Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Nicholas A]

I have Dia Compe long reachers on my Homer, I think they're for all intents 
and purposes the same as the R559, have Kool Stop pads on them too.
I find them pretty good, I think for any major upgrade to the performance 
you'd have to go to the Paul Racer which are a pretty penny.
The only time I'd find them inadequate would be descending steep off road 
stuff in the rain, in which case you can generally just take a different 
route and hey presto no problem. 

On Monday, 31 March 2025 at 14:53:59 UTC+1 nics...@gmail.com wrote:

> What brakes are you guys using? I've got some Tektro R559 on now with the 
> kool stop pads which seem to be great so far but curious what a bigger 
> upgrade would look like since I've been wanting to push the Roadini.
>
> Thanks,
> Nic
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 5:35 PM dane...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> I was riding my Roadini down a muddy double track with some rocky 
>> sections yesterday with 32s and was also surprised by how smooth it felt.  
>> I'm chalking it up to the fork flex.  I go back and forth but Ive been 
>> really enjoying riding everything with the skinnier tires.  
>>
>> Nice fixed gear Patrick.  I'm building something up somewhat similar for 
>> as cheap as possible soon.  I miss riding fixed. 
>>
>> -Dan
>>
>> On Saturday, March 22, 2025 at 8:53:31 PM UTC-4 Dan wrote:
>>
>>> I share your thoughts Jay. I took my Roadini on a mostly-road ride 
>>> today, but mixed in some mellow gravel trails and singletrack. The bike is 
>>> unperturbed. Is it a mountain bike? No. But it can go anywhere. I'm 
>>> reminded of some words by Will from Riv where he said the Roadini opened up 
>>> his riding to be able to take the singletrack shortcut to bypass a busy 
>>> road, etc. It's true.
>>>
>>> I recently read an old Riv Reader (from 2005 or so) where they 
>>> introduced the concept of 'Country Bikes'. I think the current Roadini with 
>>> its wider tyre clearance fits the description to a tee, and looks very much 
>>> like the Saluki they used to illustrate the concept. Sure, with the 
>>> proliferation of gravel bikes today, the idea of a 'country bike' as a 
>>> category has become reality. But by 2005 standards, I'd say the current 
>>> Roadini is a country bike. The world hasn't changed that much since then - 
>>> just our perceptions of it and what we think is necessary.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 March 2025 at 23:44:16 UTC+10:30 Jay wrote:
>>>
 I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice dash 
 of trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If I take 
 it 
 slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, actually.  On 
 the 
 same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt bars, 2.2" tires, and it 
 was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner hard with a lot of 
 confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini (with my skills, or lack 
 thereof).  What's great though, is that on the Roadini I can ride almost 
 anywhere, comfortably as I'm alternating between paved, unpaved, which is 
 a 
 lot of fun.  When I want to hit my local trails (90% unpaved), I would 
 definitely reach for the Fargo.

 On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:

> I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, some 
> of them anyways.
>
> It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was 
> pervasive.  One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 5-10 
> days, and with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  I 
> dropped pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  90% 
> of 
> the ride was on the trails.  I really noticed the difference with the 
> lower 
> pressure, from say 35-40psi which I would normally run these tires when 
> 90% 
> paved.  It made the ride very smooth (not 2.2" tire smooth).  What was 
> great was the comfort on the bike; riding trails only took a little of 
> that 
> away with the extra upper body effort required and more climbs/descents 
> and 
> posture that I don't often use on paved surfaces.  I was surprised that 
> the 
> braking was more than adequate, and really enjoy being in the drops on 
> descents for extra control.  The tires were probably the only downside, 
> partly due to my lack of skill.  I had a bit of a rear-tire slide a 
> couple 
> of times on slick turns, but once I realized it was happening I rode more 
> cautiously rest of the time.  I think with 42-45 aggressive tread this 
> bike 
> would be more than capable for the trails in my area.
>
> P.S. one of my other posts is about alt/swept bars that I'm putting on 
> my Salsa Fargo.  I look forward to comparing performance between the 
> bikes, 
> and comfort (on these trails).
>
> On Saturday, March 15, 2025 at 10:48:03 AM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Dan]

Jay, I highly recommend you try better pads. 
I have the 369 and Dia Compe BRS202 (Dia Compe’s version of a long reach 
brake) on my 650b single speed. When I changed from the stock pads to 
Shimano Ultegra pads, braking improved from ‘adequate’ to ‘good’. This is 
with flat bar levers. 

My Roadini has Paul Racers with drop bar levers. They are slightly more 
powerful but feel a lot better. Firmer, and more easy to modulate. They 
remind me of the brakes on my Toyota 86, back when I used to have a car. 
The response is firm but linear, so you know and can control exactly how 
much braking force you exert. 

On Thursday, 3 April 2025 at 08:33:24 UTC+10:30 Jay wrote:

> I have the 369's (similar to 559) with stock pads.  They're okay.  Were 
> not great in very cold weather, but then I was rarely unpaved on those 
> winter rides.
>
> On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 10:19:13 AM UTC-4 dane...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have the tektro 559's on mines.  With Kool Stop pads swapped in.  Work 
>> fine for me.  Curious how much better the Pauls would actually work.
>>
>> -Dan
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 8:12:44 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:
>>
>>> Nic,
>>>
>>> Not Roadini, but my Rambouillet after trying various pads to optimize 
>>> the moderate reach Shimano dual pivot calipers' braking that came on it I 
>>> popped for the Paul Racers. 
>>>
>>> A descent in the pouring rain changed my mind about expense as my levers 
>>> were against the handlebars with orange Kool Stop pads on the rims but was 
>>> in no way able to stop at a stop sign. Thankfully no cross traffic and a 
>>> long run out at the bottom of the grade. That's what it took to realize how 
>>> much caliper arm flex was possible as I tried to make more friction with 
>>> the rim in the wet conditions. 
>>>
>>> Yes the Racers were dear but it was the perfect prescription for what 
>>> was designed as a sport touring/randonneur-inspired "road" bike that I ride 
>>> in many environments and conditions. Best part was being able to speak to 
>>> Paul Price at the Phily Bike Expo after riding with his brakes for a season 
>>> and give him my kudos directly.
>>>
>>> [image: CB1B6BD2-B387-44D8-894D-14AF1B709563_1_105_c.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Andy Cheatham
>>> Pittsburgh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 31, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-4 nics...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 What brakes are you guys using? I've got some Tektro R559 on now with 
 the kool stop pads which seem to be great so far but curious what a bigger 
 upgrade would look like since I've been wanting to push the Roadini.

 Thanks,
 Nic


 On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 5:35 PM dane...@gmail.com  
 wrote:

> I was riding my Roadini down a muddy double track with some rocky 
> sections yesterday with 32s and was also surprised by how smooth it felt. 
>  
> I'm chalking it up to the fork flex.  I go back and forth but Ive been 
> really enjoying riding everything with the skinnier tires.  
>
> Nice fixed gear Patrick.  I'm building something up somewhat similar 
> for as cheap as possible soon.  I miss riding fixed. 
>
> -Dan
>
> On Saturday, March 22, 2025 at 8:53:31 PM UTC-4 Dan wrote:
>
>> I share your thoughts Jay. I took my Roadini on a mostly-road ride 
>> today, but mixed in some mellow gravel trails and singletrack. The bike 
>> is 
>> unperturbed. Is it a mountain bike? No. But it can go anywhere. I'm 
>> reminded of some words by Will from Riv where he said the Roadini opened 
>> up 
>> his riding to be able to take the singletrack shortcut to bypass a busy 
>> road, etc. It's true.
>>
>> I recently read an old Riv Reader (from 2005 or so) where they 
>> introduced the concept of 'Country Bikes'. I think the current Roadini 
>> with 
>> its wider tyre clearance fits the description to a tee, and looks very 
>> much 
>> like the Saluki they used to illustrate the concept. Sure, with the 
>> proliferation of gravel bikes today, the idea of a 'country bike' as a 
>> category has become reality. But by 2005 standards, I'd say the current 
>> Roadini is a country bike. The world hasn't changed that much since then 
>> - 
>> just our perceptions of it and what we think is necessary.
>>
>> On Saturday, 22 March 2025 at 23:44:16 UTC+10:30 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice 
>>> dash of trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If 
>>> I 
>>> take it slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, 
>>> actually.  On the same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt 
>>> bars, 
>>> 2.2" tires, and it was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner 
>>> hard with a lot of confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini 
>>> (with 
>>> my skills, or lack thereof).  What's great though, is that on the 
>>> Roadini I 
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Jay]

I have the 369's (similar to 559) with stock pads.  They're okay.  Were not 
great in very cold weather, but then I was rarely unpaved on those winter 
rides.

On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 10:19:13 AM UTC-4 dane...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have the tektro 559's on mines.  With Kool Stop pads swapped in.  Work 
> fine for me.  Curious how much better the Pauls would actually work.
>
> -Dan
>
> On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 8:12:44 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> Nic,
>>
>> Not Roadini, but my Rambouillet after trying various pads to optimize the 
>> moderate reach Shimano dual pivot calipers' braking that came on it I 
>> popped for the Paul Racers. 
>>
>> A descent in the pouring rain changed my mind about expense as my levers 
>> were against the handlebars with orange Kool Stop pads on the rims but was 
>> in no way able to stop at a stop sign. Thankfully no cross traffic and a 
>> long run out at the bottom of the grade. That's what it took to realize how 
>> much caliper arm flex was possible as I tried to make more friction with 
>> the rim in the wet conditions. 
>>
>> Yes the Racers were dear but it was the perfect prescription for what was 
>> designed as a sport touring/randonneur-inspired "road" bike that I ride in 
>> many environments and conditions. Best part was being able to speak to Paul 
>> Price at the Phily Bike Expo after riding with his brakes for a season and 
>> give him my kudos directly.
>>
>> [image: CB1B6BD2-B387-44D8-894D-14AF1B709563_1_105_c.jpeg]
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, March 31, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-4 nics...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> What brakes are you guys using? I've got some Tektro R559 on now with 
>>> the kool stop pads which seem to be great so far but curious what a bigger 
>>> upgrade would look like since I've been wanting to push the Roadini.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nic
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 5:35 PM dane...@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I was riding my Roadini down a muddy double track with some rocky 
 sections yesterday with 32s and was also surprised by how smooth it felt.  
 I'm chalking it up to the fork flex.  I go back and forth but Ive been 
 really enjoying riding everything with the skinnier tires.  

 Nice fixed gear Patrick.  I'm building something up somewhat similar 
 for as cheap as possible soon.  I miss riding fixed. 

 -Dan

 On Saturday, March 22, 2025 at 8:53:31 PM UTC-4 Dan wrote:

> I share your thoughts Jay. I took my Roadini on a mostly-road ride 
> today, but mixed in some mellow gravel trails and singletrack. The bike 
> is 
> unperturbed. Is it a mountain bike? No. But it can go anywhere. I'm 
> reminded of some words by Will from Riv where he said the Roadini opened 
> up 
> his riding to be able to take the singletrack shortcut to bypass a busy 
> road, etc. It's true.
>
> I recently read an old Riv Reader (from 2005 or so) where they 
> introduced the concept of 'Country Bikes'. I think the current Roadini 
> with 
> its wider tyre clearance fits the description to a tee, and looks very 
> much 
> like the Saluki they used to illustrate the concept. Sure, with the 
> proliferation of gravel bikes today, the idea of a 'country bike' as a 
> category has become reality. But by 2005 standards, I'd say the current 
> Roadini is a country bike. The world hasn't changed that much since then 
> - 
> just our perceptions of it and what we think is necessary.
>
> On Saturday, 22 March 2025 at 23:44:16 UTC+10:30 Jay wrote:
>
>> I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice 
>> dash of trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If I 
>> take it slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, 
>> actually.  On the same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt bars, 
>> 2.2" tires, and it was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner 
>> hard with a lot of confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini 
>> (with 
>> my skills, or lack thereof).  What's great though, is that on the 
>> Roadini I 
>> can ride almost anywhere, comfortably as I'm alternating between paved, 
>> unpaved, which is a lot of fun.  When I want to hit my local trails (90% 
>> unpaved), I would definitely reach for the Fargo.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, 
>>> some of them anyways.
>>>
>>> It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was 
>>> pervasive.  One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 
>>> 5-10 
>>> days, and with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  
>>> I 
>>> dropped pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  
>>> 90% of 
>>> the ride was on the trails.  I rea

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[dane...@gmail.com]

I have the tektro 559's on mines.  With Kool Stop pads swapped in.  Work 
fine for me.  Curious how much better the Pauls would actually work.

-Dan

On Tuesday, April 1, 2025 at 8:12:44 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> Nic,
>
> Not Roadini, but my Rambouillet after trying various pads to optimize the 
> moderate reach Shimano dual pivot calipers' braking that came on it I 
> popped for the Paul Racers. 
>
> A descent in the pouring rain changed my mind about expense as my levers 
> were against the handlebars with orange Kool Stop pads on the rims but was 
> in no way able to stop at a stop sign. Thankfully no cross traffic and a 
> long run out at the bottom of the grade. That's what it took to realize how 
> much caliper arm flex was possible as I tried to make more friction with 
> the rim in the wet conditions. 
>
> Yes the Racers were dear but it was the perfect prescription for what was 
> designed as a sport touring/randonneur-inspired "road" bike that I ride in 
> many environments and conditions. Best part was being able to speak to Paul 
> Price at the Phily Bike Expo after riding with his brakes for a season and 
> give him my kudos directly.
>
> [image: CB1B6BD2-B387-44D8-894D-14AF1B709563_1_105_c.jpeg]
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
>
>
> On Monday, March 31, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-4 nics...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> What brakes are you guys using? I've got some Tektro R559 on now with the 
>> kool stop pads which seem to be great so far but curious what a bigger 
>> upgrade would look like since I've been wanting to push the Roadini.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nic
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 5:35 PM dane...@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was riding my Roadini down a muddy double track with some rocky 
>>> sections yesterday with 32s and was also surprised by how smooth it felt.  
>>> I'm chalking it up to the fork flex.  I go back and forth but Ive been 
>>> really enjoying riding everything with the skinnier tires.  
>>>
>>> Nice fixed gear Patrick.  I'm building something up somewhat similar for 
>>> as cheap as possible soon.  I miss riding fixed. 
>>>
>>> -Dan
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 22, 2025 at 8:53:31 PM UTC-4 Dan wrote:
>>>
 I share your thoughts Jay. I took my Roadini on a mostly-road ride 
 today, but mixed in some mellow gravel trails and singletrack. The bike is 
 unperturbed. Is it a mountain bike? No. But it can go anywhere. I'm 
 reminded of some words by Will from Riv where he said the Roadini opened 
 up 
 his riding to be able to take the singletrack shortcut to bypass a busy 
 road, etc. It's true.

 I recently read an old Riv Reader (from 2005 or so) where they 
 introduced the concept of 'Country Bikes'. I think the current Roadini 
 with 
 its wider tyre clearance fits the description to a tee, and looks very 
 much 
 like the Saluki they used to illustrate the concept. Sure, with the 
 proliferation of gravel bikes today, the idea of a 'country bike' as a 
 category has become reality. But by 2005 standards, I'd say the current 
 Roadini is a country bike. The world hasn't changed that much since then - 
 just our perceptions of it and what we think is necessary.

 On Saturday, 22 March 2025 at 23:44:16 UTC+10:30 Jay wrote:

> I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice 
> dash of trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If I 
> take it slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, 
> actually.  On the same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt bars, 
> 2.2" tires, and it was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner 
> hard with a lot of confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini 
> (with 
> my skills, or lack thereof).  What's great though, is that on the Roadini 
> I 
> can ride almost anywhere, comfortably as I'm alternating between paved, 
> unpaved, which is a lot of fun.  When I want to hit my local trails (90% 
> unpaved), I would definitely reach for the Fargo.
>
> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:
>
>> I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, some 
>> of them anyways.
>>
>> It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was 
>> pervasive.  One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 5-10 
>> days, and with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  I 
>> dropped pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  90% 
>> of 
>> the ride was on the trails.  I really noticed the difference with the 
>> lower 
>> pressure, from say 35-40psi which I would normally run these tires when 
>> 90% 
>> paved.  It made the ride very smooth (not 2.2" tire smooth).  What was 
>> great was the comfort on the bike; riding trails only took a little of 
>> that 
>> away with the extra upper body effort required and 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Nicolas H]

What brakes are you guys using? I've got some Tektro R559 on now with the
kool stop pads which seem to be great so far but curious what a bigger
upgrade would look like since I've been wanting to push the Roadini.

Thanks,
Nic


On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 5:35 PM dane...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I was riding my Roadini down a muddy double track with some rocky sections
> yesterday with 32s and was also surprised by how smooth it felt.  I'm
> chalking it up to the fork flex.  I go back and forth but Ive been really
> enjoying riding everything with the skinnier tires.
>
> Nice fixed gear Patrick.  I'm building something up somewhat similar for
> as cheap as possible soon.  I miss riding fixed.
>
> -Dan
>
> On Saturday, March 22, 2025 at 8:53:31 PM UTC-4 Dan wrote:
>
>> I share your thoughts Jay. I took my Roadini on a mostly-road ride today,
>> but mixed in some mellow gravel trails and singletrack. The bike is
>> unperturbed. Is it a mountain bike? No. But it can go anywhere. I'm
>> reminded of some words by Will from Riv where he said the Roadini opened up
>> his riding to be able to take the singletrack shortcut to bypass a busy
>> road, etc. It's true.
>>
>> I recently read an old Riv Reader (from 2005 or so) where they introduced
>> the concept of 'Country Bikes'. I think the current Roadini with its wider
>> tyre clearance fits the description to a tee, and looks very much like the
>> Saluki they used to illustrate the concept. Sure, with the proliferation of
>> gravel bikes today, the idea of a 'country bike' as a category has become
>> reality. But by 2005 standards, I'd say the current Roadini is a country
>> bike. The world hasn't changed that much since then - just our perceptions
>> of it and what we think is necessary.
>>
>> On Saturday, 22 March 2025 at 23:44:16 UTC+10:30 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice dash
>>> of trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If I take it
>>> slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, actually.  On the
>>> same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt bars, 2.2" tires, and it
>>> was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner hard with a lot of
>>> confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini (with my skills, or lack
>>> thereof).  What's great though, is that on the Roadini I can ride almost
>>> anywhere, comfortably as I'm alternating between paved, unpaved, which is a
>>> lot of fun.  When I want to hit my local trails (90% unpaved), I would
>>> definitely reach for the Fargo.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:
>>>
 I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, some
 of them anyways.

 It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was
 pervasive.  One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 5-10
 days, and with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  I
 dropped pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  90% of
 the ride was on the trails.  I really noticed the difference with the lower
 pressure, from say 35-40psi which I would normally run these tires when 90%
 paved.  It made the ride very smooth (not 2.2" tire smooth).  What was
 great was the comfort on the bike; riding trails only took a little of that
 away with the extra upper body effort required and more climbs/descents and
 posture that I don't often use on paved surfaces.  I was surprised that the
 braking was more than adequate, and really enjoy being in the drops on
 descents for extra control.  The tires were probably the only downside,
 partly due to my lack of skill.  I had a bit of a rear-tire slide a couple
 of times on slick turns, but once I realized it was happening I rode more
 cautiously rest of the time.  I think with 42-45 aggressive tread this bike
 would be more than capable for the trails in my area.

 P.S. one of my other posts is about alt/swept bars that I'm putting on
 my Salsa Fargo.  I look forward to comparing performance between the bikes,
 and comfort (on these trails).

 On Saturday, March 15, 2025 at 10:48:03 AM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:

> I, too, think five is an ideal, manageable number so I’ve been settled
> on it for quite some time as well.
>
> That said, there remains an inclination to hoard spare mechanicals to
> keep them running, however, so I am not completely off the hook. A bit of
> the hoarding instinct I’ve embraced. If you’re patient and keep looking 
> you
> can pick up the good stuff—known as NOS—our favorite acronym.
>
> And all but one are 9-speed so that keeps things simple. I found a guy
> quite a while ago now who had a seemingly bottomless supply of low-normal
> 9-speed derailers…so I kept buying. It got a little out of hand but that’s
> OK. I enjoy taking inventory and oogling over the results o

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[dane...@gmail.com]

I was riding my Roadini down a muddy double track with some rocky sections 
yesterday with 32s and was also surprised by how smooth it felt.  I'm 
chalking it up to the fork flex.  I go back and forth but Ive been really 
enjoying riding everything with the skinnier tires.  

Nice fixed gear Patrick.  I'm building something up somewhat similar for as 
cheap as possible soon.  I miss riding fixed. 

