Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter-generator question

[jay]

A mate 3 will work with any OB model.
I’ve got one on my 14 year old vfx
jay


> On Dec 17, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Sindelar Solar  wrote:
> 
> Ron,
> 
> I agree with Jerry here, and will add a bit more. I'll venture that neither 
> generator is being seriously hurt, but neither is what's happening good for 
> them.
> 
> This is a case where more specific info is needed to diagnose the problem 
> remotely. VFX or VFXR? Which specific Honda generator? What is the site 
> elevation for deration (looks like you're in BC, so maybe 2,000')?
> 
> This points out the importance of including a Mate in such a remote location, 
> as that's your only diagnostic tool when something goes amiss. In that region 
> with its short cloudy days the loss of generator charging in winter could be 
> dangerous or worse.
> 
> I'm gonna guess that he has the Honda EM 5000is generator. I haven't seen or 
> worked with that model, but I'm familiar with the older 3000is. These are 
> inverter-based generators. The 3000 was a fair choice with the early Outback 
> FX and VFX series, because the 120V output matched the input of the Outback. 
> (The primary issue was overly-fast overload response, faster than the FX 
> could control its surge input while charging batteries. The gennie would 
> sometimes pop its output breaker if a pump or fridge came on; if the owner 
> didn't hear the engine speed drop it could run for hours without doing 
> anything.) The 5000 is 120/240, with a user-accessible *"120/240V Selector 
> Switch: *Choose between using both 120 and 240 Volts, or 120 Volts only. This 
> allows for the total generator output to be available through any of the 120 
> volt outlets, limited only by the capacity of the individual outlet."
> 
> My guess is the customer has accidentally set the switch on 120/240, so only 
> one leg is feeding the FX. The FX is set to take the full 120V output, so is 
> overloading the 1/2-output leg. The inverter can't hold acceptable voltage 
> and unlatches, then repeats its input sequence. When the load drops out the 
> gennie drops to idle. Have him check this switch first.
> 
> If not this you may have to do a call, bringing a Mate with you. (I don't 
> know if a modern Mate3 will work with the non-R VFX, but an OB tech can 
> likely tell you, if you can reach one.)
> 
> Good luck diagnosing at a distance - I hope that it's just the switch.
> 
> Allan
> 
> On 12/16/2017 7:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>> Ron
>> A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill and
>> only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen them with
>> hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so it might be
>> over throttling the little inverter. You did not say anything about the
>> batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss match it is not
>> surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type panel or anything
>> besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see parts required to make
>> this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit if there was no proper
>> programming done. these can be fun to get all fixed up right and doing what
>> they are designed to do.
>> Jerry
>> 255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with this
>> as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the batteries
>> were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l did not take
>> any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not sealed AGM's
>> 
>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young 
>> wrote:
>>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
>>> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues.
>>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
>>> believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is
>>> probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t
>>> identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to
>>> travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
>>> 
>>> Here is his recent email:
>>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
>>> an error.
>>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
>>> installed it.
>>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
>>> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
>>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
>>> rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a
>>> higher rpm.
>>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
>>> fine for about 1.5 hours.
>>> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
>>> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
>>> rpm go up.
>>> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
>>> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter-generator question

[Sindelar Solar]

Ron,

I agree with Jerry here, and will add a bit more. I'll venture that 
neither generator is being seriously hurt, but neither is what's 
happening good for them.


This is a case where more specific info is needed to diagnose the 
problem remotely. VFX or VFXR? Which specific Honda generator? What is 
the site elevation for deration (looks like you're in BC, so maybe 2,000')?


This points out the importance of including a Mate in such a remote 
location, as that's your only diagnostic tool when something goes amiss. 
In that region with its short cloudy days the loss of generator charging 
in winter could be dangerous or worse.


I'm gonna guess that he has the Honda EM 5000is generator. I haven't 
seen or worked with that model, but I'm familiar with the older 3000is. 
These are inverter-based generators. The 3000 was a fair choice with the 
early Outback FX and VFX series, because the 120V output matched the 
input of the Outback. (The primary issue was overly-fast overload 
response, faster than the FX could control its surge input while 
charging batteries. The gennie would sometimes pop its output breaker if 
a pump or fridge came on; if the owner didn't hear the engine speed drop 
it could run for hours without doing anything.) The 5000 is 120/240, 
with a user-accessible *"120/240V Selector Switch: *Choose between using 
both 120 and 240 Volts, or 120 Volts only. This allows for the total 
generator output to be available through any of the 120 volt outlets, 
limited only by the capacity of the individual outlet."


My guess is the customer has accidentally set the switch on 120/240, so 
only one leg is feeding the FX. The FX is set to take the full 120V 
output, so is overloading the 1/2-output leg. The inverter can't hold 
acceptable voltage and unlatches, then repeats its input sequence. When 
the load drops out the gennie drops to idle. Have him check this switch 
first.


