Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

hat works for me.  I will try to keep the
>> explanation short but there is some nuance to it that might take some
>> ‘splaning.
>>
>>
>>
>> As a licensed electrical contractor it is my responsibility to design the
>> systems I install, with certain exceptions.  I don’t know if this is the
>> correct term, but I call it design/build.  My exposure is covered and my
>> requirements are met if I have a general liability policy and the required
>> bonding any contractor would.  Coverage for errors and omissions is not
>> required.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the scope of the project is complicated beyond some level then the
>> services of a PE will be required and a wet-stamped plan may be needed, or
>> at least sensible to provide.  The client or the building department may
>> require this added service.
>>
>>
>>
>> The level of complexity at which external, licensed design services are
>> needed is subjective.  Most electricians don’t need a PE to draw up a new
>> or replacement service or the details of configuring branch circuits, to
>> name a few examples.  The requirements can be deduced from the particulars
>> of the project and the language of the NEC.  If the contractor is
>> inexperienced, then more design help is needed.  If the contractor is more
>> experienced, then more complex projects can be designed in-house.  I decide
>> for myself if I am qualified to do the design work, or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Before a bid is prepared some level of design needs to be accomplished in
>> order to define the scope of the project, specify the materials and predict
>> the labor required.  My preference is to design the heck out of any job so
>> I don’t get any unpleasant, expensive surprises once the project
>> commences.  I don’t do this level of design work for free.  There is always
>> a work order for design time.
>>
>>
>>
>> However I do not always get the contract to perform the physical work.
>> The bid price may be too high or the project may not go forward for any
>> number of reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unless there is some proprietary information in the design, once the
>> customer pays my design fee the customer owns that design and is entitled
>> to deliverables in the form of drawings, calculations, bill of materials,
>> etc.  If I hand over those documents but do not install the work, I am
>> essentially working design only, not design/build.  However because the
>> intent was to design a project I would build, I don’t worry about that
>> detail.  I assume no liability for any part of the project unless I am
>> hired to build it.  I have no control over what the client does with the
>> design information once I turn it over.
>>
>>
>>
>> Under this logic I am pretty comfortable providing occasional design-only
>> services as long as I could demonstrate, if asked, that I was operating in
>> good faith on a design/build project.  This intent can be satisfied by the
>> language of the work order, specifying the client will provide an
>> opportunity for you to bid on the work in hopes of winning the contract.
>>
>>
>>
>> This approach might work for you or at least give you something to think
>> about.  Not everyone is willing to take the same risks.  Sorry about all of
>> the words.  I could not explain this approach any more concisely.
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 10, 2024 3:23 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Cc:* Dave Tedeyan
>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal
>> with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design
>> work for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system
>> and give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work
>> situations.
>>
>>
>>
>> Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should
>> have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not
>> something that is covered under our general liability (contractors)
>> insurance.
>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

and the language of the NEC.  If the contractor is inexperienced,
then more design help is needed.  If the contractor is more
experienced, then more complex projects can be designed in-house. 
I decide for myself if I am qualified to do the design work, or not.

Before a bid is prepared some level of design needs to be
accomplished in order to define the scope of the project, specify
the materials and predict the labor required.  My preference is to
design the heck out of any job so I don’t get any unpleasant,
expensive surprises once the project commences.  I don’t do this
level of design work for free.  There is always a work order for
design time.

However I do not always get the contract to perform the physical
work.  The bid price may be too high or the project may not go
forward for any number of reasons.

Unless there is some proprietary information in the design, once
the customer pays my design fee the customer owns that design and
is entitled to deliverables in the form of drawings, calculations,
bill of materials, etc.  If I hand over those documents but do not
install the work, I am essentially working design only, not
design/build.  However because the intent was to design a project
I would build, I don’t worry about that detail.  I assume no
liability for any part of the project unless I am hired to build
it.  I have no control over what the client does with the design
information once I turn it over.

Under this logic I am pretty comfortable providing occasional
design-only services as long as I could demonstrate, if asked,
that I was operating in good faith on a design/build project. 
This intent can be satisfied by the language of the work order,
specifying the client will provide an opportunity for you to bid
on the work in hopes of winning the contract.

This approach might work for you or at least give you something to
think about.  Not everyone is willing to take the same risks. 
Sorry about all of the words.  I could not explain this approach
any more concisely.

William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
*Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Sunday, March 10, 2024 3:23 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Dave Tedeyan
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

Hi All,

I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others
deal with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either
do some design work for a system that we will not be installing,
or to inspect a system and give my professional opinion about it.
These are two separate work situations.

Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we
should have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it
is not something that is covered under our general liability
(contractors) insurance.

Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional
liability" (errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do
one or two designs a year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000
policy. This would be meant to cover us if I make a mistake in the
design that leads to some sort of failure or fire.

Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get
essentially a home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per
year. Again, this is something that we do a handful of times per
year. This insurance is meant to cover us if I inspect a system
and miss something that then ends up being a problem or a hazard.

With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought
that I may be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I
should have something in my service contracts that would
essentially say something like "we will do this work to the best
of our ability", and then if something does go wrong and the
homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove that we
missed something that a reasonable person would have caught. My
business manager does not like this because we could still have
lots of lawyer fees and have to show up in court if we were to get
sued, even if the problem was not caused by a lack of diligence on
our part.

So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or
do you just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually
turning some wrenches on the site so that your general liability
insurance covers your work? Or, is this a case of our insurance
agent putting ungrounded fears in our head?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers,

Dave

-- 


Logo <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches]

lity for any part of the project unless I am
> hired to build it.  I have no control over what the client does with the
> design information once I turn it over.
>
>
>
> Under this logic I am pretty comfortable providing occasional design-only
> services as long as I could demonstrate, if asked, that I was operating in
> good faith on a design/build project.  This intent can be satisfied by the
> language of the work order, specifying the client will provide an
> opportunity for you to bid on the work in hopes of winning the contract.
>
>
>
> This approach might work for you or at least give you something to think
> about.  Not everyone is willing to take the same risks.  Sorry about all of
> the words.  I could not explain this approach any more concisely.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 10, 2024 3:23 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Cc:* Dave Tedeyan
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal
> with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design
> work for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system
> and give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work
> situations.
>
>
>
> Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should
> have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not
> something that is covered under our general liability (contractors)
> insurance.
>
>
>
> Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability"
> (errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a
> year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to
> cover us if I make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of
> failure or fire.
>
>
>
> Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a
> home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is
> something that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant
> to cover us if I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up
> being a problem or a hazard.
>
>
>
> With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I
> may be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have
> something in my service contracts that would essentially say something like
> "we will do this work to the best of our ability", and then if something
> does go wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove
> that we missed something that a reasonable person would have caught. My
> business manager does not like this because we could still have lots of
> lawyer fees and have to show up in court if we were to get sued, even if
> the problem was not caused by a lack of diligence on our part.
>
>
>
> So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you
> just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some
> wrenches on the site so that your general liability insurance covers your
> work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in
> our head?
>
>
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>
>
> *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar*
>
> *p: *he | him | his
> *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> *w:* www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
> *c:* (607) 270-0370
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
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>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
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> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Dave:



I have thought about this dilemma pretty carefully in the past.  I have
come up with a line of logic that works for me.  I will try to keep the
explanation short but there is some nuance to it that might take some
‘splaning.



As a licensed electrical contractor it is my responsibility to design the
systems I install, with certain exceptions.  I don’t know if this is the
correct term, but I call it design/build.  My exposure is covered and my
requirements are met if I have a general liability policy and the required
bonding any contractor would.  Coverage for errors and omissions is not
required.



If the scope of the project is complicated beyond some level then the
services of a PE will be required and a wet-stamped plan may be needed, or
at least sensible to provide.  The client or the building department may
require this added service.



The level of complexity at which external, licensed design services are
needed is subjective.  Most electricians don’t need a PE to draw up a new
or replacement service or the details of configuring branch circuits, to
name a few examples.  The requirements can be deduced from the particulars
of the project and the language of the NEC.  If the contractor is
inexperienced, then more design help is needed.  If the contractor is more
experienced, then more complex projects can be designed in-house.  I decide
for myself if I am qualified to do the design work, or not.



Before a bid is prepared some level of design needs to be accomplished in
order to define the scope of the project, specify the materials and predict
the labor required.  My preference is to design the heck out of any job so
I don’t get any unpleasant, expensive surprises once the project
commences.  I don’t do this level of design work for free.  There is always
a work order for design time.



However I do not always get the contract to perform the physical work.  The
bid price may be too high or the project may not go forward for any number
of reasons.



Unless there is some proprietary information in the design, once the
customer pays my design fee the customer owns that design and is entitled
to deliverables in the form of drawings, calculations, bill of materials,
etc.  If I hand over those documents but do not install the work, I am
essentially working design only, not design/build.  However because the
intent was to design a project I would build, I don’t worry about that
detail.  I assume no liability for any part of the project unless I am
hired to build it.  I have no control over what the client does with the
design information once I turn it over.



Under this logic I am pretty comfortable providing occasional design-only
services as long as I could demonstrate, if asked, that I was operating in
good faith on a design/build project.  This intent can be satisfied by the
language of the work order, specifying the client will provide an
opportunity for you to bid on the work in hopes of winning the contract.



