[Repeater-Builder] IFR 1600S Problems
My IFR 1600S is giving me a couple problems. One is it appears to have some high frequency noise in the received audio, but the generated signal and audio looks and sounds clean. I am thinking maybe some caps in the power supply might be causing this problem. I have the three inch thick operators manual, but does anyone have a service manual for one of these beasts. I tried to run the calibration from the aux menu but I can not seem to find a password that the operators manual makes reference of. Any help or ideas would be most appreciated. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW I tried
[Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries
Hello all. I am trying to figure out if the duplexer we have put together is up to the task or not. Here is the situation. We have four cavities 6.5 dia. one is a vari-notch the others are simple reject cans. Two rejects are on the TX side and one reject and the vari-notch are on the RX side. All set and tuned with rg-213 jumpers between cans and RG-142 from the cans to the Tee connector. We are doing some light testing with a cheap dual ban antenna on the garage. It is feed with RG-8 about 70 feet. We are having some issues with receive. It kind of sounds like desense but I think it is something wrong with the receiver. I was just wondering if the cobbeled together cans sound like thay are doing a good enough job as a duplexer or if we do have something to change on it. The repeater is only putting out 2 watts for testing. I would think I have enough separation for that power level. Any suggestions or thoughts woyuld be greatly appreciated. Thanks Wade KC0MLT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries
RG-8 is not good for duplex. The braid will make TX noise and get into the receiver. Cheap antennas can make the same problem. Test into a dummy load right at the duplexer. If no noise then you know it's the feed line and/or antenna. 6.5 inch dia cans are big ones so you should have plenty of isolation specially for 2 watts. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:28 AM, kc0mlt kc0...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello all. I am trying to figure out if the duplexer we have put together is up to the task or not. Here is the situation. We have four cavities 6.5 dia. one is a vari-notch the others are simple reject cans. Two rejects are on the TX side and one reject and the vari-notch are on the RX side. All set and tuned with rg-213 jumpers between cans and RG-142 from the cans to the Tee connector. We are doing some light testing with a cheap dual ban antenna on the garage. It is feed with RG-8 about 70 feet. We are having some issues with receive. It kind of sounds like desense but I think it is something wrong with the receiver. I was just wondering if the cobbeled together cans sound like thay are doing a good enough job as a duplexer or if we do have something to change on it. The repeater is only putting out 2 watts for testing. I would think I have enough separation for that power level. Any suggestions or thoughts woyuld be greatly appreciated. Thanks Wade KC0MLT -- :wq Tim
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries
Hi have you put a spectrum analyser on the rx port and fed, from a signal generator, the tx freq into the aerial input making sure that the tx port is terminated at 50 ohms. What freqs, what split. You need to know just what level is getting to the rx port, it has to be around 70dB rejection or you will allways have some desense 73 Steve - Original Message - From: kc0mlt kc0...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 3:28 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries Hello all. I am trying to figure out if the duplexer we have put together is up to the task or not. Here is the situation. We have four cavities 6.5 dia. one is a vari-notch the others are simple reject cans. Two rejects are on the TX side and one reject and the vari-notch are on the RX side. All set and tuned with rg-213 jumpers between cans and RG-142 from the cans to the Tee connector. We are doing some light testing with a cheap dual ban antenna on the garage. It is feed with RG-8 about 70 feet. We are having some issues with receive. It kind of sounds like desense but I think it is something wrong with the receiver. I was just wondering if the cobbeled together cans sound like thay are doing a good enough job as a duplexer or if we do have something to change on it. The repeater is only putting out 2 watts for testing. I would think I have enough separation for that power level. Any suggestions or thoughts woyuld be greatly appreciated. Thanks Wade KC0MLT Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries
Hi Tim see my message, you really do need to check isolation with an analyser I had a look at a duplexer for a chap and there was just 30dB isolation so needless to say the desense was tremendous. It took an input signal of around 70 microvolts to overcome desense. I retuned it on my analyser and got 80dB and it worked Steve - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries RG-8 is not good for duplex. The braid will make TX noise and get into the receiver. Cheap antennas can make the same problem. Test into a dummy load right at the duplexer. If no noise then you know it's the feed line and/or antenna. 6.5 inch dia cans are big ones so you should have plenty of isolation specially for 2 watts. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:28 AM, kc0mlt kc0...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello all. I am trying to figure out if the duplexer we have put together is up to the task or not. Here is the situation. We have four cavities 6.5 dia. one is a vari-notch the others are simple reject cans. Two rejects are on the TX side and one reject and the vari-notch are on the RX side. All set and tuned with rg-213 jumpers between cans and RG-142 from the cans to the Tee connector. We are doing some light testing with a cheap dual ban antenna on the garage. It is feed with RG-8 about 70 feet. We are having some issues with receive. It kind of sounds like desense but I think it is something wrong with the receiver. I was just wondering if the cobbeled together cans sound like thay are doing a good enough job as a duplexer or if we do have something to change on it. The repeater is only putting out 2 watts for testing. I would think I have enough separation for that power level. Any suggestions or thoughts woyuld be greatly appreciated. Thanks Wade KC0MLT -- :wq Tim