If not this you may have to do a call, bringing a Mate with you. (I 
don't know if a modern Mate3 will work with the non-R VFX, but an OB 
tech can likely tell you, if you can reach one.)


Good luck diagnosing at a distance - I hope that it's just the switch.

Allan

On 12/16/2017 7:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Ron
A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill and
only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen them with
hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so it might be
over throttling the little inverter. You did not say anything about the
batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss match it is not
surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type panel or anything
besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see parts required to make
this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit if there was no proper
programming done. these can be fun to get all fixed up right and doing what
they are designed to do.
Jerry
255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with this
as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the batteries
were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l did not take
any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not sealed AGM's

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young 
wrote:

Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues.
He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is
probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t
identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to
travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).

Here is his recent email:
-Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
an error.
-My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
installed it.
-The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
-My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a
higher rpm.
-I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
fine for about 1.5 hours.
-Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
rpm go up.
-If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
inverter re-engages.

What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator,
but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the
power.

Ron Young
earthRight - Solareagle


*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

One of the nice things about the Honda 6500i that I keep for a customer
spare is that it can safely run 120 at near full output. It can do 240 as
well and was replaced by the honda 7000i.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> Dial down the max AC input, to something like 16 A at 120 volts or less
> depending on elevation. Then you can use this small gen set. The gen
> dropping out of synch means a tune up at least is in its future, or like
> you say, worse.
>
> Chris Worcester
> Solar Wind Works
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
> Office 530-582-4503
> Cell 530-448-9692
> Fax 530-582-4603
> www.solarwindworks.com
> ch...@solarwindworks.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 7:32 PM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question
>
> They need to add a transformer to operate the generator at full power. As
> Jerry noted, running at 120 vac, they are only pulling off one leg of the
> generator.  This unequal loading can damage the generator.  I'm guessing
> they damaged both Hondas.  A transformer will allow the generator to
> operate at 240 vac, and step down to 120 vac for the inverter input.  At
> that point, a Honda 5 K becomes a decent match for that inverter.  In its
> current state, they will just keep frying generators.  Some generators
> offer full 120 vac output, like the Ecogen.  Either way these folks need
> to spend some money on the right generator or a transformer and repair the
> old generators.
>
> Ray Walters
>
> On 12/16/2017 7:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>> Ron
>> A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill
>> and only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen
>> them with hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so
>> it might be over throttling the little inverter. You did not say
>> anything about the batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss
>> match it is not surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type
>> panel or anything besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see
>> parts required to make this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit
>> if there was no proper programming done. these can be fun to get all
>> fixed up right and doing what they are designed to do.
>> Jerry
>> 255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with
>> this as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the
>> batteries were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l
>> did not take any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not
>> sealed AGM's
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young <solarea...@solareagle.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter
>>> in June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having
>>> issues.
>>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but
>>> I believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it.
>>> He is probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate
>>> so can’t identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am
>>> currently unable to travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major
>>> BC wildfires).
>>>
>>> Here is his recent email:
>>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and
>>> throwing an error.
>>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since
>>> you installed it.
>>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes
>>> to float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
>>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a
>>> low rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still
>>> won’t hold a higher rpm.
>>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be
>>> doing fine for about 1.5 hours.
>>> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
>>> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the
>>> generator rpm go up.
>>> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then
>>> the inverter re-engages.
>>>
>>> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed
>>> generator, but we can’t systematically byp

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Chris Worcester]

Dial down the max AC input, to something like 16 A at 120 volts or less 
depending on elevation. Then you can use this small gen set. The gen dropping 
out of synch means a tune up at least is in its future, or like you say, worse.

Chris Worcester
Solar Wind Works
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Office 530-582-4503
Cell 530-448-9692
Fax 530-582-4603
www.solarwindworks.com
ch...@solarwindworks.com


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 7:32 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

They need to add a transformer to operate the generator at full power. As Jerry 
noted, running at 120 vac, they are only pulling off one leg of the generator.  
This unequal loading can damage the generator.  I'm guessing they damaged both 
Hondas.  A transformer will allow the generator to operate at 240 vac, and step 
down to 120 vac for the inverter input.  At that point, a Honda 5 K becomes a 
decent match for that inverter.  In its current state, they will just keep 
frying generators.  Some generators offer full 120 vac output, like the Ecogen. 
 Either way these folks need to spend some money on the right generator or a 
transformer and repair the old generators.

Ray Walters

On 12/16/2017 7:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
> Ron
> A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill 
> and only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen 
> them with hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so 
> it might be over throttling the little inverter. You did not say 
> anything about the batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss 
> match it is not surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type 
> panel or anything besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see 
> parts required to make this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit 
> if there was no proper programming done. these can be fun to get all 
> fixed up right and doing what they are designed to do.
> Jerry
> 255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with 
> this as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the 
> batteries were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l 
> did not take any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not 
> sealed AGM's
>
> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young <solarea...@solareagle.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter 
>> in June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues.
>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but 
>> I believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. 
>> He is probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate 
>> so can’t identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am 
>> currently unable to travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC 
>> wildfires).
>>
>> Here is his recent email:
>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and 
>> throwing an error.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since 
>> you installed it.
>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes 
>> to float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a 
>> low rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still 
>> won’t hold a higher rpm.
>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be 
>> doing fine for about 1.5 hours.
>> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter 
>> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the 
>> generator rpm go up.
>> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then 
>> the inverter re-engages.
>>
>> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed 
>> generator, but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the 
>> house requires the power.
>>
>> Ron Young
>> earthRight - Solareagle
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Darryl Thayer]

Hi Chris
I have had a similar experience.  This was an off-grid home, built in
2003, the generator a Honda construction generator rated 6.5 kW.  The
batteries were Rolls 350 AH, 6-volt, L-16.  The inverter Outback FX3024.
The batteries lasted only 7 years, then replaced with a second set similar
Rolls, they lasted only 7 years.  ( I believe the short life was due to the
insulated battery box)
Shortly after the third set of batteries were installed the inverter
started to "kick off"  the mate said it shut down (disconnected on
overvoltage).  I replaced with a new FX3024, exactly the same overvoltage.
The generator had not done this for it first 14 years of service.  I put a
load electric heater on for ballast, the same overvoltage occurred. My peak
hold voltmeter said it was hitting 176 volts.  This is connected to one 120
volt receptacle on the generator.  I then concluded it was the generator
AVR that was causing the problem because with only the milkhouse 1500 watt
heater connected the Generator would voltage spike.

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> Ron
> A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill and
> only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen them with
> hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so it might be
> over throttling the little inverter. You did not say anything about the
> batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss match it is not
> surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type panel or anything
> besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see parts required to make
> this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit if there was no proper
> programming done. these can be fun to get all fixed up right and doing what
> they are designed to do.
> Jerry
> 255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with this
> as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the batteries
> were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l did not take
> any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not sealed AGM's
>
> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young 
> wrote:
>
> > Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
> > June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having
> issues.
> > He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
> > believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is
> > probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t
> > identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable
> to
> > travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
> >
> > Here is his recent email:
> > -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
> > an error.
> > -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
> > installed it.
> > -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
> > float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
> > -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
> > rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a
> > higher rpm.
> > -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
> > fine for about 1.5 hours.
> > -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
> > system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
> > rpm go up.
> > -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
> > inverter re-engages.
> >
> > What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator,
> > but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires
> the
> > power.
> >
> > Ron Young
> > earthRight - Solareagle
> > ___
> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> >
> > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> >
> > Change listserver email address & settings:
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> >
> > List rules & etiquette:
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> >
> > Check out or update participant bios:
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> >
> >
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Ray]

They need to add a transformer to operate the generator at full power.  
As Jerry noted, running at 120 vac, they are only pulling off one leg of 
the generator.  This unequal loading can damage the generator.  I'm 
guessing they damaged both Hondas.  A transformer will allow the 
generator to operate at 240 vac, and step down to 120 vac for the 
inverter input.  At that point, a Honda 5 K becomes a decent match for 
that inverter.  In its current state, they will just keep frying 
generators.  Some generators offer full 120 vac output, like the 
Ecogen.  Either way these folks need to spend some money on the right 
generator or a transformer and repair the old generators.


Ray Walters

On 12/16/2017 7:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Ron
A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill and
only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen them with
hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so it might be
over throttling the little inverter. You did not say anything about the
batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss match it is not
surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type panel or anything
besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see parts required to make
this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit if there was no proper
programming done. these can be fun to get all fixed up right and doing what
they are designed to do.
Jerry
255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with this
as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the batteries
were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l did not take
any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not sealed AGM's

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young 
wrote:


Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues.
He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is
probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t
identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to
travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).

Here is his recent email:
-Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
an error.
-My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
installed it.
-The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
-My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a
higher rpm.
-I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
fine for about 1.5 hours.
-Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
rpm go up.
-If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
inverter re-engages.

What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator,
but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the
power.

Ron Young
earthRight - Solareagle
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Jerry Shafer]

Ron
A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill and
only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen them with
hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so it might be
over throttling the little inverter. You did not say anything about the
batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss match it is not
surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type panel or anything
besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see parts required to make
this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit if there was no proper
programming done. these can be fun to get all fixed up right and doing what
they are designed to do.
Jerry
255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with this
as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the batteries
were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l did not take
any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not sealed AGM's

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young 
wrote:

> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues.
> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
> believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is
> probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t
> identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to
> travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
>
> Here is his recent email:
> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
> an error.
> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
> installed it.
> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
> rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a
> higher rpm.
> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
> fine for about 1.5 hours.
> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
> rpm go up.
> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
> inverter re-engages.
>
> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator,
> but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the
> power.
>
> Ron Young
> earthRight - Solareagle
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Chris Worcester]

Hi fellow wrenches,

We have a client with the two of the original FX2024 inverters on the PS2 with 
the X240, serial numbers below 100. The original boards were replaced a couple 
years later. Now we are in a search for the board sets again. An option is to 
upgrade to newer inverters of course, if we can find a pair of VFX3524’s, that 
will satisfy the client. Thanks and don’t hesitate to contact me off list if 
you have these on the shelf.

 

Chris Worcester

Solar Wind Works

NABCEP Certified PV Installer

Office 530-582-4503

Cell 530-448-9692

Fax 530-582-4603

www.solarwindworks.com

ch...@solarwindworks.com

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Wallace Stahle
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:17 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

 

Hi Ron,

 

An off list question posed to me asked how the non PFC charger could impact the 
results I described. 

I dont actually have a good answer for that. I simply see the bad results from 
the interaction of the Honda AVR and the VFX charger and the normal charging 
results of the MS2812 with the same Honda an hour later.

 

It was suggested that the PFC function alone would not be the issue but more 
likely the AVR.

No argument there. Although the gen output voltage would rise when charging 
when first looking into the problem.

The AVR was replaced that time. Normal function returned for several months 
then the described malfunction came to a head. Honda AVR topology vs FX charger 
topology would be my first though not proven conclusion.

 

Here is the latest comments from the list member who may have been considering 
my ego by asking me off list.

 

Is it possible the inverter was part of the problem, sure.  But replacing it 
with a magnum wasn’t the fix, the new inverter was.

Why was it the problem, harder to know.  Things do break, and which caused 
which we’ll never know.  Did the inverter have issues which caused the AVR to 
fail or did the AVR cause the inverter to be damaged?  But I don’t believe the 
issue of not having a PF corrected charger is an issue.  

Way too many OB in the field with no issues for that.

 

Yes the magnum has a PF corrected charger which puts less load on the 
generator, but thats all.  

 

So to re-summerize my improved conclusion: take pains to observe AC voltages in 
all three modes. Gen direct to loads if possible, inverter output only, then AC 
output while charging. Look to Honda AVR unit as possible cause

Thanks to Jay for not letting questionable conclusions go unquestioned.

 

Wallace Stahle

Future Electric Energy Co

PO Box 236

Willits, CA 95490

707-459-0474

Lic.#C10-762093

fut...@pacific.net

 

On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Ron Young <solarea...@solareagle.com> wrote:

 

Thanks Wallace, the thing is, the VFX3524 is not a cheap inverter and should 
perform well with a generator. However with the customer reporting his concerns 
about high heat in the inverter and now these problems I’m not sure where to 
pin the problem. I’ll see if he will check the inverter and gen. voltage 
output. 

Ron Young




On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Wallace Stahle <wsta...@pacific.net> wrote:

I would look at the generator output voltage with charger in standby. 
Oops no mate = no control. Find a way to power loads directly and monitor gen 
voltage. With true RMS meter.
Check inverter output voltage alone. Then check AC voltage while trying to 
charge. 

I would suggest the AVR (auto voltage regulator) on the generator is drifting 
to a higher voltage, and/or the non power factor corrected charger in the FX is 
having a rather negative effect on the generator output WHILE charging. The 
error light reflects out of spec AC input I surmisre

A few years ago  a three year old VFX2812 began to misbehave on a system with 
Honda EM model gen. After observing high gen voltage, up to 134 v AC the AVR 
was replaced, Some improvement resulted. Not long after, the customer reported 
fried surge protecter plug strips and continuing light flickering beyond the 
usual variations.
I observed rapid voltage changes while charging, strange noise from the 
inverter and unacceptable down stream effects while charging.
I installed a Magnum  MS2812 in its place and all the ill effects were 
resolved. 

I will only consider a PFC charger since then. Budget not the only value to 
consider. Or rather pay now or pay later.
The customer absorbed the fried plug strips and some misc. equipment.  I 
absorbed the new Magnum  cost (and suspect VFX2812) and the lesson on 
interactions between equipment. Some things dont play well with other things.

Wallace Stahle
Future Electric Energy Co
PO Box 236
Willits, CA 95490
707-459-0474
Lic.#C10-762093
fut...@pacific.net






On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:32 PM, Ron Young <solarea...@solareagle.com> wrote:

Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in June. 
He’s using a Honda

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Wallace Stahle]

Hi Ron,

An off list question posed to me asked how the non PFC charger could impact the 
results I described. 
I dont actually have a good answer for that. I simply see the bad results from 
the interaction of the Honda AVR and the VFX charger and the normal charging 
results of the MS2812 with the same Honda an hour later.

It was suggested that the PFC function alone would not be the issue but more 
likely the AVR.
No argument there. Although the gen output voltage would rise when charging 
when first looking into the problem.
The AVR was replaced that time. Normal function returned for several months 
then the described malfunction came to a head. Honda AVR topology vs FX charger 
topology would be my first though not proven conclusion.

Here is the latest comments from the list member who may have been considering 
my ego by asking me off list.

Is it possible the inverter was part of the problem, sure.  But replacing it 
with a magnum wasn’t the fix, the new inverter was.
Why was it the problem, harder to know.  Things do break, and which caused 
which we’ll never know.  Did the inverter have issues which caused the AVR to 
fail or did the AVR cause the inverter to be damaged?  But I don’t believe the 
issue of not having a PF corrected charger is an issue.  
Way too many OB in the field with no issues for that.

Yes the magnum has a PF corrected charger which puts less load on the 
generator, but thats all.  

So to re-summerize my improved conclusion: take pains to observe AC voltages in 
all three modes. Gen direct to loads if possible, inverter output only, then AC 
output while charging. Look to Honda AVR unit as possible cause
Thanks to Jay for not letting questionable conclusions go unquestioned.

Wallace Stahle
Future Electric Energy Co
PO Box 236
Willits, CA 95490
707-459-0474
Lic.#C10-762093
fut...@pacific.net

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Ron Young  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Wallace, the thing is, the VFX3524 is not a cheap inverter and should 
> perform well with a generator. However with the customer reporting his 
> concerns about high heat in the inverter and now these problems I’m not sure 
> where to pin the problem. I’ll see if he will check the inverter and gen. 
> voltage output. 
> 
> Ron Young
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Wallace Stahle  wrote:
>> 
>> I would look at the generator output voltage with charger in standby. 
>> Oops no mate = no control. Find a way to power loads directly and monitor 
>> gen voltage. With true RMS meter.
>> Check inverter output voltage alone. Then check AC voltage while trying to 
>> charge. 
>> 
>> I would suggest the AVR (auto voltage regulator) on the generator is 
>> drifting to a higher voltage, and/or the non power factor corrected charger 
>> in the FX is having a rather negative effect on the generator output WHILE 
>> charging. The error light reflects out of spec AC input I surmisre
>> 
>> A few years ago  a three year old VFX2812 began to misbehave on a system 
>> with Honda EM model gen. After observing high gen voltage, up to 134 v AC 
>> the AVR was replaced, Some improvement resulted. Not long after, the 
>> customer reported fried surge protecter plug strips and continuing light 
>> flickering beyond the usual variations.
>> I observed rapid voltage changes while charging, strange noise from the 
>> inverter and unacceptable down stream effects while charging.
>> I installed a Magnum  MS2812 in its place and all the ill effects were 
>> resolved. 
>> 
>> I will only consider a PFC charger since then. Budget not the only value to 
>> consider. Or rather pay now or pay later.
>> The customer absorbed the fried plug strips and some misc. equipment.  I 
>> absorbed the new Magnum  cost (and suspect VFX2812) and the lesson on 
>> interactions between equipment. Some things dont play well with other things.
>> 
>> Wallace Stahle
>> Future Electric Energy Co
>> PO Box 236
>> Willits, CA 95490
>> 707-459-0474
>> Lic.#C10-762093
>> fut...@pacific.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:32 PM, Ron Young  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in 
>>> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues. 
>>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I 
>>> believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is 
>>> probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t 
>>> identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to 
>>> travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
>>> 
>>> Here is his recent email:
>>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing 
>>> an error.
>>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you 
>>> installed it. 
>>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to 
>>> float, the 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Ron Young]

Hi Dave, I’m trying to get the customer to do a manual AC bypass but have to be 
careful about going over the clients technical ability to the point where he 
will cause more problems. Dealing with the vagaries of peoples choices is not 
always so cut and dried unfortunately. This client has money but will not spend 
it properly. In a small business you don’t often get to choose your customers. 
By the way the current fires out here, that have been raging for over a month 
now, are insane. Just one fire covers over 500,000 acres! I have been locked 
down at my property for 35 days because if I leave I will not be allowed back 
in.