This approach might work for you or at least give you something to think
about.  Not everyone is willing to take the same risks.  Sorry about all of
the words.  I could not explain this approach any more concisely.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Sunday, March 10, 2024 3:23 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Dave Tedeyan
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections



Hi All,



I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal with
this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design work
for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system and
give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work
situations.



Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should
have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not
something that is covered under our general liability (contractors)
insurance.



Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability"
(errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a
year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to
cover us if I make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of
failure or fire.



Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a
home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is
something that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant
to cover us if I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up
being a problem or a hazard.



With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I may
be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have something
in my service contracts that would essentially say something like "we wi

Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches]

With General coverage I have been told if there is a issue with an installation 
& we did not install issues would be covered but if we install it they do not 
insure our work..
If we sub it out it was/is covered.

___
Dana Orzel  c- 2087217003   e - d...@solarwork.com

--- Begin Message ---
According to my agent, general liability does not cover design problems, 
whether we wrench it or not.  That is what an Errors and Omissions policy would 
cover, and what a previous agent mentioned to me in passing after selling me 
general liability for 10 years! They could offer me an E policy for several 
thousands of dollars, so I shopped it around and found coverage for a fraction 
of that cost, from a reputable company.  I have not considered an inspection 
insurance policy, mostly because my agent inferred that that type of work would 
be covered under an E & O policy as well, but I've never asked that question 
directly. So, something to add to my list for Monday...
Howie
Sun Catcher

On Sun, Mar 10, 2024, 6:23 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hi All,

I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal with 
this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design work for 
a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system and give my 
professional opinion about it. These are two separate work situations.

Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should have 
insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not something that is 
covered under our general liability (contractors) insurance.

Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability" (errors 
and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a year, we 
are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to cover us if I 
make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of failure or fire.

Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a home 
inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is something 
that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant to cover us if 
I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up being a problem or a 
hazard.

With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I may be 
fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have something in my 
service contracts that would essentially say something like "we will do this 
work to the best of our ability", and then if something does go wrong and the 
homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove that we missed something 
that a reasonable person would have caught. My business manager does not like 
this because we could still have lots of lawyer fees and have to show up in 
court if we were to get sued, even if the problem was not caused by a lack of 
diligence on our part.

So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you just 
not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some wrenches on 
the site so that your general liability insurance covers your work? Or, is this 
a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in our head?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers,
Dave

--
[Logo]
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com
c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Thanks for the recommendations to shop around. Seems like maybe this does
not need to be such a huge investment.

And Howie, I was also under the impression that the E would cover
inspections. We were just looking into an inspection policy instead of an
E because our agent said that it would be far less expensive and this all
came up around an inspection that I was planning on doing.

Cheers,
Dave

On Mon, Mar 11, 2024 at 8:21 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have carried E for much less. I think the recommendation to shop
> around is a good one.  NABECP I THINK, has some leads on firms for this.
>
>
> Chris
> On 3/10/2024 6:23 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal
> with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design
> work for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system
> and give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work
> situations.
>
> Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should
> have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not
> something that is covered under our general liability (contractors)
> insurance.
>
> Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability"
> (errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a
> year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to
> cover us if I make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of
> failure or fire.
>
> Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a
> home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is
> something that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant
> to cover us if I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up
> being a problem or a hazard.
>
> With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I
> may be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have
> something in my service contracts that would essentially say something like
> "we will do this work to the best of our ability", and then if something
> does go wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove
> that we missed something that a reasonable person would have caught. My
> business manager does not like this because we could still have lots of
> lawyer fees and have to show up in court if we were to get sued, even if
> the problem was not caused by a lack of diligence on our part.
>
> So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you
> just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some
> wrenches on the site so that your general liability insurance covers your
> work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in
> our head?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 270-0370
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
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> --
>Christopher Warfel
>   ENTECH Engineering Inc.
>PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>   401-477-5773
> [image: EE Logo] 
>
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[image: Logo] 
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I have carried E for much less. I think the recommendation to shop 
around is a good one.  NABECP I THINK, has some leads on firms for this.



Chris

On 3/10/2024 6:23 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi All,

I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal 
with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some 
design work for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect 
a system and give my professional opinion about it. These are two 
separate work situations.


Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we 
should have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is 
not something that is covered under our general liability 
(contractors) insurance.


Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional 
liability" (errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one 
or two designs a year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. 
This would be meant to cover us if I make a mistake in the design that 
leads to some sort of failure or fire.


Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get 
essentially a home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per 
year. Again, this is something that we do a handful of times per year. 
This insurance is meant to cover us if I inspect a system and miss 
something that then ends up being a problem or a hazard.


