subject:"Re\: \[RBW\] Winter cycling pants"

Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-07 Thread Deacon Patrick

I agree, as a short term solution, well worth trying.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, October 7, 2013 8:43:02 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> my only point remains - if your knee is hurting in a ride, stop and hydrate
>
> On Monday, October 7, 2013 9:30:15 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure what exactly you're responding to Ron, since the quoted text 
>> below isn't mine. For me, eliminating grains, veggie oils, sugar, and 
>> processed food "mid-road" in my late 30's was highly effective. I dropped 
>> nearly 100 pounds, have greater brain energy, and numerous other 
>> improvements. And I do drink water, just not nearly as much (over the 
>> course of my recent bikepacking trip with Steve, I drank about 1/3 of what 
>> he did). You may find the book "Waterlogged" by Dr. Noakes intriguing. 
>> http://www.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serious-Problem-Overhydration-Endurance/dp/145042497X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381156183&sr=8-1&keywords=waterlogged
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Monday, October 7, 2013 8:13:45 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> Deac I love you man, but altering your diet in the middle of the road is 
>>> less than effective.  Stopping to drink water is easy - even smart.  
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:25:16 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:

 Wait, that's a personal opinion, not allowed according to list police!  
 ;-) 
 On Oct 6, 2013 10:07 PM, "Rod Holland"  wrote:

> I've had good luck with Sport Hill 3P XC pants, with a merino wool 
> base layer as needed. Plenty warm enough for tbe worst that Massachusetts 
> winters dish out.
>
> rod
>
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-07 Thread Ron Mc

my only point remains - if your knee is hurting in a ride, stop and hydrate

On Monday, October 7, 2013 9:30:15 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what exactly you're responding to Ron, since the quoted text 
> below isn't mine. For me, eliminating grains, veggie oils, sugar, and 
> processed food "mid-road" in my late 30's was highly effective. I dropped 
> nearly 100 pounds, have greater brain energy, and numerous other 
> improvements. And I do drink water, just not nearly as much (over the 
> course of my recent bikepacking trip with Steve, I drank about 1/3 of what 
> he did). You may find the book "Waterlogged" by Dr. Noakes intriguing. 
> http://www.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serious-Problem-Overhydration-Endurance/dp/145042497X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381156183&sr=8-1&keywords=waterlogged
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Monday, October 7, 2013 8:13:45 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> Deac I love you man, but altering your diet in the middle of the road is 
>> less than effective.  Stopping to drink water is easy - even smart.  
>>
>> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:25:16 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
>>>
>>> Wait, that's a personal opinion, not allowed according to list police!  
>>> ;-) 
>>> On Oct 6, 2013 10:07 PM, "Rod Holland"  wrote:
>>>
 I've had good luck with Sport Hill 3P XC pants, with a merino wool base 
 layer as needed. Plenty warm enough for tbe worst that Massachusetts 
 winters dish out.

 rod

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>>>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-07 Thread Deacon Patrick

I'm not sure what exactly you're responding to Ron, since the quoted text 
below isn't mine. For me, eliminating grains, veggie oils, sugar, and 
processed food "mid-road" in my late 30's was highly effective. I dropped 
nearly 100 pounds, have greater brain energy, and numerous other 
improvements. And I do drink water, just not nearly as much (over the 
course of my recent bikepacking trip with Steve, I drank about 1/3 of what 
he did). You may find the book "Waterlogged" by Dr. Noakes 
intriguing. 
http://www.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serious-Problem-Overhydration-Endurance/dp/145042497X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381156183&sr=8-1&keywords=waterlogged

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, October 7, 2013 8:13:45 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Deac I love you man, but altering your diet in the middle of the road is 
> less than effective.  Stopping to drink water is easy - even smart.  
>
> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:25:16 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
>>
>> Wait, that's a personal opinion, not allowed according to list police!  
>> ;-) 
>> On Oct 6, 2013 10:07 PM, "Rod Holland"  wrote:
>>
>>> I've had good luck with Sport Hill 3P XC pants, with a merino wool base 
>>> layer as needed. Plenty warm enough for tbe worst that Massachusetts 
>>> winters dish out.
>>>
>>> rod
>>>
>>> --
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-07 Thread Ron Mc

Deac I love you man, but altering your diet in the middle of the road is 
less than effective.  Stopping to drink water is easy - even smart.  

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:25:16 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
>
> Wait, that's a personal opinion, not allowed according to list police!  
> ;-) 
> On Oct 6, 2013 10:07 PM, "Rod Holland" > 
> wrote:
>
>> I've had good luck with Sport Hill 3P XC pants, with a merino wool base 
>> layer as needed. Plenty warm enough for tbe worst that Massachusetts 
>> winters dish out.
>>
>> rod
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Peter Morgano

Wait, that's a personal opinion, not allowed according to list police!  ;-)
On Oct 6, 2013 10:07 PM, "Rod Holland"  wrote:

> I've had good luck with Sport Hill 3P XC pants, with a merino wool base
> layer as needed. Plenty warm enough for tbe worst that Massachusetts
> winters dish out.
>
> rod
>
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread hsmitham

Was just reading this thread and Peter M. Dude you made me laugh Try an 
Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer. ..what makes that so 
funny is that it's so true! My Android phone totally runs hot. Now my 
laughing at this comment does not negate the fact that people are different 
and generalizations are all false to include this one. Hey it made me laugh 
that's a wonderful thing.

~Hugh

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:11 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> Its actually science, but no one ever said you cant argue against 
> science.  Try an Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer. 
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Anne Paulson 
> > wrote:
>
>> Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
>> experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
>> extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
>> many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
>> iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
>> That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
>> my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
>> 40s.
>>
>> I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a
>> little annoying as well as silly.
>>
>> -- Anne
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
>> > 
>> wrote:
>> > I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your 
>> core is
>> > warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
>> in
>> > below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
>> have
>> > good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
>> >
>> > On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T." > 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
>> >>
>> >> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
>> and
>> >> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
>> >>
>> >> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
>> >> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
>> reports
>> >> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
>> >> there.
>> >>
>> >> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
>> >> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." 
>> You
>> >> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
>> >>
>> >> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
>> johns
>> >> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. 
>> If
>> >> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the 
>> right
>> >> level.
>> >>
>> >> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
>> your
>> >> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
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>> >> email to [email protected] .
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>>
>>
>> --
>> -- Anne Paulson
>>
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Patrick Moore

#1 is arch riding --ONONONONO!

#2 -- well, maybe.

But! Use what works for you. No G-D arches for me, but then I prolly don't
climb as high as you, anyway.


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Here are two good pictures of it:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/10077254556/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/10077255616/
>
> However you'd define that.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:39:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> So, perhaps we're much the same -- pedaling just behind the ball of the
>> foot? I find that cleats don't go far enough backward if the bolts have
>> wide heads (as on my Looks).
>>
>> At any rate, that's what I do.
>>
>> Anyway, for The Other Person, pedaling behind the ball of foot seems to
>> help at least two people.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>>
>>> I don't arch pedal, but rear forefoot and outer midfoot pedal, if that
>>> makes sense. When I do sit and torque (for rear traction), no knee issues.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:14:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope.
 But sitting and torquing is the danger.

 I just don't feel comfortable with Arch Over Pedal Spindle; it feels
 artificial. Note that this has nothing to do with No Retention -- I know of
 one man, not much my junior, who smokes his full susp, 11 sp peers on steep
 singletrack with a ss 29er and No Retention. It's arch pedaling that feels
 bad, to me. Foot on pedal slightly aft of ball of foot, with heel dropped,
 gives extra power and helps my left knee (my right knee is wholly
 unbothered by seated, high-torque climbing).


 On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:

> I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time
> standing.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Do you climb in big gears?
>>
>> I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the
>> muscles that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>>> With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot
>>> pedaling I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>  *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
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>>
>> Albuquerque, NM
>>
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Deacon Patrick

Here are two good pictures of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/10077254556/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/10077255616/

However you'd define that.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:39:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> So, perhaps we're much the same -- pedaling just behind the ball of the 
> foot? I find that cleats don't go far enough backward if the bolts have 
> wide heads (as on my Looks).
>
> At any rate, that's what I do.
>
> Anyway, for The Other Person, pedaling behind the ball of foot seems to 
> help at least two people.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Deacon Patrick 
> > wrote:
>
>> I don't arch pedal, but rear forefoot and outer midfoot pedal, if that 
>> makes sense. When I do sit and torque (for rear traction), no knee issues.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:14:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope. 
>>> But sitting and torquing is the danger. 
>>>
>>> I just don't feel comfortable with Arch Over Pedal Spindle; it feels 
>>> artificial. Note that this has nothing to do with No Retention -- I know of 
>>> one man, not much my junior, who smokes his full susp, 11 sp peers on steep 
>>> singletrack with a ss 29er and No Retention. It's arch pedaling that feels 
>>> bad, to me. Foot on pedal slightly aft of ball of foot, with heel dropped, 
>>> gives extra power and helps my left knee (my right knee is wholly 
>>> unbothered by seated, high-torque climbing).
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>>>
 I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time 
 standing.

 With abandon,
 Patrick


 On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

> Do you climb in big gears?
>
> I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles 
> that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.
>  
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
>> With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot 
>> pedaling I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.
>>
>>
> -- 
>  *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
> Certified Resume Writer
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> http://www.linkedin.com/in/**pat**rickmooreresumespec/
>
> Albuquerque, NM
>  
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Patrick Moore

So, perhaps we're much the same -- pedaling just behind the ball of the
foot? I find that cleats don't go far enough backward if the bolts have
wide heads (as on my Looks).

At any rate, that's what I do.

Anyway, for The Other Person, pedaling behind the ball of foot seems to
help at least two people.