-Dan

On Saturday, March 22, 2025 at 8:53:31 PM UTC-4 Dan wrote:

> I share your thoughts Jay. I took my Roadini on a mostly-road ride today, 
> but mixed in some mellow gravel trails and singletrack. The bike is 
> unperturbed. Is it a mountain bike? No. But it can go anywhere. I'm 
> reminded of some words by Will from Riv where he said the Roadini opened up 
> his riding to be able to take the singletrack shortcut to bypass a busy 
> road, etc. It's true.
>
> I recently read an old Riv Reader (from 2005 or so) where they introduced 
> the concept of 'Country Bikes'. I think the current Roadini with its wider 
> tyre clearance fits the description to a tee, and looks very much like the 
> Saluki they used to illustrate the concept. Sure, with the proliferation of 
> gravel bikes today, the idea of a 'country bike' as a category has become 
> reality. But by 2005 standards, I'd say the current Roadini is a country 
> bike. The world hasn't changed that much since then - just our perceptions 
> of it and what we think is necessary.
>
> On Saturday, 22 March 2025 at 23:44:16 UTC+10:30 Jay wrote:
>
>> I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice dash 
>> of trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If I take it 
>> slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, actually.  On the 
>> same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt bars, 2.2" tires, and it 
>> was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner hard with a lot of 
>> confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini (with my skills, or lack 
>> thereof).  What's great though, is that on the Roadini I can ride almost 
>> anywhere, comfortably as I'm alternating between paved, unpaved, which is a 
>> lot of fun.  When I want to hit my local trails (90% unpaved), I would 
>> definitely reach for the Fargo.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, some of 
>>> them anyways.
>>>
>>> It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was 
>>> pervasive.  One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 5-10 
>>> days, and with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  I 
>>> dropped pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  90% of 
>>> the ride was on the trails.  I really noticed the difference with the lower 
>>> pressure, from say 35-40psi which I would normally run these tires when 90% 
>>> paved.  It made the ride very smooth (not 2.2" tire smooth).  What was 
>>> great was the comfort on the bike; riding trails only took a little of that 
>>> away with the extra upper body effort required and more climbs/descents and 
>>> posture that I don't often use on paved surfaces.  I was surprised that the 
>>> braking was more than adequate, and really enjoy being in the drops on 
>>> descents for extra control.  The tires were probably the only downside, 
>>> partly due to my lack of skill.  I had a bit of a rear-tire slide a couple 
>>> of times on slick turns, but once I realized it was happening I rode more 
>>> cautiously rest of the time.  I think with 42-45 aggressive tread this bike 
>>> would be more than capable for the trails in my area.
>>>
>>> P.S. one of my other posts is about alt/swept bars that I'm putting on 
>>> my Salsa Fargo.  I look forward to comparing performance between the bikes, 
>>> and comfort (on these trails).
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 15, 2025 at 10:48:03 AM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:
>>>
 I, too, think five is an ideal, manageable number so I’ve been settled 
 on it for quite some time as well. 

 That said, there remains an inclination to hoard spare mechanicals to 
 keep them running, however, so I am not completely off the hook. A bit of 
 the hoarding instinct I’ve embraced. If you’re patient and keep looking 
 you 
 can pick up the good stuff—known as NOS—our favorite acronym. 

 And all but one are 9-speed so that keeps things simple. I found a guy 
 quite a while ago now who had a seemingly bottomless supply of low-normal 
 9-speed derailers…so I kept buying. It got a little out of hand but that’s 
 OK. I enjoy taking inventory and oogling over the results of my 
 obsessions. 
 These days most bike dealers are of no use to me, so I take care of myself.

 I do, however, pine for the days we could pop into  the local shop to 
 survey the beautiful, colorful steel hanging from the rafters and all 
 those 
 Campy boxes with the world stripes neatly in

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Dan]

I share your thoughts Jay. I took my Roadini on a mostly-road ride today, 
but mixed in some mellow gravel trails and singletrack. The bike is 
unperturbed. Is it a mountain bike? No. But it can go anywhere. I'm 
reminded of some words by Will from Riv where he said the Roadini opened up 
his riding to be able to take the singletrack shortcut to bypass a busy 
road, etc. It's true.

I recently read an old Riv Reader (from 2005 or so) where they introduced 
the concept of 'Country Bikes'. I think the current Roadini with its wider 
tyre clearance fits the description to a tee, and looks very much like the 
Saluki they used to illustrate the concept. Sure, with the proliferation of 
gravel bikes today, the idea of a 'country bike' as a category has become 
reality. But by 2005 standards, I'd say the current Roadini is a country 
bike. The world hasn't changed that much since then - just our perceptions 
of it and what we think is necessary.

On Saturday, 22 March 2025 at 23:44:16 UTC+10:30 Jay wrote:

> I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice dash of 
> trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If I take it 
> slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, actually.  On the 
> same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt bars, 2.2" tires, and it 
> was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner hard with a lot of 
> confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini (with my skills, or lack 
> thereof).  What's great though, is that on the Roadini I can ride almost 
> anywhere, comfortably as I'm alternating between paved, unpaved, which is a 
> lot of fun.  When I want to hit my local trails (90% unpaved), I would 
> definitely reach for the Fargo.
>
> On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:
>
>> I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, some of 
>> them anyways.
>>
>> It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was 
>> pervasive.  One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 5-10 
>> days, and with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  I 
>> dropped pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  90% of 
>> the ride was on the trails.  I really noticed the difference with the lower 
>> pressure, from say 35-40psi which I would normally run these tires when 90% 
>> paved.  It made the ride very smooth (not 2.2" tire smooth).  What was 
>> great was the comfort on the bike; riding trails only took a little of that 
>> away with the extra upper body effort required and more climbs/descents and 
>> posture that I don't often use on paved surfaces.  I was surprised that the 
>> braking was more than adequate, and really enjoy being in the drops on 
>> descents for extra control.  The tires were probably the only downside, 
>> partly due to my lack of skill.  I had a bit of a rear-tire slide a couple 
>> of times on slick turns, but once I realized it was happening I rode more 
>> cautiously rest of the time.  I think with 42-45 aggressive tread this bike 
>> would be more than capable for the trails in my area.
>>
>> P.S. one of my other posts is about alt/swept bars that I'm putting on my 
>> Salsa Fargo.  I look forward to comparing performance between the bikes, 
>> and comfort (on these trails).
>>
>> On Saturday, March 15, 2025 at 10:48:03 AM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:
>>
>>> I, too, think five is an ideal, manageable number so I’ve been settled 
>>> on it for quite some time as well. 
>>>
>>> That said, there remains an inclination to hoard spare mechanicals to 
>>> keep them running, however, so I am not completely off the hook. A bit of 
>>> the hoarding instinct I’ve embraced. If you’re patient and keep looking you 
>>> can pick up the good stuff—known as NOS—our favorite acronym. 
>>>
>>> And all but one are 9-speed so that keeps things simple. I found a guy 
>>> quite a while ago now who had a seemingly bottomless supply of low-normal 
>>> 9-speed derailers…so I kept buying. It got a little out of hand but that’s 
>>> OK. I enjoy taking inventory and oogling over the results of my obsessions. 
>>> These days most bike dealers are of no use to me, so I take care of myself.
>>>
>>> I do, however, pine for the days we could pop into  the local shop to 
>>> survey the beautiful, colorful steel hanging from the rafters and all those 
>>> Campy boxes with the world stripes neatly inventoried. Not many of these 
>>> around any more. Andy Muzi’s Yellow Jersey in Madison WI was one I could 
>>> never pass by without stopping. 
>>>
>>> Fortunately there’s a shop nearby that still comes close. The owner has 
>>> a thing for titanium so he has a stunning collection (for sale) of obscure 
>>> quirky bespoke ti bikes with wide tires, fenders and all the trimmings. As 
>>> that does raise my blood pressure in a most enjoyable way I always drop in 
>>> when I happen to ride by. 
>>>
>>> Jock
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 12:09 PM Brady Smith  
>>> wrote:

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Jay]

I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice dash of 
trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If I take it 
slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, actually.  On the 
same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt bars, 2.2" tires, and it 
was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner hard with a lot of 
confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini (with my skills, or lack 
thereof).  What's great though, is that on the Roadini I can ride almost 
anywhere, comfortably as I'm alternating between paved, unpaved, which is a 
lot of fun.  When I want to hit my local trails (90% unpaved), I would 
definitely reach for the Fargo.

On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-4 Jay wrote:

> I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, some of 
> them anyways.
>
> It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was pervasive. 
>  One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 5-10 days, and 
> with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  I dropped 
> pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  90% of the 
> ride was on the trails.  I really noticed the difference with the lower 
> pressure, from say 35-40psi which I would normally run these tires when 90% 
> paved.  It made the ride very smooth (not 2.2" tire smooth).  What was 
> great was the comfort on the bike; riding trails only took a little of that 
> away with the extra upper body effort required and more climbs/descents and 
> posture that I don't often use on paved surfaces.  I was surprised that the 
> braking was more than adequate, and really enjoy being in the drops on 
> descents for extra control.  The tires were probably the only downside, 
> partly due to my lack of skill.  I had a bit of a rear-tire slide a couple 
> of times on slick turns, but once I realized it was happening I rode more 
> cautiously rest of the time.  I think with 42-45 aggressive tread this bike 
> would be more than capable for the trails in my area.
>
> P.S. one of my other posts is about alt/swept bars that I'm putting on my 
> Salsa Fargo.  I look forward to comparing performance between the bikes, 
> and comfort (on these trails).
>
> On Saturday, March 15, 2025 at 10:48:03 AM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> I, too, think five is an ideal, manageable number so I’ve been settled on 
>> it for quite some time as well. 
>>
>> That said, there remains an inclination to hoard spare mechanicals to 
>> keep them running, however, so I am not completely off the hook. A bit of 
>> the hoarding instinct I’ve embraced. If you’re patient and keep looking you 
>> can pick up the good stuff—known as NOS—our favorite acronym. 
>>
>> And all but one are 9-speed so that keeps things simple. I found a guy 
>> quite a while ago now who had a seemingly bottomless supply of low-normal 
>> 9-speed derailers…so I kept buying. It got a little out of hand but that’s 
>> OK. I enjoy taking inventory and oogling over the results of my obsessions. 
>> These days most bike dealers are of no use to me, so I take care of myself.
>>
>> I do, however, pine for the days we could pop into  the local shop to 
>> survey the beautiful, colorful steel hanging from the rafters and all those 
>> Campy boxes with the world stripes neatly inventoried. Not many of these 
>> around any more. Andy Muzi’s Yellow Jersey in Madison WI was one I could 
>> never pass by without stopping. 
>>
>> Fortunately there’s a shop nearby that still comes close. The owner has a 
>> thing for titanium so he has a stunning collection (for sale) of obscure 
>> quirky bespoke ti bikes with wide tires, fenders and all the trimmings. As 
>> that does raise my blood pressure in a most enjoyable way I always drop in 
>> when I happen to ride by. 
>>
>> Jock
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 12:09 PM Brady Smith  wrote:
>>
>>> I've settled on five as my ideal stable: 
>>>
>>> 1) E-cargo bike. It's a car replacement. Gets the most miles of any 
>>> bike. 
>>>
>>> 2) My Roadini as general road bike. 
>>>
>>> 3) BMC Monster Cross as rando/light touring bike
>>>
>>> 4) La Cabra--in theory it's my gravel/forest road bike but practically 
>>> it's my city bike when I'm riding with my child or want to carry stuff 
>>> without e-assist. There's also a few mixed surface rides in my area for 
>>> which it is pretty much perfect.
>>>
>>> 5) Specialized Fuse Comp: I tried to make singletrack work on the La 
>>> Cabra for a while. It was fine, but this is much better. Plus I got it for 
>>> 50% off. 
>>>
>>> I could let the La Cabra go and still be fine, but it's a fun bike for 
>>> what it is, and it adds a backup if for some reason the Fuse goes down. 
>>> I've occasionally thought about a modern carbon road bike as I get more 
>>> into the local club scene, but I keep up just fine on the Roadini, and 
>>> other riders are always checking it out, which I enjoy. Other than the 
>>> cargo bike, I tend to use e

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Jay]

I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, some of 
them anyways.

