Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)

2016-10-17 Thread Drake 

Right. Besides that, batteries  have a shelf
life. A few years down the line, the client will
need to replace the bank. A $10K reinvestment
after a few years could erase any cost
effectiveness of an off grid system. In many
cases they could pay the extra money and hook up to the power line now.

At 11:02 AM 10/15/2016, you wrote:

My design philosophy these days matches yours
100%, Allen. Because of cheap PV, and FLA
batteries still stuck in the 1910s. It was a
different story (not too many years ago!) when a
good deal on PV was $5 a watt...

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:Â
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342

Â

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Allan Sindelar
<al...@sindelarsolar.com> wrote:
Dana (and I'm curious if others agree),
I used to work with 4-5 days of storage, back
with modules were expensive and batteries were
relatively cheap. As in recent years these two
have reversed - modules are cheap and batteries
are dear - my fundamental design approach has
changed. I now design around 2-3 days of storage
with a larger array, as long as there's a backup
generator in the system. I size to at least 100%
of the projected winter average daily load.

The batteries recharge more quickly, including
on partly cloudy days between storms. They spend
more of their time full, thus keeping them
happier and giving them as much or more life,
even with more and deeper cycling. FLAs are
easier to EQ, given the hotter charge rate. And the customer spends less.

You used to live in SW Colorado, a similar sunny
winter climate. Is it the same in Idaho where you live now?
Allan
Â

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)

2016-10-16 Thread Dan Fink 
Dana; I just inherited a client with a Honda EB6500 that was retrofitted
with electric start by the previous owner of the property.
So, it can be done.
It's basically an EM6500 now...without the socket for the remote start
cable plug.
My task - add a Magnum AGS. Will have to wire in our own socket and make a
cable. Wish me luck!

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 4:03 PM, Dana <d...@solarwork.com> wrote:

> Yes Maverick, the Honda is an electric start & someone sold & tried to
> install an aftermarket start kit, several folks have worked on it and all
> to no avail.
>
> *Thanks on *the battery suggestions I was about to call my Full River rep
> on Monday*.*
>
>
>
> __
>
> Dana Orzel
>
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
>
> d...@solarwork.com  - www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.com>
>
> *O* - 970.626.5253*F* - 970.626.4140   c *- *208.721.7003
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988**"  *
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Maverick Brown
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:26 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt
> hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)
>
>
>
> Is that Honda an electric start? If so, what model it it?
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)

2016-10-15 Thread Dana 
Yes Maverick, the Honda is an electric start & someone sold & tried to install 
an aftermarket start kit, several folks have worked on it and all to no avail.
Thanks on the battery suggestions I was about to call my Full River rep on 
Monday.
 
__
Dana Orzel 
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
 <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com  -  <http://www.solarwork.com> 
www.solarwork.biz 
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Maverick Brown
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:26 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours 
FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)
 
Is that Honda an electric start? If so, what model it it?
 
As for batteries, I suggest Concorde AGM PVX-9150HT for 915Ah or Fullriver 
DC1150-2 for 1150Ah. Both are great choices and very rugged.
 
Concorde & FR both may already have them stocked there.
 
 
 
 
On Oct 14, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dana <d...@solarwork.com> wrote:
 
This client is on Kauai, her cloudy  winter storms average 4-5 days. She has a 
generator [Honda] not an auto start, that several folks have tried to integrate 
as auto start with no success. Battery maintenance is a challenge  for her, as 
could be expected with a pile of T-105 style batteries, etc.
I can hear folks saying “well maybe she should not be off grid.”
She does not have another living option & I feel just requires a minor upgrade 
& correction to a poor original install.
I suggested a set of HUP Solar Ones & the freight was huge to the islands.
 
 
 
__
Dana Orzel
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
 <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com  -  <http://www.solarwork.com/> 
www.solarwork.biz
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 
From: RE-wrenches [ <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 3:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA 
VS Iron Edison Batteries)
 
Dana (and I'm curious if others agree),
I used to work with 4-5 days of storage, back with modules were expensive and 
batteries were relatively cheap. As in recent years these two have reversed - 
modules are cheap and batteries are dear - my fundamental design approach has 
changed. I now design around 2-3 days of storage with a larger array, as long 
as there's a backup generator in the system. I size to at least 100% of the 
projected winter average daily load. 

