Re: [Readable-discuss] spinoff wisp srfi
Am Montag, 9. Juni 2014, 06:34:16 schrieb Alan Manuel Gloria: Hmm? A name in the acknowledgements section maybe? As Alan Manuel K. Gloria. It’s in. Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck#174; Code Sight#153; - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Readable-discuss mailing list Readable-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/readable-discuss
Re: [Readable-discuss] spinoff wisp srfi
Hi Alan, Am Montag, 9. Juni 2014, 06:51:44 schrieb Alan Manuel Gloria: The specifications do not indicate what the supported elements are. What happens if I input the C string (define foo\n bar)\n? (or in short, is parentheses supported?) Within parentheses whitespace parsing is disabled, so you can just throw in any lisp code without changing its behavior. I just saw that I only said this in the clarifications. It’s fixed now. Thanks! You reference SRFI-105, but only as an indirect reference from SRFI-110. I'd assume you want each token in your syntax to actually be neoteric but it's not spelled out. Or is each token just a Lisp atom? How about vector literals? If I understand your question correctly, generally each token is simply a Lisp atom. It can be used as neoteric if you activate SRFI-105 (so you can use suffix-parens to make it a function-call). Best wishes, Arne On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 1:50 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Hi Alan, Am Sonntag, 1. Juni 2014, 08:35:58 schrieb Alan Manuel Gloria: It might be better to extend your clarification section a little. I think your intent here is that : at the beginning of a line adds an extra open parentheses that gets closed at end-of-line (rule 4.2.7) *and* defines an indentation level. Thank you for spotting that - and thanks for checking the SRFI! Thank to your commetn, I also found another point where I wasn’t spelling the intent exactly enough: it defines an indentation level *at the position of the colon*. I now added your note to the clarifications. How should I reference you? Best wishes, Arne On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 4:31 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Hi, I worked quite a bit on my simplified readable-spinoff wisp, and since it now works pretty well, I drafted a SRFI. It is still quite rough, but the basics should be in. In the rationale I contrast it to readable, and it would be nice if you could check whether I’m fair towards readable in that. Also despite the different focus we chose, I consider you folks to be the experts on indentation-sensitive lisp, so I would be very happy to get your opinion. http://draketo.de/proj/wisp/srfi.html Best wishes, Arne -- A man in the streets faces a knife. Two policemen are there it once. They raise a sign: “Illegal Scene! Noone may watch this!” The man gets robbed and stabbed and bleeds to death. The police had to hold the sign. …Welcome to Europe, citizen. Censorship is beautiful. ( http://draketo.de/stichwort/censorship ) -- Is your legacy SCM system holding you back? Join Perforce May 7 to find out: #149; 3 signs your SCM is hindering your productivity #149; Requirements for releasing software faster #149; Expert tips and advice for migrating your SCM now http://p.sf.net/sfu/perforce ___ Readable-discuss mailing list Readable-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/readable-discuss -- singing a part of the history of free software: - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de -- Ich hab' nichts zu verbergen – hab ich gedacht: - http://draketo.de/licht/lieder/ich-hab-nichts-zu-verbergen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck#174; Code Sight#153; - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Readable-discuss mailing list Readable-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/readable-discuss
Re: [Readable-discuss] spinoff wisp srfi
Hi David, Am Sonntag, 8. Juni 2014, 18:05:53 schrieb David A. Wheeler: A few comments, though, besides ones already made. I have concerns that lone : is actually *widely* used for other purposes, e.g., type declarations, that this syntax interferes with. Similarly, _ has many uses on its own. I think it'd be wise to grab a bunch of code and try to reformat it this way. I did that a *LOT* to create SRFI-110; a lot of syntax that SEEMS like a good idea doesn't actually work well with real code. For _ this should not be too bad: It only has a special meaning in wisp when used as the very first character in a line (then the underscore and consecutive underscores are treated as whitespace). For : I am not perfectly sure. I know that typed racket uses it for type-declarations¹, so this is a regression. On the other hand this only hurts for top-level defines, where it is seldomly needed. I added some details under http://draketo.de/proj/wisp/srfi.html#sec-3-2 (disadvantages of wisp). ¹: http://docs.racket-lang.org/ts-guide/more.html?q=typed#%28part._.Type_.Annotation_and_.Binding_.Forms%29 Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck#174; Code Sight#153; - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Readable-discuss mailing list Readable-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/readable-discuss
Re: [Readable-discuss] spinoff wisp srfi
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:50:45 +0200, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Also despite the different focus we chose, I consider you folks to be the experts on indentation-sensitive lisp, so I would be very happy to get your opinion. http://draketo.de/proj/wisp/srfi.html I didn't have a lot of time, but I took a few minutes hope my comments help. I don't think that wisp supercedes SRFI-105 or SRFI-110; I would instead say it describes an alternative to. Indeed, I suspect a system could simultaneously use SRFI-105 and wisp. SRFI-110 improves a lot over the implementation of SRFI-49 and resolves the group-naming by introducing 3 different grouping-syntaxes ($, \\ and * *). These additional syntax-elements however hurt readability for newcomers a lot. They make some code written in SRFI-110 look quite similar to perl and bash: I don't agree that they hurt readability at all, indeed, I think they help. I suggest changing this (and elsewhere) to something like The author believes that these additional syntax elements impede readability because Also, I know both perl and bash, and the resulting code doesn't look anything like either. The $ stuff looks like Haskell, if anything. The spec overview in 4.1 needs to clearly define *what* each syntax element does, at least as a basic case. Examples are great for clarifying definitions, but do not *replace* them. E.G., A lone period at the beginning of a line (after any indentation) causes that line to continue the previous line. Or something like that. s/synatx/syntax/ I would move justification to separate section. Users often don't care WHY something is so... they just need to know what it is. I obviously agree that a better homoiconic syntax is needed for Lisp. I also obviously don't agree that the choices you've made are the best ones, since I made different choices :-). A few comments, though, besides ones already made. I have concerns that lone : is actually *widely* used for other purposes, e.g., type declarations, that this syntax interferes with. Similarly, _ has many uses on its own. I think it'd be wise to grab a bunch of code and try to reformat it this way. I did that a *LOT* to create SRFI-110; a lot of syntax that SEEMS like a good idea doesn't actually work well with real code. And while simplicity is a *great* goal, too simple is its own problem. All we *really* need is 1 and 0; anything else is extraneous syntax :-). --- David A. Wheeler -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech ___ Readable-discuss mailing list Readable-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/readable-discuss
Re: [Readable-discuss] spinoff wisp srfi
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 1:50 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Hi Alan, Am Sonntag, 1. Juni 2014, 08:35:58 schrieb Alan Manuel Gloria: It might be better to extend your clarification section a little. I think your intent here is that : at the beginning of a line adds an extra open parentheses that gets closed at end-of-line (rule 4.2.7) *and* defines an indentation level. Thank you for spotting that - and thanks for checking the SRFI! Thank to your commetn, I also found another point where I wasn’t spelling the intent exactly enough: it defines an indentation level *at the position of the colon*. I now added your note to the clarifications. How should I reference you? Hmm? A name in the acknowledgements section maybe? As Alan Manuel K. Gloria. Sincerely, AmkG -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech ___ Readable-discuss mailing list Readable-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/readable-discuss
Re: [Readable-discuss] spinoff wisp srfi
The specifications do not indicate what the supported elements are. What happens if I input the C string (define foo\n bar)\n? (or in short, is parentheses supported?) You reference SRFI-105, but only as an indirect reference from SRFI-110. I'd assume you want each token in your syntax to actually be neoteric but it's not spelled out. Or is each token just a Lisp atom? How about vector literals? On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 1:50 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Hi Alan, Am Sonntag, 1. Juni 2014, 08:35:58 schrieb Alan Manuel Gloria: It might be better to extend your clarification section a little. I think your intent here is that : at the beginning of a line adds an extra open parentheses that gets closed at end-of-line (rule 4.2.7) *and* defines an indentation level. Thank you for spotting that - and thanks for checking the SRFI! Thank to your commetn, I also found another point where I wasn’t spelling the intent exactly enough: it defines an indentation level *at the position of the colon*. I now added your note to the clarifications. How should I reference you? Best wishes, Arne On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 4:31 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Hi, I worked quite a bit on my simplified readable-spinoff wisp, and since it now works pretty well, I drafted a SRFI. It is still quite rough, but the basics should be in. In the rationale I contrast it to readable, and it would be nice if you could check whether I’m fair towards readable in that. Also despite the different focus we chose, I consider you folks to be the experts on indentation-sensitive lisp, so I would be very happy to get your opinion. http://draketo.de/proj/wisp/srfi.html Best wishes, Arne -- A man in the streets faces a knife. Two policemen are there it once. They raise a sign: “Illegal Scene! Noone may watch this!” The man gets robbed and stabbed and bleeds to death. The police had to hold the sign. …Welcome to Europe, citizen. Censorship is beautiful. ( http://draketo.de/stichwort/censorship ) -- Is your legacy SCM system holding you back? Join Perforce May 7 to find out: #149; 3 signs your SCM is hindering your productivity #149; Requirements for releasing software faster #149; Expert tips and advice for migrating your SCM now http://p.sf.net/sfu/perforce ___ Readable-discuss mailing list Readable-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/readable-discuss -- singing a part of the history of free software: - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech ___ Readable-discuss mailing list Readable-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/readable-discuss