Ron Young

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>  wrote:
> 
> Agree Dan if this is troubleshooting an installation done by someone else.
> On the other hand, it is our responsibility at the design phase to not
> even give the option of not having good Com's and AC bypass switching. The
> AC by pass would tell you quite a bit here about if the generator, the
> load, or the Inverter/charger was the source.
> 
> I have clients who are pretty clueless but I can get on the phone and walk
> them thru the data/button pushing for my troubleshooting.
> 
> Fires are nasty! We had 5,000 people evacuated for 7 days here 10 days ago
> in temperatures near 100F. Quite a few science projects inside those
> refrigerators!! I had a fire guy tell me if I leave my land they would not
> let me back in. Since this happens every 3 years or so we always stay as
> there never is an engine here until the fire goes by.
> 
> An E ticket ride watching the air attack!
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> For situations like these, unfortunately I've found that it's very handy
>> to
>> keep a remote each for Outback, Magnum and Conext in the troubleshooting
>> tool bag. Without a Mate (preferably a Mate 3) you are driving the highway
>> with a tarp over your windshield, and have to navigate by blinky colored
>> lights telling you where to exit onto the dirt road.
>> 
>> What blinky light error code is the inverter throwing at him?
>> 
>> I don't understand why clients won't spring for these relatively
>> inexpensive, essential remotes, but it's the same with battery SOC
>> monitoring coulomb counters up here off the grid. You just spent $10K on
>> an
>> offgrid power system, and can't afford a remote (I now call them "inverter
>> control panels" to clients) or a SOC monitor ("battery control panel")?
>> But
>> that's how it is, over and over again.
>> 
>> So sorry that you can't get to the site because of the fires, I have been
>> through that here in Colorado. I'd suggest tinkering with the inverter
>> charger settings and try lowering the load percentage to the generator,
>> but
>> without a Mate you can't do that.
>> 
>> I sincerely hope that Tump's suggestion is correct and that your client
>> has
>> auto-idle turned on with the Honda. My only Honda issue has been the 3kW
>> "cube" with a magnum inverter, all the 5kW Hondas have been fine with any
>> inverter brand.
>> 
>> Best regards;
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Fink
>> Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
>> IREC Certified Instructorâ„¢ for:
>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providersâ„¢
>> 970.672.4342
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Tump > 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Make sure that the client has the AUTO idle  set to OFF!
>>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 8:32 PM, Ron Young >> >
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
>>> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having
>>> issues.
>>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
>>> believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He
>>> is
>>> probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so
>>> can’t
>>> identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable
>>> to
>>> travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
>>> 
>>> Here is his recent email:
>>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and
>>> throwing
>>> an error.
>>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since
>>> you
>>> installed it.
>>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
>>> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
>>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
>>> rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t
>>> hold a
>>> higher rpm.
>>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
>>> fine for about 1.5 hours.
>>> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
>>> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the
>>> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Ron Young]

Thanks Wallace, the thing is, the VFX3524 is not a cheap inverter and should 
perform well with a generator. However with the customer reporting his concerns 
about high heat in the inverter and now these problems I’m not sure where to 
pin the problem. I’ll see if he will check the inverter and gen. voltage 
output. 

Ron Young
  
> On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Wallace Stahle  wrote:
> 
> I would look at the generator output voltage with charger in standby. 
> Oops no mate = no control. Find a way to power loads directly and monitor gen 
> voltage. With true RMS meter.
> Check inverter output voltage alone. Then check AC voltage while trying to 
> charge. 
> 
> I would suggest the AVR (auto voltage regulator) on the generator is drifting 
> to a higher voltage, and/or the non power factor corrected charger in the FX 
> is having a rather negative effect on the generator output WHILE charging. 
> The error light reflects out of spec AC input I surmisre
> 
> A few years ago  a three year old VFX2812 began to misbehave on a system with 
> Honda EM model gen. After observing high gen voltage, up to 134 v AC the AVR 
> was replaced, Some improvement resulted. Not long after, the customer 
> reported fried surge protecter plug strips and continuing light flickering 
> beyond the usual variations.
> I observed rapid voltage changes while charging, strange noise from the 
> inverter and unacceptable down stream effects while charging.
> I installed a Magnum  MS2812 in its place and all the ill effects were 
> resolved. 
> 
> I will only consider a PFC charger since then. Budget not the only value to 
> consider. Or rather pay now or pay later.
> The customer absorbed the fried plug strips and some misc. equipment.  I 
> absorbed the new Magnum  cost (and suspect VFX2812) and the lesson on 
> interactions between equipment. Some things dont play well with other things.
> 
> Wallace Stahle
> Future Electric Energy Co
> PO Box 236
> Willits, CA 95490
> 707-459-0474
> Lic.#C10-762093
> fut...@pacific.net
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:32 PM, Ron Young  wrote:
>> 
>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in 
>> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues. 
>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I 
>> believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is 
>> probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t 
>> identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to 
>> travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
>> 
>> Here is his recent email:
>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing an 
>> error.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you 
>> installed it. 
>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to 
>> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low rpm, 
>> not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a higher 
>> rpm.
>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing 
>> fine for about 1.5 hours. 
>> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter system 
>> throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator rpm go up.
>> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the 
>> inverter re-engages.
>> 
>> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator, 
>> but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the 
>> power.
>> 
>> Ron Young
>> earthRight - Solareagle
>> ___
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>> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Wallace Stahle]

I would look at the generator output voltage with charger in standby. 
Oops no mate = no control. Find a way to power loads directly and monitor gen 
voltage. With true RMS meter.
Check inverter output voltage alone. Then check AC voltage while trying to 
charge. 

I would suggest the AVR (auto voltage regulator) on the generator is drifting 
to a higher voltage, and/or the non power factor corrected charger in the FX is 
having a rather negative effect on the generator output WHILE charging. The 
error light reflects out of spec AC input I surmisre

A few years ago  a three year old VFX2812 began to misbehave on a system with 
Honda EM model gen. After observing high gen voltage, up to 134 v AC the AVR 
was replaced, Some improvement resulted. Not long after, the customer reported 
fried surge protecter plug strips and continuing light flickering beyond the 
usual variations.
I observed rapid voltage changes while charging, strange noise from the 
inverter and unacceptable down stream effects while charging.
I installed a Magnum  MS2812 in its place and all the ill effects were 
resolved. 

I will only consider a PFC charger since then. Budget not the only value to 
consider. Or rather pay now or pay later.
The customer absorbed the fried plug strips and some misc. equipment.  I 
absorbed the new Magnum  cost (and suspect VFX2812) and the lesson on 
interactions between equipment. Some things dont play well with other things.
 
Wallace Stahle
Future Electric Energy Co
PO Box 236
Willits, CA 95490
707-459-0474
Lic.#C10-762093
fut...@pacific.net



> On Aug 12, 2017, at 5:32 PM, Ron Young  wrote:
> 
> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in June. 
> He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues. He has 
> been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I believe this 
> is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is probably also 
> running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t identify the 
> error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to travel due to 
> fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
> 
> Here is his recent email:
> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing an 
> error.
> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you 
> installed it. 
> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to 
> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low rpm, 
> not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a higher 
> rpm.
> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing fine 
> for about 1.5 hours. 
> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter system 
> throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator rpm go up.
> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the 
> inverter re-engages.
> 
> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator, but 
> we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the power.
> 
> Ron Young
> earthRight - Solareagle
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
> 
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Agree Dan if this is troubleshooting an installation done by someone else.
On the other hand, it is our responsibility at the design phase to not
even give the option of not having good Com's and AC bypass switching. The
AC by pass would tell you quite a bit here about if the generator, the
load, or the Inverter/charger was the source.

I have clients who are pretty clueless but I can get on the phone and walk
them thru the data/button pushing for my troubleshooting.

Fires are nasty! We had 5,000 people evacuated for 7 days here 10 days ago
in temperatures near 100F. Quite a few science projects inside those
refrigerators!! I had a fire guy tell me if I leave my land they would not
let me back in. Since this happens every 3 years or so we always stay as
there never is an engine here until the fire goes by.

An E ticket ride watching the air attack!




> For situations like these, unfortunately I've found that it's very handy
> to
> keep a remote each for Outback, Magnum and Conext in the troubleshooting
> tool bag. Without a Mate (preferably a Mate 3) you are driving the highway
> with a tarp over your windshield, and have to navigate by blinky colored
> lights telling you where to exit onto the dirt road.
>
> What blinky light error code is the inverter throwing at him?
>
> I don't understand why clients won't spring for these relatively
> inexpensive, essential remotes, but it's the same with battery SOC
> monitoring coulomb counters up here off the grid. You just spent $10K on
> an
> offgrid power system, and can't afford a remote (I now call them "inverter
> control panels" to clients) or a SOC monitor ("battery control panel")?
> But
> that's how it is, over and over again.
>
> So sorry that you can't get to the site because of the fires, I have been
> through that here in Colorado. I'd suggest tinkering with the inverter
> charger settings and try lowering the load percentage to the generator,
> but
> without a Mate you can't do that.
>
> I sincerely hope that Tump's suggestion is correct and that your client
> has
> auto-idle turned on with the Honda. My only Honda issue has been the 3kW
> "cube" with a magnum inverter, all the 5kW Hondas have been fine with any
> inverter brand.
>
> Best regards;
>
>
> Dan Fink
> Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Tump  wrote:
>
>> Make sure that the client has the AUTO idle  set to OFF!
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2017, at 8:32 PM, Ron Young 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
>> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having
>> issues.
>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
>> believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He
>> is
>> probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so
>> can’t
>> identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable
>> to
>> travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
>>
>> Here is his recent email:
>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and
>> throwing
>> an error.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since
>> you
>> installed it.
>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
>> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
>> rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t
>> hold a
>> higher rpm.
>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
>> fine for about 1.5 hours.
>> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
>> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the
>> generator
>> rpm go up.
>> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
>> inverter re-engages.
>>
>> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed
>> generator,
>> but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house
>> requires the
>> power.
>>
>> Ron Young
>> earthRight - Solareagle
>> ___
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>> Solarwinds 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Dan Fink]

For situations like these, unfortunately I've found that it's very handy to
keep a remote each for Outback, Magnum and Conext in the troubleshooting
tool bag. Without a Mate (preferably a Mate 3) you are driving the highway
with a tarp over your windshield, and have to navigate by blinky colored
lights telling you where to exit onto the dirt road.

What blinky light error code is the inverter throwing at him?

I don't understand why clients won't spring for these relatively
inexpensive, essential remotes, but it's the same with battery SOC
monitoring coulomb counters up here off the grid. You just spent $10K on an
offgrid power system, and can't afford a remote (I now call them "inverter
control panels" to clients) or a SOC monitor ("battery control panel")? But
that's how it is, over and over again.

So sorry that you can't get to the site because of the fires, I have been
through that here in Colorado. I'd suggest tinkering with the inverter
charger settings and try lowering the load percentage to the generator, but
without a Mate you can't do that.

I sincerely hope that Tump's suggestion is correct and that your client has
auto-idle turned on with the Honda. My only Honda issue has been the 3kW
"cube" with a magnum inverter, all the 5kW Hondas have been fine with any
inverter brand.

Best regards;


Dan Fink
Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Tump  wrote:

> Make sure that the client has the AUTO idle  set to OFF!
>
> On Aug 12, 2017, at 8:32 PM, Ron Young  wrote:
>
> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues.
> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
> believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is
> probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t
> identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to
> travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
>
> Here is his recent email:
> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
> an error.
> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
> installed it.
> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
> rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a
> higher rpm.
> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
> fine for about 1.5 hours.
> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
> rpm go up.
> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
> inverter re-engages.
>
> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator,
> but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the
> power.
>
> Ron Young
> earthRight - Solareagle
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Tump]

Make sure that the client has the AUTO idle  set to OFF!
> On Aug 12, 2017, at 8:32 PM, Ron Young  wrote:
> 
> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in June. 
> He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues. He has 
> been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I believe this 
> is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is probably also 
> running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t identify the 
> error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to travel due to 
> fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
> 
> Here is his recent email:
> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing an 
> error.
> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you 
> installed it. 
> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to 
> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low rpm, 
> not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a higher 
> rpm.
> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing fine 
> for about 1.5 hours. 
> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter system 
> throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator rpm go up.
> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the 
> inverter re-engages.
> 
> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator, but 
> we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the power.
> 
> Ron Young
> earthRight - Solareagle
> ___
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>   
>  www.SWNL.net 
> 
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>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
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>
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> 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Ron Young]

Unfortunately this is a bare bones setup, no bypass. The generator is a 
EM5000SX. I know there have been issues in the past with a certain model of 
Honda but not sure about this one. 

Ron

> On Aug 12, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>  wrote:
> 
> If the install has an AC bypass, he should use this to troubleshoot. Ac
> bypass takes the inverter/charger out of the loop. --Dave
> 
>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
>> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having
>> issues. He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot
>> but I believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around
>> it. He is probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a
>> Mate so can’t identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am
>> currently unable to travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC
>> wildfires).
>> 
>> Here is his recent email:
>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
>> an error.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
>> installed it.
>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
>> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
>> rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold
>> a higher rpm.
>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
>> fine for about 1.5 hours.
>> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
>> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
>> rpm go up.
>> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
>> inverter re-engages.
>> 
>> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed
>> generator, but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the
>> house requires the power.
>> 
>> Ron Young
>> earthRight - Solareagle
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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>> 
> 
> 
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

If the install has an AC bypass, he should use this to troubleshoot. Ac
bypass takes the inverter/charger out of the loop. --Dave

> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having
> issues. He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot
> but I believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around
> it. He is probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a
> Mate so can’t identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am
> currently unable to travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC
> wildfires).
>
> Here is his recent email:
> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
> an error.
> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
> installed it.
> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
> rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold
> a higher rpm.
> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
> fine for about 1.5 hours.
> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
> rpm go up.
> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
> inverter re-engages.
>
> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed
> generator, but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the
> house requires the power.
>
> Ron Young
> earthRight - Solareagle
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Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

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[RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question

[Ron Young]

Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in June. 
He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues. He has 
been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I believe this 
is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is probably also 
running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t identify the error. 
He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to travel due to fire 
restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).

Here is his recent email:
-Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing an 
error.
-My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you 
installed it. 
-The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to float, 
the generator goes into a high rpm.
-My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low rpm, 
not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a higher rpm.
-I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing fine 
for about 1.5 hours. 
-Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter system 
throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator rpm go up.
-If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the 
inverter re-engages.

What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator, but 
we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the power.

Ron Young
earthRight - Solareagle
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