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries
Yep, low isolation in the duplexer could be the problem. And the correct thing to do is measure it. But if he doesn't have the test gear putting a dummy load on the output of the duplexer will give a pretty good idea whether the duplexer is tuned correctly or not. If there's no desense with a dummy load then the RG-8 might be the problem. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Steve steve.m1...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Hi Tim see my message, you really do need to check isolation with an analyser I had a look at a duplexer for a chap and there was just 30dB isolation so needless to say the desense was tremendous. It took an input signal of around 70 microvolts to overcome desense. I retuned it on my analyser and got 80dB and it worked Steve - Original Message - *From:* Tim Sawyer tisaw...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 3:47 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries RG-8 is not good for duplex. The braid will make TX noise and get into the receiver. Cheap antennas can make the same problem. Test into a dummy load right at the duplexer. If no noise then you know it's the feed line and/or antenna. 6.5 inch dia cans are big ones so you should have plenty of isolation specially for 2 watts. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:28 AM, kc0mlt kc0...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello all. I am trying to figure out if the duplexer we have put together is up to the task or not. Here is the situation. We have four cavities 6.5 dia. one is a vari-notch the others are simple reject cans. Two rejects are on the TX side and one reject and the vari-notch are on the RX side. All set and tuned with rg-213 jumpers between cans and RG-142 from the cans to the Tee connector. We are doing some light testing with a cheap dual ban antenna on the garage. It is feed with RG-8 about 70 feet. We are having some issues with receive. It kind of sounds like desense but I think it is something wrong with the receiver. I was just wondering if the cobbeled together cans sound like thay are doing a good enough job as a duplexer or if we do have something to change on it. The repeater is only putting out 2 watts for testing. I would think I have enough separation for that power level. Any suggestions or thoughts woyuld be greatly appreciated. Thanks Wade KC0MLT -- :wq Tim -- :wq Tim
Re: [Repeater-Builder] IFR 1600S Problems
Dont know for sure on the 1600, but for future reference the calibration password on the IFR-1900CSA is CSMATE which will have to be input from the keypad with the shift engaged. Apparently it is written in the service manual, which I don't have. With that said you should probably stay out of there without a service manual and another test set of known calibration. I'd suspect the caps getting weak in a negative voltage generator, look for a ICL-7660 or MAX1044. Or I'd try replacing the audio amplifier. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 11:25 PM, burkleoj joeburk...@hotmail.com wrote: My IFR 1600S is giving me a couple problems. One is it appears to have some high frequency noise in the received audio, but the generated signal and audio looks and sounds clean. I am thinking maybe some caps in the power supply might be causing this problem. I have the three inch thick operators manual, but does anyone have a service manual for one of these beasts. I tried to run the calibration from the aux menu but I can not seem to find a password that the operators manual makes reference of. Any help or ideas would be most appreciated. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW I tried Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries
How true you can also tune duplexers using a receiver, but you need a signal generator. I would ask if anyone local to him has the gear to check his setup, you can spend a long time playing with duplexers without the right test gear, I know from experience. The other thing is insertion loss Yes you do need to use good coax and decent connectors 73 Steve - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries Yep, low isolation in the duplexer could be the problem. And the correct thing to do is measure it. But if he doesn't have the test gear putting a dummy load on the output of the duplexer will give a pretty good idea whether the duplexer is tuned correctly or not. If there's no desense with a dummy load then the RG-8 might be the problem. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Steve steve.m1...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Hi Tim see my message, you really do need to check isolation with an analyser I had a look at a duplexer for a chap and there was just 30dB isolation so needless to say the desense was tremendous. It took an input signal of around 70 microvolts to overcome desense. I retuned it on my analyser and got 80dB and it worked Steve - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries RG-8 is not good for duplex. The braid will make TX noise and get into the receiver. Cheap antennas can make the same problem. Test into a dummy load right at the duplexer. If no noise then you know it's the feed line and/or antenna. 6.5 inch dia cans are big ones so you should have plenty of isolation specially for 2 watts. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:28 AM, kc0mlt kc0...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello all. I am trying to figure out if the duplexer we have put together is up to the task or not. Here is the situation. We have four cavities 6.5 dia. one is a vari-notch the others are simple reject cans. Two rejects are on the TX side and one reject and the vari-notch are on the RX side. All set and tuned with rg-213 jumpers between cans and RG-142 from the cans to the Tee connector. We are doing some light testing with a cheap dual ban antenna on the garage. It is feed with RG-8 about 70 feet. We are having some issues with receive. It kind of sounds like desense but I think it is something wrong with the receiver. I was just wondering if the cobbeled together cans sound like thay are doing a good enough job as a duplexer or if we do have something to change on it. The repeater is only putting out 2 watts for testing. I would think I have enough separation for that power level. Any suggestions or thoughts woyuld be greatly appreciated. Thanks Wade KC0MLT -- :wq Tim -- :wq Tim
[Repeater-Builder] call I list some Quintron repeaters for sale?
