Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 21:10 -0700, William wrote: > I'd buy one of those Rivendells, if they didn't all need one of those > 'signature' drivetrains. Drivetrains just act as a shelf to collect > mud. I'm going to order one of those drivetrainless bikes, so I can > remain mud free when I slog through the mud. Like this, http://media.dwell.com/images/314*314/ReForm-School-Amish-scooter.jpg you mean? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
on 4/7/11 3:08 PM, Aaron Thomas at [email protected] wrote: I wish the Riv/Soma frame didn't have Riv's new "signature" kickstand plate. I recall seeing a photo of someone's Hilsen (maybe Cyclofiend's?) that had been CX-raced in the mud. And the kickstand plate acted as a mud shelf, piling it up high behind the seat tube. The kickstand plate seems to limit the versatility of the frame, without really giving you any significant benefits. After all, you can always add a kickstand to a frame without a plate. But you can't take a plate off a frame without labors that would require a re-paint. Other than convenience for those who use kickstands, what's to be gained by having the built-in plate? I just don't get it. I've often been tempted by the Hillborne, but I balk because of that darned kickstand plate, which is entirely useless to me, and would likely only be a liability given the sometimes-mucky off-roading I'd want to do on it. Yep. That was mine. And just to be clear, that was SERIOUS mud. Slip-sliding-strictly-sticky-significantly-saucy-spirit-sucking SERIOUS mud http://vimeo.com/3387689 Yeah, it stacked up on the kickstand plate, http://www.flickr.com/photos/gzahnd/3285145851/in/set-72157613897340235 but it stuck to the drivetrain pretty seriously as well. http://www.flickr.com/photos/gzahnd/3285966758 There were full-bore chainstay-bridgeless CX frames that bogged down that day. IIRC, someone took images of all the goobered-over brakes that day - it's somewhere on flickr. In short, I've not had that type of results before or since - and I've covered a pretty good assortment of conditions, both fendered and non.If I were getting a CX-specific frame, I wouldn't ask for it, but as far as a mixed-terrain monster, its significance could be overstated... - Jim -- Jim Edgar [email protected] Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com "There were messengers who named their bikes, but Chevette never would have done that, and somehow because she did think about it like it was something alive." William Gibson - "Virtual Light" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 18:14 -0700, EricP wrote: > Winter riding. Even with full coverage fenders, snow/salt/slush > accumulate on a plate. I still argue this can lead to early corrosion > of the stays when it builds up over a few winters. Certainly not a problem here in Northern Virginia. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:08 -0700, Aaron Thomas wrote: > > The kickstand plate seems to limit the versatility of the frame, > without really giving you any significant benefits. After all, you can > always add a kickstand to a frame without a plate. Yes, sure, if you're willing to risk the chance of crushing or crimping the chain stays when you bolt the kickstand on. I've seen more than one bike damaged that way. No chance of doing that with a chainstay plate. Other than cyclocross, which I would rather be flayed and have my flesh salted than consider, what other possible bicycling activity could be hampered or harmed by the presence of a kickstand plate? I have two Kogswell P/Rs. One is set up as a porteur, and it has a double-legged kickstand, bolted to the kickstand plate. The other is my touring bike (and used to be my commuter). It has no kickstand, but it does have a kickstand plate. I've used that second P/R for every type of riding I do, with and without a touring load, including riding on gravel roads, and have never had one moment's inconvenience from the kickstand plate. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
Interesting; thanks for posting that. I wonder what my frame was made from: certainly oversized and quite light, but doubtless not as thinwall as tubing for light road racers. Actually, I think a good part of the bike's appeal was the frame design: IIRC, it was well balanced: not to twitchy, not too slow and, in particular, the front end seemed easier to keep straight over soft surfaces than some other mtbs I have owned. On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:51 PM, bfd wrote: > > > On Apr 5, 6:38 pm, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > > Thanks. Do you know if the new Prestige is still thinwall heat treated? > My > > 1991 Specialized Stumpjumper Team was the old Prestige and it was a very > > nice frame indeed; I don't remember hearing of any weight limit -- my > > brother Peter, a good 40-50 lb heavier than my 170, had no problem > beating > > up similar frames. > > > Patrick, > > Here are some specs to help you decide. > > The specs for the current Prestige tubing: > http://www.tange-design.com/products_detail.php?sn=161 > > Here's the specs on the older Prestige tubing: > http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/tange/Tange-road-tubing-I.jpg > > As you can see the old Prestige came in several different forms. The > current Prestige only in one with an "Ultimate" tubing be the lightest/ > top of the line. Good Luck! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
I've got three kids, so have done my part to perpetuate the species... it's all extranious bits now I suppose. On 4/5/11, rcnute wrote: > Hmm, "crotchal safety" and "unimportant differentiators" in the same > sentence... > > Ryan > > On Apr 5, 5:39 pm, William wrote: >> I don't believe anybody is handwringing over whatever their front end >> format is. Both threaded and threadless work and work well. bfd's >> assertion was that more Soma San Marcos framesets would be sold if it >> were spec'd with a 1" threadless fork, because threadless is >> mainstream even though 1" threadless is not mainstream. I don't think >> there are many potential buyers who would tell you that 1" threadless >> is their first choice. The point that bfd didn't make was that from a >> business standpoint, if I was Merry Sales, and if I wanted to keep the >> price as low as possible, I'd seriously consider offering only one >> fork for all sizes and drop the price of the frameset. That, I think, >> would generate more sales, and could only be done with...wait for >> it...threadless. There's already a precedent for one fork rake across >> lots of sizes for the budget Rivendell frames. If Soma wanted to >> offer the San Marcos at a lower price, and wanted to get there with a >> threadless fork, then I could definitely believe that might yield more >> sales. I doubt there are a lot of buyers who say "this frameset right >> here is perfect for me, but I don't like the headset type so I won't >> buy it". They'll disqualify on price, weight, fit, even color, but >> headset? I don't think so. I could be wrong. >> >> FWIW, I've had all the headset formats and all of them worked fine, >> including 1-1/4" threaded and 1" threadless. When it comes down to >> looks and how nervous you are about crotchal safety, I'd say we're >> into the unimportant differentiators. >> >> On Apr 5, 3:34 pm, cyclotourist wrote: >> >> > I've come to appreciate threadless. The ease of setting them is >> > fantastic. If I were going to get a new bike, I would prefer it. I >> > don't know of any downside to them, other than they don't look good >> > with high bars on a too-small frame. I think they look nicer than the >> > big "7" of a quill stem sticking way up there though. Plus I don't >> > like a big hung of pointy steel aimed at my genitals when I'm trail >> > riding. As bfd mentioned, once you have the position set, presuming >> > you don't cut the steerer you have lots of adjustability. You have to >> > get a new stem to adjust for reach, but you have to do that with a >> > quill stem as well. And the open face plate for bar changes is >> > wonderful, although used rarely. >> >> > My $.02 >> >> > On 4/5/11, bfd wrote: >> >> > > On Apr 5, 2:09 pm, William wrote: >> > >> 1.125" threadless is certainly the MOST mainstream, but I don't think >> > >> I'd advise Riv or even Soma to grow their business by becoming more >> > >> mainstream. >> >> > > Why not? If you offer things familiar to what people want, it will >> > > sell. Further, Riv does offer or once offered a threadless version on >> > > at least a couple of its bikes: >> >> > > Roadeo: >> > >http://assets.rivbike.com/images/products/full//3108/mark_s_roade... >> >> > > Legolas (currently not offered): >> > >http://tandemhearts.com/coppermine/albums/legolas/legolas_03.jpg >> >> > > And I'm sure there are more than one Riv Custom frameset that use >> > > threadless. >> >> > > I'm not the only one who likes threadless. One of the original >> > > "retrogrouches" himself, Jobst Brandt (hope he recovers from his >> > > accident soon!) believes they are an *improvement* over threaded >> > > headsets and quill stems: >> >> > >http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/threadless-headset.html >> >> > >>1" threaded is flat out better for reasons that Riv >> > >> thinks are important. 1.125" threadless is flat out better for >> > >> reasons that Riv thinks are entirely unimportant. >> >> > > I didn't just suggest 1.125" threadless, as I did state that 1" >> > > threadless with a shim could be an option. Further, how many people >> > > really adjust their stems up and down once they've been set? Moreover, >> > > unless you cut the steerer tube too short, spacers can be added or >> > > removed. Finally, there are stems that rise. >> >> > > Again, these are just suggestion to *attract* people to this new >> > > frameset. Good Luck! >> >> > > -- >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > > Groups >> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> > > To post to this group, send email to >> > > [email protected]. >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > [email protected]. >> > > For more options, visit this group at >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >> >> > -- >> > Cheers, >> > David >> > Redlands, CA >> >> > *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would >> > probably
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
Thanks. Do you know if the new Prestige is still thinwall heat treated? My 1991 Specialized Stumpjumper Team was the old Prestige and it was a very nice frame indeed; I don't remember hearing of any weight limit -- my brother Peter, a good 40-50 lb heavier than my 170, had no problem beating up similar frames. On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 6:39 PM, EricP wrote: > Don't know the answers, but from what I can gather, present Prestige > has little to no relation to the old Prestige tubing. That was light, > heat treated tubing that had some serious restrictions on it for frame > builders. (This is all from 25 year old memories, so take with a grain > of salt.) If remembering correctly, the old Prestige actually had a > weight limit for riders. Never threw a leg over a bike built by one > for that reason. > > Even though today's Prestige doesn't have that weight limit, still > won't buy a bike built with it. Mental block on my part. > > Eric Platt > St. Paul, MN > > On Apr 5, 3:46 pm, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > > Does anyone know how much it will cost? And, second, what current or > recent > > Rivendell model will this most closely approximate? Tange Prestige: I > > remember when that was really high end stuff, at least in the marketing > > literature. The tubing had a nice, clear "ping" when you flicked it with > > your fingernail, unlike the dull "thud" of lesser steels. > > > > (Wish they didn't have those ugly and useless dt shifter bosses, tho' > ...) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:03 PM, davidfrench > wrote: > > > maybe here : > > > > >http://somafab.blogspot.com/2010/01/rivendell-collaborates-with-soma-. > .. > > > > > On Apr 1, 4:59 pm, rcnute wrote: > > > > True, but I figured summer 2011--maybe? > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > On Apr 1, 1:53 pm, William wrote: > > > > > > > Hopefully March 19,2010 is not really the latest. :) > > > > > > > Calling Merry Sales is probably the best way to get that info. > > > > > > > On Apr 1, 1:40 pm, rcnute wrote: > > > > > > > >http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/216 > > > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > On Apr 1, 12:08 pm, Richard Merkin wrote: > > > > > > > > > Has anybody heard the lastest about the release of the bike > they > > > are > > > > > > > working on together? > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > > -- > > Patrick Moore > > Albuquerque, NM > > For professional resumes, contact > > Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] Hide quoted > text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
I've come to appreciate threadless. The ease of setting them is fantastic. If I were going to get a new bike, I would prefer it. I don't know of any downside to them, other than they don't look good with high bars on a too-small frame. I think they look nicer than the big "7" of a quill stem sticking way up there though. Plus I don't like a big hung of pointy steel aimed at my genitals when I'm trail riding. As bfd mentioned, once you have the position set, presuming you don't cut the steerer you have lots of adjustability. You have to get a new stem to adjust for reach, but you have to do that with a quill stem as well. And the open face plate for bar changes is wonderful, although used rarely. My $.02 On 4/5/11, bfd wrote: > > > On Apr 5, 2:09 pm, William wrote: >> 1.125" threadless is certainly the MOST mainstream, but I don't think >> I'd advise Riv or even Soma to grow their business by becoming more >> mainstream. > > Why not? If you offer things familiar to what people want, it will > sell. Further, Riv does offer or once offered a threadless version on > at least a couple of its bikes: > > Roadeo: > http://assets.rivbike.com/images/products/full//3108/mark_s_roadeo.jpg > > Legolas (currently not offered): > http://tandemhearts.com/coppermine/albums/legolas/legolas_03.jpg > > And I'm sure there are more than one Riv Custom frameset that use > threadless. > > I'm not the only one who likes threadless. One of the original > "retrogrouches" himself, Jobst Brandt (hope he recovers from his > accident soon!) believes they are an *improvement* over threaded > headsets and quill stems: > > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/threadless-headset.html > >>1" threaded is flat out better for reasons that Riv >> thinks are important. 1.125" threadless is flat out better for >> reasons that Riv thinks are entirely unimportant. >> > I didn't just suggest 1.125" threadless, as I did state that 1" > threadless with a shim could be an option. Further, how many people > really adjust their stems up and down once they've been set? Moreover, > unless you cut the steerer tube too short, spacers can be added or > removed. Finally, there are stems that rise. > > Again, these are just suggestion to *attract* people to this new > frameset. Good Luck! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would probably benefit more from improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 5:09 PM, William wrote: > 1.125" threadless is certainly the MOST mainstream, but I don't think > I'd advise Riv or even Soma to grow their business by becoming more > mainstream. 1" threaded is flat out better for reasons that Riv > thinks are important. 1.125" threadless is flat out better for > reasons that Riv thinks are entirely unimportant. > Well said. Getting them bars up is much simpler on a quill stem (and much simpler to play with later) -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
Does anyone know how much it will cost? And, second, what current or recent Rivendell model will this most closely approximate? Tange Prestige: I remember when that was really high end stuff, at least in the marketing literature. The tubing had a nice, clear "ping" when you flicked it with your fingernail, unlike the dull "thud" of lesser steels. (Wish they didn't have those ugly and useless dt shifter bosses, tho' ...) On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:03 PM, davidfrench wrote: > maybe here : > > > http://somafab.blogspot.com/2010/01/rivendell-collaborates-with-soma-on.html > > > > On Apr 1, 4:59 pm, rcnute wrote: > > True, but I figured summer 2011--maybe? > > > > Ryan > > > > On Apr 1, 1:53 pm, William wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hopefully March 19,2010 is not really the latest. :) > > > > > Calling Merry Sales is probably the best way to get that info. > > > > > On Apr 1, 1:40 pm, rcnute wrote: > > > > > >http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/216 > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > On Apr 1, 12:08 pm, Richard Merkin wrote: > > > > > > > Has anybody heard the lastest about the release of the bike they > are > > > > > working on together? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Soma/Riv Bike
I asked Soma about this, and they said they will do a blog post when they have more information. Nothing as of yet. Eric On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 4:53 PM, William wrote: > Hopefully March 19,2010 is not really the latest. :) > > Calling Merry Sales is probably the best way to get that info. > > > On Apr 1, 1:40 pm, rcnute wrote: > > http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/216 > > > > Ryan > > > > On Apr 1, 12:08 pm, Richard Merkin wrote: > > > > > Has anybody heard the lastest about the release of the bike they are > > > working on together? > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