The batteries recharge more quickly, including on partly cloudy days between 
storms. They spend more of their time full, thus keeping them happier and 
giving them as much or more life, even with more and deeper cycling. FLAs are 
easier to EQ, given the hotter charge rate. And the customer spends less.

You used to live in SW Colorado, a similar sunny winter climate. Is it the same 
in Idaho where you live now? 
Allan
 
Allan Sindelar
 <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com> al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell



 
On 10/14/2016 3:36 PM, Dana wrote:
I recommend 4 days backup min & 5 days backup if budget allows of storage and 
Iron Edison were saying that 2 days was sufficient. To clarify - I said 
“magical” as in wondering if there was something special, I-E did not say this.
 
__
Dana Orzel 
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
 <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com  -  <http://www.solarwork.com/> 
www.solarwork.biz
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 
From: RE-wrenches [ <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dan Fink
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 12:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries
 
Tom; I have never seen Iron Edison saying NiFe is "magical" -- do you have a 
specific webpage on their site that says this?
All batteries have advantages and disadvantages, and also myriad technical 
issues for the installer to overcome. 
 


Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Bu

Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)

2016-10-15 Thread Maverick Brown 
Is that Honda an electric start? If so, what model it it?

As for batteries, I suggest Concorde AGM PVX-9150HT for 915Ah or Fullriver 
DC1150-2 for 1150Ah. Both are great choices and very rugged.

Concorde & FR both may already have them stocked there.




> On Oct 14, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dana <d...@solarwork.com> wrote:
> 
> This client is on Kauai, her cloudy  winter storms average 4-5 days. She has 
> a generator [Honda] not an auto start, that several folks have tried to 
> integrate as auto start with no success. Battery maintenance is a challenge  
> for her, as could be expected with a pile of T-105 style batteries, etc.
> I can hear folks saying “well maybe she should not be off grid.”
> She does not have another living option & I feel just requires a minor 
> upgrade & correction to a poor original install.
> I suggested a set of HUP Solar Ones & the freight was huge to the islands.
>  
>  
>  
> __
> Dana Orzel
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
> d...@solarwork.com <mailto:d...@solarwork.com>  - www.solarwork.biz 
> <http://www.solarwork.com/>
> O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Allan 
> Sindelar
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 3:56 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA 
> VS Iron Edison Batteries)
>  
> Dana (and I'm curious if others agree),
> I used to work with 4-5 days of storage, back with modules were expensive and 
> batteries were relatively cheap. As in recent years these two have reversed - 
> modules are cheap and batteries are dear - my fundamental design approach has 
> changed. I now design around 2-3 days of storage with a larger array, as long 
> as there's a backup generator in the system. I size to at least 100% of the 
> projected winter average daily load. 
> 
> The batteries recharge more quickly, including on partly cloudy days between 
> storms. They spend more of their time full, thus keeping them happier and 
> giving them as much or more life, even with more and deeper cycling. FLAs are 
> easier to EQ, given the hotter charge rate. And the customer spends less.
> 
> You used to live in SW Colorado, a similar sunny winter climate. Is it the 
> same in Idaho where you live now? 
> Allan
>  
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
>  
> On 10/14/2016 3:36 PM, Dana wrote:
>> I recommend 4 days backup min & 5 days backup if budget allows of storage 
>> and Iron Edison were saying that 2 days was sufficient. To clarify - I said 
>> “magical” as in wondering if there was something special, I-E did not say 
>> this.
>>  
>> __
>> Dana Orzel 
>> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
>> d...@solarwork.com <mailto:d...@solarwork.com>  - www.solarwork.biz 
>> <http://www.solarwork.com/>
>> O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
>>  
>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Dan Fink
>> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 12:04 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries
>>  
>> Tom; I have never seen Iron Edison saying NiFe is "magical" -- do you have a 
>> specific webpage on their site that says this?
>> All batteries have advantages and disadvantages, and also myriad technical 
>> issues for the installer to overcome. 
>>  
>> 
>> Dan Fink
>> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
>> IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
>> 970.672.4342 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Tom Duffy <t...@solar-biz.com 
>> <mailto:t...@solar-biz.com>> wrote:
>> Hi Dana
>>  
>> Two thoughts… how many days of autonom

Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)

2016-10-15 Thread Dan Fink 
My design philosophy these days matches yours 100%, Allen. Because of cheap
PV, and FLA batteries still stuck in the 1910s. It was a different story
(not too many years ago!) when a good deal on PV was $5 a watt...

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Allan Sindelar 
wrote:

> Dana (and I'm curious if others agree),
> I used to work with 4-5 days of storage, back with modules were expensive
> and batteries were relatively cheap. As in recent years these two have
> reversed - modules are cheap and batteries are dear - my fundamental design
> approach has changed. I now design around 2-3 days of storage with a larger
> array, as long as there's a backup generator in the system. I size to at
> least 100% of the projected winter average daily load.
>
> The batteries recharge more quickly, including on partly cloudy days
> between storms. They spend more of their time full, thus keeping them
> happier and giving them as much or more life, even with more and deeper
> cycling. FLAs are easier to EQ, given the hotter charge rate. And the
> customer spends less.
>
> You used to live in SW Colorado, a similar sunny winter climate. Is it the
> same in Idaho where you live now?
> Allan
>
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell*
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)

2016-10-14 Thread Dana 
This client is on Kauai, her cloudy  winter storms average 4-5 days. She has
a generator [Honda] not an auto start, that several folks have tried to
integrate as auto start with no success. Battery maintenance is a challenge
for her, as could be expected with a pile of T-105 style batteries, etc.
I can hear folks saying "well maybe she should not be off grid."
She does not have another living option & I feel just requires a minor
upgrade & correction to a poor original install.
I suggested a set of HUP Solar Ones & the freight was huge to the islands.
 
 
 
__
Dana Orzel 
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
 <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com  -
<http://www.solarwork.com> www.solarwork.biz 
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Allan Sindelar
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 3:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours
FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)
 
Dana (and I'm curious if others agree),
I used to work with 4-5 days of storage, back with modules were expensive
and batteries were relatively cheap. As in recent years these two have
reversed - modules are cheap and batteries are dear - my fundamental design
approach has changed. I now design around 2-3 days of storage with a larger
array, as long as there's a backup generator in the system. I size to at
least 100% of the projected winter average daily load. 

The batteries recharge more quickly, including on partly cloudy days between
storms. They spend more of their time full, thus keeping them happier and
giving them as much or more life, even with more and deeper cycling. FLAs
are easier to EQ, given the hotter charge rate. And the customer spends
less.

You used to live in SW Colorado, a similar sunny winter climate. Is it the
same in Idaho where you live now? 
Allan
 
Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


 
On 10/14/2016 3:36 PM, Dana wrote:
I recommend 4 days backup min & 5 days backup if budget allows of storage
and Iron Edison were saying that 2 days was sufficient. To clarify - I said
"magical" as in wondering if there was something special, I-E did not say
this.
 
__
Dana Orzel 
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
 <mailto:d...@solarwork.com> d...@solarwork.com  -
<http://www.solarwork.com> www.solarwork.biz 
O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   c - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Dan Fink
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 12:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries
 
Tom; I have never seen Iron Edison saying NiFe is "magical" -- do you have a
specific webpage on their site that says this?
All batteries have advantages and disadvantages, and also myriad technical
issues for the installer to overcome. 
 


Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified InstructorT for: 
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education ProvidersT
  970.672.4342

 
 
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Tom Duffy <t...@solar-biz.com> wrote:
Hi Dana
 
Two thoughts. how many days of autonomy are they quoting?
 
If nickel Iron were this magical how come nobody has noticed them for the
past 100 years?
 
