Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers
Larry: Thank you for the update on this intriguing product. It would be helpful if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will ever happen. Here's an idea: A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE equipment. Utopia or Chaos? William At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote: Colin, The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as Master Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems (928) 342-9103 http://www.starlightsolar.comwww.starlightsolar.com Retail Store Warehouse 2998 Shari Ave. Yuma, Az 85365 USPS Postal Mail Only 11881 S Fortuna Road, #210 Yuma, AZ 85367 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults
Mike: Is there such a tool as a DC clamp-on that can reliably measure 10 mA? My experience is any clamp meter is unreliable below 5A. William At 10:09 PM 5/23/2012, Mike Sullivan wrote: Hi Bob, Sorry if I am duplicating any of the replies you've already received regarding the possible ground fault. I think the best way to determine whether GFDI is tripping on 1 A ground current or 80 A circuit current is to use a sensitive DC clamp-on to check the current on your system ground under normal operation. If it is more than about 10 mA when things are dry, you probably do have a ground fault issue to resolve. Assuming that's true, I recommend that you buy, borrow or rent a megohm tester (like those by Megger) to check out your circuit wiring resistance. Once you fully isolate your strings at the combiner box, you can quickly zero in on where the fault lies -- just divide and conquer. You may need to wet down the array and wiring to make the fault more detectable. Often, the fault will be in wiring that was damaged when pulled from a splice or combiner box into conduit, esp. if there's no bushing on the conduit terminal adapter. A word of warning -- if you have more than one ground fault, some parts of your equipment grounding system will be carrying current, which may be sizable. Use precautions when disconnecting any wiring or grounds. A clamp-on is really useful here... Hope that helps! Cheers, Mike Sullivan Wrenches: ? Sorry to bring up this situation again, but I could not find a previous discussion thread that talked about step-by-step procedures for tracking down ground faults (I believe it was John Berdner who provided the bulk of the writing in that regard and it related to high voltage strings?not that 75-85 volts per string is all that low). ? We have an Outback FLEXpower Two system with 8, 3-module strings (Silicon Energy 190W, 25.3Vmp, 7.5 Imp) combined in a Midnite Solar MNPV12 combiner with breakers.? The cables from the array are routed to two different Wiley 4-string pass-through boxes (located under the two center strings) and then off of the roof and into the PV combiner. ? Up until this week the system has seen several weeks of awesome power production.? Yesterday, the rains came and the GFDI breaker tripped.? Every time it rains, the little green breaker on the GFDI trips off. ?That tells me that the ground fault is occurring in a place where at least one of the conductors on one of the strings (possibly more) is getting wet and conducting current to ground. ? It would seem to me that the most likely place for moisture to cause a ground fault to occur in this system would be in the pass-through boxes.? This would mean removing the central modules to access the pass-through boxes. ? Any of you who have mounted the Silicon Energy modules know that the cables are contained in trays along the side of the modules until they are routed through conduit to the pass-through boxes.? So, if there is current going to ground from any of these cables, it could even be occurring in any of the 9 trays along side of the modules.? I do not like the idea of tracking down a ground fault in one of these trays as they are all interconnected. ? How best (and safely) to track down where the ground fault is occurring?? Any advice as to the best and safest way to track down the ground fault(s) would be greatly appreciated. ? Bob Clark SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/5018 - Release Date: 05/23/12 18:41:00 Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Solar tariffs
I haven't seen much discussion about the tariffs, but I think the current plan is really an outrage. I've toured the SolarWorld factory twice and used many of their modules---I'd like to see US Solar manufacturers succeed, but I've also toured Chinese factories, and I'm thoroughly impressed by how well Chinese solar companies have invested and innovated. I don't think tariffs are the salvation for SolarWorld, and thanks to their misguided lobbying activities, they've now lost me as a potential customer. Sorry. I'm writing letters to the Pres, my senators, and my reps. Here's what I just wrote to the NY Times: Announced tariffs against Chinese Solar panels are bad public policy that only hurt the industry they intend to serve. Chinese solar companies now mass produce the best solar modules in the world, with falling prices and improving technology. Commendably, they've been passing along those savings, which makes solar affordable for more people, benefiting everyone. Having failed to scale their own production and cut manufacturing costs, there are only a few US-based solar manufactures, with a tiny share of total US solar industry jobs. That's unfortunate, but tariffs won't build sustainable business for companies that fail to innovate. The main part of the solar industry has always been integration; and that's why protective tariffs do more harm than good. They create uncertainty where it matters most: to users and installers of solar power. Until this ill-fated policy is dropped, the mere threat of tariffs slows all investments in solar, and that hurts everyone. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers
I second Larry's recommendation of Blue Sky charge controllers. I've used them for several years under some very adverse conditions, yet they've performed flawlessly. Support too has been excellent. Dan Sr. Engineer Exeltech --- On Wed, 5/23/12, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: From: Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, May 23, 2012, 11:54 PM Colin, The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as Master Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them. Larry CrutcherStarlight Solar Power Systems(928) 342-9103www.starlightsolar.com Retail Store Warehouse2998 Shari Ave.Yuma, Az 85365 USPS Postal Mail Only11881 S Fortuna Road, #210Yuma, AZ 85367 On May 23, 2012, at 6:47 PM, Colin Vogt wrote: Wrenches, What considerations are there for the number of charge controllers that can be in a stand-alone system with a single battery bank? If one uses MPPT controllers, then one would want (I think) a different controller for different module orientations. That is, if one had a couple modules at one azimuth/tilt angle you would have a controller for that, and another controller for a module at a different azimuth/tilt angle. Also, I can see having a controller to turn on yard lights (Morningstar makes one, although it is not an MPPT type and is of limited capacity). Could also one have a controller for diversion loads? And also a controller for a wind generator? So I can see where a stand-alone system might have 4 or maybe even more controllers, all tied into the same battery bank. Are there any considerations for a system like this? For instance, do the setpoints for all controllers need to match? Colin Vogt ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers
William and other wrenches, I have heard there may be an open-source solar (perhaps RE in general) data transfer protocol coming, that will allow for different manufacturers equipment to talk. This could allow for many possibilities, including expanding AC coupling opportunities, and transfer of data and settings. I don't really know any more details than maybe, perhaps, possibly, but I find the idea intriguing. Anyone else heard anything? Mac On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:46 PM, William Miller will...@millersolar.comwrote: Larry: Thank you for the update on this intriguing product. It would be helpful if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will ever happen. Here's an idea: A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE equipment. Utopia or Chaos? William At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote: Colin, The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as Master Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems (928) 342-9103 *www.starlightsolar.com Retail Store Warehouse *2998 Shari Ave. Yuma, Az 85365 *USPS Postal Mail Only *11881 S Fortuna Road, #210 Yuma, AZ 85367 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis * Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Finding ground faults
Yes. Look for 4-20mA loop clamp on meters. Fluke 77x series is an example: http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/Clamp-Meters/Fluke-771-Milliamp-Process-Clamp-Meter.htm?PID=69415 0 to 100mA with 1% accuracy worst case over the whole range. -James Jarvis APRS World, LLC On 05/24/2012 12:49 AM, William Miller wrote: Mike: Is there such a tool as a DC clamp-on that can reliably measure 10 mA? My experience is any clamp meter is unreliable below 5A. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers
I'm with you on that, William, a communications protocol for all RE productsoh, sorry, I was dreaming. Perhaps the new UCM bridge module will help. Here's a quote about it from this page http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ucm/ A standard Modbus RTU interface is provided both as isolated RS-485 and TCP\IP Ethernet based Modbus/IP. Additional Ethernet connectivity includes a built in HTTP web site server allowing data view and parameter setup with a standard web browser either locally, or globally over the Internet without a subscription. The ability for periodic real time FTP data upload to a remote server is also provided. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On May 23, 2012, at 10:46 PM, William Miller wrote: Larry: Thank you for the update on this intriguing product. It would be helpful if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will ever happen. Here's an idea: A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE equipment. Utopia or Chaos? William At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote: Colin, The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as Master Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems (928) 342-9103 www.starlightsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar tariffs
Hi William, Here is something else for you to stew about. The premise is that only China subsidizes its solar and we don't. In fact we do by our tax breaks for systems. So we don't at the point of manufacture, but we do for installs. In my view this is a direct subsidy, we just do it a different way. My 2 cents. Cheers, Jay peltz power On May 24, 2012, at 1:31 AM, William Korthof wrote: I haven't seen much discussion about the tariffs, but I think the current plan is really an outrage. I've toured the SolarWorld factory twice and used many of their modules---I'd like to see US Solar manufacturers succeed, but I've also toured Chinese factories, and I'm thoroughly impressed by how well Chinese solar companies have invested and innovated. I don't think tariffs are the salvation for SolarWorld, and thanks to their misguided lobbying activities, they've now lost me as a potential customer. Sorry. I'm writing letters to the Pres, my senators, and my reps. Here's what I just wrote to the NY Times: Announced tariffs against Chinese Solar panels are bad public policy that only hurt the industry they intend to serve. Chinese solar companies now mass produce the best solar modules in the world, with falling prices and improving technology. Commendably, they've been passing along those savings, which makes solar affordable for more people, benefiting everyone. Having failed to scale their own production and cut manufacturing costs, there are only a few US-based solar manufactures, with a tiny share of total US solar industry jobs. That's unfortunate, but tariffs won't build sustainable business for companies that fail to innovate. The main part of the solar industry has always been integration; and that's why protective tariffs do more harm than good. They create uncertainty where it matters most: to users and installers of solar power. Until this ill-fated policy is dropped, the mere threat of tariffs slows all investments in solar, and that hurts everyone. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar tariffs