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> I don't arch pedal, but rear forefoot and outer midfoot pedal, if that
> makes sense. When I do sit and torque (for rear traction), no knee issues.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:14:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope.
>> But sitting and torquing is the danger.
>>
>> I just don't feel comfortable with Arch Over Pedal Spindle; it feels
>> artificial. Note that this has nothing to do with No Retention -- I know of
>> one man, not much my junior, who smokes his full susp, 11 sp peers on steep
>> singletrack with a ss 29er and No Retention. It's arch pedaling that feels
>> bad, to me. Foot on pedal slightly aft of ball of foot, with heel dropped,
>> gives extra power and helps my left knee (my right knee is wholly
>> unbothered by seated, high-torque climbing).
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>>
>>> I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time
>>> standing.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Do you climb in big gears?

 I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles
 that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.


 On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote:

> With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot
> pedaling I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.
>
>
 --
  *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
 Certified Resume Writer
 http://resumespecialties.com/**i**ndex.html
 patric...@**resumespecialties.**com
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/**pat**rickmooreresumespec/

 Albuquerque, NM

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Deacon Patrick

I don't arch pedal, but rear forefoot and outer midfoot pedal, if that 
makes sense. When I do sit and torque (for rear traction), no knee issues.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:14:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope. But 
> sitting and torquing is the danger. 
>
> I just don't feel comfortable with Arch Over Pedal Spindle; it feels 
> artificial. Note that this has nothing to do with No Retention -- I know of 
> one man, not much my junior, who smokes his full susp, 11 sp peers on steep 
> singletrack with a ss 29er and No Retention. It's arch pedaling that feels 
> bad, to me. Foot on pedal slightly aft of ball of foot, with heel dropped, 
> gives extra power and helps my left knee (my right knee is wholly 
> unbothered by seated, high-torque climbing).
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick 
> > wrote:
>
>> I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time standing.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Do you climb in big gears?
>>>
>>> I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles 
>>> that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>>>
 With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling 
 I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.


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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Patrick Moore

Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope. But
sitting and torquing is the danger.

I just don't feel comfortable with Arch Over Pedal Spindle; it feels
artificial. Note that this has nothing to do with No Retention -- I know of
one man, not much my junior, who smokes his full susp, 11 sp peers on steep
singletrack with a ss 29er and No Retention. It's arch pedaling that feels
bad, to me. Foot on pedal slightly aft of ball of foot, with heel dropped,
gives extra power and helps my left knee (my right knee is wholly
unbothered by seated, high-torque climbing).


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time standing.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Do you climb in big gears?
>>
>> I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles
>> that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>>
>>> With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling
>>> I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.
>>>
>>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Deacon Patrick

I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time standing.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Do you climb in big gears?
>
> I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles 
> that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick 
> > wrote:
>
>> With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling I 
>> have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.
>>
>>
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>
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>  

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Patrick Moore

Do you climb in big gears?

I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles that
operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling I
> have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Deacon Patrick

With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling I 
have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 3:13:39 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> This remark has nothing to do with winter pants, but it does bear on knee 
> pain. 
>
> Ever since my high school days, when I believed that shifting to the 
> smaller ring to climb hills was sissy, I've had a twinge in my left knee 
> after just a bit of torquing a high gear up a hill while seated. (My first 
> complete build, circa 1971, age 15 or 16, had a 50t ring and a 15 t cog.) A 
> month or so ago, during an otherwise very pleasant and scenic gravel ride 
> with 17 miles of climbing outbound (return in less than 1 hour versus the 2 
> hours oubound!) my left knee complained loud and long. 
>
> It was almost instinctive to force myself to pedal by dropping my heel at 
> the bottom of the stroke; sure enough, I found and continue to find that 
> this goes a considerable way toward keeping the knee pain at bay. (As a fan 
> of fixed gear riding who rides in rolling terrain, I've also learned to 
> stand early, as soon as the slope starts to bog me down while sitting.)
>
> This afternoon, for example, I pushed a 75" gear against a slight headwind 
> and up a very steep 1.3 km, and seasoned things with another 3 miles of 
> more gradual climbing -- always being careful to drop my left heel if I was 
> seated while applying heavy torque. Now, 1 1/2 hour later, when my left 
> knee would in the past be bothering me -- no twinge atall.
>
> Knee covered by Nashbar Nickers at 65*F, too.
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Patrick Moore

This remark has nothing to do with winter pants, but it does bear on knee
pain.

Ever since my high school days, when I believed that shifting to the
smaller ring to climb hills was sissy, I've had a twinge in my left knee
after just a bit of torquing a high gear up a hill while seated. (My first
complete build, circa 1971, age 15 or 16, had a 50t ring and a 15 t cog.) A
month or so ago, during an otherwise very pleasant and scenic gravel ride
with 17 miles of climbing outbound (return in less than 1 hour versus the 2
hours oubound!) my left knee complained loud and long.

It was almost instinctive to force myself to pedal by dropping my heel at
the bottom of the stroke; sure enough, I found and continue to find that
this goes a considerable way toward keeping the knee pain at bay. (As a fan
of fixed gear riding who rides in rolling terrain, I've also learned to
stand early, as soon as the slope starts to bog me down while sitting.)

This afternoon, for example, I pushed a 75" gear against a slight headwind
and up a very steep 1.3 km, and seasoned things with another 3 miles of
more gradual climbing -- always being careful to drop my left heel if I was
seated while applying heavy torque. Now, 1 1/2 hour later, when my left
knee would in the past be bothering me -- no twinge atall.

