Re: Businesses don't really want to be free

2015-04-08 Thread Levinson, Sanford V
The so what is that accommodating the occasional sincere discriminator (whatever exactly that means) by virtue of a law that could conceivably be cited by every business places great pressures on the latter. One if the reasons I am so sorry that Doug Laycock lost (or, more accurately, had his v

Re: Louisiana Update: Gov. Jindal Will Support "Marriage & Conscience Act" (specific exemption, not a RFRA)

2015-04-08 Thread James Oleske
Thanks much, Doug. I'm definitely not an expert on state treatment of local government law, and certainly not on the specific issue of whether Louisiana law typically treats "state" actors as including municipal actors for statutory purposes. If it doesn't, the results would indeed be strange -- bu

Re: Businesses don't really want to be free

2015-04-08 Thread Arthur Spitzer
I don't doubt that this may be true for many businesses. So what? A person might suggest that it is evidence of the religious sincerity of the lonely business-owner who does not want to be left without discretion. Art Spitzer *Warning* *: this message is subject to monitoring by the NSA.* On

Re: Businesses don't really want to be free

2015-04-08 Thread Paul Finkelman
Sandy's point held true for race discrimination.  Many businesses easily integrated when they were told they had to do so, and without much fuss.  Many probably were happy to have more business and to no longer have to be bothered by segregation rules (which made things expensive).    Equality,

Businesses don't really want to be free

2015-04-08 Thread Levinson, Sanford V
Barney Frank was in Austin this evening talking about his new book. Not surprisingly, Indiana and Arkansas came up. Not only did he emphasize the crucial role played by business in pushing back against religious conservatives, but he also made the very shrewd point that businesses often actuall

Re: Louisiana Update: Gov. Jindal Will Support "Marriage & Conscience Act" (specific exemption, not a RFRA)

2015-04-08 Thread Douglas Laycock
A reporter told me that the sponsor was insisting that the bill has nothing to do with suits by private citizens. Only actions by government. Louisiana has no sexual orientation nondiscrimination law, but the reporter said the New Orleans and Shreveport do. The bill says nothing about local go

Re: Louisiana Update: Gov. Jindal Will Support "Marriage & Conscience Act" (specific exemption, not a RFRA)

2015-04-08 Thread James Oleske
Apologies to my fellow list members -- I dashed off the message below quickly before heading to class without a sufficiently close read of the statutory language. The "benefits" clause of the"adverse action" provision in the Louisiana bill is limited to penalties for actions taken or not taken with

Re: Louisiana Update: Gov. Jindal Will Support "Marriage & Conscience Act" (specific exemption, not a RFRA)

2015-04-08 Thread James Oleske
In a radio interview moments ago, the sponsor of the Louisiana bill stated that the bill "doesn't have anything to do with the provision of goods and services" and "doesn't have any application at all to private business transactions." This is contrary to how the Catholic Bishops have described the

Re: Colorado bakery case - No violation of non-discimination laws for refusal to bake cake with anti-gay message

2015-04-08 Thread Steven Jamar
If the state requires you to bake a cake, bake two. Matthew 5:41 It is verses like this that make it hard for me to credit the complicity with evil argument underlying all of these religious objections. But I know the first amendment does not protect actual Christianity because there is no suc

Re: Colorado bakery case - No violation of non-discimination laws for refusal to bake cake with anti-gay message

2015-04-08 Thread Will Esser
Sandy, Thanks for your thoughts.  Out of curiosity, what would your proposed  protection look like in this case?  Stated another way, would it be: (a) A judicially created exception under the Free Speech clause? or (b) A legislative exemption built into non-discrimination laws (e.g. "No provider

RE: Colorado bakery case - No violation of non-discimination laws for refusal to bake cake with anti-gay message

2015-04-08 Thread Levinson, Sanford V
Most of us no long bother to differentiate “freedom of speech” from “freedom of expression,” but I think this is an excellent occasion to do so. I inclined to believe that customers should not have the right to force bakers to engage in what ordinary language would define as “speech” that offen

Colorado bakery case - No violation of non-discimination laws for refusal to bake cake with anti-gay message

2015-04-08 Thread Will Esser
There was a reported story yesterday which begins: "The Colorado Civil Rights Division has ruled that a baker who refused to make cakes with anti-gay messages did not discriminate."   https://www.yahoo.com/politics/azucar-bakery-did-not-discriminate-by-refusing-to-115703680320.html It goes on