grease everything that needs grease, including the seat post bolt.
 The most important place for grease is between the head of the bolt and the
 lug itself.  On the threads is nice also.  Grease up that bolt, so you can
 easily snug it up.


 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA
 On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 7:41:42 AM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> >> busted <<
> Hi Dan - no, I did not grease the binder bolt when I built up the
> bike. Rivendell's instructions even called that out - grease the binder
> bolt.
> I'll do that today and give it a go. (i'll probably try to replace the
> bolt, as i probably went beyond the elastic stretch of the bolt)
>
> I joking said to my wife that I'm not used to new bikes, so I thought
> maybe everything was too clean.
> Also - here at work - when I've deal

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Richard Rose]

Thanks Mark.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 8, 2024, at 8:57 PM, Mark V  wrote:Hi R.M. - apologies for being the Monkey's Paw or open side down horseshoe ...  or Eeyore's rain cloud...I believe the seat binder bolts are 5mm. And 10N-m install torque is a good number -- here's chart giving guidelines for bolt size; fastener grade; and install torque.   https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metric-bolts-maximum-torque-d_2054.html -- I tried to read the grade stamped into my RoadUno bolt head, and I think it's a 12.9.  (my eyes ain't what they used to be and maybe never were)If you think you might have additional slippage issue, you can also schmear carbon paste around the seat tube. The little carbone bits add some interference. I've not noticed any more slipping after greasing the binder bolt and adding a bit of paste.   As mentioned previously, I have a GUNNAR CrossHairs that slipped when I used  a nicely polished NITTO post. Wish I had greased that binder bolt, but didn't think/know to do that. The paste helped, but eventually a cheap(er) Kalloy UNO worked better. I think it still had slight grooves from the machining processes. Cheers!mark v. On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:Still curious about a torque recommendation. Clearly mine is not tight enough.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 8, 2024, at 5:54 PM, Jay  wrote:Forgot to mention, if I would have done what Bill mentions above, I likely would have never had the original issue.On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 5:52:57 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:I can't recall if I had started a thread or contributed to one when I had stripped the binder bolt on my Roadini, but as I recall, I went to a local nut/bolt store with the stripped one in hand.  I bought 4 new bolts with nuts (one set is in my seat bag ;-).  The original nut has some plastic or something within it (I can't recall the name?), and the store told me not to use that style (plus they didn't have it - so who knows which is better).  Anyhow, I used the new bolt and nut, blue thread lock on the bolt, and a bit of anti-seize compound on the post.  I put a bit of tape on the back of my post to check for slippage.  That was a few months ago and so far so good (and I've loosened the bolt once to drop the post a bit; a few weeks ago, and still good).On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 4:43:06 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:Man, you all jinxed me. I’ve not experienced post slippage on either of my two Riv’s. Or so I thought. All the talk of greasing binder bolts caused me to double check. On my Clem the post had actually slipped incrementally over time. It was about 2cm low. The bolt was greased but I made sure it was more thorough on reassembly. My Gus was similarly greased but I cleaned / regreased anyway. Snugged it up nicely with a “T” handle wrench & went for a beautiful 12 mile singletrack ride. It was so good and so beautiful I decided to do a second lap. I hit a bump (one of many) and you’d have thought I had a dropper post! I always carry a multi tool - but not today. I took a shortcut back to car & called it a day.So.., what is the prevailing opinion on proper torque for these things? Mine was tight enough that cranking it any more would take some effort. I do not want to break a bolt as has happened to others here. Thanks in advance for your valued input.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 4, 2024, at 7:14 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:Just to close the loop, when I said in my Original Post that I disassembled 100% of the stuff that was assembled, the purpose of that step was to grease everything that needs grease, including the seat post bolt.  The most important place for grease is between the head of the bolt and the lug itself.  On the threads is nice also.  Grease up that bolt, so you can easily snug it up.  Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CAOn Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 7:41:42 AM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:>> busted <

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Mark V]

Hi R.M. - apologies for being the Monkey's Paw or open side down 
horseshoe ...  or Eeyore's rain cloud...

I believe the seat binder bolts are 5mm. And 10N-m install torque is a good 
number
 -- here's chart giving guidelines for bolt size; fastener grade; and 
install torque.   
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metric-bolts-maximum-torque-d_2054.html
 -- I tried to read the grade stamped into my RoadUno bolt head, and I 
think it's a 12.9.  (my eyes ain't what they used to be and maybe never 
were)

If you think you might have additional slippage issue, you can also schmear 
carbon paste around the seat tube. The little carbone bits add some 
interference. 
I've not noticed any more slipping after greasing the binder bolt and 
adding a bit of paste.   As mentioned previously, I have a GUNNAR 
CrossHairs that slipped when I used  a nicely polished NITTO post. Wish I 
had greased that binder bolt, but didn't think/know to do that. The paste 
helped, but eventually a cheap(er) Kalloy UNO worked better. I think it 
still had slight grooves from the machining processes. 

Cheers!
mark v. 

On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 6:45:45 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Still curious about a torque recommendation. Clearly mine is not tight 
> enough.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 8, 2024, at 5:54 PM, Jay  wrote:
>
> Forgot to mention, if I would have done what Bill mentions above, I 
> likely would have never had the original issue.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 5:52:57 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:
>
>> I can't recall if I had started a thread or contributed to one when I had 
>> stripped the binder bolt on my Roadini, but as I recall, I went to a local 
>> nut/bolt store with the stripped one in hand.  I bought 4 new bolts with 
>> nuts (one set is in my seat bag ;-).  The original nut has some plastic or 
>> something within it (I can't recall the name?), and the store told me not 
>> to use that style (plus they didn't have it - so who knows which is 
>> better).  Anyhow, I used the new bolt and nut, blue thread lock on the 
>> bolt, and a bit of anti-seize compound on the post.  I put a bit of tape on 
>> the back of my post to check for slippage.  That was a few months ago and 
>> so far so good (and I've loosened the bolt once to drop the post a bit; a 
>> few weeks ago, and still good).
>>
>> On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 4:43:06 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Man, you all jinxed me. I’ve not experienced post slippage on either of 
>>> my two Riv’s. Or so I thought. All the talk of greasing binder bolts caused 
>>> me to double check. On my Clem the post had actually slipped incrementally 
>>> over time. It was about 2cm low. The bolt was greased but I made sure it 
>>> was more thorough on reassembly. My Gus was similarly greased but I cleaned 
>>> / regreased anyway. Snugged it up nicely with a “T” handle wrench & went 
>>> for a beautiful 12 mile singletrack ride. It was so good and so beautiful I 
>>> decided to do a second lap. I hit a bump (one of many) and you’d have 
>>> thought I had a dropper post! I always carry a multi tool - but not today. 
>>> I took a shortcut back to car & called it a day.
>>> So.., what is the prevailing opinion on proper torque for these things? 
>>> Mine was tight enough that cranking it any more would take some effort. I 
>>> do not want to break a bolt as has happened to others here. Thanks in 
>>> advance for your valued input.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2024, at 7:14 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
>>> Just to close the loop, when I said in my Original Post that I 
>>> disassembled 100% of the stuff that was assembled, the purpose of that step 
>>> was to grease everything that needs grease, including the seat post bolt. 
>>>  The most important place for grease is between the head of the bolt and 
>>> the lug itself.  On the threads is nice also.  Grease up that bolt, so you 
>>> can easily snug it up.  
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 7:41:42 AM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 >> busted <<
 Hi Dan - no, I did not grease the binder bolt when I built up the bike. 
 Rivendell's instructions even called that out - grease the binder bolt. 
 I'll do that today and give it a go. (i'll probably try to replace the 
 bolt, as i probably went beyond the elastic stretch of the bolt)

 I joking said to my wife that I'm not used to new bikes, so I thought 
 maybe everything was too clean. 
 Also - here at work - when I've dealt with fasteners we don't grease 
 them. The allowed finishing / plating probably has some lubricating 
 properties in a more controlled fashion. 

 Thanks for the input / feedback / reminder / dope slap!
 Happy Trails


 On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 6:50:23 AM UTC-4 Dan wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Have you checked that the seatpost binder bolt is greased?
> On my new Appaloo

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Richard Rose]

Still curious about a torque recommendation. Clearly mine is not tight enough.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 8, 2024, at 5:54 PM, Jay  wrote:Forgot to mention, if I would have done what Bill mentions above, I likely would have never had the original issue.On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 5:52:57 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:I can't recall if I had started a thread or contributed to one when I had stripped the binder bolt on my Roadini, but as I recall, I went to a local nut/bolt store with the stripped one in hand.  I bought 4 new bolts with nuts (one set is in my seat bag ;-).  The original nut has some plastic or something within it (I can't recall the name?), and the store told me not to use that style (plus they didn't have it - so who knows which is better).  Anyhow, I used the new bolt and nut, blue thread lock on the bolt, and a bit of anti-seize compound on the post.  I put a bit of tape on the back of my post to check for slippage.  That was a few months ago and so far so good (and I've loosened the bolt once to drop the post a bit; a few weeks ago, and still good).On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 4:43:06 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:Man, you all jinxed me. I’ve not experienced post slippage on either of my two Riv’s. Or so I thought. All the talk of greasing binder bolts caused me to double check. On my Clem the post had actually slipped incrementally over time. It was about 2cm low. The bolt was greased but I made sure it was more thorough on reassembly. My Gus was similarly greased but I cleaned / regreased anyway. Snugged it up nicely with a “T” handle wrench & went for a beautiful 12 mile singletrack ride. It was so good and so beautiful I decided to do a second lap. I hit a bump (one of many) and you’d have thought I had a dropper post! I always carry a multi tool - but not today. I took a shortcut back to car & called it a day.So.., what is the prevailing opinion on proper torque for these things? Mine was tight enough that cranking it any more would take some effort. I do not want to break a bolt as has happened to others here. Thanks in advance for your valued input.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 4, 2024, at 7:14 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:Just to close the loop, when I said in my Original Post that I disassembled 100% of the stuff that was assembled, the purpose of that step was to grease everything that needs grease, including the seat post bolt.  The most important place for grease is between the head of the bolt and the lug itself.  On the threads is nice also.  Grease up that bolt, so you can easily snug it up.  Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CAOn Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 7:41:42 AM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:>> busted <

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Jay]

Forgot to mention, if I would have done what Bill mentions above, I likely 
would have never had the original issue.

On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 5:52:57 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:

> I can't recall if I had started a thread or contributed to one when I had 
> stripped the binder bolt on my Roadini, but as I recall, I went to a local 
> nut/bolt store with the stripped one in hand.  I bought 4 new bolts with 
> nuts (one set is in my seat bag ;-).  The original nut has some plastic or 
> something within it (I can't recall the name?), and the store told me not 
> to use that style (plus they didn't have it - so who knows which is 
> better).  Anyhow, I used the new bolt and nut, blue thread lock on the 
> bolt, and a bit of anti-seize compound on the post.  I put a bit of tape on 
> the back of my post to check for slippage.  That was a few months ago and 
> so far so good (and I've loosened the bolt once to drop the post a bit; a 
> few weeks ago, and still good).
>
> On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 4:43:06 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Man, you all jinxed me. I’ve not experienced post slippage on either of 
>> my two Riv’s. Or so I thought. All the talk of greasing binder bolts caused 
>> me to double check. On my Clem the post had actually slipped incrementally 
>> over time. It was about 2cm low. The bolt was greased but I made sure it 
>> was more thorough on reassembly. My Gus was similarly greased but I cleaned 
>> / regreased anyway. Snugged it up nicely with a “T” handle wrench & went 
>> for a beautiful 12 mile singletrack ride. It was so good and so beautiful I 
>> decided to do a second lap. I hit a bump (one of many) and you’d have 
>> thought I had a dropper post! I always carry a multi tool - but not today. 
>> I took a shortcut back to car & called it a day.
>> So.., what is the prevailing opinion on proper torque for these things? 
>> Mine was tight enough that cranking it any more would take some effort. I 
>> do not want to break a bolt as has happened to others here. Thanks in 
>> advance for your valued input.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2024, at 7:14 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>> Just to close the loop, when I said in my Original Post that I 
>> disassembled 100% of the stuff that was assembled, the purpose of that step 
>> was to grease everything that needs grease, including the seat post bolt. 
>>  The most important place for grease is between the head of the bolt and 
>> the lug itself.  On the threads is nice also.  Grease up that bolt, so you 
>> can easily snug it up.  
>>
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 7:41:42 AM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> >> busted <<
>>> Hi Dan - no, I did not grease the binder bolt when I built up the bike. 
>>> Rivendell's instructions even called that out - grease the binder bolt. 
>>> I'll do that today and give it a go. (i'll probably try to replace the 
>>> bolt, as i probably went beyond the elastic stretch of the bolt)
>>>
>>> I joking said to my wife that I'm not used to new bikes, so I thought 
>>> maybe everything was too clean. 
>>> Also - here at work - when I've dealt with fasteners we don't grease 
>>> them. The allowed finishing / plating probably has some lubricating 
>>> properties in a more controlled fashion. 
>>>
>>> Thanks for the input / feedback / reminder / dope slap!
>>> Happy Trails
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 6:50:23 AM UTC-4 Dan wrote:
>>>
 Mark,

 Have you checked that the seatpost binder bolt is greased?
 On my new Appaloosa, it wasn’t. I was having slipping issues until one 
 day I tried to tighten it too hard and the bolt snapped. 
 A new bolt, well-greased, and I never had a problem again. Didn’t need 
 to tighten much either! All this with the stock kalloy seatpost. 
 On Monday 2 September 2024 at 11:04:42 UTC+9:30 mvie...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> hi Bill
> I see you're using a NITTO S83 seatpost. 
> Any issues with the post slipping? Or do you 'feel' you're cranking on 
> the seat binder bolt much more than the Rivendell recommended 10N-m ? 
>
> I'm asking as my stock-build Kalloy post slips. I don't know the 
> amount of torque I'm applying to the seat binder bolt, but I'm certain 
> I'm 
> apply much more than the 10N-m. I've added a bit of carbon paste to to 
> the 
> seattube. Still slipped a bit. 
> I've gone a head and ordered a NITTO S65. In the past I've had 
> something very similar to the stock-build (single clamp) Kalloy before 
> and 
> I'm not a fan of of how the seat-rail clamp mates up with the top of the 
> post. 
>
> I need to post some updates to my thread. I did an 80 miler to Detroit 
> yesterday, and a shorter dirt road ride today. 
> Thanks. 
> Mark
> On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 3:15:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I had a few self-imposed procedural responsibil

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Jay]

I can't recall if I had started a thread or contributed to one when I had 
stripped the binder bolt on my Roadini, but as I recall, I went to a local 
nut/bolt store with the stripped one in hand.  I bought 4 new bolts with 
nuts (one set is in my seat bag ;-).  The original nut has some plastic or 
something within it (I can't recall the name?), and the store told me not 
to use that style (plus they didn't have it - so who knows which is 
better).  Anyhow, I used the new bolt and nut, blue thread lock on the 
bolt, and a bit of anti-seize compound on the post.  I put a bit of tape on 
the back of my post to check for slippage.  That was a few months ago and 
so far so good (and I've loosened the bolt once to drop the post a bit; a 
few weeks ago, and still good).

On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 4:43:06 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Man, you all jinxed me. I’ve not experienced post slippage on either of my 
> two Riv’s. Or so I thought. All the talk of greasing binder bolts caused me 
> to double check. On my Clem the post had actually slipped incrementally 
> over time. It was about 2cm low. The bolt was greased but I made sure it 
> was more thorough on reassembly. My Gus was similarly greased but I cleaned 
> / regreased anyway. Snugged it up nicely with a “T” handle wrench & went 
> for a beautiful 12 mile singletrack ride. It was so good and so beautiful I 
> decided to do a second lap. I hit a bump (one of many) and you’d have 
> thought I had a dropper post! I always carry a multi tool - but not today. 
> I took a shortcut back to car & called it a day.
> So.., what is the prevailing opinion on proper torque for these things? 
> Mine was tight enough that cranking it any more would take some effort. I 
> do not want to break a bolt as has happened to others here. Thanks in 
> advance for your valued input.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 4, 2024, at 7:14 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
> Just to close the loop, when I said in my Original Post that I 
> disassembled 100% of the stuff that was assembled, the purpose of that step 
> was to grease everything that needs grease, including the seat post bolt. 
>  The most important place for grease is between the head of the bolt and 
> the lug itself.  On the threads is nice also.  Grease up that bolt, so you 
> can easily snug it up.  
>
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 7:41:42 AM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> >> busted <<
>> Hi Dan - no, I did not grease the binder bolt when I built up the bike. 
>> Rivendell's instructions even called that out - grease the binder bolt. 
>> I'll do that today and give it a go. (i'll probably try to replace the 
>> bolt, as i probably went beyond the elastic stretch of the bolt)
>>
>> I joking said to my wife that I'm not used to new bikes, so I thought 
>> maybe everything was too clean. 
>> Also - here at work - when I've dealt with fasteners we don't grease 
>> them. The allowed finishing / plating probably has some lubricating 
>> properties in a more controlled fashion. 
>>
>> Thanks for the input / feedback / reminder / dope slap!
>> Happy Trails
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 6:50:23 AM UTC-4 Dan wrote:
>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> Have you checked that the seatpost binder bolt is greased?
>>> On my new Appaloosa, it wasn’t. I was having slipping issues until one 
>>> day I tried to tighten it too hard and the bolt snapped. 
>>> A new bolt, well-greased, and I never had a problem again. Didn’t need 
>>> to tighten much either! All this with the stock kalloy seatpost. 
>>> On Monday 2 September 2024 at 11:04:42 UTC+9:30 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 hi Bill
 I see you're using a NITTO S83 seatpost. 
 Any issues with the post slipping? Or do you 'feel' you're cranking on 
 the seat binder bolt much more than the Rivendell recommended 10N-m ? 

 I'm asking as my stock-build Kalloy post slips. I don't know the amount 
 of torque I'm applying to the seat binder bolt, but I'm certain I'm apply 
 much more than the 10N-m. I've added a bit of carbon paste to to the 
 seattube. Still slipped a bit. 
 I've gone a head and ordered a NITTO S65. In the past I've had 
 something very similar to the stock-build (single clamp) Kalloy before and 
 I'm not a fan of of how the seat-rail clamp mates up with the top of the 
 post. 

 I need to post some updates to my thread. I did an 80 miler to Detroit 
 yesterday, and a shorter dirt road ride today. 
 Thanks. 
 Mark
 On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 3:15:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I had a few self-imposed procedural responsibilities in my stable that 
> delayed my first ride on my 7of9with10on5 RoadUno.  I had planned on 
> doing 
> my September Diablo Summit, but stayed up a little late last night and 
> slept in a little long this morning.  So instead I did my very standard 
> Grizzly Peak route.  Executive sum

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Richard Rose]

Man, you all jinxed me. I’ve not experienced post slippage on either of my two Riv’s. Or so I thought. All the talk of greasing binder bolts caused me to double check. On my Clem the post had actually slipped incrementally over time. It was about 2cm low. The bolt was greased but I made sure it was more thorough on reassembly. My Gus was similarly greased but I cleaned / regreased anyway. Snugged it up nicely with a “T” handle wrench & went for a beautiful 12 mile singletrack ride. It was so good and so beautiful I decided to do a second lap. I hit a bump (one of many) and you’d have thought I had a dropper post! I always carry a multi tool - but not today. I took a shortcut back to car & called it a day.So.., what is the prevailing opinion on proper torque for these things? Mine was tight enough that cranking it any more would take some effort. I do not want to break a bolt as has happened to others here. Thanks in advance for your valued input.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 4, 2024, at 7:14 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:Just to close the loop, when I said in my Original Post that I disassembled 100% of the stuff that was assembled, the purpose of that step was to grease everything that needs grease, including the seat post bolt.  The most important place for grease is between the head of the bolt and the lug itself.  On the threads is nice also.  Grease up that bolt, so you can easily snug it up.  Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CAOn Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 7:41:42 AM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:>> busted <

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Bill Lindsay]

Just to close the loop, when I said in my Original Post that I disassembled 
100% of the stuff that was assembled, the purpose of that step was to 
grease everything that needs grease, including the seat post bolt.  The 
most important place for grease is between the head of the bolt and the lug 
itself.  On the threads is nice also.  Grease up that bolt, so you can 
easily snug it up.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA
On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 7:41:42 AM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:

> >> busted <<
> Hi Dan - no, I did not grease the binder bolt when I built up the bike. 
> Rivendell's instructions even called that out - grease the binder bolt. 
> I'll do that today and give it a go. (i'll probably try to replace the 
> bolt, as i probably went beyond the elastic stretch of the bolt)
>
> I joking said to my wife that I'm not used to new bikes, so I thought 
> maybe everything was too clean. 
> Also - here at work - when I've dealt with fasteners we don't grease them. 
> The allowed finishing / plating probably has some lubricating properties in 
> a more controlled fashion. 
>
> Thanks for the input / feedback / reminder / dope slap!
> Happy Trails
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 6:50:23 AM UTC-4 Dan wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Have you checked that the seatpost binder bolt is greased?
>> On my new Appaloosa, it wasn’t. I was having slipping issues until one 
>> day I tried to tighten it too hard and the bolt snapped. 
>> A new bolt, well-greased, and I never had a problem again. Didn’t need to 
>> tighten much either! All this with the stock kalloy seatpost. 
>> On Monday 2 September 2024 at 11:04:42 UTC+9:30 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> hi Bill
>>> I see you're using a NITTO S83 seatpost. 
>>> Any issues with the post slipping? Or do you 'feel' you're cranking on 
>>> the seat binder bolt much more than the Rivendell recommended 10N-m ? 
>>>
>>> I'm asking as my stock-build Kalloy post slips. I don't know the amount 
>>> of torque I'm applying to the seat binder bolt, but I'm certain I'm apply 
>>> much more than the 10N-m. I've added a bit of carbon paste to to the 
>>> seattube. Still slipped a bit. 
>>> I've gone a head and ordered a NITTO S65. In the past I've had something 
>>> very similar to the stock-build (single clamp) Kalloy before and I'm not a 
>>> fan of of how the seat-rail clamp mates up with the top of the post. 
>>>
>>> I need to post some updates to my thread. I did an 80 miler to Detroit 
>>> yesterday, and a shorter dirt road ride today. 
>>> Thanks. 
>>> Mark
>>> On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 3:15:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I had a few self-imposed procedural responsibilities in my stable that 
 delayed my first ride on my 7of9with10on5 RoadUno.  I had planned on doing 
 my September Diablo Summit, but stayed up a little late last night and 
 slept in a little long this morning.  So instead I did my very standard 
 Grizzly Peak route.  Executive summary: 23 miles, 2500 feet of climbing, 
 splendid bike.  Zero tweaks needed or planned.  Perfect weather.  

 tl/dr

 Even though the bike has my 7of9with10on5 drivetrain, I decided to use 
 it as its core design intended, as a two-speed.  I left the chain on the 
 18 
 cog in back and didn't touch my seat tube mounted Rear shifter.  On the 23 
 mile ride I shifted exactly twice.  I started in "low" (26x18) and road 
 out 
 to the of Grizzly Peak.  One roadie passed me on the climb.  He was 
 probably 30 pounds lighter than me and he was on a ~$10k Parlee.  He 
 passed 
 me, but he had to work to do it.  At the top of Grizzly I stopped to take 
 a 
 photo:


 https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964112524/in/album-72177720319657823

 I left it in "low" as I coasted down the steep descent to Fish Ranch 
 Road (max speed 32.2mph). Then I finished the second climb to the end of 
 Grizzly Peak.  When I turned right onto Skyline/Old Tunnel, I shifted into 
 "high" (38x18) and descended into Berkeley.  I stopped at Domingo Peet's 
 and waited in the long line at Fournee Bakery.  There were lots of 
 students 
 out along the high-side of the UC Berkeley campus.  I think it's rush 
 weekend for the greek organizations.  I continued to North Berkeley and 
 shifted back into "low" to climb up Arlington Ave to home.  