With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that 
I may be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have 
something in my service contracts that would essentially say something 
like "we will do this work to the best of our ability", and then if 
something does go wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is 
upon them to prove that we missed something that a reasonable person 
would have caught. My business manager does not like this because we 
could still have lots of lawyer fees and have to show up in court if 
we were to get sued, even if the problem was not caused by a lack of 
diligence on our part.


So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do 
you just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually 
turning some wrenches on the site so that your general liability 
insurance covers your work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent 
putting ungrounded fears in our head?


Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers,
Dave

--
Logo 
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 
c: (607) 270-0370


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--
Christopher Warfel
          ENTECH Engineering Inc.
   PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
              401-477-5773
EE Logo 
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
N:Warfel;Christopher;;;
TEL;VALUE=TEXT:401-447-5773 (c)
NOTE:Use the cell phone number for all communications.  Thank you.
URL:https://www.entech-engineering.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches]

According to my agent, general liability does not cover design problems,
whether we wrench it or not.  That is what an Errors and Omissions policy
would cover, and what a previous agent mentioned to me in passing after
selling me general liability for 10 years! They could offer me an E
policy for several thousands of dollars, so I shopped it around and found
coverage for a fraction of that cost, from a reputable company.  I have not
considered an inspection insurance policy, mostly because my agent inferred
that that type of work would be covered under an E & O policy as well, but
I've never asked that question directly. So, something to add to my list
for Monday...
Howie
Sun Catcher

On Sun, Mar 10, 2024, 6:23 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal
> with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design
> work for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system
> and give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work
> situations.
>
> Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should
> have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not
> something that is covered under our general liability (contractors)
> insurance.
>
> Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability"
> (errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a
> year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to
> cover us if I make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of
> failure or fire.
>
> Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a
> home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is
> something that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant
> to cover us if I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up
> being a problem or a hazard.
>
> With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I
> may be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have
> something in my service contracts that would essentially say something like
> "we will do this work to the best of our ability", and then if something
> does go wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove
> that we missed something that a reasonable person would have caught. My
> business manager does not like this because we could still have lots of
> lawyer fees and have to show up in court if we were to get sued, even if
> the problem was not caused by a lack of diligence on our part.
>
> So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you
> just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some
> wrenches on the site so that your general liability insurance covers your
> work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in
> our head?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 270-0370
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches]

Dave

 

  You have it, you won’t need it. You do not have it you will. In my previous 
life I had errors and omissions insurance. Shop it, you may be able to get 
better rates and coverages. I now just have a whopper of a GL policy and there 
have been a time or two where I get a call to fix another companies problems 
where I let the customer know the challenges and a time or two turned down the 
business due to the system being such a mess or I am not “certified “to service 
that gear  ( Generac )

 

Peter Giroux

ASAE  

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Tedeyan via RE-wrenches
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2024 6:23 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Dave Tedeyan 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

 

Hi All, 

 

I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal with 
this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design work for 
a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system and give my 
professional opinion about it. These are two separate work situations. 

 

Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should have 
insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not something that is 
covered under our general liability (contractors) insurance. 

 

Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability" (errors 
and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a year, we 
are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to cover us if I 
make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of failure or fire.

 

Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a home 
inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is something 
that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant to cover us if 
I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up being a problem or a 
hazard. 

 

With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I may be 
fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have something in my 
service contracts that would essentially say something like "we will do this 
work to the best of our ability", and then if something does go wrong and the 
homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove that we missed something 
that a reasonable person would have caught. My business manager does not like 
this because we could still have lots of lawyer fees and have to show up in 
court if we were to get sued, even if the problem was not caused by a lack of 
diligence on our part.

 

So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you just 
not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some wrenches on 
the site so that your general liability insurance covers your work? Or, is this 
a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in our head?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers,

Dave

 

-- 


 <https://www.sungineersolar.com/> 


Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar


p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>  www.sungineersolar.com
c: (607) 270-0370



 

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[RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal with
this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design work
for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system and
give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work
situations.

Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should
have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not
something that is covered under our general liability (contractors)
insurance.

Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability"
(errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a
year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to
cover us if I make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of
failure or fire.

Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a
home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is
something that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant
to cover us if I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up
being a problem or a hazard.

With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I may
be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have something
in my service contracts that would essentially say something like "we will
do this work to the best of our ability", and then if something does go
wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove that we
missed something that a reasonable person would have caught. My business
manager does not like this because we could still have lots of lawyer fees
and have to show up in court if we were to get sued, even if the problem
was not caused by a lack of diligence on our part.

So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you
just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some
wrenches on the site so that your general liability insurance covers your
work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in
our head?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers,
Dave

-- 
[image: Logo] 
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 
c: (607) 270-0370
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