Re: [RE-wrenches] Home grid stacked battery heating

2023-11-05 Thread Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
Wrenches
I have also used the turtle heater and it's just enough to keep everything
up and operating. Insulation and a warm thermal mass makes it all hold
together
Funtimes
Jerry

On Sun, Nov 5, 2023, 2:03 PM Allan Sindelar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I did this modification to a 16kW Blue Ion LiFP bank during installation,
> following this guide, Darryl. Blue Planet had sent me this. Shortly after
> initial installation a plumber had installed an electric space heater in an
> unheated space with water pipes, which of course soon drained the batteries
> to LVD, so the BMS had shut them down. The BMS won’t accept a charge until
> the batteries were about 1 1/2 degrees F above freezing. I did a winter
> service call and worked with BP tech support. I plugged the same space
> heater into a portable gennie and pointed it to the batteries, and as soon
> as the BMS registered above freezing it allowed recharge from the array.
> As I recall, besides the bubble/Mylar insulation (which was surprisingly
> easy to install) the system used an 18w terrarium heating pad in the bottom
> shelf under the batteries and a 9w pad on the upper shelf, controlled by an
> external freeze-prevention thermostat. With a sufficient whole-house array
> it’s proven to be a negligible load.
> It’s a standalone system. I don’t recall the low-temperature discharge
> limit; it’s quite a bit lower than the minimum charge temperature. And
> summer heating is irrelevant with the thermostat. The rest you can get from
> Blue Planet.
> Allan
>
> On Nov 5, 2023, at 2:03 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Great site, Allan, but many facts still need to be included.  Was there a
> discharge or charge going on? How much power was being drawn by the
> heaters?  If this is for a standalone system, energy consumption is very
> important. What is the lower temperature cell discharge limit of Blue
> Planet?   What concern was taken for the summer and overheating?   What are
> the blue planet-specific heat and weight of the batteries?  More questions,
> but I doubt if anyone else is interested. Thank you.
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 11:49 AM Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> You might be able to get some ideas from this. It's worked well for me on
>> one job.
>> Allan
>>
>> On 10/25/2023 2:24 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> I know we have had this run thru before & wanted to see if any new
>> options for heating LI batteries.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have an 8 pack of Homegrid LI batteries that is off grid with Radian
>> 8048a. Originally, they were not going to be there for the winter, now it
>> is a possibility they may visit. Plenty of solar 6KW+, hopefully generator
>> back up waiting on delivery currently.
>>
>> Currently located in main room high ceilings/log cabin.
>>
>> Looking at creating an insulated closet & using terrarium heaters
>> controlled if over 51volt heater on AC from inverter. Or just boxing in
>> with 3-4” of blue board Styrofoam….
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone else done something similar?
>>
>> Has anyone done this & it did not work?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thought & suggestions…..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _
>>
>> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>>
>> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>>
>> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
>>
>> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> *Allan Sindelar*
>> al...@sindelarsolar.com
>> RETIRED
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Home grid stacked battery heating

2023-11-05 Thread Allan Sindelar via RE-wrenches
I did this modification to a 16kW Blue Ion LiFP bank during installation, following this guide, Darryl. Blue Planet had sent me this. Shortly after initial installation a plumber had installed an electric space heater in an unheated space with water pipes, which of course soon drained the batteries to LVD, so the BMS had shut them down. The BMS won’t accept a charge until the batteries were about 1 1/2 degrees F above freezing. I did a winter service call and worked with BP tech support. I plugged the same space heater into a portable gennie and pointed it to the batteries, and as soon as the BMS registered above freezing it allowed recharge from the array. As I recall, besides the bubble/Mylar insulation (which was surprisingly easy to install) the system used an 18w terrarium heating pad in the bottom shelf under the batteries and a 9w pad on the upper shelf, controlled by an external freeze-prevention thermostat. With a sufficient whole-house array it’s proven to be a negligible load. It’s a standalone system. I don’t recall the low-temperature discharge limit; it’s quite a bit lower than the minimum charge temperature. And summer heating is irrelevant with the thermostat. The rest you can get from Blue Planet. AllanOn Nov 5, 2023, at 2:03 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Great site, Allan, but many facts still need to be included.  Was there a discharge or charge going on? How much power was being drawn by the heaters?  If this is for a standalone system, energy consumption is very important. What is the lower temperature cell discharge limit of Blue Planet?   What concern was taken for the summer and overheating?   What are the blue planet-specific heat and weight of the batteries?  More questions, but I doubt if anyone else is interested.     Thank you.On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 11:49 AM Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  

  
  
You might be able to get some ideas from this. It's worked well for
me on one job.
Allan

On 10/25/2023 2:24 PM, Dana Orzel via
  RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  
  
  
I
know we have had this run thru before & wanted to see if
any new options for heating LI batteries.
 
I
have an 8 pack of Homegrid LI batteries that is off grid
with Radian 8048a. Originally, they were not going to be
there for the winter, now it is a possibility they may
visit. Plenty of solar 6KW+, hopefully generator back up
waiting on delivery currently.
Currently
located in main room high ceilings/log cabin.
Looking
at creating an insulated closet & using terrarium
heaters controlled if over 51volt heater on AC from
inverter. Or just boxing in with 3-4” of blue board
Styrofoam….
 
Has
anyone else done something similar?
Has
anyone done this & it did not work?
 
Thought
& suggestions…..
 
 
_
Dana
Orzel    GREAT
SOLAR WORKS!  
C
– 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
W
- www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
“Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”
 
  
  
  
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-- 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
  al...@sindelarsolar.com
  RETIRED
 
  

  

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Home grid stacked battery heating

2023-11-05 Thread Kirk Bailey via RE-wrenches
Something else to consider is that many of the modern LFP batteries use a
relatively large amount of power just to keep the internal BMS/contactor(s)
energized, independent of whether the battery is being charged/discharged.
For example, I believe the Fortress eFlex 5.4's use on the order of 12-20 W
continuously, *each*.  A stack of four generates a significant amount of
heat from this alone!

Cheers,

Kirk Bailey
k...@abundantsolar.com


On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 12:28 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Daryl,
> Being in Vermont and dealing with lots of off-grid, occasional use
> systems, I'm definitely interested in others' experience with cold weather
> installations.
> Howie Michaelson
> Sun Catcher
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 3:03 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Great site, Allan, but many facts still need to be included.  Was there a
>> discharge or charge going on? How much power was being drawn by the
>> heaters?  If this is for a standalone system, energy consumption is very
>> important. What is the lower temperature cell discharge limit of Blue
>> Planet?   What concern was taken for the summer and overheating?   What are
>> the blue planet-specific heat and weight of the batteries?  More questions,
>> but I doubt if anyone else is interested. Thank you.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 11:49 AM Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> You might be able to get some ideas from this. It's worked well for me
>>> on one job.
>>> Allan
>>>
>>> On 10/25/2023 2:24 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> I know we have had this run thru before & wanted to see if any new
>>> options for heating LI batteries.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have an 8 pack of Homegrid LI batteries that is off grid with Radian
>>> 8048a. Originally, they were not going to be there for the winter, now it
>>> is a possibility they may visit. Plenty of solar 6KW+, hopefully generator
>>> back up waiting on delivery currently.
>>>
>>> Currently located in main room high ceilings/log cabin.
>>>
>>> Looking at creating an insulated closet & using terrarium heaters
>>> controlled if over 51volt heater on AC from inverter. Or just boxing in
>>> with 3-4” of blue board Styrofoam….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone else done something similar?
>>>
>>> Has anyone done this & it did not work?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thought & suggestions…..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _
>>>
>>> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>>>
>>> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>>>
>>> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
>>>
>>> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & 
>>> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
>>> other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Allan Sindelar*
>>> al...@sindelarsolar.com
>>> RETIRED
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
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>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
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>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Home grid stacked battery heating

2023-11-05 Thread Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches
Daryl,
Being in Vermont and dealing with lots of off-grid, occasional use systems,
I'm definitely interested in others' experience with cold weather
installations.
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher



On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 3:03 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Great site, Allan, but many facts still need to be included.  Was there a
> discharge or charge going on? How much power was being drawn by the
> heaters?  If this is for a standalone system, energy consumption is very
> important. What is the lower temperature cell discharge limit of Blue
> Planet?   What concern was taken for the summer and overheating?   What are
> the blue planet-specific heat and weight of the batteries?  More questions,
> but I doubt if anyone else is interested. Thank you.
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 11:49 AM Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> You might be able to get some ideas from this. It's worked well for me on
>> one job.
>> Allan
>>
>> On 10/25/2023 2:24 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> I know we have had this run thru before & wanted to see if any new
>> options for heating LI batteries.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have an 8 pack of Homegrid LI batteries that is off grid with Radian
>> 8048a. Originally, they were not going to be there for the winter, now it
>> is a possibility they may visit. Plenty of solar 6KW+, hopefully generator
>> back up waiting on delivery currently.
>>
>> Currently located in main room high ceilings/log cabin.
>>
>> Looking at creating an insulated closet & using terrarium heaters
>> controlled if over 51volt heater on AC from inverter. Or just boxing in
>> with 3-4” of blue board Styrofoam….
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone else done something similar?
>>
>> Has anyone done this & it did not work?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thought & suggestions…..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _
>>
>> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>>
>> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>>
>> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
>>
>> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & 
>> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
>> other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
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>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Allan Sindelar*
>> al...@sindelarsolar.com
>> RETIRED
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>> other:
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>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Home grid stacked battery heating

2023-11-05 Thread Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches
Great site, Allan, but many facts still need to be included.  Was there a
discharge or charge going on? How much power was being drawn by the
heaters?  If this is for a standalone system, energy consumption is very
important. What is the lower temperature cell discharge limit of Blue
Planet?   What concern was taken for the summer and overheating?   What are
the blue planet-specific heat and weight of the batteries?  More questions,
but I doubt if anyone else is interested. Thank you.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 11:49 AM Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> You might be able to get some ideas from this. It's worked well for me on
> one job.
> Allan
>
> On 10/25/2023 2:24 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I know we have had this run thru before & wanted to see if any new options
> for heating LI batteries.
>
>
>
> I have an 8 pack of Homegrid LI batteries that is off grid with Radian
> 8048a. Originally, they were not going to be there for the winter, now it
> is a possibility they may visit. Plenty of solar 6KW+, hopefully generator
> back up waiting on delivery currently.
>
> Currently located in main room high ceilings/log cabin.
>
> Looking at creating an insulated closet & using terrarium heaters
> controlled if over 51volt heater on AC from inverter. Or just boxing in
> with 3-4” of blue board Styrofoam….
>
>
>
> Has anyone else done something similar?
>
> Has anyone done this & it did not work?
>
>
>
> Thought & suggestions…..
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>
> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>
> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
>
> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
> other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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>
> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> --
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> RETIRED
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Home grid stacked battery heating

2023-10-25 Thread Daryl DeJoy via RE-wrenches
I know the new SolArk high voltage outdoor batteries have a built in heat
pump (as well as a fire suppression system) Above and beyond that, I
haven't heard of any workable solutions.

Daryl

On Wed, Oct 25, 2023, 4:26 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I know we have had this run thru before & wanted to see if any new options
> for heating LI batteries.
>
>
>
> I have an 8 pack of Homegrid LI batteries that is off grid with Radian
> 8048a. Originally, they were not going to be there for the winter, now it
> is a possibility they may visit. Plenty of solar 6KW+, hopefully generator
> back up waiting on delivery currently.
>
> Currently located in main room high ceilings/log cabin.
>
> Looking at creating an insulated closet & using terrarium heaters
> controlled if over 51volt heater on AC from inverter. Or just boxing in
> with 3-4” of blue board Styrofoam….
>
>
>
> Has anyone else done something similar?
>
> Has anyone done this & it did not work?
>
>
>
> Thought & suggestions…..
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>
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[RE-wrenches] Home grid stacked battery heating

2023-10-25 Thread Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches
I know we have had this run thru before & wanted to see if any new options
for heating LI batteries.

 

I have an 8 pack of Homegrid LI batteries that is off grid with Radian
8048a. Originally, they were not going to be there for the winter, now it is
a possibility they may visit. Plenty of solar 6KW+, hopefully generator back
up waiting on delivery currently.

Currently located in main room high ceilings/log cabin.

Looking at creating an insulated closet & using terrarium heaters controlled
if over 51volt heater on AC from inverter. Or just boxing in with 3-4" of
blue board Styrofoam..

 

Has anyone else done something similar?

Has anyone done this & it did not work?

 

Thought & suggestions...

 

 

_

Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!  

C - 208.721.7003  E -   d...@solarwork.com

W - www. greatsolarworks.com  
www.solarwork.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!"

 

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