It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was pervasive. 
 One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 5-10 days, and 
with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  I dropped 
pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  90% of the 
ride was on the trails.  I really noticed the difference with the lower 
pressure, from say 35-40psi which I would normally run these tires when 90% 
paved.  It made the ride very smooth (not 2.2" tire smooth).  What was 
great was the comfort on the bike; riding trails only took a little of that 
away with the extra upper body effort required and more climbs/descents and 
posture that I don't often use on paved surfaces.  I was surprised that the 
braking was more than adequate, and really enjoy being in the drops on 
descents for extra control.  The tires were probably the only downside, 
partly due to my lack of skill.  I had a bit of a rear-tire slide a couple 
of times on slick turns, but once I realized it was happening I rode more 
cautiously rest of the time.  I think with 42-45 aggressive tread this bike 
would be more than capable for the trails in my area.

P.S. one of my other posts is about alt/swept bars that I'm putting on my 
Salsa Fargo.  I look forward to comparing performance between the bikes, 
and comfort (on these trails).

On Saturday, March 15, 2025 at 10:48:03 AM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:

> I, too, think five is an ideal, manageable number so I’ve been settled on 
> it for quite some time as well. 
>
> That said, there remains an inclination to hoard spare mechanicals to keep 
> them running, however, so I am not completely off the hook. A bit of the 
> hoarding instinct I’ve embraced. If you’re patient and keep looking you can 
> pick up the good stuff—known as NOS—our favorite acronym. 
>
> And all but one are 9-speed so that keeps things simple. I found a guy 
> quite a while ago now who had a seemingly bottomless supply of low-normal 
> 9-speed derailers…so I kept buying. It got a little out of hand but that’s 
> OK. I enjoy taking inventory and oogling over the results of my obsessions. 
> These days most bike dealers are of no use to me, so I take care of myself.
>
> I do, however, pine for the days we could pop into  the local shop to 
> survey the beautiful, colorful steel hanging from the rafters and all those 
> Campy boxes with the world stripes neatly inventoried. Not many of these 
> around any more. Andy Muzi’s Yellow Jersey in Madison WI was one I could 
> never pass by without stopping. 
>
> Fortunately there’s a shop nearby that still comes close. The owner has a 
> thing for titanium so he has a stunning collection (for sale) of obscure 
> quirky bespoke ti bikes with wide tires, fenders and all the trimmings. As 
> that does raise my blood pressure in a most enjoyable way I always drop in 
> when I happen to ride by. 
>
> Jock
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 12:09 PM Brady Smith  wrote:
>
>> I've settled on five as my ideal stable: 
>>
>> 1) E-cargo bike. It's a car replacement. Gets the most miles of any bike. 
>>
>> 2) My Roadini as general road bike. 
>>
>> 3) BMC Monster Cross as rando/light touring bike
>>
>> 4) La Cabra--in theory it's my gravel/forest road bike but practically 
>> it's my city bike when I'm riding with my child or want to carry stuff 
>> without e-assist. There's also a few mixed surface rides in my area for 
>> which it is pretty much perfect.
>>
>> 5) Specialized Fuse Comp: I tried to make singletrack work on the La 
>> Cabra for a while. It was fine, but this is much better. Plus I got it for 
>> 50% off. 
>>
>> I could let the La Cabra go and still be fine, but it's a fun bike for 
>> what it is, and it adds a backup if for some reason the Fuse goes down. 
>> I've occasionally thought about a modern carbon road bike as I get more 
>> into the local club scene, but I keep up just fine on the Roadini, and 
>> other riders are always checking it out, which I enjoy. Other than the 
>> cargo bike, I tend to use each of these very seasonally, so maintenance is 
>> rarely an issue for more than two bikes at a time. 
>> On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 12:42:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The usual cycle goes like this: get disgusted with too many bikes; sell 
>>> ‘em off and keep only the favorite; learn in 6 months that the favorite 
>>> won’t do [insert special riding conditions here] as well as x or y, so buy 
>>> a replacement or several.
>>>
>>> Me, I don’t like excess, which is why I’ve decided that 3 bikes is the 
>>> natural if not statutory minimum: road bike that is equipped to pedal as 
>>> easily and comfortably and fast as possible on pavement; a road bike with 
>>> carrying capacity, fenders, lights, and tires that can handle light dirt; 
>>> and a dirt road bike that is nice on pavement. On this foundation you can 
>>> expand in any direction you care 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[John Dewey]

I, too, think five is an ideal, manageable number so I’ve been settled on
it for quite some time as well.

That said, there remains an inclination to hoard spare mechanicals to keep
them running, however, so I am not completely off the hook. A bit of the
hoarding instinct I’ve embraced. If you’re patient and keep looking you can
pick up the good stuff—known as NOS—our favorite acronym.

And all but one are 9-speed so that keeps things simple. I found a guy
quite a while ago now who had a seemingly bottomless supply of low-normal
9-speed derailers…so I kept buying. It got a little out of hand but that’s
OK. I enjoy taking inventory and oogling over the results of my obsessions.
These days most bike dealers are of no use to me, so I take care of myself.

I do, however, pine for the days we could pop into  the local shop to
survey the beautiful, colorful steel hanging from the rafters and all those
Campy boxes with the world stripes neatly inventoried. Not many of these
around any more. Andy Muzi’s Yellow Jersey in Madison WI was one I could
never pass by without stopping.

Fortunately there’s a shop nearby that still comes close. The owner has a
thing for titanium so he has a stunning collection (for sale) of obscure
quirky bespoke ti bikes with wide tires, fenders and all the trimmings. As
that does raise my blood pressure in a most enjoyable way I always drop in
when I happen to ride by.

Jock

On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 12:09 PM Brady Smith  wrote:

> I've settled on five as my ideal stable:
>
> 1) E-cargo bike. It's a car replacement. Gets the most miles of any bike.
>
> 2) My Roadini as general road bike.
>
> 3) BMC Monster Cross as rando/light touring bike
>
> 4) La Cabra--in theory it's my gravel/forest road bike but practically
> it's my city bike when I'm riding with my child or want to carry stuff
> without e-assist. There's also a few mixed surface rides in my area for
> which it is pretty much perfect.
>
> 5) Specialized Fuse Comp: I tried to make singletrack work on the La Cabra
> for a while. It was fine, but this is much better. Plus I got it for 50%
> off.
>
> I could let the La Cabra go and still be fine, but it's a fun bike for
> what it is, and it adds a backup if for some reason the Fuse goes down.
> I've occasionally thought about a modern carbon road bike as I get more
> into the local club scene, but I keep up just fine on the Roadini, and
> other riders are always checking it out, which I enjoy. Other than the
> cargo bike, I tend to use each of these very seasonally, so maintenance is
> rarely an issue for more than two bikes at a time.
> On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 12:42:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The usual cycle goes like this: get disgusted with too many bikes; sell
>> ‘em off and keep only the favorite; learn in 6 months that the favorite
>> won’t do [insert special riding conditions here] as well as x or y, so buy
>> a replacement or several.
>>
>> Me, I don’t like excess, which is why I’ve decided that 3 bikes is the
>> natural if not statutory minimum: road bike that is equipped to pedal as
>> easily and comfortably and fast as possible on pavement; a road bike with
>> carrying capacity, fenders, lights, and tires that can handle light dirt;
>> and a dirt road bike that is nice on pavement. On this foundation you can
>> expand in any direction you care to.
>>
>> This scenario avoids the “perfect bike” syndrome — unattractive, I agree
>> —  by having 3 perfect bikes.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 3:14 PM Nicolas H  wrote:
>>
> Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less with
>>> more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea of
>>> having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive for
>>> some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm
>>> trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk
>>> myself out of buying an Atlantis.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nic
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>>>
>> Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can
 indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city
 riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that
 isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n'
 Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability.
 Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't
 accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour
 without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's
 locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm
 surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier
 up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine.
 Either way, good on you, Jay.

 John
 Oregon

 On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[ascpgh]

I too abide with a simple stable. I have a road bike that's proven able to 
leave the pavement, another bike built intentionally for any road or path 
and an unattractive rackbait commuter. I've been happily riding along with 
each in their places.

My satisfaction with my Disc Trucker as a commuter is wearing thin while 
riding through a year long utility renovation destruction / reconstruction 
project including the last mile and a half of my commute to work. The 
utility has be allowed to get away with leaving an utter moonscape of a 
lane. It looks scary in the dark with deep humps and undulations but 
thankfully few if any edge drops risky to tubes and rims.

That ride is so jarring that getting through it is a relief. Wednesday I 
took a lateral jerk through my bike that impinged my left Sciatic nerve and 
made my day a huge unresolvable pain. I do ride through that mostly out of 
the saddle to suspend myself but between pulses of dense traffic released 
by stoplights and the intermittent construction equipment and trucks at the 
curb I was less attuned to the exact wheel path of my wheels and staying 
alert so as not to not be pushed out of lane and trapped at the curb when 
coming to an obstructing vehicle. 

My first experienced negative of this commuter in my use. I long 
appreciated under biking because I am not hard on equipment and appreciated 
riding my RB-1 on 700 x 28s on gravel and dirt in the '80s-'90s for a more 
supple and accurate steering ride. I appreciated my MB-0's ride and 
steering acuity compared to all the riding brutality suspension forks being 
added to rigid geometry bikes were  introducing. I could pick my downhill 
lines so accurately to avoid tire and rim trashing bits and reach the 
bottom of downhills way ahed of newer riders on their suspension forks who 
were facilitated in slamming through any consequences of poorer 
line-picking on the way down.  They just sledge hammered their way down and 
got away with it because the forks travel. 

Skill may be equalled by equipment advances and some never having the 
opportunity to learn them because of it but they are not replaced if they 
matter to you and are rewarding to retain and practice. I'm still happy 
with my stable of three and will alter my riding to accommodate the commute 
since it isn't to the point of riding another bike. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 2:42:43 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The usual cycle goes like this: get disgusted with too many bikes; sell 
> ‘em off and keep only the favorite; learn in 6 months that the favorite 
> won’t do [insert special riding conditions here] as well as x or y, so buy 
> a replacement or several.
>
> Me, I don’t like excess, which is why I’ve decided that 3 bikes is the 
> natural if not statutory minimum: road bike that is equipped to pedal as 
> easily and comfortably and fast as possible on pavement; a road bike with 
> carrying capacity, fenders, lights, and tires that can handle light dirt; 
> and a dirt road bike that is nice on pavement. On this foundation you can 
> expand in any direction you care to.
>
> This scenario avoids the “perfect bike” syndrome — unattractive, I agree — 
>  by having 3 perfect bikes.
>
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 3:14 PM Nicolas H  wrote:
>
>> Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less 
>> with more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea 
>> of having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive 
>> for some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm 
>> trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk 
>> myself out of buying an Atlantis.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nic
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>>
>>> Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can 
>>> indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city 
>>> riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that 
>>> isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n' 
>>> Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability. 
>>> Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't 
>>> accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour 
>>> without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's 
>>> locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm 
>>> surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier 
>>> up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine. 
>>> Either way, good on you, Jay.
>>>
>>> John
>>> Oregon
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>
 Lot's of great info shared - thank you!

 My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my 
 Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.

 As an examp

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Piaw Na]

On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 8:14:01 AM UTC-7 nics...@gmail.com wrote:

Deep down, I don't think any of us want just one bike and the reason we 
think we do is because we want it to save us from ourselves, if that 
makes any sense


That may make sense for you, but not for me. When I moved to Munich in 
2007, I moved with just one bike, the custom Road bike I'd just gotten 
delivered. When my girlfriend visited for 3 months we brought over the 
tandem, which made for 2 bikes. I never felt the need for more bikes, and 
when my girlfriend moved back to the USA the tandem just sat unused taking 
up space. After I moved back to the US I lived with just that one road bike 
and sold the tandem. It's nice to have only one bike to maintain, and it 
definitely saved all the work involved in trying to decide which bike to 
take. It was only after I  broke that ti frame twice (mind you in between 
it was 10 years) that I decided that I "deserved" a back up road frame (the 
Roadini) which is currently set up as a gravel bike. Now in between I 
bought a mountain bike after my wife and I had kids, and I now have a 
tandem/triplet/quad convertible for towing kids around, and of course the 
wife and kids all have their own bikes so now we have a garage full of 
bikes, which doesn't actually feel all that convenient.

For myself, I wouldn't mind going down to just one bike (the Roadini) and 
maybe just have a couple of sets of wheels to swap around for different 
needs. Having fewer bikes to maintain is great.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Brady Smith]

I've settled on five as my ideal stable: 

1) E-cargo bike. It's a car replacement. Gets the most miles of any bike. 

2) My Roadini as general road bike. 

3) BMC Monster Cross as rando/light touring bike

4) La Cabra--in theory it's my gravel/forest road bike but practically it's 
my city bike when I'm riding with my child or want to carry stuff without 
e-assist. There's also a few mixed surface rides in my area for which it is 
pretty much perfect.

5) Specialized Fuse Comp: I tried to make singletrack work on the La Cabra 
for a while. It was fine, but this is much better. Plus I got it for 50% 
off. 

I could let the La Cabra go and still be fine, but it's a fun bike for what 
it is, and it adds a backup if for some reason the Fuse goes down. I've 
occasionally thought about a modern carbon road bike as I get more into the 
local club scene, but I keep up just fine on the Roadini, and other riders 
are always checking it out, which I enjoy. Other than the cargo bike, I 
tend to use each of these very seasonally, so maintenance is rarely an 
issue for more than two bikes at a time. 
On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 12:42:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The usual cycle goes like this: get disgusted with too many bikes; sell 
> ‘em off and keep only the favorite; learn in 6 months that the favorite 
> won’t do [insert special riding conditions here] as well as x or y, so buy 
> a replacement or several.
>
> Me, I don’t like excess, which is why I’ve decided that 3 bikes is the 
> natural if not statutory minimum: road bike that is equipped to pedal as 
> easily and comfortably and fast as possible on pavement; a road bike with 
> carrying capacity, fenders, lights, and tires that can handle light dirt; 
> and a dirt road bike that is nice on pavement. On this foundation you can 
> expand in any direction you care to.
>
> This scenario avoids the “perfect bike” syndrome — unattractive, I agree — 
>  by having 3 perfect bikes.
>
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 3:14 PM Nicolas H  wrote:
>
>> Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less 
>> with more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea 
>> of having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive 
>> for some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm 
>> trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk 
>> myself out of buying an Atlantis.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nic
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>>
>>> Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can 
>>> indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city 
>>> riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that 
>>> isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n' 
>>> Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability. 
>>> Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't 
>>> accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour 
>>> without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's 
>>> locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm 
>>> surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier 
>>> up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine. 
>>> Either way, good on you, Jay.
>>>
>>> John
>>> Oregon
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>
 Lot's of great info shared - thank you!

 My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my 
 Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.

 As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly 
 with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have 
 had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini 
 is 
 so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The 
 frame 
 flex is noticeable, in a really good way.

 My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with 
 technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've 
 only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike 
 in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around 
 a 
 lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides 
 in 
 the winter, not so good.

 I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my 
 *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two 
 existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of 
 trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends; 
 and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter 
 studded 
 tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to t

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Patrick Moore]

I sympathize with Piaw’s opinion; yes, maintaining just one bike is a
relief; particularly if that bike is a fixed gear with just one brake — a
big difference in maintenance! Heck, even IGH fixed hubs are a complication.

I tried the “one bike/many wheelsets” model 30 years ago and it didn’t work
for me; I like riding a bike that is if not perfect for then at least very
well adapted to the conditions. OTOH again, there was Jobst Brandt who
didn’t let 28 mm tubulars and 5 or 6 speed freewheels stop him from riding
everything.

*Chacun(e) a son/sa gout(e). *

That said, if you held a gun to my head and said, “Choose ONE!”, I’d choose
the gofast fixed gear and devise hacks for light off road and rain and
loads and night riding.

On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 10:52 AM Piaw Na  wrote:

> On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 8:14:01 AM UTC-7 nics...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Deep down, I don't think any of us want just one bike and the reason we
> think we do is because we want it to save us from ourselves, if that
> makes any sense
>
>
> That may make sense for you, but not for me. When I moved to Munich in
> 2007, I moved with just one bike, the custom Road bike I'd just gotten
> delivered. When my girlfriend visited for 3 months we brought over the
> tandem, which made for 2 bikes. I never felt the need for more bikes, and
> when my girlfriend moved back to the USA the tandem just sat unused taking
> up space. After I moved back to the US I lived with just that one road bike
> and sold the tandem. It's nice to have only one bike to maintain, and it
> definitely saved all the work involved in trying to decide which bike to
> take. It was only after I  broke that ti frame twice (mind you in between
> it was 10 years) that I decided that I "deserved" a back up road frame (the
> Roadini) which is currently set up as a gravel bike. Now in between I
> bought a mountain bike after my wife and I had kids, and I now have a
> tandem/triplet/quad convertible for towing kids around, and of course the
> wife and kids all have their own bikes so now we have a garage full of
> bikes, which doesn't actually feel all that convenient.
>
> For myself, I wouldn't mind going down to just one bike (the Roadini) and
> maybe just have a couple of sets of wheels to swap around for different
> needs. Having fewer bikes to maintain is great.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b11302f5-c373-4298-941a-8ec3b6b04748n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Patrick Moore]

The usual cycle goes like this: get disgusted with too many bikes; sell ‘em
off and keep only the favorite; learn in 6 months that the favorite won’t
do [insert special riding conditions here] as well as x or y, so buy a
replacement or several.

Me, I don’t like excess, which is why I’ve decided that 3 bikes is the
natural if not statutory minimum: road bike that is equipped to pedal as
easily and comfortably and fast as possible on pavement; a road bike with
carrying capacity, fenders, lights, and tires that can handle light dirt;
and a dirt road bike that is nice on pavement. On this foundation you can
expand in any direction you care to.

This scenario avoids the “perfect bike” syndrome — unattractive, I agree —
 by having 3 perfect bikes.

On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 3:14 PM Nicolas H  wrote:

> Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less with
> more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea of
> having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive for
> some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm
> trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk
> myself out of buying an Atlantis.
>
> Thanks,
> Nic
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>
>> Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can
>> indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city
>> riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that
>> isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n'
>> Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability.
>> Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't
>> accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour
>> without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's
>> locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm
>> surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier
>> up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine.
>> Either way, good on you, Jay.
>>
>> John
>> Oregon
>>
>> On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> Lot's of great info shared - thank you!
>>>
>>> My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my
>>> Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.
>>>
>>> As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly
>>> with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have
>>> had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini is
>>> so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The frame
>>> flex is noticeable, in a really good way.
>>>
>>> My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with
>>> technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've
>>> only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike
>>> in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around a
>>> lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides in
>>> the winter, not so good.
>>>
>>> I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my
>>> *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two
>>> existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of
>>> trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends;
>>> and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter studded
>>> tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to the salty
>>> roads (even though I clean my Fargo after every ride), plus the rim brakes.
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 5:53:20 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 TRAIL:
 Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo
 is almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes
 with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I
 had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars
 too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with
 drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then it’s sketchy.
 Now that it has Billie bars (I've also used Simworks getaround and ahearne
 MAP) those same descents are fun. The geometry of both bikes can handle
 trail riding if you are skilled and comfortable with that stuff. Biggest
 impact to the trail riding experience will be cockpit and wheel/tire
 choice. Also if you weigh 175lbs or more and only want one of these two
 bikes, I’d say Sam all day. Roadini flexes a lot for me. I don’t think I
 knew what flex was until pushing myself and my Roadini.

 ROAD:
 I don’t have any carbon or aluminum road bike experience to compare to.
 Compared to 80s-90s steel road bikes with 25mm 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Nicolas H]

Piaw, I think you just proved my point. The idea of having one bike is
eternally appealing to most people but our actions, for one reason or
another, tend to run counter to that goal. Why? Because, I don't think you
really want one bike lol. And there's nothing wrong with that :)

Thanks,
Nic


On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 9:52 AM Piaw Na  wrote:

> On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 8:14:01 AM UTC-7 nics...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Deep down, I don't think any of us want just one bike and the reason we
> think we do is because we want it to save us from ourselves, if that
> makes any sense
>
>
> That may make sense for you, but not for me. When I moved to Munich in
> 2007, I moved with just one bike, the custom Road bike I'd just gotten
> delivered. When my girlfriend visited for 3 months we brought over the
> tandem, which made for 2 bikes. I never felt the need for more bikes, and
> when my girlfriend moved back to the USA the tandem just sat unused taking
> up space. After I moved back to the US I lived with just that one road bike
> and sold the tandem. It's nice to have only one bike to maintain, and it
> definitely saved all the work involved in trying to decide which bike to
> take. It was only after I  broke that ti frame twice (mind you in between
> it was 10 years) that I decided that I "deserved" a back up road frame (the
> Roadini) which is currently set up as a gravel bike. Now in between I
> bought a mountain bike after my wife and I had kids, and I now have a
> tandem/triplet/quad convertible for towing kids around, and of course the
> wife and kids all have their own bikes so now we have a garage full of
> bikes, which doesn't actually feel all that convenient.
>
> For myself, I wouldn't mind going down to just one bike (the Roadini) and
> maybe just have a couple of sets of wheels to swap around for different
> needs. Having fewer bikes to maintain is great.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b11302f5-c373-4298-941a-8ec3b6b04748n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Jay]

What you said makes sense 'nicseve1'.  For me though, it's less about 
underbiking and fear of skills on where I would ride the Roadini, but more 
about comfort.  I have a history of aches/pains that I've spent so much 
timing dealing with that my priority is always comfort (anything from 
cockpit set up to plush-ness of the ride and chance of pain on/after the 
ride from being 'beaten up').  I think the Roadini frame has the plush-ness 
for where I want to ride it, I have the cockpit set up comfortably for my 
back/shoulders/neck (and arms/hands) but if I take it on some chunky gravel 
I'm worried that the max tire width may be limiting.

On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 11:14:01 AM UTC-4 nics...@gmail.com wrote:

> Deep down, I don't think any of us want just one bike and the reason we 
> think we do is because we want it to save us from ourselves, if that 
> makes any sense. If I'm going to underbike then I'll take whatever ride I 
> have and deal with the fear and shortcomings head on. Otherwise, I'll fill 
> the stable out with more specific bikes, you know what I mean. I personally 
> have been taking the Roadini everywhere and when the fear and concerns hit 
> they have more to do with my inexperience as a cyclist than the 
> shortcomings of the ride. Maybe this is all too deep but hopefully some of 
> you can catch what I'm trying to say. 
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 3:34 AM Ryan Mulcahy  wrote:
>
>> I'd say the Hilsen is pretty close to that bike for me, though I mainly 
>> use it on roads. (I'm tempted to add a Hillborne, but wish they would bump 
>> the clearance a little bit--right now, save the brakes, it's almost exactly 
>> the same as the AHH.) In the non-Riv family, the Crust Bombora is hard to 
>> beat, esp with 2 wheelsets: 48 slicks for the roads, 2.2s for trails. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 12, 2025 at 5:23:25 PM UTC-4 brenton...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sam Hillborne is that bike. I had it as my only bike for three years. I 
>>> only built a Roadini because I had an extra cockpit, extra wheelset, and 
>>> found a frameset in my preferred color with brakes for $1100. 
>>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2025, at 2:14 PM, Nicolas H  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less 
>>> with more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea 
>>> of having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive 
>>> for some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm 
>>> trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk 
>>> myself out of buying an Atlantis.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nic
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>>>
 Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can 
 indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means 
 city 
 riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that 
 isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n' 
 Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability. 
 Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't 
 accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour 
 without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's 
 locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm 
 surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier 
 up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine. 
 Either way, good on you, Jay.

 John
 Oregon

 On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> Lot's of great info shared - thank you!
>
> My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my 
> Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.
>
> As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly 
> with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have 
> had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini 
> is 
> so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The 
> frame 
> flex is noticeable, in a really good way.
>
> My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, 
> with technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  
> I've only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the 
> bike in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving 
> around a lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long 
> road 
> rides in the winter, not so good.
>
> I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my 
> *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two 
> existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of 
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Nicolas H]

Deep down, I don't think any of us want just one bike and the reason we
think we do is because we want it to save us from ourselves, if that
makes any sense. If I'm going to underbike then I'll take whatever ride I
have and deal with the fear and shortcomings head on. Otherwise, I'll fill
the stable out with more specific bikes, you know what I mean. I personally
have been taking the Roadini everywhere and when the fear and concerns hit
they have more to do with my inexperience as a cyclist than the
shortcomings of the ride. Maybe this is all too deep but hopefully some of
you can catch what I'm trying to say.



On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 3:34 AM Ryan Mulcahy  wrote:

> I'd say the Hilsen is pretty close to that bike for me, though I mainly
> use it on roads. (I'm tempted to add a Hillborne, but wish they would bump
> the clearance a little bit--right now, save the brakes, it's almost exactly
> the same as the AHH.) In the non-Riv family, the Crust Bombora is hard to
> beat, esp with 2 wheelsets: 48 slicks for the roads, 2.2s for trails.
>
> On Wednesday, March 12, 2025 at 5:23:25 PM UTC-4 brenton...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Sam Hillborne is that bike. I had it as my only bike for three years. I
>> only built a Roadini because I had an extra cockpit, extra wheelset, and
>> found a frameset in my preferred color with brakes for $1100.
>>
>> On Mar 12, 2025, at 2:14 PM, Nicolas H  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less
>> with more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea
>> of having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive
>> for some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm
>> trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk
>> myself out of buying an Atlantis.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nic
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>>
>>> Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can
>>> indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city
>>> riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that
>>> isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n'
>>> Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability.
>>> Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't
>>> accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour
>>> without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's
>>> locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm
>>> surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier
>>> up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine.
>>> Either way, good on you, Jay.
>>>
>>> John
>>> Oregon
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>
 Lot's of great info shared - thank you!

 My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my
 Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.

 As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly
 with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have
 had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini is
 so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The frame
 flex is noticeable, in a really good way.

 My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with
 technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've
 only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike
 in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around a
 lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides in
 the winter, not so good.

 I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my
 *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two
 existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of
 trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends;
 and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter studded
 tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to the salty
 roads (even though I clean my Fargo after every ride), plus the rim brakes.

 On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 5:53:20 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> TRAIL:
> Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo
> is almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes
> with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I
> had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars
> too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with
> drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then i

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Ryan Mulcahy]

I'd say the Hilsen is pretty close to that bike for me, though I mainly use 
it on roads. (I'm tempted to add a Hillborne, but wish they would bump the 
clearance a little bit--right now, save the brakes, it's almost exactly the 
same as the AHH.) In the non-Riv family, the Crust Bombora is hard to beat, 
esp with 2 wheelsets: 48 slicks for the roads, 2.2s for trails. 

On Wednesday, March 12, 2025 at 5:23:25 PM UTC-4 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> Sam Hillborne is that bike. I had it as my only bike for three years. I 
> only built a Roadini because I had an extra cockpit, extra wheelset, and 
> found a frameset in my preferred color with brakes for $1100. 
>
> On Mar 12, 2025, at 2:14 PM, Nicolas H  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less with 
> more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea of 
> having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive for 
> some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm 
> trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk 
> myself out of buying an Atlantis.
>
> Thanks,
> Nic
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>
>> Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can 
>> indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city 
>> riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that 
>> isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n' 
>> Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability. 
>> Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't 
>> accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour 
>> without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's 
>> locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm 
>> surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier 
>> up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine. 
>> Either way, good on you, Jay.
>>
>> John
>> Oregon
>>
>> On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> Lot's of great info shared - thank you!
>>>
>>> My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my 
>>> Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.
>>>
>>> As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly 
>>> with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have 
>>> had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini is 
>>> so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The frame 
>>> flex is noticeable, in a really good way.
>>>
>>> My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with 
>>> technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've 
>>> only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike 
>>> in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around a 
>>> lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides in 
>>> the winter, not so good.
>>>
>>> I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my 
>>> *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two 
>>> existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of 
>>> trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends; 
>>> and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter studded 
>>> tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to the salty 
>>> roads (even though I clean my Fargo after every ride), plus the rim brakes.
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 5:53:20 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 TRAIL:
 Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo 
 is almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes 
 with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I 
 had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars 
 too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with 
 drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then it’s sketchy. 
 Now that it has Billie bars (I've also used Simworks getaround and ahearne 
 MAP) those same descents are fun. The geometry of both bikes can handle 
 trail riding if you are skilled and comfortable with that stuff. Biggest 
 impact to the trail riding experience will be cockpit and wheel/tire 
 choice. Also if you weigh 175lbs or more and only want one of these two 
 bikes, I’d say Sam all day. Roadini flexes a lot for me. I don’t think I 
 knew what flex was until pushing myself and my Roadini. 

 ROAD:
 I don’t have any carbon or aluminum road bike experience to compare to. 
 Compared to 80s-90s steel road bikes with 25mm tires, both Sam and Leo are 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Brenton Eastman]

Sam Hillborne is that bike. I had it as my only bike for three years. I only built a Roadini because I had an extra cockpit, extra wheelset, and found a frameset in my preferred color with brakes for $1100. On Mar 12, 2025, at 2:14 PM, Nicolas H  wrote:Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less with more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea of having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive for some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk myself out of buying an Atlantis.Thanks,NicOn Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n' Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability. Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine. Either way, good on you, Jay.JohnOregonOn Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:Lot's of great info shared - thank you!My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini is so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The frame flex is noticeable, in a really good way.My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around a lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides in the winter, not so good.I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends; and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter studded tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to the salty roads (even though I clean my Fargo after every ride), plus the rim brakes.On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 5:53:20 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:TRAIL:Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo is almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then it’s sketchy. Now that it has Billie bars (I've also used Simworks getaround and ahearne MAP) those same descents are fun. The geometry of both bikes can handle trail riding if you are skilled and comfortable with that stuff. Biggest impact to the trail riding experience will be cockpit and wheel/tire choice. Also if you weigh 175lbs or more and only want one of these two bikes, I’d say Sam all day. Roadini flexes a lot for me. I don’t think I knew what flex was until pushing myself and my Roadini. ROAD:I don’t have any carbon or aluminum road bike experience to compare to. Compared to 80s-90s steel road bikes with 25mm tires, both Sam and Leo are Cadillacs. Super comfy. Road manners are most affected by tires and cockpit. I’ve done centuries on both and they rule. Again I would stress that since the geo is the same, I’d consider the Roadini if you have a slimmer build, and if you’re closer to 200lbs I’d go Sam all day. The “road performance” of Roadini was negligible in comparison. I consider my Roadini 'faster' only because it has drops, lighter wheels, smoother tires, no racks, minimal baggage, just less weight overall. Never weighed either bike.OBVIOUS:The trails that felt sketchy on my Sam w/drop bars do not get ridden by me on the Roadini, at all. Yes the Roadini is way more trail capable than most dedicated road bikes, because the geo is chill and the tires (on mine) are fat (42 Cavas). The bike does have limits, though, and I

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Nicolas H]

Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less with
more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea of
having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive for
some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm
trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk
myself out of buying an Atlantis.

Thanks,
Nic


On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 5:38 PM John Bokman  wrote:

> Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can
> indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city
> riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that
> isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n'
> Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability.
> Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't
> accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour
> without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's
> locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm
> surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier
> up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine.
> Either way, good on you, Jay.
>
> John
> Oregon
>
> On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>
>> Lot's of great info shared - thank you!
>>
>> My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my
>> Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.
>>
>> As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly
>> with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have
>> had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini is
>> so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The frame
>> flex is noticeable, in a really good way.
>>
>> My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with
>> technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've
>> only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike
>> in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around a
>> lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides in
>> the winter, not so good.
>>
>> I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my
>> *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two
>> existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of
>> trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends;
>> and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter studded
>> tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to the salty
>> roads (even though I clean my Fargo after every ride), plus the rim brakes.
>>
>> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 5:53:20 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> TRAIL:
>>> Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo is
>>> almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes
>>> with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I
>>> had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars
>>> too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with
>>> drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then it’s sketchy.
>>> Now that it has Billie bars (I've also used Simworks getaround and ahearne
>>> MAP) those same descents are fun. The geometry of both bikes can handle
>>> trail riding if you are skilled and comfortable with that stuff. Biggest
>>> impact to the trail riding experience will be cockpit and wheel/tire
>>> choice. Also if you weigh 175lbs or more and only want one of these two
>>> bikes, I’d say Sam all day. Roadini flexes a lot for me. I don’t think I
>>> knew what flex was until pushing myself and my Roadini.
>>>
>>> ROAD:
>>> I don’t have any carbon or aluminum road bike experience to compare to.
>>> Compared to 80s-90s steel road bikes with 25mm tires, both Sam and Leo are
>>> Cadillacs. Super comfy. Road manners are most affected by tires and
>>> cockpit. I’ve done centuries on both and they rule. Again I would stress
>>> that since the geo is the same, I’d consider the Roadini if you have a
>>> slimmer build, and if you’re closer to 200lbs I’d go Sam all day. The “road
>>> performance” of Roadini was negligible in comparison. I consider my Roadini
>>> 'faster' only because it has drops, lighter wheels, smoother tires, no
>>> racks, minimal baggage, just less weight overall. Never weighed either bike.
>>>
>>> OBVIOUS:
>>> The trails that felt sketchy on my Sam w/drop bars do not get ridden by
>>> me on the Roadini, at all. Yes the Roadini is way more trail capable than
>>> most dedicated road bikes, because the geo is chill and the tires (on mine)
>>> are fat (42 Cavas). The bike does have limits, though, and I don't n

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[John Bokman]

Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can 
indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city 
riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that 
isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n' 
Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability. 
Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't 
accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour 
without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's 
locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm 
surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier 
up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine. 
Either way, good on you, Jay.

John
Oregon

On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 6:48:26 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> Lot's of great info shared - thank you!
>
> My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my 
> Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.
>
> As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly 
> with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have 
> had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini is 
> so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The frame 
> flex is noticeable, in a really good way.
>
> My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with 
> technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've 
> only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike 
> in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around a 
> lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides in 
> the winter, not so good.
>
> I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my 
> *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two 
> existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of 
> trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends; 
> and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter studded 
> tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to the salty 
> roads (even though I clean my Fargo after every ride), plus the rim brakes.
>
> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 5:53:20 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> TRAIL:
>> Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo is 
>> almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes 
>> with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I 
>> had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars 
>> too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with 
>> drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then it’s sketchy. 
>> Now that it has Billie bars (I've also used Simworks getaround and ahearne 
>> MAP) those same descents are fun. The geometry of both bikes can handle 
>> trail riding if you are skilled and comfortable with that stuff. Biggest 
>> impact to the trail riding experience will be cockpit and wheel/tire 
>> choice. Also if you weigh 175lbs or more and only want one of these two 
>> bikes, I’d say Sam all day. Roadini flexes a lot for me. I don’t think I 
>> knew what flex was until pushing myself and my Roadini. 
>>
>> ROAD:
>> I don’t have any carbon or aluminum road bike experience to compare to. 
>> Compared to 80s-90s steel road bikes with 25mm tires, both Sam and Leo are 
>> Cadillacs. Super comfy. Road manners are most affected by tires and 
>> cockpit. I’ve done centuries on both and they rule. Again I would stress 
>> that since the geo is the same, I’d consider the Roadini if you have a 
>> slimmer build, and if you’re closer to 200lbs I’d go Sam all day. The “road 
>> performance” of Roadini was negligible in comparison. I consider my Roadini 
>> 'faster' only because it has drops, lighter wheels, smoother tires, no 
>> racks, minimal baggage, just less weight overall. Never weighed either bike.
>>
>> OBVIOUS:
>> The trails that felt sketchy on my Sam w/drop bars do not get ridden by 
>> me on the Roadini, at all. Yes the Roadini is way more trail capable than 
>> most dedicated road bikes, because the geo is chill and the tires (on mine) 
>> are fat (42 Cavas). The bike does have limits, though, and I don't need to 
>> push those limits because I have a Hillborne. Despite the matching geometry 
>> I would hastily rate the Sam [60/40 Road/Trail] and the Leo [80/20 
>> Road/Trail] 
>> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 2:22:13 PM UTC-8 fmri...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting thread. I own a 57 Sam set up with drop bars / 42mm gravel 
>>> kings. I had the opportunity to build a lugged 54 roadini, I’m luckily on 
>>> the cusp of both sizes. What persuaded me to follow through despite the 
>>> quite obvious simila

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Jay]

Lot's of great info shared - thank you!

My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my 
Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.

As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly with 
2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have had 
work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini is so 
much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The frame 
flex is noticeable, in a really good way.

My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with 
technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've 
only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike 
in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around a 
lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides in 
the winter, not so good.

I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my 
*them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two 
existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of 
trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends; 
and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter studded 
tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to the salty 
roads (even though I clean my Fargo after every ride), plus the rim brakes.

On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 5:53:20 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> TRAIL:
> Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo is 
> almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes 
> with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I 
> had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars 
> too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with 
> drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then it’s sketchy. 
> Now that it has Billie bars (I've also used Simworks getaround and ahearne 
> MAP) those same descents are fun. The geometry of both bikes can handle 
> trail riding if you are skilled and comfortable with that stuff. Biggest 
> impact to the trail riding experience will be cockpit and wheel/tire 
> choice. Also if you weigh 175lbs or more and only want one of these two 
> bikes, I’d say Sam all day. Roadini flexes a lot for me. I don’t think I 
> knew what flex was until pushing myself and my Roadini. 
>
> ROAD:
> I don’t have any carbon or aluminum road bike experience to compare to. 
> Compared to 80s-90s steel road bikes with 25mm tires, both Sam and Leo are 
> Cadillacs. Super comfy. Road manners are most affected by tires and 
> cockpit. I’ve done centuries on both and they rule. Again I would stress 
> that since the geo is the same, I’d consider the Roadini if you have a 
> slimmer build, and if you’re closer to 200lbs I’d go Sam all day. The “road 
> performance” of Roadini was negligible in comparison. I consider my Roadini 
> 'faster' only because it has drops, lighter wheels, smoother tires, no 
> racks, minimal baggage, just less weight overall. Never weighed either bike.
>
> OBVIOUS:
> The trails that felt sketchy on my Sam w/drop bars do not get ridden by me 
> on the Roadini, at all. Yes the Roadini is way more trail capable than most 
> dedicated road bikes, because the geo is chill and the tires (on mine) are 
> fat (42 Cavas). The bike does have limits, though, and I don't need to push 
> those limits because I have a Hillborne. Despite the matching geometry I 
> would hastily rate the Sam [60/40 Road/Trail] and the Leo [80/20 
> Road/Trail] 
> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 2:22:13 PM UTC-8 fmri...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Interesting thread. I own a 57 Sam set up with drop bars / 42mm gravel 
>> kings. I had the opportunity to build a lugged 54 roadini, I’m luckily on 
>> the cusp of both sizes. What persuaded me to follow through despite the 
>> quite obvious similarities, was the ability to size down. Looking forward 
>> to a more road build. Will report back once I have some riding done, super 
>> stoked. 
>>
>>
>> Franco Rinaldi 
>> c:  646.403.0661 <(646)%20403-0661> 
>>
>> -Pardon any typos, Siri typed this message-
>>
>> On Mar 3, 2025, at 5:00 PM, John Bokman  wrote:
>>
>> I have more or less the same questions as Mike in BK. I ride a 2017 58cm 
>> Sam, and the equivalent sized Roadini (a 57cm as it happens) has almost 
>> identical numbers. The number I'm most interested in would be the front 
>> center. But they don't list those stats anymore in the geo charts? From 
>> email exchange with Will, the two frames will ride very similarly. I 
>> wouldn't be surprised if the tubing is indeed slightly different - or not - 
>> but I'm not sure if I'd notice it. What I would notice, however, is the 
>> front center measurement; Ideally I would want more than I currently get 
>> with my Sam (61.8cm, according to Bike Insights).
>>
>>
>> John
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Brent Eastman]

TRAIL:
Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo is 
almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes 
with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I 
had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars 
too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with 
drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then it’s sketchy. 
Now that it has Billie bars (I've also used Simworks getaround and ahearne 
MAP) those same descents are fun. The geometry of both bikes can handle 
trail riding if you are skilled and comfortable with that stuff. Biggest 
impact to the trail riding experience will be cockpit and wheel/tire 
choice. Also if you weigh 175lbs or more and only want one of these two 
bikes, I’d say Sam all day. Roadini flexes a lot for me. I don’t think I 
knew what flex was until pushing myself and my Roadini. 