Knee covered by Nashbar Nickers at 65*F, too.

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Steve Palincsar


On 10/06/2013 09:51 AM, Deacon Patrick wrote:

"dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain"

I've never heard this. Could you please elaborate?



I was told by an orthopaedist when you're dehydrated your cartilege 
shrinks and if it's marginal hey presto, there's your knee pain!


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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Philip Williamson

You know how you argue against science? You present evidence that doesn't 
support the theory. 
And... Actually, that's just More Science. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Deacon Patrick

In my personal experience and that of many others eliminating grains, 
veggie oils, and processed foods eliminated issues of inflammation. Helped 
a lot of others as well. Also, in my experience, eliminating those from my 
diet greatly decreased my need for constant water.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:05:14 AM UTC-6, RJM wrote:
>
> Really?  I would like to hear more about that. 
>  
> I sometimes have terrible knee pain in my left knee but have always 
> chalked it up to the fact I sprained it 15 years ago and it just flares up. 
> If I can find a natural, non-doctor/drug way of alleviating the pain, I 
> would love to. 
>  
>  
>
> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
>> ps - dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain - if your knee hurts, 
>> stop and hydrate
>>
>> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:52:29 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> base layer, insulation layer, wind block - a dictated by the temps and 
>>> wind chill.  Just this morning, I purchased a merino wool base layer, top 
>>> and bottom, plus an extra pair of merino wool boxer briefs for $97 shipped 
>>> from sierratradingpost.  here was the extra 35% off keycode FNW5634Y good 
>>> through Monday.  I just searched men merino on the stp website.  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:18:38 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:

 I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your 
 core is warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core 
 and in below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If 
 you have good core layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
 On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:

>
>
> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 
>
> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
> and bandages on might just make it feel worse. 
>
> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
> reports 
> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
> there. 
>
> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be 
> beat. Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying 
> suit." 
> You don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 
>
> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
> johns with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal 
> harder. If you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool 
> to 
> the right level. 
>
> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
> your quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread RJM

Really?  I would like to hear more about that. 

I sometimes have terrible knee pain in my left knee but have always chalked 
it up to the fact I sprained it 15 years ago and it just flares up. If I 
can find a natural, non-doctor/drug way of alleviating the pain, I would 
love to. 

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

> ps - dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain - if your knee hurts, 
> stop and hydrate
>
> On Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:52:29 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> base layer, insulation layer, wind block - a dictated by the temps and 
>> wind chill.  Just this morning, I purchased a merino wool base layer, top 
>> and bottom, plus an extra pair of merino wool boxer briefs for $97 shipped 
>> from sierratradingpost.  here was the extra 35% off keycode FNW5634Y good 
>> through Monday.  I just searched men merino on the stp website.  
>>
>> On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:18:38 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
>>>
>>> I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core 
>>> is warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
>>> in below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
>>> have good core layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
>>> On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
>>>

 I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 

 Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
 and bandages on might just make it feel worse. 

 You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
 degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
 reports 
 from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
 there. 

 For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
 Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You 
 don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 

 For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
 johns with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal 
 harder. If you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool 
 to 
 the right level. 

 Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
 your quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 

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>>>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread clayton bailey

Thanks Ron for the discount code. I have been riding in cold weather now for 25 
years. I have lived most of that time in the mountains, but now live in Bend 
Oregon. I have not been payin' attention to the newest and coolest technical 
fabrics. I appreciate your advice on the wool.




On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:52 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:
 
base layer, insulation layer, wind block - a dictated by the temps and wind 
chill.  Just this morning, I purchased a merino wool base layer, top and 
bottom, plus an extra pair of merino wool boxer briefs for $97 shipped from 
sierratradingpost.  here was the extra 35% off keycode FNW5634Y good through 
Monday.  I just searched men merino on the stp website.  

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:18:38 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core is 
warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in below 
freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you have good core 
layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
>On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 
>>
>>Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and 
>>bandages on might just make it feel worse. 
>>
>>You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 degrees 
>>fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports from the 
>>beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress there. 
>>
>>For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
>>Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You 
>>don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 
>>
>>For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns with 
>>some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If you 
>>start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right level. 
>>
>>Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your 
>>quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Deacon Patrick

"dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain"

I've never heard this. Could you please elaborate?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:01:52 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> ps - dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain - if your knee hurts, 
> stop and hydrate
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Ron Mc

ps - dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain - if your knee hurts, 
stop and hydrate

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:52:29 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> base layer, insulation layer, wind block - a dictated by the temps and 
> wind chill.  Just this morning, I purchased a merino wool base layer, top 
> and bottom, plus an extra pair of merino wool boxer briefs for $97 shipped 
> from sierratradingpost.  here was the extra 35% off keycode FNW5634Y good 
> through Monday.  I just searched men merino on the stp website.  
>
> On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:18:38 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
>>
>> I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core 
>> is warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
>> in below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
>> have good core layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
>> On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 
>>>
>>> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
>>> and bandages on might just make it feel worse. 
>>>
>>> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
>>> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports 
>>> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
>>> there. 
>>>
>>> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
>>> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You 
>>> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 
>>>
>>> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns 
>>> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If 
>>> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right 
>>> level. 
>>>
>>> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
>>> your quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to [email protected].
>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Ron Mc

base layer, insulation layer, wind block - a dictated by the temps and wind 
chill.  Just this morning, I purchased a merino wool base layer, top and 
bottom, plus an extra pair of merino wool boxer briefs for $97 shipped from 
sierratradingpost.  here was the extra 35% off keycode FNW5634Y good 
through Monday.  I just searched men merino on the stp website.  

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:18:38 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
>
> I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core 
> is warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
> in below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
> have good core layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
> On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T." > 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 
>>
>> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
>> and bandages on might just make it feel worse. 
>>
>> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
>> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports 
>> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
>> there. 
>>
>> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
>> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You 
>> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 
>>
>> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns 
>> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If 
>> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right 
>> level. 
>>
>> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
>> your quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to [email protected] .
>> To post to this group, send email to 
>> [email protected]
>> .
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Deacon Patrick

Hey Tim, it is science, though poorly worded representation of the concept. 
The scientific principle is that if we are working enough to generate extra 
heat (more than our core needs), our body releases the warm blood tot he 
extremities to both warm them up and cool it off so we don't overheat; 
thus, if we wear enough to keep our core warm we don't need as many layers 
on the extremities. This is of course relative to every person, their 
circulation, acclimatization, etc.

Anne, I think some people simply acclimatize better than others. in SUmmer, 
I need a sweater at 50-60˚F just sitting around (depending on sun), but in 
winter with those same temps, I'm happy in a t-shirt. Yet I know folks who 
have never grown used to winter here and, like you, are always cold. 
Fascinating differences. 

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 3:20:50 PM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> Did you actually mean to say that?  Because, you know, condescending to 
> Anne and also incorrect.  
>
> The notion of "if your core is warm, your extremities are warm" is not 
> scientifically valid.  It's folklore and ignores- for one thing- the 
> science of thermal radiation and- for another- variations in circulatory 
> capacity in the limbs.  You can have a nice warm core and still frostbite 
> your fingers and toes. 
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Peter Morgano > 
> wrote:
>
> Its actually science, but no one ever said you cant argue against 
> science.  Try an Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer. 
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Anne Paulson 
> > wrote:
>
>> Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
>> experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
>> extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
>> many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
>> iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
>> That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
>> my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
>> 40s.
>>
>> I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a
>> little annoying as well as silly.
>>
>> -- Anne
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
>> > 
>> wrote:
>> > I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your 
>> core is
>> > warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
>> in
>> > below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
>> have
>> > good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
>> >
>> > On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T." > 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
>> >>
>> >> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
>> and
>> >> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
>> >>
>> >> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
>> >> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
>> reports
>> >> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
>> >> there.
>> >>
>> >> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
>> >> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." 
>> You
>> >> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
>> >>
>> >> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
>> johns
>> >> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. 
>> If
>> >> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the 
>> right
>> >> level.
>> >>
>> >> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
>> your
>> >> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups
>> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an
>> >> email to [email protected] .
>> >> To post to this group, send email to 
>> >> [email protected]
>> .
>> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an
>> > email to [email protected] .
>> > To post to this group, send email to 
>> > [email protected]
>> .
>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -- Anne Paulson
>>
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsu

Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Peter Morgano

Personally I was listening to this guy, but what does he know?

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/01/15/staying-warm/
On Oct 5, 2013 5:38 PM, "Peter Morgano"  wrote:

> Wow, this is the last I comment on this thread but I don't think anyone
> called anyone stupid or told them they don't feel how they feel. Seems like
> you just hyper personalized the issue. If people can't comment on their
> personal experiences because they might offending someone then it's a
> pretty sad state of affairs.
> On Oct 5, 2013 5:28 PM, "Anne Paulson"  wrote:
>
>> I kinda wonder about acclimation. I live in sunny California now, but
>> I grew up in New Jersey, where it sometimes snows in the winter, and I
>> went to college in Rhode Island, where it tends to be 33 degrees and
>> raining in the winter. And I never acclimated. I was just always cold
>> in the winter.
>>
>> Y'know, when people say they find helmets hot, or they find rainpants
>> hot when it rains, I don't say "You're wrong! I don't find helmets
>> hot, so you must not find them hot either. I don't find rainpants hot
>> in a cold rain, so you must not find them hot either. You're just so
>> stupid that you don't know what you feel." 'Cause I realize that
>> different people are different.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Deacon Patrick 
>> wrote:
>> > Good point, Anne, though the principle is still at work for you;
>> however,
>> > people have different circulation systems and sitting still in a tent is
>> > different than a body in motion generating a lot more heat and pumping
>> a lot
>> > more volume of blood from the core to the extremities. Also, we
>> acclimatize
>> > to where we live, so when warm blooded folks come to the mountains they
>> are
>> > freezing. For me, there is a switch in my brain that gets turned off (or
>> > on?) when I'm brain fatigued and I can't generate heat at all. Even if
>> it's
>> > 80˚F I'm in a sweater and shivering and extremities are freezing. We
>> knew I
>> > wasn't doing well on fire evacuation in The Utah desert at 100+˚F and I
>> was
>> > comfortable and not sweating at all. Sardonic grin.
>> >
>> > With abandon,
>> > Patrick
>> >
>> >
>> > On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:42 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
>> >> experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
>> >> extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
>> >> many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
>> >> iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
>> >> That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
>> >> my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
>> >> 40s.
>> >>
>> >> I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a
>> >> little annoying as well as silly.
>> >>
>> >> -- Anne
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your
>> core
>> >> > is
>> >> > warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core
>> and
>> >> > in
>> >> > below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you
>> >> > have
>> >> > good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting
>> wraps
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
>> >> >> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride
>> >> >> reports
>> >> >> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes
>> overdress
>> >> >> there.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be
>> beat.
>> >> >> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit."
>> >> >> You
>> >> >> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long
>> >> >> johns
>> >> >> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal
>> harder.
>> >> >> If
>> >> >> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the
>> >> >> right
>> >> >> level.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build
>> up
>> >> >> your
>> >> >> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >> >> Groups
>> >> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send
>> >> >> an
>> >> >> email to [email protected].
>> >> >> To post to this group, send email

Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Peter Morgano

Wow, this is the last I comment on this thread but I don't think anyone
called anyone stupid or told them they don't feel how they feel. Seems like
you just hyper personalized the issue. If people can't comment on their
personal experiences because they might offending someone then it's a
pretty sad state of affairs.
On Oct 5, 2013 5:28 PM, "Anne Paulson"  wrote:

> I kinda wonder about acclimation. I live in sunny California now, but
> I grew up in New Jersey, where it sometimes snows in the winter, and I
> went to college in Rhode Island, where it tends to be 33 degrees and
> raining in the winter. And I never acclimated. I was just always cold
> in the winter.
>
> Y'know, when people say they find helmets hot, or they find rainpants
> hot when it rains, I don't say "You're wrong! I don't find helmets
> hot, so you must not find them hot either. I don't find rainpants hot
> in a cold rain, so you must not find them hot either. You're just so
> stupid that you don't know what you feel." 'Cause I realize that
> different people are different.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
> > Good point, Anne, though the principle is still at work for you; however,
> > people have different circulation systems and sitting still in a tent is
> > different than a body in motion generating a lot more heat and pumping a
> lot
> > more volume of blood from the core to the extremities. Also, we
> acclimatize
> > to where we live, so when warm blooded folks come to the mountains they
> are
> > freezing. For me, there is a switch in my brain that gets turned off (or
> > on?) when I'm brain fatigued and I can't generate heat at all. Even if
> it's
> > 80˚F I'm in a sweater and shivering and extremities are freezing. We
> knew I
> > wasn't doing well on fire evacuation in The Utah desert at 100+˚F and I
> was
> > comfortable and not sweating at all. Sardonic grin.
> >
> > With abandon,
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:42 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:
> >>
> >> Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
> >> experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
> >> extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
> >> many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
> >> iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
> >> That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
> >> my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
> >> 40s.
> >>
> >> I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a
> >> little annoying as well as silly.
> >>
> >> -- Anne
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
> >> wrote:
> >> > I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your
> core
> >> > is
> >> > warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and
> >> > in
> >> > below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you
> >> > have
> >> > good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
> >> >
> >> > On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting
> wraps
> >> >> and
> >> >> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
> >> >>
> >> >> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
> >> >> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride
> >> >> reports
> >> >> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes
> overdress
> >> >> there.
> >> >>
> >> >> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be
> beat.
> >> >> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit."
> >> >> You
> >> >> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
> >> >>
> >> >> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long
> >> >> johns
> >> >> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal
> harder.
> >> >> If
> >> >> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the
> >> >> right
> >> >> level.
> >> >>
> >> >> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up
> >> >> your
> >> >> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> >> Groups
> >> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> >> >> an
> >> >> email to [email protected].
> >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> >> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> > Groups
> >> > "RBW Owner

Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Anne Paulson

I kinda wonder about acclimation. I live in sunny California now, but
I grew up in New Jersey, where it sometimes snows in the winter, and I
went to college in Rhode Island, where it tends to be 33 degrees and
raining in the winter. And I never acclimated. I was just always cold
in the winter.

Y'know, when people say they find helmets hot, or they find rainpants
hot when it rains, I don't say "You're wrong! I don't find helmets
hot, so you must not find them hot either. I don't find rainpants hot
in a cold rain, so you must not find them hot either. You're just so
stupid that you don't know what you feel." 'Cause I realize that
different people are different.


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
> Good point, Anne, though the principle is still at work for you; however,
> people have different circulation systems and sitting still in a tent is
> different than a body in motion generating a lot more heat and pumping a lot
> more volume of blood from the core to the extremities. Also, we acclimatize
> to where we live, so when warm blooded folks come to the mountains they are
> freezing. For me, there is a switch in my brain that gets turned off (or
> on?) when I'm brain fatigued and I can't generate heat at all. Even if it's
> 80˚F I'm in a sweater and shivering and extremities are freezing. We knew I
> wasn't doing well on fire evacuation in The Utah desert at 100+˚F and I was
> comfortable and not sweating at all. Sardonic grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:42 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>
>> Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
>> experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
>> extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
>> many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
>> iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
>> That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
>> my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
>> 40s.
>>
>> I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a
>> little annoying as well as silly.
>>
>> -- Anne
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
>> wrote:
>> > I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core
>> > is
>> > warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and
>> > in
>> > below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you
>> > have
>> > good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
>> >
>> > On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
>> >>
>> >> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps
>> >> and
>> >> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
>> >>
>> >> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
>> >> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride
>> >> reports
>> >> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
>> >> there.
>> >>
>> >> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
>> >> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit."
>> >> You
>> >> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
>> >>
>> >> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long
>> >> johns
>> >> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder.
>> >> If
>> >> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the
>> >> right
>> >> level.
>> >>
>> >> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up
>> >> your
>> >> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >> Groups
>> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> >> an
>> >> email to [email protected].
>> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> > an
>> > email to [email protected].
>> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -- Anne Paulson
>>
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receivin

Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Tim McNamara

Did you actually mean to say that?  Because, you know, condescending to Anne 
and also incorrect.  

The notion of "if your core is warm, your extremities are warm" is not 
scientifically valid.  It's folklore and ignores- for one thing- the science of 
thermal radiation and- for another- variations in circulatory capacity in the 
limbs.  You can have a nice warm core and still frostbite your fingers and 
toes. 



> On Oct 5, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Peter Morgano  wrote:
> 
> Its actually science, but no one ever said you cant argue against science.  
> Try an Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer.
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Anne Paulson  wrote:
>> Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
>> experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
>> extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
>> many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
>> iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
>> That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
>> my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
>> 40s.
>> 
>> I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a
>> little annoying as well as silly.
>> 
>> -- Anne
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano  
>> wrote:
>> > I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core is
>> > warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in
>> > below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you have
>> > good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
>> >
>> > On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
>> >>
>> >> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and
>> >> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
>> >>
>> >> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
>> >> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
>> >> reports
>> >> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
>> >> there.
>> >>
>> >> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
>> >> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You
>> >> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
>> >>
>> >> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns
>> >> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If
>> >> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right
>> >> level.
>> >>
>> >> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your
>> >> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> >> email to [email protected].
>> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> > email to [email protected].
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>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> -- Anne Paulson
>> 
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>> 
>> --
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Deacon Patrick

Good point, Anne, though the principle is still at work for you; however, 
people have different circulation systems and sitting still in a tent is 
different than a body in motion generating a lot more heat and pumping a 
lot more volume of blood from the core to the extremities. Also, we 
acclimatize to where we live, so when warm blooded folks come to the 
mountains they are freezing. For me, there is a switch in my brain that 
gets turned off (or on?) when I'm brain fatigued and I can't generate heat 
at all. Even if it's 80˚F I'm in a sweater and shivering and extremities 
are freezing. We knew I wasn't doing well on fire evacuation in The Utah 
desert at 100+˚F and I was comfortable and not sweating at all. Sardonic 
grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:42 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> Can I just request that people not generalize from their own 
> experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your 
> extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for 
> many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my 
> iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves. 
> That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them, 
> my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the 
> 40s. 
>
> I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a 
> little annoying as well as silly. 
>
> -- Anne 
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
> > 
> wrote: 
> > I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core 
> is 
> > warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
> in 
> > below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
> have 
> > good core layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
> > 
> > On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T." > 
> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 
> >> 
> >> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
> and 
> >> bandages on might just make it feel worse. 
> >> 
> >> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
> >> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
> reports 
> >> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
> >> there. 
> >> 
> >> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
> >> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." 
> You 
> >> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 
> >> 
> >> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
> johns 
> >> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. 
> If 
> >> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the 
> right 
> >> level. 
> >> 
> >> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
> your 
> >> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> >> email to [email protected] . 
> >> To post to this group, send email to 
> >> [email protected]. 
>
> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> > email to [email protected] . 
> > To post to this group, send email to 
> > [email protected]. 
>
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> -- Anne Paulson 
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Peter Morgano

Its actually science, but no one ever said you cant argue against science.
Try an Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer.


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Anne Paulson  wrote:

> Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
> experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
> extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
> many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
> iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
> That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
> my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
> 40s.
>
> I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a
> little annoying as well as silly.
>
> -- Anne
>
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
> wrote:
> > I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core
> is
> > warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in
> > below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you
> have
> > good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
> >
> > On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
> >>
> >> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps
> and
> >> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
> >>
> >> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
> >> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride
> reports
> >> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
> >> there.
> >>
> >> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
> >> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You
> >> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
> >>
> >> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns
> >> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder.
> If
> >> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the
> right
> >> level.
> >>
> >> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up
> your
> >> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an
> >> email to [email protected].
> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> > email to [email protected].
> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [email protected].
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Anne Paulson

Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
40s.