Kind regards
 
Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer
Solar-Biz-new-logo-800X300
E-Mail:  <mailto:t...@solar-biz.com> t...@solar-biz.com
**Please note my new email - You will now be able to find me at:
<mailto:t...@solar-biz.com> t...@solar-biz.com Please update your records so
we don't lose touch!**
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Direct Toll Free: 888-503-6772
International: 575-539-2111 X 122 <tel:575-539-2111%20X%20122> 
SKYPE Address: thesolarbiz (e-mail first)
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Array/battery relationship (WAS Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries)

2016-10-14 Thread Mac Lewis 
Hi Allen,

I use the 2-3 day autonomy design approach as well unless there are unusual
circumstances.  Here in western Colorado this design approach has worked
very well.  I have been met with some resistance with folks that are used
to the large 4-5 battery string designs that were common around here.
Regarding battery longevity, I think the thing that we struggle with is
making sure the batteries stay cool enough in the summer & warm enough in
the winter.  I haven't found an approach that works perfect.

It seems to me like chronic undercharging is a bigger problem than higher
currents introduced by modern array designs.

Thanks

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Allan Sindelar 
wrote:

> Dana (and I'm curious if others agree),
> I used to work with 4-5 days of storage, back with modules were expensive
> and batteries were relatively cheap. As in recent years these two have
> reversed - modules are cheap and batteries are dear - my fundamental design
> approach has changed. I now design around 2-3 days of storage with a larger
> array, as long as there's a backup generator in the system. I size to at
> least 100% of the projected winter average daily load.
>
> The batteries recharge more quickly, including on partly cloudy days
> between storms. They spend more of their time full, thus keeping them
> happier and giving them as much or more life, even with more and deeper
> cycling. FLAs are easier to EQ, given the hotter charge rate. And the
> customer spends less.
>
> You used to live in SW Colorado, a similar sunny winter climate. Is it the
> same in Idaho where you live now?
> Allan
>
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell*
>
>
> On 10/14/2016 3:36 PM, Dana wrote:
>
> I recommend 4 days backup min & 5 days backup if budget allows of storage
> and Iron Edison were saying that 2 days was sufficient. To clarify - I said
> “magical” as in wondering if there was something special, I-E did not say
> this.
>
>
>
> __
>
> Dana Orzel
>
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
>
> d...@solarwork.com  - www.solarwork.biz 
>
> *O* - 970.626.5253*F* - 970.626.4140   c *- *208.721.7003
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988**"  *
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Dan Fink
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 12:04 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison
> Batteries
>
>
>
> Tom; I have never seen Iron Edison saying NiFe is "magical" -- do you have
> a specific webpage on their site that says this?
>
> All batteries have advantages and disadvantages, and also myriad technical
> issues for the installer to overcome.
>
>
>
>
> Dan Fink
>
> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
>
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
>
> ~ PV Installation Professional
>
> ~ Small Wind Installer
>
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Tom Duffy  wrote:
>
> Hi Dana
>
>
>
> Two thoughts… how many days of autonomy are they quoting?
>
>
>
> If nickel Iron were this magical how come nobody has noticed them for the
> past 100 years?
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> *Tom Duffy*
>
> *Senior Solar Design Engineer*
>
> [image: Solar-Biz-new-logo-800X300]
>
> *E-Mail: **t...@solar-biz.com *
>
> ***Please note my new email – You will now be able to find me at: 
> **t...@solar-biz.com
>  Please update your records so we don’t lose touch!***
>
> *Main Number: **888-826-0939 <888-826-0939>*
>
> *Panama Office: **507-836-5588 X 122 <507-836-5588%20X%20122>*
>
> *Direct Toll Free:* *888-503-6772 <888-503-6772>*
>
> *International: **575-539-2111 X 122 <575-539-2111%20X%20122>*
>
> *SKYPE Address: **thesolarbiz (e-mail first)*
>
>
>
> NOTICE: *Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas,
> and oil...plus the current state of the economythe light at the
> end of the tunnel, has been turned off… It should have been solar.*
>
>  *Confidentiality Notice*: This message including any attachments is for
> the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender and delete any copies of this message.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dana
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM