Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries

2016-10-14 Thread Dan Fink
I usually shoot for no more than 2-3 days autonomy time, no matter what
type of battery bank. Every off-grid home system requires a backup
generator anyway.

The only things magical in a positive way IMO about NiFe is that they don't
sulfate and therefore have a long life, can be stored for long periods of
time without charging, and that you can add more battery bank capacity
years down the road if needed.

I'm very happy with mine, but there was a learning curve and reprogramming
of chargers and controllers to NiFe's odd charge/discharge curve. They are
very different animals than lead-acid.

I am also glad I used my home office as the guinea pig for NiFe (1.5 years
now) before even trying to recommend them to a clientthey are not for
off-grid newbies (but at least the newbies wouldn't actually ruin them
unless they don't keep the electrolyte level up).

Let those folks burn through a set of golf cart batteries or a set of
L-16s, and then let's talk NiFeafter they observe and understand what's
really going on with their energy usage and energy input for awhile.

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Dana <d...@solarwork.com> wrote:

> I recommend 4 days backup min & 5 days backup if budget allows of storage
> and Iron Edison were saying that 2 days was sufficient. To clarify - I said
> “magical” as in wondering if there was something special, I-E did not say
> this.
>
>
>
> __
>
> Dana Orzel
>
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
>
> d...@solarwork.com  - www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.com>
>
> *O* - 970.626.5253*F* - 970.626.4140   c *- *208.721.7003
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988**"  *
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dan Fink
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 12:04 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison
> Batteries
>
>
>
> Tom; I have never seen Iron Edison saying NiFe is "magical" -- do you have
> a specific webpage on their site that says this?
>
> All batteries have advantages and disadvantages, and also myriad technical
> issues for the installer to overcome.
>
>
>
>
> Dan Fink
>
> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
>
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
>
> ~ PV Installation Professional
>
> ~ Small Wind Installer
>
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Tom Duffy <t...@solar-biz.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Dana
>
>
>
> Two thoughts… how many days of autonomy are they quoting?
>
>
>
> If nickel Iron were this magical how come nobody has noticed them for the
> past 100 years?
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> *Tom Duffy*
>
> *Senior Solar Design Engineer*
>
> [image: Solar-Biz-new-logo-800X300]
>
> *E-Mail: **t...@solar-biz.com <t...@solar-biz.com>*
>
> ***Please note my new email – You will now be able to find me at: 
> **t...@solar-biz.com
> <t...@solar-biz.com> Please update your records so we don’t lose touch!***
>
> *Main Number: **888-826-0939 <888-826-0939>*
>
> *Panama Office: **507-836-5588 X 122 <507-836-5588%20X%20122>*
>
> *Direct Toll Free:* *888-503-6772 <888-503-6772>*
>
> *International: **575-539-2111 X 122 <575-539-2111%20X%20122>*
>
> *SKYPE Address: **thesolarbiz (e-mail first)*
>
>
>
> NOTICE: *Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas,
> and oil...plus the current state of the economythe light at the
> end of the tunnel, has been turned off… It should have been solar.*
>
>  *Confidentiality Notice*: This message including any attachments is for
> the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender and delete any copies of this message.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dana
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batte

Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries

2016-10-14 Thread Dana
I recommend 4 days backup min & 5 days backup if budget allows of storage and 
Iron Edison were saying that 2 days was sufficient. To clarify - I said 
“magical” as in wondering if there was something special, I-E did not say this.
 
__
Dana Orzel 
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
 <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com  -  <http://www.solarwork.com> 
www.solarwork.biz 
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dan Fink
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 12:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries
 
Tom; I have never seen Iron Edison saying NiFe is "magical" -- do you have a 
specific webpage on their site that says this?
All batteries have advantages and disadvantages, and also myriad technical 
issues for the installer to overcome. 
 


Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
  970.672.4342

 
 
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Tom Duffy <t...@solar-biz.com> wrote:
Hi Dana
 
Two thoughts… how many days of autonomy are they quoting?
 
If nickel Iron were this magical how come nobody has noticed them for the past 
100 years?
 
Kind regards
 
Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer
Solar-Biz-new-logo-800X300
E-Mail:  <mailto:t...@solar-biz.com> t...@solar-biz.com
**Please note my new email – You will now be able to find me at:  
<mailto:t...@solar-biz.com> t...@solar-biz.com Please update your records so we 
don’t lose touch!**
Main Number: 888-826-0939
Panama Office: 507-836-5588 X 122 <tel:507-836-5588%20X%20122> 
Direct Toll Free: 888-503-6772
International: 575-539-2111 X 122 <tel:575-539-2111%20X%20122> 
SKYPE Address: thesolarbiz (e-mail first)
 
NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and 
oil...plus the current state of the economythe light at the end of 
the tunnel, has been turned off… It should have been solar.
 Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole 
use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
and delete any copies of this message.
 
 
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dana
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries
 
Good Morning All,
 
I have a charity case client that needs 760 to 900 AHR at 24 VDC. I have 
installed HUP Solar One Batteries for 20+ years and do not have any experience 
with the Iron Edison battery. My client went to Iron Edison & was told that 360 
AHR at 24 VDC would cover the same AHR as a 760 to 900 AHR in FLA.  I 
understand you can use the IE deeper typically than a FLA.
 
Math is math to me & how I have sized [successfully for years] Is there 
something I am missing or has my client been misinformed? 
 
__
Dana Orzel 
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
 <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com  -  <http://www.solarwork.com> 
www.solarwork.biz 
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries

2016-10-14 Thread Dan Fink
Tom; I have never seen Iron Edison saying NiFe is "magical" -- do you have
a specific webpage on their site that says this?
All batteries have advantages and disadvantages, and also myriad technical
issues for the installer to overcome.


Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Tom Duffy <t...@solar-biz.com> wrote:

> Hi Dana
>
>
>
> Two thoughts… how many days of autonomy are they quoting?
>
>
>
> If nickel Iron were this magical how come nobody has noticed them for the
> past 100 years?
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> *Tom Duffy*
>
> *Senior Solar Design Engineer*
>
> [image: Solar-Biz-new-logo-800X300]
>
> *E-Mail: **t...@solar-biz.com <t...@solar-biz.com>*
>
> ***Please note my new email – You will now be able to find me at: 
> **t...@solar-biz.com
> <t...@solar-biz.com> Please update your records so we don’t lose touch!***
>
> *Main Number: **888-826-0939 <888-826-0939>*
>
> *Panama Office: **507-836-5588 X 122 <507-836-5588%20X%20122>*
>
> *Direct Toll Free:* *888-503-6772 <888-503-6772>*
>
> *International: **575-539-2111 X 122 <575-539-2111%20X%20122>*
>
> *SKYPE Address: **thesolarbiz (e-mail first)*
>
>
>
> NOTICE: *Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas,
> and oil...plus the current state of the economythe light at the
> end of the tunnel, has been turned off… It should have been solar.*
>
>  *Confidentiality Notice*: This message including any attachments is for
> the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender and delete any copies of this message.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dana
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries
>
>
>
> Good Morning All,
>
>
>
> I have a charity case client that needs 760 to 900 AHR at 24 VDC. I have
> installed HUP Solar One Batteries for 20+ years and do not have any
> experience with the Iron Edison battery. My client went to Iron Edison &
> was told that 360 AHR at 24 VDC would cover the same AHR as a 760 to 900
> AHR in FLA.  I understand you can use the IE deeper typically than a FLA.
>
>
>
> Math is math to me & how I have sized [successfully for years] Is there
> something I am missing or has my client been misinformed?
>
>
>
> __
>
> Dana Orzel
>
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
>
> d...@solarwork.com  - www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.com>
>
> *O* - 970.626.5253*F* - 970.626.4140   c *- *208.721.7003
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988**"  *
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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> org/maillist.html
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> Check out or update participant bios:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries

2016-10-14 Thread Dan Fink
Tom, Dana -- I'm quite happy with the nickel iron battery bank that runs my
office. But you as the installer have to deal with the odd charge /
discharge curves and program the equipment to work with that. Just like any
other battery technology that is not lead-acid.

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Tom Duffy <t...@solar-biz.com> wrote:

> Hi Dana
>
>
>
> Two thoughts… how many days of autonomy are they quoting?
>
>
>
> If nickel Iron were this magical how come nobody has noticed them for the
> past 100 years?
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> *Tom Duffy*
>
> *Senior Solar Design Engineer*
>
> [image: Solar-Biz-new-logo-800X300]
>
> *E-Mail: **t...@solar-biz.com <t...@solar-biz.com>*
>
> ***Please note my new email – You will now be able to find me at: 
> **t...@solar-biz.com
> <t...@solar-biz.com> Please update your records so we don’t lose touch!***
>
> *Main Number: **888-826-0939 <888-826-0939>*
>
> *Panama Office: **507-836-5588 X 122 <507-836-5588%20X%20122>*
>
> *Direct Toll Free:* *888-503-6772 <888-503-6772>*
>
> *International: **575-539-2111 X 122 <575-539-2111%20X%20122>*
>
> *SKYPE Address: **thesolarbiz (e-mail first)*
>
>
>
> NOTICE: *Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas,
> and oil...plus the current state of the economythe light at the
> end of the tunnel, has been turned off… It should have been solar.*
>
>  *Confidentiality Notice*: This message including any attachments is for
> the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender and delete any copies of this message.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dana
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries
>
>
>
> Good Morning All,
>
>
>
> I have a charity case client that needs 760 to 900 AHR at 24 VDC. I have
> installed HUP Solar One Batteries for 20+ years and do not have any
> experience with the Iron Edison battery. My client went to Iron Edison &
> was told that 360 AHR at 24 VDC would cover the same AHR as a 760 to 900
> AHR in FLA.  I understand you can use the IE deeper typically than a FLA.
>
>
>
> Math is math to me & how I have sized [successfully for years] Is there
> something I am missing or has my client been misinformed?
>
>
>
> __
>
> Dana Orzel
>
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
>
> d...@solarwork.com  - www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.com>
>
> *O* - 970.626.5253*F* - 970.626.4140   c *- *208.721.7003
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988**"  *
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
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>
> Check out or update participant bios:
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>
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>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries

2016-10-14 Thread Tom Duffy
Hi Dana

Two thoughts... how many days of autonomy are they quoting?

If nickel Iron were this magical how come nobody has noticed them for the past 
100 years?

Kind regards

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer
[Solar-Biz-new-logo-800X300]
E-Mail: t...@solar-biz.com<mailto:t...@solar-biz.com>
**Please note my new email - You will now be able to find me at: 
t...@solar-biz.com<mailto:t...@solar-biz.com> Please update your records so we 
don't lose touch!**
Main Number: 888-826-0939
Panama Office: 507-836-5588 X 122
Direct Toll Free: 888-503-6772
International: 575-539-2111 X 122
SKYPE Address: thesolarbiz (e-mail first)

NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and 
oil...plus the current state of the economythe light at the end of 
the tunnel, has been turned off... It should have been solar.
 Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole 
use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
and delete any copies of this message.


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dana
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries

Good Morning All,

I have a charity case client that needs 760 to 900 AHR at 24 VDC. I have 
installed HUP Solar One Batteries for 20+ years and do not have any experience 
with the Iron Edison battery. My client went to Iron Edison & was told that 360 
AHR at 24 VDC would cover the same AHR as a 760 to 900 AHR in FLA.  I 
understand you can use the IE deeper typically than a FLA.

Math is math to me & how I have sized [successfully for years] Is there 
something I am missing or has my client been misinformed?

__
Dana Orzel
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
d...@solarwork.com<mailto:d...@solarwork.com>  - 
www.solarwork.biz<http://www.solarwork.com>
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"

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[RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries

2016-10-14 Thread Dana
Good Morning All,
 
I have a charity case client that needs 760 to 900 AHR at 24 VDC. I have
installed HUP Solar One Batteries for 20+ years and do not have any
experience with the Iron Edison battery. My client went to Iron Edison & was
told that 360 AHR at 24 VDC would cover the same AHR as a 760 to 900 AHR in
FLA.  I understand you can use the IE deeper typically than a FLA.
 
Math is math to me & how I have sized [successfully for years] Is there
something I am missing or has my client been misinformed? 
 
__
Dana Orzel 
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
  d...@solarwork.com  -
 www.solarwork.biz 
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 
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