Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

Dana's troubles with the Sol-Ark reminded me that I wanted to write about
my experience with Sol-Ark and Fortress as my troubles with that install
were unfolding. I had made many calls and emails to both Sol-Ark and
Fortress about the lack of charging and the odd generator behavior. Sol-Ark
was more available for conversations and troubleshooting than Fortress, but
after going through as much as they could think of, they decided the issues
must have been on Fortress' end. Fortress was not being very helpful, being
very short with their written responses and being difficult to get live on
a phone call. They basically said nothing on their end could be causing the
problems we were experiencing and threw it back into Sol-Ark's court.

I wrote a note to Fortress complaining about what I was considering the
unacceptable level of support I was getting primarily from Fortress.  After
a little back and forth, we finally got into a productive email and phone
exchange where they eventually let me know that they were just beginning to
see other problems with their closed loop pairing with Sol-Ark. At this
point, it seems that Sol-Ark did a firmware revision a few weeks ago, which
somehow caused just enough disruption to the Canbus communication with
Fortress, that it caused erratic seemingly random behavior between the 2
pieces of equipment, which neither manufacturer initial recognized as a
communication problem, but assumed must be a programming problem (which it
essentially was).

After the initial period of being largely blown off by Fortress, once they
started to recognize what the issue might be, they kicked in and have been
very responsive and helpful since. They quickly generated a new firmware
which they had done internal testing on and then we updated one set of
batteries a week ago.  As best as I can tell, so far the closed loop
communications and the system have operated well.  I hope to update the
larger system this week and switch it over to closed loop, as it has been
operating in open loop for several days now. Once we switch it over, I will
report back as to how it is working.

I do want to reiterate that after Fortress' (in my opinion) initial delayed
and less than helpful responses, I am pleased with the support I have since
been given.  I do think the way they've set up their support response needs
some significant tweaking, but it sounds like they are at least open to
getting feedback and suggestions from wrenches that are interested in doing
so.

Howie

*Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher*

*NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™*

*Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004*


On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 2:39 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I will additionally call Solark Tech & see what they have to contribute.
>
> Thanks all for the real world first!
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com  -  C - 208.721.*
> *7003*
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 4, 2022 11:11 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning
>
>
>
> This is interesting, set all aside temps, how its constructed, the power
> cycle is what changed it. Sounds like the inverter(s) were stuck in a
> finish charge, this may be a programming issue, is it available on line to
> watch remotely, has it done that again, next day?
>
> Fun times programming
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 5:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hey Now All Wise ones!
>
>
>
> An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting
> only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325
> watt 2 strings of 7 modules.
>
>
>
> Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @
> -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate
> consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps &
> full sun & 350watts solar input.
>
>
>
> He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW
> charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or
> warning.
>
>
>
> My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F
> scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy!
>
>
>
> I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a
> colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did
> not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.
>
>
>
> Thoughts & suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches]

I will additionally call Solark Tech & see what they have to contribute. 

Thanks all for the real world first!

 

 

Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  C - 208.721.7003 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 11:11 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jerry Shafer 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

 

This is interesting, set all aside temps, how its constructed, the power cycle 
is what changed it. Sounds like the inverter(s) were stuck in a finish charge, 
this may be a programming issue, is it available on line to watch remotely, has 
it done that again, next day?

Fun times programming 

 

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 5:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

Hey Now All Wise ones!

 

An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting only 350 
watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 watt 2 strings 
of 7 modules.

 

Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ -6˚F, 
he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate consistent 
350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & full sun & 
350watts solar input.

 

He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW charge 
input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or warning.

 

My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F scenario & 
110 PSF snow load. Beefy! 

 

I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a colder 
array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did not affect 
metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.

 

Thoughts & suggestions?

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com 
<mailto:d...@solarwork.com> 

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

www.greatsolarworks.com <http://www.greatsolarworks.com/> 
www.solarwor.com <http://www.solarwor.com>  

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

 

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

This is interesting, set all aside temps, how its constructed, the power
cycle is what changed it. Sounds like the inverter(s) were stuck in a
finish charge, this may be a programming issue, is it available on line to
watch remotely, has it done that again, next day?
Fun times programming

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 5:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hey Now All Wise ones!
>
>
>
> An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting
> only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325
> watt 2 strings of 7 modules.
>
>
>
> Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @
> -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate
> consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps &
> full sun & 350watts solar input.
>
>
>
> He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW
> charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or
> warning.
>
>
>
> My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F
> scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy!
>
>
>
> I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a
> colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did
> not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.
>
>
>
> Thoughts & suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> www.greatsolarworks.comwww.solarwor.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
>
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

That is not my experience with all of the xanbus model AES. Maybe the 
ones from 2018? All of the others will shut down the contactor and you 
will lose inverter to protect from charging at temps below 32F. There 
will be plenty of warnings and a fault event into the Conext Cloud 
devices or SCP.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2022-12-04 7:49 am, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote:

If they are the AES 48-6650 batteries I think they do not have low 
temperature mode, and will be damaged if they are charged while they 
are below freezing. The AES 48-3000 I think do have a low temperature 
mode and would prevent charging if they are below freezing.


Wind will tend to make any object closer to the ambient temperature, 
unless there is evaporation involved. So, if there is radiation to the 
sky making the object colder, the wind will warm it. If there is solar 
radiation making it warmer, wind will cool it off.  Warm animal bodies 
of course will be cooled by wind if the ambient temperature is below 
body temperature, and cooled even more by evaporation.


Brad

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 7:01 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Dual - Discoverer LI battery bank not sure on battery mode setting 
(written down but cannot locate at the moment) & no backup generator. 
Very conservative & minimalist client.  I over designed past his energy 
load evaluation request on purpose as he did not want to have to use a 
generator.


He has built the entire house off of 2 - small 12 volt PV systems & 
battery charging cordless tools. Living on site in the garage...


I am very impressed with his commitment to low impact & not a 
wackadoodle or survivalist either. Excellent classical, bluegrass, & 
jazz cellist.


Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  C - 208.721.7003

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf 
Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches

Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 7:41 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Mac Lewis 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

Hi Dana,

What type of batteries?  What battery mode?

If you have Lithium batteries with communication enabled, there are 
certain modes that the BMS is running the charging show.  I've seen the 
Sol-Ark throttle back charge as instructed by the BMS under these 
circumstances.


A quick check of this would be to start the generator and see if it's 
on the battery management side or PV only side.


It seems like you are way below the MPPT upper limit if Im looking at 
the correct QCell spec sheet.


As far as the temperature theory.  You can have temps on surfaces below 
ambient.  This can happen in two ways that I am aware of: radiation and 
evaporation.  The radiation effect occurs because the cold night sky 
(very cold) is exchanging heat with a surface.  This is why you can get 
ice on lakes above 32F.  It's very complex to model this but I doubt 
you could come close to lowering the temperature far enough to drive 
the Voc out of the MPP range.


Also, there will be competing heat exchange trying to drive that 
temperature back to ambient.  For example if you had a lot of wind in a 
clear cold night, the convection heat exchange from the wind would 
actually warm up the surface.


Evaporation (or any phase change) can drop an object's temperature 
below ambient as well.  It will pull latent thermal energy from objects 
in order to change the phase of the molecules.  This actually has a 
stabilizing effect on temperature typically because it takes a lot of 
energy to change phase.  This is why people use large water barrels in 
greenhouses to release latent energy to prevent freezing.


Please let us know what you find out.

Thanks!

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 6:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hey Now All Wise ones!

An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting 
only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 
325 watt 2 strings of 7 modules.


Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps 
@ -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge 
rate consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative 
temps & full sun & 350watts solar input.


He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW 
charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm 
or warning.


My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F 
scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy!


I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a 
colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill 
did not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being 
driven off.


Thoughts & suggestions?

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches]

Dana,
Sounds like potentially the same issue I've been dealing with in a new
Sol-Ark 15 paired with Fortress eVault Maxs. Apparently, Sol-Ark did a
recent firmware update that caused erratic closed loop communication
between the inverter and batteries. I don't know if the Sol-Ark firmware
update effected other inverter sizes. This Sol-Ark update resulted in weird
charging behavior and odd generator run times. Apparently, Fortress was
unaware of this communication issue until I and a few other installers
started reporting the odd behaviors. Fortress sent me a "beta" firmware
update which appears to have solved the problem. We're still waiting to
update a larger system to make sure the new firmware is stable and fully
effective.  In any case, this may or may not be the issue in your case, but
it may be worth raising the issue with AES and Sol-Ark.
Howie


On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 8:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hey Now All Wise ones!
>
>
>
> An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting
> only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325
> watt 2 strings of 7 modules.
>
>
>
> Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @
> -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate
> consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps &
> full sun & 350watts solar input.
>
>
>
> He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW
> charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or
> warning.
>
>
>
> My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F
> scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy!
>
>
>
> I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a
> colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did
> not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.
>
>
>
> Thoughts & suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> www.greatsolarworks.comwww.solarwor.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
>
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches]

If they are the AES 48-6650 batteries I think they do *not* have low
temperature mode, and will be damaged if they are charged while they are
below freezing. The AES 48-3000 I think *do* have a low temperature mode
and would prevent charging if they are below freezing.