I find the "It works for me so it should work for you too" attitude a
little annoying as well as silly.

-- Anne

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano  wrote:
> I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core is
> warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in
> below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you have
> good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
>
> On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
>>
>> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and
>> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
>>
>> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
>> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports
>> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
>> there.
>>
>> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
>> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You
>> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
>>
>> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns
>> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If
>> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right
>> level.
>>
>> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your
>> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [email protected].
>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [email protected].
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



-- 
-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Peter Morgano

I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core is
warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in
below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you have
good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, "David T."  wrote:

>
>
> I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
>
> Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and
> bandages on might just make it feel worse.
>
> You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
> degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports
> from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
> there.
>
> For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
> Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You
> don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
>
> For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns
> with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If
> you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right
> level.
>
> Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your
> quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [email protected].
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
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>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread David T.



I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 

Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and 
bandages on might just make it feel worse. 

You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports 
from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
there. 

For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
Second hand, or even an old pair from a "marrying and burying suit." You 
don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 

For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns 
with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If 
you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right 
level. 

Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your 
quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 





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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-04 Thread Ron Mc

I'm happy with MUSA long pants, knee-length merino socks and merino wool 
knicker undies.  I shop sierratradingpost for most of my merino wool.  

On Friday, October 4, 2013 3:07:41 PM UTC-5, Dan wrote:
>
> Check out foxwear. Everything he does is custom so Lou can probably make 
> something similar to what you are looking for. I have a jacket, power 
> shield pants and rain pants from him and I am happy with all of them. His 
> prices are extremely reasonable considering the custom sizing and 
> materials. 
>
> Dan Abelson 
> On Oct 4, 2013 10:55 AM, "Clayton" > 
> wrote:
>
>> I have bum knees and the cold is locking them up. I am looking for 
>> recommendations for winter bicycling pants that are warm, water resistant, 
>> wind proof and have a full set of pockets. I'd like them to look like 
>> pants, not tights. Cheap would be nice. Right now, I have taken to wearing 
>> ACE knee wraps around my jeans. Not very comfy, but they do leave 
>> interesting wrinkles on my skin. I have been looking at softshell pants at 
>> Columbia and REI, but the price kinda makes me choke. I am hoping someone 
>> here has come up with an economical solution? Thanks in advance for your 
>> collective wisdom.
>> Clay
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> [email protected]
>> .
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>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-04 Thread Dan Abelson

Check out foxwear. Everything he does is custom so Lou can probably make
something similar to what you are looking for. I have a jacket, power
shield pants and rain pants from him and I am happy with all of them. His
prices are extremely reasonable considering the custom sizing and
materials.

Dan Abelson
On Oct 4, 2013 10:55 AM, "Clayton"  wrote:

> I have bum knees and the cold is locking them up. I am looking for
> recommendations for winter bicycling pants that are warm, water resistant,
> wind proof and have a full set of pockets. I'd like them to look like
> pants, not tights. Cheap would be nice. Right now, I have taken to wearing
> ACE knee wraps around my jeans. Not very comfy, but they do leave
> interesting wrinkles on my skin. I have been looking at softshell pants at
> Columbia and REI, but the price kinda makes me choke. I am hoping someone
> here has come up with an economical solution? Thanks in advance for your
> collective wisdom.
> Clay
>
> --
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>

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-04 Thread Patrick Moore

I've had made some very nice cycling knickers out of good quality men's
dress pants, wool and cotton (ie, khakis cut like wool dress pants). At the
simplest, I made them myself by simply cutting them off at the right length
and sewing on velcro or running a shoelace through the hem -- I wish I stll
had the pair of very nice tan wool gabardines I so altered. (I like mine
long so that cinched just under the knee, they bag enough not to bind when
you pedal -- the Tintin look.)

Dress pants tend to be fuller cut (pleats are nice) and higher rise, which
IMO and IME makes them more comfortable when riding bent over.

The nice thing about knickers is that with knee socks they give you double
protection at the knee. (And I had a lining sewn in to the front of two
pairs.)

I also bought a couple of Nashbar knickers on sale a couple of years ago:
$35 each, IIRC. No nonsense, heavy, black nylon canvas, do damned pad. Not
as nice as the wools, but still very nice. I seem to recall that Nashbar
has various knickers on sale right now.

Hell, for that matter, you can just wear long pants (not jeans! Ouch!) and
use a clip or strap at the ankle. I've got a pair of Riv's original MUSA
long pants that are nice when I don't want to wear tights or knickers.

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Clayton  wrote:

> I have bum knees and the cold is locking them up. I am looking for
> recommendations for winter bicycling pants that are warm, water resistant,
> wind proof and have a full set of pockets. I'd like them to look like
> pants, not tights. Cheap would be nice. Right now, I have taken to wearing
> ACE knee wraps around my jeans. Not very comfy, but they do leave
> interesting wrinkles on my skin. I have been looking at softshell pants at
> Columbia and REI, but the price kinda makes me choke. I am hoping someone
> here has come up with an economical solution? Thanks in advance for your
> collective wisdom.
> Clay
>
> --
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>

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