ROAD:
I don’t have any carbon or aluminum road bike experience to compare to. 
Compared to 80s-90s steel road bikes with 25mm tires, both Sam and Leo are 
Cadillacs. Super comfy. Road manners are most affected by tires and 
cockpit. I’ve done centuries on both and they rule. Again I would stress 
that since the geo is the same, I’d consider the Roadini if you have a 
slimmer build, and if you’re closer to 200lbs I’d go Sam all day. The “road 
performance” of Roadini was negligible in comparison. I consider my Roadini 
'faster' only because it has drops, lighter wheels, smoother tires, no 
racks, minimal baggage, just less weight overall. Never weighed either bike.

OBVIOUS:
The trails that felt sketchy on my Sam w/drop bars do not get ridden by me 
on the Roadini, at all. Yes the Roadini is way more trail capable than most 
dedicated road bikes, because the geo is chill and the tires (on mine) are 
fat (42 Cavas). The bike does have limits, though, and I don't need to push 
those limits because I have a Hillborne. Despite the matching geometry I 
would hastily rate the Sam [60/40 Road/Trail] and the Leo [80/20 
Road/Trail] 
On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 2:22:13 PM UTC-8 fmri...@gmail.com wrote:

> Interesting thread. I own a 57 Sam set up with drop bars / 42mm gravel 
> kings. I had the opportunity to build a lugged 54 roadini, I’m luckily on 
> the cusp of both sizes. What persuaded me to follow through despite the 
> quite obvious similarities, was the ability to size down. Looking forward 
> to a more road build. Will report back once I have some riding done, super 
> stoked. 
>
>
> Franco Rinaldi 
> c:  646.403.0661 <(646)%20403-0661> 
>
> -Pardon any typos, Siri typed this message-
>
> On Mar 3, 2025, at 5:00 PM, John Bokman  wrote:
>
> I have more or less the same questions as Mike in BK. I ride a 2017 58cm 
> Sam, and the equivalent sized Roadini (a 57cm as it happens) has almost 
> identical numbers. The number I'm most interested in would be the front 
> center. But they don't list those stats anymore in the geo charts? From 
> email exchange with Will, the two frames will ride very similarly. I 
> wouldn't be surprised if the tubing is indeed slightly different - or not - 
> but I'm not sure if I'd notice it. What I would notice, however, is the 
> front center measurement; Ideally I would want more than I currently get 
> with my Sam (61.8cm, according to Bike Insights).
>
>
> John
> Oregon
>
> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 8:17:38 AM UTC-8 Mike in BK wrote:
>
>> Hi Brenton,
>>
>> If you have a 57 Roadini and a 57 Sam from a recent MIT generation, their 
>> geos looks very similar (like, very). With the Sam being more stout and a 
>> little longer, how would you compare the rides? Interested in the feel on 
>> the road and capabilities on non-paved roads (which you've already 
>> described a bit here).
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Mike
>>
>> On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I ride my Roadini all over. I'm on a 57 as well. 6'1" and 185lbs. I have 
>>> 32H dyad hoops. Only used Ultradynamico Cava 42s on it so far.
>>>
>>> I have thrown the rear wheel out of true after getting "air" off some 
>>> roots on familiar trails. That's about as crazy as I get, and I've learned 
>>> not to beat on it the way I can do with my Sam. Sam has 36 hole Atlas 
>>> wheels. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 6:10:35 AM UTC-8 rmulc...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 Looking forward to answers to this. I have a Hilsen set up for road 
 riding, with slicks and a dark-boston-winter-inspired dynamo, and I love 
 it 
 -- it's fast and so comfortable -- and have no plans to make any big 
 changes. 
 (Except maybe to Paul brakes -- big for the wallet.) 
 Thinking of getting a Roadini or an Atlantis next, for trail riding but 
 also, sometimes, commuting. On first glance, it seems like the Atlantis 
 would be the smart choice, but I like the geo of the roadini better, like 
 that it's a little lighter,

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Franco Rinaldi]

Interesting thread. I own a 57 Sam set up with drop bars / 42mm gravel kings. I had the opportunity to build a lugged 54 roadini, I’m luckily on the cusp of both sizes. What persuaded me to follow through despite the quite obvious similarities, was the ability to size down. Looking forward to a more road build. Will report back once I have some riding done, super stoked. Franco Rinaldi c:  646.403.0661 -Pardon any typos, Siri typed this message-On Mar 3, 2025, at 5:00 PM, John Bokman  wrote:I have more or less the same questions as Mike in BK. I ride a 2017 58cm Sam, and the equivalent sized Roadini (a 57cm as it happens) has almost identical numbers. The number I'm most interested in would be the front center. But they don't list those stats anymore in the geo charts? From email exchange with Will, the two frames will ride very similarly. I wouldn't be surprised if the tubing is indeed slightly different - or not - but I'm not sure if I'd notice it. What I would notice, however, is the front center measurement; Ideally I would want more than I currently get with my Sam (61.8cm, according to Bike Insights).JohnOregonOn Monday, March 3, 2025 at 8:17:38 AM UTC-8 Mike in BK wrote:Hi Brenton,If you have a 57 Roadini and a 57 Sam from a recent MIT generation, their geos looks very similar (like, very). With the Sam being more stout and a little longer, how would you compare the rides? Interested in the feel on the road and capabilities on non-paved roads (which you've already described a bit here).Thanks!MikeOn Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:I ride my Roadini all over. I'm on a 57 as well. 6'1" and 185lbs. I have 32H dyad hoops. Only used Ultradynamico Cava 42s on it so far.I have thrown the rear wheel out of true after getting "air" off some roots on familiar trails. That's about as crazy as I get, and I've learned not to beat on it the way I can do with my Sam. Sam has 36 hole Atlas wheels. On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 6:10:35 AM UTC-8 rmulc...@gmail.com wrote:Looking forward to answers to this. I have a Hilsen set up for road riding, with slicks and a dark-boston-winter-inspired dynamo, and I love it -- it's fast and so comfortable -- and have no plans to make any big changes. (Except maybe to Paul brakes -- big for the wallet.) Thinking of getting a Roadini or an Atlantis next, for trail riding but also, sometimes, commuting. On first glance, it seems like the Atlantis would be the smart choice, but I like the geo of the roadini better, like that it's a little lighter, like that the lugged version seems more rack friendly, and I'm just not convinced that a somewhat experienced (def not expert) rider needs anything bigger than a 43/45 tired unless he/she is hitting mountain trails. (For which a mountain bike will always be better.) I have a crust bombora, which I would gift to my son, and on all kinds of trails I've never felt any ride-feel difference between a 42 tire and a 50. So curious about others' experiences. Jay, thanks for asking this questions, and as far as tire advice, I really love the soma cazaderos for what you're describing.Cheers!On Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 7:50:23 AM UTC-5 Jay wrote:I have the 2023 Roadini, size 57.  I LOVE the bike and how it feels, every time I get on it after a long break (riding another bike on snowy/salty roads) I'm reminded of just how good it fits, handles, and feels.I'm thinking of adding a third wheel set, for mainly unpaved riding (more below).  I'm curious as to your experience with this bike on gravel roads, trails, etc.  I realize bike configs will differ, as to the specific riding conditions, but to me this is not a road bike like the ones I've had previously, so I want to push the envelope and see what terrain I can ride, somewhat comfortably.Recap: Bought it a year ago and had two wheel sets from the start, one with Dura-Ace wheels I already had, and 30mm tires for road rides with a friend, who is faster than me (me and the bike can keep up! so it has replaced my road bike); the other with new 105 hubs and H plus son archetype rims with 43mm GKSS tires for every other ride, which includes rail trails, short sections of gravel paths connecting roads, and 100% paved rides when on my own (I like the added comfort and versatility over the 30mm tires).  Swapping wheels is so easy, pop the quick release on the TRP levers and on the other one on the brake callipers, swap wheels, barrel adjuster on the calliper to adjust pads to rim, done.  I'm always playing records when messing around with the bike, and this is a "one song" adjustment lolIf I was to add a third wheel set, I think I would want go tubeless, with supple 43-45mm tires with an aggressive tread.  I want to maximize comfort and also have a tire that can corner on loose gravel, and ride comfortably over choppy gravel roads (on longer mixed surface rides).  The 43mm GKSS tires are great, and I run that at 30psi if mixed surface, but they lack comfort on

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[John Bokman]

I ride 700c Sam off-road on 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Roads. They are 
outstanding, in my estimation. Plenty good on pavement and excellent off 
pavement. My concern about riding rough off road is not with tire cush or 
gription, but with toe overlap. I experience overlap on my Sam, using flat 
pedals (feet further forward on pedals). Because this bothers me, I would 
want a 650B or 26" wheel for this use case, ideally. It's too bad Riv no 
longer posts front-center measurements on the geometry table, because it 
can be a good indication if overlap could be problematic. Just one more 
thing to mull over, perhaps.

John
Oregon

On Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 6:19:35 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> Thanks for the comments.  Once my local trails are rideable I'll try out 
> the Roadini with the GKSS 43mm tires I have on there already, with tubes, 
> and I'll just drop the pressures to as low as I'm comfortable.
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 7:29:46 PM UTC-5 philip@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> *Ray Hosler
>>
>> Peter Hassler wrote Wild and Crazy Ride
>>
>> About being in Vietnam, the merchant marines, and the FDNY.
>>
>> Probably a good double bill back to back tho!
>>
>> P. W.
>> ~
>> (917) 514-2207
>> ~
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2025, at 3:01 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>> Peter Hassler wrote about in Once Upon a Ride
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Jay]

Thanks for the comments.  Once my local trails are rideable I'll try out 
the Roadini with the GKSS 43mm tires I have on there already, with tubes, 
and I'll just drop the pressures to as low as I'm comfortable.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2025 at 7:29:46 PM UTC-5 philip@gmail.com 
wrote:

> *Ray Hosler
>
> Peter Hassler wrote Wild and Crazy Ride
>
> About being in Vietnam, the merchant marines, and the FDNY.
>
> Probably a good double bill back to back tho!
>
> P. W.
> ~
> (917) 514-2207
> ~
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2025, at 3:01 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>
> Peter Hassler wrote about in Once Upon a Ride
>
>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[P W]

*Ray Hosler

Peter Hassler wrote Wild and Crazy Ride

About being in Vietnam, the merchant marines, and the FDNY.

Probably a good double bill back to back tho!

P. W.
~
(917) 514-2207
~




> On Feb 11, 2025, at 3:01 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
> Peter Hassler wrote about in Once Upon a Ride

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