Wind will tend to make any object closer to the ambient temperature, unless
there is evaporation involved. So, if there is radiation to the sky making
the object colder, the wind will warm it. If there is solar radiation
making it warmer, wind will cool it off.  Warm animal bodies of course will
be cooled by wind if the ambient temperature is below body temperature, and
cooled even more by evaporation.

Brad

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 7:01 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Dual - Discoverer LI battery bank not sure on battery mode setting
> (written down but cannot locate at the moment) & no backup generator. Very
> conservative & minimalist client.  I over designed past his energy load
> evaluation request on purpose as he did not want to have to use a
> generator.
>
> He has built the entire house off of 2 - small 12 volt PV systems &
> battery charging cordless tools. Living on site in the garage…
>
> I am very impressed with his commitment to low impact & not a wackadoodle
> or survivalist either. Excellent classical, bluegrass, & jazz cellist.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com  -  C - 208.721.*
> *7003*
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 4, 2022 7:41 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Mac Lewis 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning
>
>
>
> Hi Dana,
>
>
>
> What type of batteries?  What battery mode?
>
>
>
> If you have Lithium batteries with communication enabled, there are
> certain modes that the BMS is running the charging show.  I've seen the
> Sol-Ark throttle back charge as instructed by the BMS under these
> circumstances.
>
> A quick check of this would be to start the generator and see if it's on
> the battery management side or PV only side.
>
>
>
> It seems like you are way below the MPPT upper limit if Im looking at the
> correct QCell spec sheet.
>
>
>
> As far as the temperature theory.  You can have temps on surfaces below
> ambient.  This can happen in two ways that I am aware of: radiation and
> evaporation.  The radiation effect occurs because the cold night sky (very
> cold) is exchanging heat with a surface.  This is why you can get ice on
> lakes above 32F.  It's very complex to model this but I doubt you could
> come close to lowering the temperature far enough to drive the Voc out of
> the MPP range.
>
>
>
> Also, there will be competing heat exchange trying to drive that
> temperature back to ambient.  For example if you had a lot of wind in a
> clear cold night, the convection heat exchange from the wind would actually
> warm up the surface.
>
>
>
> Evaporation (or any phase change) can drop an object's temperature below
> ambient as well.  It will pull latent thermal energy from objects in order
> to change the phase of the molecules.  This actually has a stabilizing
> effect on temperature typically because it takes a lot of energy to change
> phase.  This is why people use large water barrels in greenhouses to
> release latent energy to prevent freezing.
>
>
>
> Please let us know what you find out.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 6:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hey Now All Wise ones!
>
>
>
> An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting
> only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325
> watt 2 strings of 7 modules.
>
>
>
> Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @
> -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate
> consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps &
> full sun & 350watts solar input.
>
>
>
> He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW
> charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or
> warning.
>
>
>
> My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F
> scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy!
>
>
>
> I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a
> colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did
> not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.
>
>
>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches]

Dual - Discoverer LI battery bank not sure on battery mode setting (written 
down but cannot locate at the moment) & no backup generator. Very conservative 
& minimalist client.  I over designed past his energy load evaluation request 
on purpose as he did not want to have to use a generator. 

He has built the entire house off of 2 - small 12 volt PV systems & battery 
charging cordless tools. Living on site in the garage…

I am very impressed with his commitment to low impact & not a wackadoodle or 
survivalist either. Excellent classical, bluegrass, & jazz cellist.

 

 

Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  C - 208.721.7003 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis via RE-wrenches
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 7:41 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Mac Lewis 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

 

Hi Dana,

 

What type of batteries?  What battery mode?

 

If you have Lithium batteries with communication enabled, there are certain 
modes that the BMS is running the charging show.  I've seen the Sol-Ark 
throttle back charge as instructed by the BMS under these circumstances.  

A quick check of this would be to start the generator and see if it's on the 
battery management side or PV only side. 

 

It seems like you are way below the MPPT upper limit if Im looking at the 
correct QCell spec sheet.

 

As far as the temperature theory.  You can have temps on surfaces below 
ambient.  This can happen in two ways that I am aware of: radiation and 
evaporation.  The radiation effect occurs because the cold night sky (very 
cold) is exchanging heat with a surface.  This is why you can get ice on lakes 
above 32F.  It's very complex to model this but I doubt you could come close to 
lowering the temperature far enough to drive the Voc out of the MPP range.

 

Also, there will be competing heat exchange trying to drive that temperature 
back to ambient.  For example if you had a lot of wind in a clear cold night, 
the convection heat exchange from the wind would actually warm up the surface.

 

Evaporation (or any phase change) can drop an object's temperature below 
ambient as well.  It will pull latent thermal energy from objects in order to 
change the phase of the molecules.  This actually has a stabilizing effect on 
temperature typically because it takes a lot of energy to change phase.  This 
is why people use large water barrels in greenhouses to release latent energy 
to prevent freezing.

 

Please let us know what you find out.

 

Thanks!

 

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 6:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

Hey Now All Wise ones!

 

An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting only 350 
watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 watt 2 strings 
of 7 modules.

 

Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ -6˚F, 
he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate consistent 
350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & full sun & 
350watts solar input.

 

He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW charge 
input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or warning.

 

My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F scenario & 
110 PSF snow load. Beefy! 

 

I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a colder 
array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did not affect 
metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.

 

Thoughts & suggestions?

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com 
<mailto:d...@solarwork.com> 

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

www.greatsolarworks.com <http://www.greatsolarworks.com/> 
www.solarwor.com <http://www.solarwor.com>  

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

 

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

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-- 

 

 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

__

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches]

Hi Dana,

What type of batteries?  What battery mode?

If you have Lithium batteries with communication enabled, there are certain
modes that the BMS is running the charging show.  I've seen the Sol-Ark
throttle back charge as instructed by the BMS under these circumstances.
A quick check of this would be to start the generator and see if it's on
the battery management side or PV only side.

It seems like you are way below the MPPT upper limit if Im looking at the
correct QCell spec sheet.

As far as the temperature theory.  You can have temps on surfaces below
ambient.  This can happen in two ways that I am aware of: radiation and
evaporation.  The radiation effect occurs because the cold night sky (very
cold) is exchanging heat with a surface.  This is why you can get ice on
lakes above 32F.  It's very complex to model this but I doubt you could
come close to lowering the temperature far enough to drive the Voc out of
the MPP range.

Also, there will be competing heat exchange trying to drive that
temperature back to ambient.  For example if you had a lot of wind in a
clear cold night, the convection heat exchange from the wind would actually
warm up the surface.

Evaporation (or any phase change) can drop an object's temperature below
ambient as well.  It will pull latent thermal energy from objects in order
to change the phase of the molecules.  This actually has a stabilizing
effect on temperature typically because it takes a lot of energy to change
phase.  This is why people use large water barrels in greenhouses to
release latent energy to prevent freezing.

Please let us know what you find out.

Thanks!

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 6:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hey Now All Wise ones!
>
>
>
> An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting
> only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325
> watt 2 strings of 7 modules.
>
>
>
> Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @
> -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate
> consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps &
> full sun & 350watts solar input.
>
>
>
> He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW
> charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or
> warning.
>
>
>
> My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F
> scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy!
>
>
>
> I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a
> colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did
> not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.
>
>
>
> Thoughts & suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> www.greatsolarworks.comwww.solarwor.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
>
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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> other:
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> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>

-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches]

Hi Dana,

If the battery is in closed loop with the inverter and the battery is cold,
it might be limiting charge due to cold temps.

Best,

Chris

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 8:21 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hey Now All Wise ones!
>
>
>
> An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting
> only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325
> watt 2 strings of 7 modules.
>
>
>
> Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @
> -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate
> consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps &
> full sun & 350watts solar input.
>
>
>
> He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW
> charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or
> warning.
>
>
>
> My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F
> scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy!
>
>
>
> I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a
> colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did
> not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.
>
>
>
> Thoughts & suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> www.greatsolarworks.comwww.solarwor.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
>
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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> other:
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>
> --
Chris Sparadeo


C_802-369-4458
H_802-728-3059
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[RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches]

Hey Now All Wise ones!

 

An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting only
350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 watt 2
strings of 7 modules.

 

Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ -
6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate
consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps &
full sun & 350watts solar input.

 

He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW
charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or
warning.

 

My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F
scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! 

 

I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a
colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did
not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.

 

Thoughts & suggestions?

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

www.greatsolarworks.com 
www.solarwor.com   

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

 

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

___
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