 The bike was a delight.  It's definitely an upright road bike, and it's 
 exceedingly easy to ride.  I rode gloveless and the texture of my Vans 
 grips and the roughness of shellacked Newbaums on the forward curves of 
 the 
 stock Choco bars make me think I'll probably run thin gloves In the 
 future. 
  My 700x35 Gravel Kings were kind of skinny for the lousy pavement on the 
 Old Tunnel Road descent.  Maybe I'll swap on the 700x43s that are on the 
 stock wheels, or maybe I'll just swap over to the stock wheels wholesale

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Mark V]

>> busted <<
Hi Dan - no, I did not grease the binder bolt when I built up the bike. 
Rivendell's instructions even called that out - grease the binder bolt. 
I'll do that today and give it a go. (i'll probably try to replace the 
bolt, as i probably went beyond the elastic stretch of the bolt)

I joking said to my wife that I'm not used to new bikes, so I thought maybe 
everything was too clean. 
Also - here at work - when I've dealt with fasteners we don't grease them. 
The allowed finishing / plating probably has some lubricating properties in 
a more controlled fashion. 

Thanks for the input / feedback / reminder / dope slap!
Happy Trails


On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 6:50:23 AM UTC-4 Dan wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Have you checked that the seatpost binder bolt is greased?
> On my new Appaloosa, it wasn’t. I was having slipping issues until one day 
> I tried to tighten it too hard and the bolt snapped. 
> A new bolt, well-greased, and I never had a problem again. Didn’t need to 
> tighten much either! All this with the stock kalloy seatpost. 
> On Monday 2 September 2024 at 11:04:42 UTC+9:30 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> hi Bill
>> I see you're using a NITTO S83 seatpost. 
>> Any issues with the post slipping? Or do you 'feel' you're cranking on 
>> the seat binder bolt much more than the Rivendell recommended 10N-m ? 
>>
>> I'm asking as my stock-build Kalloy post slips. I don't know the amount 
>> of torque I'm applying to the seat binder bolt, but I'm certain I'm apply 
>> much more than the 10N-m. I've added a bit of carbon paste to to the 
>> seattube. Still slipped a bit. 
>> I've gone a head and ordered a NITTO S65. In the past I've had something 
>> very similar to the stock-build (single clamp) Kalloy before and I'm not a 
>> fan of of how the seat-rail clamp mates up with the top of the post. 
>>
>> I need to post some updates to my thread. I did an 80 miler to Detroit 
>> yesterday, and a shorter dirt road ride today. 
>> Thanks. 
>> Mark
>> On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 3:15:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I had a few self-imposed procedural responsibilities in my stable that 
>>> delayed my first ride on my 7of9with10on5 RoadUno.  I had planned on doing 
>>> my September Diablo Summit, but stayed up a little late last night and 
>>> slept in a little long this morning.  So instead I did my very standard 
>>> Grizzly Peak route.  Executive summary: 23 miles, 2500 feet of climbing, 
>>> splendid bike.  Zero tweaks needed or planned.  Perfect weather.  
>>>
>>> tl/dr
>>>
>>> Even though the bike has my 7of9with10on5 drivetrain, I decided to use 
>>> it as its core design intended, as a two-speed.  I left the chain on the 18 
>>> cog in back and didn't touch my seat tube mounted Rear shifter.  On the 23 
>>> mile ride I shifted exactly twice.  I started in "low" (26x18) and road out 
>>> to the of Grizzly Peak.  One roadie passed me on the climb.  He was 
>>> probably 30 pounds lighter than me and he was on a ~$10k Parlee.  He passed 
>>> me, but he had to work to do it.  At the top of Grizzly I stopped to take a 
>>> photo:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964112524/in/album-72177720319657823
>>>
>>> I left it in "low" as I coasted down the steep descent to Fish Ranch 
>>> Road (max speed 32.2mph). Then I finished the second climb to the end of 
>>> Grizzly Peak.  When I turned right onto Skyline/Old Tunnel, I shifted into 
>>> "high" (38x18) and descended into Berkeley.  I stopped at Domingo Peet's 
>>> and waited in the long line at Fournee Bakery.  There were lots of students 
>>> out along the high-side of the UC Berkeley campus.  I think it's rush 
>>> weekend for the greek organizations.  I continued to North Berkeley and 
>>> shifted back into "low" to climb up Arlington Ave to home.  
>>>
>>> The bike was a delight.  It's definitely an upright road bike, and it's 
>>> exceedingly easy to ride.  I rode gloveless and the texture of my Vans 
>>> grips and the roughness of shellacked Newbaums on the forward curves of the 
>>> stock Choco bars make me think I'll probably run thin gloves In the future. 
>>>  My 700x35 Gravel Kings were kind of skinny for the lousy pavement on the 
>>> Old Tunnel Road descent.  Maybe I'll swap on the 700x43s that are on the 
>>> stock wheels, or maybe I'll just swap over to the stock wheels wholesale.  
>>>
>>> There are some loud complainers lamenting what the RoadUno became, 
>>> because I think they wanted something more like a single speed Hunqapillar. 
>>>  My enthusiasm for this bike was based on the idea that there's never been 
>>> a bike quite like this, and I was eager to just let it be what it is and 
>>> enjoy it for that.  I'm definitely all-in on that idea now.  With its long 
>>> wheelbase and comparatively slack head angle it is indeed very smooth and 
>>> stable as a road bike.  With a nice long front center, there's not even a 
>>> threat of TCO.  I think this is going to make a really good S24O and 
>>> t

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Dan]

Mark,

Have you checked that the seatpost binder bolt is greased?
On my new Appaloosa, it wasn’t. I was having slipping issues until one day 
I tried to tighten it too hard and the bolt snapped. 
A new bolt, well-greased, and I never had a problem again. Didn’t need to 
tighten much either! All this with the stock kalloy seatpost. 
On Monday 2 September 2024 at 11:04:42 UTC+9:30 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:

> hi Bill
> I see you're using a NITTO S83 seatpost. 
> Any issues with the post slipping? Or do you 'feel' you're cranking on the 
> seat binder bolt much more than the Rivendell recommended 10N-m ? 
>
> I'm asking as my stock-build Kalloy post slips. I don't know the amount of 
> torque I'm applying to the seat binder bolt, but I'm certain I'm apply much 
> more than the 10N-m. I've added a bit of carbon paste to to the seattube. 
> Still slipped a bit. 
> I've gone a head and ordered a NITTO S65. In the past I've had something 
> very similar to the stock-build (single clamp) Kalloy before and I'm not a 
> fan of of how the seat-rail clamp mates up with the top of the post. 
>
> I need to post some updates to my thread. I did an 80 miler to Detroit 
> yesterday, and a shorter dirt road ride today. 
> Thanks. 
> Mark
> On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 3:15:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I had a few self-imposed procedural responsibilities in my stable that 
>> delayed my first ride on my 7of9with10on5 RoadUno.  I had planned on doing 
>> my September Diablo Summit, but stayed up a little late last night and 
>> slept in a little long this morning.  So instead I did my very standard 
>> Grizzly Peak route.  Executive summary: 23 miles, 2500 feet of climbing, 
>> splendid bike.  Zero tweaks needed or planned.  Perfect weather.  
>>
>> tl/dr
>>
>> Even though the bike has my 7of9with10on5 drivetrain, I decided to use it 
>> as its core design intended, as a two-speed.  I left the chain on the 18 
>> cog in back and didn't touch my seat tube mounted Rear shifter.  On the 23 
>> mile ride I shifted exactly twice.  I started in "low" (26x18) and road out 
>> to the of Grizzly Peak.  One roadie passed me on the climb.  He was 
>> probably 30 pounds lighter than me and he was on a ~$10k Parlee.  He passed 
>> me, but he had to work to do it.  At the top of Grizzly I stopped to take a 
>> photo:
>>
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964112524/in/album-72177720319657823
>>
>> I left it in "low" as I coasted down the steep descent to Fish Ranch Road 
>> (max speed 32.2mph). Then I finished the second climb to the end of Grizzly 
>> Peak.  When I turned right onto Skyline/Old Tunnel, I shifted into "high" 
>> (38x18) and descended into Berkeley.  I stopped at Domingo Peet's and 
>> waited in the long line at Fournee Bakery.  There were lots of students out 
>> along the high-side of the UC Berkeley campus.  I think it's rush weekend 
>> for the greek organizations.  I continued to North Berkeley and shifted 
>> back into "low" to climb up Arlington Ave to home.  
>>
>> The bike was a delight.  It's definitely an upright road bike, and it's 
>> exceedingly easy to ride.  I rode gloveless and the texture of my Vans 
>> grips and the roughness of shellacked Newbaums on the forward curves of the 
>> stock Choco bars make me think I'll probably run thin gloves In the future. 
>>  My 700x35 Gravel Kings were kind of skinny for the lousy pavement on the 
>> Old Tunnel Road descent.  Maybe I'll swap on the 700x43s that are on the 
>> stock wheels, or maybe I'll just swap over to the stock wheels wholesale.  
>>
>> There are some loud complainers lamenting what the RoadUno became, 
>> because I think they wanted something more like a single speed Hunqapillar. 
>>  My enthusiasm for this bike was based on the idea that there's never been 
>> a bike quite like this, and I was eager to just let it be what it is and 
>> enjoy it for that.  I'm definitely all-in on that idea now.  With its long 
>> wheelbase and comparatively slack head angle it is indeed very smooth and 
>> stable as a road bike.  With a nice long front center, there's not even a 
>> threat of TCO.  I think this is going to make a really good S24O and 
>> touring bike.  
>>
>> Also of note, it was new shoes day.  I haven't been riding flats much, 
>> and so I don't have a proper set of Adidas Sambas or the equivalent.  My 
>> wife didn't like the colors that Zappos had for Sambas, so we substituted 
>> Puma Palermos.  I liked them very much for the first ride out.  Pics prove 
>> that:
>>
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964034033/in/album-72177720316423417
>>
>> I'm super pleased with my new build and look forward to establishing its 
>> place in my stable.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 5:31:59 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> An old derailleur has a lot of things going for it.  Just note that the 
>>> drive side chainstay is totally unprotected.  That's why I wrapped it in 
>>> Newbau

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Bill Lindsay]

Mark

I am having no issues with the seat post slipping. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 6:34:42 PM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:

> hi Bill
> I see you're using a NITTO S83 seatpost. 
> Any issues with the post slipping? Or do you 'feel' you're cranking on the 
> seat binder bolt much more than the Rivendell recommended 10N-m ? 
>
> I'm asking as my stock-build Kalloy post slips. I don't know the amount of 
> torque I'm applying to the seat binder bolt, but I'm certain I'm apply much 
> more than the 10N-m. I've added a bit of carbon paste to to the seattube. 
> Still slipped a bit. 
> I've gone a head and ordered a NITTO S65. In the past I've had something 
> very similar to the stock-build (single clamp) Kalloy before and I'm not a 
> fan of of how the seat-rail clamp mates up with the top of the post. 
>
> I need to post some updates to my thread. I did an 80 miler to Detroit 
> yesterday, and a shorter dirt road ride today. 
> Thanks. 
> Mark
> On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 3:15:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I had a few self-imposed procedural responsibilities in my stable that 
>> delayed my first ride on my 7of9with10on5 RoadUno.  I had planned on doing 
>> my September Diablo Summit, but stayed up a little late last night and 
>> slept in a little long this morning.  So instead I did my very standard 
>> Grizzly Peak route.  Executive summary: 23 miles, 2500 feet of climbing, 
>> splendid bike.  Zero tweaks needed or planned.  Perfect weather.  
>>
>> tl/dr
>>
>> Even though the bike has my 7of9with10on5 drivetrain, I decided to use it 
>> as its core design intended, as a two-speed.  I left the chain on the 18 
>> cog in back and didn't touch my seat tube mounted Rear shifter.  On the 23 
>> mile ride I shifted exactly twice.  I started in "low" (26x18) and road out 
>> to the of Grizzly Peak.  One roadie passed me on the climb.  He was 
>> probably 30 pounds lighter than me and he was on a ~$10k Parlee.  He passed 
>> me, but he had to work to do it.  At the top of Grizzly I stopped to take a 
>> photo:
>>
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964112524/in/album-72177720319657823
>>
>> I left it in "low" as I coasted down the steep descent to Fish Ranch Road 
>> (max speed 32.2mph). Then I finished the second climb to the end of Grizzly 
>> Peak.  When I turned right onto Skyline/Old Tunnel, I shifted into "high" 
>> (38x18) and descended into Berkeley.  I stopped at Domingo Peet's and 
>> waited in the long line at Fournee Bakery.  There were lots of students out 
>> along the high-side of the UC Berkeley campus.  I think it's rush weekend 
>> for the greek organizations.  I continued to North Berkeley and shifted 
>> back into "low" to climb up Arlington Ave to home.  
>>
>> The bike was a delight.  It's definitely an upright road bike, and it's 
>> exceedingly easy to ride.  I rode gloveless and the texture of my Vans 
>> grips and the roughness of shellacked Newbaums on the forward curves of the 
>> stock Choco bars make me think I'll probably run thin gloves In the future. 
>>  My 700x35 Gravel Kings were kind of skinny for the lousy pavement on the 
>> Old Tunnel Road descent.  Maybe I'll swap on the 700x43s that are on the 
>> stock wheels, or maybe I'll just swap over to the stock wheels wholesale.  
>>
>> There are some loud complainers lamenting what the RoadUno became, 
>> because I think they wanted something more like a single speed Hunqapillar. 
>>  My enthusiasm for this bike was based on the idea that there's never been 
>> a bike quite like this, and I was eager to just let it be what it is and 
>> enjoy it for that.  I'm definitely all-in on that idea now.  With its long 
>> wheelbase and comparatively slack head angle it is indeed very smooth and 
>> stable as a road bike.  With a nice long front center, there's not even a 
>> threat of TCO.  I think this is going to make a really good S24O and 
>> touring bike.  
>>
>> Also of note, it was new shoes day.  I haven't been riding flats much, 
>> and so I don't have a proper set of Adidas Sambas or the equivalent.  My 
>> wife didn't like the colors that Zappos had for Sambas, so we substituted 
>> Puma Palermos.  I liked them very much for the first ride out.  Pics prove 
>> that:
>>
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964034033/in/album-72177720316423417
>>
>> I'm super pleased with my new build and look forward to establishing its 
>> place in my stable.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 5:31:59 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> An old derailleur has a lot of things going for it.  Just note that the 
>>> drive side chainstay is totally unprotected.  That's why I wrapped it in 
>>> Newbaums.  A purpose built tensioner tends to have a stronger spring, and a 
>>> clutch RD would also have slap-preventing features.  It's a road bike, and 
>>> that's why I've chosen a rear derailleur and good chainstay slap 
>>> protection.  
>>>
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Mark V]

hi Bill
I see you're using a NITTO S83 seatpost. 
Any issues with the post slipping? Or do you 'feel' you're cranking on the 
seat binder bolt much more than the Rivendell recommended 10N-m ? 

I'm asking as my stock-build Kalloy post slips. I don't know the amount of 
torque I'm applying to the seat binder bolt, but I'm certain I'm apply much 
more than the 10N-m. I've added a bit of carbon paste to to the seattube. 
Still slipped a bit. 
I've gone a head and ordered a NITTO S65. In the past I've had something 
very similar to the stock-build (single clamp) Kalloy before and I'm not a 
fan of of how the seat-rail clamp mates up with the top of the post. 

I need to post some updates to my thread. I did an 80 miler to Detroit 
yesterday, and a shorter dirt road ride today. 
Thanks. 
Mark
On Sunday, September 1, 2024 at 3:15:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I had a few self-imposed procedural responsibilities in my stable that 
> delayed my first ride on my 7of9with10on5 RoadUno.  I had planned on doing 
> my September Diablo Summit, but stayed up a little late last night and 
> slept in a little long this morning.  So instead I did my very standard 
> Grizzly Peak route.  Executive summary: 23 miles, 2500 feet of climbing, 
> splendid bike.  Zero tweaks needed or planned.  Perfect weather.  
>
> tl/dr
>
> Even though the bike has my 7of9with10on5 drivetrain, I decided to use it 
> as its core design intended, as a two-speed.  I left the chain on the 18 
> cog in back and didn't touch my seat tube mounted Rear shifter.  On the 23 
> mile ride I shifted exactly twice.  I started in "low" (26x18) and road out 
> to the of Grizzly Peak.  One roadie passed me on the climb.  He was 
> probably 30 pounds lighter than me and he was on a ~$10k Parlee.  He passed 
> me, but he had to work to do it.  At the top of Grizzly I stopped to take a 
> photo:
>
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964112524/in/album-72177720319657823
>
> I left it in "low" as I coasted down the steep descent to Fish Ranch Road 
> (max speed 32.2mph). Then I finished the second climb to the end of Grizzly 
> Peak.  When I turned right onto Skyline/Old Tunnel, I shifted into "high" 
> (38x18) and descended into Berkeley.  I stopped at Domingo Peet's and 
> waited in the long line at Fournee Bakery.  There were lots of students out 
> along the high-side of the UC Berkeley campus.  I think it's rush weekend 
> for the greek organizations.  I continued to North Berkeley and shifted 
> back into "low" to climb up Arlington Ave to home.  
>
> The bike was a delight.  It's definitely an upright road bike, and it's 
> exceedingly easy to ride.  I rode gloveless and the texture of my Vans 
> grips and the roughness of shellacked Newbaums on the forward curves of the 
> stock Choco bars make me think I'll probably run thin gloves In the future. 
>  My 700x35 Gravel Kings were kind of skinny for the lousy pavement on the 
> Old Tunnel Road descent.  Maybe I'll swap on the 700x43s that are on the 
> stock wheels, or maybe I'll just swap over to the stock wheels wholesale.  
>
> There are some loud complainers lamenting what the RoadUno became, because 
> I think they wanted something more like a single speed Hunqapillar.  My 
> enthusiasm for this bike was based on the idea that there's never been a 
> bike quite like this, and I was eager to just let it be what it is and 
> enjoy it for that.  I'm definitely all-in on that idea now.  With its long 
> wheelbase and comparatively slack head angle it is indeed very smooth and 
> stable as a road bike.  With a nice long front center, there's not even a 
> threat of TCO.  I think this is going to make a really good S24O and 
> touring bike.  
>
> Also of note, it was new shoes day.  I haven't been riding flats much, and 
> so I don't have a proper set of Adidas Sambas or the equivalent.  My wife 
> didn't like the colors that Zappos had for Sambas, so we substituted Puma 
> Palermos.  I liked them very much for the first ride out.  Pics prove that:
>
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964034033/in/album-72177720316423417
>
> I'm super pleased with my new build and look forward to establishing its 
> place in my stable.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 5:31:59 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> An old derailleur has a lot of things going for it.  Just note that the 
>> drive side chainstay is totally unprotected.  That's why I wrapped it in 
>> Newbaums.  A purpose built tensioner tends to have a stronger spring, and a 
>> clutch RD would also have slap-preventing features.  It's a road bike, and 
>> that's why I've chosen a rear derailleur and good chainstay slap 
>> protection.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 3:31:54 PM UTC-7 Nick A. wrote:
>>
>>> In an attempt to bring this back to the original build talk-
>>>
>>> Mr. Lindsay, I'm loving your build and hope it serves you well. 
>>> Brilliant move on the seatpost mounted RD shifter.

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Bill Lindsay]

I had a few self-imposed procedural responsibilities in my stable that 
delayed my first ride on my 7of9with10on5 RoadUno.  I had planned on doing 
my September Diablo Summit, but stayed up a little late last night and 
slept in a little long this morning.  So instead I did my very standard 
Grizzly Peak route.  Executive summary: 23 miles, 2500 feet of climbing, 
splendid bike.  Zero tweaks needed or planned.  Perfect weather.  

tl/dr

Even though the bike has my 7of9with10on5 drivetrain, I decided to use it 
as its core design intended, as a two-speed.  I left the chain on the 18 
cog in back and didn't touch my seat tube mounted Rear shifter.  On the 23 
mile ride I shifted exactly twice.  I started in "low" (26x18) and road out 
to the of Grizzly Peak.  One roadie passed me on the climb.  He was 
probably 30 pounds lighter than me and he was on a ~$10k Parlee.  He passed 
me, but he had to work to do it.  At the top of Grizzly I stopped to take a 
photo:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964112524/in/album-72177720319657823

I left it in "low" as I coasted down the steep descent to Fish Ranch Road 
(max speed 32.2mph). Then I finished the second climb to the end of Grizzly 
Peak.  When I turned right onto Skyline/Old Tunnel, I shifted into "high" 
(38x18) and descended into Berkeley.  I stopped at Domingo Peet's and 
waited in the long line at Fournee Bakery.  There were lots of students out 
along the high-side of the UC Berkeley campus.  I think it's rush weekend 
for the greek organizations.  I continued to North Berkeley and shifted 
back into "low" to climb up Arlington Ave to home.  

The bike was a delight.  It's definitely an upright road bike, and it's 
exceedingly easy to ride.  I rode gloveless and the texture of my Vans 
grips and the roughness of shellacked Newbaums on the forward curves of the 
stock Choco bars make me think I'll probably run thin gloves In the future. 
 My 700x35 Gravel Kings were kind of skinny for the lousy pavement on the 
Old Tunnel Road descent.  Maybe I'll swap on the 700x43s that are on the 
stock wheels, or maybe I'll just swap over to the stock wheels wholesale.  

There are some loud complainers lamenting what the RoadUno became, because 
I think they wanted something more like a single speed Hunqapillar.  My 
enthusiasm for this bike was based on the idea that there's never been a 
bike quite like this, and I was eager to just let it be what it is and 
enjoy it for that.  I'm definitely all-in on that idea now.  With its long 
wheelbase and comparatively slack head angle it is indeed very smooth and 
stable as a road bike.  With a nice long front center, there's not even a 
threat of TCO.  I think this is going to make a really good S24O and 
touring bike.  

Also of note, it was new shoes day.  I haven't been riding flats much, and 
so I don't have a proper set of Adidas Sambas or the equivalent.  My wife 
didn't like the colors that Zappos had for Sambas, so we substituted Puma 
Palermos.  I liked them very much for the first ride out.  Pics prove that:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53964034033/in/album-72177720316423417

I'm super pleased with my new build and look forward to establishing its 
place in my stable.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 5:31:59 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> An old derailleur has a lot of things going for it.  Just note that the 
> drive side chainstay is totally unprotected.  That's why I wrapped it in 
> Newbaums.  A purpose built tensioner tends to have a stronger spring, and a 
> clutch RD would also have slap-preventing features.  It's a road bike, and 
> that's why I've chosen a rear derailleur and good chainstay slap 
> protection.  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 3:31:54 PM UTC-7 Nick A. wrote:
>
>> In an attempt to bring this back to the original build talk-
>>
>> Mr. Lindsay, I'm loving your build and hope it serves you well. Brilliant 
>> move on the seatpost mounted RD shifter. 
>>
>> In light of a few posts mentioning chain tensioners, I'd like to add to 
>> the group saying "use an old derailleur". I used a Shimano RX-100.  To hold 
>> it in place, I cut an old spoke down and it's been working great.
>>
>> Nick, falls church va
>>
>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 2:23:10 PM UTC-4 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly! The years long mystery has been solved
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 That's only the case if one deliberately misrepresents the size of 
 bicycles in the context of sloping top tubes.  Are you speculating that 
 Patrick Moore was teasingly threatening to broadcast to the world "Grant 
 insists that I ride a bike 6cm smaller than what I asked for!"?  If 
 Patrick 
 Moore did that, it would be a deliberate misrepresentation.  I guess if 
 somebody threatened Grant "I'm going to deliberately misrepresent your 
 bicycle designs to the public" then it would be perfectly

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Igor]

I still am interested in purchasing one of these myself. PBH of 83. I do 
not like the aesthetics of the 51 frame nor would I want 650B. Seems like a 
54.5 would be more than fine..

On Tuesday, August 27, 2024 at 11:51:11 PM UTC-4 Jeff B wrote:

> Very nicely done Bill. Since reading Will's email a while back about 
> potentially making the bike a 5 speed, I was thinking I would take on that 
> task. Now I might not have to, ha.
> My thought was that I could get a narrower Q-factor and a small range of 
> useable gears. Almost like a classic randonneur bike. Although it is a 
> Rivendell so it would be a little heavier than a spry classic rando.
>
> Jeff, Woodland, Ca
>
> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 5:31:59 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> An old derailleur has a lot of things going for it.  Just note that the 
>> drive side chainstay is totally unprotected.  That's why I wrapped it in 
>> Newbaums.  A purpose built tensioner tends to have a stronger spring, and a 
>> clutch RD would also have slap-preventing features.  It's a road bike, and 
>> that's why I've chosen a rear derailleur and good chainstay slap 
>> protection.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 3:31:54 PM UTC-7 Nick A. wrote:
>>
>>> In an attempt to bring this back to the original build talk-
>>>
>>> Mr. Lindsay, I'm loving your build and hope it serves you well. 
>>> Brilliant move on the seatpost mounted RD shifter. 
>>>
>>> In light of a few posts mentioning chain tensioners, I'd like to add to 
>>> the group saying "use an old derailleur". I used a Shimano RX-100.  To hold 
>>> it in place, I cut an old spoke down and it's been working great.
>>>
>>> Nick, falls church va
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 2:23:10 PM UTC-4 Edwin W wrote:
>>>
 Exactly! The years long mystery has been solved

 On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> That's only the case if one deliberately misrepresents the size of 
> bicycles in the context of sloping top tubes.  Are you speculating that 
> Patrick Moore was teasingly threatening to broadcast to the world "Grant 
> insists that I ride a bike 6cm smaller than what I asked for!"?  If 
> Patrick 
> Moore did that, it would be a deliberate misrepresentation.  I guess if 
> somebody threatened Grant "I'm going to deliberately misrepresent your 
> bicycle designs to the public" then it would be perfectly natural for 
> Grant 
> to respond "Don't you dare".  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 7:56:06 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>
>> A (ish) That while Grant was proselytizing that everyone has been 
>> undersized and should be on bigger sizes, for this guy who actually has 
>> embraced that big frame idea and small bit of seat post showing for a 
>> long 
>> time Grant is actually going to be DOWN sizing him to a 54.
>>
>>
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 10:42:50 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> What was it that Patrick Moore teasingly threatened to broadcast 
>>> that Grant did not want broadcast?
>>>
>>> A. That Grant would design a 54cm frame for an adult human that 
>>> thinks they need a 60cm frame?
>>> B. That Grant would allow "road" tubing to be used in an all-rounder 
>>> clone?
>>> C. That Grant would charge for a custom what was actually just an 
>>> All-Rounder and not a new design?
>>> D. Some other thing?
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't 
 comprehend what the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast 
 but 
 that Grant did not want you to broadcast.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked 
> Grant to build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He 
> said, "Oh, 
> it'll be better.")
>
> He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, 
> so it was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road 
> bike). I 
> told him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he 
> was 
> known for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you 
> dare."
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson <
> sarahlik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do 
>> this." 
>>
>> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Jeff B]

Very nicely done Bill. Since reading Will's email a while back about 
potentially making the bike a 5 speed, I was thinking I would take on that 
task. Now I might not have to, ha.
My thought was that I could get a narrower Q-factor and a small range of 
useable gears. Almost like a classic randonneur bike. Although it is a 
Rivendell so it would be a little heavier than a spry classic rando.

Jeff, Woodland, Ca

On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 5:31:59 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> An old derailleur has a lot of things going for it.  Just note that the 
> drive side chainstay is totally unprotected.  That's why I wrapped it in 
> Newbaums.  A purpose built tensioner tends to have a stronger spring, and a 
> clutch RD would also have slap-preventing features.  It's a road bike, and 
> that's why I've chosen a rear derailleur and good chainstay slap 
> protection.  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 3:31:54 PM UTC-7 Nick A. wrote:
>
>> In an attempt to bring this back to the original build talk-
>>
>> Mr. Lindsay, I'm loving your build and hope it serves you well. Brilliant 
>> move on the seatpost mounted RD shifter. 
>>
>> In light of a few posts mentioning chain tensioners, I'd like to add to 
>> the group saying "use an old derailleur". I used a Shimano RX-100.  To hold 
>> it in place, I cut an old spoke down and it's been working great.
>>
>> Nick, falls church va
>>
>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 2:23:10 PM UTC-4 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly! The years long mystery has been solved
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 That's only the case if one deliberately misrepresents the size of 
 bicycles in the context of sloping top tubes.  Are you speculating that 
 Patrick Moore was teasingly threatening to broadcast to the world "Grant 
 insists that I ride a bike 6cm smaller than what I asked for!"?  If 
 Patrick 
 Moore did that, it would be a deliberate misrepresentation.  I guess if 
 somebody threatened Grant "I'm going to deliberately misrepresent your 
 bicycle designs to the public" then it would be perfectly natural for 
 Grant 
 to respond "Don't you dare".  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 7:56:06 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:

> A (ish) That while Grant was proselytizing that everyone has been 
> undersized and should be on bigger sizes, for this guy who actually has 
> embraced that big frame idea and small bit of seat post showing for a 
> long 
> time Grant is actually going to be DOWN sizing him to a 54.
>
>
>
> Edwin
>
> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 10:42:50 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> What was it that Patrick Moore teasingly threatened to broadcast that 
>> Grant did not want broadcast?
>>
>> A. That Grant would design a 54cm frame for an adult human that 
>> thinks they need a 60cm frame?
>> B. That Grant would allow "road" tubing to be used in an all-rounder 
>> clone?
>> C. That Grant would charge for a custom what was actually just an 
>> All-Rounder and not a new design?
>> D. Some other thing?
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't comprehend 
>>> what the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast but that 
>>> Grant 
>>> did not want you to broadcast.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant 
 to build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, 
 it'll 
 be better.")

 He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, 
 so it was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road 
 bike). I 
 told him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he 
 was 
 known for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you 
 dare."

 On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson <
 sarahlik...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do 
> this." 
>
> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I 
>> was happy to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned 
>> that 
>> others would demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which 
>> is why 
>> Will put in the language that Riv can't replicate my build.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>


-- 
You receive

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Bill Lindsay]

An old derailleur has a lot of things going for it.  Just note that the 
drive side chainstay is totally unprotected.  That's why I wrapped it in 
Newbaums.  A purpose built tensioner tends to have a stronger spring, and a 
clutch RD would also have slap-preventing features.  It's a road bike, and 
that's why I've chosen a rear derailleur and good chainstay slap 
protection.  

BL in EC

On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 3:31:54 PM UTC-7 Nick A. wrote:

> In an attempt to bring this back to the original build talk-
>
> Mr. Lindsay, I'm loving your build and hope it serves you well. Brilliant 
> move on the seatpost mounted RD shifter. 
>
> In light of a few posts mentioning chain tensioners, I'd like to add to 
> the group saying "use an old derailleur". I used a Shimano RX-100.  To hold 
> it in place, I cut an old spoke down and it's been working great.
>
> Nick, falls church va
>
> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 2:23:10 PM UTC-4 Edwin W wrote:
>
>> Exactly! The years long mystery has been solved
>>
>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> That's only the case if one deliberately misrepresents the size of 
>>> bicycles in the context of sloping top tubes.  Are you speculating that 
>>> Patrick Moore was teasingly threatening to broadcast to the world "Grant 
>>> insists that I ride a bike 6cm smaller than what I asked for!"?  If Patrick 
>>> Moore did that, it would be a deliberate misrepresentation.  I guess if 
>>> somebody threatened Grant "I'm going to deliberately misrepresent your 
>>> bicycle designs to the public" then it would be perfectly natural for Grant 
>>> to respond "Don't you dare".  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 7:56:06 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>>>
 A (ish) That while Grant was proselytizing that everyone has been 
 undersized and should be on bigger sizes, for this guy who actually has 
 embraced that big frame idea and small bit of seat post showing for a long 
 time Grant is actually going to be DOWN sizing him to a 54.



 Edwin

 On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 10:42:50 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> What was it that Patrick Moore teasingly threatened to broadcast that 
> Grant did not want broadcast?
>
> A. That Grant would design a 54cm frame for an adult human that thinks 
> they need a 60cm frame?
> B. That Grant would allow "road" tubing to be used in an all-rounder 
> clone?
> C. That Grant would charge for a custom what was actually just an 
> All-Rounder and not a new design?
> D. Some other thing?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't comprehend 
>> what the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast but that Grant 
>> did not want you to broadcast.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant 
>>> to build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, 
>>> it'll 
>>> be better.")
>>>
>>> He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, 
>>> so it was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road 
>>> bike). I 
>>> told him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he 
>>> was 
>>> known for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you 
>>> dare."
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do 
 this." 

 On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I 
> was happy to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned 
> that 
> others would demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which 
> is why 
> Will put in the language that Riv can't replicate my build.  
>
> BL in EC
>

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Nick A.]

In an attempt to bring this back to the original build talk-

Mr. Lindsay, I'm loving your build and hope it serves you well. Brilliant 
move on the seatpost mounted RD shifter. 

In light of a few posts mentioning chain tensioners, I'd like to add to the 
group saying "use an old derailleur". I used a Shimano RX-100.  To hold it 
in place, I cut an old spoke down and it's been working great.

Nick, falls church va

On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 2:23:10 PM UTC-4 Edwin W wrote:

> Exactly! The years long mystery has been solved
>
> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> That's only the case if one deliberately misrepresents the size of 
>> bicycles in the context of sloping top tubes.  Are you speculating that 
>> Patrick Moore was teasingly threatening to broadcast to the world "Grant 
>> insists that I ride a bike 6cm smaller than what I asked for!"?  If Patrick 
>> Moore did that, it would be a deliberate misrepresentation.  I guess if 
>> somebody threatened Grant "I'm going to deliberately misrepresent your 
>> bicycle designs to the public" then it would be perfectly natural for Grant 
>> to respond "Don't you dare".  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 7:56:06 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> A (ish) That while Grant was proselytizing that everyone has been 
>>> undersized and should be on bigger sizes, for this guy who actually has 
>>> embraced that big frame idea and small bit of seat post showing for a long 
>>> time Grant is actually going to be DOWN sizing him to a 54.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 10:42:50 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 What was it that Patrick Moore teasingly threatened to broadcast that 
 Grant did not want broadcast?

 A. That Grant would design a 54cm frame for an adult human that thinks 
 they need a 60cm frame?
 B. That Grant would allow "road" tubing to be used in an all-rounder 
 clone?
 C. That Grant would charge for a custom what was actually just an 
 All-Rounder and not a new design?
 D. Some other thing?

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't comprehend 
> what the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast but that Grant 
> did not want you to broadcast.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant 
>> to build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, 
>> it'll 
>> be better.")
>>
>> He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, so 
>> it was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road bike). I 
>> told him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he 
>> was 
>> known for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you 
>> dare."
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do 
>>> this." 
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I was 
 happy to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned that 
 others 
 would demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which is why 
 Will 
 put in the language that Riv can't replicate my build.  

 BL in EC

>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Edwin W]

Exactly! The years long mystery has been solved

On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> That's only the case if one deliberately misrepresents the size of 
> bicycles in the context of sloping top tubes.  Are you speculating that 
> Patrick Moore was teasingly threatening to broadcast to the world "Grant 
> insists that I ride a bike 6cm smaller than what I asked for!"?  If Patrick 
> Moore did that, it would be a deliberate misrepresentation.  I guess if 
> somebody threatened Grant "I'm going to deliberately misrepresent your 
> bicycle designs to the public" then it would be perfectly natural for Grant 
> to respond "Don't you dare".  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 7:56:06 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>
>> A (ish) That while Grant was proselytizing that everyone has been 
>> undersized and should be on bigger sizes, for this guy who actually has 
>> embraced that big frame idea and small bit of seat post showing for a long 
>> time Grant is actually going to be DOWN sizing him to a 54.
>>
>>
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 10:42:50 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> What was it that Patrick Moore teasingly threatened to broadcast that 
>>> Grant did not want broadcast?
>>>
>>> A. That Grant would design a 54cm frame for an adult human that thinks 
>>> they need a 60cm frame?
>>> B. That Grant would allow "road" tubing to be used in an all-rounder 
>>> clone?
>>> C. That Grant would charge for a custom what was actually just an 
>>> All-Rounder and not a new design?
>>> D. Some other thing?
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't comprehend 
 what the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast but that Grant 
 did not want you to broadcast.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant to 
> build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, it'll 
> be 
> better.")
>
> He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, so 
> it was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road bike). I 
> told him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he was 
> known for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you dare."
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson  
> wrote:
>
>> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do this." 
>>
>> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I was 
>>> happy to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned that 
>>> others 
>>> would demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which is why 
>>> Will 
>>> put in the language that Riv can't replicate my build.  
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Bill Lindsay]

That's only the case if one deliberately misrepresents the size of bicycles 
in the context of sloping top tubes.  Are you speculating that Patrick 
Moore was teasingly threatening to broadcast to the world "Grant insists 
that I ride a bike 6cm smaller than what I asked for!"?  If Patrick Moore 
did that, it would be a deliberate misrepresentation.  I guess if somebody 
threatened Grant "I'm going to deliberately misrepresent your bicycle 
designs to the public" then it would be perfectly natural for Grant to 
respond "Don't you dare".  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 7:56:06 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:

> A (ish) That while Grant was proselytizing that everyone has been 
> undersized and should be on bigger sizes, for this guy who actually has 
> embraced that big frame idea and small bit of seat post showing for a long 
> time Grant is actually going to be DOWN sizing him to a 54.
>
>
>
> Edwin
>
> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 10:42:50 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> What was it that Patrick Moore teasingly threatened to broadcast that 
>> Grant did not want broadcast?
>>
>> A. That Grant would design a 54cm frame for an adult human that thinks 
>> they need a 60cm frame?
>> B. That Grant would allow "road" tubing to be used in an all-rounder 
>> clone?
>> C. That Grant would charge for a custom what was actually just an 
>> All-Rounder and not a new design?
>> D. Some other thing?
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't comprehend 
>>> what the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast but that Grant 
>>> did not want you to broadcast.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant to 
 build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, it'll 
 be 
 better.")

 He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, so 
 it was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road bike). I 
 told him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he was 
 known for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you dare."

 On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson  
 wrote:

> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do this." 
>
> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I was 
>> happy to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned that 
>> others 
>> would demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which is why Will 
>> put in the language that Riv can't replicate my build.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Edwin W]

A (ish) That while Grant was proselytizing that everyone has been 
undersized and should be on bigger sizes, for this guy who actually has 
embraced that big frame idea and small bit of seat post showing for a long 
time Grant is actually going to be DOWN sizing him to a 54.



Edwin

On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 10:42:50 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> What was it that Patrick Moore teasingly threatened to broadcast that 
> Grant did not want broadcast?
>
> A. That Grant would design a 54cm frame for an adult human that thinks 
> they need a 60cm frame?
> B. That Grant would allow "road" tubing to be used in an all-rounder clone?
> C. That Grant would charge for a custom what was actually just an 
> All-Rounder and not a new design?
> D. Some other thing?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't comprehend what 
>> the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast but that Grant did not 
>> want you to broadcast.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant to 
>>> build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, it'll be 
>>> better.")
>>>
>>> He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, so it 
>>> was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road bike). I told 
>>> him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he was known 
>>> for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you dare."
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do this." 

 On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I was 
> happy to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned that 
> others 
> would demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which is why Will 
> put in the language that Riv can't replicate my build.  
>
> BL in EC
>

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Bill Lindsay]

What was it that Patrick Moore teasingly threatened to broadcast that Grant 
did not want broadcast?

A. That Grant would design a 54cm frame for an adult human that thinks they 
need a 60cm frame?
B. That Grant would allow "road" tubing to be used in an all-rounder clone?
C. That Grant would charge for a custom what was actually just an 
All-Rounder and not a new design?
D. Some other thing?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't comprehend what 
> the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast but that Grant did not 
> want you to broadcast.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant to 
>> build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, it'll be 
>> better.")
>>
>> He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, so it 
>> was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road bike). I told 
>> him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he was known 
>> for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you dare."
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do this." 
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I was 
 happy to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned that 
 others 
 would demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which is why Will 
 put in the language that Riv can't replicate my build.  

 BL in EC

>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Bill Lindsay]

You've told that story a hundred times, and I still don't comprehend what 
the "this" is that you were threatening to broadcast but that Grant did not 
want you to broadcast.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 1:50:28 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant to 
> build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, it'll be 
> better.")
>
> He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, so it 
> was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road bike). I told 
> him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he was known 
> for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you dare."
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson  
> wrote:
>
>> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do this." 
>>
>> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I was 
>>> happy to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned that others 
>>> would demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which is why Will 
>>> put in the language that Riv can't replicate my build.  
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Patrick Moore]

Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant to
build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, it'll be
better.")

He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, so it
was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road bike). I told
him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he was known
for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you dare."

On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson 
wrote:

> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do this."
>
> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I was happy
>> to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned that others would
>> demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which is why Will put in
>> the language that Riv can't replicate my build.
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Mark V]

hi Patrick - SRAM used to make a 2 speed AUTOMATICKS or AUTOMATIX. I'm 
uncertain if it automatically shifted above a certain RPM, or if the rider 
had to kick back a 1/4 rotation like the S-A. I think it was bigger and 
heavier than the S-A. 

I bought my S-A off eBay a few years ago and I've been using on a Miyata 
OneThousand. I think I had a really hard time finding one without a coaster 
brake. The only one I could find was a bike shop in Canada with a NOS 
anodized blue.  (should look good with the Ana purple!)   I'm 
decommissioning the Miyata up size the frame and get a Rivendell. Finally. 

apologies if I've hijacked the thread!
mark v. 

On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 7:07:42 PM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:

> The Bendix repo project was done (or at least completed) by SOMA under the 
> "Eagle" name.  I've never been able to search for or find anything on 
> SOMA's websites.  Maybe others can.  There appear to be parts available, 
> but I can't find listings for the complete hub, whether discontinued or 
> otherwise.
>
> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 4:56:52 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> SA and someone else make or used recently to make 2 sp kickbacks without 
>> the coaster brakes which should work fine with derailleurs/tensioners. 
>> Quick Google just now shows only the SA SC2; a few years ago SA or/and 
>> someone else made a non-coaster-brake 2 sp kickback hub but I can't find 
>> any. Does anyone know the summer 2024 offerings?
>>
>> I've thought of getting one, only I'd want one with H = direct but the 
>> only recent ones I've heard of were Bendix repros to be made in India and 
>> those seem to have evaporated. Again, does anyone know?
>>
>> I'd use one with a pushbike.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 5:29 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> "and (just noticed)  3 x 6  in the Flickr pages?"
>>>
>>> My RoadUno is 2x7.  It's the stock 38/26 in front, and 12-28 in back  
>>>
>>> "I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes, they are 
>>> heavy) with a 3 ring set up."
>>>
>>> How will that work?  If you run a 3-ring setup with a front derailleur 
>>> you'll need a tensioner of some kind.  If you run a 2 speed kickback hub 
>>> you'll need to NOT run a tensioner of any kind.  
>>> Will it be a 2-speed kickback setup with no tensioner, and you can 
>>> manually move the wheel to accommodate one of the three rings?  If you do 
>>> that, then you need new rear brake setup for each wheel position.  Will it 
>>> be front brake only?  
>>>
>>> Have fun with it, whatever you do.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 3:16:11 PM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've got an Ana Purple RoadUno showing up tomorrow, Friday.  (first 
 bike purchase from Rivendell...) 
 I'm temporarily on weight lifting restrictions (thanks, cataract!), so 
 I've recruited my son to lend me a hand. Maybe I lend him a beer or 
 something...

 As far as going fixed, I saw that the RoadUno page (one of them, can't 
 recall which) recommends against doing so, as the bottom bracket drop is 
 relatively low (80mm drop?) . 

 Thanks for the early build pics and tips. -- and (just noticed)  3 x 6  
 in the Flickr pages?   I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub 
 (yes, 
 they are heavy) with a 3 ring set up. 
 Cheers. 

 On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Keith 
>
> What exactly are you after?  Are you looking to build a Roaduno fixed 
> with zero brakes and need to know max fenderless tire size you can run on 
> your fixie?  Are you plotting a cantilever conversion on a Roaduno?  Do 
> you 
> have a particular tire size that you must have, or is it just you need to 
> know the absolute largest tire that will fit without fenders.  Have you 
> asked Rivendell to do these measurements for you?  If you are in market 
> to 
> buy a frame and since they have lots of frames, maybe that's their job?
>
> I will be taking some Garage Door photos for Will, so he can put my 
> build in the Riv email newsletter.  At that time, I'll try to capture 
> what 
> you may be after.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 11:03:50 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Beautiful, Bill.  I suspect you'll be responsible for a number of new 
>> Roaduno sales in the near future, as people see your bike.
>>
>> When you have time, would you mind sharing some close-up pictures of 
>> tire clearances at the chain stays, seat stay brake bridge bridge and 
>> fork 
>> crown areas?   You build too quickly.  What I've really been dying to 
>> know 
>> is how big of a tire can be fit WITHOUT caliper brakes installed.  (I've 
>> been half-heartedly toying with a couple of alternative brake ideas 
>> since 
>> the Roaduno project shifted fro

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[iamkeith]

The Bendix repo project was done (or at least completed) by SOMA under the 
"Eagle" name.  I've never been able to search for or find anything on 
SOMA's websites.  Maybe others can.  There appear to be parts available, 
but I can't find listings for the complete hub, whether discontinued or 
otherwise.

On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 4:56:52 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> SA and someone else make or used recently to make 2 sp kickbacks without 
> the coaster brakes which should work fine with derailleurs/tensioners. 
> Quick Google just now shows only the SA SC2; a few years ago SA or/and 
> someone else made a non-coaster-brake 2 sp kickback hub but I can't find 
> any. Does anyone know the summer 2024 offerings?
>
> I've thought of getting one, only I'd want one with H = direct but the 
> only recent ones I've heard of were Bendix repros to be made in India and 
> those seem to have evaporated. Again, does anyone know?
>
> I'd use one with a pushbike.
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 5:29 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> "and (just noticed)  3 x 6  in the Flickr pages?"
>>
>> My RoadUno is 2x7.  It's the stock 38/26 in front, and 12-28 in back  
>>
>> "I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes, they are heavy) 
>> with a 3 ring set up."
>>
>> How will that work?  If you run a 3-ring setup with a front derailleur 
>> you'll need a tensioner of some kind.  If you run a 2 speed kickback hub 
>> you'll need to NOT run a tensioner of any kind.  
>> Will it be a 2-speed kickback setup with no tensioner, and you can 
>> manually move the wheel to accommodate one of the three rings?  If you do 
>> that, then you need new rear brake setup for each wheel position.  Will it 
>> be front brake only?  
>>
>> Have fun with it, whatever you do.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 3:16:11 PM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I've got an Ana Purple RoadUno showing up tomorrow, Friday.  (first bike 
>>> purchase from Rivendell...) 
>>> I'm temporarily on weight lifting restrictions (thanks, cataract!), so 
>>> I've recruited my son to lend me a hand. Maybe I lend him a beer or 
>>> something...
>>>
>>> As far as going fixed, I saw that the RoadUno page (one of them, can't 
>>> recall which) recommends against doing so, as the bottom bracket drop is 
>>> relatively low (80mm drop?) . 
>>>
>>> Thanks for the early build pics and tips. -- and (just noticed)  3 x 6  
>>> in the Flickr pages?   I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes, 
>>> they are heavy) with a 3 ring set up. 
>>> Cheers. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Keith 

 What exactly are you after?  Are you looking to build a Roaduno fixed 
 with zero brakes and need to know max fenderless tire size you can run on 
 your fixie?  Are you plotting a cantilever conversion on a Roaduno?  Do 
 you 
 have a particular tire size that you must have, or is it just you need to 
 know the absolute largest tire that will fit without fenders.  Have you 
 asked Rivendell to do these measurements for you?  If you are in market to 
 buy a frame and since they have lots of frames, maybe that's their job?

 I will be taking some Garage Door photos for Will, so he can put my 
 build in the Riv email newsletter.  At that time, I'll try to capture what 
 you may be after.

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 11:03:50 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

> Beautiful, Bill.  I suspect you'll be responsible for a number of new 
> Roaduno sales in the near future, as people see your bike.
>
> When you have time, would you mind sharing some close-up pictures of 
> tire clearances at the chain stays, seat stay brake bridge bridge and 
> fork 
> crown areas?   You build too quickly.  What I've really been dying to 
> know 
> is how big of a tire can be fit WITHOUT caliper brakes installed.  (I've 
> been half-heartedly toying with a couple of alternative brake ideas since 
> the Roaduno project shifted from a canti-clem to a caliper-homer format.) 
>  
> I dont expect you to disassmle or try different tires but, for anyone 
> else 
> reading this and getting ready to start their own build, I'd appreciate 
> any 
> insights if it's convenient.
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 9:32:35 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Good initial instruction, good tools, and lots of practice.  That's 
>> my formula for developing that confidence and mechanics' instinct.  I 
>> think 
>> most procedures really sink in after you fail one or more times, but 
>> failing at this operation on a new frame would be a bummer.  If you are 
>> nervous, have a pro do it.  If you want the practice, find a pro that 
>> will 
>> oversee you doing it.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>>
>> On Wed

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Patrick Moore]

SA and someone else make or used recently to make 2 sp kickbacks without
the coaster brakes which should work fine with derailleurs/tensioners.
Quick Google just now shows only the SA SC2; a few years ago SA or/and
someone else made a non-coaster-brake 2 sp kickback hub but I can't find
any. Does anyone know the summer 2024 offerings?

I've thought of getting one, only I'd want one with H = direct but the only
recent ones I've heard of were Bendix repros to be made in India and those
seem to have evaporated. Again, does anyone know?

I'd use one with a pushbike.

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 5:29 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> "and (just noticed)  3 x 6  in the Flickr pages?"
>
> My RoadUno is 2x7.  It's the stock 38/26 in front, and 12-28 in back
>
> "I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes, they are heavy)
> with a 3 ring set up."
>
> How will that work?  If you run a 3-ring setup with a front derailleur
> you'll need a tensioner of some kind.  If you run a 2 speed kickback hub
> you'll need to NOT run a tensioner of any kind.
> Will it be a 2-speed kickback setup with no tensioner, and you can
> manually move the wheel to accommodate one of the three rings?  If you do
> that, then you need new rear brake setup for each wheel position.  Will it
> be front brake only?
>
> Have fun with it, whatever you do.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 3:16:11 PM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've got an Ana Purple RoadUno showing up tomorrow, Friday.  (first bike
>> purchase from Rivendell...)
>> I'm temporarily on weight lifting restrictions (thanks, cataract!), so
>> I've recruited my son to lend me a hand. Maybe I lend him a beer or
>> something...
>>
>> As far as going fixed, I saw that the RoadUno page (one of them, can't
>> recall which) recommends against doing so, as the bottom bracket drop is
>> relatively low (80mm drop?) .
>>
>> Thanks for the early build pics and tips. -- and (just noticed)  3 x 6
>> in the Flickr pages?   I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes,
>> they are heavy) with a 3 ring set up.
>> Cheers.
>>
>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> What exactly are you after?  Are you looking to build a Roaduno fixed
>>> with zero brakes and need to know max fenderless tire size you can run on
>>> your fixie?  Are you plotting a cantilever conversion on a Roaduno?  Do you
>>> have a particular tire size that you must have, or is it just you need to
>>> know the absolute largest tire that will fit without fenders.  Have you
>>> asked Rivendell to do these measurements for you?  If you are in market to
>>> buy a frame and since they have lots of frames, maybe that's their job?
>>>
>>> I will be taking some Garage Door photos for Will, so he can put my
>>> build in the Riv email newsletter.  At that time, I'll try to capture what
>>> you may be after.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 11:03:50 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Beautiful, Bill.  I suspect you'll be responsible for a number of new
 Roaduno sales in the near future, as people see your bike.

 When you have time, would you mind sharing some close-up pictures of
 tire clearances at the chain stays, seat stay brake bridge bridge and fork
 crown areas?   You build too quickly.  What I've really been dying to know
 is how big of a tire can be fit WITHOUT caliper brakes installed.  (I've
 been half-heartedly toying with a couple of alternative brake ideas since
 the Roaduno project shifted from a canti-clem to a caliper-homer format.)
 I dont expect you to disassmle or try different tires but, for anyone else
 reading this and getting ready to start their own build, I'd appreciate any
 insights if it's convenient.

 On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 9:32:35 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Good initial instruction, good tools, and lots of practice.  That's my
> formula for developing that confidence and mechanics' instinct.  I think
> most procedures really sink in after you fail one or more times, but
> failing at this operation on a new frame would be a bummer.  If you are
> nervous, have a pro do it.  If you want the practice, find a pro that will
> oversee you doing it.
>
> BL in EC
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 8:12:56 AM UTC-7 Michael Connors
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Bill. I am nervous about running a tap in the RD hanger.  How do
>> you make sure that you are in the existing thread and not cutting a new 
>> one?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thread chasing was necessary on the RD hanger, but it was aligned
>> perfectly.  Most but not all of the H2O bolt and fender bolt bosses were
>> already chased.  It was all straightforward prep for a mechanic.  There 
>> was
>> no BB cable guide included, but I had those on-hand.  I installed a 
>> Sh

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Bill Lindsay]

"Not sure if I need a BB swap to go to the 3 ring"

The "big ring" position is occupied by a guard, so you won't need a 
different BB.  Just pull the guard and put on your big ring in its place.  

BL in EC

On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 1:08:40 PM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Eric - I was planning on a 3x1 set up from the get go. I already 
> ordered/received the 44t ring, the DT shifter, the Melvinator. I ordered up 
> the RoadUno complete, so going 3x...2IGH (?) will just be a wheel swap from 
> the stock wheel after I set up the 3x1.  First bunch of rides will be 1x1, 
> since it's my understanding that's how I'm getting it. 
>
> Not sure if I need a BB swap to go to the 3 ring circus... crankset. I 
> think I got a few BB rolling around the parts bin.
> Hopefully photos tomorrow!
> mark v. 
>
> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 3:35:41 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> I think I would try this experiment with a really cheap rear 
>> derailleur from the co-op, not a Paul Melvin. But that's just me.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 11:18 AM Mark V  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bill - 
>>> My S-A 2sp does not have a coaster bake. So:  Rim Brakes 4ever!  (both 
>>> front and rear) 
>>> I'm using a Paul Melvinator (high zoot!). I read - either at the Paul 
>>> Comp website or Rivendell - it can accommodate 20t difference for the 
>>> chainrings. 
>>>
>>> How the tensioner interacts with the kick back mechanism will be a bit 
>>> of a SheldonBrown style experiment. I get your point - there's going to be 
>>> some kind of finickiness between the chain tensioner and the force to shift 
>>> when back pedaling. 
>>> I'll have to start a thread on if it works or not. Maybe grab different 
>>> deraiilleurs and set up a Design of Experiments!
>>>
>>> I'm expecting fun - as soon as UPS gets it to me I missed the 
>>> delivery this AM, as they moved the time up by more than 2 hours. :| 
>>> Mark V. 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 7:29:01 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 "and (just noticed)  3 x 6  in the Flickr pages?"

 My RoadUno is 2x7.  It's the stock 38/26 in front, and 12-28 in back  

 "I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes, they are 
 heavy) with a 3 ring set up."

 How will that work?  If you run a 3-ring setup with a front derailleur 
 you'll need a tensioner of some kind.  If you run a 2 speed kickback hub 
 you'll need to NOT run a tensioner of any kind.  
 Will it be a 2-speed kickback setup with no tensioner, and you can 
 manually move the wheel to accommodate one of the three rings?  If you do 
 that, then you need new rear brake setup for each wheel position.  Will it 
 be front brake only?  

 Have fun with it, whatever you do.

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 3:16:11 PM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I've got an Ana Purple RoadUno showing up tomorrow, Friday.  (first 
> bike purchase from Rivendell...) 
> I'm temporarily on weight lifting restrictions (thanks, cataract!), so 
> I've recruited my son to lend me a hand. Maybe I lend him a beer or 
> something...
>
> As far as going fixed, I saw that the RoadUno page (one of them, can't 
> recall which) recommends against doing so, as the bottom bracket drop is 
> relatively low (80mm drop?) . 
>
> Thanks for the early build pics and tips. -- and (just noticed)  3 x 
> 6  in the Flickr pages?   I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub 
> (yes, they are heavy) with a 3 ring set up. 
> Cheers. 
>
> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Keith 
>>
>> What exactly are you after?  Are you looking to build a Roaduno fixed 
>> with zero brakes and need to know max fenderless tire size you can run 
>> on 
>> your fixie?  Are you plotting a cantilever conversion on a Roaduno?  Do 
>> you 
>> have a particular tire size that you must have, or is it just you need 
>> to 
>> know the absolute largest tire that will fit without fenders.  Have you 
>> asked Rivendell to do these measurements for you?  If you are in market 
>> to 
>> buy a frame and since they have lots of frames, maybe that's their job?
>>
>> I will be taking some Garage Door photos for Will, so he can put my 
>> build in the Riv email newsletter.  At that time, I'll try to capture 
>> what 
>> you may be after.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 11:03:50 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> Beautiful, Bill.  I suspect you'll be responsible for a number of 
>>> new Roaduno sales in the near future, as people see your bike.
>>>
>>> When you have time, would you mind sharing some close-up pictures of 
>>> tire clearances at the chain stays, seat stay brake bridge bridge an

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Mark V]

Hi Eric - I was planning on a 3x1 set up from the get go. I already 
ordered/received the 44t ring, the DT shifter, the Melvinator. I ordered up 
the RoadUno complete, so going 3x...2IGH (?) will just be a wheel swap from 
the stock wheel after I set up the 3x1.  First bunch of rides will be 1x1, 
since it's my understanding that's how I'm getting it. 

Not sure if I need a BB swap to go to the 3 ring circus... crankset. I 
think I got a few BB rolling around the parts bin.
Hopefully photos tomorrow!
mark v. 

On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 3:35:41 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:

> I think I would try this experiment with a really cheap rear 
> derailleur from the co-op, not a Paul Melvin. But that's just me.
>
> Eric
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 11:18 AM Mark V  wrote:
>
>> Hi Bill - 
>> My S-A 2sp does not have a coaster bake. So:  Rim Brakes 4ever!  (both 
>> front and rear) 
>> I'm using a Paul Melvinator (high zoot!). I read - either at the Paul 
>> Comp website or Rivendell - it can accommodate 20t difference for the 
>> chainrings. 
>>
>> How the tensioner interacts with the kick back mechanism will be a bit of 
>> a SheldonBrown style experiment. I get your point - there's going to be 
>> some kind of finickiness between the chain tensioner and the force to shift 
>> when back pedaling. 
>> I'll have to start a thread on if it works or not. Maybe grab different 
>> deraiilleurs and set up a Design of Experiments!
>>
>> I'm expecting fun - as soon as UPS gets it to me I missed the 
>> delivery this AM, as they moved the time up by more than 2 hours. :| 
>> Mark V. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 7:29:01 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> "and (just noticed)  3 x 6  in the Flickr pages?"
>>>
>>> My RoadUno is 2x7.  It's the stock 38/26 in front, and 12-28 in back  
>>>
>>> "I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes, they are 
>>> heavy) with a 3 ring set up."
>>>
>>> How will that work?  If you run a 3-ring setup with a front derailleur 
>>> you'll need a tensioner of some kind.  If you run a 2 speed kickback hub 
>>> you'll need to NOT run a tensioner of any kind.  
>>> Will it be a 2-speed kickback setup with no tensioner, and you can 
>>> manually move the wheel to accommodate one of the three rings?  If you do 
>>> that, then you need new rear brake setup for each wheel position.  Will it 
>>> be front brake only?  
>>>
>>> Have fun with it, whatever you do.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 3:16:11 PM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've got an Ana Purple RoadUno showing up tomorrow, Friday.  (first 
 bike purchase from Rivendell...) 
 I'm temporarily on weight lifting restrictions (thanks, cataract!), so 
 I've recruited my son to lend me a hand. Maybe I lend him a beer or 
 something...

 As far as going fixed, I saw that the RoadUno page (one of them, can't 
 recall which) recommends against doing so, as the bottom bracket drop is 
 relatively low (80mm drop?) . 

 Thanks for the early build pics and tips. -- and (just noticed)  3 x 6  
 in the Flickr pages?   I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub 
 (yes, 
 they are heavy) with a 3 ring set up. 
 Cheers. 

 On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Keith 
>
> What exactly are you after?  Are you looking to build a Roaduno fixed 
> with zero brakes and need to know max fenderless tire size you can run on 
> your fixie?  Are you plotting a cantilever conversion on a Roaduno?  Do 
> you 
> have a particular tire size that you must have, or is it just you need to 
> know the absolute largest tire that will fit without fenders.  Have you 
> asked Rivendell to do these measurements for you?  If you are in market 
> to 
> buy a frame and since they have lots of frames, maybe that's their job?
>
> I will be taking some Garage Door photos for Will, so he can put my 
> build in the Riv email newsletter.  At that time, I'll try to capture 
> what 
> you may be after.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 11:03:50 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Beautiful, Bill.  I suspect you'll be responsible for a number of new 
>> Roaduno sales in the near future, as people see your bike.
>>
>> When you have time, would you mind sharing some close-up pictures of 
>> tire clearances at the chain stays, seat stay brake bridge bridge and 
>> fork 
>> crown areas?   You build too quickly.  What I've really been dying to 
>> know 
>> is how big of a tire can be fit WITHOUT caliper brakes installed.  (I've 
>> been half-heartedly toying with a couple of alternative brake ideas 
>> since 
>> the Roaduno project shifted from a canti-clem to a caliper-homer 
>> format.)  
>> I dont expect you to disassmle or 

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Eric Daume]

I think I would try this experiment with a really cheap rear
derailleur from the co-op, not a Paul Melvin. But that's just me.

Eric

On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 11:18 AM Mark V  wrote:

> Hi Bill -
> My S-A 2sp does not have a coaster bake. So:  Rim Brakes 4ever!  (both
> front and rear)
> I'm using a Paul Melvinator (high zoot!). I read - either at the Paul Comp
> website or Rivendell - it can accommodate 20t difference for the
> chainrings.
>
> How the tensioner interacts with the kick back mechanism will be a bit of
> a SheldonBrown style experiment. I get your point - there's going to be
> some kind of finickiness between the chain tensioner and the force to shift
> when back pedaling.
> I'll have to start a thread on if it works or not. Maybe grab different
> deraiilleurs and set up a Design of Experiments!
>
> I'm expecting fun - as soon as UPS gets it to me I missed the delivery
> this AM, as they moved the time up by more than 2 hours. :|
> Mark V.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 7:29:01 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> "and (just noticed)  3 x 6  in the Flickr pages?"
>>
>> My RoadUno is 2x7.  It's the stock 38/26 in front, and 12-28 in back
>>
>> "I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes, they are heavy)
>> with a 3 ring set up."
>>
>> How will that work?  If you run a 3-ring setup with a front derailleur
>> you'll need a tensioner of some kind.  If you run a 2 speed kickback hub
>> you'll need to NOT run a tensioner of any kind.
>> Will it be a 2-speed kickback setup with no tensioner, and you can
>> manually move the wheel to accommodate one of the three rings?  If you do
>> that, then you need new rear brake setup for each wheel position.  Will it
>> be front brake only?
>>
>> Have fun with it, whatever you do.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 3:16:11 PM UTC-7 mvie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I've got an Ana Purple RoadUno showing up tomorrow, Friday.  (first bike
>>> purchase from Rivendell...)
>>> I'm temporarily on weight lifting restrictions (thanks, cataract!), so
>>> I've recruited my son to lend me a hand. Maybe I lend him a beer or
>>> something...
>>>
>>> As far as going fixed, I saw that the RoadUno page (one of them, can't
>>> recall which) recommends against doing so, as the bottom bracket drop is
>>> relatively low (80mm drop?) .
>>>
>>> Thanks for the early build pics and tips. -- and (just noticed)  3 x 6
>>> in the Flickr pages?   I'm probably going to use a 2spd kick back hub (yes,
>>> they are heavy) with a 3 ring set up.
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 11:50:21 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Keith

 What exactly are you after?  Are you looking to build a Roaduno fixed
 with zero brakes and need to know max fenderless tire size you can run on
 your fixie?  Are you plotting a cantilever conversion on a Roaduno?  Do you
 have a particular tire size that you must have, or is it just you need to
 know the absolute largest tire that will fit without fenders.  Have you
 asked Rivendell to do these measurements for you?  If you are in market to
 buy a frame and since they have lots of frames, maybe that's their job?

 I will be taking some Garage Door photos for Will, so he can put my
 build in the Riv email newsletter.  At that time, I'll try to capture what
 you may be after.

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 11:03:50 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

> Beautiful, Bill.  I suspect you'll be responsible for a number of new
> Roaduno sales in the near future, as people see your bike.
>
> When you have time, would you mind sharing some close-up pictures of
> tire clearances at the chain stays, seat stay brake bridge bridge and fork
> crown areas?   You build too quickly.  What I've really been dying to know
> is how big of a tire can be fit WITHOUT caliper brakes installed.  (I've
> been half-heartedly toying with a couple of alternative brake ideas since
> the Roaduno project shifted from a canti-clem to a caliper-homer format.)
> I dont expect you to disassmle or try different tires but, for anyone else
> reading this and getting ready to start their own build, I'd appreciate 
> any
> insights if it's convenient.
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 9:32:35 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Good initial instruction, good tools, and lots of practice.  That's
>> my formula for developing that confidence and mechanics' instinct.  I 
>> think
>> most procedures really sink in after you fail one or more times, but
>> failing at this operation on a new frame would be a bummer.  If you are
>> nervous, have a pro do it.  If you want the practice, find a pro that 
>> will
>> oversee you doing it.
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 8:12:56 AM UTC-7 Michael Connors
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for having a pro do it, and make sure it's a pro. I had the French
threads in a nice Pro 5 Vis crankset tapped for English pedals by a nearby
bike shop. The head mechanic was eager but inexperienced and got the right
threads cockeyed. I had a heckofatime getting compensation from the owner
(recall standing around in the store for about an hour as the owner did her
very best to ignore me, but I persisted).

On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 9:32 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Good initial instruction, good tools, and lots of practice.  That's my
> formula for developing that confidence and mechanics' instinct.  I think
> most procedures really sink in after you fail one or more times, but
> failing at this operation on a new frame would be a bummer.  If you are
> nervous, have a pro do it.  If you want the practice, find a pro that will
> oversee you doing it.
>
> BL in EC
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 8:12:56 AM UTC-7 Michael Connors wrote:
>
>> Hi Bill. I am nervous about running a tap in the RD hanger.  How do you
>> make sure that you are in the existing thread and not cutting a new one?
>>
>

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