I have 3 Quintron low band repeaters for sale---but I do not want to want to violate this group if that is not appropriate. Charlie Bennetch N4LNU
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How much gain or how much loss on the PD220-3A
Yup-that was me! I got that info from my dad actually back in the 70's, not long after he left New-Tronics. Here's the link to the article on RB: http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/retuning-a-stationmaster.html Let me know on here if there's any questions! (The netscape addy is no good anymore, btw.) On 5/19/2010 11:47 PM, Doug Bade wrote: Someone ( WD8CHL JIM ) wrote some documentation up about using a Co-linear from a higher freq on a lower freq... and angle of radiation lowered as I recall but gain did not change... It actually can be favorable depending on the site as I recall.. I think it was Jim anyhow.. forgive me if I offered a wrong author :-)...who penned some information on moving commercial colinear to amateur and some sleeving was needed bring the feed point back to 50 ohms... but no other mods were done that I recall... Doug KD8B WA3GIN wrote: Hi folks, I'm curious about this question of operating the Station Master 10Mhz off resonant frequency. The antenna seems to be working fine from observed performance but that could just be the 425ft ASL in an area where average elevation is 30ftASL. I've searched the WEB but haven't yet found a reference that would ascertain the performance of the antenna. Should I presume unity gain on 146. from an antenna with 5db gain at 156.Mhz? Thoughts welcome, dave wa3gin Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer on the cheap worries
On 5/21/2010 10:28 AM, kc0mlt wrote: Hello all. I am trying to figure out if the duplexer we have put together is up to the task or not. Here is the situation. We have four cavities 6.5 dia. one is a vari-notch the others are simple reject cans. Two rejects are on the TX side and one reject and the vari-notch are on the RX side. All set and tuned with rg-213 jumpers between cans and RG-142 from the cans to the Tee connector. We are doing some light testing with a cheap dual ban antenna on the garage. It is feed with RG-8 about 70 feet. We are having some issues with receive. It kind of sounds like desense but I think it is something wrong with the receiver. I was just wondering if the cobbeled together cans sound like thay are doing a good enough job as a duplexer or if we do have something to change on it. The repeater is only putting out 2 watts for testing. I would think I have enough separation for that power level. Any suggestions or thoughts woyuld be greatly appreciated. Thanks Wade KC0MLT Dump the RG-213 and RG-8 and use at least RG-214 between cavities, or 1/2 hardline on the run up to the antenna. RG-8 and -213 are single shielded and do not provide adequate isolation. You need 100% shielding. Also find a GOOD dummy load, and substitute that in place of the antenna. If you still have the problem, there is an antenna issue.
[Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater
I was up on the hill this afternoon loading new firmware into a controller when my UHF Master II went down. Didn't even touch the thing... The PS is working with 15 volts out and the 3 fuses in the front are fine. The 10 volt card checked OK in my spare repeater No 10 volts at all. Any ideas? Ben-W4WSM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater
Could be a dirty contact on the backplane. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: w4wsm b.run...@insightbb.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:45 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater I was up on the hill this afternoon loading new firmware into a controller when my UHF Master II went down. Didn't even touch the thing... The PS is working with 15 volts out and the 3 fuses in the front are fine. The 10 volt card checked OK in my spare repeater No 10 volts at all. Any ideas? Ben-W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2887 - Release Date: 05/21/10 02:26:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater
Or it could be one of the jumpers on the 10 Volt card has a cold joint-I have seen this before on these cards From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:59 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater Could be a dirty contact on the backplane. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: w4wsm b.run...@insightbb.com mailto:b.runner%40insightbb.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:45 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater I was up on the hill this afternoon loading new firmware into a controller when my UHF Master II went down. Didn't even touch the thing... The PS is working with 15 volts out and the 3 fuses in the front are fine. The 10 volt card checked OK in my spare repeater No 10 volts at all. Any ideas? Ben-W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2887 - Release Date: 05/21/10 02:26:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater
I swapped a known good 10v card and still nothing then tried the card from this repeater in my other repeater and it worked fine so it looks like the card is good. Will check the backplane and see if anything looks loose... --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Seybold aseyb...@... wrote: Or it could be one of the jumpers on the 10 Volt card has a cold joint-I have seen this before on these cards From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:59 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater Could be a dirty contact on the backplane. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: w4wsm b.run...@... mailto:b.runner%40insightbb.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:45 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater I was up on the hill this afternoon loading new firmware into a controller when my UHF Master II went down. Didn't even touch the thing... The PS is working with 15 volts out and the 3 fuses in the front are fine. The 10 volt card checked OK in my spare repeater No 10 volts at all. Any ideas? Ben-W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2887 - Release Date: 05/21/10 02:26:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater
i have no idea at all on what systems you run, or what they are, other than, a repeater, but just an idea maybe, to try. the Controller, you refer to, that you were uploading new firmware, is that, anything to do with the uhf system, in anyway. if not, perhaps try shutting down the system, with the controller in it, for a couple of seconds, maybe and see, if it is not radiating, some kind of interference, that interfares with your UHF system i only say this out of course, since occassonly i have to upload new firmware to Tait Mobile units and desktop computers ( firmware here = bios upgrades ) and now and again one interfares with the other just a thought maybe worth looking at Marcus On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:45 AM, w4wsm b.run...@insightbb.com wrote: I was up on the hill this afternoon loading new firmware into a controller when my UHF Master II went down. Didn't even touch the thing... The PS is working with 15 volts out and the 3 fuses in the front are fine. The 10 volt card checked OK in my spare repeater No 10 volts at all. Any ideas? Ben-W4WSM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Lost 10 volts in a Master II UHF Repeater
I would look for a shorted tantalum capacitor hanging somewhere on the 10V rail. If you hook 10V from an outside source to the 10V buss, you'll probably find it's drawing all kinds of current. The 10V regulator circuit will go into fold back before burning up. This is by design. I usually hook a source of 10V at about 1.5A and look for smoke. It's usually one of the tantalum capacitors that starts to smoke. Once it's done smoking, problem solved!! I have lost track of how many shorted tantalums I have had over the years. When they occur in the B+ of the high current PA supply, they simply burn up and th problem fixes itself. The 10V regulator doesn't have enough guts to burn them up, so they stay shorted and wait for someone to find them. Often times it is a cap on the mixer board. Those are fed though a resistor of a few ohms. Good luck, Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 w4wsm wrote: I was up on the hill this afternoon loading new firmware into a controller when my UHF Master II went down. Didn't even touch the thing... The PS is working with 15 volts out and the 3 fuses in the front are fine. The 10 volt card checked OK in my spare repeater No 10 volts at all. Any ideas? Ben-W4WSM Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How much gain or how much loss on the PD220-3A
At 5/21/2010 12:16, you wrote: Yup-that was me! I got that info from my dad actually back in the 70's, not long after he left New-Tronics. Here's the link to the article on RB: http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/retuning-a-stationmaster.html I did this mod. to a UHF StationMaster a few years ago. Worked very well though the actual gain is a couple of dB off from a GP9, as you'd expect since it's about 5 ft. shorter than a GP9. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Need source for UHF power module
Hi Does anyone know of a good source for a M57729h-01-p. It is the UHF power module in the Kenwood TKR-820. It is rated at 30 Watts 12 volts 440 to 470 MHz. I found that they do not like to be operated into the wrong side of a duplexer. For even a short time. Is it used in any other transceivers that might be purchased for the module? Thanks Byron NJ7J
