Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Wayne
Sorry, I don't have an Andrews catalog other than what can be found online. That is a bit of information that is not often mentioned, the insertion loss for various connectors, etc... Wayne WA2YNE On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:31:08 -0500, Ralph Messer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wayne If

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Wayne
For the record, the Andrews web site seems to still be down. Means all info I fiond is from other web sites, vendors, etc... Also, it seems that Andrews has discontinued a couple of types of Heliax, including what I have. One person came up with them only making it with aluminum outer

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread neal Newman
you wont notice the loss... My club just Put up a New antenna and New 7/8 hardline. the hardline was about 200 feet. the Tower Guy dropped a knife. 1 in a million shot and cut the hardline at the base of the Tower. I spliced the cable using 2- 7/8 EIA flanged Connectors because that what I

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Wayne
Okay, at this point, I have the following: 100 feet of LD5-50A 1 Female 'N' connector for same 3 male 'N' connectors for same, plus an additional male 'N' from another source. All for the LDF5050A cable At antenna, a 3 or 4 foot 1/2 Heliax jumper, as the connectors for the 7/8 Heliax

[Repeater-Builder] Mitrek Consolette conversion

2008-04-22 Thread David
Okay, so I have a couple extra motorola Mitrek base consolette bases in the shed, dying to be used. So I was board, checking stuff out, and I cant seem to figure out if there would be anything that would tell me if I could place a newer, Maratrac in this Mitrek base. Reminder this is the old

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Carrier Control Timer

2008-04-22 Thread Ron Wright
Fred, Are you looking for a circuit that will reset the controller if PTT is active for more than a continuous 10 minutes?? If so I have one I designed about 10 years ago. It is used to reset the controller from a continuous 10 or so minute PTT. It removes the power from the controller for

[Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Terry
Somewhere around 8-9 p.m. December 15, The club I belong to (Mountain ARC)lost our tower at 2976ft. The area of the site received a blast of freezing rain, followed by several bursts of very high wind. This created the dreaded twisting effect that has brought so many others before it as well. We

Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dayton check list -2008 Time for the Annual reminder

2008-04-22 Thread Ron Wright
Every body stinks and no one notices...that is the real Hams do. It is the equipment I like to smell. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/04/21 Mon PM 05:39:31 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dayton check list -2008 Time for

Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Ron Wright
Larry, I thought the same thing except I would go for more 240 V...a good old TV transformer with about 800V would do. Also if you stand inside the building looking for smoke it would lead to the user of the feedline. Bet they would not do it again. Another approach is a high voltage, not

Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Larry Wagoner
At 06:22 AM 4/22/2008, you wrote: Larry, I thought the same thing except I would go for more 240 V...a good old TV transformer with about 800V would do. Also if you stand inside the building looking for smoke it would lead to the user of the feedline. Bet they would not do it again. This was

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur repeater ID's

2008-04-22 Thread Ron Wright
Bruce, The problem here is IDing with out use of the repeater. One can make broadcast for certain items such as weather info and some general interest announcements. The time thing is broadcasting and I bet deemed illegal technically by FCC rules. However, giving info along with the ID is

Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread neal Newman
On a quick Note Ron If the repeater was for emergency services( Police,fire,ems or during a storm) ,and was a Must Get on the air at any cost that would save lives. I would allow that stupid splice Until I was able to get the correct connectors to make the Correct splice. and that would

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Bob M.
It's already a big problem with AM broadcast stations losing their ground system. Buried uninsulated copper wire. Find one exposed piece and start pulling it up. I wonder if amateur equipment insurance covers such vandalism? Bob M. == --- Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somewhere around 8-9

Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Ron Wright
Neal, Your point is a good one. We don't know the whole story and many of our comments are for fun. There may be a real good reason why this was done. I am sure the owner is dealing with it. It might have been done by the tower owner and one might be there free at his blessing. One could

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Barry C'
Personally I wonder how much exception the local Magistrate would take if the thief happened to start leaking a little being mistaken for some kinda bird n all :) To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:02:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]

RE: [Repeater-Builder] spectra radio dead from ebay

2008-04-22 Thread n9wys
YES... Radio will not power up without it (ignition sense wire). Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of mikewm9v spectra radio dead from ebay want to fix this radio no display need schematics need to know if radio will power up

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna Question

2008-04-22 Thread Paul Finch
Hello, Like he said, it depends on several things. You have to consider the Antennas, power, frequency, split and quality of receiver and transmitter. On the receiver you have to look at selectivity and on the transmitter you have to look at transmit noise. I have 80 feet between my two

RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RE: Hijack (WAS: Bad adapter) OFF TOPIC

2008-04-22 Thread n9wys
You are correct Larry, the act itself *IS* criminal. But in order to be able to successfully prosecute the perpetrator, one needs to be able to show: 1) WHO did it, and 2) that there was INTENT. Without those two, no individual will ever be prosecuted. Tell ya what - you take the photo

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Paul Finch
Easy to explain, Lead Poisoning. _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry C' Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:13 AM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft Personally I wonder how much

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Yahoo burp?

2008-04-22 Thread Bruce Bagwell
It's been awhile since anyone has heard from me, still shaking off the cinders from all the Flames sent my way! While those who Flamed are right, it was a stupid answer, I have noticed that many (Most) times never get the original message of the thread. The 2 week old post proves it! There

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Carrier Control Timer (use the COR-2 circuit)

2008-04-22 Thread no6b
At 4/21/2008 22:10, you wrote: The 555 will do the job just fine... you need only configure it properly, which for me ended up being the same circuit Hamtronics used in their early COR-2 Board. Simply copy that circuit less the hang timer portion and you're set. I wish I could claim credit for

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur repeater ID's

2008-04-22 Thread DCFluX
What about begining the ID with The following is a QST? On 4/22/08, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bruce, The problem here is IDing with out use of the repeater. One can make broadcast for certain items such as weather info and some general interest announcements. The time thing

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread DCFluX
Most bullets these days are made of copper. On 4/22/08, Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Easy to explain, Lead Poisoning. -- *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Barry C' *Sent:* Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:13 AM

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread no6b
At 4/23/2008 00:45, you wrote: Okay, at this point, I have the following: 100 feet of LD5-50A 1 Female 'N' connector for same 3 male 'N' connectors for same, plus an additional male 'N' from another source. All for the LDF5050A cable At antenna, a 3 or 4 foot 1/2 Heliax jumper, as

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Alexandre Souza
p.s: I've run across several other technology-groups who like to post 'Wall of Shame' pix - got a few myself. Any interest out there? I have that on my site: http://www.tabajara-labs.com.br/eletronica/gambiarras/ Send me the photos and I'll put there :o)

Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread neal Newman
YEP... BTW RON I have an Older 1000 controller . that is acting Funny. If I send it to ya can you check it out maybe it needs to be updated.. Funny meaning No mater what I try It wont ID on inital keyup.. and looses Memory I have to reporogram it... Let me know... Yep I agree with

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Paul Finch
They have already stolen coax off working systems. Paul _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:17 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft Somewhere

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Paul Finch
I think they have a copper jacket over lead. Paul _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DCFluX Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:32 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft Most bullets

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Yahoo burp?

2008-04-22 Thread George Henry
-Original Message- From: Bruce Bagwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Apr 22, 2008 10:08 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Yahoo burp? [snip] Just brushing off the cinders! Sorry about the dumb post. Maybe that is a result of Spam Filters,

Re: Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Ron Wright
Neal, Sure send me the control and I'll take a look. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: neal Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/04/22 Tue AM 10:53:07 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter YEP... BTW RON I have an Older 1000

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Dayton That Pleasant Flea Market Smell

2008-04-22 Thread skipp025
Re: Dayton That Pleasant Flea Market Smell Oh we notice all right... people wise it can get pretty bad. And the equipment odor is not exempt... nothing like the smell from a vintage tube rig taken from a heavy smokers shack. There's also the tactile feel of nicotine goo... cheers, s.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Carrier Control Timer (use the COR-2 circuit)

2008-04-22 Thread skipp025
Re: Carrier Control Timer (use the COR-2 circuit) The 555 timer is a lot like the 723 (voltage reg) chip in regards to a very large variety of available circuit options and layouts that simply must obey certain rules detailed in the Mfgrs data sheets. Onward... The 555 is one of the most

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dayton That Pleasant Flea Market Smell

2008-04-22 Thread George Henry
Don't forget the old military stuff with the strong vinegar-like smell of the anti-corrosive treatment, whatever it was (probably toxic/carcinogenic...) I used to have an old (WW-II) BC-639 aircraft direction finding receiver, complete with power supply, control head, headset, handset, manuals

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Jim Brown
Mine was on the air - but not active at the time the ax was applied to the hard line. You are my coordinator, but I never did let you know it was down - sorry. But back up now, with a new connector and jumper. 73 - Jim W5ZIT (N5SN) 443.9 Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread George Henry
-Original Message- From: DCFluX [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Apr 22, 2008 10:31 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft Most bullets these days are made of copper. Perfect! He wants copper, we'll give him copper.. although

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Wayne
Use of the antenna could be considered theft of services IMO. Theft of services covers a number of things. Not sure what the 240 volts would do, maybe burn out loops in the duplexers being used, if it managed that before kicking the circuit breaker. Possible melt some of that teeny coax

[Repeater-Builder] 555 Circuits

2008-04-22 Thread Jim Brown
Back in the '60s when we were still using mechanical teleprinters, I operated RTTY on the same bands a notable local DXer operated. He was really upset if any clicks and pops were present to upset his DX band. Using a polar relay to key the AFSK oscillator frequency really screwed up the

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dayton That Pleasant Flea Market Smell

2008-04-22 Thread Jim Brown
Alodyne (or was it alodine) was what we used to passivate aluminum for the military. Circuit boards used MFP (moisture and fungus proofing) which was some kind of varnish or lacquer. 73 - Jim W5ZIT George Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget the old

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread ka9qjg
I Don't think this Copper Thieves are actually Targeting Repeater Sites Etc , Some Sites are off the beaten path and in Place not readily seen by some , It is just bad People trying to make some money for whatever . Example, Here in N/W Indiana home Construction sites get hit all the

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna Question

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Morris WA6ILQ
At 07:00 PM 04/21/08, you wrote: We are looking at setting up a basic (I know there is no such thing) repeater. What I need to know, if you do not have a duplexer to run your antenna through, but have two antennas, with one on the TX and one on the RX how far apart do they have to be to be able

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Morris WA6ILQ
At 03:35 AM 04/22/08, you wrote: p.s: I've run across several other technology-groups who like to post 'Wall of Shame' pix - got a few myself. Any interest out there? I have that on my site: http://www.tabajara-labs.com.br/eletronica/gambiarras/ Send me the photos and I'll

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 555 Circuits

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Morris WA6ILQ
I also ran RTTY and had a DXer a few houses away (actually about 750-900 feet...), only mine was 2m FM and he was 2m SSB. My audio oscillator was a one-transistor oscillator with an 88mh toroid in the collector, and a feedback coil I added that fed back to the base. A second added winding was

[Repeater-Builder] Re: More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread skipp025
I Don't think this Copper Thieves are actually Targeting Repeater Sites Etc , Some Sites are off the beaten path and in Place not readily seen by some , It is just bad People trying to make some money for whatever Most of the time it's meth... Out here on the West/left Coast we're

[Repeater-Builder] WTB: Doug Hall RBI-1 for 7330 controller

2008-04-22 Thread no6b
A friend of mine has a Kenwood TM-331 that he would like to interface to his 7330 controller. Turns out there is no COS output on the radio. Apparently the signal does exist inside it but I'd have to run a haywire out the radio to get at it. The RBI-1 apparently handles the COS by using the

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Besemer (WM4B)
http://radioinsight.com/boards/index.php?t=msg http://radioinsight.com/boards/index.php?t=msggoto=58094rid=0S=67a57780f 5f76038ba7ec84fc7e17077#msg_58094 goto=58094rid=0S=67a57780f5f76038ba7ec84fc7e17077#msg_58094 From what I understand, they took an ax to the feedline and collected up the

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Bob M.
Usually, when the impedance/VSWR changes a large amount, or the axe shorts the center to the outer conductors, the transmitter will fault and shut down. It may try to recycle a couple of times, but that's about it. They usually do a good job protecting themselves. I was working on some station

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Besemer (WM4B)
I hope that the initial shutdown time (and any subsequent attempts to restart) sent a hell of a jolt up the ax! I used to work and airborne radar set that had overload protection on the magnetron. it took 7 successive misfires before it would shut down fully. One night while troubleshooting an

[Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 and an Arcom 810

2008-04-22 Thread Eric M.
Does anyone have any tips for using an Arcom 810 on an MSR2000 VHF repeater? One of the local clubs up here has acquired these 2 pieces of equipment and are looking to get this repeater up and running to replace their existing machine. Any help would be appreciated. Eric.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Super Stationmaster Omni Fiberglass Antenna, information

2008-04-22 Thread Richard Sharp, KQ4KX
Joe, If you look at the PDF from the link that was provided you'll find that it IS the spec sheet for the 220-2 which is the 142-150MHz version of the Super Stationmaster antenna. The 25-299.9 frequency reference you're seeing is the category of antennas that Celwave is putting this antenna

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 and an Arcom 810

2008-04-22 Thread Ken Arck
At 04:08 PM 4/22/2008, Eric M. wrote: Does anyone have any tips for using an Arcom 810 on an MSR2000 VHF repeater? One of the local clubs up here has acquired these 2 pieces of equipment and are looking to get this repeater up and running to replace their existing machine. Have a look at the

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread ka9qjg
Well that Picture sure put Things in Perspective Only one Comment Unbelievable I guess the Old Saying a Picture is worth a thousand words is True in this case Don KA9QJG

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread sgreact47
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Alexandre Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s: I've run across several other technology-groups who like to post 'Wall of Shame' pix - got a few myself. Any interest out there? I have that on my site:

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Jim Miller WB5OXQ in Waco
There has got to be a way to catch and make an example of these thieves. The buyers of copper must be trained to be selective about who they buy this stuff from and require good ID and keep records of who they buy from and be aware that the stuff might be stolen. Regulations as stiff as

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Nate Duehr
Wayne wrote: I also have a bulkhead mount Polyphaser which I could, for the time being, install at the repeater itself and use a jumper there that is Others may disagree, but the Polyphaser is only perfect if tied to a properly planned single-point or halo/ring grounding system. It'll

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Tony VE6MVP
At 06:49 PM 2008-04-22 -0500, Jim Miller WB5OXQ in Waco wrote: The buyers of copper must be trained to be selective about who they buy this stuff from and require good ID and keep records of who they buy from and be aware that the stuff might be stolen. That's the big problem. No matter how

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Joe
At my last job we were having copper ground buss bars stolen. They would hit a cellsite and take them all at ground level. This could add up to 5 or 10 buss bars if the site had multiple carriers on it. The fix has been to replace the buss bars with tinned copper buss bars. It will be a

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter

2008-04-22 Thread Nate Duehr
Alexandre Souza wrote: p.s: I've run across several other technology-groups who like to post 'Wall of Shame' pix - got a few myself. Any interest out there? I have that on my site: http://www.tabajara-labs.com.br/eletronica/gambiarras/ Send me the photos and I'll put there

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread ka9qjg
. Many thieves are only interested in $10-20 worth of copper. That's all it takes to buy a dose of drugs and get high. 73, Joe, K1ike Well I Don't think is just Drugs and stuff like that anymore ,Now We have to think what $ 5.00 Will buy a Gal of Gas , a Pack of Cigs ,a Gallon of Milk and

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Kris Kirby
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008, Jim Miller WB5OXQ in Waco wrote: There has got to be a way to catch and make an example of these thieves. The buyers of copper must be trained to be selective about who they buy this stuff from and require good ID and keep records of who they buy from and be aware that

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread MCH
Well, how about feeding 220 (and I'm not talking the MHz variety) through a piece of Heliax to feed something on the tower like a light? (or even as an unterminated open circuit) That way, when the cut through it with the rest, SURPRISE! The guy who was stealing the cable will be the body

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 and an Arcom 810

2008-04-22 Thread Mike Morris WA6ILQ
At 04:15 PM 04/22/08, you wrote: At 04:08 PM 4/22/2008, Eric M. wrote: Does anyone have any tips for using an Arcom 810 on an MSR2000 VHF repeater? One of the local clubs up here has acquired these 2 pieces of equipment and are looking to get this repeater up and running to replace their

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Barry C'
Prevention is better than a cure ( which you keep secrete) Geovision siftware and some old cctv cams is cheap connected to some sort of high intensity light source tends to slow them down ... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:23:51 -0400

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread MCH
My way is prevention. Once they hit that Heliax, they don't be hitting any more tower sites - preventing the next guy and likely saving some of your lines. Your way is just passing the problem on to the next site. (not meant as criticism per se) By weeding out all the scum, the problem is

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread MCH
But, they don't know the value of that, and likely don't have any outlets to get money from it. But, they DO know the value of copper, and there are plenty of scrap yards.. BUT, you would think that the first few cuts would have deterred them since the majority of the metal is NOT copper - as

Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Henry Wingate
Once we tried smearing the feedline with a mixture of cosmoline, carbon black and gentian violet. But alas came the time when WE had to work on it ! MCH wrote: Well, how about feeding 220 (and I'm not talking the MHz variety) through a piece of Heliax to feed something on the tower like a

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Paul Finch
They obviously did not know the value of the connector and when you consider the 1/2 Heliax has an thin copper coated aluminum center conductor they really did not get much. It also looks like the 7/7 Heliax is also the solid aluminum type but the resolution is fairly poor when I blow it up to

RE: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Filtering and Micor

2008-04-22 Thread Thomas Oliver
If you are using correctly installed stock micor pl decoder board and you are taking your audio from the audio squelch board pin 7 (preamp output) the ctcss will be removed and the audio de-emphasized at this point. You would have to mod the controller for de-emphasized audio. If you want to

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Carrier Control Timer (use the COR-2 circuit)

2008-04-22 Thread no6b
At 4/22/2008 11:25, you wrote: Re: Carrier Control Timer (use the COR-2 circuit) The 555 timer is a lot like the 723 (voltage reg) chip in regards to a very large variety of available circuit options and layouts that simply must obey certain rules detailed in the Mfgrs data sheets. Onward...

RE: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft

2008-04-22 Thread Barry C'
Premeditated manslaugther .. MM nah thank but no thanks To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:05:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] More on Copper theft My way is prevention. Once they hit that Heliax,