Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups

[Rich]

We program Auto Reboot for a 12 hour interval on all Mate3s when using 
satellite internet and it seems to keep us online “most of the time”.
When it does go offline we just check back once the next auto reboot has 
occurred.
Outback admits auto reboot is a less than ideal solution but its what 
engineering came up with for the problem.
Rich

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 17, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Dana Orzel  wrote:
> 
> 
> My Mat3 goes blank on a semi regular basis, I have not notated the frequency.
>  
> Perhaps someone from Outback who is on the list would care to comment? Anyone 
> from OutBack on this?
>  
>  
>  
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
> C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.greatsolarworks.com
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
> Nick A Lucchese
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:28 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups
>  
> Hello again,
>  
> Perhaps it’s something different since you’re saying “front panel looks 
> perfectly normal”  but it’s difficult for me to think of any of my sites that 
> don’t experience the Mate3-s freezing up from time to time requiring a quick 
> disconnect and reconnect of the Cat5 cables. Some sites do seem more frequent 
> than others but overall I’ve just come to accept this and be sure to provide 
> my clients with a tutorial of how to fix when I walk them through the initial 
> commissioning instruction. I point out both places to unplug and highlight 
> the greater accessibility of the 1st Mate port in the Hub versus on the back 
> of the Mate often attached to the wall.  Of course nobody remembers when it 
> happens six months down the line either. I can also tell how often my client 
> actually pays attention since it’s not uncommon to show up at a site for 
> something else and discover a frozen Mate3-s. In general, I’ve just come to 
> expect this and since it’s always fixed with a couple minute effort I don’t 
> see it as being a major issue for the majority of my customers.
>  
> As far as Hughesnet goes I also have issues at those sites. No easy way 
> around it. Seems like Opticsre is slightly more stable than the older Blue 
> Ion 2.0 monitoring though. Next time you speak with your favorite battery or 
> inverter manufacturer be sure to express your dislike of this newer trend 
> which does away with integrated hardware for monitoring. I still have a lot 
> of “old timers” that can care less to have their monitoring online and 
> although it makes my life easier the manufacturers need to accept that there 
> is a large part of the off grid world that does not have reliable internet 
> nor an age demographic that cares to navigate this new world of connectivity. 
> There is no substitute for on site monitoring hardware that displays battery 
> SOC. If an inexpensive Goal Zero can do it why can’t our favorite $20k 
> batteries?
>  
> Enjoy your day, Nick
>  
> 
> 
> On Feb 16, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kirk Herander  wrote:
>  
> Hello all,
>  
> I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host lately. 
> Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. But they can 
> only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot 
> will occur and OpticsRE  is restored. Ideas???
>  
> --
> Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solar
> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC
> Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!
> www.vermont.solar
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
> 802.863.1202
> ___
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[RE-wrenches] Burned Breakers! Need Help

[peter...@pobox.com]

 
 
  
   
I designed a 12.8kWdc rooftop PV system for a client. Brand new house. Two Sunny Boy 6.0. The outputs of the inverters were wired via 8 AWG THHN/THWN-2 into an Eaton 100 A subpanel, with Eaton 40A 2-pole breakers, and the sub-panel fed the main panel via 6 AWG THHN/THWN-2. The breaker on the main panel was 100A.
   
   
This all took place in late 2016.
   
   
We installed the SMA a Sunny Portal so the client could monitor his production. All was well until a few months ago: he began getting messages that "production is down by more than 20%" three days in a row. This was back in Dec. 2021 when we got a lot of rain. Then several sunny days in a row, and the inverters showed no production, but no error messages. He went on line and the Sunny Portal showed no production. At one point, one of the inverter displayed a 1203 error code -- no grid.
   
   

   
   
He went to the sub-panel and both breakers appeared to be in the "on" position. He moved one of the breakers, but not forcing it into the "off" position, and the breaker appear to fall apart behind the deadman plate. He removed the deadman plate and the breaker in question fell apart in several pieces. He moved the second breaker a bit and it also fell apart. 
   
   

   
   
At this point he called me and, after making sure that the subpanel was de-energized, I directed him check how well the 8AWG conductors were torqued to the terminals and to put to put wire nuts on the l1/l2 leads of both inverter conductors. He said the conductors appeared to have been well torqued down to the terminals.
   
   

   
   
I picked up the old breakers, and ordered two new Eaton brand 40A 2-pole breakers. I examined the old breakers and the area of the breaker near the jaws were severely burnt to the point where the plastic was in pieces and the jaws themselves has come apart in pieces. No similar heat damage was found at the wire terminals.
   
   

   
   
I told the client that "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" (c.f. Albert Einstein) and I did not recommend replacing with new Eaton brand breakers, until I got more input from professionals. He has decided to clean the tangs on the buss bars, replace the breakers, torque the wire terminals to spec, and to monitor the vicinity of the breakers with an IR thermometer on a regular basis.
   
   

   
   
The location of the sub-panel is in a garage with no A/C. The ambient temperature can reach 110 degF in the summer, and so I am going to assume that the subpanel, which is located inside the garage on a north-facing wall, could get as hot as 130 deg F or 54 degC. The temperature de-rating for THHN/THWN-2 Cu (0.76), and there are two inverter outputs in a single conduit, 4 current carrying conductors (0.80).
   
   

   
   
So, the temperature-corrected/conductors-in-conduit-corrected ampacity is 55A*(0.76)*(0.80)=33.4A. The maximum output current for a SB6.0 at 240 Vac is 25.0 A. So I believe that, to first order we are okay on ampacity. But I forget how to calculate the actual temperature (above ambient) of 8AWG THHN/THWN-2 at an RMS current of 25A, and I don't know what the panelboard temperature rating is (I'll find out).
   
   

   
   
I have pictures of the old breakers and the sub-panel for those who are interested troubleshooting our problem, provide me with an email address.
   
   

   
   
- Peter 
   
   

   
   
Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.

   
  
  
   President, California Solar Engineering820 Cynthia Ave.Los Angeles, CA 90065(323) 839-6108
  
 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups

[Dana Orzel]

My Mat3 goes blank on a semi regular basis, I have not notated the frequency. 

 

Perhaps someone from Outback who is on the list would care to comment? Anyone 
from OutBack on this?

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136 
www.greatsolarworks.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Nick 
A Lucchese
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:28 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups

 

Hello again,

 

Perhaps it’s something different since you’re saying “front panel looks 
perfectly normal”  but it’s difficult for me to think of any of my sites that 
don’t experience the Mate3-s freezing up from time to time requiring a quick 
disconnect and reconnect of the Cat5 cables. Some sites do seem more frequent 
than others but overall I’ve just come to accept this and be sure to provide my 
clients with a tutorial of how to fix when I walk them through the initial 
commissioning instruction. I point out both places to unplug and highlight the 
greater accessibility of the 1st Mate port in the Hub versus on the back of the 
Mate often attached to the wall.  Of course nobody remembers when it happens 
six months down the line either. I can also tell how often my client actually 
pays attention since it’s not uncommon to show up at a site for something else 
and discover a frozen Mate3-s. In general, I’ve just come to expect this and 
since it’s always fixed with a couple minute effort I don’t see it as being a 
major issue for the majority of my customers.

 

As far as Hughesnet goes I also have issues at those sites. No easy way around 
it. Seems like Opticsre is slightly more stable than the older Blue Ion 2.0 
monitoring though. Next time you speak with your favorite battery or inverter 
manufacturer be sure to express your dislike of this newer trend which does 
away with integrated hardware for monitoring. I still have a lot of “old 
timers” that can care less to have their monitoring online and although it 
makes my life easier the manufacturers need to accept that there is a large 
part of the off grid world that does not have reliable internet nor an age 
demographic that cares to navigate this new world of connectivity. There is no 
substitute for on site monitoring hardware that displays battery SOC. If an 
inexpensive Goal Zero can do it why can’t our favorite $20k batteries?

 

Enjoy your day, Nick

 





On Feb 16, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kirk Herander mailto:kirkh@vermont.solar> > wrote:

 

Hello all,

 

I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host lately. 
Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. But they can 
only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot 
will occur and OpticsRE  is restored. Ideas???


 

-- 

Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solar  

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC

Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!

 

 www.vermont.solar

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups

[Dan Fink]

Kirk - Yes, you can set the Mate3s auto-reboot interval remotely from
OpticsRE, but I believe if it shows Gateway Offline you have to make a site
visit.
Dan Fink
Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
NABCEP PV Associate
d anbo...@gmail.com
970-672-4342

>
>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups

[Chris Mason]

We have had two units in succession fail, network ports stopped working.
Other than networking they work perfectly.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:32 PM Kirk Herander  wrote:

> Yep, "gateway offline" id the OpticsRE message. I will explore the
> auto-reboot, is it programmable through OptisRE?
>
> I've never gotten a Mate3s to communicate over satellite internet. Just
> didn't work, even though the household LAN was fine over it. The customer
> had to invest in a Verizon cell modem( ie. jetpack) and I used the SIM card
> in a 3rd party modem, that works fine.
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 3:07 PM Dan Fink  wrote:
>
>> Kirk -- Is it connected to OpticsRE, and do you get "Gateway Offline"
>> status when this happens? I've had weird offline intervals in the past, and
>> many Mate 3s firmware updates ago I set them to auto reboot every 24 hours
>> which fixed weird offline intervals. My experience with Mate 3s / OpticsRE
>> over HughesNet has been 50/50; works for some sites, not for others. The
>> auto reboot has fixed all my similar issues so far as Chris mentions, but I
>> have not had any problems with it not finding DHCP and getting back online
>> by itself after an internet outage. Never seen that before here.
>> Dan Fink
>> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
>> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
>> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
>> NABCEP PV Associate
>> d anbo...@gmail.com
>> 970-672-4342
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:24 PM Kirk Herander 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host
>>> lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal.
>>> But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a
>>> normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE  is restored. Ideas???
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>>>
>>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>>>
>>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!*
>>>
>>> *www.vermont.solar*
>>> 
>>>
>>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>>>
>>> 802.863.1202
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>>
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>>
>
> --
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!*
>
> *www.vermont.solar*
> 
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.863.1202
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
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>
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>

-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial