Re: print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
On 11/2/23 17:39, Albert Astals Cid wrote: It's true that print-manager is mainly a plasmoid/kded/kcm so if Plasma folks want to adopt it, I'm not against it, please propose a MR like https://invent.kde.org/sysadmin/release-tools/-/merge_requests/39/diffs (but in reverse) Done, see https://invent.kde.org/sysadmin/release-tools/-/merge_requests/41. Having such software follow the Plasma release schedule prevents the problem of unsynchronized changes due to differing release schedules, which bit us multiple times during the Plasma 5 cycle. That's not a good reason, Plasma developers need to remember that there's third party applications out there that may also want to tightly integrate with Plasma, so any breaking change that may affect print-manager or whatever other non-shipped-by-Plasma software should not be happening. For the record, the problem was not breaking changes; we always avoided intentionally making breaking changes due to the existence of 3rd-party widgets and KCMs etc. Rather the issue was unsynchronized UI changes; for example Plasma would introduce a new UI feature or convention and then everything on the Plasma release schedule would opt into it in time for the next release, but software like print-manager not on the Plasma release schedule couldn't sync up until their next release, causing random things to use the old style for a few weeks or months. Not the end of the world of course, but not the kind of seamless UX we were aiming for. Nate
Re: print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
El dimecres, 1 de novembre de 2023, a les 1:10:55 (CET), Nate Graham va escriure: > On 10/31/23 17:28, Nicolas Fella wrote: > > On 10/31/23 23:23, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > >> El dimarts, 31 d’octubre de 2023, a les 20:43:47 (CET), Jonathan > >> Riddell va > >> > >> escriure: > >>> As discuccsed in Plasma meeting and just now with KDE gear release > >>> spods, > >>> Plasma would like to take over releases of print-manager and > >>> wacomtablet. > >>> This means renumbering the tars from e.g. 23.08 to 5.80.0. > >>> > >>> Any issues? > >> > >> What's the rationale for such move? > > > > See https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/release-team/2023-June/013081.html > > where I originally brought up the topic > > > > partly it's not relevant any more since we settled on releasing Plasma > > and Gear together this time. The point about these being effectively > > tied to Plasma still stands, and as such releasing them together makes > > sense, for example because it makes it easier to deal with changes in > > their interaction with Plasma > > Yes, the idea is to move into Plasma the things that really only make > sense to use *in* Plasma. It's true that print-manager is mainly a plasmoid/kded/kcm so if Plasma folks want to adopt it, I'm not against it, please propose a MR like https://invent.kde.org/sysadmin/release-tools/-/merge_requests/39/diffs (but in reverse) > Having such software follow the Plasma release > schedule prevents the problem of unsynchronized changes due to differing > release schedules, which bit us multiple times during the Plasma 5 cycle. That's not a good reason, Plasma developers need to remember that there's third party applications out there that may also want to tightly integrate with Plasma, so any breaking change that may affect print-manager or whatever other non-shipped-by-Plasma software should not be happening. Cheers, Albert > > Nate
Re: print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
On 1/11/23 19:19, Ben Cooksley wrote: On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 8:44 AM Jonathan Riddell wrote: As discuccsed in Plasma meeting and just now with KDE gear release spods, Plasma would like to take over releases of print-manager and wacomtablet. This means renumbering the tars from e.g. 23.08 to 5.80.0. Isn't this going to cause distributions all sorts of pain as package managers are going to assume 23.08 > 5.80 and refuse to update? Fedora has an epoch variable to cater for situations like this. I imagine most other distributions have something similar. The 23.08 would be upgraded to 1:5.80.x. Any issues? Jonathan Cheers, Ben
Re: print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 8:44 AM Jonathan Riddell wrote: > As discuccsed in Plasma meeting and just now with KDE gear release spods, > Plasma would like to take over releases of print-manager and wacomtablet. > This means renumbering the tars from e.g. 23.08 to 5.80.0. > Isn't this going to cause distributions all sorts of pain as package managers are going to assume 23.08 > 5.80 and refuse to update? > > Any issues? > > Jonathan > > Cheers, Ben
Re: print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
On 10/31/23 17:28, Nicolas Fella wrote: On 10/31/23 23:23, Albert Astals Cid wrote: El dimarts, 31 d’octubre de 2023, a les 20:43:47 (CET), Jonathan Riddell va escriure: As discuccsed in Plasma meeting and just now with KDE gear release spods, Plasma would like to take over releases of print-manager and wacomtablet. This means renumbering the tars from e.g. 23.08 to 5.80.0. Any issues? What's the rationale for such move? See https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/release-team/2023-June/013081.html where I originally brought up the topic partly it's not relevant any more since we settled on releasing Plasma and Gear together this time. The point about these being effectively tied to Plasma still stands, and as such releasing them together makes sense, for example because it makes it easier to deal with changes in their interaction with Plasma Yes, the idea is to move into Plasma the things that really only make sense to use *in* Plasma. Having such software follow the Plasma release schedule prevents the problem of unsynchronized changes due to differing release schedules, which bit us multiple times during the Plasma 5 cycle. Nate
Re: print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
On 11/1/23 00:28, Nicolas Fella wrote: On 10/31/23 23:23, Albert Astals Cid wrote: El dimarts, 31 d’octubre de 2023, a les 20:43:47 (CET), Jonathan Riddell va escriure: As discuccsed in Plasma meeting and just now with KDE gear release spods, Plasma would like to take over releases of print-manager and wacomtablet. This means renumbering the tars from e.g. 23.08 to 5.80.0. Any issues? What's the rationale for such move? See https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/release-team/2023-June/013081.html where I originally brought up the topic partly it's not relevant any more since we settled on releasing Plasma and Gear together this time. The point about these being effectively tied to Plasma still stands, and as such releasing them together makes sense, for example because it makes it easier to deal with changes in their interaction with Plasma Also, wacomtablet isn't actually part of Gear, it's independently released and there hasn't been a release in a while. By moving it to Plasma we would make sure it does get regular releases
Re: print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
On 10/31/23 23:23, Albert Astals Cid wrote: El dimarts, 31 d’octubre de 2023, a les 20:43:47 (CET), Jonathan Riddell va escriure: As discuccsed in Plasma meeting and just now with KDE gear release spods, Plasma would like to take over releases of print-manager and wacomtablet. This means renumbering the tars from e.g. 23.08 to 5.80.0. Any issues? What's the rationale for such move? See https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/release-team/2023-June/013081.html where I originally brought up the topic partly it's not relevant any more since we settled on releasing Plasma and Gear together this time. The point about these being effectively tied to Plasma still stands, and as such releasing them together makes sense, for example because it makes it easier to deal with changes in their interaction with Plasma
Re: print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
El dimarts, 31 d’octubre de 2023, a les 20:43:47 (CET), Jonathan Riddell va escriure: > As discuccsed in Plasma meeting and just now with KDE gear release spods, > Plasma would like to take over releases of print-manager and wacomtablet. > This means renumbering the tars from e.g. 23.08 to 5.80.0. > > Any issues? What's the rationale for such move? Cheers, Albert > > Jonathan
print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
As discuccsed in Plasma meeting and just now with KDE gear release spods, Plasma would like to take over releases of print-manager and wacomtablet. This means renumbering the tars from e.g. 23.08 to 5.80.0. Any issues? Jonathan
Re: Moving print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
Hi, I can’t speak for wacomtablet but I support the idea of moving print-manager to Plasma. It always struck me as odd that it’s not part of Plasma. Realistically there’s plenty of CUPS-based printer UIs, so I don’t see why anyone would ours, which is pretty tightly integrated, outside of Plasma. Cheers Kai Uwe
Re: Moving print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
I've been having similar thoughts about the situation recently and support the idea. Nate On 6/24/23 14:31, Nicolas Fella wrote: Hi, print-manager and wacomtablet are in a somewhat odd place currently. They provide integration of (printers|tablets) into Plasma via KCMs, kded modules, plasmoids etc, to the point where they are not that useful outside of Plasma (technically they should mostly work outside of Plasma, but it doesn't make a lot of sense UX-wise). Despite their close alignment with Plasma they are not developed and released as part of Plasma though. print-manager is part of Gear while wacomtablet is independently releases (and hasn't had a release since 2019!). While being slightly awkward this was mostly not an issue in the past, but now with Plasma 6 on the horizon we have a challenge. To be useful with Plasma 6 they need to be ported accordingly, and a ported version needs to be released together with Plasma 6. Both projects build against Qt6 already, but porting the applet requires larger changes that are incompatible with Qt5/Plasma 5. Given the close tie of both projects to Plasma I propose that we start releasing them as part of Plasma beginning with Plasma 6.0 (and drop print-manager from Gear at an appropriate time). Thoughts? Cheers Nico
Moving print-manager and wacomtablet to Plasma
Hi, print-manager and wacomtablet are in a somewhat odd place currently. They provide integration of (printers|tablets) into Plasma via KCMs, kded modules, plasmoids etc, to the point where they are not that useful outside of Plasma (technically they should mostly work outside of Plasma, but it doesn't make a lot of sense UX-wise). Despite their close alignment with Plasma they are not developed and released as part of Plasma though. print-manager is part of Gear while wacomtablet is independently releases (and hasn't had a release since 2019!). While being slightly awkward this was mostly not an issue in the past, but now with Plasma 6 on the horizon we have a challenge. To be useful with Plasma 6 they need to be ported accordingly, and a ported version needs to be released together with Plasma 6. Both projects build against Qt6 already, but porting the applet requires larger changes that are incompatible with Qt5/Plasma 5. Given the close tie of both projects to Plasma I propose that we start releasing them as part of Plasma beginning with Plasma 6.0 (and drop print-manager from Gear at an appropriate time). Thoughts? Cheers Nico
