Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
The circle distance changes depending upon what size chain ring you are using as well. The same ratio gear but using a smaller chain wheel effectively makes the crank longer because the smaller chain wheel brings the chain closer to the fulcrum (Spindle) On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Brad wrote: > Darn you and your "geometry"! > > And, um, good point. > > > On Aug 26, 5:43 pm, William wrote: > > Even if you wore elevator shoes that were 4 inches thick, you still > > would pedal bigger circles with longer crankarms. The radius of that > > circle is the crank arm length, and has nothing to do with shoe > > thickness or pedal thickness, provided your foot is actually on top of > > the pedal at all times. Draw it on a piece of paper and you'll see > > it. Shoe thickness will change where you might need to position your > > saddle, but it won't make your crank arms feel longer (or shorter). > > > > On Aug 26, 2:25 pm, Brad wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Aug 22, 1:30 am, charlie wrote: > > > > > > Just wear some 2.5 mm thicker shoes ! > > > > > Yeah, it seems like between pedal, cleat, shoe, and sock variation you > > > could easily have a 2.5mm variation in thickness. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Fai Mao The Blogger who sometimes responds to comments -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:00, William wrote: > I guess I'm one of the fixated, although I wouldn't call it a > fixation. I prefer to buy things in my size, and I've determined > through experience that 172.5 is my best size. I now use 170, after having tried also 165 and 175. There is no question in my mind that one can easily feel the 2.5mm difference, but I find it hard to believe that it's more inherently significant than a matter of what one is used to. I'm sure if I switched from 170 to either 167.5 or 172.5 I would get accustomed to it, and then be just fine after I got used to it. Do those of you so devoted to 172.5 think that you would not get used to 170 or 175 if you gave it enough time? I do recognize it would be inconvenient to switch over one's entire fleet. James Black Los Angeles, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
On Aug 20, 2010, at 1:03 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: What items did you find unsatisfactory? I just returned a Retro bottle cage on which the weld had come apart after two months' use. As I mentioned to Chris, I'd squeezed it slightly a number of times to keep a better fit for a Kleen Canteen 27 oz bottle. Whether that qualifies as abuse I'm not sure--I'll be happy with whatever Chris feels is appropriate. The price point was right for me at the time, and it sure looked good while it lasted. As my friend's wise Polish father once said to him and applies equally to me, "You're too poor to buy cheap things." Rob in Seattle -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
Where did your Pro 5 Vis break? Do you know of any quality differences between the newer production and the older ones? Thanks. Patrick Moore, who has a collection of the older ones On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Noel wrote: > I took delivery of a pair of the VO cranks a couple of days ago, to > replace the late production Pro 5 Vis that broke. Overall they seem > fine so far. The cranks themselves seem approximately comparable in > quality and finish to the TA. The backside of the chainrings is a > "pebble grain" finish rather than the high polish on the front. I am > sure this is a cost-saving measure, but it doesn't bother me. The > crank bolts are Allen head which I dislike. I replaced them with > standard 15mm bolts and then discovered the big ugly Allen head > dustcaps don't fit over them, and the TA dustcaps are a different > thread. So I ended up using the Allen head bolts and dustcaps. I'm > sure they'll work, but I don't care much for the appearance. > > All the chainring bolts are Allen head both inside and outside. The > inner bolts (the ones that hold both rings to the crank) foul the BB > fixed cup. (SKF brand). I had to file material off of each inner bolt. > Also, none of the bolts were greased, so I had to disassemble all of > them and grease them. > > I consider these all minor foibles. As long as these ones don't break, > I'll have no complaints. The pinned and ramped rings, FWIW, do shift > better than the plain TA ones. > > Re. length: I grew up on 175 for road racing and 170 for track. I > personally have a hard time understanding the fixation with 172.5, and > would be interested in the results of some double-blind tests for the > aficionados. I've been riding for about 30 years, some of which were > as a cat. 1 on the track, and I'm not sure I could tell apart cranks > with a 2.5mm difference. I am positive that even if I can, it won't > matter. Some people may just be more sensitive, I guess -- but I'm > still skeptical! > > Re. VO quality: I like their stuff and have a lot of it. Most if it is > not quite as good as the stuff it is copying, but I haven't yet run > into any junk. I did sell a used VO saddle to a 230 pounder, who later > broke a rivet. That's the only really negative experience I am > personally aware of with their stuff. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 09:33 -0700, scott wrote: > I personally stopped buying > VO products after having things break or wear badly or just seem cheap > in real life with regular use. Pretty stuff, but not good for my > lifestyle. Let me add my voice to the chorus of those asking for more specific information. I've bought quite a few things from Velo Orange including a frameset, and have found their stuff to be of very good quality. Nothing's broken, nothing's worn out. What items did you find unsatisfactory? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