Hi gang. There has been a discussion on the RE-Markets list, which is the right place for this. There you will find some folks knowledgeable on policy in addition to hands-on wrenches. Thanks. I haven't seen much discussion about the tariffs, but I think the current plan is really an outrage. I've toured the SolarWorld factory twice and used many of their modules---I'd like to see US Solar manufacturers succeed, but I've also toured Chinese factories, and I'm thoroughly impressed by how well Chinese solar companies have invested and innovated. I don't think tariffs are the salvation for SolarWorld, and thanks to their misguided lobbying activities, they've now lost me as a potential customer. Sorry. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Other lists that Wrenches may qualify for
Hi gang. Here are some other RE listservers that you may qualify for and find useful. If you have any questions, suggestions, comments, or concerns, please contact me off list. 1. RE-Markets This is for marketing, PR discussions, incentives topics, and other business discussions that do not belong on the RE-Wrenches list. This is a list with archives that are private to list members. All Wrench list members qualify for this list, including manufacturers and distributors. The RE-Markets list is managed by Bill Roush, and I manage the other lists mentioned below. Sign up here: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-markets-re-wrenches.org - - - - - - - 2. RE-Bitching List for complaining about anything RE (RE-Bitching), RE jokes, etc. It has member-only, private archives. Pro wrenches only qualify for this list. Sign up here: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-bitching-re-wrenches.org - - - - - - - 3. PV-Trades This list was started for discussions about a solar installers trade association. Private archives Only pro wrenches qualify for this list. Sign up here: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/pvtrades-re-wrenches.org - - - - - - - 4. Home-Wind-Tech This list is strictly for discussing technical and installation-business subjects for the home wind industry. Private archives. The following will qualify for membership: wind installers (this list is primarily intended to help them) wind manufacturer reps that are small-wind techies academics that are small-wind techies any NABCEP wind-certified individuals If you would like to participate in this wind list, just respond to me off list with the following info: Name: Email Address you wish to use for the wind list: Company: Your profession relative to small-wind: Your technical level in the industry: ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers
Maybe this organization will make some headway on the interoperability question. http://www.sunspec.org/ -Glenn Burt -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:35 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers I'm with you on that, William, a communications protocol for all RE productsoh, sorry, I was dreaming. Perhaps the new UCM bridge module will help. Here's a quote about it from this page http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ucm/ A standard Modbus RTU interface is provided both as isolated RS-485 and TCP\IP Ethernet based Modbus/IP. Additional Ethernet connectivity includes a built in HTTP web site server allowing data view and parameter setup with a standard web browser either locally, or globally over the Internet without a subscription. The ability for periodic real time FTP data upload to a remote server is also provided. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On May 23, 2012, at 10:46 PM, William Miller wrote: Larry: Thank you for the update on this intriguing product. It would be helpful if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will ever happen. Here's an idea: A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE equipment. Utopia or Chaos? William At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote: Colin, The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as Master Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems (928) 342-9103 www.starlightsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] NABCEP
NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked with our honorable moderator prior to posting this. If we are attempting to expand the field of certified installer and designers why is NABCEP run the way it is? Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a hotel etc, this is a joke. I may be in the minority but point to make here. Beyond that I became a wrench because I do not test well [avoided a 4 year degree] yet I can outline a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head and build it the first time correctly. The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local proctoring, libraries, schools, etc. 2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a variety of resources. Why can we not? When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of the test room. Why do we have to wait 6 weeks? The NEC book is the only reference material at the test when is not doing a trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From what I understand any number of professions and trades get to use several resource books. You would think we were going to be secret agents or the like. I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have not a clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to do the same. I am certified and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine but 100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a backup coach. Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master electrician yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked masters and they have had to go look up the answer. I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for 50kw and a separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a scheduled basis with you local librarian I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress, stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent on this much damaged product called certification. I see some major issues and would like to start a discussion about how it is managed. I think it needs rethinking. Thanks for considering your opinion? Dana Orzel - Great Solar Works, Inc - E - d...@solarwork.com - V 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 P Please consider the environment before printing this email ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP
Dana, I know where you live because I once lived there, and even worked with you for a short spell in 1994. It's called "mountain paradise", and you have been able to make a decent living there, doing well the work you love while living in the heart of it. Part of why it's paradise is that it's far from any big cities. Seems like a pretty fair tradeoff to me. As I understand it, there's a six week wait because the test is structured to meet national (ANSI?) standards for legitimate certification. The test is revised each time it's offered; each has some questions that are different from the last. All of the test question are checked for the number of incorrect answers, in order to determine if some questions are sufficiently misleading or confusing as to warrant being thrown out. That especially benefits someone such as yourself who doesn't test well. I'd love to see a separate certification for battery-based systems. I'd get that one too, as it would mean a much smaller crowd. I'd also like to see a separate certification for "Commercial GT over 50kW" - I wouldn't even try for that one. I see the typical electrician's exam, with its immediate results (for an additional "fee") as the joke. A skilled and knowledgeable electrician can pass it. A skilled test taker can get 25% right on that skill alone, and another 50% by taking one of the "no pass no pay" private test prep courses. You can't do that with the NABCEP Certification exam. To me that's a good thing. Methinks you complain too much, sir. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 5/24/2012 12:03 PM, Dana wrote: NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked with our honorable moderator prior to posting this. If we are attempting to expand the field of certified installer and designers why is NABCEP run the way it is? Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a hotel etc, this is a joke. I may be in the minority but point to make here. Beyond that I became a wrench because I do not test well [avoided a 4 year degree] yet I can outline a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head and build it the first time correctly. The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local proctoring, libraries, schools, etc. 2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a variety of resources. Why can we not? When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of the test room. Why do we have to wait 6 weeks? The NEC book is the only reference material at the test when is not doing a trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From what I understand any number of professions and trades get to use several resource books. You would think we were going to be secret agents or the like. I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have not a clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to do the same. I am "certified" and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine but 100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a backup coach. Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master electrician yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked masters and they have had to go look up the answer. I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for 50kw and a separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a scheduled basis with you local librarian I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress, stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent on this much damaged product called certification. I see some major issues
Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers
After looking at their Member section, it seems unlikely that they are pursuing the off grid portion of the industry. I see that Outback Power is a member but the rest are related to grid tie. Larry On May 24, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Glenn Burt wrote: Maybe this organization will make some headway on the interoperability question. http://www.sunspec.org/ -Glenn Burt -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:35 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Number of Controllers I'm with you on that, William, a communications protocol for all RE productsoh, sorry, I was dreaming. Perhaps the new UCM bridge module will help. Here's a quote about it from this page http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/ucm/ A standard Modbus RTU interface is provided both as isolated RS-485 and TCP\IP Ethernet based Modbus/IP. Additional Ethernet connectivity includes a built in HTTP web site server allowing data view and parameter setup with a standard web browser either locally, or globally over the Internet without a subscription. The ability for periodic real time FTP data upload to a remote server is also provided. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On May 23, 2012, at 10:46 PM, William Miller wrote: Larry: Thank you for the update on this intriguing product. It would be helpful if the charger network could talk to a Mate or an SCP, but I doubt that will ever happen. Here's an idea: A standard CAT5 protocol for exchanging data/settings in RE equipment. Utopia or Chaos? William At 10:42 PM 5/23/2012, Larry Crutcher, wrote: Colin, The IPN Network charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy can be configured as Master Slave so ALL controllers work together. With up to 8 controllers on the network, you can have multiple arrays and orintations. Their new Duo model will function as hydro or wind diversion control. AND, each controller has a fully programmable lighting control! Sounds like this is the controller to meet all your requests. We have sold hundreds and I highly recommend them. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems (928) 342-9103 www.starlightsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] SWPLUS MSRP?
Hi Folks, Im looking at buying a brand new SWPLUS 4024 inverter from one of my clients for power for a home project. Does anyone have any idea how much these sold for when they were available? I want to give her a fair deal for this nice piece of gear. Thanks! Regards, James Reismiller NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® Abundant Solar 541-231-8772 CCB#175919 Logo2007-for-outlook www.abundantsolar.com http://www.abundantsolar.com/abundantsolar/Home.html Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we dont have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that. -Thomas Edison image003.png___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SWPLUS MSRP?
According to a 2008 Xantrex price list, MSRP was $3,025. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 5/24/2012 4:44 PM, James Reismiller wrote: Hi Folks, Im looking at buying a brand new SWPLUS 4024 inverter from one of my clients for power for a home project. Does anyone have any idea how much these sold for when they were available? I want to give her a fair deal for this nice piece of gear. Thanks! Regards, James Reismiller NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer Abundant Solar 541-231-8772 CCB#175919 www.abundantsolar.com Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we dont have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that. -Thomas Edison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage Datalogger
Jason, Following up William's comment, here's an eGauge with battery voltage monitoring: http://egauge2093.egaug.es/ De-select all the register choices at the bottom of the graph except for Battery Voltage. The y-scale is in Watts but it's really V-DC; the folks at eGauge are working on that. It fits the bill for what you described: no computer required, as the eGuage is its own web server, but there's an issue here: the eGauge and HomePlug require at least 85V. If there is any AC on-site (how is the modem/router powered?), use that to power the eGauge device and get it the internet connection as well. The benefit of the eGauge is that you get load monitoring as well. -Phil On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 6:01 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: This customer wants a standalone solution without a computer (direct LAN connection). There is no inverter - that was my first thought when he called... The pentametric sounds like a possible solution - I'll look into that. Thanks for the info! Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Dan Fink danbo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jason; This is a big interest of mine also, due to many extremely remote sites with PV installations. Though am more int he market for a deployable voltage monitor where the client can send me data upon their arrival at camp each spring, so i can see what the systems were doing all winter with nobody around but bears, wolves and wolverines. There are numerous ways to go about this; here would be my considerations: ~ Is there an integrated system monitor in place already? As in Outback FlexnetDC, and the Xantrex and Magnum equivilants? If so, much of your work has been done for you. should be quite easy. ~ Is there an external monitor like a trimetric or pentametric? The trimetric would require a computer on all the time (but that could be a tiny linux thing with no display, just and SD card etc). The pentametric can be ordered with an LAN interface so that only the internet and LAN/wifi need be turned on, not a computer; ~ You can talk to Jim Jarvis at APRS World. They have tons of logging/monitoring options they can build for you with integrated LAN/internet monitoring etc. For this year, i am going with some USB pen drive voltage monitors i can deploy on the last day of human occupation at these camps (november 1) and retrieve data when people arrive June 1. The problem is zero sunlight for 2 months of winter (high latitude, in a valley in the Skeena Mountain Range) However I think my future may be with Arduino. Not very hard to tell the arduino computer: -- Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 (voicemail) On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: I have a customer interested in monitoring a 48V battery bank's voltage via the Internet. This is a DC only system. He just needs basic real-time and historical voltage recording without any bells and whistles. Any cost effective ideas? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP
Certification is just a business, whether it's for computer Techs or Solar Installers, and they seem to be entities unto themselves. I have heard all the arguments for certs, but like you said some folks don't test well but are knowledgeable others test well but are clueless as to practical applications. Back a decade or so ago I taught Computer Tech certification (A+) at our local university. In one class that I taught I had 23 network admins (Employed as such) and managing large networks. Only three tested and one passed. The point is all were capable network admins. The real question is... how does one prove their expertise? Especially to the general public. I have seen some real nightmarish off grid systems setup by NABCEP installers and Non-NABCEP as well. It is a problem and though I don't believe in certification, I also don't have an alternative suggestion either. Kind Regards Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz For: Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-7765 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:04 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked with our honorable moderator prior to posting this. If we are attempting to expand the field of certified installer and designers why is NABCEP run the way it is? Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a hotel etc, this is a joke. I may be in the minority but point to make here. Beyond that I became a wrench because I do not test well [avoided a 4 year degree] yet I can outline a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head and build it the first time correctly. The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local proctoring, libraries, schools, etc. 2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a variety of resources. Why can we not? When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of the test room. Why do we have to wait 6 weeks? The NEC book is the only reference material at the test when is not doing a trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From what I understand any number of professions and trades get to use several resource books. You would think we were going to be secret agents or the like. I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have not a clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to do the same. I am certified and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine but 100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a backup coach. Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master electrician yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked masters and they have had to go look up the answer. I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for 50kw and a separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a scheduled basis with you local librarian I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress, stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent on this much damaged product called certification. I see some major issues and would like to start a discussion about how it is managed. I think it needs rethinking. Thanks for considering your opinion? Dana Orzel - Great Solar Works, Inc - E - d...@solarwork.commailto:d...@solarwork.com - V 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.comhttp://www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 P Please consider the environment before printing this email ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP
Having been a Carpenter before becoming an electrician, and then working with PV, I see the need for licencing of some sort. You can all imagine the summer carpenters I had to deal with. Without a licensed trade like plumbers and electricians in MN, anyone can do the work. To become a licensed electrician in MN, you need 10,000 hours of verified work experience (apprenticeship) before you can even sit for the test. This makes our license reciprocal with, I believe, any state in the USA. Last time I checked, if you came from say, Mississippi, you would need to take our state electrical test to have your licence be accepted here in MN (I just picked Mississippi). Not every licensed electrician should be left alone to wire, let alone run the electrical department at Home Depot! There are slackers in all trades. Well maybe not perfect, to me, NABCEP offers some kind of verifiable work experience and classroom time. I am proud of both my state electrical licence and my NABCEP Certs. Just my Iron Range opinion. I do like the idea of an off-grid and utility cert as well. Jesse On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Tom Duffy t...@thesolar.biz wrote: Certification is just a business, whether it’s for computer Techs or Solar Installers, and they seem to be entities unto themselves. I have heard all the arguments for certs, but like you said some folks don’t test well but are knowledgeable others test well but are clueless as to practical applications. ** ** Back a decade or so ago I taught Computer Tech certification (A+) at our local university. In one class that I taught I had 23 network admins (Employed as such) and managing large networks. Only three tested and one passed. The point is all were capable network admins. ** ** The real question is… how does one prove their expertise? Especially to the general public. I have seen some real nightmarish off grid systems setup by NABCEP installers and Non-NABCEP as well. It is a problem and though I don’t believe in certification, I also don’t have an alternative suggestion either. * * Kind Regards ** ** Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer ** ** Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz For: Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-7765 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 * * *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dana *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:04 PM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NABCEP ** ** NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I checked with our honorable moderator prior to posting this. ** ** If we are attempting to expand the field of “certified“ installer and designers why is NABCEP run the way it is? ** ** Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual nightmare living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, stay in a hotel etc, this is a joke. I may be in the minority but point to make here. Beyond that I became a wrench because I do not test well [avoided a 4 year degree] yet I can outline a schematic for electrical or plumbing in my head and build it the first time correctly. ** ** The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local proctoring, libraries, schools, etc. 2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and use a variety of resources. Why can we not? When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of the test room. Why do we have to wait 6 weeks? The NEC book is the only reference material at the test when is not doing a trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From what I understand any number of professions and trades get to use several resource books. You would think we were going to be secret agents or the like. ** ** I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only have not a clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed to do the same. I am certified and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just fine but 100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a backup coach. Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master electrician yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have asked masters and they have had to go look up the answer. I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for 50kw and a separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a scheduled basis with you local librarian ** ** I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in distress, stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent on this much damaged product called certification. I see some major
Re: [RE-wrenches] SWPLUS MSRP?
James: If you can't also purchase an AGM unit, the entire package is worthless. William Miller At 03:44 PM 5/24/2012, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary==_NextPart_000_0022_01CD39C4.204CCDD0 Content-Language: en-us Hi Folks, I'm looking at buying a brand new SWPLUS 4024 inverter from one of my clients for power for a home project. Does anyone have any idea how much these sold for when they were available? I want to give her a fair deal for this nice piece of gear. Thanks! Regards, James Reismiller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
