RE: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra Scan - Part Deux
So far, no response to this. Can anyone say definitively if a Spectra with a v1.x MLM will scan or not? The guy is coming tomorrow for some programming. Thanks, Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of N9WYS For everyone on the list - with some offline assistance from Dave WA4ECM, I was able to get this working the way I wanted it to. There was more to it than just activating the scan list from the front panel - I still had not properly activated the scan options in the RSS. Anyway, it is working as I desired. Thanks to everyone for your assistance! Now, I have another ham friend who has a Spectra with a v1.x MLM and would like his radio to be able to scan as well. His rig has 1 trunked profile and 10 conventional modes. Anyone know the Reader's Digest version of how to activate this for him? 73 de Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra Scan - Part Deux
Hehehehehe.. TNX anyway, Kris. ;-) 73 es Cheers! Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Kris Kirby On Wed, 3 Feb 2010, N9WYS wrote: So far, no response to this? Can anyone say definitively if a Spectra with a v1.x MLM will scan or not? Sorry, I drank those brain cells to death trying to erase the pain of using RSS. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra Scan - Part Deux
For everyone on the list - with some offline assistance from Dave WA4ECM, I was able to get this working the way I wanted it to. There was more to it than just activating the scan list from the front panel - I still had not properly activated the scan options in the RSS. Anyway, it is working as I desired. Thanks to everyone for your assistance! Now, I have another ham friend who has a Spectra with a v1.x MLM and would like his radio to be able to scan as well. His rig has 1 trunked profile and 10 conventional modes. Anyone know the Reader's Digest version of how to activate this for him? 73 de Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra Scan
Kris - if the radio doesn't support conventional SCAN with a v6.x MLM, I don't know what one does. This is NOT an older radio. Dave - well, I can see the following in the Zone Scan Options: Talkback Scan. Enabled Scan Button Control... Active Coded Squelch Scan... Enabled SCAN TYPETalkgroup Non-Priority List Op Select This is set for each Zone. So why doesn't it work when I turn SCAN on? (I tried to find this reference in the RSS manual, but that is an exercise in futility.) Maybe I need to select the Non-Priority scan list somehow - possibly from the front panel?? Mark From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of David Murman I don't have the radio or manual with me at this time but I think you need to program scan by going to F2 then select zones then select scan. I have my Spectra set up for Zones so I can have a different scan for the Zone I select. Hope this helps. David From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Kris Kirby On Sat, 30 Jan 2010, N9WYS wrote: I am trying to program my 900 MHz Spectra for SCAN. This radio is modified for Conventional/Zones/MPL (with 120 modes). When I go into the CONVENTIONAL CONFIGURATION screen, I have no ability to select SCAN (neither ENABLED nor DISABLED) - NOTHING shows in the menu at all. I MUST be missing something, but I can't for the life of me figure out what it may be. I have the following MOFLAGS set: Bit Flag Setting 2 3 Conv_With_Sys_Scan = ENABLED 3 5 Conv_Message = ENABLED 3 7 Conv_Status = ENABLED 5 2 Conv_OpSel_Scan = ENABLED 5 6 NonPri_Mode_Slaved_Scan = ENABLED 5 7 Pri_Mode_Slaved_Scan = ENABLED What do I need to turn on in the MOFLAGS to get this to scan?? If you use the example MOFLAGS from Batlabs, the radio will be open to almost any feature the MLM supports. So if you use those MOFLAGS and it doesn't work, you probably need to change the MLM to one that supports conventional scan. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
[Repeater-Builder] Spectra Scan
OK - for the learned group... I am trying to program my 900 MHz Spectra for SCAN. This radio is modified for Conventional/Zones/MPL (with 120 modes). When I go into the CONVENTIONAL CONFIGURATION screen, I have no ability to select SCAN (neither ENABLED nor DISABLED) - NOTHING shows in the menu at all. I MUST be missing something, but I can't for the life of me figure out what it may be. I have the following MOFLAGS set: Bit Flag Setting 23Conv_With_Sys_Scan = ENABLED 35Conv_Message= ENABLED 37Conv_Status = ENABLED 52Conv_OpSel_Scan = ENABLED 56NonPri_Mode_Slaved_Scan = ENABLED 57Pri_Mode_Slaved_Scan= ENABLED What do I need to turn on in the MOFLAGS to get this to scan?? Thanks, Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKR 720
Greg, Have you disabled the internal controller? It needs to be completely disconnected and some wires jumpered before the external controller will work as designed... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k9gjn Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKR 720 Trying to interface a NHRC controler with a TKR 720 can hear the controler ID very faintly in the background but cannot get it to accept any commands. Any suggestions why the repeater cannot communicate with the controler? The repeater works fine just cant get the controler to work. Thanks Greg K9GJN
RE: [Repeater-Builder] FS- Motorola R100 UHF Repeaters
Dave, This is your best resource for information regarding your inquiry: http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/r100/r100-index.html Mark N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Hubbell Whats involved in making these work on ham band? Dave On 1/16/2010 9:10 AM, tracomm wrote: For sale--Motorola R-100 UHF Repeaters UHF, now on 461/466 MHz. 110 vac or 12 vdc 4 units- Complete, clean 2 ea. Power out, working when removed 1 ea. ½ watt output 1 ea. Power up, no tx or rx no further checking Model H5016B (3) H5018 (1) 1 ea ComSpecTP3200 Controller with cable to R-100 Make great link repeaters #1- H5016B794FRW0114 ½ watt output #2- H5016B794FSA0173 28 watts output #3- H5018B794FPS0081 No tx/No rx #4- H5016B376FPL0087 24 watts output Sold as a package $500.00 plus UPS Shipping weight 2 boxes, 75 lbs ea. Shipped from 48088 trac...@aol.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.150/2632 - Release Date: 01/19/10 07:34:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: my previous Caution post
For those wanting to be extra careful while continuing to use Internet Explorer, I think you can prevent this as well... In my instance, I have the following configuration in IE: Within Internet Explorer, select Internet Options, then select the Privacy tab. First, check the box Turn on pop-up blocker Next, click the Advanced button. CHECK the box reading: Override automatic cookie handling Below that check: ACCEPT First-Party cookies and PROMPT Third-Party Cookies I also have checked: Always allow session cookies These settings block a LOT of the banner pop-ups normally associated with various websites. I haven't been bitten by a bug in quite a while (pounding - not knocking - on wood!) while using these settings. This includes the dreaded Antivirus 2009 that is becoming more prevalent lately. Of course, Malwarebytes Antimalware wil remove that one, but I've been able to avoid it altogether so far this way... YMMV. Good luck, all - and happy surfing. 73 de Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JG Tnx Skipp !! You've saved my bacon. I have since loaded Adblock Plus to Firefox and Thunderbird.. 73 VK4JKL
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Replacement Caps. for Motorola Micor Pwr supplies
Last time I needed them, I bought them from Motorola themselves. still available, but certainly not cheap! _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of kh6...@netscape.net Does anyone have a source for these capacitors, Which are used in Motorola Micor power supplies? TPN1106A C1006-C1009 2000 mfd, 100V @10% C1012, C1013 17,500 mfd 20V @10% TPN1110A C1 6 mfd @ 660v C2-9 17,500 mfd 20v @ 10% TPN1151A C1-2 8000 mfd 35v @ 10% 73's,Jim Kh6jkg. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.51/2297 - Release Date: 08/11/09 18:27:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Narrow banding question
Agreed, Eric... but being affiliated with public safety, I also see that some agencies (mostly municipalities with limited budgets) are waiting as long as possible before being forced to bite the bullet. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon All true. However, I daresay that most of the non-convertible equipment has already been taken out of service, long ago. At least in my area, most users of high-tier equipment like Spectra, TK-990, and CDM radios are replacing them because they are getting long in the tooth- and these radios are already narrow-band compliant. Dual-bandwidth equipment first came on the market more than a decade ago. My gut feeling is that operators of large radio fleets will use the narrow-banding deadline as a convenient time to replace the entire fleet at once, not because of the narrow-banding requirement per se, but because they must re-program every radio, base station, and repeater they own and do it with minimum disruption. When you have 2,000 radios, it can take a week or more to reprogram the fleet. If you use the deadline as an opportunity to put new radios into service, you buy your 2,000 new radios a month in advance and program and bench-test all of them on the narrow-band channels. Just before the day you pick to make the changeover, you deliver new radios and chargers to all users, with instructions to start using the new radios on Monday morning. The radio techs will ensure that the base stations and/or repeaters are either reprogrammed or replaced just prior to that day. If well-planned, this will work. Obviously, users with many mobile radios will need to allow extra time for replacing them. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of N9WYS Albert, This depends on the service. Public Safety and Business Radio services are affected. Amateur Radio and GMRS are not - at this time. (IIRC) I would certainly expect to see a glut of non-narrowband compatible equipment enter the surplus market soon... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Albert Yes, I realize it effects only UHF and VHF users. Maybe I was unclear with my question. Is is ALL VHF and UHF users? I was under the impression it was only the upper UHF trunked systems and the like. But maybe I was confused. Will many users have to dump their older radios and have to upgrade? I was wondering what surplus equipment might be coming onto the market due to the changes. If you have seen posts from me before, I am interested in Motorola Genesis related radio gear. I was curious if there might be a flood of it on the market in the near future. Thanks
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Narrow banding question
Albert, This depends on the service. Public Safety and Business Radio services are affected. Amateur Radio and GMRS are not - at this time. (IIRC) I would certainly expect to see a glut of non-narrowband compatible equipment enter the surplus market soon... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Albert Yes, I realize it effects only UHF and VHF users. Maybe I was unclear with my question. Is is ALL VHF and UHF users? I was under the impression it was only the upper UHF trunked systems and the like. But maybe I was confused. Will many users have to dump their older radios and have to upgrade? I was wondering what surplus equipment might be coming onto the market due to the changes. If you have seen posts from me before, I am interested in Motorola Genesis related radio gear. I was curious if there might be a flood of it on the market in the near future. Thanks
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for desktrack info
Allan, First off, if it is being used as a desktop station radio (i.e., NOT duplex) the first thing that you will find is you need to add another radio chassis to be able to convert it into a repeater - the DeskTrac repeater used separate chassis (plural) for TX and RX. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Brian Raker Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for desktrack info Motorola DeskTrac Service Manual, still in print. $77 from Motorola Online. P/N 6802993G65. Also, RB-Tip has information about the pinouts on the DB25 connectors on the back. Hope this helps! -Brian / KF4zwz On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Brian Rakerbrian.ra...@gmail.com wrote: I've got two UHF DeskTracs as well that I would like to push into service. I'll take a look at MotoOnline and see if they still have documentation in print. -Brian / KF4ZWZ On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, ve2pfve...@yahoo.com wrote: We have a desktrack that is allready used at our club for ham radio operation, but its working in stand alone mode. we would like o interface it to our repeater controler. but we have no service manual or user manual for it.. any one here have some info you culd share? we are willing to pay for it..
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Getting mice out of a repeater sight
Yes, by all means DO NOT breathe the dust! I can't remember the name of the disease, but it can be VERY nasty! Wear a dust mask while cleaning. Decon does work well, but then you'll have a bunch of dead mice to clean out - and if you're not there on a regular basis they will stink. Mark - N9WYS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of kd6aaj 70% Isopropanol Alcohal is my favorite cleaner. Make sure all power is off to the radio, and give it a few minutes to evaporate before restoring power. 73, KD6AAJ --- On Tue, 7/28/09, Michael Ryan mryan...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jed Barton Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:19 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Getting mice out of a repeater sight Hey guys, I am sure many of you have been through this before. The evil mice decided to waunder in to my repeater sight. Up until now they avoided my repeater, but when I went up there, I was less than pleased. They didn't chew any wires thank god, but they walked across the top of the icom rp4020, and left some presents if you know what I mean. I need some input, what's the best way to clean it up, anything in particular? All the covers were on, so I don't think they got inside, but haven't pulled the cover off yet. Any ideas? Thanks, Jed No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.34/2268 - Release Date: 07/28/09 06:00:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] newbie
Welcome Andy! Hope you have success in finding a new home for GB3CC. 73 de Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy Hearn Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:47 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] newbie Hi Everyone Just found this group from repeater-builder site. Run GB3CC, but off air due to loss of commercial site due to increased rent etc. Hoping to get CC back on air soon, just have to acquire some more cavities, and negotiate a new site ! GB3CC is (was) running a Vertex VXR-5000 with G8CUL logic. Regards Andy G3UEQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for John Holland...
County of Fresno. _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Allred Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for John Holland... I know a John Holland. Where was he from and where did he work? Steve / K6SCA --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Mark n9...@ameritech.net wrote: From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for John Holland... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 6:47 PM I am trying to reach out for John Holland... we communicated a couple of months back regarding some Newbridge MainStreet 3624 units I am trying to program. John, Can you reach out for me via private email again? You email is bouncing. Thanks to the moderators for the bandwidth. Mark - N9WYS n9wys (at) ameritech (dot) net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.89/2197 - Release Date: 06/23/09 05:54:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF Squelch EEpot
Doesn't that (squelch tail without reverse burst) already occur? If so, I'm not particularly worried about it. Mark - N9WYS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of James Delancy PL only squelch will work solely on the PL detect function of the station. This means that if the PL coming out of the user radio is good and clean, it will hear to the noise floor. That also means that if the user radios do not have reverse burst on them, then every unkey will yield a burst of squelch noise. James N9WYS wrote: Adam... My experience with a C85GFB is that my squelch also seems a bit tight, but so far I have not been able to do anything about it. I set it to threshold when I had the service monitor on it, and the station was within specifications. FWIW - I currently have the station set for AND squelch, but have been told that PL-only squelch may be a bit more forgiving. I just haven't had an opportunity to get to the tower and change the setting to see for myself whether this is true. Mark - N9WYS No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.56/2161 - Release Date: 06/07/09 17:53:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF Squelch EEpot
Adam... My experience with a C85GFB is that my squelch also seems a bit tight, but so far I have not been able to do anything about it. I set it to threshold when I had the service monitor on it, and the station was within specifications. FWIW - I currently have the station set for AND squelch, but have been told that PL-only squelch may be a bit more forgiving. I just haven't had an opportunity to get to the tower and change the setting to see for myself whether this is true. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Adam Feuer Great, thanks James! Adam N2ACF James Delancy wrote: Receiver Squelch is just that ... a level at which the local receiver un-squelches. The repeater squelch is the level the station uses to determine (for its own internal controller) when it is actually going to pass a signal through for repeat. I would recommend that you just set both at the same level. The squelch knob on the front of the SSCB may also affect your squelch levels depending on where you are deriving your COR signaling. James Adam Feuer wrote: After interfacing my C74CXB to an external controller, everything seems to be playing real nice. In scrutinizing received signals, it seems as if the the MSF squelch is a little tight and not letting week signals become week but rather just squelching them out. The receiver is programmed for CTCSS decode so I would like to loosen the squelch a little. In the list of available EEpots, there are two settings that I'm not totally familiar with: Repeater Squelch and Receiver Squelch. If someone could provide me an explanation of both as well as which one I should lower to help my issue, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Adam N2ACF
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair - big price jump?
Don't you remember?? He promised you CHANGE... That is to the RIGHT of the decimal. ;-p Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo What didn't go way up? The number of digits to the left of the decimal point in my checking account balance hasn't gone up. I'm still waiting for all of that stimulus package trickle-down money that our new president promised me. (snip) --- Jeff WN3A
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dayton 2009
I agree with Skipp's review of Dayton... I left Saturday afternoon, mainly because I'd spent my allocations of money - but more so because I was staying at Motel Hell. Skipp - I tried to call your cell Friday around noon, but got no answer. I guess the brat waits for another year. ;-) Now to get to playing around will all the new goodies! 73 all! Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 10:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dayton 2009 Re: Dayton 2009 What does everyone who is here think? We try not to... This is my first year with a booth, but the longtimers are telling me that attendence is down again, and purchases are slow. Actually, this year is up in a number of areas with the possible exception of inside sales... only because last year inside sales were reported by some vendors to be near record high amounts. This year has so far been informally reported to be a a very good year... I know we still have all our MastrII stuff sitting here, as well as most of the MSF stuff. Not even getting offers. For a number of reasons, most of them unrealated to Dayton... Duplexers seem to be stagnant too. Repeat of the above above comment. What'cha got and what booth are you in? I'm seeing Decibel Motorola UHF duplexers selling in the $60 to $100 range (two and three cavity versions). There are decent quality Sinclair close space duplexers selling for $150 to $250 in addition to some very proud vendors who think they'll get $375 for the same product. There's a Paraflector (antenna) at one vendor booth I've seen purchased and resold at least twice already... very funny to see it move around the place. One booth has a large trailer full of surplus equipment selling for $1 per pound. Buying a boat anchor will cost you. We're having a great time here... last day in the Morning and then back to the salt mine. Friday Weather was very nice... dry and very warm. Many of the vampire and pasty white people started to lobster up in the mid day heat. Today (Saturday) was pretty good most of the time, nicely cooler. One or two large nasty fronts dumped buckets of rain for a reasonably short time... then we all nicely resufaced until about 4:15 when another front arrived. Most everyone was tired and had already started to wind down so it was just an early motivator to wrap up the day. Sunday is the big finish... Last Brat from the Cow-girl Drill Team (you have to have or be here to know about the CGDT) and then back on the healthy diet Monday morning. Can't tell you how pleasant the bathrooms smell when you wander in... Everyone's a pretty good mood so far. I've fallen off my Junk Ender's 12 step program and need rehab. cheers s. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Dayton
Exactly, Paul. ;-) I picked up a 220V heater for my garage for $50... The guy wanted $85 and I told him he'd be dragging it home after the rains on Saturday. (I bought it Friday when they were predicting rain all day for Saturday.) Got some other stuff I needed/wanted too. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Paul Dumdie --- (snip) --- But one mans junk is another mans treasure.
[Repeater-Builder] Follow-up: LCS2000 for 900 MHz Amateur
OK... I have the radios programmed. Thanks to all who helped with that!! I have noticed the radio is in MONITOR mode (little speaker symbol in upper left corner of the display). Grounding the mic button to the radio chassis does NOT clear this. Is there a way to program one of the front panel for MON ON/OFF, similar the GTX. Also, do I need to connect a couple of pins on the accessory connector? Connecting Pins 7 to 14 doesn't seem to work in this case. Additionally, pressing the lower far right button (the one to the right of the musical note) toggles display between non and noF What's that?? I know... a user's manual would be nice, but none available that I can find for download. Thanks! Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Dayton 2009
Nope - Magnuson Hotel in Dayton... right off I-75 just south of I-70. LOTS of little problems, and management was less that helpful. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of nj902 --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, N9WYS n9...@... wrote: I left Saturday afternoon, mainly because I'd spent my allocations of money - but more so because I was staying at Motel Hell. ... --- The Super Inn in Lewisburg? Ugh. Never again...
[Repeater-Builder] RE: Follow-up: LCS2000 for 900 MHz Amateur
OK, The button just right of the mic jack is a red diamond, similar to the EMERGENCY button on Tyco - MA/Com - Ericsson radios... THIS is the MON button on the GTX, but NOT the LCS2000. One suggestion I got was that it is the music note button that toggles PL, but I found out the correct button is the one that looks like a double-hung window - or maybe the capital letters P and L superimposed upon each other. (Or something like that anyway...) It's located on the far lower right of the panel, below the huge up and down arrow buttons, which do nothing in conventional mode. (Just like the GTX.) Once I figured that out, after connecting Pins 7 and 14 on the accessory jack, the button toggles the PL on and off. But once you press that button, you also have to press a Channel button (ether up or down) again to go back to a normal display. And, of course, you need different RSS to program them... even though they are close to being a GTX. Close, but no cigar. ;-) Thanks all!! Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question
Since I’m the one who started this thread, I think it is incumbent upon me to let the collective masses know how I am proceeding… To date, I have added additional filter caps (0.1 µf disc caps) to the SCR (GATE to GND) and across the output of the supply. I have already affixed ferrites to both ends of the cabling going from the supply to the PA. I am still blowing fuses. I am planning on adding caps from each output line (POS and NEG) to chassis ground. I was also told to dial down the output voltage a bit (it is at 13.8V now) to around 13.2V, because the Astron “ramps up” the voltage to its transistors as the supply nears rated capacity, which closes the gap between the operating voltages and where the SCR triggers. Can anyone confirm this? In the end if these fixes fail, I will be relegating the Astron to other duties (AKA: the trash can). I temporarily replaced the Astron supply with a 75A switching supply, and so far no problems – even after 30 minutes of steady operation of the repeater. (The Astron would fail after about 10 – 15 minutes of operation.) I was able to get my hands on a service monitor – the building is not shielded in any way, so there is RF all over the place. The only major peak we saw, however, was about 11.7 MHZ down from the center freq of my UHF repeater (the repeater TX is at 444.5500, the bump was at 437.8500) and after some testing we found it was from the switcher. It does not seem to be affecting the receiver of my repeater… For now, I think I’m going to stay with the switcher, until I am sure we have found a permanent fix for the Astron. Besides, with the current temp at -2°F, I’m in no hurry to go to the tower site. grin How ‘bout it, Skipp?? Any ideas? I know you’ve been away and busy, but I hope you are catching up on the thread… Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Gran Clark Bob Astron 35A supplies and probably other sizes are sensitive to the SCR triggering. One of the causes I found was due to a shift in the initial routing from the rectifier to the capacitors. When you put a supply back together be sure to give as much space as possible between the gate lead of the SCR and those wires going to the rectifier. Capacitor inrush at the peak of the 60Hz power turn on is prone to trigger the SCR. Gran K6RIF At 07:53 AM 12/8/2008, Bob M. wrote: I've had DMMs also go nuts at my site too. Luckily the Astron supply hasn't had that problem yet. The fuse usually blows when something catastrophic happens. One such thing is when the output voltage goes too high and the built-in SCR crowbar fires. It shorts the supply immediately, and the excess current usually causes the fuse to blow. Sometimes it also causes the diodes to short out, and they end up blowing the fuse. RF getting back into the supply can trip the SCR. Even RF riding on the supply lines can cause the voltage that the SCR sees to be high enough to trip it, even though it may not show up with a meter or even a scope. You've probably done all you can with the ferrites unless you missed the wires going to the SCR. On some supplies it's mounted to the chassis and has fairly long wires (just waiting to pick up RF) running to it. You'd be better off with ANY kind of unregulated power supply, such as what you had with the MICOR supply. Ferro-resonant transformers usually aren't susceptible to such RF problems, and there's nothing electronic such as a crowbar inside to trip and blow the fuse. This doesn't explain why your MICOR supply blew its fuse, unless you exceeded the output current capability. Most MICORs were only rated up to 100 watts, and the supplies probably are good to 25-30 amps MAX; it seems that your PA is already exceeding that. Then you tack on a receiver, exciter, etc, and you've gone past the limit for the MICOR supply. Even an MSF5000 supply would be strained to handle that much current; that's why the bigger stations have TWO supplies, one for each PA, and the VHF stations have 28V supplies in them. Solutions? You might consider a battery and a charger that's strong enough to keep the PA happy, to run just the PA. Split everything else off and run that on another smaller supply. Consider a switching regulator supply, rather than a linear regulator supply, to run the rest of the equipment. I know that some of the high power amps are now being built to run on 24-28VDC. This cuts the current consumption in half and they can be run with switching supplies. Let's hope Skip comes aboard here. I know he's had experience with these units. Bob M. ==
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question
Thanks to all who have offered suggestions - however sarcastic - about remedying this situation. They all merit consideration, and I will certainly do so... and will post my results! 73 de Mark - N9WYS
[Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question
For the learned group here. I know there has been some discussion on one the list regarding Astron Power supplies. Unfortunately, searching hasn't revealed what I am looking for, so I pose my query here and apologize in advance if this was a subject that was discussed at length in the past. I will describe my problem in detail, so forgive me for being so verbose right off the bat; but I figure if I provide a lot of info now, it will avoid a lot of question and answer exchanges later in order to get an understanding of my problem. I have a UHF ham repeater system (TKR-820 as transmitter, MICOR SpectraTAC receiver and comparator, Astron RM-70 Power Supply, and Crescend 150W P/A) that is experiencing issues with the power supply. Seems that when the repeater is on the air for any time (for example, over three minutes key-down) the power supply blows a fuse. The first time this happened, I changed out the P/S with a MICOR supply I had from a 100W continuous duty station. It also blew THAT fuse. The Astron supply that blew the fuse had two bad diodes in the rectifier, so that was repaired. There was nothing found wrong with the Motorola supply, other than the main fuse had blown. I took the PA back to Crescend, but they found nothing wrong with the P/A. The station was put back on the air with the repaired Astron supply. Was on the air for about two weeks, and failed again while I was talking to another ham. Went back to the tower and found the fuse blown again in the supply. I took the PA offline and brought it back to Crescend, told them of the issue with the P/S, and that I needed them to check the PA for problems. Their service tech called me and said he'd had the PA running on his workbench as we spoke, and had it transmitting for about 45 minutes with no problems - all operating within spec (~32A nominal - 38A max draw @ 165W output). After we talked some more, he said he'd leave it run all night. If it was OK, he'd ship it back. I got the PA back the following Tuesday. I put the station back on the air. In the meantime, I spoke with an engineer from Crescend who told me that they had some experience with RF getting into Astron supplies. so when I took the PA back to the tower, I put ferrites on the A+ and ground leads to the P/S from the PA. (There are about 10 wires altogether in the power cable going to the PA - two bundles of three A+, and four Grounds.) I put three ferrites altogether on the DC lines, and made three turns through the ferrites with each bundle. These were installed as close as physically possible to the power supply. I also put one turn on a ferrite for the entire bundle at the PA end. (Couldn't do more than that - was running out of cable length for hook-up.) I replaced the fuse again, and got the station back on the air. Worked for about 45 minutes (or long enough for me to be far enough away from the tower where I couldn't make a return trip that day) and promptly blew the fuse again. (Or so I suspect.) I haven't had a chance to go back to examine the cause of the failure this time - yet. Now - here's the WEIRD part. when I was at the tower with another tech and replaced the fuse the time before the last failure, we tried to use his DMM to check the P/S fuse for continuity. His meter acted as if the battery was dead - but later investigation revealed that the meter was getting hit with RF from another transmitter at the site. So I'm thinking that the RF problem may or may not be directly related to MY transmitter. (There is VHF 100W MICOR transmitter directly next to my equipment rack that is on 161.325, and transmits 24/7/365.) OK - here are the questions: 1) Has anyone experienced an issue with RF getting into Astron power supplies, and how did you remedy the issue? 2) Since the P/S fails only when my transmitter is on the air, could I be getting a mix of RF (the VHF and my UHF) that is causing this? To answer a question that may be posed, I do not have a SpecAn available to me to check for spurs, but I am contacting the county radio tech (it's a county-owned tower) to see if he can assist me with this. Any ideas, other than purchasing a hardened power supply, that could remedy my situation? Thanks, Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question
Hi, Bob. Long time, no chat! The Astron P/S only supplies the PA - all other items in the rack have their own power supplies, but I can still see where I may have exceeded the MICOR supply current limits. Other than that, I've been told to check al the coax jumpers to ensure they are in good order... to eliminate any RF issues. I do access to a 120A switcher that I may try and see what happens. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob M. Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question I've had DMMs also go nuts at my site too. Luckily the Astron supply hasn't had that problem yet. The fuse usually blows when something catastrophic happens. One such thing is when the output voltage goes too high and the built-in SCR crowbar fires. It shorts the supply immediately, and the excess current usually causes the fuse to blow. Sometimes it also causes the diodes to short out, and they end up blowing the fuse. RF getting back into the supply can trip the SCR. Even RF riding on the supply lines can cause the voltage that the SCR sees to be high enough to trip it, even though it may not show up with a meter or even a scope. You've probably done all you can with the ferrites unless you missed the wires going to the SCR. On some supplies it's mounted to the chassis and has fairly long wires (just waiting to pick up RF) running to it. You'd be better off with ANY kind of unregulated power supply, such as what you had with the MICOR supply. Ferro-resonant transformers usually aren't susceptible to such RF problems, and there's nothing electronic such as a crowbar inside to trip and blow the fuse. This doesn't explain why your MICOR supply blew its fuse, unless you exceeded the output current capability. Most MICORs were only rated up to 100 watts, and the supplies probably are good to 25-30 amps MAX; it seems that your PA is already exceeding that. Then you tack on a receiver, exciter, etc, and you've gone past the limit for the MICOR supply. Even an MSF5000 supply would be strained to handle that much current; that's why the bigger stations have TWO supplies, one for each PA, and the VHF stations have 28V supplies in them. Solutions? You might consider a battery and a charger that's strong enough to keep the PA happy, to run just the PA. Split everything else off and run that on another smaller supply. Consider a switching regulator supply, rather than a linear regulator supply, to run the rest of the equipment. I know that some of the high power amps are now being built to run on 24-28VDC. This cuts the current consumption in half and they can be run with switching supplies. Let's hope Skip comes aboard here. I know he's had experience with these units. Bob M. ==
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question
Will do, Bob. Thanks! 73 de Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron P/S question Hi Mark, Bypass the gate of the crowbar SCR with .001uF to ground (and put it very close to the gate). As mentioned previously, RF is getting into your crowbar circuit -- this is a fairly well-known problem. 73, Bob, WA9FBO
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900mhz , DTR, 906 to 923.75 MHz FHSS
Brian, Why would you think you can't use an amp (or higher power) on 900 MHz as an Amateur? My repeater station is 150W, with added gain via the antenna system; my mobiles are 12W (but there are 35W units available), and my HT's are 4W units... Mark - N9WYS N9WYS/R 927.5250 (PL 151.4) Joliet, IL -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Brian R. Chapman What if any precludes the use by licensed amateurs of this setuo (excluding the amplifier the other guy mentioned)? It seems under Part 97 rules we could do this!!!Brian nb9e
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Need SWR meter recomendation
Albert, If what you want is an SWR meter - *and nothing else* - you can't beat a Bird 43. They can be found used all the time on a popular auction site (in various levels of condition). In fact, I picked up a Bird 4410 (the multi-range meter) at a great price, and haven't looked back. Yes, the slugs can be on the expensive side, but 43 slugs can be found at most hamfests, too. (Not like for the 4410, which are VERY expensive and not as plentiful. Oh well.) Having said all that, you say you're interested in BUILDING antennas - you'll need an analyzer to do that. I have no experience personally with the MFJ line of meters, but have seen nothing but glowing reports on them. In fact, one ham local to me absolutely loves his meter. The only problem I see with the MJF meters are they are limited to lower UHF (nothing about 460 for the most part) so working at 900 MHz and above will definitely be a problem. My buddy is finding that out now, as he is trying to build/tune antennas for use on my 900 machine. Another option is the VNA's (Vector Network Analyzer) that are offered in such places as the back pages of QST, etc. These work via your computer (either USB or some other connection) and are coming down in price. Do your research (including asking the collective knowledge base here, as you have) and then make your informed decision as to what to buy. Good luck! 73 de Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Albert Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:59 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Need SWR meter recomendation Hey Everyone, I know there is a mix of Hams and commercial guys here so I want to ask all of you about SWR meters. I am a beginning ham and would like to build some VHF and UHF antennas. I am also on a budget. (Isn't everyone these days) I need a decent SWR meter for VHF and UHF use. I don't want a cheap piece of crap, and I can't afford top of the line either. What do you all think of the MFJ products? Other suggestions? Thanks Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1807 - Release Date: 11/23/2008 10:59 AM
[Repeater-Builder] F/S: MICOR Unified Chassis UHF
I have a number of (approx 12) UHF MICOR Unified Chassis Community Repeater stations in various states of disassembly. Some are complete other than cards and channel elements; others have been scavenged to various degrees for parts. I also have two power amplifiers (I believe they are both 75W units). PLEASE KNOW: these are DISASSEMBLED stations - there are NO power supplies, channel elements or cabinets available. Some control cards are also available. Before I try to peddle this stuff at a popular auction site, I figured I'd offer to the readers of these lists first. Photos can be provided upon request, and first inquiries get best choice as to which chassis they can obtain. For what it is worth, I was able to reconstitute one of these into a working GMRS repeater. However, these stations were disassembled when I obtained them, so they are sold as is. NO guarantee is offered. All items are located in the Southwest suburban Chicago area (Joliet), so pick up is probably more of a viable option than shipping. If you are interested, contact me off-list at: n9wys (at) ameritech (dot) net and I will attempt to answer any questions you may have. Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 900mhz , DTR, 906 to 923.75 MHz FHSS
John, That (GMRS License) would be a bit difficult for Mattos – he’s in Brazil… Mark – N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maire-Radios Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:57 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 900mhz , DTR, 906 to 923.75 MHz FHSS ? Get yourself a GMRS license and put up a small 462.5 75 to 462.725 repeater and all of your family could use it. John - Original Message - From: ANDRE mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 900mhz , DTR, 906 to 923.75 MHz FHSS Hi all, I have 2 motorola DTR FHSS 900mhz, and i want to bild a repeater for use in my farm thats near my store , 5miles. I know the max watts DTR are 1W, and i didnt find any Repeater or amp for it. I found 900MHz Smartamp, 10W amp that works on FHSS, so i was wondering, Can i use a DTR + simplex 40second rec + smartamp + antenna? Will this amp (its for data) - 12-103 SmartAmp Bi-Directional 900 MHz: 10 Watt Designed for extending the range of 900 MHz wireless radio devices, this is particularly effective when used with Direct Sequence or Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum. Full output power of 10 W is achieved with only 16 mW input to the amplifier. Above 16 mW input, the SmartAmp™ attenuates the input signal power and maintains the output power typically at 10W. The built-in dynamic power sensor in SmartAmp™ adjusts the Radio Frequency (RF) power output level by reading the input signal power. This Automatic Gain Control (AGC) Technology, Teletronics' patented technology effectively making the RF amplifiers Plug Play delivers the maximum output power at various input levels while keeping the distortion at a minimum. Technical Specifications Smartamp Features: 10 Watt Operating Range: 902 - 928 MHz Operating Mode: Bi-directional, TDD Transmit Gain: 28 dB (can be customized to 33dB) Frequency Response: ± 0.75 dB over operating range Output Power: 10 Watt (+40 dBm) nominal TX Input Power: 500mW Receiver Gain: 12 dB typical ±1 dB Noise Figure: 3.5 dB typical Connectors: N-type, female, 50 Ohm Lightning Protection: Quarter Wave Technology DC Surge Protection: Available Power Consumption: 2A @ 12-15 VDC (100% duty cycle) Operating Temperature: Amplifier: -30 °C to + 70 °C 15V DC injector: -30 °C to + 70 °C will work in this way? or anyone knows a repeater for this digital radios(cheap please) Thanks Mattos No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1791 - Release Date: 11/15/2008 6:57 PM image001.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna Hardware
I wonder if they are metric rather than standard sized u-bolts? This might account for the difference in size... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey The application is a small side-arm bracket. I made it from aluminum square tubing. It got removed from the tower and I needed U-bolts for different project so I borrowed them. Now I can't find that size again. It's pretty obvious that I'll have to settle for a different u-bolt size and re-drill the bracket. But that seems just wrong. Obviously someone made the original ones, but they certainly seem to have disappeared. Am I to assume that companies that fabricate items utilizing u-bolts must special order their needs? And finding this stuff locally is a joke. Home Depot (18 miles away) carries two stainless u-bolts sizes. There used to be a small mom pop hardware (20-miles the other way) that had a few more, but I haven't tried wasting the gasoline to go there and come back empty-handed. My local hardware can order a few sizes, but you've got to get a box of ten. Hence my question of a decent supplier... if one really exists. Chuck WB2EDV
[Repeater-Builder] Want to Trade
I have two Motorola Radius GM300 VHF mobiles (M33GMC29C2AA). My radios as used, but their condition is as new. I will provide photos upon request. These are 16-channel radios. No separation kits. Would like to trade even-up for two M43GMC radios. In order to save bandwidth, please reply off-list to n9wys (at) ameritech (dot) net. Thanks, Mark - N9WYS / WQIV271
RE: [Repeater-Builder] WTD - Moto TLN8381A Micor rx reed - 100.0
Mike, Did you try contacting Ted at MDM Radio? His slogan is, If it's in stock, we've got it. Hehehehe Have him check his stock - I just got one from him for 141.3. And he's a lurker here, so he may have already reached out for you off-list. ;-) 73 de Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of J Roden As the subject says, I'm in need of a 100.0 reed for a Micor receiver. I have a 103.5 or 156.7 to swap if that helps you any. This is the slightly larger reed than the transmit (and other equipment) uses. Please email direct. Thanks Mike/W5JR [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Repeater-Builder] On The Air!
Yes it is, George. Mark - WQIV271/N9WYS (LAG 1970) -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of George Henry Is that affiliated with the LAG (Lakes Area GMRS) Group, Mark? George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 LAG 951 - Original Message - From: n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] The new Joliet East GMRS repeater is ON-THE-AIR! 462.5500 PL 156.7 Thanks to everyone who assisted me with this project - whether it was with hardware, technical or moral support. ;-) Mark - WQIV271 / N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: On The Air!
Thanks Joe! It certainly helps to have the correct parts! That Master Decoder card was the Achilles Heel. Once I got the correct card, it worked like a charm! wink This is why I love the hobby so much... I have NO formal electronics training - all of mine has been self-taught. Yet I was able to reconstruct and understand the operation of the station well enough to troubleshoot most of the issues and then tune-up the station myself. FWIW - photos are posted at the R-B Groups site, in a photo album labeled N9WYS Repeaters. Mark - N9WYS/WQIV271 -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Mark, That is great news. You are to be complimented for not giving up on the sometimes difficult Micor. 73, Joe - WA7JAW -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The new Joliet East GMRS repeater is ON-THE-AIR! 462.5500 PL 156.7 Thanks to everyone who assisted me with this project - whether it was with hardware, technical or moral support. ;-) Mark - WQIV271 / N9WYS Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1712 - Release Date: 10/7/2008 9:41 AM
[Repeater-Builder] On The Air!
The new Joliet East GMRS repeater is ON-THE-AIR! 462.5500 PL 156.7 Thanks to everyone who assisted me with this project - whether it was with hardware, technical or moral support. ;-) Mark - WQIV271 / N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] On The Air!
John, It utilizes a standard 5 MHz offset. Located in Joliet, IL. This is that Unified Chassis MICOR Community Repeater I've been battling with for the past few months. (Photos are posted at the R-B Yahoogroup site.) Mark - N9WYS/WQIV271 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of John Transue Mark, What is the offset? Where is it located? JohnT -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n9wys The new Joliet East GMRS repeater is ON-THE-AIR! 462.5500 PL 156.7 Thanks to everyone who assisted me with this project - whether it was with hardware, technical or moral support. ;-) Mark - WQIV271 / N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Coax Help
Mike, Are there any other markings on the cable? Specifically, I'd be looking for the following: FSJ1-50A This is 1/4 Superflex - about the same size as RG-8X... Velocity factor for this (FSJ1-50A) cable is 84% http://awapps.commscope.com/catalog/product_details.aspx?id=1342 Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n7zef Howdy; I was given today 2 pieces of mini-hardline marked Andrews Type 204909. It is the size of mini-8. I think this is 50 ohm, but what would be the velocity factor of it? I want to use it to make lines for 146.7/146.1 and 443.3/448.3 between radio and cavitys. Putting on the ends, does it take anything special, I would like to use solder on type id I could. Appreciate any help I may get... 73 Mike - N7ZEF Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1702 - Release Date: 10/1/2008 9:05 AM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Coax Help
No problem on the link, Mike. Glad it as the same stuff! A 1/4-wave cable on an open circuit introduces a short... If I remember correctly (and I'm sure if I'm wrong others will correct me!) you need a 1/2-wave cable between cans. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Mike Reed Yes, it does have that marking. Appricate the link. Not to be redundant, is the length I need to use is 1/4 wave for connection to cavitys, right? 73 Mike - N7ZEF - Original Message - From: n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:01 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Coax Help Mike, Are there any other markings on the cable? Specifically, I'd be looking for the following: FSJ1-50A This is 1/4 Superflex - about the same size as RG-8X... Velocity factor for this (FSJ1-50A) cable is 84% http://awapps.commscope.com/catalog/product_details.aspx?id=1342 Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n7zef Howdy; I was given today 2 pieces of mini-hardline marked Andrews Type 204909. It is the size of mini-8. I think this is 50 ohm, but what would be the velocity factor of it? I want to use it to make lines for 146.7/146.1 and 443.3/448.3 between radio and cavitys. Putting on the ends, does it take anything special, I would like to use solder on type id I could. Appreciate any help I may get... 73 Mike - N7ZEF Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1702 - Release Date: 10/1/2008 9:05 AM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1702 - Release Date: 10/1/2008 9:05 AM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
The latest and FINAL update on this project... Today, a new-version Master Decoder card (TRN 6165A) arrived via mail. (**MANY thanks, Gerald!!**) You know, it's AMAZING how well the radio works when it has all the right parts in it! I have 700 Hz of PL deviation and 4.7kHz max voice deviation. It's playing just like mother M designed it to!!! Thanks to everyone who helped with this project, whether it was with hardware, schematics, suggestions or moral support. The machine should be on-the-air within the next two weeks. 73 de Mark - N9WYS / WQIV271
RE: [Repeater-Builder] coax length
Collin, A guy local to me (WD9HSY) sells them - rated at 200W - on a certain auction site. Normal cost is about $59.00. If you do a search for dummy load it will pop up for you. Although not costing an arm and a leg these might qualify for a finger or two... ;-) They are very nice loads... NOTE: I have no pecuniary interest in his business - just answering an inquiry regarding a source for dummy loads. 73, Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, Very well then, I guess I need to be shopping for a good load. Any suggestions? Any under an arm and a leg? What do the good loads use for a resistor? I was under the impression that a non inductive resistor was the purest resistance you could get. I have been wrong many times in the past. Thanks, Collin
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Well, Gerald sent me the schematic for the Master Decoder modules I have. I compared connections on the card I have (thanks to his schematic) against what the newer card provides. Here are the comparisons: Pin 1 - Ground = OK Pin 2 - PL Tone to Modulator = OK Pin 3 - To Audio Amplifier on Audio Board - Not called out on newer card - No Connection on newer card Pin 4 - PL Disable (Receiver #1, to Audio Board) = Binary PL Out on newer card Pin 5 - From PL Disable Switch = Not called out on newer card - No Connection on newer card Pin 6 - From Volume Control = Not called out on newer card - No Connection on newer card Pin 7 - PL Tone Out (to 4-User Module) = OK Pin 10 - Quieting Indicator = Binary PL Gate Key on newer card (This signal is on Pin 19 on newer card) Pin 11 - Detector Emitter Bias = OK Pin 12 - A+ = OK Pin 16 - PL Indicator = OK Pin 17 - Switched Ground from 4-User Control = Not called out on newer card - Tone PL Detect on newer card Pin 18 - Detector Base Bias = OK Pin 22 - PL Tone Input from Discriminator = Binary PL Retransmit Input on newer card (This signal is on Pin 23 on newer card) Pin 23 - Receiver Audio Switch on Audio Board = Not called out on newer card - Tone PL Retransmit Input on newer card Pin 24 - Exciter Ground = Not called out on newer card - No Connection on newer card As you can see, there are a LOT of signals that would need to be re-routed for this card to work properly... and others that appear not to be needed at all. I wonder if it is worth the effort. If I can't find the proper card, I think I'll have to resort to an external repeater controller/tone board, like either a Zetron or a Com-Spec get the station to operate properly. That is if I can find the interconnect wiring diagram. So, I ask again - if ANYONE has a TRN6165A Master Decoder card they are not using and would like to put to good use, PLEASE CONTACT ME. Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Yep - I see the same as you, Eric. That's why I continue to wonder about these cards. I originally bought 14 chassis altogether, and was provided with about 9 of the same Master Decoder card. In the beginning - the world was dark and without form... sorry I digress. In the beginning, I got the chassis and cards from a purveyor who had them stacked in the corner of his place. Can't vouch for where they came from, or if they were even assembled and working prior to that (some of them were already victims of parts scavengers) and to be honest, I can't remember if he did, either. So since the very start I've been operating on the assumption that these cards worked in the chassis I have -- probably an incorrect assumption, I'm beginning to believe. However, the bigger problem is NOBODY seems to be responding as to whether they have either the later version cards OR the schematic for the cards I have. Until I can confirm something (one way or another) I'm at an impasse. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Mark, Now, I'm the one who is confused! I just looked at a UHF community repeater and noticed that it has a TRN6421APR backplane. However, it is equipped with a TRN6165A Master Decoder. I therefore wonder if the TLN5803A Master Decoder you have even belongs to that machine. I confirmed, as you did, that Pin 24 on the TRN6165A Master Decoder has no connection. Is it possible that the previous owner simply stuffed the chassis with leftover pull-outs? The TRN6421APR backplane PCB has the following module assignments, right to left: 1 - Timeout Timer 2 - Station Control 3 - Squelch Gate 4 - Single Tone Decoder 5 - Master Decoder 6 - Four-User Control 7 - Ditto 8 - Ditto 9 - Ditto 10 - Diode Logic 11 - Multi-TPL Encoder 12 - Multi DPL Encoder I have no manuals for a Community Repeater, so I do not have any means to follow the signal path via schematics. That said, it seems to me that a Multi-TPL Encoder in Slot 11 would generate the unique PL tone that the repeater would transmit. You did not state if such a module was installed in your station, so I wonder if that is why your station is not encoding the tone. As others have noted, it is always preferable to filter out and then regenerate a PL tone, rather than allow it to pass through a repeater. The reason for that is two-fold: Some cheap user radios have very poor tone purity, and may be difficult to decode, and some user radios have widely-varying tone deviation that range from not enough to double or triple the proper level. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9wys Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:04 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project Eric, --- (snip) --- At one point in the build, I *thought* I had this problem resolved... but apparently what was happening was the PL was bleeding through from the receive to the transmitter. That is why I was able to talk it off. After looking at the station operation with a service monitor, I am certain that it is NOT encoding PL for transmit. I have no PL at Pin 2 of the Master Decoder, which is what feeds the PL tone to the exciter/modulator. For everyone: At one point, Eric referred me to an eBay auction, listing among other things a Master Decoder card of the same part number as the ones I have. Those cards were in an MSY chassis... which makes me wonder if there is a fundamental difference on the MSY-version versus the MICOR-version of this card. My examination of the card leads me to believe this is the case, I just need to verify this. Eric, the part number stamped on the backplane is: TRN6421A, and the number on the Master Decoder card is: TLN5803A Thanks everyone! Mark - N9WYS / WQIV271
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Hi, Joe. No they were not equipped with either, that I can tell. At least I was not provided with any of those cards. And I called Motorola, the manuals are all NLA... OK on calling - I think I have your TX number somewhere in the message archives. Will be working until Friday - my next day off. What's a good time to try to call? (Remember the 2-hour time difference... wink ) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Mark, Sorry to hear that you are still fighting this problem. I think we were on the right track when this kinda ended last month, in that what you need to find is a Motrac series community repeater manual that might show the TLN5803A Master Decoder. I have not been able to turn one up yet. I do have one question for you about the original configuration in these stations. Did they originally have a Diode Logic and a Multiple TPL Encoder card installed in them? I am sure you have answered this question already, but I really do not remember. If you still have my number, give me a call and we can talk on the phone. I have misplaced your phone number. 73, Joe - WA7JAW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Thanks Gerald!! I think that'll get me headed in the right direction... Yes, if you can get a clean copy of the schematic (maybe have someone scan it and send it to me via e-mail??) that'll help **immensely**! 73 de Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Gerald Pelnar Mark, I have a manual for a 68P1056A35 MOTRAC C74MSY-3101AY and BY community repeater. It shows the BY uses a TLN1684A master decode. I didn't come forward before because I didn't see that number mentioned. part # TLN5803A is the kit number for the master decode board in a TLN1684A module. Pin 24 on the card should be exciter gnd for the xmit pl level pot. If I can get a decent copy, I'll send you what I have. Gerald Pelnar WD0FYF McPherson, Ks
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Eric, The original thread started 08/11... and (forgive me for the bandwidth usage) I captured most of it here. I did take the liberty to edit out some of the stuff I felt was unimportant or non-productive. At one point in the build, I *thought* I had this problem resolved... but apparently what was happening was the PL was bleeding through from the receive to the transmitter. That is why I was able to talk it off. After looking at the station operation with a service monitor, I am certain that it is NOT encoding PL for transmit. I have no PL at Pin 2 of the Master Decoder, which is what feeds the PL tone to the exciter/modulator. For everyone: At one point, Eric referred me to an eBay auction, listing among other things a Master Decoder card of the same part number as the ones I have. Those cards were in an MSY chassis... which makes me wonder if there is a fundamental difference on the MSY-version versus the MICOR-version of this card. My examination of the card leads me to believe this is the case, I just need to verify this. Eric, the part number stamped on the backplane is: TRN6421A, and the number on the Master Decoder card is: TLN5803A Thanks everyone! Mark - N9WYS / WQIV271 -Copied Thread- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n9wys Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:26 AM More information about this project. I have the station working - receiving, decoding proper PL tone, repeating, transmitting audio, etc. The only thing it is NOT doing is encoding tone for transmit. (A reminder - this is a Community Repeater MICOR chassis, NOT the standard repeater chassis.) Anyway - from what I can tell, the Master Control module is NOT sending tone out to the modulator. The problem I have is this: the manual supplement I have shows a different Master Control module that what I have. My modules are not IC-based, the ones on the manual are. Therefore, I believe the schematic and operation for the module I have is completely different than that in the manual. Does anyone have an earlier issue of the Community Repeater manual - 68P81025E55 (probably revision A, since mine is a B)? *ALL* I think I need are the pages pertaining to the Master Control Module - part #TLN5803A. (Other part numbers may be: TLN8780A or TLN1684A - these are numbers stamped on the flange of the card - the first number above was printed right on the circuit board.) The module referenced in my manual is TRN6165A. For those with a manual - I am seeing tone at Pin 7 (Tone PL Out) but not at Pin 2 (Tone or Binary PL to Modulator) on the Master Control module. I tried merely jumpering Pin 7 to Pin 2 - doesn't work. Because the schematic and board layout is completely different, I have no reference to be able to chase signal through the circuit. I'm also wondering if a required jumper is missing or a jumper is improperly installed on my Master Control card. Thanks! Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:18 PM Mark, What is the number stamped in black ink directly on the PCB of the master control module? I know you recently received the community repeater manual, and that manual doesn't contain the information on that module? Odd... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Eric, The Master Control module I have is: TLN5803A The module referenced in my manual is: TRN6165A. The manual's module is definitely a newer design - it is IC-based (two chips on the board). My modules are pre-IC -- no chips at all. I've also seen cover designs for (what I believe is) an earlier version of the Comm. Rptr. manual supplement, so there is at least one version prior to the one I have... Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 12:59 PM Before the last hiatus, I was attempting to find a schematic for a MICOR Master Control module, part # TLN5803A. I still am in need of it. Does anybody have a first edition MICOR Community Repeater manual supplement that may have this schematic in it? My manual is a later issue, and doesn't not contain what I need. I would be greatly appreciative if someone could locate this and scan it for me! This module schematic may also be in a MOTRAC manual, if that helps anyone in locating this module for me. (I have found the module installed in a MOTRAC repeater.) Thanks! Mark - N9WYS From: n9wys [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:48 PM Everyone, today I tried contacting Motorola parts for a manual and/or schematic for the Master Decoder module I have, Part #TLN5803A. Needless to say, navigating Motorola's call-handling system was a real trip. First I ended up with someone in Cell Phones, then someone in Recreational Radio. I finally ended up with Don in Commercial Radio... Don put life and limb at risk by venturing into the old archives. Unfortunately they no longer have any manuals available which refer to this module
[Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Well, I got this thing all reassembled and tuned up on the new frequency pair. a fellow ham (who used to work for the local Motorola shop) came over with his service monitor and we tuned and tested the system. It is still not passing PL to the transmitter. Some PL bleeds through from the receive, but I know that is not correct - nor is it of sufficient level. (I only get about 90 Hz of deviation with this PL.) We took a CLOSE look at the Master Decoder card itself and it appears to be configured VERY differently than the later version depicted in my manual. For example, the later version card (based on two ICs) has no connection on Pin 24 to the backplane. My card (an earlier version with discreet components) appears to have some sort of signal (audio) on Pin 24. So I need desperately to find either the manual pages pertaining to my older Master Decoder card, or I need a newer version card. If ANYONE has either of these, I'd be much obliged of you would contact me. The issue HAS to be the Master Decoder card - it is not passing any PL to the exciter. The problem is, I have about 8 of the same vintage Master Decoder card, so changing them out is not resolving the issue. For the time being, I am going to put the machine on the air as-is. it works just fine, other than it will have to be CSQ receive for all users. I'll decide later on whether I will put in a tone panel, or continue to operate it as it is now. Mark - N9WYS / WQIV271
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
Nate - I still remember the album sleeve for the Rolling Stones' Let It Bleed album... Lower right corner: THIS RECORD SHOULD BE PLAYED LOUD Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Bob M. wrote: He was into the hard rock stuff in the 80s and his hearing has been poor since then. (snip) And then of course there's also a bit of that accursed evil rock and roll in my life... I try to keep it turned down, but every once in a while you just have to go with ... I hear if you mix it with a little Chopin and Bach, it all works out okay in the end. (GRIN) If it's too loud, you're too old! Rock on, Nate WY0X
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola EP450
Thanks, Givan! That’s the info I was looking for – now knowing that, I’m hoping that the CP200 CPS will program them… Mark – N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Givan George Mark, The EP450 is the equivalent of the Motorola CP200 or so. It is programmed with CPS The EP450 is for the Latin America market. Regards Givan -[ Received Mail Content ]-- Subject : [Repeater-Builder] Motorola EP450 Date : Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:17:15 -0500 From : Mark n9wys To : Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com I'm looking for info on this radio, such as what models it might be equivalent to, etc. A friend of mine provided me with one, and I'm curious to get it working. His company received them from one of their plants in Central America with the idea of using them here, but when they found out the radios were not type accepted they tossed them. All I got was the radio itself, so eventually I'll be looking for a charger and possibly new battery. that is IF I can get this thing programmed and working on the 70cm band. I realize this radio is not type accepted by the FCC, but for use in the Amateur bands this is not an issue. Any suggestions and assistance are appreciated. Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola EP450
Just did. thanks for reminding me, Darrell. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of jistabout Mark, you might try asking on the Batlabs forum: http://batboard.batlabs.com - Darrell/KA7BTV
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor TPN1110A power supply parts ID
FWIW - I repaired several SpectraTAC receiver drawer power supplies about a year or so ago, and those huge caps were still available from Motorola. But they WERE very expensive - if I remember correctly, I bought enough caps to repair two complete chassis power supplies (maybe 8 of them total) and the cost was well over $100. Hi-fi??? C'mon - you're dating the entire group now! hehehehe Some of the younger whippersnappers here probably don't even know what a hi-fi is, or an album for that... OK, I think I'll sulk off to the old folks home now. (AKA: Casino) ;-p Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Bob M. Those big aluminum electrolytic caps with screw terminals are getting extinct, and if you DO find one, it'll likely be expensive. You can get something quite smaller in size but the same or larger electrical value. Go with that. Stuff some stiff foam rubber or even some wood slats around the bottom so it will fit into the original clamp. That's what a lot of the hi-fi repair guys are doing now. A lot cheaper for something that has much better specs. The diodes are probably very similar to what an automobile alternator uses. Of course, finding the exact replacements could still be difficult. They're probably (minimally) 50V, 50A, but I'd look for something a bit bigger. The supply is good for 25A at 14V nominal. According to the schematic, the anodes (the ends with the arrows) are connected to the case and ground. Push-in diodes came both ways, mainly because many alternators use three of each inside, and they can only ground the case of three of them. You could also replace the diodes and bracket with a piece of aluminum heatsink material and use stud-mount diodes. Again, observe polarity otherwise you'll have to insulate the cases or the heatsink (probably not a good idea to have that sitting at +15V). Bob M. ==
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola EP450
I'm looking for info on this radio, such as what models it might be equivalent to, etc. A friend of mine provided me with one, and I'm curious to get it working. His company received them from one of their plants in Central America with the idea of using them here, but when they found out the radios were not type accepted they tossed them. All I got was the radio itself, so eventually I'll be looking for a charger and possibly new battery. that is IF I can get this thing programmed and working on the 70cm band. I realize this radio is not type accepted by the FCC, but for use in the Amateur bands this is not an issue. Any suggestions and assistance are appreciated. Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] EF Johnson
OFF-LIST REPLY Tom, We had EFJ repeaters (VHF, UHF and 800) in the ITECS trailer... They are pieces of shit! We NEVER could get them to work reliably, even with EFJ field technicians offering their support. We ended up pulling them our and replacing them with mobile radios. Just one experience, but then again - there are 9 ITECS trailers statewide and they ALL are experiencing the same issues we did. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tgundo2003 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:10 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] EF Johnson Anyone on the list have comments/expierences on the New EF Johnson P25 capable repeaters? Good, no good? Tune to the ham bands ok? Reliability? Thanks!!! Tom W9SRV Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1663 - Release Date: 9/9/2008 7:04 PM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] EF Johnson
My sincerest apologies to the group. This was supposed to go PRIVATE e-mail, and obviously did not. Again, my apologies for the language used within. -Original Message- From: n9wys OFF-LIST REPLY Tom, We had EFJ repeaters (VHF, UHF and 800) in the ITECS trailer... --- snip ---
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSF5000 Tone Issue, PL 131.8 opens cor, non 131.8 keys repeater but no audio
Mathew, Try programming it for tone only control (I believe that is option S in both Repeater Control and Receiver Control. Mode Information screen) - this way even if the station hears a carrier, it wont react to it. I'm planning on doing that with my station - right now it's set for SC Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n9lv That is what I thought was wrong first of all, tried it both ways and no change either way. I thought for sure when I wired up the controller that it was fine, but not sure when the other repeater came into the picture. I am going to check the switches today and see if there is anything there. Mathew --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check to see if Zone 2 Function 5 is turned on. If on, it could let a COR signal get to your repeater without having the correct CTCSS frequency decoded. 73 - Jim W5ZIT
[Repeater-Builder] RE: [gmrsrepeater] THANKS!!!
You're correct Greg... that's exactly what it is doing. It gets the tone from the Four User Control Module, then the Master Decoder passes THAT to the exciter. My bad for not explaining it correctly. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Forrest Mark: The repeater should not be passing PL from its input to output. The repeater should strip the incoming PL off the audio, and then a card in the repeater (or your community repeater panel) should regenerate a PL tone. This is mixed with the transmit audio and then transmitted. Maybe that is what you meant. Greg PL and did some tests. Guess what? The repeater is working as it is supposed to be - and it IS passing PL tone!! National GMRS Repeater/User DatabaseYahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] M-PA manual
Anyone have (perchance) a copy of LBI38377 - Operator's Manual for the M-PA portable? I was just given one (a UHF Systems radio) and have I no info on it at all. Thanks, Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Trunking Features w/o Trunking?
Bob, And I believe that individual radios can be set to MUTE momentarily when PTT is pressed (during MDC transmission) so the user doesn't get a beep when their PTT is pressed - this will eliminate your concern for police officers giving up their positions etc. Yet you can still have it (PTT beep during MDC) enabled for the dog catchers, etc. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:42 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Trunking Features w/o Trunking? At 09:47 PM 08/26/08, you wrote: At 8/26/2008 21:14, you wrote: Thanks for the reply Eric, First, it's that dam, loud BEEP when the PTT is pressed and Pre is programmed. So THAT'S what I hear coming from the FD/PD radios inside the Comm. tent at the marathon. Yeah it's annoying alright, I can't even hear what's coming out of the radios from where I sit. But I sure hear that tone at the beginning of each transmission. If they'd just use 1/2 second or so of audio delay on the TX audio, they could stick the data burst in front of the audio without losing anything. Bob NO6B Bob - listen to Glendora City PD Dispatch on 154.845 - whoever set up that system did a nice job. It's a highband repeater with MDC mute, so the other radios never hear any more than a very slight tink at the front of a carrier, yet the MDC data appears on the dispatcher display. MDC is a two-tone AFSK system. Mark and space tones are 1200 Hz and 1800 Hz. The unit ID is limited to 4 digits. More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDC-1200 Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Trunking Features w/o Trunking?
Jim, Skipp and all... I wonder if he is confusing trunking with digitized audio? There have been MANY stories published regarding digitized audio that can, and have, turned people away from trunked systems utilizing digitized audio... I have personal experience with one system that has digitized audio and it makes my hair stand on end. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:57 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Trunking Features w/o Trunking? wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do so many people think trunking is evil For many people it's a major change to an unfamiliar animal and the nature of the human beast is to fear the unknown (unfamiliar). I must admit I feared (was suspicious of) trunking when I first heard about it works. The pivot point for me occurred when changing my position from a regular conventional radio user to a repeater system owner operator. Trunking system operation clearly solves an incredible amount of everyday problems experienced using a conventional CTCSS (PL) or DCS (DPL) radio format. Had trunking arrived much earlier on the scene I might still have hair... even colored hair from the much reduced stress level. :-) If you or anyone else has such bad experiences with trunking, it means you have been dealing with a system that was VERY poorly installed and maintained. PERIOD! Insert LOUD APPLAUSE here! [(Latin applaudere, to strike upon, clap) is primarily the expression of approval by the act of clapping] (and I've seen a LOT of bad ones!) Amen! The issue with some bad trunking systems seems to be the lack of understanding where the serious problems occur. Not only is the technical side of the rf equipment still around but you must deal with two other layers... planning and administration which is not something most people want to do. However, if you compare the hours of saved resources using a trunking system the owner/users are leagues ahead of conventional radio operation. cheers, s. skipp025 at yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] De-Sense and Circulator Question
OK, I found the message. now the question: what aluminum tape is best for this? Or is there a best tape? I just got a Motorola duplexer for a 462 repeater I'm building, and it has the holes/slots in it. (And yes, it *IS* a MICOR.) Of the various types of tape available, does the adhesive need to be conductive? Or is it good enough for the foil to merely cover the openings? For example, I was browsing Mouser's choices of tape HERE http://www.mouser.com/catalog/635/2090.pdf ... http://www.mouser.com/catalog/635/2090.pdf I am interested in these tapes: 3M 425 or 427 (adhesive conductivity not listed) 3M 1170 (listed: conductive adhesive) Although I'm thinking at these costs, they must ALL have conductive adhesives... 425 (1 wide) costs $20.93/roll; 427 is $61.95/roll; and 1170 is $46.07. If anybody has insights, I'd be interested to hear! Thanks, Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon As I and several others have noted earlier, the Motorola T-1500-series duplexers are barely adequate even with a 5 MHz split. Nevertheless, Motorola shipped thousands of Micor repeater stations with this duplexer, and they worked fine. But, keep in mind that a Micor 75-100 watt PA was a very good design and far more stable and noise-free than most aftermarket power amplifiers. The crystal-controlled Micor exciters are inherently less noisy than the synthesized exciters used in newer and less-expensive repeaters. The extremely sharp, crystal-controlled Micor receivers were better able to shrug off nearby carriers or noise than many- if not most- modern synthesized receivers. Even if your T-1500-series duplexer is optimally tuned, you can possibly improve its performance a bit by using adhesive-backed aluminum tape to cover the slots where the loop and probe adjustments penetrate the side walls of the cavities. The metal tape will eliminate a possible leakage path through the slots. Your jumper cables should be made of RG-400/U or RG-214/U cable with the proper connectors on each end- no adapters. Crimped-on, silver-plated connectors are more reliable than those that are soldered or clamped.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Rackmount clips/screws
My 2¢ worth... I have heard these referred to as Speed Nuts. McMaster-Carr shows the ones I am familiar with in their catalog, calling them U-style clip-on nuts. (I found them by doing a search for speed nuts.) These are designed to use sheet metal-type screws, which is what I usually see in radio cabinet rails. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of no6b At 8/22/2008 23:50, you wrote: The clips are called tinerman clips and I have found them at auto parts stores but I think they are a little spendey. The ones that are threaded for machine screws are called cage nuts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cage_nut 10-32 would be the best thread size to use, since it's a defacto 19 rack mount standard. I've also seen racks tapped with 12-24, but that screw size isn't as easy to find. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] We all Love Super 33+ - Was Antenna connectors sealing instructions
OK, let's all open our hymnals to page 85 and sing, What a friend we have in 3M. ;-) Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Cort Buffington Note the common thread here. Almost everyone has 3M 33+ in their recipe. As religious arguments go -- it looks as if this is one thing we all agree on :) I just spend a few hours cleaning all of the old tape off of the wiring harnesses on TWO DB-420s. I removed the old, cleaned things up, replaced it with 33+ and placed aluminum foil tape over it to deflect the UV. While not the connectors, I followed the same principles so many have mentioned here for connectors, stretch it, then ease up on the tension when you're about done wrapping.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Everyone, today I tried contacting Motorola parts for a manual and/or schematic for the Master Decoder module I have, Part #TLN5803A. Needless to say, navigating Motorola's call-handling system was a real trip. First I ended up with someone in Cell Phones, then someone in Recreational Radio. I finally ended up with Don in Commercial Radio... Don put life and limb at risk by venturing into the old archives. Unfortunately they no longer have any manuals available which refer to this module. :-( He WAS able to give me the manual numbers for the MICOR manuals, but I already have them all. When I asked about the MSY-series station manuals, he said those have been NLA since 1976 or so... So I'm here again to plead with those who have old libraries of Motorola manuals -- PLEASE check your stash to see if you may have anything for the MSY-series community repeater. (Possible model number C74MSY-3101BY or similar - the BY is the key here, I think.) I have seen a older MSY-series station on eBay with this card in the chassis, so hopefully someone out there has the manual for it. I *REALLY* need this schematic to get my repeater going... Thanks, Mark - N9WYS / WQIV271 -Original Message- From: Eric Lemmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark, It's a long shot, but you might try calling Motorola Parts ID at 800-422-4210 and asking for the publication number that covers the TLN5803A. Coincidentally, I found a TLN5803A listed as one of the modules in a C74MSY-3101BY station on eBay. I just happen to have an MSY manual, but it applies to the BT repeater; I'm guessing that the BY is a community repeater. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: n9wys [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Apparently Kevin has shut the list down for a while... :-( Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: n9wys [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric, The Master Control module I have is: TLN5803A The module referenced in my manual is: TRN6165A. The manual's module is definitely a newer design - it is IC-based (two chips on the board). My modules are pre-IC -- no chips at all. I've also seen cover designs for (what I believe is) an earlier version of the Comm. Rptr. manual supplement, so there is at least one version prior to the one I have... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Mark, What is the number stamped in black ink directly on the PCB of the master control module? I know you recently received the community repeater manual, and that manual doesn't contain the information on that module? Odd... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
[Repeater-Builder] Glad to be back!
Well I, for one, am glad to see the list has been resurrected! Thanks Scott and Kevin - not only for bringing back THE definitive location for repeater building information, but for caring enough to spend your personal time administering and moderating the list. As far as I'm concerned, your efforts are greatly appreciated! Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OK, back to work...
This module schematic may also be in a MOTRAC manual, if that helps anyone in locating this module for me. (I have found the module installed in a MOTRAC repeater.) Thanks, Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Mark Before the list hiatus, I was attempting to find a schematic for a MICOR Master Control module, part # TLN5803A. I still am in need of it. Does anybody have a first edition MICOR Community Repeater manual supplement that may have this schematic in it? My manual is a later issue, and doesn't not contain what I need. I would be greatly appreciative if someone could locate this and scan it for me! Thanks! Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] WTD - 220 bandpass cavity
Mike, There's one on a well-known Internet auction site... Item #290253777043 http://cgi.ebay.com/TX-RX-220-Mhz-Repeater-Duplexer-REAR-Model-28-52-02A_W0QQitemZ290253777043QQihZ019QQcategoryZ96966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Not sure if you want to spend the $800 he is asking for the Buy It Now, or what the reserve amount is. But it hasn't been met yet. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello RBites I think I posted this previously, but still lloking for a 222 MHz bandpass cavity/filter. It is going in front of a pre-amp, so it does not have to handle any TX power. Direct replies appreciated. Thanks Mike / W5JR / Milton, GA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Yes... The station is a Community Repeater - not the conventional MICOR repeater that most are familiar with. In other words, it uses a different backplane and different card configuration than a regular repeater. The primary PL card is called a Four User Control Module and can have up to four Vibrasponder reeds in it (as does mine). The Master Control card does the PL encoding for transmit. If you have the MICOR Community Repeater manual supplement, please check through it and you'll see what I am referring to. The problem seems to be with the Master Control module not sending the tone out on Pin 2. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of godofrepeaters Are you sure you have the encode board plugged in with a reed plugged in? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More information about this project. I have the station working - receiving, decoding proper PL tone, repeating, transmitting audio, etc. The only thing it is NOT doing is encoding tone for transmit. (A reminder - this is a Community Repeater MICOR chassis, NOT the standard repeater chassis.) Anyway - from what I can tell, the Master Control module is NOT sending tone out to the modulator. The problem I have is this: the manual supplement I have shows a different Master Control module that what I have. My modules are not IC-based, the ones on the manual are. Therefore, I believe the schematic and operation for the module I have is completely different than that in the manual. Does anyone have an earlier issue of the Community Repeater manual - 68P81025E55 (probably revision A, since mine is a B)? *ALL* I think I need are the pages pertaining to the Master Control Module - part #TLN5803A. (Other part numbers may be: TLN8780A or TLN1684A - these are numbers stamped on the flange of the card - the first number above was printed right on the circuit board.) The module referenced in my manual is TRN6165A. For those with a manual - I am seeing tone at Pin 7 (Tone PL Out) but not at Pin 2 (Tone or Binary PL to Modulator) on the Master Control module. I tried merely jumpering Pin 7 to Pin 2 - doesn't work. Because the schematic and board layout is completely different, I have no reference to be able to chase signal through the circuit. I'm also wondering if a required jumper is missing or a jumper is improperly installed on my Master Control card. Thanks! Mark - N9WYS Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.1/1607 - Release Date: 8/12/2008 7:19 AM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Not in those words (PL encoder) no... and I understand that. I am keying the repeater with an external source (AKA: HT) that is encoding PL. The Master Control module is NOT passing PL to the modulator on Pin 2. THIS is my problem. I need a schematic for the Master Control module that I have in my possession so I can troubleshoot further. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of sgreact47 A community repeater has NO PL Encoder.. The PL from the receiver is decoded and the PL tone is low pass filtered and passed to the transmitter PL Encode input by the Master Decoder card in the station. So, if you key the station locally there is NO PL Encode. Also, there is NO PL tone on the tail either. n9wys wrote: Yes... The station is a Community Repeater - not the conventional MICOR repeater that most are familiar with. In other words, it uses a different backplane
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
More information about this project. I have the station working - receiving, decoding proper PL tone, repeating, transmitting audio, etc. The only thing it is NOT doing is encoding tone for transmit. (A reminder - this is a Community Repeater MICOR chassis, NOT the standard repeater chassis.) Anyway - from what I can tell, the Master Control module is NOT sending tone out to the modulator. The problem I have is this: the manual supplement I have shows a different Master Control module that what I have. My modules are not IC-based, the ones on the manual are. Therefore, I believe the schematic and operation for the module I have is completely different than that in the manual. Does anyone have an earlier issue of the Community Repeater manual - 68P81025E55 (probably revision A, since mine is a B)? *ALL* I think I need are the pages pertaining to the Master Control Module - part #TLN5803A. (Other part numbers may be: TLN8780A or TLN1684A - these are numbers stamped on the flange of the card - the first number above was printed right on the circuit board.) The module referenced in my manual is TRN6165A. For those with a manual - I am seeing tone at Pin 7 (Tone PL Out) but not at Pin 2 (Tone or Binary PL to Modulator) on the Master Control module. I tried merely jumpering Pin 7 to Pin 2 - doesn't work. Because the schematic and board layout is completely different, I have no reference to be able to chase signal through the circuit. I'm also wondering if a required jumper is missing or a jumper is improperly installed on my Master Control card. Thanks! Mark - N9WYS
[Repeater-Builder] EF Johnson portable conversion to ham
I acquired a pair of EF Johnson Viking CK 8571 (intrinsically safe) series portable radios. These are in the 900 MHz band, and I'd like to try to convert them to ham use - unless this would be an exercise in futility. The manual was available online, and after some reading I see that Johnson programs their radio frequencies via a Channel Number list rather than by actual frequency. So before I plunk down money for a RIB, cable and software, I'm wondering if anyone has tried to do something similar before? For example, would one need to hack the channel number list to make this thing work, or are the appropriate frequencies available in the channel number list? (I thought I read where some of the Kenwood radios operated this way.) I guess I don't have enough projects going on without starting this. hehehehe But the radios were given to me, so I figured I'd give it a shot.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB Product 4 Bay Antenna
Don, I'd think it's broadbanded enough to be able to work well at 444. The antenna I have on my 444.5500 repeater (although supposedly tuned to the ham band) is actually a 450 - 470 MHz, 4-bay dipole itself. and it does VERY well, even with the modified phasing harness. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of ka9qjg ,_._, A recent storm damaged my repeater Ant 444.750 it was made By Antenex FG-4505 5 db Gain, They tuned to Xmit Freq. I also have a G-6 that was hit By Lightning that I could Repair. But in the Rafters of the garage I found a Ant I must of bought a long time ago at a Hamfest it is a DB Product TDE-7260 4 Bay 450-470 Mhz My question would the DB Product which of course is made very well , Perform as well or betters then the 2 Above at the same Height, Coax and SWR , I did look around in the Group Messages and found info on the 2 Meter DB Brand but not the 440 Thanks Don KA9QJG
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Registered Sex Offenders
Bill, I believe the actual citation is 47 http://www.dinf.ne.jp/doc/english/Us_Eu/ada_e/telcom_act/47/308.htm U.S.C. § 308(b). The key words in this is where it reads (emphasis added): All applications for station licenses, or modifications or renewals thereof, shall set forth such facts as the Commission by regulation may prescribe as to the citizenship, character, and financial, technical, and other qualifications of the applicant to operate the station; Here is what the League has on the FCCs Character Reference: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/12/06/101/?nc=1 Mark N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Bill Hudson Paul Plack - Please site the law that forbids felons from having ham radio licenses. You act like you speak with authority - I'd like you to demonstrate it for me please. Bill - W6CBS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Paul Plack If they're registered, that means they were convicted at one time, and probably have some condition of a parole or early release which prohibits contact with youth. I would ask the local police to see if that is the case. If it is, simply record the contacts, and ham radio will be the least of their concerns. If they were convicted of felonies, it's possible the FCC doesn't know, and would revoke their licenses if notified. 73, Paul, AE4KR
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Hum on MSR200 Receiver
It just doesn't know the words ;-p Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Bill Howdy group. I have a Motorola MSR2000 repeater on the ham bands that I maintain. VHF 147.32 in Austin (Oak Hill)Texas. It has developed a hum on the receive signal. I know it's the receiver as there is no hum when the machine ID's with no input from the receiver. The hum has been getting worse and now I need to take a look. I have schematics and instruments. I'm asking to see if anyone has seen this kind of issue before. I run a 114.8 PL but it sounds more like 60Hz not 114 hz I'll have to look at the audio and measure. The machine is on IRLP if anyone wants to take a listen the node is 3364. Any input would be helpful. Jim K5VPW monitors the machine and runs the IRLP node so he may be listening and is willing to assist. Bill N5ZTW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Source.....
Don, My personal experience with Jeff DePolo (a member here on the list) has been very good. He built a duplexer/isolator system for me for a 900 repeater I put together about a year or so ago - and it was a VERY nice system. Prices very reasonable. So I would heartily recommend him. At least you will know the duplexer is tuned properly and working on-frequency when you receive it. (He even supplied me with analyzer plots showing rejection, insertion loss, etc.) My 2¢ worth... 73 de Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Don Spivey Can anyone point me toward a good source for a new vhf duplexer?? No doubt there are many dealers still around, but from personal experience is there one that stands out regarding price and service?? I've operated vhf repeaters for 30 years now, one of my first is still on the air, same repeater, still used daily. I have a prime location opening up and since it's on a public service tower, I need a good duplexer. I have at least 4 or 5 Sinclair and Wacom's setting around, but all show signs of lightning, missing silver plating, missing finger stock, etc. One of these would be fine with some TLC for a lower power neighborhood machine but not a repeater that is expected to be there for Emergency Management issues at maximum range. Thanks for any information provided.de...N5MZQ...Don..
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Thanks Bill - will most certainly do this! Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check the repeater-builder site for a mod to the station control module to make it DISABLE the transmitter and add a status LED as well. Bill - WA0CBW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Well, more progress... I couldn't sleep this morning and was up before the crack of dawn (in other words, about 4AM) so I decided to do more testing the station. I have discovered that in order to defeat any individual PL RX tones, I must have the tone switch OFF on the Four User Control Module *AND* the PL DISABLE switch active on the Station Control Module. Jumpers JU-5 through -8 are OUT on the Four User Control Module - these are for AND gating of PL with the concurrent use of a Single Tone Decoder Module, something I do not have. (If I understand the manual, all I need are JU-1 thru -4 for proper operation without the Single Tone Decoder Module. Manual reads: JU-1 through JU-4 provide operation without Single-Tone decoder.) Again, if I am understanding the manual, the station takes decode PL and retransmits it via the Master Decoder Module... The manual reads: Tone 'Private Line' signal from the receiver discriminator is applied to Station Control module Pin 21, amplified, and then routed to Master Decoder Pin 23. In the Master Decoder module, the tone signal is passed through a bandpass filter, buffer amplifier Q801, amplifier Q802, and level control R807 to the input side of U801C. This gate inhibits tone passage to the transmitter for retransmission until the gate is enabled as follows. The tone signal applied to the transmission gate is also applied to the same module's output Pin 7, and routed to the Four User Control module input Pin 3. Here, the tone activates an applicable 'Vibrasponder' resonant reed. Any activated reed causes Four User Control module Pin 24 to go low which is in turn applied back to the Master Decoder module at Pin 17. This low is inverted to a high by Q806 and applied to transmission gate U801C which then passes the tone signal waiting at the gate on to the transmitter for retransmission. A 150 millisecond drop-out delay network is included in the Master Decoder module which holds on the transmitter 150 milliseconds after loss of P-T-T during which time a 'reverse burst' 'Private Line' signal is transmitted which immediately squelches applicable receivers. This (Master Decoder / Four User Decoder interfaces) is where I think the PL encode problem lies, but I don't have an oscilloscope in order to test whether the PL signal is being fed through the circuitry properly. My problem is, the manual refers to a Master Decoder module that has two IC chips on the board - my module are older design and have no ICs. I'm thinking there should be a jumper either installed or removed, but no jumpers are called out on the cards I have so I have no way of telling if they are present or missing. (Funny - earlier I was complaining that I thought I had newer cards, now it is becoming apparent I have a mix of both. Go figure.) The LINE DISABLE still does not work as I expect (I want it so the station does not transmit on any input when enabled) but maybe that is a switch combination I haven't figured out yet, too... It seems that this Community Repeater works differently than the regular MICOR station, so I'm still feeling my way along with it. Thanks for all the help and support! Still chugging along... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Mark, Congratulations on your progress! However, I am curious about your comment that the repeater is not passing the PL tone through, On a community repeater, wouldn't you want the input tone filtered out of the audio chain and recreated fresh for transmission? Not all community repeaters use the same tone for encode as for decode. Some user radios may have less-than-pure tones, and may be over-deviated; it may not be prudent to allow such tones to pass through. Perhaps you need a Vibrasender reed installed for the encode function. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9wys Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 7:32 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis Well, Joe - I got it to work! What I ended up doing was chasing the audio path from the goes-inna through the backplane. I found that on the Squelch Gate card, it was not being passed, even though the jumper was in place. I added a hard-wire jumper to the backplane between Pins 11 and 24, and VOILA! The next thing I need to do is figure out why I cannot defeat PL operation... when I switch the Station Control to PL DISABLE, the station still transmits. In fact, it transmits even when the LINE DISABLE is switched on, too. More jumpers, I fear. Also, I find that it does not matter whether I have the individual PL tones enabled or disabled on the Four User Module - if I transmit the proper tone to the station, the repeater transmits. And it is not passing that PL tone to the output. (Which I want.) But at least I now have repeat audio. To answer your questions
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Well, changing out the backplane got the repeater working... along with double-checking the jumper settings one the cards. I did find a couple of jumpers that needed to come out on the Station Control card, and I'm sure that helped. The machine still does not pass audio, so now that it is working in the way it is supposed to be configured, next thing to do is chase down the audio path. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Mark, I think you have a good idea about starting fresh with an unaltered board. That would be my next move. It could not hurt to grab another set of cards also. These are old enough that I have found some bad caps and a bad transistor or two when going through my extra cards. What I will usually do is get a station working and then substitute boards and find out if they are good or bad. I have a box that the bad boards go into and then I fix them as time allows. You maybe fighting two or three different problems. You might also try a different audio/squelch board or two. I have had these cause goofy problems with cor/PL signals and repeat audio. This may not be your problem, but just gives you another place to look for missing signals. Joe - WA7JAW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Well, Joe - I got it to work! What I ended up doing was chasing the audio path from the goes-inna through the backplane. I found that on the Squelch Gate card, it was not being passed, even though the jumper was in place. I added a hard-wire jumper to the backplane between Pins 11 and 24, and VOILA! The next thing I need to do is figure out why I cannot defeat PL operation... when I switch the Station Control to PL DISABLE, the station still transmits. In fact, it transmits even when the LINE DISABLE is switched on, too. More jumpers, I fear. Also, I find that it does not matter whether I have the individual PL tones enabled or disabled on the Four User Module - if I transmit the proper tone to the station, the repeater transmits. And it is not passing that PL tone to the output. (Which I want.) But at least I now have repeat audio. To answer your questions, Joe: 1) Yes, I had a local speaker connected (through my R-1033 test set) and I could hear audio coming in through the receiver section. 2) I cannot get the station to operate in CSQ mode for now... 3) I'll have to look in regard to the AND squelch jumpers, but I followed the manual for correct jumper settings for each of the cards. 4) The repeater keys only in PL mode now... At this stage I'm not sure whether you're right or wrong, Joe. But at least it's alive - if only at 50%. ;-) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Mark, OK, now back to where we started from, but much better. I have a bunch of questions for you. 1. Do you have a local speaker hooked up? If so do you have audio out of the speaker in either carrier squelch or PL mode? 2. Do you have repeat audio in carrier squelch mode? I know you do not have repeat audio in PL mode. 3. Have the and squelch jumpers been cut on the audio/squelch card or are they still in place? 4. Does the repeater key up in either carrier squelch or PL mode, or in both modes? If I think I understand the problem correctly, the radio keys up and repeats in PL mode, it just does not pass repeat audio, but it works fine in carrier access or Pl disable mode. Please correct me if I am wrong here. 73, Joe - WA7JAW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Well, the MICOR Community Repeater manual supplement arrived today, and I've been going through it with the proverbial fine-toothed comb. I replaced most of the jumpers I originally removed from the backplane. (According to the jumper matrix in the CR manual, they needed to be IN whereas the regular repeater indicated they needed to be OUT.) I also went through the various cards necessary and checked jumper settings for those. This is where I ran into my next problem(s). First off, the repeater does NOT need a Line Driver card for Community Repeater operation. I does need: Time Out Timer Station Control Squelch Gate Master Decoder and 4-User Control modules. I went through the manual to set the jumpers as necessary, but ran into a snag with the Squelch Gate. Both manuals (Community Repeater and Control and Applications) identify the Squelch Gate card as TLN4662A. I have about a dozen SG cards and they're all TLN8772A, of various vintage. Parts are laid out differently than what is shown in the manuals, and I can't even find some of the jumpers referenced in the manuals on the cards. Specifically, I can't seem to find JU-12, JU-14 or JU-15... if they're on the card, they aren't very marked well. Anyway, I've actually take a step backward with this project, in that once I replaced the jumpers on the backplane, I lost repeater operation with the Line Driver card. (In a way, I kind of expected that, though.) I was able before to key the repeater with the proper input freq and PL, now I cannot. Also if I key the station with the PTT switch on the Station Control card, it does not drop when PTT is released. My first question is: Is there a different version of the Squelch Gate card that I need, or is the TLN8772A a direct replacement? If it is a direct replacement card, does anyone have the manual page(s) for this particular card so I can get the jumper settings and locations picked out? My thinking at the moment is that I still don't have the jumper configuration correct on the SG card... Next, the manual calls out yet a different part number for the backplane: TCN1211A. To reiterate, my backplane is a TRN6421A. I'm getting more confused as time goes on. If Motorola issued upgrades/revisions for the various control cards and the backplane, the documentation isn't contained in any of the manuals I have. My backplane is apparently properly labeled for card placement (according to the Community Repeater manual) but for whatever reason, I'm not making any progress.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Hi, Joe. Yep, unfortunately they reference the same modules in both manuals. And I am trying to configure the jumpers for a non-wireline RT station. I wonder if I may have screwed something up when I took most of the jumpers out of the backplane (all except JU-5) and them put them back. Since I have an ample supply of backplane boards (I have 14 of these chassis here) maybe I'll just swap out the backplane for one I haven't performed surgery on yet... That MAY eliminate some of the problems, since these stations were on the air previously. From there, I can start to work with the cards. I know that another local ham has yet another set of MICOR manuals - maybe his manuals reference my newer cards. If not, I'm not sure where I'll turn next. If anyone else here has a MICOR Community Repeater in operation, please give me a shout out!! I'd like to check jumper settings against what you have. I've got to be missing something somewhere. (Kevin, you still haven't commented yet...) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Mark, Sorry to hear you are still having problems. The Micor series of radios were made for many years and yes, there were several variations of most every module made. That is one of the reasons that there was a complete manual set delivered with each radio. Without a whole drawer full of manuals, these can be a beast to work on, especially when you are reassembling units from pieces of different radio combinations. I checked my community repeater manual and it does not cover the backplane board that you have either. I sometimes have to do what you are doing where you do not have a complete station to start with and it is not uncommon for us to have 4 or 5 manuals spread all over the bench to find info on all the different modules and boards we are working with. If the original customer was large enough, Motorola would supply a custom configuration made to their needs or specs along with a special set of manuals that only covered that configuration. Could be that you have stumbled across something like that also. If you leave the line driver card out, which is fine to do in your application, make sure you set the jumpers accordingly, to be a non-wireline repeater station. The jumper settings chart can be a little confusing, so make sure you are reading the proper lines on the chart. Does you control and applications manual and your community repeater manual have the same station control and squelch gate modules listed in them? Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, the MICOR Community Repeater manual supplement arrived today, and I've been going through it with the proverbial fine-toothed comb. I replaced most of the jumpers I originally removed from the backplane. (According to the jumper matrix in the CR manual, they needed to be IN whereas the regular repeater indicated they needed to be OUT.) I also went through the various cards necessary and checked jumper settings for those. This is where I ran into my next problem(s). First off, the repeater does NOT need a Line Driver card for Community Repeater operation. I does need: Time Out Timer Station Control Squelch Gate Master Decoder and 4-User Control modules. I went through the manual to set the jumpers as necessary, but ran into a snag with the Squelch Gate. Both manuals (Community Repeater and Control and Applications) identify the Squelch Gate card as TLN4662A. I have about a dozen SG cards and they're all TLN8772A, of various vintage. Parts are laid out differently than what is shown in the manuals, and I can't even find some of the jumpers referenced in the manuals on the cards. Specifically, I can't seem to find JU-12, JU-14 or JU-15... if they're on the card, they aren't very marked well. Anyway, I've actually take a step backward with this project, in that once I replaced the jumpers on the backplane, I lost repeater operation with the Line Driver card. (In a way, I kind of expected that, though.) I was able before to key the repeater with the proper input freq and PL, now I cannot. Also if I key the station with the PTT switch on the Station Control card, it does not drop when PTT is released. My first question is: Is there a different version of the Squelch Gate card that I need, or is the TLN8772A a direct replacement? If it is a direct replacement card, does anyone have the manual page(s) for this particular card so I can get the jumper settings and locations picked out? My thinking at the moment is that I still don't have the jumper configuration correct on the SG card... Next, the manual calls out yet a different part number for the backplane: TCN1211A. To reiterate, my backplane is a TRN6421A. I'm getting more confused as time goes on. If Motorola issued upgrades/revisions for the various control cards
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Hi, Jeff - and thanks for the quick reply. The number on the backplane does NOT match - but don't ask me what it is, because I'm at work and can't get to the station right now. I should be home by 3PM CDT, so I can post it then if necessary. I do know these were repeater station originally, not paging stations. So how do I go about getting the proper documentation? I'm pretty sure the manuals are all out of print by now... (I do have the orange book - Applications Manual, I think - as well as the manuals for both the low and high power stations.) However, the orange book does not show all the modules I have - I know it doesn't cover the 4-User Control Module, and maybe not the Master Decoder either... I have several versions of the Station Control, Squelch Gate and Time Out Timer modules - some schematics for the newer revisions are not shown in the manual either. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo I know these stations have jumpers all over the place - backplane, cards, etc. - that all needed to be configured properly for the thing to work the way it should. I have the manuals, but I am stumped. I know I'm missing something, SOMEWHERE - my problem is: WHAT and WHERE? Could be quite a few reasons why you don't have repeat audio. Start at the receiver and work your way forward, using the chart for the unified chassis and the module schematics in the orange book to help you follow the repeat audio path through the station. Besides, the manual's diagram for the backplane shows jumpers numbered in a certain sequence and the backplane I have has them numbered differently - they're in the same locations, but numbered differently. You sure you have a standard backplane? There were a number of varients, one of the more common being the backplanes that were used for Micor PURC (paging) stations. Check the part number stamped on the backplane board for the unified chassis and make sure it matches what you have documentation for. --- Jeff WN3A Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1575 - Release Date: 7/26/2008 4:18 PM
[Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
OK gang, I'm working on another project and have run into a wall. I have a UHF MICOR Unified chassis station that I am reassembling with the thought of putting it on GMRS once finished. Yes, this station was TOTALLY disassembled and scattered to the four winds - chassis, PA and some cards came from one place, more cards from another, yet more cards from yet another place, power supply and cabinet from yet another... I have the station reassembled to the point where it is operating in that it repeats (keys up on receipt of signal and PL) but it does not pass audio. And yes, I am resurrecting it on the freqs it was originally tuned before I make any changes. Right now it's on 462./467. and has one 4-User Control Module (PL decode) card in the chassis. No PL on TX yet... The station has the following cards in the chassis (listed from right to left): Line Driver Station Control Module Squelch Gate Time Out Timer Master Decoder 4-User Control Module Card Am I missing any other cards? I know these stations have jumpers all over the place - backplane, cards, etc. - that all needed to be configured properly for the thing to work the way it should. I have the manuals, but I am stumped. I know I'm missing something, SOMEWHERE - my problem is: WHAT and WHERE? Besides, the manual's diagram for the backplane shows jumpers numbered in a certain sequence and the backplane I have has them numbered differently - they're in the same locations, but numbered differently. (For example JU1 and JU3 are opposite when the manual is compared to the one I have in the shack.) I've also gone to the Repeater-Builder web site, but those pages seem to refer more to the conversion of the station or cards rather than making it work as designed. Maybe once I get it going, then I can think about conversion of the cards that Kevin referenced... Anyway - as far as the backplane goes, I think all jumpers except for JU5 should be OUT. Am I correct? (I currently do not plan on any remote control of the station, but later down the road maybe tone remote operation...) And what about the Line Driver, Squelch Gate and/or Station Control Module cards jumpers? Any ideas? (Kevin, you're the MICOR guru...) Thanks, Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
I was aware that there might be previous modifications. I have 14 of these chassis I picked up from the same source, so I have been comparing them as I go along to watch for issues like that. The only thing I have found so far is two or three of them were modified for connection to an external controller, like a Zetron panel. But I am not using one of those chassis (or at least I don't think). I had some issues with connections to the cards - some of the cards themselves had bad connector pin receptacles, and in other instances the pins on the backplane were bent - but I think I have all this resolved. I'll double check the card edges to make sure the pin seats are tight. I have an extender card to work with, too, so I think that'll help. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Com/Rad Inc Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis Hi Mark I have built a few of these from subs not necessarilloy from the same station - Not always a good idea. Sounds l ike you have everyting in the right place(s) -- With equipment this old you're up against (1) Possible modifciation from previous interventions (2) aging of edge connection and integrity. (3) ?? We have worked out issues with Mocor stations in recent times and I found that following the system diagram and the related card diags you can scope out the repeat audio at different poiints and shoul hav eminimal time wasted in locating where the problem is - from there you can swap cards ( if you have spares ) or do diags on the card. Check the condition of the back plane pins etc and jiggle the sta control module around along with the others. etc you may find an intermittent. - Original Message - From: n9wys mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 8:56 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis OK gang, I'm working on another project and have run into a wall. I have a UHF MICOR Unified chassis station that I am reassembling with the thought of putting it on GMRS once finished. Yes, this station was TOTALLY disassembled and scattered to the four winds - chassis, PA and some cards came from one place, more cards from another, yet more cards from yet another place, power supply and cabinet from yet another... I have the station reassembled to the point where it is operating in that it repeats (keys up on receipt of signal and PL) but it does not pass audio. And yes, I am resurrecting it on the freqs it was originally tuned before I make any changes. Right now it's on 462./467. and has one 4-User Control Module (PL decode) card in the chassis. No PL on TX yet... The station has the following cards in the chassis (listed from right to left): Line Driver Station Control Module Squelch Gate Time Out Timer Master Decoder 4-User Control Module Card Am I missing any other cards? I know these stations have jumpers all over the place - backplane, cards, etc. - that all needed to be configured properly for the thing to work the way it should. I have the manuals, but I am stumped. I know I'm missing something, SOMEWHERE - my problem is: WHAT and WHERE? Besides, the manual's diagram for the backplane shows jumpers numbered in a certain sequence and the backplane I have has them numbered differently - they're in the same locations, but numbered differently. (For example JU1 and JU3 are opposite when the manual is compared to the one I have in the shack.) I've also gone to the Repeater-Builder web site, but those pages seem to refer more to the conversion of the station or cards rather than making it work as designed. Maybe once I get it going, then I can think about conversion of the cards that Kevin referenced... Anyway - as far as the backplane goes, I think all jumpers except for JU5 should be OUT. Am I correct? (I currently do not plan on any remote control of the station, but later down the road maybe tone remote operation...) And what about the Line Driver, Squelch Gate and/or Station Control Module cards jumpers? Any ideas? (Kevin, you're the MICOR guru...) Thanks, Mark - N9WYS No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1575 - Release Date: 7/26/2008 4:18 PM image001.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Thanks Joe! Like I wrote earlier, it appears I'm going to have problems finding the Community Repeater supplement... If you can help me with that, I'd be much obliged! I actually have several 4-User Control cards and more tone reeds, so I could potentially have up to maybe 10 or 12 PL codes available. Not sure if I'm going to do that or not at this point (the main question would be why) but I need to use at least one of the 4-User cards, as that is all I have for PL decode/encode... (I see that I can disable the various tones via switches on the front of the card, but as it sits right now, I can only disable ONE of the tones - the others decode and the repeater keys whether the switch is on or off. I'll check for the other mods you speak of. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Mark, It sounds like you may be missing the modifications on the interconnect boards for and squelch. If the audio/squelch board has been modified for and squelch and the interconnct board changes have not been made, you will have repeat audio in PL Disable or carrier squelch mode and no repeat audio in PL Mode. Not sure if that is your problem, but it is one of the many things that will cause no repeat audio in the PL Enable Mode with a Micor station. I do not have my manuals in front of me, but this information is in the supplement for the station chassis that covers the backplane and the accessory cards. As was also suggested the Community Repeater manual will be your best friend, if you are going to be running the station in that configuration, as there are several differences between a standard repeater configuration and the community repeater configuration. If everything is properly configured the 4 user PL card should do both PL tone decode and encode. If you have trouble finding the information let em know and I can dig out my manual when I am in the shop tomorrow. Good luck with your project. Joe - WA7JAW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Thanks Gary. I did a search at Motorola parts for a manual starting with 68-81 and got over 2600 responses. Of course, the suffix of E25 was not included in any of the responses. The majority of the available manuals were for newer series Astro products. All of the responses I checked were for manuals with the number 68-81000XXX, where XXX is equal to the suffix. The closest I could find to what you referenced were suffixes B16, B50, B55, and B80. The only thing in the item description for any of these manuals was the word(s) Manual, Man or Manual Instruction. Wonderful... And to top it all off, they are all listed as follows: * Item has been cancelled. :-( Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Gary Glaenzer Mark; You need the supplemental manual that covers the community repeater..68-81XXXE25 is the number if memory serves The backplane for a CR was unique, as I recall, and trying to work on wone without the book is an experience in frustration As for your missing TX PL, you are missing a jumper; there was an option to cross-code PL's and a jumper had to be cut for that as I remeber it Gary
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Well, that got me 6 responses, but nothing like what I need. or maybe. The one that MIGHT be what I need reads: MAN INSTR FASC SUPPLEMENT It is item # 6881074C55 But I'm only guessing at this stage. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Gary Glaenzer I think the title said 'Instruction Manual-Supplemental' in smaller print 'For use with Manual 68-xx' - Original Message - From: n9wys Thanks Gary. I did a search at Motorola parts for a manual starting with 68-81 and got over 2600 responses. Of course, the suffix of E25 was not included in any of the responses. The majority of the available manuals were for newer series Astro products. All of the responses I checked were for manuals with the number 68-81000XXX, where XXX is equal to the suffix. The closest I could find to what you referenced were suffixes B16, B50, B55, and B80. The only thing in the item description for any of these manuals was the word(s) Manual, Man or Manual Instruction. Wonderful... And to top it all off, they are all listed as follows: * Item has been cancelled. :-( Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Gary Glaenzer Mark; You need the supplemental manual that covers the community repeater..68-81XXXE25 is the number if memory serves The backplane for a CR was unique, as I recall, and trying to work on wone without the book is an experience in frustration As for your missing TX PL, you are missing a jumper; there was an option to cross-code PL's and a jumper had to be cut for that as I remeber it Gary
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Thanks, Eric. I'm not sure whether I need the Community Repeater supplement to configure it to work with the 4-User Control card... In any event, I just found one at everyone's favorite auction site, so I picked it up. If I don't need it, I can add it to my library for future reference. I believe I have the other two manuals at home, but I'll double check the numbers when I get home this afternoon. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Mark, If you're not going to use your repeater as a community repeater, then you don't need the community repeater supplement. There are two Motorola manuals that you do need: 6881025E50 UHF Station Instruction manual, NLA 6881025E60 Control Applications Supplement, NLA Since both of these important documents are now cancelled and NLA from Motorola Parts, they are in the queue to be scanned. Once you have the manuals in hand, you can re-configure the jumpers to restore standalone repeater operation. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
OK - I'm now home from work and have had an opportunity to look at the station. The backplane has the following number printed on it: TRN6421A Motorola parts identifies it as: BD INTCONN --- *This item has been cancelled This is all I can seem to find about it right now... And Eric, these are the manuals I currently have: Control and Applications Manuals: 68P81025E60-E and 68P81025E60-F MICOR Base and Repeater Stations Manuals: 68P81025E50-G (12W to 75W stations) and 68P81039E55-A (200W and 225W stations) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Before cutting any traces, perhaps it would be a good idea to identify which backplane Mark has. If the jumpers are numbered differently than on the common TLN5644A backplane, it's probably wired quite differently. Since Mark described his repeater as being cobbled together from different machines, there may be some incompatibilities to consider. The Micor CA manual 6881025E60 assumes that the TLN5644A backplane is installed. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ac6vj Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 12:43 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis Hi Mark: Pull the exciter board out and measure the resistance between pins one and five on the transmitter interconnect board. There should be infinite resistance between the two pins. If there is continuity between pins one and five on the transmitter interconnect board, cut the trace on the exciter board leading to pin five P902, see note 409 on the Exciter/1ST Bandpass Filter schematic pullout in the Micor Base and Repeater Station Manual 68P81025E60. Gregory AC6VJ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
I looked at 7 of the 14 chassis I have; the ones I looked at were *all* TRN6421 - including those with what appeared to be the Zetron interface wiring. The labeling for the card cage is as follows (again, listed from right to left): TOT STN CONT SQUELCH GATE SINGLE TONE DECODER MASTER DECODER FOUR USER CONTORL MODULE \ FOUR USER CONTORL MODULE \ FOUR USER CONTORL MODULE Yes, 4 slots labeled the same FOUR USER CONTORL MODULE / DIODE LOGIC MULTI PL ENCODER MULTI DLP ENCODER Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:37 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF MICOR Unified Chassis Mark, I agree with Eric, you are aways away from cutting and hacking on traces until we can identify exactly which backplane board you are working with. Most of the time that I have seen the TRN prefix, it usually has been tied to the PURC series of radios. Are all of your backplane boards that you have, this same model number? On the backplane board what are the cards slots labeled as? Knowing this information may help identify what the original station service type was. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK - I'm now home from work and have had an opportunity to look at the station. The backplane has the following number printed on it: TRN6421A Motorola parts identifies it as: BD INTCONN --- *This item has been cancelled This is all I can seem to find about it right now... And Eric, these are the manuals I currently have: Control and Applications Manuals: 68P81025E60-E and 68P81025E60-F MICOR Base and Repeater Stations Manuals: 68P81025E50-G (12W to 75W stations) and 68P81039E55-A (200W and 225W stations) Mark - N9WYS Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1576 - Release Date: 7/27/2008 4:16 PM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MICOR Unified Chassis
Joe and Eric, OK, many thanks. I bought that manual earlier today from an eBay seller for $14 -- MANUAL #68P81025E55-B. (Eric, I see the reference you sent wants $20 and it's an older manual to boot.) The seller said it will be shipped first thing tomorrow, so I guess now I just sit and wait. Hopefully when it gets here I'll have one of those Ah-HAH! moments... ;-) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Mark, I think Eric is correct in that you have got a community repeater chassis. These can be a handful to get properly jumpered and configured. If you can not find a TLN5644A backplane board, this will be a little more of a challenge. I think you are in a holding pattern here until your community repeater manual shows up. (I think I remember you saying you had one coming.) Then it will all become clear as mud and the pieces will start falling into place for you. I will go through my manuals tomorrow and verify what Eric and I are thinking. 73, Joe - WA7JAW From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Mark, I did a little research on the 3rd Street site, and I am convinced that you have a community repeater. The manual you need is 6881025E55, which supplements the 6881025E50 manual that you already have, for the basic station. It is NLA from Motorola Parts, but one is available on eBay as Item Number 260214404023. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Frequency pair
And a Business Band license fee is $105 for a 10-year license - not including the coordinator's fees. http://mymotorolaradio.com/fcc.asp Mark - N9WYS / WQIV271 -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of wd8chl George Henry wrote: There ARE frequency coordinators for commercial pairs, as well... a list is on the FCC website at http://www.fcc.gov/pshs/public-safety-spectrum/coord.html. It appears that the filing fee for a new land mobile license below 470 MHz is $60.00, according to the fee schedule I drilled down to. George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 Now exactly what kind of coordination/service they are eligible for is another question...since they are not a government entity, they may not be eligible under any of those services...maybe...
RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Harmoinic products
The only fly in the ointment is moving the RX. We don’t know WHERE this noise is coming from... so if he moves, he may move CLOSER to rather than further away from the source... I think a 904 notch on the RX may be a workable solution. Thanks, Ron. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Ron Wright Mark, At say 140 MHz 1.4 MHz is a long way, but at 900 it is 1/6th the distance. RF works in percentages. So the wide TX is really very close to your receive. The TX being 100 kHz wide might mean it is digital and this can be very wide with lots of signal MHz, but down 80 db, from its center freq. However, still this low level being so close could cause you problems. If a problem of overload then a cavity on your receiver would help and might solve your problem. It would give you protection from the stron 904 tx power. Also a cavity with a notch at the 904 TX freq might help doing the same. However, if this is from the 904 wideband noise then this means its wide band noise is on your receiver frequency. The solution is a notch cavity on the 904 TX itself which you might not have the previdledge of doing. They might not let you touch their equipment. In this case the solution would be distance and seperation you from him. Also moving the rcv freq as far as you can might solve this problem. Too bad you could not turn off the 904 tx for short period of time to see if this is the problem, but since very close in freq I would suspect it. However, they may be perfectly legal, just physics of radio. I've known of users at a site go around and just start unplugging others systems to see if they caused a problem. Some of these people are not longer allowed on the site. 73, ron, n9ee/r
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Harmoinic products
Hi Ron, and thanks for the reply. First off, the 904 signal is always there - and about 100kHz wide... A WIDE signal. Second, his machine is on 927.600/902.600. As you can see, the signal is 2 MHz up and still clobbering his receiver. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Ron Wright Mark, Usually desense is not harmonic or intermod related. It is caused by wide band noise from a transmitter. For harmonic it is just 2,3,4, etc times a frequency. For intermod it is nF1 +/- mF2 = your receive freq. In either case the problem will be there only when the offending txs are keyed up. Is the 904 tx keyed all the time? If not then you can determine if coming from it. Listen when it is unkeyed for the problem. If it is keyed all the time then I would put your friends tx on a dummy load with the remaining parts of the repeater, duplexer antenna receiver, connected. This can aid in determining if your tx is part of the problem. What are the freqs of your friends repeater? 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Mark OK, it’s been a while since I’ve had to compute this, so if my question seems a bit “trivial” or elementary in nature I apologize in advance. Yes, my math is rusty. ;-) Having said that, I’m trying to assist another ham with a desense problem he is experiencing on his 900 MHz ham-band repeater. He is experiencing about 10dB of receiver desense because of a signal centered at 904 MHz. He tells me this is verified with a Spectrum Analyzer and it is about 100 kHz wide... I take him at his word. The site he is at has no other 900 MHz at all, but it is a commercial site with other “stuff”, including various government and commercial frequencies, in use. What I am trying to do is see if we can figure out whether this might be a spur, or maybe some harmonic, that is being generated as the result of a mix of other products there. Can anyone provide me with the math necessary to try to determine whether this is a harmonic, using very rudimentary figures? (For example, I want to be able to use basic freqs like 150 MHz, 450 MHz, etc, to at least get us in the ball park.) Once we get close, then we can fine-tune the freq combinations to see if it is a mix product. Or if anyone has any ideas, I’m certainly open to suggestions. Thanks, Mark – N9WYS Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Tool needed for removing Potentiometer nuts
Tom, I went to a hardware store and bought a deep-reach socket, then ground down the one end until I had a tool to remove the nut. The socket cost me about $1 - you don't need Craftsman or anything high-price for this. Just make sure the socket outside diameter is close to the size of the nut you're trying to remove. Did the same for an oil pump drive when I rebuilt the engine in my car a few years ago. to prime the oiling system. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Thomas Oliver I have a yaesu FT-60 handheld that has a noisy volume pot and need to change it, the nuts have slots on the top side of the nut 180 degrees apart and I can not get needle nose pliers on them so I need the correct tool. Anybody know what they are called and where to get one? tom n8ies No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1544 - Release Date: 7/10/2008 7:37 AM image001.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] New Repeater Desense Problems
John, In the cases I have seen, an Iso-Tee is constructed by removing the center pin in the offset side of a UHF T connector, grinding it down until it is flat with the insulator surface (add a notch so you can re-insert with a screwdriver) and reinsert the pin into the connector. This provides for an indirect connection for testing purposes. The link below describes the theory/practice behind its design and use, although the author uses an insulator sleeve around the center pin of his connector rather than the design I am familiar with. http://www.conknet.com/~b_mobile/NoiseStuff.html This article describes the design I am familiar with: http://mrtmag.com/mag/radio_rf_samplers_directional/ If you have a Bird wattmeter, you can construct one for use with your meter: http://www.repeater-builder.com/projects/bird43sampler.html Hope this helps! Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/09 Wed AM 10:06:35 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Repeater Desense Problems So, please, someone tell me, what is an iso tee/sampler slug? How is the equipmenthooked up for the desense test? John
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Repeater Desense Problems
Don, that only works if he owns a Bird 43 or similar meter. ;-) He can also construct one of his own from a UHF T connector. Now, a question of my own. Kevin (or anyone else) will this also work with a Bird 4410 (multi-range) meter?? If so, I'll build one at my next convenience! Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of de W5DK Using a Mike quote doesn't anybody read the site?!!! http://www.repeater-builder.com/projects/bird43sampler.html sorry John could resist J and Ron's description / answer was correct. 73 Don W5DK From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of John Transue So, please, someone tell me, what is an iso tee/sampler slug? How is the equipment hooked up for the desense test? John
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSR 2000
Dave, I have not had as satisfying an experience with MSR2000 machines as others here on the list... Mine was a 460 MHz unit tuned down to 444 MHz, and the receiver was nearly deaf - even after being tuned up several times by a Motorola service shop tech. (0.9 µv sensitivity) Another recurring problem I had was with the PA - it kept burning up the harmonic filter. And when the PA went out, it had to go back to Motorola for repair - mainly because the harmonic filter is constructed on a ceramic substrate and I (nor anyone else I could contact) had the proper tools to repair it without cracking and ruining the ceramic. I assume they used silver solder to make the connections but I can only wonder, given the same failure repeatedly. (Yep, I know all about assuming...) I ended up taking the MSR2000 out of service and replacing it with a Kenwood TKR-820 for the transmitter and Micor receivers/SpectraTAC voter network. That repeater works like a champ! Now on the other hand, I'm running an MSF5000 on 900 MHz and *it's* working like a trooper!! Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: N0ATH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/08 Tue PM 03:48:35 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSR 2000 Hello Gentlemen; I recently acquired a pair of MSR 2000 100 watt repeaters that are on 160 mhz. I am not very well acquainted with the Motorola gear although everyone assures me they are far superior to the Mastr II gear I am presently using - My question is, can the 160 mhz units be moved to 146 with out a lot of trouble or at all? These are operational units, one is new and one used - If they cannot handily be moved to the amateur freq then are they of very much value or I guess I should ask, is there any demand for them? Thanks / NØATH Dave
RE: [Repeater-Builder] TKR 820
Replied off-list Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n9ex_jack Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 6:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] TKR 820 Hi Guys does anyone out there happen to have a pinout on the accesory connecter on the back of the machine N9ex Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.135 / Virus Database: 270.4.4/1532 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 8:32 AM