I was tempted in that direction but the shims wouldn't easily fit in my SIDI's and I didn't really want the expense of new shoes. If the cleat shims hadn't helped I think I would've been looking for a pair of Specialized shoes. -Original Message- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of Michael_S Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 2:32 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here Specialized uses a varus wedge in their Body Geometry shoes that that accomplishes the same "canting" . I have used them exclusively for 5 years and they have eliminated any foot or knee issues I used to have. They also sell a shim that goes inside your shoe under the footbed for the non clipped-in set. ~Mike~ On Aug 20, 11:02 am, "Frederick, Steve" wrote: > Yeah, I don't know if you'd lose any function by using a home made shim, a > small washer or something. They weren't a ton of money though, and the > instructions and versatility (each shim is very thin and thus they can be > customized by stacking them) made them a worthy investment to me... > > ...they addressed exactly the sort of shoe issue you describe, Patrick, FWIW. > > Steve > > > > -Original Message- > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of PATRICK MOORE > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here > > This is excellent information. I have, with most shoes and pedals, a > chronic "burn" -cum- "ache" on the outside of my left foot thanks, I > think, to a foot that is canted outward. I know that, when I > deliberately cant the foot inward, it relieves the slight but real > pain. I must try a shim under my cleats -- don't see why you need to > pay for a specially made device for this purpose. > > Odd, but old Shimano M540s and M520s are more comfortable in this > respect than any other pedals I've used including platforms and wide > MKS Tourings. But these don't have the cachet of newer, shinier and > lighter pedals that make me go faster. > > On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Frederick, Steve > wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:21 -0700, andrew hill wrote: > >> I do have some kneed problems on one side, especially an IT band > >> problem that cropped after a century in June.. perhaps less bend would > >> help that. > > > Steve P. suggested: > > >>Or a higher Q. > > > Or LeWedges. I got a packet of these a couple of weeks ago and they've > > made a noticeable difference in my pedaling comfort and efficiency. Knee > > pain is getting better and shoe comfort is improved, too. (less > > pressure/rubbing on the little toe side of the foot) > > > This old review led me to seek them out: > > >http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/prodreview/newproduct/lewedge > > > Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- > Patrick Moore > Albuquerque, NM > For professional resumes, contact > Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
Yeah, I don't know if you'd lose any function by using a home made shim, a small washer or something. They weren't a ton of money though, and the instructions and versatility (each shim is very thin and thus they can be customized by stacking them) made them a worthy investment to me... ...they addressed exactly the sort of shoe issue you describe, Patrick, FWIW. Steve -Original Message- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of PATRICK MOORE Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here This is excellent information. I have, with most shoes and pedals, a chronic "burn" -cum- "ache" on the outside of my left foot thanks, I think, to a foot that is canted outward. I know that, when I deliberately cant the foot inward, it relieves the slight but real pain. I must try a shim under my cleats -- don't see why you need to pay for a specially made device for this purpose. Odd, but old Shimano M540s and M520s are more comfortable in this respect than any other pedals I've used including platforms and wide MKS Tourings. But these don't have the cachet of newer, shinier and lighter pedals that make me go faster. On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Frederick, Steve wrote: > On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:21 -0700, andrew hill wrote: >> I do have some kneed problems on one side, especially an IT band >> problem that cropped after a century in June.. perhaps less bend would >> help that. >> > Steve P. suggested: > >>Or a higher Q. > > > Or LeWedges. I got a packet of these a couple of weeks ago and they've made > a noticeable difference in my pedaling comfort and efficiency. Knee pain is > getting better and shoe comfort is improved, too. (less pressure/rubbing on > the little toe side of the foot) > > This old review led me to seek them out: > > http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/prodreview/newproduct/lewedge.html > > Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
Curious: what VO products did you have that wore out thus quickly? I recently bought some VO butterfly cages; pretty and a good shape, but very, very flexy. But the Retros seem stiff and sturdy. The other VO stuff I've bought seems decent if not outstanding. On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:33 AM, scott wrote: > I hope this means some folks will be selling off their XD-2's on the > list. I like having a triple, even if I almost never use the smallest > ring. Doesn't hurt anything in my book. I personally stopped buying > VO products after having things break or wear badly or just seem cheap > in real life with regular use. Pretty stuff, but not good for my > lifestyle. > > On Aug 20, 10:36 am, "Frederick, Steve" > wrote: >> On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:21 -0700, andrew hill wrote: >> > I do have some kneed problems on one side, especially an IT band >> > problem that cropped after a century in June.. perhaps less bend would >> > help that. >> >> Steve P. suggested: >> >> >Or a higher Q. >> >> Or LeWedges. I got a packet of these a couple of weeks ago and they've made >> a noticeable difference in my pedaling comfort and efficiency. Knee pain is >> getting better and shoe comfort is improved, too. (less pressure/rubbing on >> the little toe side of the foot) >> >> This old review led me to seek them out: >> >> http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/prodreview/newproduct/lewedge >> >> Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
This is excellent information. I have, with most shoes and pedals, a chronic "burn" -cum- "ache" on the outside of my left foot thanks, I think, to a foot that is canted outward. I know that, when I deliberately cant the foot inward, it relieves the slight but real pain. I must try a shim under my cleats -- don't see why you need to pay for a specially made device for this purpose. Odd, but old Shimano M540s and M520s are more comfortable in this respect than any other pedals I've used including platforms and wide MKS Tourings. But these don't have the cachet of newer, shinier and lighter pedals that make me go faster. On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Frederick, Steve wrote: > On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:21 -0700, andrew hill wrote: >> I do have some kneed problems on one side, especially an IT band >> problem that cropped after a century in June.. perhaps less bend would >> help that. >> > Steve P. suggested: > >>Or a higher Q. > > > Or LeWedges. I got a packet of these a couple of weeks ago and they've made > a noticeable difference in my pedaling comfort and efficiency. Knee pain is > getting better and shoe comfort is improved, too. (less pressure/rubbing on > the little toe side of the foot) > > This old review led me to seek them out: > > http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/prodreview/newproduct/lewedge.html > > Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:21 -0700, andrew hill wrote: > I do have some kneed problems on one side, especially an IT band > problem that cropped after a century in June.. perhaps less bend would > help that. > Steve P. suggested: >Or a higher Q. Or LeWedges. I got a packet of these a couple of weeks ago and they've made a noticeable difference in my pedaling comfort and efficiency. Knee pain is getting better and shoe comfort is improved, too. (less pressure/rubbing on the little toe side of the foot) This old review led me to seek them out: http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/prodreview/newproduct/lewedge.html Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 6:57 AM, Ken Freeman wrote: > I don't know about pruckelshaus, but I find that a 170 and a 172.5 feel > significantly different and it is important on a long ride. I agree - though for me it works the other way around (i.e. 170 feels much better - 165 feels better still.) I definitely understand the unwillingness to re-acclimate when you've found what works for you! I've tried all three lengths in one particular crank (Superbe Pro) and found that I seem to be fairly sensitive to crank length - probably moreso than Q factor. If I were in the market for a crankset these - in 165 - would be an easy choice for me. Even though I'm not in the market they're still tempting :) -Ken -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
I don't know about pruckelshaus, but I find that a 170 and a 172.5 feel significantly different and it is important on a long ride. I'm unfortunately in the camp of not willing to purchase a 170 or 175 while I'm acclimated to a 172.5. I may choose to attempt to re-acclimate to a 170, but it's not in my plans. So, this puts the V-O crank out of bounds for me, just on a practical basis. On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:00 -0700, pruckelshaus wrote: > > Yes, but it's too bad that Chris has decided that nobody needs to ride > > 172.5mm cranks. He's a fool for making that kind of decision, and has > > certainly lost a good amount of business because of it...including my > > own. This would be the perfect crank for my needs, if only it were > > available as a 172.5. > > Are you saying a 170 wouldn't work for you? > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:00 -0700, pruckelshaus wrote: > Yes, but it's too bad that Chris has decided that nobody needs to ride > 172.5mm cranks. He's a fool for making that kind of decision, and has > certainly lost a good amount of business because of it...including my > own. This would be the perfect crank for my needs, if only it were > available as a 172.5. Are you saying a 170 wouldn't work for you? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:21 -0700, andrew hill wrote: > I do have some kneed problems on one side, especially an IT band > problem that cropped after a century in June.. perhaps less bend would > help that. > Or a higher Q. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
I'm curious about this too. Peter White has a long thing about crank length on his site, in the bike fit bit. I should read that... Rob in Seattle Sent from my iPhone On Aug 19, 2010, at 11:21 PM, andrew hill wrote: > > Why do you like em, Pete? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: VO 50.4 BCD Crankset is here
I don't really understand about crank length and it's benefits. My gut says that with short legs I'd benefit from shorter cranks, but I've always used 175 (2 mtn bikes and 1 Riv Sam). I do have some kneed problems on one side, especially an IT band problem that cropped after a century in June.. perhaps less bend would help that. Why do you like em, Pete? best, andrew On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:00 PM, pruckelshaus wrote: > Yes, but it's too bad that Chris has decided that nobody needs to ride > 172.5mm cranks. He's a fool for making that kind of decision, and has > certainly lost a good amount of business because of it...including my > own. This would be the perfect crank for my needs, if only it were > available as a 172.5. > > Pete > > On Aug 9, 11:04 pm, Michael_S wrote: >> The new 50.4 bcd TA Cyclotourist copy crankset is now in stock at VO. >> Looks very nice and shiny! The stock 46-30 combo seems like it would >> work well most flatter places. Though it seems like 46t ring would get >> a lot use to me since the 30 would only be needed climbing? What >> freewheel/cassette do most people run in hilly areas with this set? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
